Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: WoodlandShooter on January 06, 2014, 10:07:35 AM

Title: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: WoodlandShooter on January 06, 2014, 10:07:35 AM: So, I have a "spare" RRA A4 carbine in the safe. I have been thinking of tweaking it a little. my idea is a bit of a hodge podge between a Varmit, Mk-12 SPR, three-gunner...more of a short, solid, mid range support rifle than anything

The build would be based around a 77 Grain OTM bullet at ~ 2650-2700 FPS. Max range is about 700 yards.

As I am not too worried about weight, I am considering a 16" 1/8 twist Bull Barrel...just not sure whos to get... I do want it to have a mid length gas system tho.

I also want a contiguous top rail so I can run series optics if necessary. SO either thinking a PRI fore-end with rail, or a VLTOR CASV, or a POF M-Rail...looking for recommendations here. I do want a full rifle length front end

Stock could be anything...but I do like the Mag Pul PRS I have on the 243WSSM...it is a little heavy, but it would ballance out the Bull Barrel.

Primary optic would be a 30mm "something" Preferrably variable 2.5-10 x 32...nothing too crazy...bit I do want it in Mills, and possibly have a reticle to at least -9 mills of drop it does not need to have adjustable turrets.

Back up irons are already set...will have Knights Armament 45 degree offset flip ups.
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: Jim the Plumber on January 06, 2014, 11:23:24 AM: Might consider a 18" SS 8 twist on the mid gas. I like a little more length and a little less weight, so an 18" barrel in a mid weight profile is a better balance.
Take a look at Seekins rails/ hand guards. Great product and enough options to fit most tastes/ needs: http://www.seekinsprecision.com/ (http://www.seekinsprecision.com/)
Nightforce has your scope: http://nightforceoptics.com/compacts/2-5-10x32-nxs-compact-riflescope/ (http://nightforceoptics.com/compacts/2-5-10x32-nxs-compact-riflescope/)
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on January 06, 2014, 12:01:42 PM: I'm a big fan of PRI stuff. When I built my 6mmx6.8 SPC AR, I used a lot of their stuff. In fact, back when I got my 6.8 SPC, the word was that the only mags that functioned reliably in the 6.8's were PRI mags, so that's what I got. Good company, fast shipping, etc. :tup:
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: WoodlandShooter on January 06, 2014, 01:37:58 PM: Might drop the Bull Barrel Requirement.

Now looking at a Lilja Recce Barrel and a Krieger Recce barrel..subtile differences...

Lilja: 1/8 twist, and carbine length gas $475

Kreiger: 1/7.7 twist, mid length gas $575
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: JLR on January 06, 2014, 04:06:19 PM: Quote from: Jim the Plumber on January 06, 2014, 11:23:24 AM
Might consider a 18" SS 8 twist on the mid gas. I like a little more length and a little less weight, so an 18" barrel in a mid weight profile is a better balance.
Take a look at Seekins rails/ hand guards. Great product and enough options to fit most tastes/ needs: http://www.seekinsprecision.com/ (http://www.seekinsprecision.com/)
Nightforce has your scope: http://nightforceoptics.com/compacts/2-5-10x32-nxs-compact-riflescope/ (http://nightforceoptics.com/compacts/2-5-10x32-nxs-compact-riflescope/)

I'll 2nd what JTP has said with the exception that I'd run an 18" with a rifle length gas system. For a multipurpose rifle, the Seekins SP3R handguard can't be beat. For a scope, take a look at the Vortex 2.5-10 along with the Nightforce as it's a really nice little scope.
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 06, 2014, 05:41:09 PM: 18" mid weight, rifle length gas, 8 twist. Might want to check out the Rainier Arms Ultra Match SPR barrel.

Noveske NSR or a MI SSK Key Mod.

Plenty of 2.5-10's to choose from.
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: Fuzzy on January 07, 2014, 06:55:41 AM: Im going to echo what JTP and JLR said i think 18" barrel would be my choice. I and i vote Seekins stuff as well, great products and a nice guy as well. As far as scope i would look into SWFA 3-15x42, good glass and has 10 mils down in the reticle. Not a bad price either.
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: WoodlandShooter on January 07, 2014, 08:53:54 AM: I ran some ballistics on a 77 grain SMK, (G1 BC = 0.362) and it only gives about 19 yards of extra supersonic range on a standard day...

