Post by: CoryTDF on January 03, 2014, 08:34:02 AM
Raffle tag holder
You and your guide met me in the Dayton unit during archery season. I was calling in a rag bull in a canyon off of the rainwater ground. You and your guide walked up on me talking in normal voice and scared away the bull that was until that point coming in on a string. I spoke with you the entire walk back to the truck. You told me you were bear hunting and then both of you seemed very interested in what elk I had seen. We parted ways at the road and you drove past me as I walked back to my truck. Later that night i returned to the area and chose to hunt the other side of the road as your truck was back in the same place. I didn’t want you walking back into my setup talking and messing it up again. Just before dark my hunting partner and I heard a series of rifle shots. I assumed that you killed a bear. At my truck I was met by a man that told me he just saw a guy shoot a bull with a rifle. The next day while hunting the same area I ran into another tag holder who had just came from and photographed the headless carcass of said bull. At first it seemed as if it was a poached animal. Due to the bad vibe I was given the day before I called WDFW and reported our encounter and told them of what the other men had told me. To my relief I later found that you in fact were ELK hunting and doing so legally with a raffle tag. I do however question your tactics on handling meat as it was late into the morning when I met with the hunter who showed me the photos and when I left that afternoon no trucks were parked anywhere around. I found out the meat had been packed out but it is my opinion that it was not in time for it to be good. It was left in heat well above the 80 degree mark. It seems the head, cape, and horns where treated far better than the meat. You sir are a killer not a sportsman or hunter. You do not positively represent the sportsman community. It is action like this which will give anti-hunting groups ammo that could shut down this sport for everybody including the wealthy. You would be wise to think about how you handle down game in your future hunting excursions.
Post by: jason stevens on January 03, 2014, 08:49:40 AM
Post by: jackelope on January 03, 2014, 08:49:53 AM
Post by: Elkrunner on January 03, 2014, 08:53:25 AM
Post by: huntergreg on January 03, 2014, 08:58:21 AM
Post by: nw_bowhunter on January 03, 2014, 08:59:45 AM
Post by: Jonathan_S on January 03, 2014, 09:01:30 AM
Post by: Eli346 on January 03, 2014, 09:12:57 AM
Post by: HntnFsh on January 03, 2014, 09:18:29 AM
:camp: sounds like a story I'd like to hear both sides of
Me too. Sounds like could be more to the story. Could it possibly have been somebody else's truck. Or another person not involved with that crew. Guess I'm guilty of talking when I'm walking out of the woods too. Understand your frustration. But to much missing here to jump to conclusions.
Post by: LittleJohn on January 03, 2014, 09:33:31 AM
:camp: sounds like a story I'd like to hear both sides of
Ya that, :tup: :twocents:
Post by: washingtonmuley on January 03, 2014, 09:41:15 AM
Post by: LittleJohn on January 03, 2014, 09:41:42 AM
:camp: sounds like a story I'd like to hear both sides of
Me too. Sounds like could be more to the story. Could it possibly have been somebody else's truck. Or another person not involved with that crew. Guess I'm guilty of talking when I'm walking out of the woods too. Understand your frustration. But to much missing here to jump to conclusions.
I must admit that I have walked in on other hunters set-ups by accident. And I talk to my hunting partners when we walk in the woods. And if I had a raffle tag in my pocket I probably would not be telling anyone about it, especially some random hunter I met in the woods. I might even ask said random hunter if he had seen any bulls in the area.
I have left multiple bulls in the woods over night in 90 degree weather. Quartered in the shade and come back the next day to pack out. :twocents: :twocents:
Post by: CoryTDF on January 03, 2014, 09:44:02 AM
Was the raffle tag holder not suppose to use a rifle? Is the issue about poaching or more about the lack of respect and the way the tag holder acted?
Repect..
Post by: CamoDup on January 03, 2014, 09:44:17 AM
profanity removed
Post by: CoryTDF on January 03, 2014, 09:50:21 AM
:camp: sounds like a story I'd like to hear both sides of
Me too. Sounds like could be more to the story. Could it possibly have been somebody else's truck. Or another person not involved with that crew. Guess I'm guilty of talking when I'm walking out of the woods too. Understand your frustration. But to much missing here to jump to conclusions.
I must admit that I have walked in on other hunters set-ups by accident. And I talk to my hunting partners when we walk in the woods. And if I had a raffle tag in my pocket I probably would not be telling anyone about it, especially some random hunter I met in the woods. I might even ask said random hunter if he had seen any bulls in the area.
I have left multiple bulls in the woods over night in 90 degree weather. Quartered in the shade and come back the next day to pack out. :twocents: :twocents:
I did the same with mine. Left it overnight but was there right at daylight to pack it out. Elk meat is like gold no way i would risk letting it spoil. I have walked up on others as well but I don't just talk outloud while walking out of an area unless I'm packing out meat. I'm pretty damn sure that his meat was bad by the time they got out it though :twocents:
Are you talking about the bull that was posted on this site and killed using Mossback as the guide?Yes
:camp: sounds like a story I'd like to hear both sides of
Ya that, :tup: :twocents:
What other side is there???? Legally he did nothing wrong. But why lie to a fellow hunter?
Post by: nwhunter on January 03, 2014, 09:53:28 AM
Post by: CoryTDF on January 03, 2014, 09:53:40 AM
Sounds like this guy needs to be kicked *censored* if it was in fact him. But I'm curious to know how you know for certain that Mr. Raffle tag guy was the one that shot the bull?
I live here in Walla Walla small twon word travles. Also there are lots of pictures of him all over the internet....
profanity removed
Post by: CoryTDF on January 03, 2014, 09:54:52 AM
I dont know either parties but I do know that this is a low blow accusation to put on the web whether true or not. Basically saying someone is a possible poacher and waster is a harsh accusation and might backfire on you as slander. Everyone has different styles of hunting right or wrong and we can make judgement in our minds or with buddies but I dont support this type of slander online, and again I dont know either guys. nwhunter
Never said he was a poacher. He was legal. Just a bad sportsman. I just added to make sure there is not confusion about that. I had no intention of calling OR making this man out to be a poacher. He was COMPLETLY LEGAL!!!!
Post by: Jonathan_S on January 03, 2014, 10:01:23 AM
:camp: sounds like a story I'd like to hear both sides of
Ya that, :tup: :twocents:
What other side is there???? Legally he did nothing wrong. But why lie to a fellow hunter?
What I meant was I'd like to know the entirety of events that transpired. Of course I never will know it all so what I meant practically is to get more info. Saying they were bear hunting is dishonest sure but I don't usually open up to strangers in the woods.
If I were hiking back from a deer stand and someone asked what I was after, I'd probably be vague and not say, "oh the biggest whitetail buck I found scouting." Holding a raffle tag, I probably wouldn't talk about it either. Not saying I would take the same approach.
Post by: nwhunter on January 03, 2014, 10:11:12 AM
Post by: Jonathan_S on January 03, 2014, 10:17:49 AM
Post by: fastdam on January 03, 2014, 10:23:41 AM
Post by: huntnphool on January 03, 2014, 10:32:48 AM
Post by: h20hunter on January 03, 2014, 10:33:14 AM
Post by: washingtonmuley on January 03, 2014, 10:37:39 AM
Post by: jackelope on January 03, 2014, 10:39:04 AM
If you're going to post something on here, you should be prepared to deal with however it goes.
:twocents:
If the boss man has another opinion, then he can change my mind for me.
Post by: fastdam on January 03, 2014, 10:40:32 AM
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on January 03, 2014, 10:42:54 AM
Personnally, I attempt to live by the motto honesty is the best policy. I don't lie or attempt to decieve other sportsman. I dont offer up info for the most part, but I am honest about what I am hunting and if asked for specifics I dont want to give, I tell them the truth.... I am keeping that info to myself.
Post by: huntnphool on January 03, 2014, 10:48:50 AM
OP deleted it.Make some BS accusations and then remove them, yeah that sounds like a credible story. :chuckle:
Some people are just gonna hate, it's inevitable! :dunno:
Post by: JODakota on January 03, 2014, 11:01:39 AM
Post by: huntnphool on January 03, 2014, 11:13:58 AM
They weren't all be accusations. I was up there when the tag holder shot that bull, and let me tell you it was quite an entertaining 7 or 8 shot s to put that bull down. Now to speak about the weather, it was in the 90s that night and easily in the 100's the next day. Now, idk if that meat was still good, but if it were mine, I wouldn't have eaten it. Let's talk about ethics, you guys are all defending this guy and you weren't even there to see what he did. Let's talk about how mossback and this guy acted when they saw "their" bluecreek bull being toted out by the lucky rifle rut tag holder. Anybody know how they reacted? I sure do and let me tell you, its definitely some of the most unsportsmanlike conduct I have ever seen. I think what Cory is getting at is basically this tag holder, is a straight up *censored*. Well that's my 2 cents, flamw on.Like I said, haters gonna hate! :dunno:
Post by: Tbar on January 03, 2014, 11:15:01 AM
Post by: jackelope on January 03, 2014, 11:16:53 AM
If it's a legit claim in the way they acted, then that sucks and I'd "hate" too.They weren't all be accusations. I was up there when the tag holder shot that bull, and let me tell you it was quite an entertaining 7 or 8 shot s to put that bull down. Now to speak about the weather, it was in the 90s that night and easily in the 100's the next day. Now, idk if that meat was still good, but if it were mine, I wouldn't have eaten it. Let's talk about ethics, you guys are all defending this guy and you weren't even there to see what he did. Let's talk about how mossback and this guy acted when they saw "their" bluecreek bull being toted out by the lucky rifle rut tag holder. Anybody know how they reacted? I sure do and let me tell you, its definitely some of the most unsportsmanlike conduct I have ever seen. I think what Cory is getting at is basically this tag holder, is a straight up *censored*. Well that's my 2 cents, flamw on.Like I said, haters gonna hate! :dunno:
:twocents:
Nobody owns the elk and nobody should be treated differently over a sense of entitlement if that's what it comes down to. If it's just more smack talk that is unfounded, then it just needs to stop.
