Post by: D-Rock425 on December 27, 2013, 10:08:31 AM
Post by: huntnphool on December 27, 2013, 10:14:00 AM
My dad will have 11 quality bull point in the 2014 season. With the archery dates being a little messed up for 2014 what should I put him in for (eastside). I was thinking with 11 points he may want to hold out and try for a really really good tag. Maybe colockum or in the blues :dunno:With 11 points I would plan on asking the same question with 12. :sry:
Post by: Jonathan_S on December 27, 2013, 10:15:54 AM
Post by: benhuntin on December 27, 2013, 10:18:55 AM
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Post by: vandeman17 on December 27, 2013, 10:21:06 AM
I'm not sure. I've always picked the places I wanted to hunt the most in order or #1-4, I guess my point total has never changed that.
I am in the belief that you might as well put in for the hunt you really want no matter how many points you have. Everyone has a chance to draw, even if you only have one point. Once you get to that 6-7 point range, I think I would be a little mad to burn them on a secondary hunt. I would rather just go for broke.
I should mention that I am the KING of bad luck so I don't expect to draw anything, ever!
Post by: D-Rock425 on December 27, 2013, 10:21:39 AM
Post by: vandeman17 on December 27, 2013, 10:25:04 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on December 27, 2013, 10:25:13 AM
Post by: idahohuntr on December 27, 2013, 10:26:57 AM
With 11 points I would plan on asking the same question with 12. :sry::yeah: I would not consider 11 points any kind of sure thing for a really good archery tag...probably a 96-99% chance you will not get a blues or colockum elk tag looking at the odds.
The "average" points reported by WDFW in the regs is a seriously flawed number that should borderline be investigated for false advertising! It would be like the Powerball reporting that jackpot winners in 2013 purchased an average of 42 tickets before winning.
Post by: krapmit on December 27, 2013, 10:27:43 AM
I'm sure others will disagree, but as far as my friends and family hunting quality bull hunts, it seems like the bulls have been much for responsive and stupid horny the first week of October.
It's too bad archery season doesn't go til Oct 1st like it used to.
Post by: vandeman17 on December 27, 2013, 10:28:38 AM
Colockum average was 8 last year for archery.
how many overall tags was that? There could have been one person that drew with like 4 points and can totally skew the numbers. I never looked at the average points to draw anyway. I really don't think it tells you anything and can actually mislead people like idaho said.
Post by: vandeman17 on December 27, 2013, 10:30:18 AM
Shouldn't you be able to use your points with any weapon? I know you guys bow hunt, but It seems like, as far as the east side of the state, over the last 5-6 years the muzzle loader guys are getting the prime rutt..
I'm sure others will disagree, but as far as my friends and family hunting quality bull hunts, it seems like the bulls have been much for responsive and stupid horny the first week of October.
It's too bad archery season doesn't go til Oct 1st like it used to.
The problem with this is that unless you draw and buy the elk multi tag then he would be stuck hunting muzzy if he didn't draw a special permit. That is why I always put archery is because when I don't draw then I can still hunt my normal seasons.
Post by: D-Rock425 on December 27, 2013, 10:34:43 AM
Post by: MtnMuley on December 27, 2013, 10:35:33 AM
Post by: huntnphool on December 27, 2013, 10:49:48 AM
LOLKnew that was coming next. :chuckle:
Post by: jstone on December 27, 2013, 11:05:30 AM
Post by: Elkrunner on December 27, 2013, 11:05:43 AM
Post by: idahohuntr on December 27, 2013, 11:12:55 AM
Post by: huntnphool on December 27, 2013, 11:16:12 AM
Go with what you know...it will be a lot better when you draw.:yeah: Don't rely on huntwa to get you a 400" bull out of the blues, this years Entiat thread should have shown you that the book animals are not tied to the trees. ;)
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on December 27, 2013, 11:21:42 AM
Post by: bobcat on December 27, 2013, 11:21:56 AM
As for the the average points listed for people who drew permits- it's not "flawed" nor is it "false advertising." I agree the number is virtually meaningless for determining odds of drawing.
Post by: Woodchuck on December 27, 2013, 11:23:36 AM
You can't draw if you don't put in. And it only takes one to draw. More facts: There's no elk in the blues and only bigfoots. This only leaves about a small part of the Cascades to hunt? Good luck!!!!! :tup: :chuckle::yeah: Well said. Good luck on your quest. :tup:
Post by: D-Rock425 on December 27, 2013, 11:50:43 AM
Post by: 6x6in6 on December 27, 2013, 11:54:22 AM
I only asked because I'm a newbie to elk hunting bulls.:chuckle:
Post by: coachcw on December 27, 2013, 11:59:24 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on December 27, 2013, 11:59:49 AM
Post by: Bob33 on December 27, 2013, 12:00:03 PM
Quote
It depends on how old your dad is and how long he wants to wait. I'd go for one of the Yakima units that are relatively easy to draw.The data is accurate but easily misinterpreted and essentially meaningless.