Assumptions...

18" barrel would have a MV of 2700, therefore at 688 yards, it hits 1195 FPS
16" barrel would have a MV of 2650, therefore at 669 yards, it hits 1196 FPS

not sure the extra 2" is really worth anything..

What i am hung up on is barrel profile...I would like to wring as much accuracy as I can out of it..so I am torn between a full bull barrel and a turned down (Recce) barrel
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on January 07, 2014, 09:04:24 AM: A bull barrel is good for shot-after-shot accuracy at a bench, but for one or two accurate shots in a hunting situation, it's not worth lugging that much extra weight. I've shot my standard weight ARs until I couldn't hold my hand on the hot barrel, and saw no difference in accuracy... :twocents:
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: WoodlandShooter on January 07, 2014, 09:30:18 AM: not too worried about weight. My 270 weighs 14 pounds wet....so a 10 pound AR would feel like a feather.

My next question...

Is it even possible to get an AR to shoot under 0.5 MOA??? My 243 WSSM is close, but it is an off the shelf upper so I think it is possible...

Yes, I want something that is very accurate shot after shot. I also want it to be "usefull".

I dont need a Mk12 clone. I also may use Hornady 75gr BTHP's at 2600. That gets a carbine to just over 700 yards of supersonic range

anyone here have experience with a RRA Bull Barrel??
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on January 07, 2014, 09:47:58 AM: I hefted a RRA rifle with a Bull Barrel once, and it was a boat anchor. But then, I'm pretty sensitive to weight. If you aren't, go for it! I took my RRA Coyote Rifle out to test it, and all I had was a 1-3 Power CQB optic, and at 100 yards all I could do was superimpose the circle-dot reticle on the 8" bullseye target, and I was getting 1/2" groups. With a fine crosshair target scope it would have done better! :tup:
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: Jim the Plumber on January 07, 2014, 10:31:49 AM: AR @ 1/2 MOA is doable. Quality barrel, trigger, optics will get you there. Balance, ease of swing, point ability tend to favor the 18" medium weight.
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: WoodlandShooter on January 07, 2014, 10:53:17 AM: or, I may just stick with the barrel (16" heavy) that is on it...spend the money on a decent optic and trigger instead.
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: Craig on January 07, 2014, 11:19:01 AM: 5 shots 100 yards. Didn't measure it but its tight. 18" Rainier arms Match barrel. Next one will have a ultra match barrel. It's all about the trigger. Geissele triggers are awesome.

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv411%2Ftruck1%2Fgroup_zps53aab57c.jpg&hash=fe2fc67bab1211ecafc2823d4e5a43c413766dcf) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/truck1/media/group_zps53aab57c.jpg.html)
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on January 07, 2014, 11:19:46 AM: Quote from: WoodlandShooter on January 07, 2014, 10:53:17 AM
or, I may just stick with the barrel (16" heavy) that is on it...spend the money on a decent optic and trigger instead.

An RRA 2-stage NM trigger or a Timney Trigger will go a long ways to getting your AR more accurate. You'd be surprised at the difference!
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: WoodlandShooter on January 07, 2014, 12:31:57 PM: Agreed!!!

I have a Timney in my 6.8 SPC and a Chip McCormick in my 243WSSM...both shoot real nice.
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: WoodlandShooter on January 07, 2014, 01:39:14 PM: Well, looks like the POF and Hoagan rails do not work with a standard flat top receiver.

Is there anyother manufacturer that makes a system like PRI or VLTOR that connects the upper reciever to the handguard via a single contiguous rail???
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: WoodlandShooter on January 07, 2014, 04:23:31 PM: Thinking of using the 15" PRI Round Handguard topped with the Rifle Length Top Rail
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 07, 2014, 06:03:25 PM: 1/2 MOA should be the norm for a quality barrel. I've had 100.00 Mod1 barrels consistently shoot half MOA.

Here are some 200 yard groups from a 16" ", 9 twist, Mod1 Sales barrel I purchase from a police officer in Oregon used.

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2Fphoto-57_zpscefd9650.jpg&hash=1024fc43c01a8b204d305c5a69bf4c706de9817b) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/photo-57_zpscefd9650.jpg.html)

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FIMG_0762-1_zps6d931ee6.jpg&hash=38c2d90e139c43abc0e43273c4ce5e2a871243ba) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/IMG_0762-1_zps6d931ee6.jpg.html)
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 07, 2014, 09:27:31 PM: Quote from: Craig on January 07, 2014, 11:19:01 AM
5 shots 100 yards. Didn't measure it but its tight. 18" Rainier arms Match barrel. Next one will have a ultra match barrel. It's all about the trigger. Geissele triggers are awesome.

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv411%2Ftruck1%2Fgroup_zps53aab57c.jpg&hash=fe2fc67bab1211ecafc2823d4e5a43c413766dcf) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/truck1/media/group_zps53aab57c.jpg.html)

I've been wanting to pick up a Rainier Ultra Match 18" SPR barrel. I kept checking back but they go quick. I have it on "Notification" with them now.
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: WoodlandShooter on January 08, 2014, 08:46:25 AM: Yeah, I know I need to spend the money on a barrel. It's just hard to cough it up for something that cant "legally" fill the freezer....

I do want to keep at 16"

I have been looking over the Lilja Recon barrel drawing a little. I may just bite the bullet on one.
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on January 08, 2014, 09:12:59 AM: If Big Game hunting is a concern, don't go below .243/6mm. Plenty of choices in 6mm, 6.5, 6.8, that shoot like a .223 and are economical to reload. :twocents:
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: WoodlandShooter on January 08, 2014, 09:35:30 AM: already have AR's in 6.8 and 243WSSM.
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: WoodlandShooter on January 21, 2014, 10:43:53 AM: had some fun today....this is kinda what I am thinkin for this rifle
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: traildigger on January 21, 2014, 05:50:32 PM: WoodlandShooter, I have an ad in the classifieds section you may want to check out......just sayin :tup:

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,145748.0.html (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,145748.0.html)
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on January 21, 2014, 06:20:13 PM: Quote from: WoodlandShooter on January 21, 2014, 10:43:53 AM
had some fun today....this is kinda what I am thinkin for this rifle

Too busy...besides, who's going to lug it around for you? :chuckle: :chuckle:
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: WoodlandShooter on January 22, 2014, 07:56:18 AM: Quote from: traildigger on January 21, 2014, 05:50:32 PM
WoodlandShooter, I have an ad in the classifieds section you may want to check out......just sayin :tup:

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,145748.0.html (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,145748.0.html)

thanks, but the twist is not fast enough
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: traildigger on January 22, 2014, 09:11:19 AM: No worries. Figured I would toss it out there anyway. Good luck with your build, and don't forget pics when it's done!
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: WoodlandShooter on January 22, 2014, 09:59:14 AM: Pics??

hmm with my luck, I will loose it in a fishing accident before I get a chance to take any pics of it
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: traildigger on January 22, 2014, 10:16:25 AM: Boating accidents......very common and always frustrating!! I hate it when that happens.
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: Special T on January 22, 2014, 11:01:29 AM: I think its the best flash supressor on the market, and made here in WA.

B.E. Meyers: Flash Hiders (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATqIgcGVfto#ws)
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on January 22, 2014, 12:47:58 PM: Quote from: Special T on January 22, 2014, 11:01:29 AM
I think its the best flash supressor on the market, and made here in WA.

B.E. Meyers: Flash Hiders (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATqIgcGVfto#ws)

Quite impressive. Looks like a variation of the Smith Vortex flash hider, which I really like... :tup:
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: Special T on January 22, 2014, 01:18:50 PM: I have had it fired 2 feet from my face and not seen a flash at night.
Title: Re: AR Build, Please comment
Post by: WoodlandShooter on January 22, 2014, 02:09:31 PM: got a smith vortex sitting on the bench...just waiting