Post by: lostbackpacker on February 25, 2014, 12:31:11 PM
Why doesnt WA state allow expandable broadheads?
thanks
Mike
Post by: h20hunter on February 25, 2014, 12:34:37 PM
Post by: bhawley76 on February 25, 2014, 12:34:52 PM
Post by: D-Rock425 on February 25, 2014, 12:42:12 PM
Post by: tonymiller7 on February 25, 2014, 12:47:23 PM
Post by: bhawley76 on February 25, 2014, 12:50:58 PM
Post by: Russ McDonald on February 25, 2014, 12:51:12 PM
Not 100% sure why there not legal. I'm 100% sure I wouldn't use any even if legal. :twocents:I would use them in a hear beat.
Washington likes to keep primitive weapons primative, thus no scopes on MLs, no 209 primers, cap has to be exposed to the elements, no crossbows, no expandalbe broadheads etc.:yeah: Stupid in my opinion but correct.
Post by: MtnMuley on February 25, 2014, 12:53:30 PM
I'm 100% sure I wouldn't use any even if legal. :twocents:
:yeah: Well put, especially with many of the new options of fixed broadheads.
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on February 25, 2014, 12:58:13 PM
My understanding is that they are "barbed" and for a lost animal it doesn't have the same ability to pull itself out and give the animal a chance to heal.As far as I know, this is the reason.
Was no "expandable" at the time the rule was written, just some heads that were barbed...
But, due to feedback from bowhunters, rule was amended to include prohibiting expendable's.
Only a matter of time, just like Lumenocks.
....
as the statements posted while I was typing my response show..
Post by: D-Rock425 on February 25, 2014, 01:00:55 PM
Post by: bhawley76 on February 25, 2014, 01:03:58 PM
Post by: Russ McDonald on February 25, 2014, 01:07:41 PM
I see no benefit in them. They lack penetration over a good sharp fixed blade. They also have the a chance of failure to open.They have changed alot D. I have seen the work up and personal in MN. I was shooting my MX-100 Muzzy and my aunt was shooting Grim Reapers. The enterance wounds on both our deer were the same size the exit hole has a different story. I could fit four fingers in the exit would on my aunts deer. The exit wound on my deer wasn't much bigger than the entrance wound. Your still working on old school thought. Expandables have evolved so much that they are almost better than fixed broadheads.
Post by: elkaholic123 on February 25, 2014, 01:09:01 PM
I see no benefit in them. They lack penetration over a good sharp fixed blade. They also have the a chance of failure to open.You have experience with them and their lack of penetration? I Have seen first hand what the Rage does to deer
:yike: :yike: :yike: :dunno:
Post by: lostbackpacker on February 25, 2014, 01:11:01 PM
My understanding is that they are "barbed" and for a lost animal it doesn't have the same ability to pull itself out and give the animal a chance to heal.
H2O,
Not sure this is the answer. Could be. I know a guy who uses nothing but aluminum shafts. He says they don't break. So when he sticks an animal,it goes into the brush. Every time that alum shaft hits a branch or tree, it doesn't break, it continues to gouge the animal making a bigger blood trail. I think expandables would do the same thing... bigger cutting area, bigger blood trail especially if they don't fall out.
Post by: MtnMuley on February 25, 2014, 01:11:21 PM
I see no benefit in them. They lack penetration over a good sharp fixed blade. They also have the a chance of failure to open.Your still working on old school thought. Expandables have evolved so much that they are almost better than fixed broadheads.
If they've evolved so much that they're almost better than fixed blades, then why would you use them in a "hear beat"?? :dunno: Personally I wouldn't use something that is almost as good if they weren't better and the prices were the same. Seems silly to me. :dunno:
Post by: lostbackpacker on February 25, 2014, 01:13:52 PM
Post by: Russ McDonald on February 25, 2014, 01:15:56 PM
Hear beat? Must be heart beat. :chuckle: In my opinion they are better the fixed broadheads and I would us them in a heart beat if legal here in this state. I have used them in California but never had a chance at an animal that.I see no benefit in them. They lack penetration over a good sharp fixed blade. They also have the a chance of failure to open.Your still working on old school thought. Expandables have evolved so much that they are almost better than fixed broadheads.
If they've evolved so much that they're almost better than fixed blades, then why would you use them in a "hear beat"?? :dunno: Personally I wouldn't use something that is almost as good if they weren't better and the prices were the same. Seems silly to me. :dunno:
Post by: coachcw on February 25, 2014, 01:20:22 PM
Post by: D-Rock425 on February 25, 2014, 01:23:04 PM
I have no doubt that they'll kill deer. It takes away from the arrows energy when the head hits and has to open.I see no benefit in them. They lack penetration over a good sharp fixed blade. They also have the a chance of failure to open.You have experience with them and their lack of penetration? I Have seen first hand what the Rage does to deer
:yike: :yike: :yike: :dunno:
Post by: lostbackpacker on February 25, 2014, 01:27:09 PM
I have no doubt that they'll kill deer. It takes away from the arrows energy when the head hits and has to open.I see no benefit in them. They lack penetration over a good sharp fixed blade. They also have the a chance of failure to open.You have experience with them and their lack of penetration? I Have seen first hand what the Rage does to deer
:yike: :yike: :yike: :dunno:
I agree it would take ke away upon deployment. a fixed broadhead will lose some during flight...so they prob cancel each other out.
Post by: Russ McDonald on February 25, 2014, 01:28:24 PM
My aunt and uncle have killed elk with them. Even quartering shots.
Post by: D-Rock425 on February 25, 2014, 01:40:10 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 25, 2014, 01:41:29 PM
Even California allows them.
That's enough for me. Lifetime ban!
Post by: Russ McDonald on February 25, 2014, 01:42:31 PM
I'm not against them being legal I just won't use them. You guys want to use them go ahead don't matter to me.:tup:
Post by: bullfisher on February 25, 2014, 01:45:57 PM
Post by: turkeyfeather on February 25, 2014, 01:55:37 PM
Post by: lostbackpacker on February 25, 2014, 01:59:42 PM
Its an old law written when the early expandables were unreliable. Early designs were weak and only forward opening. They required up to 30% of a leagal arrows energy to open, and had the tip reccest to far towards the bades causing them to cartwheel on quartering shots. Todays mechs are much better but still not on par with a good fixed blade. That being said I've seen plenty of fixed blades that are crap and only designed to seperate you from your wallet. State law says a 40# bow and a 300grn arrow is the minimum requirement and you won't see mechs here until that changes. Plus this is washington, land of big roosevelt elk, blacktail and mulies not german sheperd sized whitetail. The state wants you to build an arrow for when everything goes wrong, not for when everything goes right!
Great answer.....thanks
Post by: bhawley76 on February 25, 2014, 02:06:08 PM
Post by: turkeyfeather on February 25, 2014, 02:14:08 PM
Besides they work great for the guys that like to take 200 facing away shots. :chuckle: :stirthepot:Stop it. :chuckle:
Post by: vandeman17 on February 25, 2014, 02:18:17 PM
Post by: washelkhunter on February 25, 2014, 02:22:30 PM
I'd certainly like to give them a try before making a judgement.
I hear wolf season is open in Stevens county. No tag reqd.
Post by: fair-chase on February 25, 2014, 02:53:25 PM
Why would almost every pro out there be using some sort of mechanical broadhead if they didn't work? :dunno:
That's easy, because they get paid to!!!
Post by: RadSav on February 25, 2014, 03:03:31 PM
Its an old law written when the early expandables were unreliable. Early designs were weak and only forward opening. They required up to 30% of a leagal arrows energy to open, and had the tip reccest to far towards the bades causing them to cartwheel on quartering shots. Todays mechs are much better but still not on par with a good fixed blade. That being said I've seen plenty of fixed blades that are crap and only designed to seperate you from your wallet. State law says a 40# bow and a 300grn arrow is the minimum requirement and you won't see mechs here until that changes. Plus this is washington, land of big roosevelt elk, blacktail and mulies not german sheperd sized whitetail. The state wants you to build an arrow for when everything goes wrong, not for when everything goes right!
Wow, That saved me a bunch of typing. Thank you :tup:
Post by: Jonathan_S on February 25, 2014, 03:07:20 PM
Its an old law written when the early expandables were unreliable. Early designs were weak and only forward opening. They required up to 30% of a leagal arrows energy to open, and had the tip reccest to far towards the bades causing them to cartwheel on quartering shots. Todays mechs are much better but still not on par with a good fixed blade. That being said I've seen plenty of fixed blades that are crap and only designed to seperate you from your wallet. State law says a 40# bow and a 300grn arrow is the minimum requirement and you won't see mechs here until that changes. Plus this is washington, land of big roosevelt elk, blacktail and mulies not german sheperd sized whitetail. The state wants you to build an arrow for when everything goes wrong, not for when everything goes right!
Wow, That saved me a bunch of typing. Thank you :tup:
Aww, c'mon Rad! I've been watching this thread, waiting for you to chime in!
Post by: D-Rock425 on February 25, 2014, 03:11:23 PM
Post by: RadSav on February 25, 2014, 03:15:34 PM
Aww, c'mon Rad! I've been watching this thread, waiting for you to chime in!
Maybe I'll try to add something more substantial later :chuckle: Got money to make right now!
Post by: Jellymon on February 25, 2014, 05:01:37 PM
Results- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AgJEvQwzfDRZdGxzdC15R0JIZDJGQ1J4bVpGV1pTWHc (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AgJEvQwzfDRZdGxzdC15R0JIZDJGQ1J4bVpGV1pTWHc)
Info- http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1790525 (http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1790525)
Post by: Come Get Some on February 26, 2014, 04:53:01 AM
Post by: bullfisher on February 26, 2014, 06:16:14 AM
Here's a guy that tested a bunch of heads for penetration, sharpness, durability, sharp before impact, and sharp after categories. Look where most of the expendables ended up.I remember that thread. It was a good test and yes the fixed out performed most of the mechs. My only problem with the test was the range and target position. I've never shot an animal inside of 20yds with its body perfectly broadside and parallel to where I was shooting. Set the target at 40yds at a slight angle and I think you would see even greater seperation in performance.
Results- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AgJEvQwzfDRZdGxzdC15R0JIZDJGQ1J4bVpGV1pTWHc (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AgJEvQwzfDRZdGxzdC15R0JIZDJGQ1J4bVpGV1pTWHc)
Info- http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1790525 (http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1790525)
Post by: Jellymon on February 26, 2014, 06:30:41 AM
Post by: huntnnw on February 26, 2014, 06:42:55 AM
Post by: bullfisher on February 26, 2014, 07:23:04 AM
I believe he did those tests at 30yds. It would be interesting to throw a few variables in the mix.20yds page 3.
I noticed in some of the test pics the gel is towards the front of the target box and some pics towards the rear, hard to get even results like that. I don't think the tester was prepared for that thread to blow up like that. I can tell you from experience, testing archery equipment gets EXPENSIVE!
Post by: irishevox on February 26, 2014, 07:24:15 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on February 26, 2014, 07:34:47 AM
The swacker isn't considered an expandable. b/c they are held together by a rubber band you can shoot them either way open or closed. on impact if in closed position, they open.the swacker is an expandable.
Post by: RadSav on February 26, 2014, 07:35:34 AM
The swacker isn't considered an expandable. b/c they are held together by a rubber band you can shoot them either way open or closed. on impact if in closed position, they open.
Good luck getting a gamie to go along with that one :chuckle:
Post by: h20hunter on February 26, 2014, 07:37:48 AM
"Opens so fast...you can hear the Swhack!"100 Grain Expandable 2-Blade Broadhead1" in flight >>> 1.75" after penetrationBlade: .032" thick, stainless steel, honed razor sharpPoint: Hardened high-carbon steelFerrule: Anodized aircraft aluminum*Each set includes 3 broadheads - See more at: http://www.swhacker.com/product/swhacker-100-grain#sthash.NhJEnrIj.dpuf (http://www.swhacker.com/product/swhacker-100-grain#sthash.NhJEnrIj.dpuf)
Post by: Giggles on February 26, 2014, 09:28:11 AM
Post by: irishevox on February 26, 2014, 11:56:20 AM
Post by: northwesthunter84 on February 26, 2014, 12:17:44 PM
Post by: MLBowhunting on February 27, 2014, 10:51:34 AM
Post by: sAsQuAtCh17 on March 11, 2014, 08:50:52 PM
http://wdfw.wa.gov/help/questions/114/Why+aren%27t+retractable+broadheads+legal+to+hunt+big+game+in+Washington%3F (http://wdfw.wa.gov/help/questions/114/Why+aren%27t+retractable+broadheads+legal+to+hunt+big+game+in+Washington%3F)
http://wdfw.wa.gov/help/questions/113/Is+it+legal+to+use+retractable+broadheads+during+wild+turkey+seasons%3F (http://wdfw.wa.gov/help/questions/113/Is+it+legal+to+use+retractable+broadheads+during+wild+turkey+seasons%3F)
:archery_smiley:
Post by: Tbob on March 14, 2014, 09:59:59 AM
Post by: Tbob on March 14, 2014, 11:06:48 AM