As for the the average points listed for people who drew permits- it's not "flawed" nor is it "false advertising." I agree the number is virtually meaningless for determining odds of drawing.
Assume there are 1000 applicants for five elk permits. Each of the applicants has 10 points. The average points for those drawn will be 10 points. However, the odds of any of the 1000 drawing is about .5%, or one in 200. You could have 20 points and your odds of drawing would still be very small.
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on December 27, 2013, 12:25:07 PM
Quote
It's too bad archery season doesn't go til Oct 1st like it used to.I don't think we ever had the last week of Sept., it used to OPEN on the first of Oct...
But to answer your question, when I hunted EA, I drew Observatory twice with 6 points each time,, Good unit, plenty of bulls.. :twocents:
Post by: D-Rock425 on December 27, 2013, 12:32:36 PM
Post by: Elkrunner on December 27, 2013, 12:57:48 PM
Post by: Fullabull on December 27, 2013, 01:31:58 PM
Post by: D-Rock425 on December 27, 2013, 01:34:36 PM
Post by: Jonathan_S on December 27, 2013, 01:37:54 PM
If your dad can wait another year, 2015 will have better dates in September to hunt archery.
I know I could hunt and peck the dfw site for it but does anyone know the 2015 archery elk dates (early)
Bobcat? :chuckle:
Post by: bobcat on December 27, 2013, 01:45:00 PM
Post by: D-Rock425 on December 27, 2013, 01:45:59 PM
Post by: Jonathan_S on December 27, 2013, 01:47:14 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on December 27, 2013, 04:09:20 PM
I disagree because it has people falsely believing that if they have more than the average number of points they are "due" to draw. More informed folks, like many on this site, are well aware of the intricacies of the points system and odds etc...but to the majority of hunters reporting this avg points is very misleading. They should just report the number of applicants per hunt in the prior year and leave it at that. I personally talk to dozens of guys every year that are astounded at how they can't draw a blues tag with their 17 points when the "average" is 9 or 11 or whatever. This definitely fits the bill of "lies, dam lies, and statistics".
As for the the average points listed for people who drew permits- it's not "flawed" nor is it "false advertising."
Post by: bullcanyon on December 27, 2013, 04:36:04 PM
Post by: bobcat on December 27, 2013, 04:44:03 PM
:dunno:
Post by: idahohuntr on December 27, 2013, 04:55:24 PM
Post by: Todd_ID on December 27, 2013, 05:07:14 PM
I agree...and If we limited applicants to only those with half a brain... :chuckle: :chuckle:Let's vote in a quiz you have to pass about how the points system works before you can apply. We'd have leftover Blues tags. :chuckle:
Post by: Bob33 on December 27, 2013, 05:21:31 PM
All advertising is intended to portray a product in a positive light, vis-à-vis competing products.I disagree because it has people falsely believing that if they have more than the average number of points they are "due" to draw. More informed folks, like many on this site, are well aware of the intricacies of the points system and odds etc...but to the majority of hunters reporting this avg points is very misleading. They should just report the number of applicants per hunt in the prior year and leave it at that. I personally talk to dozens of guys every year that are astounded at how they can't draw a blues tag with their 17 points when the "average" is 9 or 11 or whatever. This definitely fits the bill of "lies, dam lies, and statistics".
As for the the average points listed for people who drew permits- it's not "flawed" nor is it "false advertising."
Who has the best network: ATT or Verizon? They both claim to.
Who has the best light-duty truck? Chevy, Ford, and Dodge all claim to.
Which insurance company is best: Progressive, Geiko, State Farm, Farmers,....? They all claim to.
There are lots of members on here who read, every year, about how the draw system works and yet they continue to hold to false premises about their odds.
Post by: Bofire on December 27, 2013, 05:51:11 PM
Do I get half a brain? :chuckle:
Carl
Post by: lewy on December 27, 2013, 06:00:55 PM
Post by: danderson on December 27, 2013, 06:20:27 PM
Post by: jrod on December 28, 2013, 05:38:24 PM
Post by: rtspring on December 28, 2013, 05:39:21 PM
Post by: D-Rock425 on December 28, 2013, 05:42:24 PM
Good luck bud!!! 11points couldn't get ya a gallon of gas in eastern Washington!!! Why don't you just stick to hunting that c-post place you always talk about!!!! :twocents:to easy there we need a challenge.
Post by: D-Rock425 on December 28, 2013, 05:44:34 PM
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on December 28, 2013, 06:49:01 PM
My disclaimer, I have never put in for eastside. But If I had to put in today I would pick between, dayton, tuccanon, and west wena. None of the eastside units offer what I consider a true "quality" hunt season date and length wise. But from my research these units offer an above average chance at a real nice bull, with the possibility of a true whopper. I
Post by: wog on December 29, 2013, 09:16:06 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on December 29, 2013, 04:58:21 PM
Post by: dscubame on December 29, 2013, 05:46:59 PM
:chuckle: 2 pages worth of responses and what maybe 2 answers? :dunno: What would I do with that many points? Toutle tag :chuckle: JK..... Seeing your posts etc.... It would appear applying for an unfamiliar area doesnt worry you guys because you know elk, and elk country and will put in the time.
My disclaimer, I have never put in for eastside. But If I had to put in today I would pick between, dayton, tuccanon, and west wena. None of the eastside units offer what I consider a true "quality" hunt season date and length wise. But from my research these units offer an above average chance at a real nice bull, with the possibility of a true whopper. I
Finally a answer without all the half brain responses.
Post by: steelnducks on December 29, 2013, 07:10:10 PM
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on December 29, 2013, 07:29:58 PM
Go with the unit you know best. Anyone can make a great hunt out of most east side units with the right knowledge.
I agree with what your saying. However, I feel that alot depends on what you are looking for in a hunt. Im under the impression (and could be wrong) the OP is very familar with some eastside units, but is looking to branch out. Maybe different terrain, better season, better bulls or just a different experience. Being very familiar with a unit is always a good thing, but if you know what the unit holds and the quality isnt there, no sense burning precious points.
Post by: haus on December 29, 2013, 07:51:48 PM
My dad will have 11 quality bull point in the 2014 season. With the archery dates being a little messed up for 2014 what should I put him in for (eastside). I was thinking with 11 points he may want to hold out and try for a really really good tag. Maybe colockum or in the blues :dunno:Can't go wrong with "most" of the branch bull tags really. Comes down more to finding the area/terrain that best suits your hunting style and the amount of time you have available to scout and hunt the area. I'd imagine the closer to home the better unless you've an unlimited amount of time available....rich...no job/retired.... :bow:
Post by: adamR on December 29, 2013, 08:15:04 PM
Go with the unit you know best. Anyone can make a great hunt out of most east side units with the right knowledge.
I agree with what your saying. However, I feel that alot depends on what you are looking for in a hunt. Im under the impression (and could be wrong) the OP is very familar with some eastside units, but is looking to branch out. Maybe different terrain, better season, better bulls or just a different experience. Being very familiar with a unit is always a good thing, but if you know what the unit holds and the quality isnt there, no sense burning precious points.
He knows the Nile and the Nile certainly holds quality animals and has quality opportunities.
Personally I'd put in for the Goose Prairie or Peaches, both have quality animals, a big big area to hunt, and not all the ridiculous hype like the Blues... If you are looking for less people than I would put in for Bethel or Observatory and hunt Umtanum.
Post by: furbearer365 on December 29, 2013, 08:43:19 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on December 29, 2013, 08:48:56 PM
Post by: Crunchy on December 29, 2013, 08:49:23 PM
It is such a ridiculous question unless you are just making small talk. It seems as though you haven't a clue what to put in for and are waiting for someone to give you the right answer to the test. If everyone on here said PEACHES all at the same time, would you really tell your dad to only put in for PEACHES? Why not do homework and find the unit that best fits your ability and the quality of bull you want and go for it. Honestly, you don't have any better of a chance of drawing than the next guy and if you want to hunt a sought after unit then just be patient and put in until you draw. If you want to just spend your points and don't care what unit, do the math and put in for the one that gives you the best odds. Question answered.
Somebody got a chunk or coal for xmas or favorite football team lost today.
Post by: bobcat on December 29, 2013, 10:03:45 PM
Somebody got a chunk or coal for xmas or favorite football team lost today.
:chuckle: Nice way of putting it.
