Post by: gfull on January 03, 2014, 11:00:02 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/01/03/obama-administration-proposes-new-executive-actions-on-gun-background-checks/ (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/01/03/obama-administration-proposes-new-executive-actions-on-gun-background-checks/)
Post by: csaaphill on January 04, 2014, 12:22:53 AM
*profanity removed*
Post by: stevemiller on January 04, 2014, 12:44:35 AM
Post by: washelkhunter on January 04, 2014, 05:41:40 AM
Post by: rbinhood on January 04, 2014, 08:00:06 AM
Post by: Expedition Scout on January 04, 2014, 08:29:43 AM
I think the intent of the executive orders is to make it tougher for people with mental health issues to get guns. If you look at many of the mass shootings that have occurred in the last five years, many have involved people with significant mental health issues. Even the NRA has suggested that better screening and background checks would be a benefit.
OK, but how many of them purchased the guns over the counter?
Post by: rbinhood on January 04, 2014, 08:41:26 AM
http://www.publicintegrity.org/2011/01/11/2208/tucson-shooter-was-troubled-could-still-buy-gun (http://www.publicintegrity.org/2011/01/11/2208/tucson-shooter-was-troubled-could-still-buy-gun)
Just two of many examples...
Post by: snowpack on January 04, 2014, 08:58:54 AM
Post by: Expedition Scout on January 04, 2014, 09:04:37 AM
In a world of gun control, and yes increased background checks is a form of gun control, you will continue to reduce the amount of weapons on the streets and homes within the legal community. IMO, if a lawful armed individual was present in any of these cases, they would have been wholly different in outcome. We should be working on putting more weapons in more hands with proper training.
Bottom line is people who intend to kill will find a way! Gun, Knife, Rock, doesn't matter. But look at the difference between the other mass shootings and the new Aurora Colorado incident, you put a trained individual in close proximity to the active shooter, you will end the situation a lot faster, one way or the other. This fact was not put all over the news.
That is not posted to take away from the tragedy, my heart goes out to the parents and community, but I don't think further gun restrictions are going to change the issue.
My wife lived through a mass shooting and the one thing she prayed for was someone with a gun to end the madness. Not how our background check system had failed us.
She is now a responsibility/trained armed citizen.
Post by: xd2005 on January 04, 2014, 09:38:58 AM
Granted, csaaphill's comments are a given, considering his position that there should be absolutely no limits on types of firearms or who should possess them.
And Wash, there's nothing for "We the People" to follow in regards to these Executive Orders, so your comment makes absolutely no sense.
A year ago, everyone said how there should be no new laws, simply stronger enforcement of existing ones, including improvements to ensure the mentally ill were not able to obtain firearms. That is all this does, helps make it more difficult for the mentally ill to get firearms. Granted, I can understand why that would concern a few on here...
As for chasing down those that attempted to purchase but were denied, sure, we can chase them. But why not focus on those that were not denied and able to purchase? Yes, those denied could have obtained elsewhere, but those not denied needed no further steps. Again, these are people that do not legally qualify for firearms purchases, but were able to make them regardless because information was lacking in the system. This helps solve that problem.
And the argument that "people who intend to kill will find a way" is a bit old and too easily argued against. If Adam attacked an elementary school with rocks and knives, I guarantee the results would not have been the same. Small, intimate homicides can surely be carried out with alternative, legal weapons very easily. But mass casualty attacks are nowhere near as simple to conduct with these alternative weapons. There is a reason firearms are used. They are much faster and allow much more distance from an adversary. In fact, if you recall, at virtually the same time as the Sandy Hook incident, a knife attack occurred in China at a school. There, there were something like 23 injuries, no deaths. Tragic, of course, but you aren't going to convince me that a knife is a good alternative weapon in a mass attack.
Post by: Expedition Scout on January 04, 2014, 11:31:39 AM
I am suggesting that the way to fight fire is with fire. My point is you can't stop bad things from happening in this world no matter what the law. The only thing left at the end of the day is to be prepared to protect yourself when bad things happen.
This country was founded on Common Law: Two laws (Do all you have agreed to do) and (Do not encroach on other persons or their property). This is what everything was based on. All laws created needed to follow Common Law. Now we ignore Common Law and use Political Law or majority rules. The issue everyone needs to understand with majority rules, is what happens when the majority is against you? We can sit here and say that we should not let this guy or that guy have a weapon because of what ever the reason, because we are not the ones that reason effects. But once the president is set, that majority rules who can and who can't, isn't there a fear that one day the majority will rule against you?
It is already illegal to comment murder, however we can kill someone in self defense. Common Law (Do not encroach...) Our rights and liberties were defined and protected by Common Law. We should use the law that is already there to deal with it. :twocents:
Post by: bearpaw on January 04, 2014, 11:36:39 AM
Post by: rbinhood on January 04, 2014, 12:55:26 PM
Obama has issued less executive orders than any modern president:
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/01/obama-executive-orders-guns.html (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/01/obama-executive-orders-guns.html)
Post by: brush hunter on January 04, 2014, 01:27:09 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on January 04, 2014, 01:38:25 PM
Post by: Crunchy on January 04, 2014, 01:57:52 PM
During the 8 years he was in office, George W. Bush issued 293 executive orders.
Obama has issued less executive orders than any modern president:
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/01/obama-executive-orders-guns.html (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/01/obama-executive-orders-guns.html)
:yeah:
Post by: xd2005 on January 04, 2014, 02:03:04 PM
Another commie move by our corrupt government to satisfy THEIR wants, not ours. Like Bearpaw said, overstepping...............
Seems you need to look up communism.
And when you say "not ours," I don't know who you are referring to, but to be clear, that does not include me. I'm ok not giving felons or mentally ill firearms.
Post by: buckfvr on January 04, 2014, 02:09:46 PM
Post by: xd2005 on January 04, 2014, 02:14:32 PM
SO xd, what exactly will this executive order do and how will it directly help ?
Ummm...there's a link to an article at the beginning of the thread, and many more out there to read.
Post by: buckfvr on January 04, 2014, 02:24:40 PM
I for one have zero faith or trust in this administration to do as they say for the reasons they give. To me it appears to be agenda driven and a stepping stone.
None of us want mental patients as gun owners...none of us want mass shooting crimes. However, in light of their agendas, they cant be trusted. EVER
Post by: CAMPMEAT on January 04, 2014, 02:25:49 PM
Another commie move by our corrupt government to satisfy THEIR wants, not ours. Like Bearpaw said, overstepping...............
Seems you need to look up communism.
And when you say "not ours," I don't know who you are referring to, but to be clear, that does not include me. I'm ok not giving felons or mentally ill firearms.
............a progressive statement if I've ever read one.
Post by: xd2005 on January 04, 2014, 02:38:13 PM
Another commie move by our corrupt government to satisfy THEIR wants, not ours. Like Bearpaw said, overstepping...............
Seems you need to look up communism.
And when you say "not ours," I don't know who you are referring to, but to be clear, that does not include me. I'm ok not giving felons or mentally ill firearms.
............a progressive statement if I've ever read one.
Clearly your understanding of communism is on par with your understanding of progressivism. :bash:
Post by: CAMPMEAT on January 04, 2014, 03:07:34 PM
Post by: xd2005 on January 04, 2014, 03:21:39 PM
Look up www.commieblast.com (http://www.commieblast.com) for some enlightenment.
:chuckle:
Post by: bearpaw on January 04, 2014, 04:15:26 PM
Leave it to Obama supporters to support their man no matter what he does, he could issue an executive order to abolish the Constitution and Bill od Rights and Obama supporters would say it was for the common good.
This is exactly how we ended up with the healthcare nightmare, Obama said it wasn't going to cost more, many people argued, but Obama supporters pushed it through anyway. Now insurance costs are increasing more than ever before and nobody is signing up except the people who will get free insurance. At the same time companies are dropping employees and/or insurance on employees. :bash:
Fast & Furious, Benghazi, the list goes on. The man simply is not capable of making good well thought out workable decisions or policies. :twocents:
Even though I am not a huge supporter of Bush, I have to remind the Obama supporters that this has nothing to do with Bush! :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: buckfvr on January 04, 2014, 04:31:51 PM
Post by: xd2005 on January 04, 2014, 04:33:04 PM
With that said, Obama could issue an Executive Order saying the 2nd amendment is the law of the land and should not be argued any further, or better yet, that 1+1=2 and I am sure most the people here would argue that he's wrong. I just wish people would think about things rather than knee jerk react because they saw Obama, gun, and Executive Order in the same sentence.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on January 04, 2014, 05:07:29 PM
FYI, I dislike the lazy republican party too. They are just as worthless for inaction and standing by with their thumbs in a strategic place where they can't see them.
Post by: stevemiller on January 04, 2014, 06:54:12 PM
I guess I shouldn't be surprised by the comments on here...Sorry but after reading this I feel a reminder that 9/11 was carried out with the use of box (knives) and not guns.So you see even you have to agree mass killings can still be carried out with even the crudest of weapons. :twocents: We cannot outlaw intelligence nore stupidity so there will always be a way for these people to carry out these horrific acts. :tup:
Granted, csaaphill's comments are a given, considering his position that there should be absolutely no limits on types of firearms or who should possess them.
And Wash, there's nothing for "We the People" to follow in regards to these Executive Orders, so your comment makes absolutely no sense.
A year ago, everyone said how there should be no new laws, simply stronger enforcement of existing ones, including improvements to ensure the mentally ill were not able to obtain firearms. That is all this does, helps make it more difficult for the mentally ill to get firearms. Granted, I can understand why that would concern a few on here...
As for chasing down those that attempted to purchase but were denied, sure, we can chase them. But why not focus on those that were not denied and able to purchase? Yes, those denied could have obtained elsewhere, but those not denied needed no further steps. Again, these are people that do not legally qualify for firearms purchases, but were able to make them regardless because information was lacking in the system. This helps solve that problem.
And the argument that "people who intend to kill will find a way" is a bit old and too easily argued against. If Adam attacked an elementary school with rocks and knives, I guarantee the results would not have been the same. Small, intimate homicides can surely be carried out with alternative, legal weapons very easily. But mass casualty attacks are nowhere near as simple to conduct with these alternative weapons. There is a reason firearms are used. They are much faster and allow much more distance from an adversary. In fact, if you recall, at virtually the same time as the Sandy Hook incident, a knife attack occurred in China at a school. There, there were something like 23 injuries, no deaths. Tragic, of course, but you aren't going to convince me that a knife is a good alternative weapon in a mass attack.
Post by: snowpack on January 04, 2014, 07:02:20 PM
Post by: csaaphill on January 05, 2014, 02:31:45 AM
it will also if someone like that California women who had her home raided and guns confiscated for her being forced into a mental ward for 3-4 days when she had a bad reaction to some medication she was on. All because of some side effect she had which could happen to anyone. I don't' think she's gotten her rights back either.
Using Executive orders that curtail the Bill of rights or side step US or congress is a step to a dictatorship!!!!!!!!!
People are lining up in CT to register fully lawfully owned guns before any law came into effect which is yes very unconstituional should not do so and should protest.
People beleive for some reason that as long as you don't take it from them unless it violates some law, your still living within the intentions of the bill of rights and that is wrong wrong wrong your wrong for thinking that way.
Infringing is infringing and NO regulated has nothing to do with Gov CTRL it has more to do with beign well armed and well trained well regulated means well oiled. It never fails to amaze me how people just because of their Utopian agenda can ignore the facts of what our Forefathers warned us about.
How the heck do you call jumping through hoops to keep a GOD given right, or GOD aclaimed, or self aclaimed what have you...
Liberty that is not liberty it is tyranny in its worst!
by definition an infringment is an inroad: Meaning a law, Ordinance, anything that makes you jump through hoops to get,keep something that you have a right to own in the first place. It's just like the word abridged in the 1st amendment it shortens the meaning of freedom of speach!!!!111 :bash: :bash: :bash: :twocents:
Post by: rbinhood on January 05, 2014, 06:05:48 AM
That's not an insult, but a point of fact. The stock market has set records in the last year, housing starts are up, home sales are rebounding, and there has been an upsurge in jobs and employment. Evidence of the inability to make good decisions and bad policy?
Post by: Pygmy on January 05, 2014, 07:28:51 AM
Sorry but after reading this I feel a reminder that 9/11 was carried out with the use of box (knives) and not guns.So you see even you have to agree mass killings can still be carried out with even the crudest of weapons. :twocents: We cannot outlaw intelligence nore stupidity so there will always be a way for these people to carry out these horrific acts. :tup:
All of the evidence shows that nine eleven was ochestrated by our own government.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsRm8M-qOjQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsRm8M-qOjQ)
Post by: Knocker of rocks on January 05, 2014, 08:00:27 AM
All of the evidence shows that nine eleven was ochestrated by our own government.
Hardly
Post by: Special T on January 05, 2014, 08:10:03 AM
To quote a colloquial term, "It's the economy, stupid."
That's not an insult, but a point of fact. The stock market has set records in the last year, housing starts are up, home sales are rebounding, and there has been an upsurge in jobs and employment. Evidence of the inability to make good decisions and bad policy?
The stock market is up because Bonds don't produce returns and is a hedge against inflation compared to bonds, home sales and refinancing mortgages are up because of the "free $" policy we have a the Fed reserve. The "unemployment rate" is going down but that is a paper trick, there are less people employed today than 8-10 years ago and the population has grown in that time.
TRUST is the key to IF we think the President is doing good. Many Liberals had a problem with the Patriot ACT, I did not because a president I trusted was in charge. My self and many others are fearful at worst and skeptical at least of things Obama does because we do NOT Trust him. Our rights are being lost due to BOTH parties because the Road to Hell is Paved With Good Intentions. EVERY time a politician does some thing we must be vigilant and ask ourselves if the Bill or EO provides a way to strip us of our rights.
The DEVIL is always in the details, and there are NO details in this article. THAT scares me the most. Decisions made by unaccountable bureaucrats is the fastest way for ALL Americans to lose their rights and freedoms regardless of our political leanings.
Post by: stevemiller on January 05, 2014, 01:47:02 PM
What does this statement have to do with what i stated?It wasnt guns,AT ALLSorry but after reading this I feel a reminder that 9/11 was carried out with the use of box (knives) and not guns.So you see even you have to agree mass killings can still be carried out with even the crudest of weapons. :twocents: We cannot outlaw intelligence nore stupidity so there will always be a way for these people to carry out these horrific acts. :tup:
All of the evidence shows that nine eleven was ochestrated by our own government.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsRm8M-qOjQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsRm8M-qOjQ)
Post by: Crunchy on January 05, 2014, 02:25:04 PM
Sorry but after reading this I feel a reminder that 9/11 was carried out with the use of box (knives) and not guns.So you see even you have to agree mass killings can still be carried out with even the crudest of weapons. :twocents: We cannot outlaw intelligence nore stupidity so there will always be a way for these people to carry out these horrific acts. :tup:
All of the evidence shows that nine eleven was ochestrated by our own government.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsRm8M-qOjQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsRm8M-qOjQ)
If you believe that I have some oceanfront property to sell you in Utah.
Post by: csaaphill on January 05, 2014, 05:19:52 PM
:yeah:Sorry but after reading this I feel a reminder that 9/11 was carried out with the use of box (knives) and not guns.So you see even you have to agree mass killings can still be carried out with even the crudest of weapons. :twocents: We cannot outlaw intelligence nore stupidity so there will always be a way for these people to carry out these horrific acts. :tup:
All of the evidence shows that nine eleven was ochestrated by our own government.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsRm8M-qOjQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsRm8M-qOjQ)
even if not completly they knew and could of prevented it but didnt' all one has to do is know prophecy to see the whole truth that is coming not this oh it's just coincidence crap!