:twocents:
Post by: DoubleJ on January 03, 2014, 11:22:13 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on January 03, 2014, 11:27:36 AM
Post by: HUNT-HARD on January 03, 2014, 11:28:05 AM
What happened?!?!?!?!?! I always miss everything
Post by: LittleJohn on January 03, 2014, 11:38:51 AM
They weren't all be accusations. I was up there when the tag holder shot that bull, and let me tell you it was quite an entertaining 7 or 8 shot s to put that bull down. Now to speak about the weather, it was in the 90s that night and easily in the 100's the next day. Now, idk if that meat was still good, but if it were mine, I wouldn't have eaten it. Let's talk about ethics, you guys are all defending this guy and you weren't even there to see what he did. Let's talk about how mossback and this guy acted when they saw "their" bluecreek bull being toted out by the lucky rifle rut tag holder. Anybody know how they reacted? I sure do and let me tell you, its definitely some of the most unsportsmanlike conduct I have ever seen. I think what Cory is getting at is basically this tag holder, is a straight up *censored*. Well that's my 2 cents, flamw on.
Soooooo...... lets hear about it, You said nothing about the topic. So the guy shot 7 or 8 times at a bull. I assume it was a big bull, maybe he got a little excited :dunno:
I assume your Mossback flame was a different time and person :dunno: :dunno:
Original post was vague and stated no specifics comments that make me think the dude was anything less than inexperienced. :twocents:
Post by: idahohuntr on January 03, 2014, 11:40:47 AM
I would say their description sounds consistent with other hunter's encounters with Mossback associated folks.
I would be curious to hear more about the Blue Cr. bull encounter.
I also think its good to get this stuff out in the open to hold all hunters accountable. If this guy comes back to hunt with Mossback he might be inclined to treat others with more respect and make certain the meat is well cared for if it wasn't in the past.
Post by: JODakota on January 03, 2014, 11:41:19 AM
Like every year someone complains about a raffle tag holder or high spender Gov tag holder.I don't think anybody is hating that he spent the cash to buy those tags. If he wants to drop thousands of dollars on what I can do for a few hundred, then power to him. We are hating on his behavior as a sportsman.What happened?!?!?!?!?! I always miss everything
Post by: huntnphool on January 03, 2014, 11:42:21 AM
Agreed, sounds more like a couple butt hurt archery hunters that are upset a bull they were after got sniped by a rifle before they could get on it. :twocents:If it's a legit claim in the way they acted, then that sucks and I'd "hate" too.They weren't all be accusations. I was up there when the tag holder shot that bull, and let me tell you it was quite an entertaining 7 or 8 shot s to put that bull down. Now to speak about the weather, it was in the 90s that night and easily in the 100's the next day. Now, idk if that meat was still good, but if it were mine, I wouldn't have eaten it. Let's talk about ethics, you guys are all defending this guy and you weren't even there to see what he did. Let's talk about how mossback and this guy acted when they saw "their" bluecreek bull being toted out by the lucky rifle rut tag holder. Anybody know how they reacted? I sure do and let me tell you, its definitely some of the most unsportsmanlike conduct I have ever seen. I think what Cory is getting at is basically this tag holder, is a straight up *censored*. Well that's my 2 cents, flamw on.Like I said, haters gonna hate! :dunno:
:twocents:
Nobody owns the elk and nobody should be treated differently over a sense of entitlement if that's what it comes down to. If it's just more smack talk that is unfounded, then it just needs to stop.
:twocents:
Don't hate the player, hate the game!
Post by: CoryTDF on January 03, 2014, 11:48:06 AM
Agreed, sounds more like a couple butt hurt archery hunters that are upset a bull they were after got sniped by a rifle before they could get on it. :twocents:If it's a legit claim in the way they acted, then that sucks and I'd "hate" too.They weren't all be accusations. I was up there when the tag holder shot that bull, and let me tell you it was quite an entertaining 7 or 8 shot s to put that bull down. Now to speak about the weather, it was in the 90s that night and easily in the 100's the next day. Now, idk if that meat was still good, but if it were mine, I wouldn't have eaten it. Let's talk about ethics, you guys are all defending this guy and you weren't even there to see what he did. Let's talk about how mossback and this guy acted when they saw "their" bluecreek bull being toted out by the lucky rifle rut tag holder. Anybody know how they reacted? I sure do and let me tell you, its definitely some of the most unsportsmanlike conduct I have ever seen. I think what Cory is getting at is basically this tag holder, is a straight up *censored*. Well that's my 2 cents, flamw on.Like I said, haters gonna hate! :dunno:
:twocents:
Nobody owns the elk and nobody should be treated differently over a sense of entitlement if that's what it comes down to. If it's just more smack talk that is unfounded, then it just needs to stop.
:twocents:
Don't hate the player, hate the game!
You crack me up! You missed the whole point of it. NOTHING to do with being butt hurt about that bull. Hell, I didnt even know it was out there.
Post by: idahohuntr on January 03, 2014, 11:52:33 AM
Thats not how I see it at all. If anything, sounds like JOdakota has more info on these guys being butt hurt they lost out on a 390ish blue cr. bull.
Agreed, sounds more like a couple butt hurt archery hunters that are upset a bull they were after got sniped by a rifle before they could get on it. :twocents:
Don't hate the player, hate the game!
Post by: CoryTDF on January 03, 2014, 11:53:05 AM
Shooting a bull and leaving the meat for what IMHO was an unreasonable amount of time to recover.
Messing up my hunt!
Lying to my face!
Post by: Jonathan_S on January 03, 2014, 11:55:49 AM
Most rich hunters are just inconsiderate *censored*s who have no respect for others. :twocents:
Wow.
Post by: lagnar on January 03, 2014, 11:56:29 AM
Post by: LittleJohn on January 03, 2014, 11:58:03 AM
Most rich hunters are just inconsiderate *censored*s who have no respect for others. :twocents:
How many "rich hunters" have you ran into in the woods and you didn't know it?? Pretty bold statement
Post by: huntnphool on January 03, 2014, 11:59:31 AM
Well I'll never know now will I, since you took your ball and ran home.Agreed, sounds more like a couple butt hurt archery hunters that are upset a bull they were after got sniped by a rifle before they could get on it. :twocents:If it's a legit claim in the way they acted, then that sucks and I'd "hate" too.They weren't all be accusations. I was up there when the tag holder shot that bull, and let me tell you it was quite an entertaining 7 or 8 shot s to put that bull down. Now to speak about the weather, it was in the 90s that night and easily in the 100's the next day. Now, idk if that meat was still good, but if it were mine, I wouldn't have eaten it. Let's talk about ethics, you guys are all defending this guy and you weren't even there to see what he did. Let's talk about how mossback and this guy acted when they saw "their" bluecreek bull being toted out by the lucky rifle rut tag holder. Anybody know how they reacted? I sure do and let me tell you, its definitely some of the most unsportsmanlike conduct I have ever seen. I think what Cory is getting at is basically this tag holder, is a straight up *censored*. Well that's my 2 cents, flamw on.Like I said, haters gonna hate! :dunno:
:twocents:
Nobody owns the elk and nobody should be treated differently over a sense of entitlement if that's what it comes down to. If it's just more smack talk that is unfounded, then it just needs to stop.
:twocents:
Don't hate the player, hate the game!
You crack me up! You missed the whole point of it. NOTHING to do with being butt hurt about that bull. Hell, I didnt even know it was out there.
IMO, anything else you have to say on this thread is pointless, and questionable, since you can't even man up behind your original rant. :twocents:
Post by: Mr Mykiss on January 03, 2014, 12:00:21 PM
They weren't all be accusations. I was up there when the tag holder shot that bull, and let me tell you it was quite an entertaining 7 or 8 shot s to put that bull down. Now to speak about the weather, it was in the 90s that night and easily in the 100's the next day. Now, idk if that meat was still good, but if it were mine, I wouldn't have eaten it. Let's talk about ethics, you guys are all defending this guy and you weren't even there to see what he did. Let's talk about how mossback and this guy acted when they saw "their" bluecreek bull being toted out by the lucky rifle rut tag holder. Anybody know how they reacted? I sure do and let me tell you, its definitely some of the most unsportsmanlike conduct I have ever seen. I think what Cory is getting at is basically this tag holder, is a straight up *censored*. Well that's my 2 cents, flamw on.How dare someone who got lucky, drew a tag, spent only a few hundred bucks on their hunt shoot a bull that was obviously meant for a $50,000 tag and a group photo with 8 guides/spotters??!!
Post by: jackelope on January 03, 2014, 12:06:18 PM
Most rich hunters are just inconsiderate *censored*s who have no respect for others. :twocents:
I agree with you walla walla guys that this so called hunter is lacking in the sportsmanship and ethics categories.
Why or how can you generalize anything like that? Anybody who is wealthy and a hunter lacks respect for others and is inconsiderate?
What do you have to support your claims that this guy is lacking in ethics and sportsmanship other than heresay?
Post by: huntnphool on January 03, 2014, 12:07:05 PM
no kidding :chuckle:They weren't all be accusations. I was up there when the tag holder shot that bull, and let me tell you it was quite an entertaining 7 or 8 shot s to put that bull down. Now to speak about the weather, it was in the 90s that night and easily in the 100's the next day. Now, idk if that meat was still good, but if it were mine, I wouldn't have eaten it. Let's talk about ethics, you guys are all defending this guy and you weren't even there to see what he did. Let's talk about how mossback and this guy acted when they saw "their" bluecreek bull being toted out by the lucky rifle rut tag holder. Anybody know how they reacted? I sure do and let me tell you, its definitely some of the most unsportsmanlike conduct I have ever seen. I think what Cory is getting at is basically this tag holder, is a straight up *censored*. Well that's my 2 cents, flamw on.How dare someone who got lucky, drew a tag, spent only a few hundred bucks on their hunt shoot a bull that was obviously meant for a $50,000 tag and a group photo with 8 guides/spotters??!!
Post by: chukar58 on January 03, 2014, 12:08:42 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 03, 2014, 12:10:43 PM
+1, I know several well off hunters that are as ethical as the come, and some that I'd never hunt with, the exact same thing can be said for several friends that are not well off. :dunno:Most rich hunters are just inconsiderate *censored*s who have no respect for others. :twocents:
I agree with you walla walla guys that this so called hunter is lacking in the sportsmanship and ethics categories.
Why or how can you generalize anything like that? Anybody who is wealthy and a hunter lacks respect for others and is inconsiderate?
What do you have to support your claims that this guy is lacking in ethics and sportsmanship other than heresay?
Post by: CoryTDF on January 03, 2014, 12:15:56 PM
They weren't all be accusations. I was up there when the tag holder shot that bull, and let me tell you it was quite an entertaining 7 or 8 shot s to put that bull down. Now to speak about the weather, it was in the 90s that night and easily in the 100's the next day. Now, idk if that meat was still good, but if it were mine, I wouldn't have eaten it. Let's talk about ethics, you guys are all defending this guy and you weren't even there to see what he did. Let's talk about how mossback and this guy acted when they saw "their" bluecreek bull being toted out by the lucky rifle rut tag holder. Anybody know how they reacted? I sure do and let me tell you, its definitely some of the most unsportsmanlike conduct I have ever seen. I think what Cory is getting at is basically this tag holder, is a straight up *censored*. Well that's my 2 cents, flamw on.How dare someone who got lucky, drew a tag, spent only a few hundred bucks on their hunt shoot a bull that was obviously meant for a $50,000 tag and a group photo with 8 guides/spotters??!!
In this case the guy with $$$$$$$$$$ shot the bull so.........
Post by: CoryTDF on January 03, 2014, 12:20:17 PM
Post by: jackmaster on January 03, 2014, 12:21:13 PM
Post by: Mr Mykiss on January 03, 2014, 12:21:39 PM
Post by: jackelope on January 03, 2014, 12:22:51 PM
Money has jack crap to do with any of this!!! It is about a guy who I ME none of the rest of HW ran into. It's about MY personal experience with this guy and what was done in the area I was hunting in the following days.
Some actually know the guy...
Not me, but some do. Just sayin...
I don't agree/disagree or really have a stance on your situation with the raffle tag hunter. I'm glad to see you repost the story. I did think it was lame to delete it. Thanks for reposting.
Post by: jackelope on January 03, 2014, 12:23:38 PM
you should really put your original post back up, maybe people will take the time to actually read it,
He did.
Post by: jackmaster on January 03, 2014, 12:24:19 PM
Post by: h20hunter on January 03, 2014, 12:25:01 PM
They said they were bear hunting. So what. Cry me a river. They have no reason to tell you what they are after, its not lying, its simply not telling you they are elk hunting.
Head and horns packed out prior to the meat. I agree again. Bad sportsman decision. The meat should be priority number one. However, you said the meat was recovered. We don't know if it had any wastage or not.
Everything else is ranting about this and that.
Post by: headshot5 on January 03, 2014, 12:27:00 PM
Quote
Money has jack crap to do with any of this!!! It is about a guy who I ME none of the rest of HW ran into. It's about MY personal experience with this guy and what was done in the area I was hunting in the following days.
Have you ever been to Cabelas?
Post by: Jonathan_S on January 03, 2014, 12:39:54 PM
Most rich hunters are just inconsiderate *censored*s who have no respect for others. :twocents:
How many "rich hunters" have you ran into in the woods and you didn't know it?? Pretty bold statement
Naches, you're way too smart to say that kind of thing :tup:
Someone in one of my parent's immediate family won the lottery for $10,000,000 in the '90s and you wouldn't have known he was any different than anyone else in the woods. Except for maybe his Benellis and Weatherbys.
A mentor/friend of mine makes mid six-figures and takes time off work to take his nieces and nephews hunting, kinder than 90% of people in the woods.
Post by: HntnFsh on January 03, 2014, 12:50:07 PM
Post by: Jonathan_S on January 03, 2014, 12:53:07 PM
I could be mistaken. But it seems to me the original post was worded a bit differently. Was it modified or added to before being reposted. I think it is coming across a little different than the original..
If that were the original post, this wouldn't have taken off like a turpentined cat.
Post by: CoryTDF on January 03, 2014, 01:04:38 PM
I could be mistaken. But it seems to me the original post was worded a bit differently. Was it modified or added to before being reposted. I think it is coming across a little different than the original..
I cant re-post exactly what was said as i did not save it but those are the main points. I said the same thing in the other post some people just jumped to conclusions and whats better some people even replied to it after it was gone without even reading it. I reposted it as close as I could making sure to note that the raffle tag holder was NOT a poacher. It was really just my opinion it's not a legal document I'm not trying to take the guy to court i was just stating my opinion and in true HW fashion some people had to flame it. Trust me and if not me ask JODakota it was a very interesting night and the following days were full of lots of questions. Nobody can really judge what I say because it is about an experience that I had and about the way it made me Feel.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 03, 2014, 01:08:51 PM
Post by: Todd_ID on January 03, 2014, 01:09:49 PM
Post by: Mr Mykiss on January 03, 2014, 01:17:30 PM
Post by: jackelope on January 03, 2014, 01:28:08 PM
Well here's the deal. You were obviously in a good spot because team mossback was there. You therefore had a shot at the giant bull yourself and you should be grateful/proud that you were in the right spot. I was in your exact same position in 2011 when I had both the raffle and gov tag bulls on trailcam in an area that I'd scouted all summer. My theory was that I was gonna shoot the crap outta the first 350...340...320...300" bull that I came across and I knew that the mb guide crew didn't give one rip about anything under 390 so I was glad that I was in the right spot and that I could have had a shot at a 400" bull. As far as blatantly lying about "bear hunting" that's crap. I told other quality bull tag holders that I too had a tag, we talked bulls plenty but I wouldn't have told them..."blah blah blah 380" bull @45 yards right by ____ this morning" that would just be silly. From what I saw mb spent as much time trying to get out of the trespassing tickets that they'd earned than they did hunting...at least during archery season :chuckle:
Dang trail cameras.
:bash:
Post by: JODakota on January 03, 2014, 01:32:59 PM
Well here's the deal. You were obviously in a good spot because team mossback was there. You therefore had a shot at the giant bull yourself and you should be grateful/proud that you were in the right spot. I was in your exact same position in 2011 when I had both the raffle and gov tag bulls on trailcam in an area that I'd scouted all summer. My theory was that I was gonna shoot the crap outta the first 350...340...320...300" bull that I came across and I knew that the mb guide crew didn't give one rip about anything under 390 so I was glad that I was in the right spot and that I could have had a shot at a 400" bull. As far as blatantly lying about "bear hunting" that's crap. I told other quality bull tag holders that I too had a tag, we talked bulls plenty but I wouldn't have told them..."blah blah blah 380" bull @45 yards right by ____ this morning" that would just be silly. From what I saw mb spent as much time trying to get out of the trespassing tickets that they'd earned than they did hunting...at least during archery season :chuckle:
That's hilarious that you mention trespassing and mossback, because that's exactly what they did to the blue creek tag holder. After they saw the bull was shot, they called him in for trespassing thinking the bull was taken on whiskey creek, when in fact it wasnt. The land owner even came out to talk to to the county sheriff and told him that he had permission to hunt it there. So just to spite the lucky SOB tbru called him in when in fact they had no idea where the bull was shot. Mossback is a joke and so is anybody who hunts with them.
Post by: Dan-o on January 03, 2014, 01:38:43 PM
2. Pretty much all of us have walked into another guys hunt and ruined it. It's a bummer, but it happens. There's almost never ill intent.
3. If they left the meat out, that's bad. But how do you really know unless you watched the whole thing the entire time. Mossback can bring in a lot of strong young backs.
Post by: washingtonmuley on January 03, 2014, 01:40:44 PM
I don't know anything about the situation or the two individuals except that the hunter was with mossback and therefore instantly makes me put my guard up. Anyone who hunts with mossback and his thugs needs to take a step back and reassess what hunting and the outdoors is supposed to be about. That fact in itself should tell a man a lot about someones ethics and character.Agree
Post by: Bigtine96 on January 03, 2014, 01:42:05 PM
They weren't all be accusations. I was up there when the tag holder shot that bull, and let me tell you it was quite an entertaining 7 or 8 shot s to put that bull down. Now to speak about the weather, it was in the 90s that night and easily in the 100's the next day. Now, idk if that meat was still good, but if it were mine, I wouldn't have eaten it. Let's talk about ethics, you guys are all defending this guy and you weren't even there to see what he did. Let's talk about how mossback and this guy acted when they saw "their" bluecreek bull being toted out by the lucky rifle rut tag holder. Anybody know how they reacted? I sure do and let me tell you, its definitely some of the most unsportsmanlike conduct I have ever seen. I think what Cory is getting at is basically this tag holder, is a straight up *censored*. Well that's my 2 cents, flamw on.Like I said, haters gonna hate! :dunno:
I read this in your posts all the time, are you one of those guys that have the "I heart haters" in their back window? :chuckle:
Post by: rtspring on January 03, 2014, 02:13:48 PM
Rtspring
Post by: Mr Mykiss on January 03, 2014, 02:19:03 PM
Is this what big antlers have done to hunting?? What a bunch of BS...Didn't you recently post that... "there's no reason not to take a mature bull with any peaches tag" :chuckle: :chuckle:
Rtspring
I kid. I kid.
Yes when it becomes a checkbook/horn measuring contest this is what big antlers have done to hunting :(
Post by: rtspring on January 03, 2014, 02:20:46 PM
Is this what big antlers have done to hunting?? What a bunch of BS...Didn't you recently post that... "there's no reason not to take a mature bull with any peaches tag" :chuckle: :chuckle:
Rtspring
I kid. I kid.
Yes when it becomes a checkbook/horn measuring contest this is what big antlers have done to hunting :(
I believe I said SPIKE!! :chuckle:
Post by: jackelope on January 03, 2014, 02:25:20 PM
Is this what big antlers have done to hunting?? What a bunch of BS...Didn't you recently post that... "there's no reason not to take a mature bull with any peaches tag" :chuckle: :chuckle:
Rtspring
I kid. I kid.
Yes when it becomes a checkbook/horn measuring contest this is what big antlers have done to hunting :(
I believe this is what big antlers have done to a few hunts every year in our state and a lot of the other western states as well. I wouldn't say it's an all of hunting thing...
Post by: Mr Mykiss on January 03, 2014, 02:31:33 PM
However Joe Schmo rarely says "I gotta shoot the biggest one in the state with this tag..."