Actually I think it's a great question. I've got 9 quality elk points and I don't know what I want to do with them either. :dunno:
Post by: Pathfinder101 on December 29, 2013, 10:20:34 PM
Post by: dscubame on December 30, 2013, 07:57:55 AM
It is such a ridiculous question unless you are just making small talk. It seems as though you haven't a clue what to put in for and are waiting for someone to give you the right answer to the test. If everyone on here said PEACHES all at the same time, would you really tell your dad to only put in for PEACHES? Why not do homework and find the unit that best fits your ability and the quality of bull you want and go for it. Honestly, you don't have any better of a chance of drawing than the next guy and if you want to hunt a sought after unit then just be patient and put in until you draw. If you want to just spend your points and don't care what unit, do the math and put in for the one that gives you the best odds. Question answered.
He is doing his homework part of which involves posting the question on this forum, where better? Jerk
Post by: D-Rock425 on December 30, 2013, 09:23:47 AM
It is such a ridiculous question unless you are just making small talk. It seems as though you haven't a clue what to put in for and are waiting for someone to give you the right answer to the test. If everyone on here said PEACHES all at the same time, would you really tell your dad to only put in for PEACHES? Why not do homework and find the unit that best fits your ability and the quality of bull you want and go for it. Honestly, you don't have any better of a chance of drawing than the next guy and if you want to hunt a sought after unit then just be patient and put in until you draw. If you want to just spend your points and don't care what unit, do the math and put in for the one that gives you the best odds. Question answered.you're right I haven't a clue :chuckle:. I have a few ideas on where to put in I've killed 1 or 2 elk in my day. I was just looking for some input on what people thought would be the best draw tagto try for. Never said he would draw but with 11 points you might just want to keep trying for that really hard tag.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on December 30, 2013, 09:36:14 AM
Post by: JLS on December 30, 2013, 09:40:43 AM
It is such a ridiculous question unless you are just making small talk. It seems as though you haven't a clue what to put in for and are waiting for someone to give you the right answer to the test. If everyone on here said PEACHES all at the same time, would you really tell your dad to only put in for PEACHES? Why not do homework and find the unit that best fits your ability and the quality of bull you want and go for it. Honestly, you don't have any better of a chance of drawing than the next guy and if you want to hunt a sought after unit then just be patient and put in until you draw. If you want to just spend your points and don't care what unit, do the math and put in for the one that gives you the best odds. Question answered.
Somebody got a chunk or coal for xmas or favorite football team lost today.
:chuckle:
Or he got the wedgie up over the head treatment.
Post by: The scout on December 30, 2013, 09:46:38 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on December 30, 2013, 09:48:26 AM
make sure he applies for a unit he hasn't hunted before and you can come on here and ask for honey holes :hello:that's the plan.
Post by: h20hunter on December 30, 2013, 09:49:30 AM
Post by: et1702 on December 30, 2013, 10:25:55 AM
I don't have that many points, but I've been rethinking this a little bit myself. I personally am going to focus on areas that are not open during the general early archery season (e.g., 342, 360, 368, etc.) or maybe spike or true spike areas that will have fewer general season hunters in the field during the Quality Tag season.
Good luck to your Dad!
ET
Post by: Elkrunner on December 30, 2013, 10:35:07 AM
It is such a ridiculous question unless you are just making small talk. It seems as though you haven't a clue what to put in for and are waiting for someone to give you the right answer to the test. If everyone on here said PEACHES all at the same time, would you really tell your dad to only put in for PEACHES? Why not do homework and find the unit that best fits your ability and the quality of bull you want and go for it. Honestly, you don't have any better of a chance of drawing than the next guy and if you want to hunt a sought after unit then just be patient and put in until you draw. If you want to just spend your points and don't care what unit, do the math and put in for the one that gives you the best odds. Question answered.
Somebody got a chunk or coal for xmas or favorite football team lost today.
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
He must not know DROCK too well..lol
Post by: vandeman17 on December 30, 2013, 10:35:23 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on December 30, 2013, 10:36:54 AM
:chuckle:It is such a ridiculous question unless you are just making small talk. It seems as though you haven't a clue what to put in for and are waiting for someone to give you the right answer to the test. If everyone on here said PEACHES all at the same time, would you really tell your dad to only put in for PEACHES? Why not do homework and find the unit that best fits your ability and the quality of bull you want and go for it. Honestly, you don't have any better of a chance of drawing than the next guy and if you want to hunt a sought after unit then just be patient and put in until you draw. If you want to just spend your points and don't care what unit, do the math and put in for the one that gives you the best odds. Question answered.
Somebody got a chunk or coal for xmas or favorite football team lost today.
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
He must not know DROCK too well..lol
Post by: Elkrunner on December 30, 2013, 10:37:42 AM
Just find some rigs in the area you have been hunting and follow them in.
:yeah:
Also make sure he is a HUNT-WA guy so you can listen to him piss and moan after the season about the jerk who followed him up the road in the morning and parked next to him. Also do not forget to stop and bugle every 100 yards and slam your door. Did I mention that you may want to road hunt on the way in as well.
Post by: Elkrunner on December 30, 2013, 10:39:25 AM
Just find some rigs in the area you have been hunting and follow them in.
:yeah:
Also make sure he is a HUNT-WA guy so you can listen to him piss and moan after the season about the jerk who followed him up the road in the morning and parked next to him. Also do not forget to stop and bugle every 100 yards and slam your door. Did I mention that you may want to road hunt on the way in as well.
I also forgot that you may want to hang a tree stand two trees away from him...or even better just use his stand since it is the woods and is public property.
Post by: h20hunter on December 30, 2013, 10:40:05 AM
Go get 'em Wog!
And good point on the stands.... :chuckle:
Post by: furbearer365 on December 30, 2013, 02:48:46 PM
Post by: ELKBURGER on December 30, 2013, 03:19:28 PM
I'm with Phool on this one. Its hard to get excited over 11 points knowing guys with max points (18-19) get shot down religously. Shoot for the moon...you never know!My dad will have 11 quality bull point in the 2014 season. With the archery dates being a little messed up for 2014 what should I put him in for (eastside). I was thinking with 11 points he may want to hold out and try for a really really good tag. Maybe colockum or in the blues :dunno:With 11 points I would plan on asking the same question with 12. :sry:
Post by: Bob33 on December 30, 2013, 03:48:20 PM
There are lots of applicants with more than 11 points that you have to compete against, and their odds improve faster than yours. For example, with 11 points you will have 121 names in the hat. The applicant with 18 points has 324 names in the hat. Next year, you will have 144 names in the hat but he will have 361. Your count increased 23 but his increased by 37.
If you're young and don't mind waiting around for 10 or 20 years, then apply for the permit you want most.
You might find it more rewarding to apply for easier to draw permits that will allow you to hunt two or three times over a 20 year period, versus once.
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 30, 2013, 04:14:14 PM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on December 30, 2013, 04:34:20 PM
Just PM " SLED " , he'll tie one to a tree for you. He did for me. :tup:
Post by: D-Rock425 on December 31, 2013, 07:48:34 AM
Post by: Odell on December 31, 2013, 08:18:44 AM
Somebody got a chunk or coal for xmas or favorite football team lost today.
:chuckle: Nice way of putting it.
Actually I think it's a great question. I've got 9 quality elk points and I don't know what I want to do with them either. :dunno:
Plan on having 10, that what I do with my 9.
Post by: bobcat on December 31, 2013, 08:36:30 AM
Somebody got a chunk or coal for xmas or favorite football team lost today.
:chuckle: Nice way of putting it.
Actually I think it's a great question. I've got 9 quality elk points and I don't know what I want to do with them either. :dunno:
Plan on having 10, that what I do with my 9.
That's what I'm thinking too- I'll just put in for a point. I'm not sure this will be a year that I want to deal with the pressure of having a "quality" bull permit.
Post by: sakoshooter on December 31, 2013, 10:14:35 AM
I'm not sure. I've always picked the places I wanted to hunt the most in order or #1-4, I guess my point total has never changed that.
I am in the belief that you might as well put in for the hunt you really want no matter how many points you have. Everyone has a chance to draw, even if you only have one point. Once you get to that 6-7 point range, I think I would be a little mad to burn them on a secondary hunt. I would rather just go for broke.
:yeah:
Post by: Elkrunner on December 31, 2013, 04:08:03 PM
I guess we will just put him in for peaches and I'll have to call him off all the small bulls I'll call into him. Since we know peaches and have both taken an elk or two :chuckle: from the area.
Sure take the easy way out
Post by: D-Rock425 on December 31, 2013, 04:12:16 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on December 31, 2013, 04:16:39 PM
Post by: D-Rock425 on December 31, 2013, 04:22:42 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on December 31, 2013, 04:25:53 PM
Probably no big bulls in 336Oops, that's right. If I were him I'd put in for the Margret!!!
Post by: Chuck83 on January 08, 2014, 11:52:23 AM
Post by: Pathfinder101 on January 08, 2014, 12:58:09 PM
No elk in the blues only Bigfoot
:yeah:
...word on the street is that the Colockum is the place to be... :tup:
Post by: D-Rock425 on January 08, 2014, 02:48:29 PM
other people have told me this too :dunno:No elk in the blues only Bigfoot
:yeah:
...word on the street is that the Colockum is the place to be... :tup: