Shooting hours ethics.

[scout/sniper]

You my friend are screwed.

What does your GPS suggest? 

It says to read the damned regs.

Scout - what do the regs say are the legal big game shooting hours on February 28?

I see.
I suppose the 1/2 hour before and after is all you could go by.
Again, interpretation by whoever is watching, why is it never clear?

[scout/sniper]

This morning the jackholes that set up 40yds away from me started blasting away 15 minutes early. We exchanged "pleasantries" and I made it my mission to call every flock of ducks away from them. Normally I would stop calling and let others have some fun. Not today, I called hard and loud and took them all.

They packed up at 0800
It isn't that hard to play by the rules.

[Bob33]

Since inquiring minds want to know...I checked sunset times on my GPS for each of the four corners of Eastern and Western Washington for today.  Add 30 minutes to each time, and then compare them to the published "legal" shooting end time for today.

For example: in the northeastern corner of Eastern Washington the actual sunset today is 3:57 p.m. Add 30 minutes to that and you get 4:27 p.m. The published legal ending time is 4:45 p.m. so you would be safe.

However, if you are hunting in the southwestern corner of Eastern Washington, the actual sunset is 4:28 p.m. Add 30 minutes to that are you're 13 minutes past the end of the published legal shooting time.

Interesting.

[scout/sniper]

In the example you gave me, your gps will have to do.
If the time and date is printed in the regs, that's the law regardless of what the gps says. 

[ucwarden]

This kind of interesting, as there has always been a lot of discussion about the ridiculous hunting times.
The law (WAC - Washington Administrative Code) states:

"WAC 232-12-288
Official hunting hours for game animals and forest grouse.
(1) The following tables show the lawful hunting hours (1/2 hour before sunrise to 1/2 hour after sunset) for game animals and forest grouse (ruffed, blue, spruce) during established seasons."

Now that being said, the question is can hunters hunt by the 1/2 hour rule, when the pamphlet times are different (since we know those times don't cover 1/2 hour to 1/2 hour all across 1/2 the state)?

I would say (based on only my opinion) that the answer is no, because the law then goes on to list the times for us, so we have to go by the pamphlet times.

I guess the only way to change the law would be to make it so it would read simply; "1/2 hour before sunrise to 1/2 hour after sunset, or the following listed time, whichever gives the hunter more hunting time."  But that gets to be a real pain, but may be worth it.

Thoughts? 
 

[scout/sniper]

Thanks UC,
If you were considering citing someone for shooting outside the posted times but according to their GPS data they would be legal, how would you handle it?

[Curly]

I really think that WAC should be changed.  The wording is wrong.  How can they have that wording in parenthesis about 1/2 before sunrise to 1/2 hour after sunset when they then have the table which shows times that are not 30 minutes before and 30 minutes after.  They should either get rid of the wording about 1/2 hr before and after sunrise and sunset or get rid of the table.  They really shouldn't have both.  (Or they could say "approximately" in front of the wording about sunrise and sunset.)  But then, as Bob33 points out, when a guy is hunting during a time when the table doesn't cover that date, what is a guy to do?

It is pretty easy these days with all the electronics that people have to determine sunrise and sunset times.  In some instances it is probably going to be safer going by the GPS time than by the published times in the tables, so I would think it would be something that WDFW could at least think about for safety sake. 

(Obviously people still need to lookup specific hunting hour rules for various species, but when it comes to sunrise/sunset times, I think there should be alternate ways than going by the weekly tables in the regs.)   

[bobcat]

I can also get sunrise and sunset times from my iPhone.

[Bob33]

Actual sunset times can vary by up to 30 minutes in different parts of the same half state (eastern on western Washington.) Add in more variation over a 7 day period and the difference in light conditions can be enormous when using a single time.

[sakoshooter]

I never go by the times listed in the pamphlet. It's much more accurate to go by the sunrise/sunset times on my GPS.

Just curious bobcat, if you showed that to a leo would he/she accept it as legal?
I would think it is much more accurate.

Yes I would think so. Legal hunting hours are based on sunrise and sunset. The GPS gives you accurate sunrise and sunset times for your precise location. It's not an approximation like the times listed in the pamphlet.

The "LEGAL'' shooting hours are published in the regs. Black and White. Is this really a debateable subject?
If we were to hunt according to sunrise/sunset - that's what the regs would say.  But it doesn't and we aren't. We're supposed to hunt according to the "EXACT" times published in the regs. Anyone on here not fully understand it?

[bobcat]

I'm not debating this. All I'm saying is I use the actual sunrise and sunset times for my precise location. While I may not be using the "official" hunting hours as published by the WDFW, I feel I am following the intent of the law, which is that hunting hours are to be a half hour before sunrise and a half hour after sunset.

[lokidog]

Back in the day (not sure how it is now) WI had a time listed for open and close and then it had + or minus minutes to that depending what east/west zone you were in relating to the base time.  Makes more sense than one size fits all, especially in a state as wide as WA.

This is neither here nor there though, legally, as it is posted in the regs.       

[ucwarden]

Thanks UC,
If you were considering citing someone for shooting outside the posted times but according to their GPS data they would be legal, how would you handle it?

Once again, I am not an attorney, but there is a law which states that when two laws conflict, you must go with the law which benefits the suspect.  With all that in-mind, I personally would never get down to splitting hairs with someone over a couple of minutes, so I would let it go.
But, that's me, I am not speaking for other (more black a white) officers.

[ucwarden]

I never go by the times listed in the pamphlet. It's much more accurate to go by the sunrise/sunset times on my GPS.

Just curious bobcat, if you showed that to a leo would he/she accept it as legal?
I would think it is much more accurate.

Yes I would think so. Legal hunting hours are based on sunrise and sunset. The GPS gives you accurate sunrise and sunset times for your precise location. It's not an approximation like the times listed in the pamphlet.

The "LEGAL'' shooting hours are published in the regs. Black and White. Is this really a debateable subject?
If we were to hunt according to sunrise/sunset - that's what the regs would say.  But it doesn't and we aren't. We're supposed to hunt according to the "EXACT" times published in the regs. Anyone on here not fully understand it?

I believe everyone is on the same page...that's what the law says (during those periods when they list the times), but I believe he debate is on whether that is the best way for the regs to read.

[Bob33]

Back in the day (not sure how it is now) WI had a time listed for open and close and then it had + or minus minutes to that depending what east/west zone you were in relating to the base time.  Makes more sense than one size fits all, especially in a state as wide as WA.

This is neither here nor there though, legally, as it is posted in the regs.       

Times in Washington are split eastern/western but that still is too broad.