Post by: bigtex on January 19, 2014, 10:56:00 PM
So the question is, where does the funding that is lost with this pass come from?
Under the bill a portion of the fees that are collected by county auditors and the secretary of state for things such as copies and reporting documents will move from being given to the state heritage center to the Recreation Pass Account.
The bill would take effect January 1, 2015 and no refunds will be issued for those that held a valid Discover Pass at that time.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=6293&year=2013 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=6293&year=2013)
Post by: Curly on January 20, 2014, 07:13:09 AM
I'd rather see a Bill that simply removed the need for the pass on DNR land except for parking at trailheads and DNR campgrounds. :twocents:
Post by: Curly on January 20, 2014, 12:33:09 PM
Post by: JLS on January 20, 2014, 12:45:58 PM
Why eliminate the WDFW pass? That is the main problem I have with this bill. I like the fact that those people that use the boat ramps that are just there skiing or jetskiing or just boating have to pay something toward the facilities. How is WDFW supposed to fund those facilities if they get rid of the WDFW pass? They will likely increase the fishing/hunting license fees. :twocents:
:yeah:
Post by: Special T on January 20, 2014, 01:48:22 PM
Post by: buckfvr on January 20, 2014, 02:20:17 PM
I agree its the only way to make the majority of the users pay because not all are licensed to hunt and fish.
HOWEVER.........if you make people pay, we should not have to put up with over flowing, full to the seat crappers, or locked toilets,.........and run down hazardous boat ramps......and garbage in the fire pits.....I know they have started taking pics of messes left in campgrounds to go along with pics of vehicles parked in the same spots so they can send out tickets once they leave all their garbage, so lets keep things clean and respectable.
Post by: trophyhunt on January 20, 2014, 02:29:47 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 20, 2014, 02:35:46 PM
Post by: washelkhunter on January 20, 2014, 02:41:02 PM
Post by: Special T on January 20, 2014, 03:06:30 PM
Post by: bigtex on January 20, 2014, 05:37:16 PM
Post by: NoBark on January 20, 2014, 05:43:27 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on January 20, 2014, 06:26:07 PM
People should pay for improved facilities to include camp grounds, restrooms, trail heads, and boat ramps.............
I agree its the only way to make the majority of the users pay because not all are licensed to hunt and fish.
HOWEVER.........if you make people pay, we should not have to put up with over flowing, full to the seat crappers, or locked toilets,.........and run down hazardous boat ramps......and garbage in the fire pits.....I know they have started taking pics of messes left in campgrounds to go along with pics of vehicles parked in the same spots so they can send out tickets once they leave all their garbage, so lets keep things clean and respectable.
..............and, not allowing ORV's into campgrounds in the Loomis areas by the manager of the WDFW out of Loomis.
Post by: jstone on January 20, 2014, 06:37:22 PM
Post by: bigtex on January 22, 2014, 10:22:38 AM
Post by: fireweed on January 23, 2014, 09:23:25 AM
--> enforcements, administration, and exemption carve-outs eat up too much of the DP money to start with. Imagine the costs of FULL enforcement of the DP across the state.
--> Land access permits hurt tourism to Washington state. Maybe for starters public campgrounds could charge the same hotel/motel tax that private campgrounds must, with that funding going to public facilities.
--> having to pay to access land hurts low income people most
-->paying for access keeps people indoors at a time when families need to get outdoors and exercise.
-->The "hassle factor" adds up for outdoor recreation and ultimately reduces participation across the board.
making the DP optional as a supporter, and still have the marketing angle with local businesses, may not bring in as much, but it would be better in the long run.
Post by: bigtex on January 23, 2014, 09:27:38 AM
Post by: csaaphill on January 26, 2014, 07:21:48 PM
Post by: Duckwacker on February 05, 2014, 03:30:53 AM
Post by: rasbo on February 05, 2014, 03:54:13 AM
I will say this, 1 or 2 WDFW Officer positions are completely funded by Discover Pass funding. So if the pass went away WDFW would essentially lose 1 or 2 Officer positions unless funding is given to them in some other way. I don't know how many DNR Officers are paid by Discover Pass funds. I am not saying this to say the DP is a good program, but WDFW is getting money from it and if you were to just completely eliminate it there would be some repercussions.not really on topic but take those two positions that could be lost and put them on litter enforcement,and raise the fine for littering so high folks will pick it up..seems there is no place I can go that Im not picking up after someone...
Post by: Humptulips on February 05, 2014, 08:53:28 PM
IMO this is a back door attempt to do away with the WDFW pass that you get as a part of your lic fee. IF they take the cost away and the ability to get your WDFW they can come back and make EVERYONE pay including hunters for a pass... I'm a skeptic because i have very little trust for our representatives actually passing good law.
I also am smelling a rat. What is the point of a voluntary Discover Pass? Nobody will pay for one. Might as well do away with it unless you have plans to charge for it in the future and by then the WDFW Pass is history and everbody has to buy one.
I actually think the Discover Pass is a good idea. It just should only be required at improved facilities not general land access.
Post by: bigtex on February 05, 2014, 09:00:14 PM
Like I said, the Discover Pass will simply be the donation location for DNR, WDFW, and Parks. People donate cash to DNR, WDFW, and Parks, and if this bill passes this is essentially a route of donation.IMO this is a back door attempt to do away with the WDFW pass that you get as a part of your lic fee. IF they take the cost away and the ability to get your WDFW they can come back and make EVERYONE pay including hunters for a pass... I'm a skeptic because i have very little trust for our representatives actually passing good law.I also am smelling a rat. What is the point of a voluntary Discover Pass? Nobody will pay for one. Might as well do away with it unless you have plans to charge for it in the future and by then the WDFW Pass is history and everbody has to buy one.
If you've ever purchased a hunting/fishing license online you notice you can donate to youth hunting/fishing, this is very similar. You purchase a Discover Pass basically to show you donated to the agencies.
Post by: bearpaw on February 05, 2014, 09:35:15 PM
Lay off a couple managers and we can afford the officers.
Post by: buckfvr on February 05, 2014, 09:36:26 PM
I will say this, 1 or 2 WDFW Officer positions are completely funded by Discover Pass funding. So if the pass went away WDFW would essentially lose 1 or 2 Officer positions unless funding is given to them in some other way. I don't know how many DNR Officers are paid by Discover Pass funds. I am not saying this to say the DP is a good program, but WDFW is getting money from it and if you were to just completely eliminate it there would be some repercussions.not really on topic but take those two positions that could be lost and put them on litter enforcement,and raise the fine for littering so high folks will pick it up..seems there is no place I can go that Im not picking up after someone...
That is to say once wdfw got the discover pass monies, they went out and bought two new wdfw officers.........really ?????I hope thats not how they work, I mean really ?????
Post by: bigtex on February 05, 2014, 10:04:29 PM
That is how government funding works. For the state you almost always have to tie new positions/funding to a problem/task/etc. you don't just say "we want more money/officers because."That is to say once wdfw got the discover pass monies, they went out and bought two new wdfw officers.........really ?????I hope thats not how they work, I mean really ?????I will say this, 1 or 2 WDFW Officer positions are completely funded by Discover Pass funding. So if the pass went away WDFW would essentially lose 1 or 2 Officer positions unless funding is given to them in some other way. I don't know how many DNR Officers are paid by Discover Pass funds. I am not saying this to say the DP is a good program, but WDFW is getting money from it and if you were to just completely eliminate it there would be some repercussions.not really on topic but take those two positions that could be lost and put them on litter enforcement,and raise the fine for littering so high folks will pick it up..seems there is no place I can go that Im not picking up after someone...
WDFW gets 8% of proceeds from the Discover Pass sales and fines. And yes those proceeds are going to fund one or two officers.
Post by: Little Dave on February 05, 2014, 10:09:19 PM
Our leadership suffers the illusion that a fee or tax creates a stable revenue stream. Instead, it causes disruption and uncertainty. These taxes and fees interfere with other commerce (something wasn't purchased elsewhere, or the resource was not used and loses public interest).
Instead make the fee voluntary with tiered levels. A true conservationist will pay the fee unless he is having a hard time making ends meet. It gives the agency incentive to provide a higher quality service. This is a charitable way we can share our public lands and perhaps work together to raise much more money than a tax or a fee.
Perhaps offer points or other non-cash benefits for higher tiered levels.
We are a nation of volunteers, with an all volunteer military. We were formed from people that were upset with excess tax and fees. Keep the country moving in the right direction.