Imagine those big $$$ raffle/governor tag guys sitting around drinking 50 year old scotch and measuring...wouldn't be much talk of nice 360-380" bulls that they might have a chance to kill.
Post by: jstone on January 03, 2014, 03:06:35 PM
Post by: furbearer365 on January 03, 2014, 03:13:59 PM
Post by: Jonathan_S on January 03, 2014, 03:25:23 PM
Here is what I think is BS about all you guys calling Cory a "hater." YOU WERENT THERE. Why on Gods green earth would Cory or JODakota get on here and tell THEIR story just to bash the guy. Do you think he is lying, do you think he is making it up? Do you really think the guy blew his hunt for him then completely apologized and Cory just decided to make up that he was a jerk about it. A normal guy like Cory draws the tag and hunts hard to kill the bull he got, and you guys are finding it hard to believe that a guy that spends 50,000 on a tag and hires a joke of crew like mossback could be jerks and less than ethical. He told the story how it went down and what he saw. There isn't a damn one of you that wouldn't see it the same way had you lived it. You are right, bumping another hunter happens, but most would be apologetic and sorry for ruining it for another, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO BE BEAR HUNTING. Why would they walk into another mans setup if they are suppose to be going after bear. They did so the ruin it for him because they were afraid he was on "THEIR" bull. How much more obvious do you need it to be. Then he hears shooting and finds a bull with the head cut off and meat left in the heat. Why would he not think something is up? You guys are the ones that need look in the mirror and wonder who the HATER are. Go ahead and stand up for these horn seekers and MOSSCRACK crew all you want boys, I'll stand behind Cory and real ethics
I don't see much defending Mossback. I see a lot of grey area on the circumstance. If you didn't read the original post (not the current OP) then you wouldn't understand that.
You seem cranky.
Post by: huntnphool on January 03, 2014, 03:25:31 PM
:chuckle:They weren't all be accusations. I was up there when the tag holder shot that bull, and let me tell you it was quite an entertaining 7 or 8 shot s to put that bull down. Now to speak about the weather, it was in the 90s that night and easily in the 100's the next day. Now, idk if that meat was still good, but if it were mine, I wouldn't have eaten it. Let's talk about ethics, you guys are all defending this guy and you weren't even there to see what he did. Let's talk about how mossback and this guy acted when they saw "their" bluecreek bull being toted out by the lucky rifle rut tag holder. Anybody know how they reacted? I sure do and let me tell you, its definitely some of the most unsportsmanlike conduct I have ever seen. I think what Cory is getting at is basically this tag holder, is a straight up *censored*. Well that's my 2 cents, flamw on.Like I said, haters gonna hate! :dunno:
I read this in your posts all the time, are you one of those guys that have the "I heart haters" in their back window? :chuckle:
Post by: furbearer365 on January 03, 2014, 03:39:54 PM
Here is what I think is BS about all you guys calling Cory a "hater." YOU WERENT THERE. Why on Gods green earth would Cory or JODakota get on here and tell THEIR story just to bash the guy. Do you think he is lying, do you think he is making it up? Do you really think the guy blew his hunt for him then completely apologized and Cory just decided to make up that he was a jerk about it. A normal guy like Cory draws the tag and hunts hard to kill the bull he got, and you guys are finding it hard to believe that a guy that spends 50,000 on a tag and hires a joke of crew like mossback could be jerks and less than ethical. He told the story how it went down and what he saw. There isn't a damn one of you that wouldn't see it the same way had you lived it. You are right, bumping another hunter happens, but most would be apologetic and sorry for ruining it for another, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO BE BEAR HUNTING. Why would they walk into another mans setup if they are suppose to be going after bear. They did so the ruin it for him because they were afraid he was on "THEIR" bull. How much more obvious do you need it to be. Then he hears shooting and finds a bull with the head cut off and meat left in the heat. Why would he not think something is up? You guys are the ones that need look in the mirror and wonder who the HATER are. Go ahead and stand up for these horn seekers and MOSSCRACK crew all you want boys, I'll stand behind Cory and real ethics
I don't see much defending Mossback. I see a lot of grey area on the circumstance. If you didn't read the original post (not the current OP) then you wouldn't understand that.
You seem cranky.
Cranky? I am far from it. I just read almost 3 pages of dudes bashing Cory for what happened to him on his hunt. It just doesn't make sense that he is being bashed for telling what happened, by a bunch of people who didn't see it happen. It is as plain as rain what point Cory is trying convey and many are just not wanting hear it and say, maybe the raffle holder and his crew were in the wrong
Post by: kirkl on January 03, 2014, 03:55:38 PM
Post by: HntnFsh on January 03, 2014, 04:18:42 PM
Here is what I think is BS about all you guys calling Cory a "hater." YOU WERENT THERE. Why on Gods green earth would Cory or JODakota get on here and tell THEIR story just to bash the guy. Do you think he is lying, do you think he is making it up? Do you really think the guy blew his hunt for him then completely apologized and Cory just decided to make up that he was a jerk about it. A normal guy like Cory draws the tag and hunts hard to kill the bull he got, and you guys are finding it hard to believe that a guy that spends 50,000 on a tag and hires a joke of crew like mossback could be jerks and less than ethical. He told the story how it went down and what he saw. There isn't a damn one of you that wouldn't see it the same way had you lived it. You are right, bumping another hunter happens, but most would be apologetic and sorry for ruining it for another, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO BE BEAR HUNTING. Why would they walk into another mans setup if they are suppose to be going after bear. They did so the ruin it for him because they were afraid he was on "THEIR" bull. How much more obvious do you need it to be. Then he hears shooting and finds a bull with the head cut off and meat left in the heat. Why would he not think something is up? You guys are the ones that need look in the mirror and wonder who the HATER are. Go ahead and stand up for these horn seekers and MOSSCRACK crew all you want boys, I'll stand behind Cory and real ethics
Lighten up a little. I dont think that there is a huge support group for Mossback and crew. And maybe the raffle tag hunter was out of line. I think the reason that there are some inflamatory remarks coming back at the original poster is because his original post was more inflamatory than the one he reposted. Kinda goes hand in hand! Maybe he thought about it a little more and saw that. And reposted in a better way.
There were also what seemed to be some assumptions made in the first post. Making people wonder what the other side of the story is.
I think we all write things in the heat of the moment that we wish we would have put more thought into beforehand. Corey is probably a stand up guy. Just the way things go sometimes.
Post by: haugenna on January 03, 2014, 04:56:05 PM
When I am hunting, I am not telling anybody anything about the area I am hunting. Some people have the gift of gab in person and on the internet. I ask questions and let them talk.
Post by: Watimberghost on January 03, 2014, 05:18:32 PM
Post by: furbearer365 on January 03, 2014, 05:26:35 PM
I think a lot of these guys have man crushes on this raffle tag dude :) story sounds legit to me and I don't know Cory or the raffle dude.
Exactly. They see a bull go down and they don't want to believe that someone they are envious of could act out of line. Its like the first time you see one of your Middle School teachers smoking a cigarette. You just want to hold on and not believe the facts :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: CoryTDF on January 03, 2014, 05:26:42 PM
Post by: haugenna on January 03, 2014, 05:52:06 PM
Does the hunter have the responsibility to pack the meat out or does the guide and his minions? For all you know the hunter could have paid the guide to handle all meat care and pack out of meat. If that is the case, it is not the hunter's responsibility. Yeah you could argue that the hunter should pack out the meat because you pack out your own meat but that might not be the case when you hire a guide. I personally have never gone on a guided hunt so I don't know how that goes. I have only drawn the conclusion from watching the TV hunting shows. The hunter rarely packs meat. He just smiles and walks while the guide packs the load. In the case of an elk, its not a one trip wonder with just one guy.
When you guide people duck hunting, do you clean the ducks or do you hand them whole to the customer to do it. I hunted Eagle Lakes once and we handed our birds to some guys in a room and they processed them for us. I gave the guy a tip and off we went.
I think we can all share your frustrations of having your stalk spoiled. It happens and is part of hunting.
Personally, I am not crazy about being within 100 yards of a bull during the rut with the potential of an errant bullet from 200+ yards away striking me. Doesn't seem very safe if you ask me.
Post by: jackelope on January 03, 2014, 05:57:52 PM
:twocents:
Post by: Watimberghost on January 03, 2014, 06:03:32 PM
Post by: CoryTDF on January 03, 2014, 06:22:35 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on January 03, 2014, 06:25:16 PM
It is the hunters responsibility to make sure the meat is properly cared for. He can do it himself, hire packers, call friends, whatever he wants, but it is his responsibility to make sure the meat is not wasted.
Does the hunter have the responsibility to pack the meat out or does the guide and his minions? For all you know the hunter could have paid the guide to handle all meat care and pack out of meat. If that is the case, it is not the hunter's responsibility. Yeah you could argue that the hunter should pack out the meat because you pack out your own meat but that might not be the case when you hire a guide. I personally have never gone on a guided hunt so I don't know how that goes. I have only drawn the conclusion from watching the TV hunting shows. The hunter rarely packs meat. He just smiles and walks while the guide packs the load. In the case of an elk, its not a one trip wonder with just one guy.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on January 03, 2014, 06:35:11 PM
That's why I do not support trophy hunting ...some guys just care about the horns and bragging rights ...many do not care about the meat or eating it .....I know many and still stand my ground friends or not ....Not saying everyone does it but the ones that do just make me sick !Is this what big antlers have done to hunting?? What a bunch of BS...Didn't you recently post that... "there's no reason not to take a mature bull with any peaches tag" :chuckle: :chuckle:
Rtspring
I kid. I kid.
Yes when it becomes a checkbook/horn measuring contest this is what big antlers have done to hunting :(
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on January 03, 2014, 06:39:35 PM
Post by: actionshooter on January 03, 2014, 06:40:37 PM
I usually judge a post in part by the way the poster has defined himself on the board and Corey has always seemed to be a straight shooter. Myself, if I had witnessed this, there would have been a call to the WDFW wardens.
Oh-ya, all the above is just my opinion, if you don't agree, too bad :)
Post by: haugenna on January 03, 2014, 06:43:07 PM
I YOU shot it it is YOUR responsibility to care for the meat. Tag stays with the largest portion kf the animal. Ultimatly the fault will fall on he who pulled tje trigger. You kill it you have a moral obligation to make sure it is taken care ofproperly. PLEASE! somebody to to argue that! Please!
I see a few holes in your argument here. The tag stays with the determination of sex or the first pack out. In this case it was the horns. I don't want to be possessing a head and horns with out it being tagged. Second to that, I don't want to be in possession of a bunch of meat without proper sex identification. I always tag the horns and I think most of us on here do that.
Second, if a guide is being paid to pack out the meat then the hunter is not responsible for it. That is part of the guided experience that he/she has paid for. The hunter could be back home with the horns and cape and in good faith asked the meat be donated to a homeless shelter. For all he knows, the meat was taken care of that night. In this case it wasn't. I think you are making a HUGE assumption that the hunter knowingly and willingly said "screw the meat and let it spoil" In the case of it being a high dollar tag it would be an easy assumption that he paid the guide to do it. Remember, this is a guided hunt, not a DYI. Big difference.
Post by: actionshooter on January 03, 2014, 06:46:15 PM
I YOU shot it it is YOUR responsibility to care for the meat. Tag stays with the largest portion kf the animal. Ultimatly the fault will fall on he who pulled tje trigger. You kill it you have a moral obligation to make sure it is taken care ofproperly. PLEASE! somebody to to argue that! Please!
I see a few holes in your argument here. The tag stays with the determination of sex or the first pack out. In this case it was the horns. I don't want to be possessing a head and horns with out it being tagged. Second to that, I don't want to be in possession of a bunch of meat without proper sex identification. I always tag the horns and I think most of us on here do that.
Second, if a guide is being paid to pack out the meat then the hunter is not responsible for it. That is part of the guided experience that he/she has paid for. The hunter could be back home with the horns and cape and in good faith asked the meat be donated to a homeless shelter. For all he knows, the meat was taken care of that night. In this case it wasn't but I don't think it is the hunter's responsibility if he paid the guide to do it. Remember, this is a guided hunt, not a DYI. Big difference.
I would tend to agree, but I would be the state would hand out a waste ticket to both.
Post by: Kazekurt on January 03, 2014, 06:46:26 PM
Post by: furbearer365 on January 03, 2014, 07:25:12 PM
I YOU shot it it is YOUR responsibility to care for the meat. Tag stays with the largest portion kf the animal. Ultimatly the fault will fall on he who pulled tje trigger. You kill it you have a moral obligation to make sure it is taken care ofproperly. PLEASE! somebody to to argue that! Please!
I see a few holes in your argument here. The tag stays with the determination of sex or the first pack out. In this case it was the horns. I don't want to be possessing a head and horns with out it being tagged. Second to that, I don't want to be in possession of a bunch of meat without proper sex identification. I always tag the horns and I think most of us on here do that.
Second, if a guide is being paid to pack out the meat then the hunter is not responsible for it. That is part of the guided experience that he/she has paid for. The hunter could be back home with the horns and cape and in good faith asked the meat be donated to a homeless shelter. For all he knows, the meat was taken care of that night. In this case it wasn't. I think you are making a HUGE assumption that the hunter knowingly and willingly said "screw the meat and let it spoil" In the case of it being a high dollar tag it would be an easy assumption that he paid the guide to do it. Remember, this is a guided hunt, not a DYI. Big difference.
Lets assume that you are correct. You are doing nothing but helping Cory's argument. Most of his argument is of ethical actions. If the said Raffle tag holder paid for the guide to pack the meat and just shot it, took his head and cape, and ASSUMED the guide would take care of it, BOOOOOO on is part, and therefore UNETHICAL. Just because he has the ability to pay them to pack it out, doesn't mean it is ethical for him to just shoot it, get his pictures and walk away. He very easily could of stayed and been a part of that process out of respect for the bull he shot and made sure it was taken care of. So go back and read your post and you ask yourself, even if you are correct is you ASSUMPTION, was the tag holder in right in an ethical sense.
Post by: haugenna on January 03, 2014, 07:46:22 PM
Ethical- Yes
Lazier than me- Yes
If it happened to me would I be frustrated- Yes
Would you find me complaining about it on an internet forum 3 1/2 months later- NO
He may not have been the one who caped it or even got a drop of blood on his hands. He took the animal in fair chase in accordance to Washington hunting laws.
Post by: BOHNTR on January 03, 2014, 07:59:34 PM
I work with Cory and know he is a hunting fool...that being said, I feel the bottom line is the proper care of game is the key issue.
I know in Alaska that the cape and horns is the LAST thing to be packed out, with the meat being the PRIORITY, this is also the ethical thing to do.
Living here on the East side the early seasons are extremely challenging for meat retention.
Taking the head out first is just immoral/unethical. :twocents:
Post by: coachcw on January 03, 2014, 08:36:38 PM
Post by: furbearer365 on January 03, 2014, 09:07:44 PM
To answer your question-
Ethical- Yes
Lazier than me- Yes
If it happened to me would I be frustrated- Yes
Would you find me complaining about it on an internet forum 3 1/2 months later- NO
He may not have been the one who caped it or even got a drop of blood on his hands. He took the animal in fair chase in accordance to Washington hunting laws.
I don't really believe that Cory is "complaining" about anything. I think he is spot on to put out there what he saw and let the people know when such events take place. Cory, or any tag holder, has every right to hunt a unit when he or she draws a tag. These high dollar guys that throw there money around are fine in doing so, but not when others are deterred from setting their own goals with a tag they rightfully earned. I don't care who you are, how much you paid for a tag, or how many guys you rented to help, every legal hunter with a tag for that unit is entitled to hunt with no questions. You obviously don't get what Cory was getting at in the beginning of this post. Its was already said by him and many others that the tag holder did nothing illegal (that he knew of). The whole point to this post is of ethics and proper care of game. I don't know why your opinion is based on legality because that is not the issue and never has been. If you are one of those that believes that the law sets whether something is ethical or not that's fine, but some of us dont see the law as the golden rule of ethics and believe that all hunters have an obligation to the game we hunt.
Post by: huntnphool on January 03, 2014, 09:35:15 PM
To answer your question-
Ethical- Yes
Lazier than me- Yes
If it happened to me would I be frustrated- Yes
Would you find me complaining about it on an internet forum 3 1/2 months later- NO
He may not have been the one who caped it or even got a drop of blood on his hands. He took the animal in fair chase in accordance to Washington hunting laws.
I don't really believe that Cory is "complaining" about anything. I think he is spot on to put out there what he saw and let the people know when such events take place. Cory, or any tag holder, has every right to hunt a unit when he or she draws a tag. These high dollar guys that throw there money around are fine in doing so, but not when others are deterred from setting their own goals with a tag they rightfully earned. I don't care who you are, how much you paid for a tag, or how many guys you rented to help, every legal hunter with a tag for that unit is entitled to hunt with no questions. You obviously don't get what Cory was getting at in the beginning of this post. Its was already said by him and many others that the tag holder did nothing illegal (that he knew of). The whole point to this post is of ethics and proper care of game. I don't know why your opinion is based on legality because that is not the issue and never has been. If you are one of those that believes that the law sets whether something is ethical or not that's fine, but some of us dont see the law as the golden rule of ethics and believe that all hunters have an obligation to the game we hunt.
Fair enough, but Cory is only ASSUMING meat was lost, he does not know how it ended up, and neither does anyone else on here, correct?
If Cory has some evidence, WDFW investigation report etc. to back up his assumption then hell yes his comments would be justified, but he doesn't, and at this point all it is is slander, and likely why he removed/watered down his original post, to avoid litigation. :twocents:
Post by: huntnphool on January 03, 2014, 09:53:39 PM
My guess is the tag holder and the guide could have cared less about the meat , no doubt those guys paying huge money are horn hunting , who are we trying to kid. I'm sure he'd just pay the ticket rather than bust his ass in the heat to pack meat.
Most rich hunters are just inconsiderate *censored*s who have no respect for others.
And we thought it was the anti hunters that made all the generalities, unbelievable.
Post by: furbearer365 on January 03, 2014, 10:21:27 PM
Post by: CoryTDF on January 03, 2014, 10:24:45 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 03, 2014, 10:38:08 PM
Nowhere in his post did it say that the meat was left to rot or that it is guaranteed that it was bad. He simply said that in the condition it was left, he personally found it hard to believe it to be good, I don't understand why that would be illegal for him to say. He was there and visually saw the conditions of how it was left and what the weather conditions were that day. Are you saying that he doesn't have the ability or the know how to make a generalization on whether the situation is justified or not?
Nope, just saying that starting a thread directed at him and implying that he wasted the meat, and is unethical for doing so is speculation. You even said that his post was "about ethical actions"...
Quote from: link=topic=143857.msg1911353#msg1911353 date=1388803387Most of his argument is of ethical actions.Quote from: link=topic=143857.msg1911321#msg1911321 date=1388802155
...yet he has no clue if any meat was lost, he assumed it. In my opinion assumption is not worthy of slander.
Now, as for the rest of his rant, again it sounds like sour grapes for having a nice bull sniped out from under him. I agree that would suck, but regardless who he thought he was chatting with, if he gave out information that led to them getting to that bull first....well then....he has nobody to blame but himself and should chalk it up to a lesson learned. :twocents:
Post by: idahohuntr on January 03, 2014, 10:38:55 PM
Furthermore, the OP is nearly identical to what is up now...it is not a "watered down" version...you liberals and your threats of litigation crack me up.
There really would be some upside to raffle man suing for libel though...when it got tossed and he had to pay all the legal fees, Cory could probably get a lawyer to submit enough bills to cover the cost of the auction tag :chuckle:
Post by: huntnphool on January 03, 2014, 10:41:18 PM
God Forbid a free man could form an opinion based on common sense and logic that is just ludicrous!Had you based your comment on common sense and logic I wouldn't have said anything, the fact is you based it on assumption and speculation. ;)
Post by: huntnphool on January 03, 2014, 10:51:28 PM
Give me a break phool...first of all you incorrectly apply the term slander...in this case it would be libel. But before you google those definitions, pull out a copy of the constitution and read the 1st amendment. He is entitled to speak his mind about how poorly he felt raffle man cared for the meat given the circumstances. Just because WDFW didn't charge him with waste of game does not diminish his opinion.Correct, litigation would be "libel" however what he has said is no less "slander".
Furthermore, the OP is nearly identical to what is up now...it is not a "watered down" version...you liberals and your threats of litigation crack me up.
There really would be some upside to raffle man suing for libel though...when it got tossed and he had to pay all the legal fees, Cory could probably get a lawyer to submit enough bills to cover the cost of the auction tag :chuckle:
First amendment or not, his comments could be used against him, and in my opinion is why he removed them and "watered them down"
And since you want to bring up the constitution, are you talking about the same document that says we are "innocent until proven guilty", or has it recently been changed to "innocent until assumed guilty? :dunno:
Bottom line is he based his entire rant on meat spoiling, of which he has no proof, only assumption. Thats hardly justification for this thread. :twocents:
Post by: actionshooter on January 03, 2014, 11:07:27 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 03, 2014, 11:17:05 PM
Hey guys don't stop now, there isn't crap on TV tonight and I'm learning stuff here. :chuckle::chuckle:
Post by: JODakota on January 04, 2014, 12:06:13 AM
Nowhere in his post did it say that the meat was left to rot or that it is guaranteed that it was bad. He simply said that in the condition it was left, he personally found it hard to believe it to be good, I don't understand why that would be illegal for him to say. He was there and visually saw the conditions of how it was left and what the weather conditions were that day. Are you saying that he doesn't have the ability or the know how to make a generalization on whether the situation is justified or not?
Nope, just saying that starting a thread directed at him and implying that he wasted the meat, and is unethical for doing so is speculation. You even said that his post was "about ethical actions"...Quote from: link=topic=143857.msg1911353#msg1911353 date=1388803387Most of his argument is of ethical actions.Quote from: link=topic=143857.msg1911321#msg1911321 date=1388802155
...yet he has no clue if any meat was lost, he assumed it. In my opinion assumption is not worthy of slander.
Now, as for the rest of his rant, again it sounds like sour grapes for having a nice bull sniped out from under him. I agree that would suck, but regardless who he thought he was chatting with, if he gave out information that led to them getting to that bull first....well then....he has nobody to blame but himself and should chalk it up to a lesson learned. :twocents:
Are you seriously this retarded phool???? My God man. Like Cory stated,we didn't even have a clue this bull was around. I know for a fact that Cory was ready to plug the first raghorn to come out by this point. This has nothing to do with a "bull sniped from under our noses." You speak like a 14 year boy saying stuff like "haters gunna hate." What are you a child? Speak like a man. I have no idea where the wealth came into play on this subject. I don't give two *censored*s how wealthy this guy is, or how much money he spent on his tags. That's not even a factor. What is a factor is how he, and his guide service behaved...which was piss poor. All your doing now is making yourself out to look like an idiot. Your what, in your 50s or 60s??? Act like it man.
Post by: blacktail luv on January 04, 2014, 12:07:43 AM
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on January 04, 2014, 12:11:19 AM
If that has already been discussed, sorry I missed it.
OK I see that was in the OP that had been deleted.
Post by: JODakota on January 04, 2014, 12:13:57 AM
Curious why, if Cory thought the meat might be wasted he didn't go back to see if it had been retrieved? Without that knowledge, the rest of this conversation is moot.We contacted fish and game. That is why. Oh and phool, about the comment about two butthurt archers....we both filled our elk tags.
If that has already been discussed, sorry I missed it.
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on January 04, 2014, 12:31:23 AM
Look, I'm all about taking care of your meat before anything else gets taken care of. And I'm not impressed by guys who buy their success by buying Governors tags and hiring a guide. In fact I'm against Governors tags. I'd rather see a raffle than somebody jumping over all the average hunters because he has money.
But unless I had positive proof that the meat was wasted, I wouldn't be blasting this all over the internet months after it happened. You might be right, but if you're not, how are you going to make it up to this guy? Plus this is pretty one sided. He's not here to defend himself. Maybe someone should contact him and see if he wants to respond?
Post by: huntnphool on January 04, 2014, 12:33:57 AM
Resort to name calling, nice. :tung:Nowhere in his post did it say that the meat was left to rot or that it is guaranteed that it was bad. He simply said that in the condition it was left, he personally found it hard to believe it to be good, I don't understand why that would be illegal for him to say. He was there and visually saw the conditions of how it was left and what the weather conditions were that day. Are you saying that he doesn't have the ability or the know how to make a generalization on whether the situation is justified or not?
Nope, just saying that starting a thread directed at him and implying that he wasted the meat, and is unethical for doing so is speculation. You even said that his post was "about ethical actions"...Quote from: link=topic=143857.msg1911353#msg1911353 date=1388803387Most of his argument is of ethical actions.Quote from: link=topic=143857.msg1911321#msg1911321 date=1388802155
...yet he has no clue if any meat was lost, he assumed it. In my opinion assumption is not worthy of slander.
Now, as for the rest of his rant, again it sounds like sour grapes for having a nice bull sniped out from under him. I agree that would suck, but regardless who he thought he was chatting with, if he gave out information that led to them getting to that bull first....well then....he has nobody to blame but himself and should chalk it up to a lesson learned. :twocents:
Are you seriously this retarded phool???? My God man. Like Cory stated,we didn't even have a clue this bull was around. I know for a fact that Cory was ready to plug the first raghorn to come out by this point. This has nothing to do with a "bull sniped from under our noses." You speak like a 14 year boy saying stuff like "haters gunna hate." What are you a child? Speak like a man. I have no idea where the wealth came into play on this subject. I don't give two *censored*s how wealthy this guy is, or how much money he spent on his tags. That's not even a factor. What is a factor is how he, and his guide service behaved...which was piss poor. All your doing now is making yourself out to look like an idiot. Your what, in your 50s or 60s??? Act like it man.
If you guys had filled your tags then why did Cory tell him he was in there elk hunting? Now who lied to whom? :rolleyes:
Try to stick to the points for the thread there Dakota, nice try at deflecting though.
If the guy left the animal to waste then by all means he should be charged and dealt with accordingly, but neither of you know how the meat turned out, you just assumed, so as mentioned before makes the entire thread moot.
Post by: huntnphool on January 04, 2014, 12:35:40 AM
OK so if you contacted Fish and Wildlife, then it was up to them to decide if anything had been wasted. Haven't heard anything from them about this.Thats all I'm saying too.
Look, I'm all about taking care of your meat before anything else gets taken care of. And I'm not impressed by guys who buy their success by buying Governors tags and hiring a guide. In fact I'm against Governors tags. I'd rather see a raffle than somebody jumping over all the average hunters because he has money.
But unless I had positive proof that the meat was wasted, I wouldn't be blasting this all over the internet months after it happened. You might be right, but if you're not, how are you going to make it up to this guy? Plus this is pretty one sided. He's not here to defend himself. Maybe someone should contact him and see if he wants to respond?
Post by: JODakota on January 04, 2014, 12:40:03 AM
OK so if you contacted Fish and Wildlife, then it was up to them to decide if anything had been wasted. Haven't heard anything from them about this.
Look, I'm all about taking care of your meat before anything else gets taken care of. And I'm not impressed by guys who buy their success by buying Governors tags and hiring a guide. In fact I'm against Governors tags. I'd rather see a raffle than somebody jumping over all the average hunters because he has money.
But unless I had positive proof that the meat was wasted, I wouldn't be blasting this all over the internet months after it happened. You might be right, but if you're not, how are you going to make it up to this guy? Plus this is pretty one sided. He's not here to defend himself. Maybe someone should contact him and see if he wants to respond?
Your absolutely right. I see where your coming from. But let me ask you this. Lets say you report a crime being committed, lets just say a murder...do you thinkthe police are going to tell you the details of there investigation? See what im getting at? I sure hope that meat wasn't wasted and I for some reason have enough faith left in humanity to assume the best in things and that it was the best tasting elk ever had. But, the fact is that it was put at a high risk for bone sour,and those guys were more concerned about the horns, than the meat, which is just a disgrace to that animal. I for a fact would love to hear his response. I am man enough to apologize for any wrong I have committed, but from what happened, I just don't see anything to apologize for. So what is there to make up to him?
Post by: JODakota on January 04, 2014, 12:44:35 AM
Resort to name calling, nice. :tung:Nowhere in his post did it say that the meat was left to rot or that it is guaranteed that it was bad. He simply said that in the condition it was left, he personally found it hard to believe it to be good, I don't understand why that would be illegal for him to say. He was there and visually saw the conditions of how it was left and what the weather conditions were that day. Are you saying that he doesn't have the ability or the know how to make a generalization on whether the situation is justified or not?
Nope, just saying that starting a thread directed at him and implying that he wasted the meat, and is unethical for doing so is speculation. You even said that his post was "about ethical actions"...Quote from: link=topic=143857.msg1911353#msg1911353 date=1388803387Most of his argument is of ethical actions.Quote from: link=topic=143857.msg1911321#msg1911321 date=1388802155
...yet he has no clue if any meat was lost, he assumed it. In my opinion assumption is not worthy of slander.
Now, as for the rest of his rant, again it sounds like sour grapes for having a nice bull sniped out from under him. I agree that would suck, but regardless who he thought he was chatting with, if he gave out information that led to them getting to that bull first....well then....he has nobody to blame but himself and should chalk it up to a lesson learned. :twocents:
Are you seriously this retarded phool???? My God man. Like Cory stated,we didn't even have a clue this bull was around. I know for a fact that Cory was ready to plug the first raghorn to come out by this point. This has nothing to do with a "bull sniped from under our noses." You speak like a 14 year boy saying stuff like "haters gunna hate." What are you a child? Speak like a man. I have no idea where the wealth came into play on this subject. I don't give two *censored*s how wealthy this guy is, or how much money he spent on his tags. That's not even a factor. What is a factor is how he, and his guide service behaved...which was piss poor. All your doing now is making yourself out to look like an idiot. Your what, in your 50s or 60s??? Act like it man.
If you guys had filled your tags then why did Cory tell him he was in there elk hunting? Now who lied to whom? :rolleyes:
Try to stick to the points for the thread there Dakota, nice try at deflecting though.
If the guy left the animal to waste then by all means he should be charged and dealt with accordingly, but neither of you know how the meat turned out, you just assumed, so as mentioned before makes the entire thread moot.
What are you talking about????? Deflecting????? I filled mine, Cory filled his a few days after this hunt. I find it hilarious that you think we were upset that this bull was sniped under our noses, when neither of us had ever even knew it existed. But as you say, haters gunna hate lmao. Jesus, your like a child phool.
Post by: JODakota on January 04, 2014, 12:49:46 AM
Post by: huntnphool on January 04, 2014, 01:18:22 AM
Oh and you want to comment on the name calling? I have watched you belittle forum members with smart ass comments for over a year. Its called karma bro. Everybody has dealt with your *censored*, if you can't take it, then don't give it.I sleep just fine at night Dakota, ;) I'm not concerned the least bit with anything your shoveling!
Post by: CoryTDF on January 04, 2014, 06:58:37 AM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on January 04, 2014, 07:06:28 AM
Post by: fastdam on January 04, 2014, 09:31:11 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 04, 2014, 10:49:09 AM
Post by: bobdog86 on January 04, 2014, 11:10:52 AM
Post by: jrod on January 04, 2014, 01:20:07 PM
Oh and you want to comment on the name calling? I have watched you belittle forum members with smart ass comments for over a year. Its called karma bro. Everybody has dealt with your *censored*, if you can't take it, then don't give it.You hit the nail on the head Dakota !!!! Fool's one of those guys that lives through tag holders vicariously!! Probly has a new hunting partner every year!! :chuckle:
Post by: Pinetar on January 04, 2014, 01:58:33 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 04, 2014, 08:32:58 PM
Oh and you want to comment on the name calling? I have watched you belittle forum members with smart ass comments for over a year. Its called karma bro. Everybody has dealt with your *censored*, if you can't take it, then don't give it.You hit the nail on the head Dakota !!!! Fool's one of those guys that lives through tag holders vicariously!! Probly has a new hunting partner every year!! :chuckle:
:chuckle:
Post by: haugenna on January 04, 2014, 08:49:41 PM
Just out of curiosity Cory, but what shape was the carcass in? Quartered, halved, whole, boned? Was the remainder of the hide still on it?
I am curious about this as well. Seems to be a lot of legitimate questions avoided in this thread and I don't think it needs to resort to name calling. I am sure everyone on the thread are stand up people but it doesn't need to get ugly with name calling. We can have a grown up discussion.
I think you did the right thing by calling the gamewarden and telling them of a potential poaching case. If that were me, I would be following up with the gamewarden if I turned into someone to get 10 points for a poacher. What was your follow up and what information did you get from them.
A couple more questions I have-
1. Why did you wait 3.5 months to post this? If it was so unethical and horrible, why not post it right away when emotions were fresh.
2. Are you at all frustrated a rifle hunter was hunting in a archery unit during archery season?
3. When did you find out it was a governor's tag or raffle tag holder and who did you hear it from? It doesn't sound like he was advertising he was the raffle tag holder to anyone.
4. The animal was shot just before dark, how far in was it and when is your best guess the meat was packed out.
5. Response to BLRMan's question.
One more silly questions I had earlier that was avoided-
If you guide for TDF, do you clean the ducks, have a hired hand clean the ducks or do you make the client clean the ducks?
Lastly, NOBODY is defending Mossback in here. Lets not confuse the hunter with the guide.
Post by: Basket Rack on January 04, 2014, 09:05:50 PM
A couple more questions I have-
1. Why did you wait 3.5 months to post this? If it was so unethical and horrible, why not post it right away when emotions were fresh.
That is the same question I had, why all this now? :dunno:
Post by: snowpack on January 04, 2014, 09:22:00 PM
Post by: haugenna on January 04, 2014, 09:24:12 PM
I'd guess in part due to raffle/gov tag threads that seem to have been brought up recently with photos. They only showed up 'recently' even though some of the animals have been dead for those same 3.5 months.
I would like to hear Cory's response to the questions.
Post by: Kuduman on January 04, 2014, 09:25:07 PM
My gut tells me that his post is a direct result of him not receiving bonus points for turning in the suspected wasting violator.
That said.... the root issue here is, if in fact wdfw investigated and found no fault with the tag holder who are we to weigh judgment upon him based on opinion or perception of another.
List time I checked our judicial system convicts people on facts not conjecture. If wdfw has no problem with him I don't either.
Post by: jackelope on January 04, 2014, 09:47:30 PM
I'd guess in part due to raffle/gov tag threads that seem to have been brought up recently with photos. They only showed up 'recently' even though some of the animals have been dead for those same 3.5 months.
Innacurate.
The auction tag bull got killed 12/22. The 2nd Klumper raffle tag bull got killed right before that. The 1st one was posted on here in September right after it got killed. The reason they've showed up recently is because they just got killed, except for the 1st Klumper bull that Cory had the experience with.
Post by: Bigtine96 on January 04, 2014, 10:14:09 PM
Beat me to it fastdam. If meat is left on the bone in 90 degree heat for a lot less than 24 hrs it is bone sour and bad, plain and simple! To argue otherwise is dishonest. Can you imagine the fly larvae on that meat :puke: If it was boned meat hanging in game bags, it might have a change but not sitting on the ground with bones in. Not picking sides in this battle just pointing out a blatantly obvious fact. Also it keeps being said that this is about ethics but waste of game IS illegal so this is most definitely a legal argument. Just out of curiosity Cory, but what shape was the carcass in? Quartered, halved, whole, boned? Was the remainder of the hide still on it?
:yeah: I agree with this 100%
How was the carcass when you first found it Cory?
Post by: ipkus on January 04, 2014, 10:18:37 PM
1.) The people that have mentioned the word slander in this thread don't know what it means, or how it applies in a court of law. Good luck with your lawsuit!
2.) There are some serious fan boys of the raffle/auction tag buyers here. You are the opposite of the jealous ones here who continually post their hate for the wealthy that buy these tags while claiming jealousy isn't the issue, as if most of them wouldn't do the same thing if they were financially able; it would be hilarious to watch you hover giddily around your 'buddy' in a restaurant in Dayton.
3.) It's amazing how many people have missed the OP's point, even after it was reposted, whether it's different than the original or not. His disappointment is in the lack of sportsmanship, and ethics. That's it.
Me? I think there are too many 'money' tags, but I don't have a problem with the concept. Having wealth, regardless of how it's been achieved, has always brought special access to all things across the world since the beginning of modern society. However, wealth doesn't free anyone from their moral and ethical responsibilities in whatever activities they partake in, and sometimes circumstances dictate they actually have a greater responsibility than the common man because of situations they end up in only because of said wealth.
It is sad to watch what hunting is slowly degrading into. Shooting trophies has always had it's place, but for an awful long time hunting was primarily about families, traditions, building relationships amongst people and with nature. More and more it looks like a high school full of kids who think they already have the world all figured out, when they really don't know sh*t from shinola. :twocents:
Post by: CoryTDF on January 05, 2014, 05:52:58 AM
as for me waiting 3 months that is for a couple reasons. the recent attention about his second bull brought this back fresh to my mind. during a conversation with a coworker it came up again. this is nothing more than a case of having something nag at you and finally having to just tell people about it.
and why do people keep bringing up the legality of the issue I never once stated he broke the law. my letter was my opinion and my opinion stands!
Post by: rosscrazyelk on January 05, 2014, 06:35:04 AM
Just out of curiosity Cory, but what shape was the carcass in? Quartered, halved, whole, boned? Was the remainder of the hide still on it?
I am curious about this as well. Seems to be a lot of legitimate questions avoided in this thread and I don't think it needs to resort to name calling. I am sure everyone on the thread are stand up people but it doesn't need to get ugly with name calling. We can have a grown up discussion.
I think you did the right thing by calling the gamewarden and telling them of a potential poaching case. If that were me, I would be following up with the gamewarden if I turned into someone to get 10 points for a poacher. What was your follow up and what information did you get from them.
A couple more questions I have-
1. Why did you wait 3.5 months to post this? If it was so unethical and horrible, why not post it right away when emotions were fresh.
2. Are you at all frustrated a rifle hunter was hunting in a archery unit during archery season?
3. When did you find out it was a governor's tag or raffle tag holder and who did you hear it from? It doesn't sound like he was advertising he was the raffle tag holder to anyone.
4. The animal was shot just before dark, how far in was it and when is your best guess the meat was packed out.
5. Response to BLRMan's question.
One more silly questions I had earlier that was avoided-
If you guide for TDF, do you clean the ducks, have a hired hand clean the ducks or do you make the client clean the ducks?
Lastly, NOBODY is defending Mossback in here. Lets not confuse the hunter with the guide.
To answer your first question from past experience no one ever answers legitimate questions on this site. Lol :chuckle:
Post by: LittleJohn on January 05, 2014, 08:07:56 AM
Post by: 300UltraMagShooter on January 05, 2014, 08:18:51 AM
and for this, he gets slammed on the internet because he didn't do it as someone else might do it?
to the man that shot the elk, congrats sir, well done.
Post by: Green broke on January 05, 2014, 11:27:30 AM
Phool you are implying litigation? If this were the a strong argument for litigation Phil Lancaster(if that's the correct name) would be a rich man just from settlements from this site. His name has been drug through the mud several times on here and NOBODY has proved (in our hw court :chuckle: ) him to be acting illegally. There are several other specific tribal guys that have been targeted onhere. It amazes me you would bring the implied threat of litigation. Just saying... It's not the players sometimes it's the game.To answer your question-
Ethical- Yes
Lazier than me- Yes
If it happened to me would I be frustrated- Yes
Would you find me complaining about it on an internet forum 3 1/2 months later- NO
He may not have been the one who caped it or even got a drop of blood on his hands. He took the animal in fair chase in accordance to Washington hunting laws.
I don't really believe that Cory is "complaining" about anything. I think he is spot on to put out there what he saw and let the people know when such events take place. Cory, or any tag holder, has every right to hunt a unit when he or she draws a tag. These high dollar guys that throw there money around are fine in doing so, but not when others are deterred from setting their own goals with a tag they rightfully earned. I don't care who you are, how much you paid for a tag, or how many guys you rented to help, every legal hunter with a tag for that unit is entitled to hunt with no questions. You obviously don't get what Cory was getting at in the beginning of this post. Its was already said by him and many others that the tag holder did nothing illegal (that he knew of). The whole point to this post is of ethics and proper care of game. I don't know why your opinion is based on legality because that is not the issue and never has been. If you are one of those that believes that the law sets whether something is ethical or not that's fine, but some of us dont see the law as the golden rule of ethics and believe that all hunters have an obligation to the game we hunt.
Fair enough, but Cory is only ASSUMING meat was lost, he does not know how it ended up, and neither does anyone else on here, correct?
If Cory has some evidence, WDFW investigation report etc. to back up his assumption then hell yes his comments would be justified, but he doesn't, and at this point all it is is slander, and likely why he removed/watered down his original post, to avoid litigation. :twocents:
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 05, 2014, 11:27:45 AM
After 6 pages I can tell you what I've learned;
1.) The people that have mentioned the word slander in this thread don't know what it means, or how it applies in a court of law. Good luck with your lawsuit!
2.) There are some serious fan boys of the raffle/auction tag buyers here. You are the opposite of the jealous ones here who continually post their hate for the wealthy that buy these tags while claiming jealousy isn't the issue, as if most of them wouldn't do the same thing if they were financially able; it would be hilarious to watch you hover giddily around your 'buddy' in a restaurant in Dayton.
3.) It's amazing how many people have missed the OP's point, even after it was reposted, whether it's different than the original or not. His disappointment is in the lack of sportsmanship, and ethics. That's it.
Me? I think there are too many 'money' tags, but I don't have a problem with the concept. Having wealth, regardless of how it's been achieved, has always brought special access to all things across the world since the beginning of modern society. However, wealth doesn't free anyone from their moral and ethical responsibilities in whatever activities they partake in, and sometimes circumstances dictate they actually have a greater responsibility than the common man because of situations they end up in only because of said wealth.
It is sad to watch what hunting is slowly degrading into. Shooting trophies has always had it's place, but for an awful long time hunting was primarily about families, traditions, building relationships amongst people and with nature. More and more it looks like a high school full of kids who think they already have the world all figured out, when they really don't know sh*t from shinola. :twocents:
SPOT ON! This is by far the most accurate post so far in this thread.
Post by: haugenna on January 05, 2014, 11:38:01 AM
After 6 pages I can tell you what I've learned;
1.) The people that have mentioned the word slander in this thread don't know what it means, or how it applies in a court of law. Good luck with your lawsuit!
2.) There are some serious fan boys of the raffle/auction tag buyers here. You are the opposite of the jealous ones here who continually post their hate for the wealthy that buy these tags while claiming jealousy isn't the issue, as if most of them wouldn't do the same thing if they were financially able; it would be hilarious to watch you hover giddily around your 'buddy' in a restaurant in Dayton.
3.) It's amazing how many people have missed the OP's point, even after it was reposted, whether it's different than the original or not. His disappointment is in the lack of sportsmanship, and ethics. That's it.
Me? I think there are too many 'money' tags, but I don't have a problem with the concept. Having wealth, regardless of how it's been achieved, has always brought special access to all things across the world since the beginning of modern society. However, wealth doesn't free anyone from their moral and ethical responsibilities in whatever activities they partake in, and sometimes circumstances dictate they actually have a greater responsibility than the common man because of situations they end up in only because of said wealth.
It is sad to watch what hunting is slowly degrading into. Shooting trophies has always had it's place, but for an awful long time hunting was primarily about families, traditions, building relationships amongst people and with nature. More and more it looks like a high school full of kids who think they already have the world all figured out, when they really don't know sh*t from shinola. :twocents:
SPOT ON! This is by far the most accurate post so far in this thread.
Don't know about most accurate but I would agree it is more accurate than the OP. Lots of unanswered questions for any of us to draw a bunch of conclusions. Still waiting on answers to the questions I posted. :dunno:
Also, I wouldn't know if I sat next to the raffle tag holder on a plane.
Post by: CoryTDF on January 05, 2014, 03:15:07 PM
Just out of curiosity Cory, but what shape was the carcass in? Quartered, halved, whole, boned? Was the remainder of the hide still on it?
I am curious about this as well. Seems to be a lot of legitimate questions avoided in this thread and I don't think it needs to resort to name calling. I am sure everyone on the thread are stand up people but it doesn't need to get ugly with name calling. We can have a grown up discussion.
I think you did the right thing by calling the gamewarden and telling them of a potential poaching case. If that were me, I would be following up with the gamewarden if I turned into someone to get 10 points for a poacher. What was your follow up and what information did you get from them.
A couple more questions I have-
1. Why did you wait 3.5 months to post this? If it was so unethical and horrible, why not post it right away when emotions were fresh.
2. Are you at all frustrated a rifle hunter was hunting in a archery unit during archery season?
3. When did you find out it was a governor's tag or raffle tag holder and who did you hear it from? It doesn't sound like he was advertising he was the raffle tag holder to anyone.
4. The animal was shot just before dark, how far in was it and when is your best guess the meat was packed out.
5. Response to BLRMan's question.
One more silly questions I had earlier that was avoided-
If you guide for TDF, do you clean the ducks, have a hired hand clean the ducks or do you make the client clean the ducks?
Lastly, NOBODY is defending Mossback in here. Lets not confuse the hunter with the guide.
to #1 All the new interest in this guys 2nd bull. I was telling this story to a coworker and it had been nagging at me for 3 months so i decided to post.
#2 No not at all he drew the tag I would love to have that tag. Little frustrated he lied to me about what he was doing after messing up my setup. The Natives had just got done with their season in the same area and they use rifles as well. I was just happy to have a bull tag in my pocket.
#3 found out 4 days after. Spoke with WDFW the day of and then word got around what had happened. I had a Reasonable suspicion that something was off so I did the responsible thing and called to tell them what I knew. Never said it was poached or not just told them what I had seen and heard and gave a description of the truck and two guys.
#4 it was not more than 2 miles and that is probably making much longer than it really was. The meat was by service roads on the top of a mountain. By most standards it was an easy pack for whoever did go in and get the meat. Whenever that was.
#5 I left that afternoon and went to make my call and nobody had been up there yet. I would say it is safe to say it was there for nearly 20 hours. The meat was still on the bone not in bags but it had been skinned as they had to do that to take the cape. I maintain that I believe the meat would have been spoiled by the time it got off the hill.
TDF is NOT a guide service and we are NOT guides. I clean my own birds and anybody that hunts with me cleans their own birds. You kill it you deal with it. Thats what my dad taught me and that is how I hunt.
This is my final post on this matter I am not going to talk in circles. I have said what I wanted to say. I know that the animal was not poached and never said it was. I had a complaint about ethics and the way this person and his guide conducted themselves. This does not now nor did it ever have anything to do with him being wealthy. If I was wealthy I would buy every tag I could as well. I am good friends with some people of means who are ethical hunters. I never had intentions of getting points as I knew there were plenty of other people who would be ahead of me had it went that way. As far as that goes though a applaud any person who reports suspicious activity or poaching regardless of weather they are looking for points or not. You have a moral obligation to report suspicious activity IMHO. To those who think I was wrong for posting this thank you for voicing your concerns. It is well within your right to say so but please respect that it is also my right to voice my own. This situation happened to me none of you and acting within my rights I voiced my opinion on the situation. Happy hunting to all and please remember that meat is the true trophy take care of it as well if not better than you do the horns.
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 05, 2014, 03:36:58 PM
Post by: Eli346 on January 05, 2014, 05:15:37 PM
Post by: jackelope on January 05, 2014, 06:56:38 PM
:yeah: You made an observation and stated your opinion. The thread was taken sideways by those that enjoy making assumptions and declaring the oblivious. Thanks for the post Cory.
Isn't everyone on both sides of this thread making assumptions? Really...
Post by: DBLDWN on January 05, 2014, 07:49:43 PM
Post by: Jonathan_S on January 06, 2014, 04:13:36 PM
:yeah: You made an observation and stated your opinion. The thread was taken sideways by those that enjoy making assumptions and declaring the oblivious. Thanks for the post Cory.
Isn't everyone on both sides of this thread making assumptions? Really...
:yeah:
My original response to this thread was ??? because I didn't understand a lot of what Cory talked about, I didn't disagree with a single thing he said. I said I'd like to hear both sides of the story, meaning I would like to know eveyrthing that happened. Then I (along with others) were told that we were defending Mossback because we wanted to know more.
I don't approve of that "Guide Service" and they stink to high heaven but that doesn't mean I can't be curious about the rest of the story. A lot of posters in this thread didn't even see the original post which was much more confusing. Most of the polarization of this thread is due to people who weren't involved at all and made aimless accusations that were - at best - loosely correlated.
Post by: LOTG on January 08, 2014, 03:04:06 PM
Post by: Woodchuck on January 08, 2014, 03:12:47 PM
Post by: h20hunter on January 08, 2014, 03:14:13 PM
I see alot of accusations and jumping to the gun here.... You were a big time supporter in the bull killed by Jim Eggart and we all know there was alot more to the story then what the newspapers said, and eastmans...
I think LOTG is not your average pilgrim.
Post by: idahohuntr on January 08, 2014, 03:26:14 PM
I would love to hear what you have to say. Feel free to PM me if you like.:yeah:
Post by: Curly on January 08, 2014, 03:31:21 PM
I would have called WDFW too if I found that someone had left meat like that in those temps. :o
Post by: LOTG on January 08, 2014, 04:12:45 PM
Post by: Jonathan_S on January 08, 2014, 05:44:37 PM
I see alot of accusations and jumping to the gun here.... You were a big time supporter in the bull killed by Jim Eggart and we all know there was alot more to the story then what the newspapers said, and eastmans...
I think LOTG is not your average pilgrim.
Agreed, I hope we see more.
Post by: PA BEN on January 09, 2014, 03:52:02 PM
huntnphool is a stand up guy. Met him when he and I drew our Washington moose tags for 49 unit. Nice guy and would give you the shirt off his back. He is entitled to his opinion just like the rest of us. :tup: He hunted hard and passed on bulls that the rest of would have shot the first day.Oh and you want to comment on the name calling? I have watched you belittle forum members with smart ass comments for over a year. Its called karma bro. Everybody has dealt with your *censored*, if you can't take it, then don't give it.You hit the nail on the head Dakota !!!! Fool's one of those guys that lives through tag holders vicariously!! Probly has a new hunting partner every year!! :chuckle: