Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Other Big Game => Topic started by: WAcoyotehunter on February 18, 2014, 03:15:15 PM

Title: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on February 18, 2014, 03:15:15 PM: What a joke. I just go off the phone with WDFW rep discussing the Cougar Removal program. Of course all the permits are taken, I didn't get one, which is pretty standard. He was lamenting about the number of calls he had to make to get the 17 permits issued because so many people on the list didn't have hounds.

The rule requires applicants to own hounds....of course the majority of the applicants know someone that does or just figure they can find someone to take them. Another example of hound owners getting screwed around.
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: MtnMuley on February 18, 2014, 04:00:55 PM: :'( :chuckle: I feel the same way......what a joke. >:(
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: HighCountryHunter88 on February 18, 2014, 04:03:56 PM: :chuckle: have you seen the list? its like 4 pages of wild ids...
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: villageidiot on February 19, 2014, 07:23:44 PM: One guy that got drawn is from california to hunt in the Methow but yet there are residents that have hounds that dont get drawn. :bash: :bash:
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: jackmaster on February 19, 2014, 07:37:33 PM: What a friggin crock, I dont have hounds anymore :'( if for some reason I got drawn, I would decline it or call one of the houndsman on this sight to see if we could make it work, but out of staters getting drawn, wtf that is a crock of chit, wdfw has got to get some people in there with some common Damn sense...
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: mulehunter on February 19, 2014, 07:57:44 PM: I know, I talked on phone last week and explain to them about their Biologlist has done wrong to me by telling me to go somewhere else and I pull my dogs back and left since the cut would need to be killed not collared that WDFW expect me to kill and hoping they would give me a another permit since Biologlist bully me out of the Canyon and after March 2011 got banned I sent my dog over MT to chase as much as she can and if I ever draw I will go get it and start hunt my Cat.
My friend has 6 hounds and his son draw but had to work, it snow really good since last Friday till now and still he haven't go yet.
Anyway Wa System Sucks! >:(
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: hunter399 on February 19, 2014, 08:59:35 PM: I had two hounds too ,gave them away to better homes.Dog food bill was killing me and never got to takem hunting anyway so i agree WA cougar rules suck.
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: DOsborn on February 19, 2014, 10:52:45 PM: I had a couple of dog run in front of my camera back in December, I have never hunted with dogs, I assume these dogs were being used to hunt?
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: jackmaster on February 20, 2014, 06:49:08 AM: looks like a blue tick and maybe a blue tick /walker cross, they both had collars on, they were probably one of the lucky few that drew a cat permit :dunno: you didnt have any cat picks on your camera? wonder what the dogs were trailing
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: Houndhunter on February 20, 2014, 07:19:00 AM: I find it funny how over 700 guys applied for these permits that you are required to own hounds to be eligible.... I would bet their is around 100 guys in WA that have real hunting hounds :twocents: . WDFW should have set this up much more professionally, but it doesn't surprise me

The one dog in the pic looks like a high tan
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: DOsborn on February 20, 2014, 08:29:07 AM: Quote from: jackmaster on February 20, 2014, 06:49:08 AM
looks like a blue tick and maybe a blue tick /walker cross, they both had collars on, they were probably one of the lucky few that drew a cat permit :dunno: you didnt have any cat picks on your camera? wonder what the dogs were trailing
I did not have a cougar just before the dogs were ther but I always get cougar pic in this area, in fact he always seem to be around. I got this pic after the dog had been there on a different cam about 100 yard away.
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: idaho guy on February 20, 2014, 09:46:02 AM: How could a californian draw that tag? I read the rules and it said only Washington residents that owned hounds? I must be blind cause i only the the one dog the blue tick.
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: woodywsu on February 20, 2014, 10:07:08 AM: The whole system is a joke. I did hear of a local guy who has several hounds get a wenatchee tag. An out-of-state houndsman shouldn't be awarded these permits. I don't see how that is possible.
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: Special T on February 20, 2014, 10:15:21 AM: It would appear that the WDFW didn't proceed with "due diligence" to make sure the tags were actually going to be used. Likely Peta and other bunny huggers put in for the tags.
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: bearpaw on February 20, 2014, 10:27:50 AM: http://wdfw.wa.gov/licensing/cougar_mgmt_removal/ (http://wdfw.wa.gov/licensing/cougar_mgmt_removal/)

Permit issuance procedure

•To be eligible for a cougar management removal permit (permit), the participant must be a Washington resident dog hunter (i.e., owns and hunts with dogs that are capable of detecting, tracking and treeing a cougar) who possesses a valid big game license with cougar as a species option. The permit holder must use dogs while participating in a cougar management removal.
•Individuals eligible for participation in a cougar management removal will be randomly selected from the participant list.
•This is a public safety cougar removal administrated by a WDFW designated coordinator. Individuals on the participant list will be contacted on an as-needed basis to conduct removals in portions of GMUs. Not all individuals on the participant list will be contacted in a given year.
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: idaho guy on February 20, 2014, 10:36:39 AM: I would really like to draw one as an out of state guy since I have been taking my son hunting over there because he is too young for Idaho big game license. But I am glad they are reserving for the resident hound guys. Washington hound doggers have been getting the shaft for a long time. Hope you can get a season back. Be a lot of fun running dogs on all those cats! someday
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: MtnMuley on February 20, 2014, 10:39:21 AM: I am still confused how there were like 720 applicants, yet nearly nobody that I know that owns hounds knew anything about it. :dunno: I understand if they put everybody in because at one point they were a hound hunter, but 720? :dunno: This makes ZERO sense and many things don't add up.........
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: idaho guy on February 20, 2014, 10:49:20 AM: Probably everybody that knows someone with hounds put in. Not sure how they would verify that not only do you own hounds but they are actually trained dogs that would trail and tree a lion. I had a mixed up dog that was great on bears and good on cats but looked more lab than a hound. I guess I would just go with what they give you better than nothing and maybe a step towards more hound hunting.
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: snowpack on February 20, 2014, 10:49:39 AM: I find it hard to believe that there are over 700 people that actually own trained hounds. Even with the number of contract houndsmen for the tree farms, I just don't see too many houndsmen these days. Where are they all hiding?
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: MtnMuley on February 20, 2014, 10:58:38 AM: There is a million "probably's" but that's not what I'm referring to. I want to know EXACTLY how this mess was conducted, and how these 720ish applicants heard about this and applied, whether they owned hounds truthfully or not. I'd like a list of names and addresses of those successful............and yes, I've emailed DFW. :twocents:
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: Special T on February 20, 2014, 11:09:35 AM: What are some easy reasonable ways that the WDFW COULD have used to vet people? Hound Lic in another state? Previous hound Lic in this state? Name on the previous "on call list" for problem cats? Outfitter?

Are there any other easy to identify ways to tell if someone is a "real" applicant?
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: woodywsu on February 20, 2014, 11:10:54 AM: When I read about it online about a month ago, I understood that these hunts were going to be strictly depredation tags where a selected hunter would be told where he has to hunt due to a landowner complaint/incident. That would make sense especially for this example in the Methow Valley whether WDFW's quotas have been met or not. A problem arises regarding a cat, WDFW issues permit to houndsman to resolve issue at hand. However, based on what I was told by a selected hunter he was told he can hunt the entire GMU because the GMU hasn't reached their quota for cats killed. For the record, this individual is a Washington resident owning hounds capable of treeing cougar.
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: Special T on February 20, 2014, 11:22:33 AM: Wouldn't you also think that Said person would have to be located relatively close to the area they were putting in for since it was a area specific permit?
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: idaho guy on February 20, 2014, 11:28:58 AM: mtnmuley you are right it doesnt look like they did it right and did not do much due dilligence. I was told the last time they stopped this program it was because a bunch of pissed houndsmen sent letters and called everyone and raised a fit and the result was they took it away. I was told this by other dog guys I know so I guess maybe thats right maybe not.Its not really my business I dont even live there nor can i draw the permit but it would be cool if you got some hound hunting back. I used to hunt the Idaho side along the washington border and was pretty sure most of the cats in Idaho we caught were crossing out of washington. I would take what you can get now and try to build on it to maybe get a better season. Maybe even a real hound season where an Idaho guy could come over the line and chase some cats.
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: jackmaster on February 20, 2014, 12:16:21 PM: Quote from: idaho guy on February 20, 2014, 09:46:02 AM
How could a californian draw that tag? I read the rules and it said only Washington residents that owned hounds? I must be blind cause i only the the one dog the blue tick.
it looks like two differant hound, the first two pics look like the same hound the third looks like a pure blue tick, either way those permits should only be sent to washingtonians with hounds, and then to guys in idaho with hounds and so on and so forth, but only if they cvant find enough houndsman in washington, doing the crap wdfw is doing by the way they are allocating these permits arent helpn anyone or themselves :twocents: :tup:
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: bearpaw on February 20, 2014, 12:47:34 PM: According to written requirements you must be a resident and own hounds.

If an officer feels that you are not a hound owner they may investigate you to prove it one way or another. That happened to a friend. In the end the friend was proven to own hounds, but they did thoroughly investigate.
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: KFhunter on February 20, 2014, 12:59:00 PM: They didn't do a very good job making that clear, maybe with 700 applicants to vet they'll think about it next time....or scrap the idea.

I give it 50/50 odds.
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: bearpaw on February 20, 2014, 01:03:57 PM: Quote from: KFhunter on February 20, 2014, 12:59:00 PM
They didn't do a very good job making that clear, maybe with 700 applicants to vet they'll think about it next time....or scrap the idea.

I give it 50/50 odds.

I think local wardens are asking for help with all the cougar problems, I expect the problem to grow, hopefully it will lead to the legislature approving another cougar hunting program similar to what we used to have a few years ago.
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: buddyw on February 20, 2014, 03:34:32 PM: This was something that was done at the last minute, In my opinion solely due to the Cougar Bill announced in the legislature. This same program was in place last year, and, and if anyone payed attension Last year they did not draw a single tag for this program. I'm almost positive that they were not going to draw any applicants this year either, however with the Bill getting introduced in the legislature they were forced to do something, to ease political pressure.

We All are better off waiting for the right opportunity to work on the Best bill in the legislation and then work to move that bill through completion. I don't think there is any chance of getting the current bill through this year, or any predator bills through with the Legislation we have in place today,

I'm hopeful that everyone will help in the 2014 elections and maybe we will have better political winds in the Legislature, and then we can make some progress on these topics.

I was contacted by several folks asking me about this bill and this program and I told them that it's a waste of time and it is mostly just lip service, and political games. Nothing to get excited about, We need to wait for the right opportunity, It doesn't hurt to have your name on the list, but it's pretty much Slim to Nill chances of being drawn. In fact I would guess that 2 months ago there was zero percent chance of drawing this type of tag since I don't think the Department had any interest in drawing any of them.

Just my 2 cents worth about this...

Buddy
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on February 20, 2014, 06:09:37 PM: BH45 is being extreme again :dunno: How about a huge protest :dunno: Lets round up all the hounds and hound hunters in the state and head over to Winthrop and cut them loose all at the same time :yike: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :yeah: Sounds fun to me :dunno:
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: villageidiot on February 22, 2014, 03:01:49 PM: I talked to the uncle of a guy that went to the Gardner unit near Winthrop. He said the boundaries were clearly restricted to an extremely small section of the unit most of which was private property. Without spending several days knocking on doors asking for permission it was useless. The guy went home extremely unhappy and of course never saw a track. He's not going back. It appears WDFW deliberately set this thing up to fail. Once it fails they can come out publicly and announce WE OPENED IT UP FOR HOUND HUNTERS TO CATCH THE PROBLEM COUGARS BUT THEY DID NOT SUCCEED. WE'VE DONE ALL WE CAN DO TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.
Sincerely Washington Dept. of Fish and No Game
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: KFhunter on February 22, 2014, 03:28:11 PM: soon as my batteries charge up a bit I'm heading back out again.

first couple stands this morning were dead quiet :(

boy not feeling too good neither :( so I'll be solo this evening.
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on February 23, 2014, 08:46:36 PM: Quote from: DOsborn on February 19, 2014, 10:52:45 PM
I had a couple of dog run in front of my camera back in December, I have never hunted with dogs, I assume these dogs were being used to hunt?
nothing to worry about ..they were running coons :dunno: :tup:
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: mountainman on February 24, 2014, 08:06:28 PM: All I cansayto my friend Bill..go get em and shoot all that come near! :tup:
Title: Re: Cougar Management Removal Program
Post by: jstokes12 on May 14, 2014, 07:12:20 AM: When I was about 12 years old I bought one hound dog from guy in Port Orchard, my parents helped pay for two more. My goal at that time was to train them to hunt bears. It wasn't long after that that the ban on hounds was passed. We kept the dogs and would run them on coons, eventually some *censored* bag stole one of our best dogs. We found out who it was and they claimed the dog ran away from them on a walk...ok maybe. They were good dogs but never lived up to their potential both lived good lives and I was sad to see them go. We ended up purchasing two more hounds about 6 years ago two redbones from a guy in the Tacoma area. We almost bought one from Del Cameron...read his book it teaches you how to raise and train how dogs which is almost impossible. Anyways they are good dogs but once again still waiting for the legislation to change.

Every time we go look for elk in the cascades we find loads of cougar tracks. During the modern rifle hunt we were closing in a group of elk in some old reprod. When we walked out along the logging road to circle around these elk two sets of cougar tracks were walking in our footsteps in the snow. In fact one cougar had attacked an elk possible calf and I believe mortally wounded this calf. We tracked them for about a mile and gave up. It wouldn't have been legal for us to take the elk anyways; I mean how could we have explained that to a game warden. Sure sure yeah a cougar killed the elk, RIGHT. Needless to say I have gone back several times to scout elk and every time we found multiple sets of cougar tracks. It's getting old. Why was this legislation passed anyways most of the liberal wieners don't understand wildlife to begin with, they never leave the cities. Why was the decision put in their hands, when a competent wildlife biologist or hunter would have sufficed. They haven't seen the damage predators’ cause and the need for management. Just saying.