Post by: ucwarden on March 16, 2014, 03:43:58 PM
http://www.change.org/petitions/washington-state-fish-and-wildlife-commission-remove-wdfw-director-phil-anderson-chief-steve-crown-and-deputy-chief-mike-cenci (http://www.change.org/petitions/washington-state-fish-and-wildlife-commission-remove-wdfw-director-phil-anderson-chief-steve-crown-and-deputy-chief-mike-cenci)
Post by: ucwarden on March 16, 2014, 03:49:59 PM
done. #3 signature.
Great!!!! Please pass this on to everyone you know.
Post by: ucwarden on March 16, 2014, 04:01:18 PM
Posted a link on facebook, I hope to get another 10 before the close of the day, people need to get on this ASAP. Thanks for taking this challenge on.
You are very welcome......doubt I will ever get drawn for a Dayton bull tag now
Post by: Bmcox86 on March 16, 2014, 04:04:34 PM
Post by: KFhunter on March 16, 2014, 04:06:40 PM
Post by: huntnphool on March 16, 2014, 04:09:08 PM
Post by: Eli346 on March 16, 2014, 04:15:22 PM
Post by: ucwarden on March 16, 2014, 04:27:59 PM
Anyone else see the irony of this being brought to our attention by "ucwarden"? :rolleyes:
I don't get the irony, so explain what you mean?
I worked in the outfit for 34 years, and know it inside out, so who better to bring this to light?
Post by: huntnphool on March 16, 2014, 04:33:36 PM
No need to get defensive, I just found it funny, also ironic. :chuckle: If you don't see it, well then....I can't help you, but still no reason to get defensive. ;)Anyone else see the irony of this being brought to our attention by "ucwarden"? :rolleyes:
I don't get the irony, so explain what you mean?
I worked in the outfit for 34 years, and know it inside out, so who better to bring this to light?
Post by: gasman on March 16, 2014, 04:34:26 PM
Post by: huntnphool on March 16, 2014, 04:39:02 PM
So are you saying that you don't see a need or reason for change within the WDFW phool? Or is it just the fact of the person who started it? Honest question.Oh hell no, I was #10!!! I just thought it was funny who posted it.
Post by: SCRUBS on March 16, 2014, 04:40:11 PM
Post by: huntnphool on March 16, 2014, 04:45:25 PM
So are you saying that you don't see a need or reason for change within the WDFW phool? Or is it just the fact of the person who started it? Honest question.Oh hell no, I was #10!!! I just thought it was funny who posted it.
:tup: OK, I was just confused at what you were getting at. Hopefully this makes a splash and rolls some heads.
"ucwarden" posting a thread encouraging a clean sweep of WDFW :dunno: seemed pretty obvious to me! :chuckle:
Post by: Oldguy on March 16, 2014, 04:45:57 PM
Post by: sled on March 16, 2014, 04:47:15 PM
Post by: FC on March 16, 2014, 04:57:38 PM
I see what Huntphool is getting at but I have also seen horrific mismanagement with nothing but excuses at best. The department has also forgotten who they work for as in who pays their bills and it is time they were reminded!
Post by: gasman on March 16, 2014, 05:05:44 PM
Post by: ucwarden on March 16, 2014, 05:09:00 PM
No need to get defensive, I just found it funny, also ironic. :chuckle: If you don't see it, well then....I can't help you, but still no reason to get defensive. ;)Anyone else see the irony of this being brought to our attention by "ucwarden"? :rolleyes:
I don't get the irony, so explain what you mean?
I worked in the outfit for 34 years, and know it inside out, so who better to bring this to light?
Not defensive at all, nor any offense taken, I was sincerely missing the irony.
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on March 16, 2014, 05:16:59 PM
Post by: Slimdog350 on March 16, 2014, 05:17:58 PM
Post by: Alan K on March 16, 2014, 05:20:26 PM
Posted a link on facebook, I hope to get another 10 before the close of the day, people need to get on this ASAP. Thanks for taking this challenge on.
You are very welcome......doubt I will ever get drawn for a Dayton bull tag now
Scary thing is, I wouldn't put this past them! :yike:
Post by: bobcat on March 16, 2014, 05:22:42 PM
Post by: Bmcox86 on March 16, 2014, 05:25:06 PM
Post by: Special T on March 16, 2014, 05:34:45 PM
Post by: buckfvr on March 16, 2014, 05:35:13 PM
I have always felt we should have an avenue of action against mismanagement for these jobs ( and many others ).
I also think we should have public review boards for wdfw commissioners and game wardens. Some form of checks and balances to keep them to task.
Post by: huntnphool on March 16, 2014, 05:39:57 PM
I hope this proves persons in those positions DO HAVE TO BE ACCOUNTABLE TO US !!!!!!!! They failed, and should be terminated post haste !!!! If they cant live by the mission statement of WDFW, then get the H out of there.The problem is, they would argue that they are doing exactly what they were put there to do, appointed by the Governor that was voted into office with a majority vote, therefor speaking for the majority, in this case King County.
I have always felt we should have an avenue of action against mismanagement for these jobs ( and many others ).
I also think we should have public review boards for wdfw commissioners and game wardens. Some form of checks and balances to keep them to task.
Post by: buckfvr on March 16, 2014, 05:47:53 PM
I hope this proves persons in those positions DO HAVE TO BE ACCOUNTABLE TO US !!!!!!!! They failed, and should be terminated post haste !!!! If they cant live by the mission statement of WDFW, then get the H out of there.The problem is, they would argue that they are doing exactly what they were put there to do, appointed by the Governor that was voted into office with a majority vote, therefor speaking for the majority, in this case King County.
I have always felt we should have an avenue of action against mismanagement for these jobs ( and many others ).
I also think we should have public review boards for wdfw commissioners and game wardens. Some form of checks and balances to keep them to task.
Well there is that little problem............. :chuckle: But thats an excuse !!!!!!!! It doesnt hide the fact that wdfw is mismanaged. We are tired of this........ :yike:
Post by: wadu1 on March 16, 2014, 05:50:44 PM
Post by: huntnphool on March 16, 2014, 05:51:15 PM
Oh I agree, seems to me we should all be pushing everyone harder for change at the Governor level too. :dunno:I hope this proves persons in those positions DO HAVE TO BE ACCOUNTABLE TO US !!!!!!!! They failed, and should be terminated post haste !!!! If they cant live by the mission statement of WDFW, then get the H out of there.The problem is, they would argue that they are doing exactly what they were put there to do, appointed by the Governor that was voted into office with a majority vote, therefor speaking for the majority, in this case King County.
I have always felt we should have an avenue of action against mismanagement for these jobs ( and many others ).
I also think we should have public review boards for wdfw commissioners and game wardens. Some form of checks and balances to keep them to task.
Well there is that little problem............. :chuckle: But thats an excuse !!!!!!!! It doesnt hide the fact that wdfw is mismanaged. We are tired of this........ :yike:
Post by: trophyhunt on March 16, 2014, 05:54:21 PM
Post by: Pinetar on March 16, 2014, 05:57:15 PM
Post by: Huntin4Ever on March 16, 2014, 06:01:53 PM
Anyone else see the irony of this being brought to our attention by "ucwarden"? :rolleyes:
The way I read Phools comment, the irony is ucwarden has 34 years experience in the WDFW and ucwarden knows it is being mismanaged in favor of special interest groups. Who better to get the hunters and sportsmen's attention than a retired game warden!!!
I'm signing and will be getting all my buddies on the Olympic Peninsula to sign it too.
A big Thanks to ucwarden.
Oh and Phool...I do see the irony in it ;)
Post by: trophyhunt on March 16, 2014, 06:16:08 PM
Post by: huntnphool on March 16, 2014, 06:18:14 PM
Post by: bowhunterforever on March 16, 2014, 06:26:51 PM
Post by: TheHunt on March 16, 2014, 06:38:49 PM
Post by: jackmaster on March 16, 2014, 06:39:06 PM
Post by: jackmaster on March 16, 2014, 06:47:06 PM
Post by: buckcanyonlodge on March 16, 2014, 06:47:31 PM
Post by: CementFinisher on March 16, 2014, 07:03:18 PM
Post by: fishinmike on March 16, 2014, 07:07:25 PM
Post by: HntnFsh on March 16, 2014, 07:23:26 PM
Andersons recent decision to add the North fork Toutle and Green river to the Gene bank is just another reason. They have no problem screwing the sportsmen and women of this state!
Post by: ucwarden on March 16, 2014, 07:40:49 PM
Clean the house!!!! Signed! :tup:
Thanks! Please pass this on to everyone you can think of, and don't forget your family members!!!
http://www.change.org/petitions/washington-state-fish-and-wildlife-commission-remove-wdfw-director-phil-anderson-chief-steve-crown-and-deputy-chief-mike-cenci (http://www.change.org/petitions/washington-state-fish-and-wildlife-commission-remove-wdfw-director-phil-anderson-chief-steve-crown-and-deputy-chief-mike-cenci)
Post by: mossy8352 on March 16, 2014, 07:44:52 PM
Post by: ucwarden on March 16, 2014, 07:46:03 PM
Post by: 6x6in6 on March 16, 2014, 07:49:56 PM
Post by: rosscrazyelk on March 16, 2014, 07:50:13 PM
Post by: rexdunn1996 on March 16, 2014, 07:50:54 PM
Post by: rosscrazyelk on March 16, 2014, 07:55:42 PM
Post by: haugenna on March 16, 2014, 07:59:58 PM
Post by: hogslayer on March 16, 2014, 08:02:29 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on March 16, 2014, 08:04:44 PM
Post by: ucwarden on March 16, 2014, 08:14:06 PM
How many signatures do you need to get this to work?
I don't know how many are enough to get the commission's attention, but I want enough to make them sit up a pay attention!!!!!!
A friend of mine said he sent the entire commission each a copy of my book (Operation Cody) and they were returned to him.
Post by: Odell on March 16, 2014, 08:16:43 PM
Post by: ucwarden on March 16, 2014, 08:21:36 PM
The wife and I have signed, also posted to Facebook! Thanks ucwarden for doing this!!! These two smucks need to hit the unemployment line, I'm sure the tribes would hire them! Have you read the book huntphool? Ucwarden is definently one of the good guys. Everyone on this site needs to take the time to sign this!!!
I didn't take huntphool's comment as, in any way, a put down....I just didn't get the irony.
Believe me when I say; most of the WDFW officers are good people and they too care about hunting, fishing and wildlife. That is not where the problem lies. In my 34 years I have seen lot's of ups and downs, but WDFW is at the peak of it's disfunctionality right now, and something has to give before we lose all the best officers we have. I have had some really troubling calls lately from great officers who are either bailing out or looking for work elsewhere. I am about in a panic, because I have seen what poachers can do to our resources if they are left unchecked.
Both my wife and I are avid hunters, and we really care about wildlife; way more than most of our administrators.
PLEASE PLEASE, get everyone you can think of to sign this petition. The petition, and the media is our only chance at stopping a out-of-control train. And when that train wrecks, we (the hunters and fishermen) all lose.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on March 16, 2014, 08:23:47 PM
Post by: Bob33 on March 16, 2014, 08:29:17 PM
What is your assurance they will be better based on?
Post by: bigtex on March 16, 2014, 08:29:43 PM
I have had some really troubling calls lately from great officers who are either bailing out or looking for work elsewhere. I am about in a panic, because I have seen what poachers can do to our resources if they are left unchecked.UC,
Maybe you can give those reading on here an idea of the reasons why some current WDFW Officers are looking to leave the agency? Obviously those that have read Operation Cody know some of the issues, but what are the other issues that are forcing officers to leave?
Post by: Huntin4Ever on March 16, 2014, 08:31:40 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on March 16, 2014, 08:32:22 PM
I signed it not because I think the current people in charge are really bad but I view this similar to a good coach of a sports team having their team not perform. Sometimes a change in leadership and new perspectives are what is needed for improvement
Post by: huntnphool on March 16, 2014, 08:35:16 PM
Who will replace them?Which is why it starts with a different Governor.
What is your assurance they will be better based on?
Post by: Forks on March 16, 2014, 08:38:15 PM
Who will replace them?Very good question. I do know that if Phil goes, at least one on the commission will be following him.
What is your assurance they will be better based on?
Post by: runningboard on March 16, 2014, 08:55:29 PM
Post by: ipkus on March 16, 2014, 08:59:14 PM
Maybe this will help.
Post by: Tbar on March 16, 2014, 09:10:01 PM
Done deal, I hope we can remove and dismantle the WDFW and get some straight shooters in there to help us and not the communist special interest groups like Conservation Northwest.This comment strikes a chord of fear with me. If Phil Anderson is removed I fear it opens the door for a special interest group like conservation northwest to implement a director.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on March 16, 2014, 09:14:36 PM
Done deal, I hope we can remove and dismantle the WDFW and get some straight shooters in there to help us and not the communist special interest groups like Conservation Northwest.This comment strikes a chord of fear with me. If Phil Anderson is removed I fear it opens the door for a special interest group like conservation northwest to implement a director.
Seems to me that CNW is already in the drivers seat. WDFW does everything they say. CNW puts up reward monies and more of it than WDFW. We need laws banning special interest groups being involved in anything, especially if they are from out of state.
Post by: SnakeEyes on March 16, 2014, 09:46:58 PM
Post by: TheHunt on March 16, 2014, 09:48:44 PM
Post by: Pinetar on March 16, 2014, 10:05:03 PM
I also see that one of our local recently retired WSGD Leo's signed the petition. Good for him. Below is what he had to say:
"I left WDFW because top management control over operational managers had become so constrictive I was no longer able to do my job effectively. Process outweighed performance, and good performance was not as important as compliance. This is more of the same, only worse. Also, this is why government is hated and no longer trusted. WDFW is broken. Kudos for trying to effect positive change on behalf of taxpayers and resource".
Post by: MLBowhunting on March 16, 2014, 10:23:47 PM
Post by: elkslayer069 on March 16, 2014, 10:57:38 PM
Post by: johnnyaustin44 on March 16, 2014, 11:31:44 PM
Post by: buckhorn2 on March 16, 2014, 11:53:41 PM
Post by: bearkautz on March 17, 2014, 12:52:26 AM
Post by: jackmaster on March 17, 2014, 06:25:39 AM
Post by: ucwarden on March 17, 2014, 06:42:49 AM
WOW 127 signatures, that was fast. Lets keep this rolling.
I also see that one of our local recently retired WSGD Leo's signed the petition. Good for him. Below is what he had to say:
"I left WDFW because top management control over operational managers had become so constrictive I was no longer able to do my job effectively. Process outweighed performance, and good performance was not as important as compliance. This is more of the same, only worse. Also, this is why government is hated and no longer trusted. WDFW is broken. Kudos for trying to effect positive change on behalf of taxpayers and resource".
That is spot on!!!!
Post by: Barbarossa13 on March 17, 2014, 06:45:13 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on March 17, 2014, 06:51:49 AM
Post by: ELKBURGER on March 17, 2014, 06:57:57 AM
Post by: returnofsid on March 17, 2014, 07:03:34 AM
Post by: buglebuster on March 17, 2014, 07:04:39 AM
Signed and Shared on Facebook.Ditto
Post by: trophyhunt on March 17, 2014, 07:07:11 AM
i see the amount of replys to the amount of views vastly outweigh each other, i sure hope all the people viewing this are still signing the petition, its time to put up peeps, and if your on the fence, read "OPERATION CODY" i promise you will want to sign it 1000 times then :tup::yeah: :yeah: :yeah:Way too many views against people signing???? What's up guys? it's a good response but it should be a lot better.
Post by: rosscrazyelk on March 17, 2014, 07:14:32 AM
Post by: YJ Guide Service on March 17, 2014, 07:43:17 AM
Post by: ucwarden on March 17, 2014, 07:52:58 AM
signed and shared on facebook and had parents sign and share as well. I agree a agency with way to much power and accountable to no one it seems . Change is needed at the top down if that's what it takes to change its ways and thinking
Great! As a guide, I am sure you have lot's of contacts, so you alone should bring in a bunch of signatures.
This may just work....we will see.
Post by: ucwarden on March 17, 2014, 07:56:00 AM
i see the amount of replys to the amount of views vastly outweigh each other, i sure hope all the people viewing this are still signing the petition, its time to put up peeps, and if your on the fence, read "OPERATION CODY" i promise you will want to sign it 1000 times then :tup:
Thanks, and you are right on the money. If I can ever get a reporter to take the information we have, and did a bit, we have way more than what is in "Operation Cody".....way more!
Post by: SemperFidelis97 on March 17, 2014, 08:04:39 AM
Post by: MtnMuley on March 17, 2014, 08:08:11 AM
Post by: ucwarden on March 17, 2014, 08:13:48 AM
Done
Thanks, and thanks for your service!!!!!
Post by: Gringo31 on March 17, 2014, 08:16:23 AM
Post by: stickflngr on March 17, 2014, 08:23:56 AM
Post by: ucwarden on March 17, 2014, 08:29:39 AM
Done and only 4 more needed... 8)
Four more to make 200, but I want all I can get (hoping for something around 1,000)!
The fact I can get 200 signatures in 17 hours should tell the commission something!
Post by: Huntin4Ever on March 17, 2014, 08:35:26 AM
i see the amount of replys to the amount of views vastly outweigh each other, i sure hope all the people viewing this are still signing the petition, its time to put up peeps, and if your on the fence, read "OPERATION CODY" i promise you will want to sign it 1000 times then :tup:
Remember the number of viewers can be skewed, I have gone back to this thread many times just to read the comments after I signed. I just hope everyone that does read it signs the petition. :)
Post by: buckfvr on March 17, 2014, 08:42:36 AM
Post by: returnofsid on March 17, 2014, 09:01:14 AM
What would be the best way to answer the following question, regarding the current WDFW Administration, from someone who does a little hunting but isn't involved in any online hunting community...
Quote
I'm curious, why do you feel they are failing?
This is how I answered, but am looking for other suggestions or advice...
Quote
Leadership is causing good Leos to quit, massive poaching rings aren't being prosecuted, special interest animal rights groups, from out of state are making policy, policies that go directly against their Mission Statement, Native Americans are allowed to illegally hunt WDFW protected elk feeding stations, harvesting many elk... I could go on and on with many other examples. Nothing will change until there's a leadership change. Until that happens, it will continue to get worse.
Post by: Broken Arrow on March 17, 2014, 09:01:59 AM
Post by: YJ Guide Service on March 17, 2014, 09:16:43 AM
Post by: dc1608 on March 17, 2014, 09:17:34 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on March 17, 2014, 09:39:16 AM
UC Warden is there anyway to do a regular paper petition? We are doing the Big Horn show in Spokane this week and weekend could probably get a few hundred more from there.:tup:
Post by: trophyhunt on March 17, 2014, 09:43:04 AM
After I put in my info it took me to the share with Facebook page but it would not let me share. So I am curious if my name even got in there? I was never given a numbersame here?? I sure hope my wife's and mine counted? Then I went to my Facebook and I didn't see anything?
Post by: baker5150 on March 17, 2014, 09:55:35 AM
I thought there would have been more by now.
Post by: ucwarden on March 17, 2014, 10:08:59 AM
Not knowing how long you plan to get signatures, it seems a shame to NOT have a paper petition in Clarks and Big R up here, as Im sure there are many who pass through there each day who would gladly sign as they may not be internet connected/savvy. Just sayin...........
I will mail paper petitions to anyone who wants them, as long as they will mail them back to me. I am going to go until I get at least 1,000.
ALSO; I WILL HAVE PAPER PETITIONS AT MY BOOTH AT THE BIGHORN SHOW!!!!!!
Post by: ucwarden on March 17, 2014, 10:13:16 AM
After I put in my info it took me to the share with Facebook page but it would not let me share. So I am curious if my name even got in there? I was never given a numbersame here?? I sure hope my wife's and mine counted? Then I went to my Facebook and I didn't see anything?
It looks like you have to have separate email addresses for each person who signs. So if a husband and wife only have one email address it won't let you both sign.
Post by: trophyhunt on March 17, 2014, 10:15:56 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Curly on March 17, 2014, 10:29:13 AM
Post by: ucwarden on March 17, 2014, 10:32:16 AM
Another big problem is the joke of a commission we have in place. I can't believe some of the crap they've approved over the last several years (wolf plan, category permit system, etc.). :bash: I wish they could get booted.
I agree, they seem totally disconnected, but it's all we got right now. My plan is to take these signatures, along with some very damning material I have, to the commission and tell them to do the right thing or get ready to explain it to the media. I already have two reporters on-deck. If/when we take care of this cancer, then we can move on to the next issue. I'm retired, and have nothing better to do (except during hunting season) than to try to fix all the wrongs!
Post by: Curly on March 17, 2014, 10:47:22 AM
WOW 127 signatures, that was fast. Lets keep this rolling.
I also see that one of our local recently retired WSGD Leo's signed the petition. Good for him. Below is what he had to say:
"I left WDFW because top management control over operational managers had become so constrictive I was no longer able to do my job effectively. Process outweighed performance, and good performance was not as important as compliance. This is more of the same, only worse. Also, this is why government is hated and no longer trusted. WDFW is broken. Kudos for trying to effect positive change on behalf of taxpayers and resource".
That is spot on!!!!
Was that the quote from warden Steve Rodgers? He was a long time warden out of Cle Elum (if I am remembering correctly). He seemed like a great guy; I was checked by him a couple of times.
Post by: trophyhunt on March 17, 2014, 10:53:21 AM
Post by: bigtex on March 17, 2014, 10:53:55 AM
That's him. Rodgers, Lambert, and Nixon are all recently retired WDFW Officers.WOW 127 signatures, that was fast. Lets keep this rolling.
I also see that one of our local recently retired WSGD Leo's signed the petition. Good for him. Below is what he had to say:
"I left WDFW because top management control over operational managers had become so constrictive I was no longer able to do my job effectively. Process outweighed performance, and good performance was not as important as compliance. This is more of the same, only worse. Also, this is why government is hated and no longer trusted. WDFW is broken. Kudos for trying to effect positive change on behalf of taxpayers and resource".
That is spot on!!!!
Was that the quote from warden Steve Rodgers? He was a long time warden out of Cle Elum (if I am remembering correctly). He seemed like a great guy; I was checked by him a couple of times.
Post by: ucwarden on March 17, 2014, 11:07:37 AM
If you want us to be there when you talk to the commission, if its in a public meeting, please let us know when??
We will see. I am going to mail it to them first, let them digest it, then go from there.
Thanks for the offer, and I may take you up on it.
Post by: ucwarden on March 17, 2014, 11:08:26 AM
That's him. Rodgers, Lambert, and Nixon are all recently retired WDFW Officers.WOW 127 signatures, that was fast. Lets keep this rolling.
I also see that one of our local recently retired WSGD Leo's signed the petition. Good for him. Below is what he had to say:
"I left WDFW because top management control over operational managers had become so constrictive I was no longer able to do my job effectively. Process outweighed performance, and good performance was not as important as compliance. This is more of the same, only worse. Also, this is why government is hated and no longer trusted. WDFW is broken. Kudos for trying to effect positive change on behalf of taxpayers and resource".
That is spot on!!!!
Was that the quote from warden Steve Rodgers? He was a long time warden out of Cle Elum (if I am remembering correctly). He seemed like a great guy; I was checked by him a couple of times.
Look closer and you will see a lot of present days officers too. That takes guts!
Post by: BNAElkhntr on March 17, 2014, 11:12:15 AM
Post by: jackmaster on March 17, 2014, 11:16:37 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on March 17, 2014, 11:18:42 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Bordercop on March 17, 2014, 11:21:45 AM
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 17, 2014, 11:28:40 AM
Post by: TheHunt on March 17, 2014, 11:31:47 AM
Post by: ucwarden on March 17, 2014, 11:33:01 AM
UC WARDEN, if you can mail me a petition i will take it to big j's in orting, they get quite a few sportsman in there, if you could also right a letter to post next to the petition so people can see why they are signing that would be awesome, i am sure it would get a few signatures, i would just need to know how long to keep it there and when you need it back in hand, send it to BRANDON HOESEL P.O BOX 1444 ORTING, WA 98360. again THANK YOU for what you are doing :tup: :tup: :tup:
How about if I just email it to you?
I would like to have them back by April 5th.
Just mail them to my office at:
Todd Vandivert
Professional Polygraph Services
9515 N. Division, Suite 101
Spokane, WA 99218
Post by: ucwarden on March 17, 2014, 11:35:18 AM
I've got ten people that want to endorse but the site isn't working when you go to sign. Just FYI and we'll keep trying.
Thanks. I will see what I can do. I am not a computer wizard
Post by: ucwarden on March 17, 2014, 11:36:47 AM
I've got ten people that want to endorse but the site isn't working when you go to sign. Just FYI and we'll keep trying.
Looks like it is taking them now. Just checked and had a couple sign up in last 2 minutes
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 17, 2014, 11:37:34 AM
Will do it again.
Post by: ucwarden on March 17, 2014, 11:40:47 AM
You should bring a computer with you to the Big Horn Show and have people sign up there.
I will have two computers, but they will both be showing undercover videos from Operation Cody.
I am bringing paper petitions, since I know how to handle paper problems way better than computer issues.
I will have enough spare papers, so if anyone wants to take some I will have extras.
Also; I don't know if the fairgrounds have WiFi
Post by: YJ Guide Service on March 17, 2014, 11:48:49 AM
Post by: fishngamereaper on March 17, 2014, 11:51:28 AM
In June we will have to start a poll. Who signed the petition/ vs who got drawn for special permits. :chuckle:
Ive heard the drawing isn't always random.
Post by: ucwarden on March 17, 2014, 11:54:52 AM
Done. :tup:
In June we will have to start a poll. Who signed the petition/ vs who got drawn for special permits. :chuckle:
Ive heard the drawing isn't always random.
I kinda doubt they will screw with anyone, since that you move it into the realm of criminal behavior.
Post by: fishngamereaper on March 17, 2014, 12:06:31 PM
Done. :tup:
In June we will have to start a poll. Who signed the petition/ vs who got drawn for special permits. :chuckle:
Ive heard the drawing isn't always random.
I kinda doubt they will screw with anyone, since that you move it into the realm of criminal behavior.
Half the cr@p they do now is criminal enough. But I will put my camo'd tinfoil hat aside for now.
Post by: returnofsid on March 17, 2014, 12:15:29 PM
You should bring a computer with you to the Big Horn Show and have people sign up there.
Spokane County Fairgrounds does have Wi-Fi. I'll be there, Saturday and Sunday, representing Evergreen Archery Club.
I will have two computers, but they will both be showing undercover videos from Operation Cody.
I am bringing paper petitions, since I know how to handle paper problems way better than computer issues.
I will have enough spare papers, so if anyone wants to take some I will have extras.
Also; I don't know if the fairgrounds have WiFi
Post by: jackmaster on March 17, 2014, 12:17:24 PM
Post by: scoyoc5 on March 17, 2014, 12:24:16 PM
Post by: Mark Youngblood on March 17, 2014, 02:00:41 PM
http://www.change.org/petitions/washington-state-fish-and-wildlife-commission-remove-wdfw-director-phil-anderson-chief-steve-crown-and-deputy-chief-mike-cenci?utm_campaign=new_signature&utm_medium=email&utm_source=signature_receipt#share (http://www.change.org/petitions/washington-state-fish-and-wildlife-commission-remove-wdfw-director-phil-anderson-chief-steve-crown-and-deputy-chief-mike-cenci?utm_campaign=new_signature&utm_medium=email&utm_source=signature_receipt#share)
maybe try to cut and paste...I thoought the link would work....
Post by: 6x6in6 on March 17, 2014, 02:07:11 PM
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,149702.msg1986881/boardseen.html#new (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,149702.msg1986881/boardseen.html#new)
Post by: cougfan79 on March 17, 2014, 02:17:46 PM
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on March 17, 2014, 02:31:23 PM
When you create a void, be sure you now how it's going to be filled.
Post by: Gringo31 on March 17, 2014, 02:44:48 PM
But, I think that having to listen to some public outcry helps with the untouchableness of some in office. :twocents:
Post by: buckfvr on March 17, 2014, 02:48:15 PM
Post by: Bob33 on March 17, 2014, 02:48:35 PM
I think that's a decent question...The public outcry about George Bush brought us Barack Obama.
But, I think that having to listen to some public outcry helps with the untouchableness of some in office. :twocents:
Post by: jackmaster on March 17, 2014, 02:51:48 PM
Post by: Bob33 on March 17, 2014, 03:01:38 PM
Miranda Wecker
Occupation: Director of the Marine Program, UW Olympic Natural Resources Center
Larry Carpenter
Occupation: Business owner, Master Marine Services, Inc.
Jay Holzmiller
Occupation: Public Works
Jay Kehne
Occupation: Conservationist
Robert "Bob" Kehoe
Occupation: Executive Director, Purse Seine Vessel Owners' Assoc.
Conrad Mahnken, Ph.D.
Occupation: Retired, fisheries biologist
Rolland Schmitten
Occupation: Marine Resources Consultant
Post by: Tbar on March 17, 2014, 03:06:11 PM
:yeah:I think that's a decent question...The public outcry about George Bush brought us Barack Obama.
But, I think that having to listen to some public outcry helps with the untouchableness of some in office. :twocents:
I guess I'm in a huge minority when fearing the future director being worse than Anderson. If you look at who may step in even as an interim director it's scary. That said I do believe there should be some accountability and drastic changes.
Post by: Tbar on March 17, 2014, 03:08:31 PM
A new Director would be appointed by the Fish and Wildlife Commission. What characteristics do you think they will look for?This list along with at least one new Inslee appointee, possibly two when all said and done.
Miranda Wecker
Occupation: Director of the Marine Program, UW Olympic Natural Resources Center
Larry Carpenter
Occupation: Business owner, Master Marine Services, Inc.
Jay Holzmiller
Occupation: Public Works
Jay Kehne
Occupation: Conservationist
Robert "Bob" Kehoe
Occupation: Executive Director, Purse Seine Vessel Owners' Assoc.
Conrad Mahnken, Ph.D.
Occupation: Retired, fisheries biologist
Rolland Schmitten
Occupation: Marine Resources Consultant
Post by: trophyhunt on March 17, 2014, 03:08:58 PM
A new Director would be appointed by the Fish and Wildlife Commission. What characteristics do you think they will look for?:yike: I think we need a petition for new commissioners!! I'm guessing they would hire someone of the same qualities, someone who cares more about gouyducks*(speeled wrong!) than wildlife! Eitherway, these two jackwagons need to go.
Miranda Wecker
Occupation: Director of the Marine Program, UW Olympic Natural Resources Center
Larry Carpenter
Occupation: Business owner, Master Marine Services, Inc.
Jay Holzmiller
Occupation: Public Works
Jay Kehne
Occupation: Conservationist
Robert "Bob" Kehoe
Occupation: Executive Director, Purse Seine Vessel Owners' Assoc.
Conrad Mahnken, Ph.D.
Occupation: Retired, fisheries biologist
Rolland Schmitten
Occupation: Marine Resources Consultant
Post by: jackmaster on March 17, 2014, 03:14:17 PM
Post by: Tbar on March 17, 2014, 03:16:22 PM
Well Jay Kehnes nomination and confirmation went through very smoothly even though vehemently objected by sportsman. Just saying that's the unfortunate reality we live in.A new Director would be appointed by the Fish and Wildlife Commission. What characteristics do you think they will look for?:yike: I think we need a petition for new commissioners!! I'm guessing they would hire someone of the same qualities, someone who cares more about gouyducks*(speeled wrong!) than wildlife! Eitherway, these two jackwagons need to go.
Miranda Wecker
Occupation: Director of the Marine Program, UW Olympic Natural Resources Center
Larry Carpenter
Occupation: Business owner, Master Marine Services, Inc.
Jay Holzmiller
Occupation: Public Works
Jay Kehne
Occupation: Conservationist
Robert "Bob" Kehoe
Occupation: Executive Director, Purse Seine Vessel Owners' Assoc.
Conrad Mahnken, Ph.D.
Occupation: Retired, fisheries biologist
Rolland Schmitten
Occupation: Marine Resources Consultant
Post by: buckfvr on March 17, 2014, 03:32:10 PM
I think that's a decent question...The public outcry about George Bush brought us Barack Obama.
But, I think that having to listen to some public outcry helps with the untouchableness of some in office. :twocents:
Bush was done anyway, public deception brought about oblama...........nothing more.
Post by: huntnphool on March 17, 2014, 03:36:35 PM
Post by: Curly on March 17, 2014, 03:44:26 PM
Maybe it would work if there was some way to elect the commission with only voters who have active WILD id numbers. :dunno:
Post by: JLS on March 17, 2014, 03:44:57 PM
Only way it changes is through elections. Maybe a petition to make these elected positions.
....which would be an absolute disaster. How many commissioners do you want selected by non-hunters and/or anti-hunters?
Post by: huntnphool on March 17, 2014, 04:11:49 PM
How is that any diferent from what we have now? You can sign online petitons all you want, as long as we have a left wing liberal governor nothing is going to change for sportsman, thats the reality of it.Only way it changes is through elections. Maybe a petition to make these elected positions.
....which would be an absolute disaster. How many commissioners do you want selected by non-hunters and/or anti-hunters?
Post by: deltaops on March 17, 2014, 04:19:42 PM
Post by: stevemiller on March 17, 2014, 04:22:51 PM
So we have another taxation without representation, only its not us seperated by an ocean but a mountain instead.And as for the potitions that get signed left and right in this state I believe they should all be acompanied by a voter regestration number or they dont count. :twocents:How is that any diferent from what we have now? You can sign online petitons all you want, as long as we have a left wing liberal governor nothing is going to change for sportsman, thats the reality of it.Only way it changes is through elections. Maybe a petition to make these elected positions.
....which would be an absolute disaster. How many commissioners do you want selected by non-hunters and/or anti-hunters?
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on March 17, 2014, 04:24:27 PM
I think that's a decent question...The public outcry about George Bush brought us Barack Obama.
But, I think that having to listen to some public outcry helps with the untouchableness of some in office. :twocents:
Good point Bob.
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on March 17, 2014, 04:27:35 PM
Thats a good question Sitka. Me personally, and I know Todd is enjoying his retirement but when push comes to shove I hope he or someone just like him jumps in the running, WDFW needs a little old school action if you ask me, we need someone who wants to fight and not run, we need someone who will hold people accountable for their actions, and someone that will stand up for are wildlife of all walks... .not someone thats a yes man or with political asperations...
That's fair enough. Who do you have in mind? This can't be just about getting rid of somebody. It also has to be about who will take their place.
Post by: trophyhunt on March 17, 2014, 04:37:55 PM
Only way it changes is through elections. Maybe a petition to make these elected positions.i like that idea!
Post by: jackmaster on March 17, 2014, 04:41:59 PM
honestly the only person I have in mind is Todd, he knows what needs to be done and has live d itThats a good question Sitka. Me personally, and I know Todd is enjoying his retirement but when push comes to shove I hope he or someone just like him jumps in the running, WDFW needs a little old school action if you ask me, we need someone who wants to fight and not run, we need someone who will hold people accountable for their actions, and someone that will stand up for are wildlife of all walks... .not someone thats a yes man or with political asperations...
That's fair enough. Who do you have in mind? This can't be just about getting rid of somebody. It also has to be about who will take their place.
Post by: ucwarden on March 17, 2014, 04:46:28 PM
Just curious. If this petition somehow worked, who would you replace Anderson with and how would that person make things better? And do you believe this new person could actually get the job? Or are you going to get more of the same or even someone worse.
When you create a void, be sure you now how it's going to be filled.
Not to sound like a smart@#@, but I have no control over that. I assume the Deputy Director would take over at least on the short-term, but then we will all have to sit back and see what names come up. At that time we can all voice our opinions on who it should be.
Post by: huntnphool on March 17, 2014, 04:47:28 PM
So we have another taxation without representation, only its not us seperated by an ocean but a mountain instead.How is that any diferent from what we have now? You can sign online petitons all you want, as long as we have a left wing liberal governor nothing is going to change for sportsman, thats the reality of it.Only way it changes is through elections. Maybe a petition to make these elected positions.
....which would be an absolute disaster. How many commissioners do you want selected by non-hunters and/or anti-hunters?
Do you really see a difference in a liberal governor being elected and then appointing like minded tree hugging individuals to those positions, or allowing those positions be voted on individually? :chuckle:
Post by: huntnphool on March 17, 2014, 04:49:33 PM
Just curious. If this petition somehow worked, who would you replace Anderson with and how would that person make things better? And do you believe this new person could actually get the job? Or are you going to get more of the same or even someone worse.
When you create a void, be sure you now how it's going to be filled.
At that time we can all voice our opinions on who it should be.
Yeah, how'd that work out when Jay Kehne's name came up.
Post by: ucwarden on March 17, 2014, 04:50:05 PM
Thats a good question Sitka. Me personally, and I know Todd is enjoying his retirement but when push comes to shove I hope he or someone just like him jumps in the running, WDFW needs a little old school action if you ask me, we need someone who wants to fight and not run, we need someone who will hold people accountable for their actions, and someone that will stand up for are wildlife of all walks... .not someone thats a yes man or with political asperations...
That's fair enough. Who do you have in mind? This can't be just about getting rid of somebody. It also has to be about who will take their place.
If you are talking about the Director position; I have no idea. If you are talking about the Chief position, I can come up with several great options, including a Sgt. (Rich Phillips) who Chief Crown just demoted.
Trust me, nobody would even consider me (I am not exactly politically correct), and I have no desire to go back to WDFW nor to move to the west-side.
Post by: ucwarden on March 17, 2014, 04:51:26 PM
So we have another taxation without representation, only its not us seperated by an ocean but a mountain instead.How is that any diferent from what we have now? You can sign online petitons all you want, as long as we have a left wing liberal governor nothing is going to change for sportsman, thats the reality of it.Only way it changes is through elections. Maybe a petition to make these elected positions.
....which would be an absolute disaster. How many commissioners do you want selected by non-hunters and/or anti-hunters?
Do you really see a difference in a liberal governor being elected and then appointing like minded tree hugging individuals to those positions, or allowing those positions be voted on individually? :chuckle:
That is a very real point. No matter how you hold elections in this state, King County decides it all.
Post by: groundhog on March 17, 2014, 05:18:04 PM
Post by: ucwarden on March 17, 2014, 05:30:14 PM
Signed!!
Thanks. Now please don't forget to spread the word to everyone you can think of.
Post by: Halo on March 17, 2014, 05:40:34 PM
Post by: ucwarden on March 17, 2014, 06:22:04 PM
Signed.
Thanks
Post by: hub on March 17, 2014, 09:05:22 PM
Post by: ucwarden on March 18, 2014, 07:30:06 AM
To those who haven't signed, please do so:
http://www.change.org/petitions/washington-state-fish-and-wildlife-commission-remove-wdfw-director-phil-anderson-chief-steve-crown-and-deputy-chief-mike-cenci (http://www.change.org/petitions/washington-state-fish-and-wildlife-commission-remove-wdfw-director-phil-anderson-chief-steve-crown-and-deputy-chief-mike-cenci)
Post by: pianoman9701 on March 18, 2014, 07:55:13 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on March 18, 2014, 08:22:46 AM
Post by: Curly on March 18, 2014, 08:38:23 AM
Post by: buckfvr on March 18, 2014, 08:41:58 AM
Post by: flatbkman on March 18, 2014, 08:48:48 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on March 18, 2014, 08:49:01 AM
Post by: bigtex on March 18, 2014, 09:39:33 AM
http://forums.officer.com/t192750/#post3434945 (http://forums.officer.com/t192750/#post3434945)
Post by: huntnphool on March 18, 2014, 09:41:20 AM
The petition has been added to the forum on Officer.com which is essentially the law enforcement site in the country.:tup:
http://forums.officer.com/t192750/#post3434945 (http://forums.officer.com/t192750/#post3434945)
Post by: hntrspud on March 18, 2014, 09:42:19 AM
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on March 18, 2014, 09:46:36 AM
The petition has been added to the forum on Officer.com which is essentially the law enforcement site in the country.:tup:
http://forums.officer.com/t192750/#post3434945 (http://forums.officer.com/t192750/#post3434945)
:tup:
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on March 18, 2014, 09:48:50 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on March 18, 2014, 10:01:00 AM
Does Anderson and Cenci know this petition is going around by now? :dunno:I wonder myself?? I would like to see their reaction.
Post by: mulehunter on March 18, 2014, 10:04:06 AM
Post by: jackmaster on March 18, 2014, 10:06:17 AM
well my guess would be that guys like them are so friggin naive that they probably think its funny and that they are untouchable, maybe we will get lucky and they will become members here on hunt-wa..... oh wait one of them already was HUMANMANURE or something like that :chuckle:Does Anderson and Cenci know this petition is going around by now? :dunno:I wonder myself?? I would like to see their reaction.
Post by: bigtex on March 18, 2014, 10:12:47 AM
That one could get interesting. 1- Recently demoted Sergeant Rich Phillips is a frequent guest on the show 2- Anderson is also a frequent guest. 3- One of the show's host, is a former WDFW biologist
http://www.theoutdoorline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2192 (http://www.theoutdoorline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2192)
Post by: ucwarden on March 18, 2014, 10:21:16 AM
Complacency is counter productive on this issue..........everyone is needed to get this done. This couldnt happen at a better time. Lets move on this. :tup:
Thanks to everyone who has signed, and you are correct; there should be way more. If anyone has any concerns or questions, please contact me directly.
Post by: ucwarden on March 18, 2014, 10:22:56 AM
Does Anderson and Cenci know this petition is going around by now? :dunno:I wonder myself?? I would like to see their reaction.
I don't know, but I would be shocked if they haven't heard.
Post by: ucwarden on March 18, 2014, 10:26:18 AM
The petition has been added to the forum on Officer.com which is essentially the law enforcement site in the country.
http://forums.officer.com/t192750/#post3434945 (http://forums.officer.com/t192750/#post3434945)
Thanks again Bigtex!!!!
Post by: idahohuntr on March 18, 2014, 11:11:02 AM
:dunno: I was at a meeting a couple weeks ago sitting next to Steve Crown and I refrained from asking him about ucwarden or his book...he had nothing to say about it and talked a little about what his predecessor was up to...something about DUI patrols or something :dunno:Does Anderson and Cenci know this petition is going around by now? :dunno:I wonder myself?? I would like to see their reaction.
I don't know, but I would be shocked if they haven't heard.
Post by: Duckhunter14 on March 18, 2014, 11:22:28 AM
Post by: Triplej on March 18, 2014, 12:06:50 PM
Post by: ucwarden on March 18, 2014, 12:24:36 PM
Signed it and am reading the book operation cody I highly recommend it!
Thanks again to everyone who has stepped up, and a reminder to ask all your friends and family to do the same.
Post by: elkman54 on March 18, 2014, 12:45:06 PM
Post by: ucwarden on March 18, 2014, 12:50:16 PM
signed
Awesome. We are now over 400. 600 to go!!!!
Post by: bracer40 on March 18, 2014, 01:00:55 PM
Post by: et1702 on March 18, 2014, 01:09:43 PM
Signed and shared!
ET
Post by: combs338 on March 18, 2014, 01:14:15 PM
Post by: gottatree on March 18, 2014, 01:29:21 PM
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 18, 2014, 01:42:59 PM
Signed and shared. I was shocked to see some current and former employees on the list especially the ones that are getting close to retirement.
Can't say I'm terribly surprised but I am very glad they stepped up regardless :tup:
Post by: bearhunter99 on March 18, 2014, 02:11:22 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on March 18, 2014, 02:24:30 PM
Post by: Elkpiss on March 18, 2014, 02:55:45 PM
Post by: stormin85 on March 18, 2014, 02:59:41 PM
Post by: LITTLEBUCK on March 18, 2014, 03:00:26 PM
Post by: jackmaster on March 18, 2014, 03:03:03 PM
READ THE BOOK GUYS, if you do you will be all over this. Not that the book is the only reason. Good job so far :tup::yeah: :yeah: it will open your eyes guys, i knew there was alot of poaching but not even close to whats actually going on, holy crap. to top it all off the upper echelon, the guys behind the desk that are IN-CHARGE dont even give a rip, yet they want the kudos when a bust is actually made, there is no place in the WDFW for *censored*s like that :tup: it seems are fish and game are a joke to them....
Post by: ucwarden on March 18, 2014, 03:13:40 PM
Signed and shared. I was shocked to see some current and former employees on the list especially the ones that are getting close to retirement.
When I started the petition, I sent out an email to many of the present officers, who are my friends, and told them about it. I also warned them to strongly consider not signing it, but rather to have their friends and families sign instead, because of the very real fear of retaliation if this fails to make changes. Many of them signed anyway, and several have told me "it's time to stand up against what is happening". I admire them even more, but sure hope I am not digging them a hole. This better work, or I think there will be hell to pay.
Post by: ucwarden on March 18, 2014, 03:17:44 PM
READ THE BOOK GUYS, if you do you will be all over this. Not that the book is the only reason. Good job so far :tup::yeah: :yeah: it will open your eyes guys, i knew there was alot of poaching but not even close to whats actually going on, holy crap. to top it all off the upper echelon, the guys behind the desk that are IN-CHARGE dont even give a rip, yet they want the kudos when a bust is actually made, there is no place in the WDFW for *censored*s like that :tup: it seems are fish and game are a joke to them....
I have said this, on this forum before, but when I retired at the end of 2012 I made two predictions: One; that I wouldn't miss WDFW but I would miss some of the people I worked with, and second; that the enforcement program couldn't get any worse than it was at that moment.
I was correct on prediction #1, but way off on #2......it got way worse. Now is my opportunity to help all sportsmen out, as well as those fine officers I left behind. Hopefully, this works and game wardens can get back to game warden work!
Post by: jackmaster on March 18, 2014, 03:18:58 PM
i know you know this but tell them to document, in this day and age the public doesnt take to kindly to retaliation, and it doesnt matter what business it is, it is highly frowned upon, document document......it can save their jobs until retirement if nothing else :tup:Signed and shared. I was shocked to see some current and former employees on the list especially the ones that are getting close to retirement.
When I started the petition, I sent out an email to many of the present officers, who are my friends, and told them about it. I also warned them to strongly consider not signing it, but rather to have their friends and families sign instead, because of the very real fear of retaliation if this fails to make changes. Many of them signed anyway, and several have told me "it's time to stand up against what is happening". I admire them even more, but sure hope I am not digging them a hole. This better work, or I think there will be hell to pay.
Post by: trophyhunt on March 18, 2014, 03:20:14 PM
That is awsome of them to stick their neck out for you and for change!! I've been at my job for 23 years, my supervisor is a complete micro managing boutch. No one wants to work for him and if something like this was going on at my work, I'd sign the damn thing. Somethings are worth fighting for, I sure hope nothing happens to them but if it does I would hope they could sue the crap out of wdfw!Signed and shared. I was shocked to see some current and former employees on the list especially the ones that are getting close to retirement.
When I started the petition, I sent out an email to many of the present officers, who are my friends, and told them about it. I also warned them to strongly consider not signing it, but rather to have their friends and families sign instead, because of the very real fear of retaliation if this fails to make changes. Many of them signed anyway, and several have told me "it's time to stand up against what is happening". I admire them even more, but sure hope I am not digging them a hole. This better work, or I think there will be hell to pay.
Post by: ucwarden on March 18, 2014, 03:20:59 PM
i know you know this but tell them to document, in this day and age the public doesnt take to kindly to retaliation, and it doesnt matter what business it is, it is highly frowned upon, document document......it can save their jobs until retirement if nothing else :tup:Signed and shared. I was shocked to see some current and former employees on the list especially the ones that are getting close to retirement.
When I started the petition, I sent out an email to many of the present officers, who are my friends, and told them about it. I also warned them to strongly consider not signing it, but rather to have their friends and families sign instead, because of the very real fear of retaliation if this fails to make changes. Many of them signed anyway, and several have told me "it's time to stand up against what is happening". I admire them even more, but sure hope I am not digging them a hole. This better work, or I think there will be hell to pay.
They do know, but you have to understand; this is a run-away train right now, with absolutely nobody being held accountable.
Post by: ucwarden on March 18, 2014, 03:23:02 PM
That is awsome of them to stick their neck out for you and for change!! I've been at my job for 23 years, my supervisor is a complete micro managing boutch. No one wants to work for him and if something like this was going on at my work, I'd sign the damn thing. Somethings are worth fighting for, I sure hope nothing happens to them but if it does I would hope they could sue the crap out of wdfw!Signed and shared. I was shocked to see some current and former employees on the list especially the ones that are getting close to retirement.
When I started the petition, I sent out an email to many of the present officers, who are my friends, and told them about it. I also warned them to strongly consider not signing it, but rather to have their friends and families sign instead, because of the very real fear of retaliation if this fails to make changes. Many of them signed anyway, and several have told me "it's time to stand up against what is happening". I admire them even more, but sure hope I am not digging them a hole. This better work, or I think there will be hell to pay.
I think it was Lincoln who said something to the effect of; "Evil thrives where when good men fail to act". You are now seeing good men (and women) standing up for you, themselves and each other.
Post by: Kazekurt on March 18, 2014, 03:29:58 PM
Post by: ucwarden on March 18, 2014, 03:33:02 PM
I signed. I once really wanted to be a game warden in this state but that is probably never going to happen now. Oh well, you have to stand for what's right regardless of the consequences. If I decide to go that route in the future, I'll be looking into Montana FWP unless this state has a change of heart.
Don't give up yet, it is still a great state with great people. We just need some severe changes, but all states have problems. If we can fix this one, things should get way better. My first 20 to 25 years with WDFW were awesome, and I wouldn't have considered any other job. But then along came the dark ages we are going through now.
Post by: Tbar on March 18, 2014, 03:48:23 PM
Post by: ucwarden on March 18, 2014, 04:03:19 PM
Just a question, why us Hobbs not included with this group? It seems (and I say that as an outsider) his affiliations are with Crown and Cenci. Has he spoke out against the latest disciplinary actions?
I have been asked that by a couple of our employees. First of all, maybe I am naïve but I believe that deep down he is a good guy, just over-shadowed by the bad guys he works for. Secondly; he did a pretty fair job at keeping Cenci off my back during Operation Cody, which allowed it to run as long as it did. And last; if we get rid of Crown and Cenci, I am not sure he will have a place in Olympia anyway with whomever takes over.
Post by: trophyhunt on March 18, 2014, 06:31:39 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on March 18, 2014, 06:55:13 PM
Just a question, why us Hobbs not included with this group? It seems (and I say that as an outsider) his affiliations are with Crown and Cenci. Has he spoke out against the latest disciplinary actions?
I have been asked that by a couple of our employees. First of all, maybe I am naïve but I believe that deep down he is a good guy, just over-shadowed by the bad guys he works for. Secondly; he did a pretty fair job at keeping Cenci off my back during Operation Cody, which allowed it to run as long as it did. And last; if we get rid of Crown and Cenci, I am not sure he will have a place in Olympia anyway with whomever takes over.
I have personally talked to Hobbs numerous times and he is a good guy from what I can tell. Glad he wasn't included.
Post by: ucwarden on March 18, 2014, 07:01:08 PM
Bump for some more signatures.!!
Thanks....keep er going
Post by: Tbar on March 18, 2014, 07:11:21 PM
I am am outsider, but there are definite red flags that I see with him. Flags that have sure signs of affiliation with current management.Just a question, why us Hobbs not included with this group? It seems (and I say that as an outsider) his affiliations are with Crown and Cenci. Has he spoke out against the latest disciplinary actions?
I have been asked that by a couple of our employees. First of all, maybe I am naïve but I believe that deep down he is a good guy, just over-shadowed by the bad guys he works for. Secondly; he did a pretty fair job at keeping Cenci off my back during Operation Cody, which allowed it to run as long as it did. And last; if we get rid of Crown and Cenci, I am not sure he will have a place in Olympia anyway with whomever takes over.
I have personally talked to Hobbs numerous times and he is a good guy from what I can tell. Glad he wasn't included.
Post by: trophyhunt on March 18, 2014, 07:13:49 PM
Post by: PLUVIUSWAPITI on March 18, 2014, 07:26:26 PM
Post by: Harbor_hunter on March 18, 2014, 07:28:02 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on March 18, 2014, 07:29:34 PM
Post by: wadu1 on March 18, 2014, 07:30:49 PM
Post by: Kazekurt on March 18, 2014, 07:34:18 PM
Post by: ucwarden on March 18, 2014, 07:37:07 PM
UC, are you still selling copies of the book? I'm interested in buying one.
Yep, just go to: www.operationcody.com (http://www.operationcody.com) or come see me at the bighorn show this weekend
Post by: bullcanyon on March 18, 2014, 07:46:16 PM
Post by: ucwarden on March 18, 2014, 07:53:51 PM
Signed
Thanks
Post by: Houndhunter on March 18, 2014, 07:55:01 PM
Post by: jackelope on March 18, 2014, 08:01:07 PM
I know not everyone is commenting that they signed, but I'm wondering why I don't see many moderators commenting?
I signed it back when there was 3 replies to the thread. There...now I replied too.
Post by: trophyhunt on March 18, 2014, 08:06:37 PM
i feel much better now!!! Thanks josh! :chuckle:I know not everyone is commenting that they signed, but I'm wondering why I don't see many moderators commenting?
I signed it back when there was 3 replies to the thread. There...now I replied too.
Post by: Bshiftbc on March 18, 2014, 08:07:37 PM
Post by: bigtex on March 18, 2014, 08:12:23 PM
I've known Mike for almost 10 years and it started back when he was an officer in Ellensburg. I have to agree with UC and Vandeman on this one, he's a good guy. This whole 'show' is being ran into the ground by Crown and Cenci, obviously Hobbs is down in Olympia with them, but Crown and Cenci have been in Olympia a lot longer than Hobbs has been and they have the power. Hobbs is a wildlife guy, grew up on the eastside and spent most of his officer time in Kittitas County. I personally am glad to see he wasn't included in this.I am am outsider, but there are definite red flags that I see with him. Flags that have sure signs of affiliation with current management.I have personally talked to Hobbs numerous times and he is a good guy from what I can tell. Glad he wasn't included.Just a question, why us Hobbs not included with this group? It seems (and I say that as an outsider) his affiliations are with Crown and Cenci. Has he spoke out against the latest disciplinary actions?I have been asked that by a couple of our employees. First of all, maybe I am naïve but I believe that deep down he is a good guy, just over-shadowed by the bad guys he works for. Secondly; he did a pretty fair job at keeping Cenci off my back during Operation Cody, which allowed it to run as long as it did. And last; if we get rid of Crown and Cenci, I am not sure he will have a place in Olympia anyway with whomever takes over.
Post by: buckfvr on March 18, 2014, 08:17:32 PM
Can you sign if you're not a WA resident?
Why not..............out of staters are involved in much of WDFW policy making........
Post by: trophyhunt on March 18, 2014, 08:36:13 PM
Post by: Tbar on March 18, 2014, 08:41:40 PM
Post by: bigtex on March 18, 2014, 09:01:26 PM
Understandable Bigtex. I'm sure you know where I'm seeing affiliations with them. Phillips (a total region 4 guy) with all the experience and over qualified is told to pound sand when Hebners job became available, and Hobbs was hired (kittitas guy). When Crown took over for Bjork, instantly a new job is created (making the department even more top heavy). Hobbs gets the newly created #3 position alongside who, crown and Cenci.Oh I definitely see it. I can remember 5 years before Hebner even retired everyone was saying Phillips would get the job, and he didn't. Now as far the Deputy Chief's position I disagree. The "new" Deputy Chief's position went to Cenci. Crown took the position of Captain for the Marine Unit which Cenci self-demoted himself to last summer and made it into a Deputy Chief's position.
Post by: Kazekurt on March 18, 2014, 09:03:22 PM
Post by: whack em on March 18, 2014, 09:04:26 PM
Post by: olsy on March 18, 2014, 09:13:35 PM
Post by: Tbar on March 18, 2014, 09:46:13 PM
Understandable Bigtex. I'm sure you know where I'm seeing affiliations with them. Phillips (a total region 4 guy) with all the experience and over qualified is told to pound sand when Hebners job became available, and Hobbs was hired (kittitas guy). When Crown took over for Bjork, instantly a new job is created (making the department even more top heavy). Hobbs gets the newly created #3 position alongside who, crown and Cenci.Oh I definitely see it. I can remember 5 years before Hebner even retired everyone was saying Phillips would get the job, and he didn't. Now as far the Deputy Chief's position I disagree. The "new" Deputy Chief's position went to Cenci. Crown took the position of Captain for the Marine Unit which Cenci self-demoted himself to last summer and made it into a Deputy Chief's position.
T hanks for the insight. I was (and still am on the fence) due to the recent actions/disciplines against Jones and Phillips. I would love to hear that Hobbs was not in agreement with the demotion and termination. As I see it Hobbs has oversight responsibilities (although I know it was Crown who had final say). I think there are legitimate questions of Hobbs, including but not limited to, was due process followed? Was Jones termination justified? Were these disciplinary actions fair and consistent with department policy? Were these actions (by the department) retaliatory? He took the DC job and I feel it is fair to question his involvement (or lack of, we don't know).
Post by: bearkautz on March 18, 2014, 10:34:40 PM
Post by: sakoshooter on March 19, 2014, 02:37:31 AM
Post by: ucwarden on March 19, 2014, 06:35:33 AM
If possible I'd like to see Phillips take over . if he is even interested ?
Right now his priority is recovering from hip replacement, then it will be trying to get his stripes back, after that...you would have to ask him.
Post by: jackmaster on March 19, 2014, 06:39:41 AM
Just bought the book!yor gonna love it, but i must warn you, if you have high blood pressure, then take a bp pill before you read the last half :chuckle: :tup: its a great book, it will open your eyes for sure :tup:
Post by: ucwarden on March 19, 2014, 07:06:08 AM
Post by: ucwarden on March 19, 2014, 08:15:24 AM
Post by: YJ Guide Service on March 19, 2014, 08:23:31 AM
Post by: whacker1 on March 19, 2014, 08:37:55 AM
We are hung up at 494.....come on, give me 6 more this morning so we can reach the 1/2 way point!
ucwarden, i bumped it to 496. But I have a comment that I would like to make here. I don't know that 1000 signatures is going to be significant enough to get the reaction you want as compared to the number of licenses sold or even by the number of voters.
I assume you already know this, but you are going to have to pull the media card as well as get some buy in from some legislators. If the legislators from Eastern Washington are on board then you may have the political capital you need to get some real momentum in Olympia.
Post by: stromdiddily on March 19, 2014, 08:52:31 AM
Post by: Special T on March 19, 2014, 09:28:16 AM
Post by: JJD on March 19, 2014, 12:53:56 PM
UC, are you still selling copies of the book? I'm interested in buying one.
Yep, just go to: www.operationcody.com (http://www.operationcody.com) or come see me at the bighorn show this weekend
I'll be workin the BigHorn show on Thur, where will I find you?
Post by: ucwarden on March 19, 2014, 01:10:47 PM
We are hung up at 494.....come on, give me 6 more this morning so we can reach the 1/2 way point!
ucwarden, i bumped it to 496. But I have a comment that I would like to make here. I don't know that 1000 signatures is going to be significant enough to get the reaction you want as compared to the number of licenses sold or even by the number of voters.
I assume you already know this, but you are going to have to pull the media card as well as get some buy in from some legislators. If the legislators from Eastern Washington are on board then you may have the political capital you need to get some real momentum in Olympia.
I do realize that, but it's not the quantity but the speed in which it was reached. If I can 1,000 in a week (which it looks like we will have), that speaks very loudly. I will keep going, even after we have 1,000, but 1,000 in one week should get anyone's attention.
Post by: ucwarden on March 19, 2014, 01:12:21 PM
UC, are you still selling copies of the book? I'm interested in buying one.
Yep, just go to: www.operationcody.com (http://www.operationcody.com) or come see me at the bighorn show this weekend
I'll be workin the BigHorn show on Thur, where will I find you?
I think it's booth #57, it's over by the beer garden. I will be there the whole time except of Friday (I have to give a bunch of polygraphs until 5pm on Friday).
Post by: buckfvr on March 19, 2014, 02:27:10 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on March 19, 2014, 02:29:01 PM
Right now, and I read your book and have frustrations about the level of incompetence in WDFW enforcement...lots of frustrations, I think its pretty easy to just label you as a disgruntled former employee trying to get back at your old bosses/employer. I think there are more effective ways to bring about change than a mass petition and I would be curious if you or others who want this change have explored other options. :twocents:
Post by: buckfvr on March 19, 2014, 02:33:15 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on March 19, 2014, 03:03:25 PM
If you know of a more effective way to bring change, by all means , please share it with us.............I don't know what else ucwarden has tried. But a letter signed by the heads of multiple conservation organizations representing large numbers of hunters, elected officials (state legislators, commissioners etc.) would probably get a lot more notice/attention than a random petition delivered to the commission.
Post by: jackmaster on March 19, 2014, 03:05:55 PM
If you know of a more effective way to bring change, by all means , please share it with us.............:yeah: :yeah: everyone is open to suggestions, atleast UCWARDEN isnt sittn on his thumbs cryin about what could be and what should be, he is stepping up, we all have are gripes, has anyone stepped up to this point other than sending of emails :dunno:
Post by: buckfvr on March 19, 2014, 03:14:08 PM
If you know of a more effective way to bring change, by all means , please share it with us.............I don't know what else ucwarden has tried. But a letter signed by the heads of multiple conservation organizations representing large numbers of hunters, elected officials (state legislators, commissioners etc.) would probably get a lot more notice/attention than a random petition delivered to the commission.
You get on that, and we'll have your back, just like we have ucs' back.....since hes the only one getting after it, we go with him.
Post by: Curly on March 19, 2014, 03:25:29 PM
I also have to ask...did you discuss your concerns with the Wildlife Commission or is this just an out of the blue petition?
The commission is a joke. I've lost any faith in them.
I do agree though, in general with most of your comments. This petition may not do any good, but maybe it is a start. Maybe it will get some people to pay attention. At least he's trying something.
Post by: bigtex on March 19, 2014, 04:57:11 PM
Getting conservation groups to sign on may not be that easy, especially the bigger the group. The bigger the group, the more political they are. As an example, here's the President of Puget Sound Angler's response to the petition:If you know of a more effective way to bring change, by all means , please share it with us.............I don't know what else ucwarden has tried. But a letter signed by the heads of multiple conservation organizations representing large numbers of hunters, elected officials (state legislators, commissioners etc.) would probably get a lot more notice/attention than a random petition delivered to the commission.
"I am sorry to hear this. Sounds like a top detective is no longer at WDFW.
I dont know Steven yet, but know Phil and Mike well and they deal with many issues that are not privvy to the average individual. They do far more for us than anyone will ever know. As bad as our issues are, most have no idea of the amount that is taken care of we never see as it would be much worse.
I talk and work with them often and completely disagree with removing any of them. Mike Cenci is the driving force that busted the huge black market crab ring among many other gross negligence busts.
I never wanted to get involved in politics but had to to save some of our fisheries. Unfortunately it is all politics and sometimes it doesn't go our way. But that is reality.
Ron Garner
President
Puget Sound Anglers"
http://www.theoutdoorline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2192 (http://www.theoutdoorline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2192)
Post by: huntnphool on March 19, 2014, 05:01:41 PM
Getting conservation groups to sign on may not be that easy, especially the bigger the group. The bigger the group, the more political they are. As an example, here's the President of Puget Sound Angler's response to the petition:If you know of a more effective way to bring change, by all means , please share it with us.............I don't know what else ucwarden has tried. But a letter signed by the heads of multiple conservation organizations representing large numbers of hunters, elected officials (state legislators, commissioners etc.) would probably get a lot more notice/attention than a random petition delivered to the commission.
"I am sorry to hear this. Sounds like a top detective is no longer at WDFW.
I dont know Steven yet, but know Phil and Mike well and they deal with many issues that are not privvy to the average individual. They do far more for us than anyone will ever know. As bad as our issues are, most have no idea of the amount that is taken care of we never see as it would be much worse.
I talk and work with them often and completely disagree with removing any of them. Mike Cenci is the driving force that busted the huge black market crab ring among many other gross negligence busts.
I never wanted to get involved in politics but had to to save some of our fisheries. Unfortunately it is all politics and sometimes it doesn't go our way. But that is reality.
Ron Garner
President
Puget Sound Anglers"
http://www.theoutdoorline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2192 (http://www.theoutdoorline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2192)
I'd like to know Mr. Garners position on hatcheries.
Post by: ucwarden on March 19, 2014, 05:06:18 PM
I don't see this going anywhere unless you can clearly articulate what specifically these guys have done (or not done) and provide strong corroborating evidence to support your claims. You also need to articulate your solutions to the problems you perceive. This needs to be part of your petition IMO. I also have to ask...did you discuss your concerns with the Wildlife Commission or is this just an out of the blue petition? There are some 500,000 hunters/anglers in WDFW's license database...1,000 signatures is 0.2% of those folks.
Right now, and I read your book and have frustrations about the level of incompetence in WDFW enforcement...lots of frustrations, I think its pretty easy to just label you as a disgruntled former employee trying to get back at your old bosses/employer. I think there are more effective ways to bring about change than a mass petition and I would be curious if you or others who want this change have explored other options. :twocents:
No worries, I have plenty more. Stand by
Post by: ucwarden on March 19, 2014, 05:09:31 PM
Getting conservation groups to sign on may not be that easy, especially the bigger the group. The bigger the group, the more political they are. As an example, here's the President of Puget Sound Angler's response to the petition:If you know of a more effective way to bring change, by all means , please share it with us.............I don't know what else ucwarden has tried. But a letter signed by the heads of multiple conservation organizations representing large numbers of hunters, elected officials (state legislators, commissioners etc.) would probably get a lot more notice/attention than a random petition delivered to the commission.
"I am sorry to hear this. Sounds like a top detective is no longer at WDFW.
I dont know Steven yet, but know Phil and Mike well and they deal with many issues that are not privvy to the average individual. They do far more for us than anyone will ever know. As bad as our issues are, most have no idea of the amount that is taken care of we never see as it would be much worse.
I talk and work with them often and completely disagree with removing any of them. Mike Cenci is the driving force that busted the huge black market crab ring among many other gross negligence busts.
I never wanted to get involved in politics but had to to save some of our fisheries. Unfortunately it is all politics and sometimes it doesn't go our way. But that is reality.
Ron Garner
President
Puget Sound Anglers"
http://www.theoutdoorline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2192 (http://www.theoutdoorline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2192)
That's great. If he had read my book he would understand that Cenci loves shellfish and shellfish cases, so if one is into shellfish you are going to love him. But the same Deputy Chief of Fish and Wildlife has stated "Nobody gives a s@#$ about deer and elk". How's that feel if your thing happens to be elk and not clams?
Post by: jackmaster on March 19, 2014, 05:20:45 PM
Post by: ucwarden on March 19, 2014, 05:27:41 PM
Getting conservation groups to sign on may not be that easy, especially the bigger the group. The bigger the group, the more political they are. As an example, here's the President of Puget Sound Angler's response to the petition:If you know of a more effective way to bring change, by all means , please share it with us.............I don't know what else ucwarden has tried. But a letter signed by the heads of multiple conservation organizations representing large numbers of hunters, elected officials (state legislators, commissioners etc.) would probably get a lot more notice/attention than a random petition delivered to the commission.
"I am sorry to hear this. Sounds like a top detective is no longer at WDFW.
I dont know Steven yet, but know Phil and Mike well and they deal with many issues that are not privvy to the average individual. They do far more for us than anyone will ever know. As bad as our issues are, most have no idea of the amount that is taken care of we never see as it would be much worse.
I talk and work with them often and completely disagree with removing any of them. Mike Cenci is the driving force that busted the huge black market crab ring among many other gross negligence busts.
I never wanted to get involved in politics but had to to save some of our fisheries. Unfortunately it is all politics and sometimes it doesn't go our way. But that is reality.
Ron Garner
President
Puget Sound Anglers"
http://www.theoutdoorline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2192 (http://www.theoutdoorline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2192)
FYI, I didn't know that forum existed, but I just registered and responded.
Post by: trophyhunt on March 19, 2014, 06:21:00 PM
I don't see this going anywhere unless you can clearly articulate what specifically these guys have done (or not done) and provide strong corroborating evidence to support your claims. You also need to articulate your solutions to the problems you perceive. This needs to be part of your petition IMO. I also have to ask...did you discuss your concerns with the Wildlife Commission or is this just an out of the blue petition? There are some 500,000 hunters/anglers in WDFW's license database...1,000 signatures is 0.2% of those folks.:bash: :bash:man we bitch and complain about tribes, wolves and the direction fish and game has been going. I'm not going to question a guy trying to legitimately make changes?! Will it work? Who knows, but sitting on your arse will absolutely get you no where! Thanks a million ucwarden!!
Right now, and I read your book and have frustrations about the level of incompetence in WDFW enforcement...lots of frustrations, I think its pretty easy to just label you as a disgruntled former employee trying to get back at your old bosses/employer. I think there are more effective ways to bring about change than a mass petition and I would be curious if you or others who want this change have explored other options. :twocents:
Post by: idahohuntr on March 19, 2014, 06:30:23 PM
And I am not throwing this out there to just be a jerk...I think there are legitimate issues to address with WDFW enforcement...but you have to approach this in a way that you can win. For example, if you can articulate that WDFW is not focusing on elk poaching enough, then provide the corroborating evidence and get a group like RMEF to perk up and say "hey...whats going on wdfw...you guys are dropping the ball on elk with your over-zealous focus on shellfish". To just go out and say Cenci needs to be fired is going to be dismissed as you simply being a disgruntled employee. Bigtex's posted response from the puget sound guy is a perfect example.
I don't know enough about the specific problems and evidence of the problems (sounds like some of the LEO folks do though) and I sure don't have the solutions...which is the other piece lacking in the petition. No credible group is going to get much traction without providing their solutions to the problems. Some of the best advice I have ever had in working with different people and groups was never to present a problem without some sort of solution.
A while ago you (ucwarden) started collecting ideas on this forum for laws to change/modify to present to the commission...did you ever do anything with that? I spent a few hours writing down changes I would propose that I sent you. That is the kind of thing I think you can do to build a relationship with commissioners/conservation groups and be seen as a problem solver as opposed to a disgruntled employee. Also, I think focusing on eliminating some of the absurd and stupid laws WDFW enforces would do a lot of good for sportsmen...probably a lot more good than firing a couple of administrators that will get replaced with different administrators.
Post by: trophyhunt on March 19, 2014, 07:03:28 PM
I guess my bigger point is that to be credible you have to attack the problem, not the individuals...not saying the individuals are not the problem, but what specifically are they failing at? I know darn well no big conservation groups are going to sign on to the petition as written because it appears to be a pissing match between former colleagues.obviously your heart is in it for change. This really has nothing to do with a disgruntled employee going after his ex-bosses. Ucwarden is retired and I believe just really cares about our fish and game. This is a very unselfish act and its all about changing the direction the department is heading. Getting these guys fired is a great start, cenci should have been arrested for his actions at the raid in Tacoma. We are on the same side, change has to start somewhere.
And I am not throwing this out there to just be a jerk...I think there are legitimate issues to address with WDFW enforcement...but you have to approach this in a way that you can win. For example, if you can articulate that WDFW is not focusing on elk poaching enough, then provide the corroborating evidence and get a group like RMEF to perk up and say "hey...whats going on wdfw...you guys are dropping the ball on elk with your over-zealous focus on shellfish". To just go out and say Cenci needs to be fired is going to be dismissed as you simply being a disgruntled employee. Bigtex's posted response from the puget sound guy is a perfect example.
I don't know enough about the specific problems and evidence of the problems (sounds like some of the LEO folks do though) and I sure don't have the solutions...which is the other piece lacking in the petition. No credible group is going to get much traction without providing their solutions to the problems. Some of the best advice I have ever had in working with different people and groups was never to present a problem without some sort of solution.
A while ago you (ucwarden) started collecting ideas on this forum for laws to change/modify to present to the commission...did you ever do anything with that? I spent a few hours writing down changes I would propose that I sent you. That is the kind of thing I think you can do to build a relationship with commissioners/conservation groups and be seen as a problem solver as opposed to a disgruntled employee. Also, I think focusing on eliminating some of the absurd and stupid laws WDFW enforces would do a lot of good for sportsmen...probably a lot more good than firing a couple of administrators that will get replaced with different administrators.
Post by: jackelope on March 19, 2014, 07:12:32 PM
Post by: buckfvr on March 19, 2014, 07:26:37 PM
We the hunters on this forum are going to once again find ourselves in the unenviable position of being in the minority by a long ways.....They have a huge puget sound basin following of folks who only see what they are interested in, and that is in most cases not shared by us on here.
We will put pressure everywhere we can and hope heads roll......THe guys are totally political, and that says it all.........NOT TO BE TRUSTED !!!!!!
Post by: trophyhunt on March 19, 2014, 07:34:24 PM
I've gotten a few messages with positive comments regarding Director Anderson. Comments that he is taking the dept in a more positive direction than any if the past directors. Other comments saying the dept is a little lopsided in favor of fisheries, but getting better. Other comments saying he's the best director the dept has had in a few decades. I haven't been in this state for very long compared to the rest of you guys and don't really have a solid opinion on this. Thoughts??most of my anger comes from the facts from the book, I can't remember if you read operation Cody or not Josh? The actions of the top brass in that book alone should get them removed, the constant illegal native kills(even against their own laws) being ignored, and just my own personal feelings on the wolf invasion. Non native wolves should have been addressed front and center, they should have confronted the subject before it became a problem. I wish I had more for ya but the book for me is enough to want change.
Post by: Landowner on March 19, 2014, 07:35:26 PM
He's as ethical a person as you will ever meet. Fortunately, he doesn't think any employee of WDFW is bigger than the Department or its reason for existence.
He's not gonna take action unless there's a very compelling reason to do so.
Post by: trophyhunt on March 19, 2014, 07:48:25 PM
I know UCWarden.:tup:
He's as ethical a person as you will ever meet. Fortunately, he doesn't think any employee of WDFW is bigger than the Department or its reason for existence.
He's not gonna take action unless there's a very compelling reason to do so.
Post by: bobcat on March 19, 2014, 07:54:31 PM
The second issue would be the commercial poaching that many of us read about in Todd Vandivert's book. The WDFW doesn't seem concerned about the poaching of wildlife, they put the majority of their resources into fish and shellfish. That's wonderful if you're a fisherman, but I'm not. Maybe I'm selfish but I want more deer and elk to hunt, and I want less of them going to the poachers, the tribes, and the predators.
Which brings up a third issue. I am sure the WDFW could allow hunting over bait for bears on a limited basis, along with hound hunting for bears and cougars. Yes the voters banned those things but there are ways around that, but obviously the WDFW isn't interested in increasing the harvest of bears and cougars, so that we humans can have more deer and elk to kill every year.
Post by: Huntin4Ever on March 19, 2014, 08:00:36 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on March 19, 2014, 08:04:13 PM
Post by: Huntin4Ever on March 19, 2014, 08:11:46 PM
Is there a way to see the list of who's signing and where they are from?
[/quote
Go back to the petition page and it lists the last 10-15 signees
Post by: Huntin4Ever on March 19, 2014, 08:14:13 PM
Post by: ucwarden on March 19, 2014, 08:53:38 PM
I guess my bigger point is that to be credible you have to attack the problem, not the individuals...not saying the individuals are not the problem, but what specifically are they failing at? I know darn well no big conservation groups are going to sign on to the petition as written because it appears to be a pissing match between former colleagues.
And I am not throwing this out there to just be a jerk...I think there are legitimate issues to address with WDFW enforcement...but you have to approach this in a way that you can win. For example, if you can articulate that WDFW is not focusing on elk poaching enough, then provide the corroborating evidence and get a group like RMEF to perk up and say "hey...whats going on wdfw...you guys are dropping the ball on elk with your over-zealous focus on shellfish". To just go out and say Cenci needs to be fired is going to be dismissed as you simply being a disgruntled employee. Bigtex's posted response from the puget sound guy is a perfect example.
I don't know enough about the specific problems and evidence of the problems (sounds like some of the LEO folks do though) and I sure don't have the solutions...which is the other piece lacking in the petition. No credible group is going to get much traction without providing their solutions to the problems. Some of the best advice I have ever had in working with different people and groups was never to present a problem without some sort of solution.
A while ago you (ucwarden) started collecting ideas on this forum for laws to change/modify to present to the commission...did you ever do anything with that? I spent a few hours writing down changes I would propose that I sent you. That is the kind of thing I think you can do to build a relationship with commissioners/conservation groups and be seen as a problem solver as opposed to a disgruntled employee. Also, I think focusing on eliminating some of the absurd and stupid laws WDFW enforces would do a lot of good for sportsmen...probably a lot more good than firing a couple of administrators that will get replaced with different administrators.
There are more problems than we have time to discuss. Also; there is no chance we will all ever agree on everything. That being said, when you have the number of WDFW employees signing the petition, that should tell you there is a huge problem.
I know it's killing a lot of you to know if there is a smoking gun, or something in particular to point out, and all I can ask is....be patient, it's coming. But the timing ha to be right. I want to have all my ducks in a row, before I fire both barrels, and the petition is just a piece of it.
Post by: ucwarden on March 19, 2014, 08:57:34 PM
I've gotten a few messages with positive comments regarding Director Anderson. Comments that he is taking the dept in a more positive direction than any if the past directors. Other comments saying the dept is a little lopsided in favor of fisheries, but getting better. Other comments saying he's the best director the dept has had in a few decades. I haven't been in this state for very long compared to the rest of you guys and don't really have a solid opinion on this. Thoughts??
Look, I have nothing against the director personally, it is just that he has allowed a few bad people to run wild, and it has deeply affected a lot of really good officers. We are losing good game wardens at an unprecedented rate, and as a result of that our resources are going to take it in the shorts. It's that simple.
Post by: ucwarden on March 19, 2014, 09:02:00 PM
I know UCWarden.
He's as ethical a person as you will ever meet. Fortunately, he doesn't think any employee of WDFW is bigger than the Department or its reason for existence.
He's not gonna take action unless there's a very compelling reason to do so.
Thanks, that's great to hear. I retired after 34 years, but I still think of it as going out early. Had it not been for the administration, I probably would still be at it. Unfortunately, I left behind some great folks and now they are suffering. So this is part personal, and a great deal professional. I sincerely want the best for our officers, the hunters of the state and the resources and that's it.
Post by: LongTatLaw on March 19, 2014, 09:44:18 PM
If i didnt hunt lots of states every year I might get confused here and think all game wardens hate sportsmen and all game departments see us as marks to be taxed.
Hope to see an attitude change. Personnel change or not.
Post by: SkookumHntr on March 19, 2014, 09:50:02 PM
Post by: ELKBURGER on March 20, 2014, 05:45:00 AM
Post by: jackmaster on March 20, 2014, 06:40:29 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on March 20, 2014, 07:36:55 AM
Post by: ucwarden on March 20, 2014, 07:37:36 AM
i love the number it has reached so far, keep signing fellas, there can be alot more if everyone on this site signed it, it isnt a conspiracy peeps, its someone standing up for are rights and most of all are game animals, people want there kids and their kids kids to be able to hunt, well that isnt gonna happen without a change :tup:
Thanks, yet again, for all the support
Post by: CoryTDF on March 20, 2014, 08:13:58 AM
Post by: ucwarden on March 20, 2014, 09:06:49 AM
I will be there the entire show, except on Friday when I won't get there until about 5pm (my wife and some friends will be manning the booth while I am gone).
Take care, and have a great weekend.
Keep gathering signatures and I hope to meet some of you at the show!
Post by: gottatree on March 20, 2014, 09:12:00 AM
Post by: jackmaster on March 20, 2014, 09:15:57 AM
Post by: ucwarden on March 20, 2014, 09:29:57 AM
And that speaks volumes in itself to UCWARDEN , he is not willing to smear them in the mud on an open forum..... I will follow while he leads the way :tup:
It's more than that. I know for certain that the information on this forum is making it's way to the very people I am working to remove, so I am very careful about tipping my hand. I don't want the opposing team to see my playbook....keep em guessing, but there is way more to come.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on March 20, 2014, 09:43:07 AM
Post by: gottatree on March 20, 2014, 09:46:42 AM
Post by: gottatree on March 20, 2014, 10:01:25 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on March 20, 2014, 12:36:17 PM
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 20, 2014, 12:47:45 PM
Post by: huntnphool on March 20, 2014, 12:57:49 PM
And that's a shame. I have had nothing but positive experience with officers in the field and I'd hate to see good officers leaving because of the politics in administration.I've gotten a few messages with positive comments regarding Director Anderson. Comments that he is taking the dept in a more positive direction than any if the past directors. Other comments saying the dept is a little lopsided in favor of fisheries, but getting better. Other comments saying he's the best director the dept has had in a few decades. I haven't been in this state for very long compared to the rest of you guys and don't really have a solid opinion on this. Thoughts??
Look, I have nothing against the director personally, it is just that he has allowed a few bad people to run wild, and it has deeply affected a lot of really good officers. We are losing good game wardens at an unprecedented rate, and as a result of that our resources are going to take it in the shorts. It's that simple.
Post by: ucwarden on March 20, 2014, 09:02:22 PM
Anyone know what booth ucwarden is running at the Bighorn Show?
We are right next to the Eastern Washington State University Sportsman club, I think it's booth 65, across from booth 27.
Post by: jackmaster on March 21, 2014, 09:49:40 AM
Post by: Wacenturion on March 21, 2014, 11:01:35 AM
I've gotten a few messages with positive comments regarding Director Anderson. Comments that he is taking the dept in a more positive direction than any if the past directors. Other comments saying the dept is a little lopsided in favor of fisheries, but getting better. Other comments saying he's the best director the dept has had in a few decades. I haven't been in this state for very long compared to the rest of you guys and don't really have a solid opinion on this. Thoughts??
From a 30 year retired WDFW employee myself, that is a complete falsehood. Although there were problems before merger in both old Dept. of Wildlife and Dept. of Fisheries in 1993, it has gone downhill ever since. Fisheries even back before merger was more commercially oriented in their policy. Consider for a moment that old Wildlife had approximately 600 employees tops. Fisheries had close to 1000, plus or minus (don't remember the exact number). Add into the equation the focus on salmon restoration over the past 20 years and essentially wildlife gets left in the dust.
One only has to look at the previous policy choices driven by salmon issues. First a Director chosen from Alaska in 1999, who was probably the worst Director the Dept ever had in my opinion (as well as many others in WDFW then), and a subsequent hire by the Commission of his chosen assistant when he left. I could shed some additional light based on my opinion, but for now I'll just leave it at that. Don't get me wrong, salmon should be a priority, but so should many other things.
I also agree with one of the above statements...The Commission is a joke. Nothing but a politically accommodating body who puts what appears to be, an acceptable stamp of approval on something of policy or regulation. Just like lesser entities of the agency's Game Management Council and other policy groups. In reality it is just another storefront to manipulate the public.
The comment from the President of the Puget Sound Anglers, to me, is coming more from a perspective of his position actually having contact with the upper management at WDFW, rubbing shoulder so to speak, than actually knowing just how bad the current administration is. :twocents:
I have always said during my career that there are two types of public employees, one who spends his or her time working for the public interest, and one who spends time working for their self interest. Unfortunately the prior has little time to engage in the political backstabbing arena that propels one up the chain of command. The latter does. Those latter ones in general are the ones running the agency and programs within, and setting policy. It's really just that simple.
ucwarden now has the time to do what he feels is necessary. Before he was too busy doing his job for all of you, while fending off all the political crap from within. Lots of good folks, or at least there used to be in the agency, as I've been retired 11 1/2 years now. Would have worked longer, but just had enough. Unfortunately if you try to do what's right for the license buying public, you quickly butt heads with others who don't hold the same values. For what it worth.
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 21, 2014, 11:59:36 AM
Anyone know what booth ucwarden is running at the Bighorn Show?
We are right next to the Eastern Washington State University Sportsman club, I think it's booth 65, across from booth 27.
Thanks! I'll check it out, I'd like to thank you in person and see what you guys have up.
Post by: HighCountryHunter88 on March 21, 2014, 04:23:46 PM
Post by: HntnFsh on March 21, 2014, 04:35:52 PM
Thank you for your input. I really appreciate it. Sounds like your reinforcing what ucwarden and some others have had to say. Gotta be sad for you guys to see the direction WDFW has gone!
Post by: returnofsid on March 21, 2014, 05:20:00 PM
has anyone else gotten any spamming emails from this change website? im getting emails to sign other things that i dont know anything about? :dunno:
Yes, quite a few in the past couple days. There was probably a tiny box I was supposed to either check, or uncheck, hidden somewhere...
Post by: Huntin4Ever on March 21, 2014, 05:40:50 PM
bump for hopefully some more signatures, anyone know what the number is up to now? i had taken a binder with 20 pages worth of petitions to be signed to BIG Js in orting, i thought i would hit the jackpot of signatures there, well the owner called me yesterday and told me to come pick it up, and that they dont want to display it there :dunno: kinda sucks if you ask me, its a sporting goods store, for the sportsman. is it illegal for a sporting goods store to display a petition? kinda depressing, i have done alot of shopping there over the years, even before it was BIG Js, well the short of it is, i wont be shopping there anymore, i know one person doesnt make a differance in their income but i dont care, i would rather go to the sportsmans wharehouse anyways, more guns and all around more toys for men :chuckle: :tup:
834 signatures
Post by: vandeman17 on March 21, 2014, 05:50:19 PM
has anyone else gotten any spamming emails from this change website? im getting emails to sign other things that i dont know anything about? :dunno:
Yes, quite a few in the past couple days. There was probably a tiny box I was supposed to either check, or uncheck, hidden somewhere...
When you get an email scroll to the bottom and click unsubscribe
Post by: returnofsid on March 21, 2014, 05:58:41 PM
has anyone else gotten any spamming emails from this change website? im getting emails to sign other things that i dont know anything about? :dunno:
Yes, quite a few in the past couple days. There was probably a tiny box I was supposed to either check, or uncheck, hidden somewhere...
When you get an email scroll to the bottom and click unsubscribe
Keep meaning to do that but end up hitting delete lol
Post by: HighCountryHunter88 on March 21, 2014, 06:25:08 PM
has anyone else gotten any spamming emails from this change website? im getting emails to sign other things that i dont know anything about? :dunno:
Yes, quite a few in the past couple days. There was probably a tiny box I was supposed to either check, or uncheck, hidden somewhere...
When you get an email scroll to the bottom and click unsubscribe
10-4 :tup:
Post by: northwesthunter84 on March 21, 2014, 06:48:18 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on March 21, 2014, 06:53:39 PM
I agree 100% ...thanks for summing it up :tup:I've gotten a few messages with positive comments regarding Director Anderson. Comments that he is taking the dept in a more positive direction than any if the past directors. Other comments saying the dept is a little lopsided in favor of fisheries, but getting better. Other comments saying he's the best director the dept has had in a few decades. I haven't been in this state for very long compared to the rest of you guys and don't really have a solid opinion on this. Thoughts??
From a 30 year retired WDFW employee myself, that is a complete falsehood. Although there were problems before merger in both old Dept. of Wildlife and Dept. of Fisheries in 1993, it has gone downhill ever since. Fisheries even back before merger was more commercially oriented in their policy. Consider for a moment that old Wildlife had approximately 600 employees tops. Fisheries had close to 1000, plus or minus (don't remember the exact number). Add into the equation the focus on salmon restoration over the past 20 years and essentially wildlife gets left in the dust.
One only has to look at the previous policy choices driven by salmon issues. First a Director chosen from Alaska in 1999, who was probably the worst Director the Dept ever had in my opinion (as well as many others in WDFW then), and a subsequent hire by the Commission of his chosen assistant when he left. I could shed some additional light based on my opinion, but for now I'll just leave it at that. Don't get me wrong, salmon should be a priority, but so should many other things.
I also agree with one of the above statements...The Commission is a joke. Nothing but a politically accommodating body who puts what appears to be, an acceptable stamp of approval on something of policy or regulation. Just like lesser entities of the agency's Game Management Council and other policy groups. In reality it is just another storefront to manipulate the public.
The comment from the President of the Puget Sound Anglers, to me, is coming more from a perspective of his position actually having contact with the upper management at WDFW, rubbing shoulder so to speak, than actually knowing just how bad the current administration is. :twocents:
I have always said during my career that there are two types of public employees, one who spends his or her time working for the public interest, and one who spends time working for their self interest. Unfortunately the prior has little time to engage in the political backstabbing arena that propels one up the chain of command. The latter does. Those latter ones in general are the ones running the agency and programs within, and setting policy. It's really just that simple.
ucwarden now has the time to do what he feels is necessary. Before he was too busy doing his job for all of you, while fending off all the political crap from within. Lots of good folks, or at least there used to be in the agency, as I've been retired 11 1/2 years now. Would have worked longer, but just had enough. Unfortunately if you try to do what's right for the license buying public, you quickly butt heads with others who don't hold the same values. For what it worth.
Post by: bearkautz on March 21, 2014, 07:59:45 PM
has anyone else gotten any spamming emails from this change website? im getting emails to sign other things that i dont know anything about? :dunno:
I have not got any spamming yet . what is the count this evening ?
Post by: northwesthunter84 on March 21, 2014, 08:09:13 PM
Post by: ucwarden on March 21, 2014, 09:25:13 PM
I saw 166 remaining when I signed.
I have been busy as can be with my polygraph business and the booth at the Bighorn Show, but wanted to thank all of you for your great support, comments and signatures. We kinda stalled at 840 signatures, and I would sure like to see 1,000 by Sunday night, so if you have a few minutes please spread the word to everyone on your email list.
Thanks again to all of you. The support has been great, and it's cool to meet a bunch of you in person at the Bighorn Show.
Post by: ucwarden on March 22, 2014, 06:25:44 AM
Post by: ucwarden on March 22, 2014, 08:03:44 AM
http://www.change.org/petitions/washington-state-fish-and-wildlife-commission-remove-wdfw-director-phil-anderson-chief-steve-crown-and-deputy-chief-mike-cenci (http://www.change.org/petitions/washington-state-fish-and-wildlife-commission-remove-wdfw-director-phil-anderson-chief-steve-crown-and-deputy-chief-mike-cenci)
Post by: jackmaster on March 22, 2014, 08:05:02 AM
Post by: ucwarden on March 22, 2014, 08:08:50 AM
UC I done know if you seen it but big j,s wont let me put the petition there, I still got about 10 signatures from guys I work with and my wife and son, I wish it was more I will get it in the mail next week, gotta make a couple more stops with it first
I did read that, and appreciate your support. I also understand where they are coming from, as this is a pretty heated debate, and lot's of businesses try to stay neutral to make sure they don't offend any customers.
Thanks for trying!
Post by: elk101 on March 22, 2014, 05:56:09 PM
Post by: ucwarden on March 22, 2014, 08:58:44 PM
Can you post the official firing report so we can have both sides of the story
What official firing report? Are you referring to Officer Dave Jones termination? If so, no I can't for several reasons; I don't have a copy, and I am pretty sure it can not be released without consent of all parties.
Post by: returnofsid on March 23, 2014, 06:30:39 AM
I had previously signed the online petition, so I didn't sign the paper petition you had. I figure, if this petition DOES go anywhere, the signatures will be looked over with a fine toothed comb. A double signature might just give the opposition something to complain about...lol
Post by: ucwarden on March 23, 2014, 07:39:38 AM
UCWarden, it was great to meet you yesterday! I'm the guy who visited you twice, needing to wait for my girlfriend before I purchased your book...lol. We discussed Bob Coleman. Again, it was great to meet you and I look forward to reading your book!
I had previously signed the online petition, so I didn't sign the paper petition you had. I figure, if this petition DOES go anywhere, the signatures will be looked over with a fine toothed comb. A double signature might just give the opposition something to complain about...lol
Thanks, but to clarify I do not want anyone to sign the petition more than once, and have never asked anyone to do so.
Post by: returnofsid on March 23, 2014, 07:44:37 AM
UCWarden, it was great to meet you yesterday! I'm the guy who visited you twice, needing to wait for my girlfriend before I purchased your book...lol. We discussed Bob Coleman. Again, it was great to meet you and I look forward to reading your book!
I had previously signed the online petition, so I didn't sign the paper petition you had. I figure, if this petition DOES go anywhere, the signatures will be looked over with a fine toothed comb. A double signature might just give the opposition something to complain about...lol
Thanks, but to clarify I do not want anyone to sign the petition more than once, and have never asked anyone to do so.
Oh absolutely understood! I wasn't asked to sign it twice. Didn't mean for my post to come across that way at all.
Post by: elk101 on March 23, 2014, 08:13:33 AM
Yes the full report I would like both sides of story before I sign as nobody has a replacement in mine and wildlife is very important but the fish is a lot of states and Feds to deal with and commercial guys that will push to get their guys in as it is not a spot where sportsmen get to pick or appointCan you post the official firing report so we can have both sides of the story
What official firing report? Are you referring to Officer Dave Jones termination? If so, no I can't for several reasons; I don't have a copy, and I am pretty sure it can not be released without consent of all parties.
Post by: buckfvr on March 23, 2014, 08:21:19 AM
WDFWs history of everything being agenda driven should be enough.......is for me.
Post by: jackmaster on March 23, 2014, 12:04:06 PM
always gotta be a guy like this, you just cant take a good mans word for it, I smell a troll, gotta stir the pot do ya :bash:Yes the full report I would like both sides of story before I sign as nobody has a replacement in mine and wildlife is very important but the fish is a lot of states and Feds to deal with and commercial guys that will push to get their guys in as it is not a spot where sportsmen get to pick or appointCan you post the official firing report so we can have both sides of the story
What official firing report? Are you referring to Officer Dave Jones termination? If so, no I can't for several reasons; I don't have a copy, and I am pretty sure it can not be released without consent of all parties.
Post by: jackelope on March 23, 2014, 12:07:16 PM
Wacenturian,
Thank you for your input. I really appreciate it. Sounds like your reinforcing what ucwarden and some others have had to say. Gotta be sad for you guys to see the direction WDFW has gone!
I agree. Thanks for the input. These messages I got were just others' opinions I felt like I should share. No intent either way was meant. Thanks again.
Post by: KFhunter on March 23, 2014, 12:22:15 PM
Thanks for signing Todd Vandivert’s petition. By adding your name, you became a part of this campaign for change.
861 now, should top 1000 pretty soon
Post by: JLS on March 23, 2014, 12:25:33 PM
always gotta be a guy like this, you just cant take a good mans word for it, I smell a troll, gotta stir the pot do ya :bash:Yes the full report I would like both sides of story before I sign as nobody has a replacement in mine and wildlife is very important but the fish is a lot of states and Feds to deal with and commercial guys that will push to get their guys in as it is not a spot where sportsmen get to pick or appointCan you post the official firing report so we can have both sides of the story
What official firing report? Are you referring to Officer Dave Jones termination? If so, no I can't for several reasons; I don't have a copy, and I am pretty sure it can not be released without consent of all parties.
Since when did wanting all of the information, i.e. both sides of a story, constitute being a troll?
Good grief, so much for making independent and thoughtful decisions and conclusions :rolleyes:
Post by: JJD on March 23, 2014, 01:22:22 PM
I thank GOD that guys like JLS ask the tough questions, we all need to have the guts to do the same.
Don't drink the cool-aid, no matter who is serving it.
Post by: ucwarden on March 23, 2014, 04:43:17 PM
always gotta be a guy like this, you just cant take a good mans word for it, I smell a troll, gotta stir the pot do ya :bash:Yes the full report I would like both sides of story before I sign as nobody has a replacement in mine and wildlife is very important but the fish is a lot of states and Feds to deal with and commercial guys that will push to get their guys in as it is not a spot where sportsmen get to pick or appointCan you post the official firing report so we can have both sides of the story
What official firing report? Are you referring to Officer Dave Jones termination? If so, no I can't for several reasons; I don't have a copy, and I am pretty sure it can not be released without consent of all parties.
Since when did wanting all of the information, i.e. both sides of a story, constitute being a troll?
Good grief, so much for making independent and thoughtful decisions and conclusions :rolleyes:
It doesn't. You have to understand that this website is open to anyone, and the very people I am working to remove are likely reading these messages, so it gets everyone a little suspicious. I do not have access to information you are requesting, or I would provide it.
Post by: JLS on March 23, 2014, 06:39:27 PM
always gotta be a guy like this, you just cant take a good mans word for it, I smell a troll, gotta stir the pot do ya :bash:Yes the full report I would like both sides of story before I sign as nobody has a replacement in mine and wildlife is very important but the fish is a lot of states and Feds to deal with and commercial guys that will push to get their guys in as it is not a spot where sportsmen get to pick or appointCan you post the official firing report so we can have both sides of the story
What official firing report? Are you referring to Officer Dave Jones termination? If so, no I can't for several reasons; I don't have a copy, and I am pretty sure it can not be released without consent of all parties.
Since when did wanting all of the information, i.e. both sides of a story, constitute being a troll?
Good grief, so much for making independent and thoughtful decisions and conclusions :rolleyes:
It doesn't. You have to understand that this website is open to anyone, and the very people I am working to remove are likely reading these messages, so it gets everyone a little suspicious. I do not have access to information you are requesting, or I would provide it.
My response wasn't directed at you. I don't expect that you would have access to the personnel decision and it wasn't me that asked for it.
My response was directed at the comment to take someone at face value and that a person is a troll if they don't. I certainly don't make a habit out of taking people at their word on the internet without doing my own research, and I wouldn't advise others to either.
Post by: BK on March 24, 2014, 07:20:54 AM
Mr. Vandivert's book, even when the personal animosity between him and Mr. Cenci is discounted, raises points that need to be addressed. It also points out serious flaws in the institutional culture of WDFW that have acted to the detriment of that organization's mission and the Public which it serves. I am sending copies of "Operation Cody" to both my State Representative, and my State Senator. I feel that if each and every one of the Drones in Olympia were to receive multiple copies perhaps they would be moved to get off their collective butts and address some very serious issues.
I would urge those reading this to follow my lead and send copies to their representatives in Olympia.
Sincerely,
BK
Post by: Special T on March 24, 2014, 07:31:39 AM
Post by: ucwarden on March 24, 2014, 07:43:40 AM
I feel that internet petitions are worth somewhat less than the paper they are printed on.
Mr. Vandivert's book, even when the personal animosity between him and Mr. Cenci is discounted, raises points that need to be addressed. It also points out serious flaws in the institutional culture of WDFW that have acted to the detriment of that organization's mission and the Public which it serves. I am sending copies of "Operation Cody" to both my State Representative, and my State Senator. I feel that if each and every one of the Drones in Olympia were to receive multiple copies perhaps they would be moved to get off their collective butts and address some very serious issues.
I would urge those reading this to follow my lead and send copies to their representatives in Olympia.
Sincerely,
BK
I think your nailed it. Cenci and I certainly do have "personal animosity", but as I have told a couple of reporters if you only read the first couple of chapters and the last couple of chapters of my book you can get a sense of what is wrong.
In the first couple of chapters I accurately quote the Deputy Chief of Fish and Wildlife as saying "nobody gives a s#@$ about deer and elk", and in the last chapters I explain how the deputy chief used the media to warn the state that we were coming with search warrants on the day we were serving the warrants. Either of those two things should be enough to raise deep concerns.
Post by: KFhunter on March 24, 2014, 10:22:28 AM
Post by: ELKBURGER on March 24, 2014, 11:26:42 AM
1,056 supportersWow! Keep them coming.
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on March 24, 2014, 01:23:51 PM
Post by: washelkhunter on March 24, 2014, 01:50:28 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on March 24, 2014, 02:03:17 PM
Post by: JJD on March 24, 2014, 02:18:19 PM
Seems UC, NO speak with fork'd tongue.
I signed in on the petition just now, failed to note what number I was.
Post by: ucwarden on March 24, 2014, 02:55:37 PM
So, what happens when it gets to 1500? Does this require someone to do something or is it a symbolic goal?
This petition has no real teeth, it is simply another tool to show the WDFW commission, the legislators and the governor's office that there really is a problem within WDFW. They can choose to ignore the problem, or effect some changes....it's up to them.
But if no changes occur, then they all can explain to the media why not.
Post by: ucwarden on March 24, 2014, 03:00:53 PM
Checked with some folks I know on the "inside" over in Olympia.
Seems UC, NO speak with fork'd tongue.
I signed in on the just now, failed to note what number I was.
I encourage anyone and everyone to ask WDFW employees about me or about the "issues" I address. I think you will find that other than a few "admin lovers" (mostly in the marine division), everyone will agree with my message (if they are willing to speak about it). You will also hear that I am an bit difficult, course, and even hostile at times, but 100% truthful.
Post by: Special T on March 24, 2014, 03:18:06 PM
Post by: jackmaster on March 25, 2014, 06:45:40 AM
Straight shooters are often thought of as brash... mostly because they don't mince words...:yeah: ya got that right!!!!!
Post by: Bob33 on March 25, 2014, 07:06:15 AM
If this is about WDFW, what difference does it make what people think about you? I trust this isn't a personal vendetta.Checked with some folks I know on the "inside" over in Olympia.
Seems UC, NO speak with fork'd tongue.
I signed in on the just now, failed to note what number I was.
I encourage anyone and everyone to ask WDFW employees about me or about the "issues" I address. I think you will find that other than a few "admin lovers" (mostly in the marine division), everyone will agree with my message (if they are willing to speak about it). You will also hear that I am an bit difficult, course, and even hostile at times, but 100% truthful.
Post by: ucwarden on March 25, 2014, 07:26:06 AM
If this is about WDFW, what difference does it make what people think about you? I trust this isn't a personal vendetta.Checked with some folks I know on the "inside" over in Olympia.
Seems UC, NO speak with fork'd tongue.
I signed in on the just now, failed to note what number I was.
I encourage anyone and everyone to ask WDFW employees about me or about the "issues" I address. I think you will find that other than a few "admin lovers" (mostly in the marine division), everyone will agree with my message (if they are willing to speak about it). You will also hear that I am an bit difficult, course, and even hostile at times, but 100% truthful.
The reason my personal integrity matters, is because I am presenting the facts as I see and know them, and asking people to trust that I am stating the facts accurately.
Post by: ucwarden on March 25, 2014, 07:29:17 AM
Post by: jackmaster on March 25, 2014, 07:58:01 AM
Post by: ucwarden on March 25, 2014, 08:26:22 AM
bob33, have you read his book yet? serious question! i am generally a very skeptical person, but after reading his book my guard came way down, you can tell there is personal issues there but it isnt the catalyst for what UC is doing, here is a guy that it genuine and feels strongly about are wildlife, we have been smoked out by so many crooked damn politicians and leaders that it is hard for pepole to take them at their word anymore, so it is important to some about how they are viewed by others. i know i am just one person, but i beleive in UC and what he is about, it isnt often you get guys like this to stand up and take the lead, and it speaks volumes to the fact that other agents have signed on that have alot to lose, we sportsman dont have anything to lose, cause it has been shown that it doesnt matter what we the sportsman think, because we are losing at every turn, maybe what TODD is doing will chalk one up for the sportsman :tup:
Thanks. It also speaks volumes that many many WDFW officers have said the fully endorse the petition, but won't sign it because of fear of retaliation.
Post by: Curly on March 25, 2014, 08:50:34 AM
Can someone explain why someone would not want to sign the petition? :dunno: (other than wdfw employees not risking retaliation)
Is it the fear of the unknown about who might replace these guys? Personally, I think it would do some good to shake up wdfw.
Is the root of the problem all the years of having crappy governors in the state? I'd also like to understand the root cause of what we have...........maybe it all started with the merger of game and fish? :dunno:
Post by: jackmaster on March 25, 2014, 10:10:04 AM
Post by: Maverick on March 25, 2014, 10:16:42 AM
Post by: ucwarden on March 25, 2014, 10:23:01 AM
Yeah I think it'd help a lot if fish and game was separate from state. Wish there was a way we could make that happen...
I fully agree. Combining Fisheries and Wildlife was a terrible mistake, and I wish they were still separate agencies.
Post by: idahohuntr on March 25, 2014, 10:28:23 AM
I'm a little surprised the petition hasn't gotten more signatures yet. Guys on this forum are always complaining about wdfw; here's a good chance to try to get them to change.I have not signed and at this point probably will not simply because I have not seen evidence of singnificant wrong-doing or law breaking by Crown or Anderson...I could care less about Cenci. If there is evidence of specific illegal or unethical acts by these guys and it is presented to the public I would certainly re-consider. Furthermore, I see no plan for improvement. Raising enough heck to get the current admin out with no plan for who the replacement would be seems disastrous if it were to succeed. This is why I mentioned a while back that the petition should be geared towards issues...not people...unless there is specific, detailed evidence describing illegal and unethical behavior or activities by the people named in the petition.
Can someone explain why someone would not want to sign the petition? :dunno: (other than wdfw employees not risking retaliation)
Is it the fear of the unknown about who might replace these guys? Personally, I think it would do some good to shake up wdfw.
Is the root of the problem all the years of having crappy governors in the state? I'd also like to understand the root cause of what we have...........maybe it all started with the merger of game and fish? :dunno:
I don't disagree that there is not substantial room for improvement, but a lot of that improvement needs to come from legislative action...not simply replacing current department heads. Chief Crown is relatively new to his job and based on what I heard him say at a GMAC meeting I think he might have the right attitude...I am at least willing to give him a chance to implement the things he talked about...and if he doesn't then I will be happy to sign a petition. With the current Director, I guess he's on there because of guilt by association...given political climate, legislative requirements etc. I think it would be a mistake to try and get rid of him.
Post by: bigtex on March 25, 2014, 10:37:35 AM
atleast thatay you wont have a guy like cenci, who only really cares about shellfish, running the game side of it
Cenci still does have his fingers in wildlife enforcement. There's basically 4 ways a WDFW Enforcement detachment is ran. 1- Land officers who report to the Regional Captain and are responsible for fish and wildlife enforcement on land. 2- Land officers who report to the Regional Captain and are responsible for land AND marine enforcement. 3- Marine officers who simply do marine enforcement and report to Deputy Chief Cenci. 4- Marine officers who do both marine enforcement AND all enforcement on land and report to Deputy Chief Cenci.
So if your county is under the guidance of a detachment that falls under number 4 then Cenci still is overseeing wildlife enforcement in that county. Counties that have marine officers also responsible for wildlife enforcement include San Juan, Jefferson, Clallam, Pacific, Wahkiakum, Skamania, and Klickitat, I am sure there are others I have missed. Skamania and Klickitat are counties that were recently taken out of the "land" role and placed into the marine role.
Post by: bigtex on March 25, 2014, 10:41:02 AM
I'd also like to understand the root cause of what we have...........maybe it all started with the merger of game and fish? :dunno:UC, when in your opinion did things start to go down hill significantly? Was it when Bjork took over in the late 90s? When Deputy Chief Jarmon retired in 2007 and Cenci took over as DC? Or has it just been a slow degrade over time that has picked up pace lately?
Post by: Curly on March 25, 2014, 11:05:53 AM
I'm a little surprised the petition hasn't gotten more signatures yet. Guys on this forum are always complaining about wdfw; here's a good chance to try to get them to change.I have not signed and at this point probably will not simply because I have not seen evidence of singnificant wrong-doing or law breaking by Crown or Anderson...I could care less about Cenci. If there is evidence of specific illegal or unethical acts by these guys and it is presented to the public I would certainly re-consider. Furthermore, I see no plan for improvement. Raising enough heck to get the current admin out with no plan for who the replacement would be seems disastrous if it were to succeed. This is why I mentioned a while back that the petition should be geared towards issues...not people...unless there is specific, detailed evidence describing illegal and unethical behavior or activities by the people named in the petition.
Can someone explain why someone would not want to sign the petition? :dunno: (other than wdfw employees not risking retaliation)
Is it the fear of the unknown about who might replace these guys? Personally, I think it would do some good to shake up wdfw.
Is the root of the problem all the years of having crappy governors in the state? I'd also like to understand the root cause of what we have...........maybe it all started with the merger of game and fish? :dunno:
I don't disagree that there is not substantial room for improvement, but a lot of that improvement needs to come from legislative action...not simply replacing current department heads. Chief Crown is relatively new to his job and based on what I heard him say at a GMAC meeting I think he might have the right attitude...I am at least willing to give him a chance to implement the things he talked about...and if he doesn't then I will be happy to sign a petition. With the current Director, I guess he's on there because of guilt by association...given political climate, legislative requirements etc. I think it would be a mistake to try and get rid of him.
Thanks for the input and I do respect your opinion.
I see this petition as simply a way for WDFW to take notice and admit there are problems and for the commission to take notice. They should have discussions as to how to fix the issues here. Maybe this will be the first step toward the legislative action that will help some of the issues...... :dunno:
Post by: Curly on March 25, 2014, 11:27:32 AM
And the way WDFW seems to have a love affair toward predators has to go to the top of WDFW. I think they could do a lot of things differently. The wolf plan was a joke; the wdfw bios never should have proposed that plan, and it was very disappointing that the commission approved it.
Then the category system of special permits. Anderson never should have let that system go out the way it did. They needed to wait another year to get public input and work out some issues.
Anyway, I wouldn't feel sorry for Anderson if he had to go find a job elsewhere; seems like he isn't up for the job he has now. :twocents:
And Anderson must know the issues with commercial hunting and tribal abuses...........lack of action on wdfw's part is not acceptable.
Post by: idahohuntr on March 25, 2014, 12:33:40 PM
Post by: Special T on March 25, 2014, 01:52:03 PM
There is a great saying that applies here... Attitude is a reflection of leadership... If the general attiude by sportmen & WDFW employees is not good, Who's responcibility is it??? I think its the Names in Question. :twocents:
Post by: jackmaster on March 25, 2014, 02:14:00 PM
Issues and leadership go hand in hand... We arn't talking about bustin chops of a specific warden, we are talking about the general leaderhip of the WDFW... And the individuals who are leading need to be set straight or sent packing...:yeah: great leaders are built by great leaders that lead by example, FIRST SERGEANT TONY CORTEZ, taught me that, he was probably the greatest man i have ever known..... WDFW as a whole is seriously degraded at this point and the only way to fix it is a change in leadership, it would be a great job for retired first sergeants and command sergeant majors from RANGER BATS, it would be all about seriously nailing the bad guys :tup: sorry any of you officers out there, but you guys were alittle soft when it came to ...... you know :chuckle: :tup:
There is a great saying that applies here... Attitude is a reflection of leadership... If the general attiude by sportmen & WDFW employees is not good, Who's responcibility is it??? I think its the Names in Question. :twocents:
Post by: Bob33 on March 25, 2014, 02:53:03 PM
bob33, have you read his book yet? serious question! i am generally a very skeptical person, but after reading his book my guard came way down, you can tell there is personal issues there but it isnt the catalyst for what UC is doing, here is a guy that it genuine and feels strongly about are wildlife, we have been smoked out by so many crooked damn politicians and leaders that it is hard for pepole to take them at their word anymore, so it is important to some about how they are viewed by others. i know i am just one person, but i beleive in UC and what he is about, it isnt often you get guys like this to stand up and take the lead, and it speaks volumes to the fact that other agents have signed on that have alot to lose, we sportsman dont have anything to lose, cause it has been shown that it doesnt matter what we the sportsman think, because we are losing at every turn, maybe what TODD is doing will chalk one up for the sportsman :tup:My question was not personal, and well intended. I suspect there will be an effort by WDFW to portray this as an effort spearheaded by "a single former disgruntled employee". Anything that lends credence to that will diminish the focus on WDFW.
Carry on.
Post by: buckfvr on March 25, 2014, 03:03:49 PM
Post by: ucwarden on March 25, 2014, 03:11:37 PM
I'm a little surprised the petition hasn't gotten more signatures yet. Guys on this forum are always complaining about wdfw; here's a good chance to try to get them to change.I have not signed and at this point probably will not simply because I have not seen evidence of singnificant wrong-doing or law breaking by Crown or Anderson...I could care less about Cenci. If there is evidence of specific illegal or unethical acts by these guys and it is presented to the public I would certainly re-consider. Furthermore, I see no plan for improvement. Raising enough heck to get the current admin out with no plan for who the replacement would be seems disastrous if it were to succeed. This is why I mentioned a while back that the petition should be geared towards issues...not people...unless there is specific, detailed evidence describing illegal and unethical behavior or activities by the people named in the petition.
Can someone explain why someone would not want to sign the petition? :dunno: (other than wdfw employees not risking retaliation)
Is it the fear of the unknown about who might replace these guys? Personally, I think it would do some good to shake up wdfw.
Is the root of the problem all the years of having crappy governors in the state? I'd also like to understand the root cause of what we have...........maybe it all started with the merger of game and fish? :dunno:
I don't disagree that there is not substantial room for improvement, but a lot of that improvement needs to come from legislative action...not simply replacing current department heads. Chief Crown is relatively new to his job and based on what I heard him say at a GMAC meeting I think he might have the right attitude...I am at least willing to give him a chance to implement the things he talked about...and if he doesn't then I will be happy to sign a petition. With the current Director, I guess he's on there because of guilt by association...given political climate, legislative requirements etc. I think it would be a mistake to try and get rid of him.
First; I respect your opinion and will not support anyone who gives you grief for not signing the petition.
I want to assure you, and others, there soon will be evidence of wrong-doing, but I simply can't release it yet.
As far as Crown goes, he is a nice enough guy, just not right for the position he has been gifted. Remember that he previously only supervised one single uniformed officer, and now he supervises all of them. If you speak with any WDFW officers who were FTO (Field Training Officers) they will likely tell you that when he ran the training program (his position before being chief) it was a mess. He failed to communicate, didn't follow through, and generally dropped the ball a lot. Also; he was appointed the chief's position after a "nationwide search" which was a joke. The first thing he did was put Cenci back as a deputy chief, then added yet another deputy chief position (first time there have been two DC's). He just gave Cenci the position, but made the people seeking the "other" eputy chief position go through interviews etc. That alone is no way to do business.
Post by: ucwarden on March 25, 2014, 03:13:33 PM
atleast thatay you wont have a guy like cenci, who only really cares about shellfish, running the game side of it
Cenci still does have his fingers in wildlife enforcement. There's basically 4 ways a WDFW Enforcement detachment is ran. 1- Land officers who report to the Regional Captain and are responsible for fish and wildlife enforcement on land. 2- Land officers who report to the Regional Captain and are responsible for land AND marine enforcement. 3- Marine officers who simply do marine enforcement and report to Deputy Chief Cenci. 4- Marine officers who do both marine enforcement AND all enforcement on land and report to Deputy Chief Cenci.
So if your county is under the guidance of a detachment that falls under number 4 then Cenci still is overseeing wildlife enforcement in that county. Counties that have marine officers also responsible for wildlife enforcement include San Juan, Jefferson, Clallam, Pacific, Wahkiakum, Skamania, and Klickitat, I am sure there are others I have missed. Skamania and Klickitat are counties that were recently taken out of the "land" role and placed into the marine role.
Bigtex; I would sure like to know who you are (PM me), as you know one hell of a lot about WDFW.
You are again, right on the money
Post by: ucwarden on March 25, 2014, 03:16:03 PM
I'd also like to understand the root cause of what we have...........maybe it all started with the merger of game and fish? :dunno:UC, when in your opinion did things start to go down hill significantly? Was it when Bjork took over in the late 90s? When Deputy Chief Jarmon retired in 2007 and Cenci took over as DC? Or has it just been a slow degrade over time that has picked up pace lately?
I would say the real turning point was when Jarmon retired and was replaced by Cenci. At first, all of us were thrilled with Bjork, and even though he has never been a game warden, because he had good deputy chief's he did a good job for the officers. Then came Cenci. It started going downhill almost immediately.
Post by: ucwarden on March 25, 2014, 03:19:46 PM
bob33, have you read his book yet? serious question! i am generally a very skeptical person, but after reading his book my guard came way down, you can tell there is personal issues there but it isnt the catalyst for what UC is doing, here is a guy that it genuine and feels strongly about are wildlife, we have been smoked out by so many crooked damn politicians and leaders that it is hard for pepole to take them at their word anymore, so it is important to some about how they are viewed by others. i know i am just one person, but i beleive in UC and what he is about, it isnt often you get guys like this to stand up and take the lead, and it speaks volumes to the fact that other agents have signed on that have alot to lose, we sportsman dont have anything to lose, cause it has been shown that it doesnt matter what we the sportsman think, because we are losing at every turn, maybe what TODD is doing will chalk one up for the sportsman :tup:My question was not personal, and well intended. I suspect there will be an effort by WDFW to portray this as an effort spearheaded by "a single former disgruntled employee". Anything that lends credence to that will diminish the focus on WDFW.
Carry on.
You are absolutely correct. I am sure the damage control is already underway, and you are correct they will blame it all on a "bitter disgruntled former employee". The problem they will have with this, it that I am joined by an army of former and present employees.
Post by: Special T on March 25, 2014, 03:25:16 PM
Post by: ucwarden on March 25, 2014, 03:27:12 PM
UC you may want to PM Big Tex your # If i were him I would NOT type my name or number on this forum anywhere. :twocents:
Will do
Post by: Curly on March 25, 2014, 03:54:49 PM
Some very good points Curly...my biggest thing is we need to focus on the issues, not specific people...unless like I said there is some specific illegal/unethical act that needs to be addressed.
First off, I think this is a good discussion. I'm glad you stepped up and gave an opinion as to why you weren't signing the petition. I think it helps some of us understand that side. I always like to hear reasons for the way people think and the differing viewpoints.
Secondly, I commend you for sitting on the GMAC, going to those meetings and trying to affect change through those channels. I don't know how you do it, sitting thru those meetings, giving your input and then seeing what gets implemented. I'd be very frustrated, myself. You are a good person. :tup:
You have to admit there are things wrong at wdfw, not even just the enforcement side. The enforcement side of things we know there is something wrong when ex wardens and current wardens are coming forward complaining about issues. I never even thought much about the enforcement side of wdfw having any problems until UCW joined this site and his book became known.
I've heard that poachers kill as many deer/elk as licensed hunters in this state. Don't know if that stat is real or not, but even if it is 20% of what is theorized, that is a huge number. And if the head guy in enforcement's attitude is that he doesn't care about that, then he needs to go. I want the poachers caught and dealt with harshly..........sadly that doesn't seem to be happening. :twocents:
Post by: idahohuntr on March 25, 2014, 04:14:38 PM
I understand you have a strategy and also respect your efforts even if I think there is a "better" approach...you have more information so it may just be a matter of time before I say I was wrong and should have signed weeks ago :chuckle:I'm a little surprised the petition hasn't gotten more signatures yet. Guys on this forum are always complaining about wdfw; here's a good chance to try to get them to change.I have not signed and at this point probably will not simply because I have not seen evidence of singnificant wrong-doing or law breaking by Crown or Anderson...I could care less about Cenci. If there is evidence of specific illegal or unethical acts by these guys and it is presented to the public I would certainly re-consider. Furthermore, I see no plan for improvement. Raising enough heck to get the current admin out with no plan for who the replacement would be seems disastrous if it were to succeed. This is why I mentioned a while back that the petition should be geared towards issues...not people...unless there is specific, detailed evidence describing illegal and unethical behavior or activities by the people named in the petition.
Can someone explain why someone would not want to sign the petition? :dunno: (other than wdfw employees not risking retaliation)
Is it the fear of the unknown about who might replace these guys? Personally, I think it would do some good to shake up wdfw.
Is the root of the problem all the years of having crappy governors in the state? I'd also like to understand the root cause of what we have...........maybe it all started with the merger of game and fish? :dunno:
I don't disagree that there is not substantial room for improvement, but a lot of that improvement needs to come from legislative action...not simply replacing current department heads. Chief Crown is relatively new to his job and based on what I heard him say at a GMAC meeting I think he might have the right attitude...I am at least willing to give him a chance to implement the things he talked about...and if he doesn't then I will be happy to sign a petition. With the current Director, I guess he's on there because of guilt by association...given political climate, legislative requirements etc. I think it would be a mistake to try and get rid of him.
First; I respect your opinion and will not support anyone who gives you grief for not signing the petition.
I want to assure you, and others, there soon will be evidence of wrong-doing, but I simply can't release it yet.
As far as Crown goes, he is a nice enough guy, just not right for the position he has been gifted. Remember that he previously only supervised one single uniformed officer, and now he supervises all of them. If you speak with any WDFW officers who were FTO (Field Training Officers) they will likely tell you that when he ran the training program (his position before being chief) it was a mess. He failed to communicate, didn't follow through, and generally dropped the ball a lot. Also; he was appointed the chief's position after a "nationwide search" which was a joke. The first thing he did was put Cenci back as a deputy chief, then added yet another deputy chief position (first time there have been two DC's). He just gave Cenci the position, but made the people seeking the "other" eputy chief position go through interviews etc. That alone is no way to do business.
My impression of Crown was luke-warm...he didn't strike me as some great leader or anything, but he did say two key things that I appreciated:
1. Wants to hire officers who are connected to the resource...guys that hunt and fish...not
2. Wants officer interactions to be positive for the 99% of folks who are not law breakers...no "its my job to figure out how to write you a ticket" attitudes in the ranks of WDFW
He also said things that were very evasive that left me feeling like he is definitely a bureaucrat. If he accomplishes the two things he talked about I'd be happy with him. I understand talk is cheap but I guess not knowing him I am more willing to give him a shot at righting the ship.
Who would you like to see replace him? Is there anybody in WDFW suited for the job that would have a legitimate shot at getting it or do we need somebody from outside?
Post by: elk101 on March 25, 2014, 05:01:14 PM
I think 20% of the licensed hunters would be in the poaching part of it alsoSome very good points Curly...my biggest thing is we need to focus on the issues, not specific people...unless like I said there is some specific illegal/unethical act that needs to be addressed.
First off, I think this is a good discussion. I'm glad you stepped up and gave an opinion as to why you weren't signing the petition. I think it helps some of us understand that side. I always like to hear reasons for the way people think and the differing viewpoints.
Secondly, I commend you for sitting on the GMAC, going to those meetings and trying to affect change through those channels. I don't know how you do it, sitting thru those meetings, giving your input and then seeing what gets implemented. I'd be very frustrated, myself. You are a good person. :tup:
You have to admit there are things wrong at wdfw, not even just the enforcement side. The enforcement side of things we know there is something wrong when ex wardens and current wardens are coming forward complaining about issues. I never even thought much about the enforcement side of wdfw having any problems until UCW joined this site and his book became known.
I've heard that poachers kill as many deer/elk as licensed hunters in this state. Don't know if that stat is real or not, but even if it is 20% of what is theorized, that is a huge number. And if the head guy in enforcement's attitude is that he doesn't care about that, then he needs to go. I want the poachers caught and dealt with harshly..........sadly that doesn't seem to be happening. :twocents:
Post by: ucwarden on March 25, 2014, 05:17:10 PM
I understand you have a strategy and also respect your efforts even if I think there is a "better" approach...you have more information so it may just be a matter of time before I say I was wrong and should have signed weeks ago :chuckle:I'm a little surprised the petition hasn't gotten more signatures yet. Guys on this forum are always complaining about wdfw; here's a good chance to try to get them to change.I have not signed and at this point probably will not simply because I have not seen evidence of singnificant wrong-doing or law breaking by Crown or Anderson...I could care less about Cenci. If there is evidence of specific illegal or unethical acts by these guys and it is presented to the public I would certainly re-consider. Furthermore, I see no plan for improvement. Raising enough heck to get the current admin out with no plan for who the replacement would be seems disastrous if it were to succeed. This is why I mentioned a while back that the petition should be geared towards issues...not people...unless there is specific, detailed evidence describing illegal and unethical behavior or activities by the people named in the petition.
Can someone explain why someone would not want to sign the petition? :dunno: (other than wdfw employees not risking retaliation)
Is it the fear of the unknown about who might replace these guys? Personally, I think it would do some good to shake up wdfw.
Is the root of the problem all the years of having crappy governors in the state? I'd also like to understand the root cause of what we have...........maybe it all started with the merger of game and fish? :dunno:
I don't disagree that there is not substantial room for improvement, but a lot of that improvement needs to come from legislative action...not simply replacing current department heads. Chief Crown is relatively new to his job and based on what I heard him say at a GMAC meeting I think he might have the right attitude...I am at least willing to give him a chance to implement the things he talked about...and if he doesn't then I will be happy to sign a petition. With the current Director, I guess he's on there because of guilt by association...given political climate, legislative requirements etc. I think it would be a mistake to try and get rid of him.
First; I respect your opinion and will not support anyone who gives you grief for not signing the petition.
I want to assure you, and others, there soon will be evidence of wrong-doing, but I simply can't release it yet.
As far as Crown goes, he is a nice enough guy, just not right for the position he has been gifted. Remember that he previously only supervised one single uniformed officer, and now he supervises all of them. If you speak with any WDFW officers who were FTO (Field Training Officers) they will likely tell you that when he ran the training program (his position before being chief) it was a mess. He failed to communicate, didn't follow through, and generally dropped the ball a lot. Also; he was appointed the chief's position after a "nationwide search" which was a joke. The first thing he did was put Cenci back as a deputy chief, then added yet another deputy chief position (first time there have been two DC's). He just gave Cenci the position, but made the people seeking the "other" eputy chief position go through interviews etc. That alone is no way to do business.
My impression of Crown was luke-warm...he didn't strike me as some great leader or anything, but he did say two key things that I appreciated:
1. Wants to hire officers who are connected to the resource...guys that hunt and fish...not
2. Wants officer interactions to be positive for the 99% of folks who are not law breakers...no "its my job to figure out how to write you a ticket" attitudes in the ranks of WDFW
He also said things that were very evasive that left me feeling like he is definitely a bureaucrat. If he accomplishes the two things he talked about I'd be happy with him. I understand talk is cheap but I guess not knowing him I am more willing to give him a shot at righting the ship.
Who would you like to see replace him? Is there anybody in WDFW suited for the job that would have a legitimate shot at getting it or do we need somebody from outside?
As for replacing him, I (and almost everyone) would be happy with Rich Phillips (who was just demoted by Crown), several other supervisors in WDFW, or even better- someone from a totally different F&W agency (out-of-state)
Post by: ucwarden on March 25, 2014, 05:19:09 PM
I understand you have a strategy and also respect your efforts even if I think there is a "better" approach...you have more information so it may just be a matter of time before I say I was wrong and should have signed weeks ago :chuckle:I'm a little surprised the petition hasn't gotten more signatures yet. Guys on this forum are always complaining about wdfw; here's a good chance to try to get them to change.I have not signed and at this point probably will not simply because I have not seen evidence of singnificant wrong-doing or law breaking by Crown or Anderson...I could care less about Cenci. If there is evidence of specific illegal or unethical acts by these guys and it is presented to the public I would certainly re-consider. Furthermore, I see no plan for improvement. Raising enough heck to get the current admin out with no plan for who the replacement would be seems disastrous if it were to succeed. This is why I mentioned a while back that the petition should be geared towards issues...not people...unless there is specific, detailed evidence describing illegal and unethical behavior or activities by the people named in the petition.
Can someone explain why someone would not want to sign the petition? :dunno: (other than wdfw employees not risking retaliation)
Is it the fear of the unknown about who might replace these guys? Personally, I think it would do some good to shake up wdfw.
Is the root of the problem all the years of having crappy governors in the state? I'd also like to understand the root cause of what we have...........maybe it all started with the merger of game and fish? :dunno:
I don't disagree that there is not substantial room for improvement, but a lot of that improvement needs to come from legislative action...not simply replacing current department heads. Chief Crown is relatively new to his job and based on what I heard him say at a GMAC meeting I think he might have the right attitude...I am at least willing to give him a chance to implement the things he talked about...and if he doesn't then I will be happy to sign a petition. With the current Director, I guess he's on there because of guilt by association...given political climate, legislative requirements etc. I think it would be a mistake to try and get rid of him.
First; I respect your opinion and will not support anyone who gives you grief for not signing the petition.
I want to assure you, and others, there soon will be evidence of wrong-doing, but I simply can't release it yet.
As far as Crown goes, he is a nice enough guy, just not right for the position he has been gifted. Remember that he previously only supervised one single uniformed officer, and now he supervises all of them. If you speak with any WDFW officers who were FTO (Field Training Officers) they will likely tell you that when he ran the training program (his position before being chief) it was a mess. He failed to communicate, didn't follow through, and generally dropped the ball a lot. Also; he was appointed the chief's position after a "nationwide search" which was a joke. The first thing he did was put Cenci back as a deputy chief, then added yet another deputy chief position (first time there have been two DC's). He just gave Cenci the position, but made the people seeking the "other" eputy chief position go through interviews etc. That alone is no way to do business.
My impression of Crown was luke-warm...he didn't strike me as some great leader or anything, but he did say two key things that I appreciated:
1. Wants to hire officers who are connected to the resource...guys that hunt and fish...not
2. Wants officer interactions to be positive for the 99% of folks who are not law breakers...no "its my job to figure out how to write you a ticket" attitudes in the ranks of WDFW
He also said things that were very evasive that left me feeling like he is definitely a bureaucrat. If he accomplishes the two things he talked about I'd be happy with him. I understand talk is cheap but I guess not knowing him I am more willing to give him a shot at righting the ship.
Who would you like to see replace him? Is there anybody in WDFW suited for the job that would have a legitimate shot at getting it or do we need somebody from outside?
Also; it's kinda funny that Crown said he wants to start hiring officers who hunt and fish (and you liked that response), since the position he held up until he was handed the chief's job was training and hiring Lt. He picked the officers we have hired over the last 8 or so years.
Post by: Forks on March 25, 2014, 05:27:04 PM
Post by: elk101 on March 25, 2014, 05:55:39 PM
Post by: Special T on March 25, 2014, 06:41:36 PM
Does Anyone Remeber Inside WDFW? He was the guy who worked in the draws portion of the department. July 08-Nov10 he posted info about how the system works Mostly boiler plate information On his own time at home... He got told to stop and he did... Then got canned and came back... Started looking for work and his last post was this one.
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,59500.msg782796.html#msg782796 (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,59500.msg782796.html#msg782796)
If you ask me this guy was pretty stand up. he only had 50 posts but started a thread to answer questions THAT HE UNDERSTOOD... If you want to know the kind of people and caliber of the leadership at the WDFW just read his 50 posts... He was the FIRST and LAST person with some "In the know" to talk openly about the WDFW... and he didn't talk about stuff he didn't know... Since then we have some anonymous people like BigTex and a few other Leo's that have piped up, to help inform us and answer questions BUT MUST REMAIN ANONYMOUS! Partially because of liability and i get than, but MOSTLY for fear of retribution.
Just one more example of how the WDFW Leadership suffers from poor image. I will never forget this Poor guy, and UCWarden will not have a bigger supporter than ME to clean house!
Post by: billythekidrock on March 25, 2014, 06:45:12 PM
I would like to take a walk down memory lane for a moment... Just a anecodotal example of how the WDFW acts.
Does Anyone Remeber Inside WDFW? He was the guy who worked in the draws portion of the department. July 08-Nov10 he posted info about how the system works Mostly boiler plate information On his own time at home... He got told to stop and he did... Then got canned and came back... Started looking for work and his last post was this one.
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,59500.msg782796.html#msg782796 (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,59500.msg782796.html#msg782796)
If you ask me this guy was pretty stand up. he only had 50 posts but started a thread to answer questions THAT HE UNDERSTOOD... If you want to know the kind of people and caliber of the leadership at the WDFW just read his 50 posts... He was the FIRST and LAST person with some "In the know" to talk openly about the WDFW... and he didn't talk about stuff he didn't know... Since then we have some anonymous people like BigTex and a few other Leo's that have piped up, to help inform us and answer questions BUT MUST REMAIN ANONYMOUS! Partially because of liability and i get than, but MOSTLY for fear of retribution.
Just one more example of how the WDFW Leadership suffers from poor image. I will never forget this Poor guy, and UCWarden will not have a bigger supporter than ME to clean house!
Wasn't he was just a CSR that got caught in a relationship with his boss?
Post by: bigtex on March 25, 2014, 06:55:21 PM
The testing process also changed while Crown was in the hiring Lt. position. Prior to Crown you applied directly to WDFW, you did your written exam which was fish and wildlife oriented with WDFW, you did your physical fitness test with WDFW, and then onto the oral boards (panel interviews). Quickly after Crown took the Hiring Lt. job WDFW started to contract with Public Safety Testing (PST) which does the initial testing for law enforcement, fire and dispatching jobs.Also; it's kinda funny that Crown said he wants to start hiring officers who hunt and fish (and you liked that response), since the position he held up until he was handed the chief's job was training and hiring Lt. He picked the officers we have hired over the last 8 or so years.I understand you have a strategy and also respect your efforts even if I think there is a "better" approach...you have more information so it may just be a matter of time before I say I was wrong and should have signed weeks ago :chuckle:I'm a little surprised the petition hasn't gotten more signatures yet. Guys on this forum are always complaining about wdfw; here's a good chance to try to get them to change.I have not signed and at this point probably will not simply because I have not seen evidence of singnificant wrong-doing or law breaking by Crown or Anderson...I could care less about Cenci. If there is evidence of specific illegal or unethical acts by these guys and it is presented to the public I would certainly re-consider. Furthermore, I see no plan for improvement. Raising enough heck to get the current admin out with no plan for who the replacement would be seems disastrous if it were to succeed. This is why I mentioned a while back that the petition should be geared towards issues...not people...unless there is specific, detailed evidence describing illegal and unethical behavior or activities by the people named in the petition.
Can someone explain why someone would not want to sign the petition? :dunno: (other than wdfw employees not risking retaliation)
Is it the fear of the unknown about who might replace these guys? Personally, I think it would do some good to shake up wdfw.
Is the root of the problem all the years of having crappy governors in the state? I'd also like to understand the root cause of what we have...........maybe it all started with the merger of game and fish? :dunno:
I don't disagree that there is not substantial room for improvement, but a lot of that improvement needs to come from legislative action...not simply replacing current department heads. Chief Crown is relatively new to his job and based on what I heard him say at a GMAC meeting I think he might have the right attitude...I am at least willing to give him a chance to implement the things he talked about...and if he doesn't then I will be happy to sign a petition. With the current Director, I guess he's on there because of guilt by association...given political climate, legislative requirements etc. I think it would be a mistake to try and get rid of him.
First; I respect your opinion and will not support anyone who gives you grief for not signing the petition.
I want to assure you, and others, there soon will be evidence of wrong-doing, but I simply can't release it yet.
As far as Crown goes, he is a nice enough guy, just not right for the position he has been gifted. Remember that he previously only supervised one single uniformed officer, and now he supervises all of them. If you speak with any WDFW officers who were FTO (Field Training Officers) they will likely tell you that when he ran the training program (his position before being chief) it was a mess. He failed to communicate, didn't follow through, and generally dropped the ball a lot. Also; he was appointed the chief's position after a "nationwide search" which was a joke. The first thing he did was put Cenci back as a deputy chief, then added yet another deputy chief position (first time there have been two DC's). He just gave Cenci the position, but made the people seeking the "other" eputy chief position go through interviews etc. That alone is no way to do business.
My impression of Crown was luke-warm...he didn't strike me as some great leader or anything, but he did say two key things that I appreciated:
1. Wants to hire officers who are connected to the resource...guys that hunt and fish...not
2. Wants officer interactions to be positive for the 99% of folks who are not law breakers...no "its my job to figure out how to write you a ticket" attitudes in the ranks of WDFW
He also said things that were very evasive that left me feeling like he is definitely a bureaucrat. If he accomplishes the two things he talked about I'd be happy with him. I understand talk is cheap but I guess not knowing him I am more willing to give him a shot at righting the ship.
Who would you like to see replace him? Is there anybody in WDFW suited for the job that would have a legitimate shot at getting it or do we need somebody from outside?
So now when you "apply" for WDFW you are actually applying with PST and telling them to send your scores to WDFW. The fitness test is the same for all agencies in WA so no real change other than it is now PST doing it instead of WDFW. But the actual written exam is your typical law enforcement exam where it's a lot of grammar, math, English language usage, and so on, not law or fish and wildlife oriented at all.
WDFW is getting more applicants now then they were in the final years before they switched over but I think those numbers are a little inflated. It's known for those applying for the PST test that you should basically apply to any agency (over 100 agencies in WA use PST), hope to get hired, then after attending the academy you can move to other agencies. So the number of applicants that want their scores sent to WDFW and that actually want to be a WDFW Officer is probably significantly different. In comparison, before if you didn't want to work for WDFW then obviously you didn't apply to WDFW. But now with these testing services the mindset is basically apply to all agencies, get hired, and move.
I think it was a move to get more applicants but in reality, any massive increase in applicants that WDFW has seen is probably more due to the fact that people are applying for every agency with PST, not actually having that many more people wanting to work for WDFW.
Post by: Special T on March 25, 2014, 07:00:34 PM
CSR? IF so i don't remember that, was it in his posts?I would like to take a walk down memory lane for a moment... Just a anecodotal example of how the WDFW acts.
Does Anyone Remeber Inside WDFW? He was the guy who worked in the draws portion of the department. July 08-Nov10 he posted info about how the system works Mostly boiler plate information On his own time at home... He got told to stop and he did... Then got canned and came back... Started looking for work and his last post was this one.
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,59500.msg782796.html#msg782796 (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,59500.msg782796.html#msg782796)
If you ask me this guy was pretty stand up. he only had 50 posts but started a thread to answer questions THAT HE UNDERSTOOD... If you want to know the kind of people and caliber of the leadership at the WDFW just read his 50 posts... He was the FIRST and LAST person with some "In the know" to talk openly about the WDFW... and he didn't talk about stuff he didn't know... Since then we have some anonymous people like BigTex and a few other Leo's that have piped up, to help inform us and answer questions BUT MUST REMAIN ANONYMOUS! Partially because of liability and i get than, but MOSTLY for fear of retribution.
Just one more example of how the WDFW Leadership suffers from poor image. I will never forget this Poor guy, and UCWarden will not have a bigger supporter than ME to clean house!
Wasn't he was just a CSR that got caught in a relationship with his boss?
Post by: billythekidrock on March 25, 2014, 07:05:15 PM
CSR? IF so i don't remember that, was it in his posts?I would like to take a walk down memory lane for a moment... Just a anecodotal example of how the WDFW acts.
Does Anyone Remeber Inside WDFW? He was the guy who worked in the draws portion of the department. July 08-Nov10 he posted info about how the system works Mostly boiler plate information On his own time at home... He got told to stop and he did... Then got canned and came back... Started looking for work and his last post was this one.
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,59500.msg782796.html#msg782796 (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,59500.msg782796.html#msg782796)
If you ask me this guy was pretty stand up. he only had 50 posts but started a thread to answer questions THAT HE UNDERSTOOD... If you want to know the kind of people and caliber of the leadership at the WDFW just read his 50 posts... He was the FIRST and LAST person with some "In the know" to talk openly about the WDFW... and he didn't talk about stuff he didn't know... Since then we have some anonymous people like BigTex and a few other Leo's that have piped up, to help inform us and answer questions BUT MUST REMAIN ANONYMOUS! Partially because of liability and i get than, but MOSTLY for fear of retribution.
Just one more example of how the WDFW Leadership suffers from poor image. I will never forget this Poor guy, and UCWarden will not have a bigger supporter than ME to clean house!
Wasn't he was just a CSR that got caught in a relationship with his boss?
Customer Service Representative. He was one of two guys that answered the phone in the Wildlife section.
Post by: Special T on March 25, 2014, 07:12:12 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on March 25, 2014, 07:38:04 PM
Yes, Ok... So if he was in "relations" with his Boss its even worse for the WDFW... They canned a subordinate instead of the boss/MGR than knew better... Poor guy needed some loving and gets the boot cause his boss gets some heat. :chuckle: I don't know if that is the case or not, i think its speculation, however it certainly doesn't help them any. :twocents:
lol
Post by: Special T on March 25, 2014, 07:47:38 PM
Post by: bobcat on March 25, 2014, 07:49:03 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Wacenturion on March 25, 2014, 07:50:10 PM
I understand you have a strategy and also respect your efforts even if I think there is a "better" approach...you have more information so it may just be a matter of time before I say I was wrong and should have signed weeks ago :chuckle:I'm a little surprised the petition hasn't gotten more signatures yet. Guys on this forum are always complaining about wdfw; here's a good chance to try to get them to change.I have not signed and at this point probably will not simply because I have not seen evidence of singnificant wrong-doing or law breaking by Crown or Anderson...I could care less about Cenci. If there is evidence of specific illegal or unethical acts by these guys and it is presented to the public I would certainly re-consider. Furthermore, I see no plan for improvement. Raising enough heck to get the current admin out with no plan for who the replacement would be seems disastrous if it were to succeed. This is why I mentioned a while back that the petition should be geared towards issues...not people...unless there is specific, detailed evidence describing illegal and unethical behavior or activities by the people named in the petition.
Can someone explain why someone would not want to sign the petition? :dunno: (other than wdfw employees not risking retaliation)
Is it the fear of the unknown about who might replace these guys? Personally, I think it would do some good to shake up wdfw.
Is the root of the problem all the years of having crappy governors in the state? I'd also like to understand the root cause of what we have...........maybe it all started with the merger of game and fish? :dunno:
I don't disagree that there is not substantial room for improvement, but a lot of that improvement needs to come from legislative action...not simply replacing current department heads. Chief Crown is relatively new to his job and based on what I heard him say at a GMAC meeting I think he might have the right attitude...I am at least willing to give him a chance to implement the things he talked about...and if he doesn't then I will be happy to sign a petition. With the current Director, I guess he's on there because of guilt by association...given political climate, legislative requirements etc. I think it would be a mistake to try and get rid of him.
First; I respect your opinion and will not support anyone who gives you grief for not signing the petition.
I want to assure you, and others, there soon will be evidence of wrong-doing, but I simply can't release it yet.
As far as Crown goes, he is a nice enough guy, just not right for the position he has been gifted. Remember that he previously only supervised one single uniformed officer, and now he supervises all of them. If you speak with any WDFW officers who were FTO (Field Training Officers) they will likely tell you that when he ran the training program (his position before being chief) it was a mess. He failed to communicate, didn't follow through, and generally dropped the ball a lot. Also; he was appointed the chief's position after a "nationwide search" which was a joke. The first thing he did was put Cenci back as a deputy chief, then added yet another deputy chief position (first time there have been two DC's). He just gave Cenci the position, but made the people seeking the "other" eputy chief position go through interviews etc. That alone is no way to do business.
My impression of Crown was luke-warm...he didn't strike me as some great leader or anything, but he did say two key things that I appreciated:
1. Wants to hire officers who are connected to the resource...guys that hunt and fish...not
2. Wants officer interactions to be positive for the 99% of folks who are not law breakers...no "its my job to figure out how to write you a ticket" attitudes in the ranks of WDFW
He also said things that were very evasive that left me feeling like he is definitely a bureaucrat. If he accomplishes the two things he talked about I'd be happy with him. I understand talk is cheap but I guess not knowing him I am more willing to give him a shot at righting the ship.
Who would you like to see replace him? Is there anybody in WDFW suited for the job that would have a legitimate shot at getting it or do we need somebody from outside?
As for replacing him, I (and almost everyone) would be happy with Rich Phillips (who was just demoted by Crown), several other supervisors in WDFW, or even better- someone from a totally different F&W agency (out-of-state)
Rich has always been on the right side for what it's worth. :twocents:
Post by: billythekidrock on March 25, 2014, 07:50:33 PM
Where did you get that info BKR? I didn't see it in any of his posts? Is it just an assumption/conjecture of yours?
Nope, he posted some of it and sent some by pm.
Post by: Special T on March 25, 2014, 07:59:23 PM
Missed that post. in my speed check... :chuckle: poor Mike
If you dangle a T bone steak in front of me i'm gona eat it... Funny because he should have sued the Crap out the WDFW but that is the guys double standard.... since he was a guy... But what does he care, he got some loving... :chuckle: Still dont help the department...
Post by: ucwarden on March 25, 2014, 08:20:20 PM
How many officers have been hired in the last 8 years?
A bunch, I am guessing around 20 or so
Post by: ucwarden on March 25, 2014, 08:22:17 PM
Are you saying no good officers were hired the last 8 years
That is absolutely not what I am saying. We have hired some really good one's. My response was just to the fact that Crown apparently implied he was going to do something different in hiring now that he is chief, when he was already responsible for hiring before he was chief.
Post by: bigtex on March 26, 2014, 04:03:12 PM
I just checked, it has been removed.
At first I thought maybe the forum doesn't allow petitions, "action alerts" and so on, but they do have an "action alert" thread to send to the Senate to confirm Miranda Wecker as Chair of the Fish and Wildlife Commission.
Rich Phillips who was demoted from Sergeant has probably been on the show about 10 times since the show has been around.
Director Anderson is on it every couple months.
I guess we can see who that show is loyal to...
Post by: idahohuntr on March 26, 2014, 04:29:48 PM
Post by: ucwarden on March 26, 2014, 07:07:13 PM
Has anybody from WDFW or the commission said a peep about this petition?
Not that I know of. I am sure there has been a lot of conversations behind the scenes, and a lot of thought on how to handle it. Probably a lot of veiled threats to employees.
Post by: ucwarden on March 26, 2014, 07:09:39 PM
The Outdoor Line radio show which airs on Saturdays at 7AM on KIRO had a similar thread with some discussion regarding this petition.
I just checked, it has been removed.
At first I thought maybe the forum doesn't allow petitions, "action alerts" and so on, but they do have an "action alert" thread to send to the Senate to confirm Miranda Wecker as Chair of the Fish and Wildlife Commission.
Rich Phillips who was demoted from Sergeant has probably been on the show about 10 times since the show has been around.
Director Anderson is on it every couple months.
I guess we can see who that show is loyal to...
Not a surprise. I think, as well connected as you seem to be, you will notice a lot on tension at WDFW, and soldiers lining up on both sides to the trenches. But the good stuff is still 3 or 4 weeks out.
Post by: dscubame on March 26, 2014, 07:50:28 PM
The Outdoor Line radio show which airs on Saturdays at 7AM on KIRO had a similar thread with some discussion regarding this petition.
I just checked, it has been removed.
At first I thought maybe the forum doesn't allow petitions, "action alerts" and so on, but they do have an "action alert" thread to send to the Senate to confirm Miranda Wecker as Chair of the Fish and Wildlife Commission.
Rich Phillips who was demoted from Sergeant has probably been on the show about 10 times since the show has been around.
Director Anderson is on it every couple months.
I guess we can see who that show is loyal to...
Very telling that this is getting attention.
Post by: jackmaster on March 26, 2014, 08:39:22 PM
I can't wait to here what the good stuff is, I guess you cant tell the hunt-wa members huh? I promise we can keep a secret :chuckle:The Outdoor Line radio show which airs on Saturdays at 7AM on KIRO had a similar thread with some discussion regarding this petition.
I just checked, it has been removed.
At first I thought maybe the forum doesn't allow petitions, "action alerts" and so on, but they do have an "action alert" thread to send to the Senate to confirm Miranda Wecker as Chair of the Fish and Wildlife Commission.
Rich Phillips who was demoted from Sergeant has probably been on the show about 10 times since the show has been around.
Director Anderson is on it every couple months.
I guess we can see who that show is loyal to...
Not a surprise. I think, as well connected as you seem to be, you will notice a lot on tension at WDFW, and soldiers lining up on both sides to the trenches. But the good stuff is still 3 or 4 weeks out.
Post by: Skyhigh on March 27, 2014, 06:44:17 AM
just posted this on another message board here.. http://www.refugeforums.com/refuge/showthread.php?t=968322 (http://www.refugeforums.com/refuge/showthread.php?t=968322)
Should genrate some more chatter and a few more signatures.
Post by: ucwarden on March 27, 2014, 07:01:37 AM
I can't wait to here what the good stuff is, I guess you cant tell the hunt-wa members huh? I promise we can keep a secret :chuckle:The Outdoor Line radio show which airs on Saturdays at 7AM on KIRO had a similar thread with some discussion regarding this petition.
I just checked, it has been removed.
At first I thought maybe the forum doesn't allow petitions, "action alerts" and so on, but they do have an "action alert" thread to send to the Senate to confirm Miranda Wecker as Chair of the Fish and Wildlife Commission.
Rich Phillips who was demoted from Sergeant has probably been on the show about 10 times since the show has been around.
Director Anderson is on it every couple months.
I guess we can see who that show is loyal to...
Not a surprise. I think, as well connected as you seem to be, you will notice a lot on tension at WDFW, and soldiers lining up on both sides to the trenches. But the good stuff is still 3 or 4 weeks out.
Soon enough.
Post by: TheHunt on March 27, 2014, 08:12:04 AM
I did talk to Phil later at a break in which I showed him how information can be disseminated at a moment notice. That individuals or organizations who are old school will find themselves in defense mode rather in progressively moving forward for the betterment of the entire state.
Post by: ucwarden on March 27, 2014, 09:18:37 AM
I think the next two months will get very interesting. You know the pressure is on... I have testified at the Grays Harbor fishing plan. During that time I told Phil and the Fish Commission that social media will make them or break them. If they did not start representing the voting public that most will be gone.
I did talk to Phil later at a break in which I showed him how information can be disseminated at a moment notice. That individuals or organizations who are old school will find themselves in defense mode rather in progressively moving forward for the betterment of the entire state.
Very true
Post by: elk101 on March 27, 2014, 11:54:03 AM
The Outdoor Line radio show which airs on Saturdays at 7AM on KIRO had a similar thread with some discussion regarding this petition.
I just checked, it has been removed.
At first I thought maybe the forum doesn't allow petitions, "action alerts" and so on, but they do have an "action alert" thread to send to the Senate to confirm Miranda Wecker as Chair of the Fish and Wildlife Commission.
Rich Phillips who was demoted from Sergeant has probably been on the show about 10 times since the show has been around.
Director Anderson is on it every couple months.
I guess we can see who that show is loyal to...
Not a surprise. I think, as well connected as you seem to be, you will notice a lot on tension at WDFW, and soldiers lining up on both sides to the trenches. But the good stuff is still 3 or 4 weeks out.
The Outdoor Line radio show which airs on Saturdays at 7AM on KIRO had a similar thread with some discussion regarding this petition.So because the outdoor line has anderson on you assume that they are on his side
I just checked, it has been removed.
At first I thought maybe the forum doesn't allow petitions, "action alerts" and so on, but they do have an "action alert" thread to send to the Senate to confirm Miranda Wecker as Chair of the Fish and Wildlife Commission.
Rich Phillips who was demoted from Sergeant has probably been on the show about 10 times since the show has been around.
Director Anderson is on it every couple months.
I guess we can see who that show is loyal to...
I have listen to that show a lot. They are there to get peole involved into the outdoors weather fish or hunt or the wolf issues. I personly like that our director is on there to speak about issues. Dont recall others doing that unless to get appointed
Post by: bigtex on March 27, 2014, 12:24:26 PM
No not at all. I do agree, it is great Anderson goes on to the show.The Outdoor Line radio show which airs on Saturdays at 7AM on KIRO had a similar thread with some discussion regarding this petition.
I just checked, it has been removed.
At first I thought maybe the forum doesn't allow petitions, "action alerts" and so on, but they do have an "action alert" thread to send to the Senate to confirm Miranda Wecker as Chair of the Fish and Wildlife Commission.
Rich Phillips who was demoted from Sergeant has probably been on the show about 10 times since the show has been around.
Director Anderson is on it every couple months.
I guess we can see who that show is loyal to...
Not a surprise. I think, as well connected as you seem to be, you will notice a lot on tension at WDFW, and soldiers lining up on both sides to the trenches. But the good stuff is still 3 or 4 weeks out.The Outdoor Line radio show which airs on Saturdays at 7AM on KIRO had a similar thread with some discussion regarding this petition.So because the outdoor line has anderson on you assume that they are on his side
I just checked, it has been removed.
At first I thought maybe the forum doesn't allow petitions, "action alerts" and so on, but they do have an "action alert" thread to send to the Senate to confirm Miranda Wecker as Chair of the Fish and Wildlife Commission.
Rich Phillips who was demoted from Sergeant has probably been on the show about 10 times since the show has been around.
Director Anderson is on it every couple months.
I guess we can see who that show is loyal to...
I have listen to that show a lot. They are there to get peole involved into the outdoors weather fish or hunt or the wolf issues. I personly like that our director is on there to speak about issues. Dont recall others doing that unless to get appointed
I have listened to the show since it started and I honestly cant remember a time where the hosts actually challenged Anderson on anything, it was much more of the "what going on?" type of a thing, and not so much of a "why did you do that?"
But it does say something when the thread is deleted. Are only threads that the show agrees about allowed to be on there? Maybe I should post some pro-wolf threads and see if it gets deleted.
Post by: Tbar on March 27, 2014, 12:33:06 PM
Post by: ucwarden on March 27, 2014, 12:42:49 PM
Bigtex or Ucwarden is it possible for the guild or teamsters to do a No Confidence vote in regards to Crown? I know this is more symbolic than anything but I think it would speak volumes and carry more weight than our voices.
It is possible, but I doubt it would happen due to fear of retaliation. Dave Jones had actually proposed such before he was fired. That doesn't give the surviving officers much confidence.
Post by: Tbar on March 27, 2014, 12:43:34 PM
Post by: elk247 on March 28, 2014, 03:20:26 AM
:yeah: Rich is a fair and reasonable guy. Cracks down on the bad guys but treats people with respect. I wish someone could put the good ol' boy politics aside and clean house. I know of a few guys and gals hired in the last 8 yrs. that are worth keeping though. :twocents:I understand you have a strategy and also respect your efforts even if I think there is a "better" approach...you have more information so it may just be a matter of time before I say I was wrong and should have signed weeks ago :chuckle:I'm a little surprised the petition hasn't gotten more signatures yet. Guys on this forum are always complaining about wdfw; here's a good chance to try to get them to change.I have not signed and at this point probably will not simply because I have not seen evidence of singnificant wrong-doing or law breaking by Crown or Anderson...I could care less about Cenci. If there is evidence of specific illegal or unethical acts by these guys and it is presented to the public I would certainly re-consider. Furthermore, I see no plan for improvement. Raising enough heck to get the current admin out with no plan for who the replacement would be seems disastrous if it were to succeed. This is why I mentioned a while back that the petition should be geared towards issues...not people...unless there is specific, detailed evidence describing illegal and unethical behavior or activities by the people named in the petition.
Can someone explain why someone would not want to sign the petition? :dunno: (other than wdfw employees not risking retaliation)
Is it the fear of the unknown about who might replace these guys? Personally, I think it would do some good to shake up wdfw.
Is the root of the problem all the years of having crappy governors in the state? I'd also like to understand the root cause of what we have...........maybe it all started with the merger of game and fish? :dunno:
I don't disagree that there is not substantial room for improvement, but a lot of that improvement needs to come from legislative action...not simply replacing current department heads. Chief Crown is relatively new to his job and based on what I heard him say at a GMAC meeting I think he might have the right attitude...I am at least willing to give him a chance to implement the things he talked about...and if he doesn't then I will be happy to sign a petition. With the current Director, I guess he's on there because of guilt by association...given political climate, legislative requirements etc. I think it would be a mistake to try and get rid of him.
First; I respect your opinion and will not support anyone who gives you grief for not signing the petition.
I want to assure you, and others, there soon will be evidence of wrong-doing, but I simply can't release it yet.
As far as Crown goes, he is a nice enough guy, just not right for the position he has been gifted. Remember that he previously only supervised one single uniformed officer, and now he supervises all of them. If you speak with any WDFW officers who were FTO (Field Training Officers) they will likely tell you that when he ran the training program (his position before being chief) it was a mess. He failed to communicate, didn't follow through, and generally dropped the ball a lot. Also; he was appointed the chief's position after a "nationwide search" which was a joke. The first thing he did was put Cenci back as a deputy chief, then added yet another deputy chief position (first time there have been two DC's). He just gave Cenci the position, but made the people seeking the "other" eputy chief position go through interviews etc. That alone is no way to do business.
My impression of Crown was luke-warm...he didn't strike me as some great leader or anything, but he did say two key things that I appreciated:
1. Wants to hire officers who are connected to the resource...guys that hunt and fish...not
2. Wants officer interactions to be positive for the 99% of folks who are not law breakers...no "its my job to figure out how to write you a ticket" attitudes in the ranks of WDFW
He also said things that were very evasive that left me feeling like he is definitely a bureaucrat. If he accomplishes the two things he talked about I'd be happy with him. I understand talk is cheap but I guess not knowing him I am more willing to give him a shot at righting the ship.
Who would you like to see replace him? Is there anybody in WDFW suited for the job that would have a legitimate shot at getting it or do we need somebody from outside?
As for replacing him, I (and almost everyone) would be happy with Rich Phillips (who was just demoted by Crown), several other supervisors in WDFW, or even better- someone from a totally different F&W agency (out-of-state)
Rich has always been on the right side for what it's worth. :twocents:
Post by: elk101 on March 28, 2014, 03:39:12 PM
I think the next two months will get very interesting. You know the pressure is on... I have testified at the Grays Harbor fishing plan. During that time I told Phil and the Fish Commission that social media will make them or break them. If they did not start representing the voting public that most will be gone.I think the pressure has always been on the top people at wdfw just like any other department . I hope Mr Anderson has thick skin as this isn't the first group that wants him out. Should have seen his email list after x ing a sealion. 400 in one night. You might want to get them people to sign also.
I did talk to Phil later at a break in which I showed him how information can be disseminated at a moment notice. That individuals or organizations who are old school will find themselves in defense mode rather in progressively moving forward for the betterment of the entire state.
I have not heard his side of the story but I do know if I ever do I know it will be the truth.
Do any of you people know if he is a hunter.
Do you know is thoughts on the wolf program
Do you think anyone in this position gets to do what they want without Feds being involved.
Have any of you had a weekend fishing trip canceled because after leaving work on a Friday with the state budget passed then Saturday get word the legislators revoked it and have to work all weekend with them so all wdfw could work Monday
Have the game wardens arguing between marine and wildlife.
How about Wdwf patrolling Seafair does that make since everyone that buys a license thinks that is what supports their salary in reality a very little of those fees goes to that department.
I have read Tod's book months ago and it angered me too.
Poaching has long been a problem but people need to turn people in also. The state cannot hire enough wardens to watch very neck of the woods.
We are loosing more hunting ground every year timber companies are selling limited permits now. This is going to put more pressure on public lands.
Do not blame the state for this. This was brought on by people trashing the equipment and leaving garbage all over.
Personally I will not sign a petition that only has one side of a story and doesn't have a well thought out alternative to start. I am not willing to take a chance on non hunters or fishermen getting to the head of the wdfw
Post by: buckfvr on March 28, 2014, 03:43:42 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on March 28, 2014, 03:43:57 PM
Post by: bigtex on March 28, 2014, 04:11:06 PM
How about Wdwf patrolling Seafair does that make since everyone that buys a license thinks that is what supports their salary in reality a very little of those fees goes to that department.WDFW gets the equivalent of one full officer position per year from a State Parks grant for boating safety enforcement. Per this grant, WDFW must work SeaFair.
Post by: PLUVIUSWAPITI on March 28, 2014, 05:02:15 PM
Post by: Special T on March 30, 2014, 05:57:39 PM
The question is "What has the WDFW done for hunters and anglers lately?" It may be able to put on a better show for the fishery side than the hunting. IDK. If Phil is a duck hunter he could at least do 1 thing even if it was just the gesture. Why not tell the public he is for a separate merganser season... Granted He could not change that by himself, but just stating and attempting that, even if weakly it would do something for his/departments image.
WDFW plays DEFENSE on all the issues. Playing great defense wont move your department forward (And i don't thing they are even doing a stellar job just playing D :twocents: " Granted they cannot push every issue forward, and have to hold back in cases... There are MANY opportunities out there they COULD pursue but don't because they are too timid, and apparently have a bunch of management that do not hunt or fish pushing policy. Its hard to get behind a department that makes proposals that are so asinine that ANYONE with hunting experience could do better.
Post by: Forks on March 30, 2014, 06:47:32 PM
Post by: jackmaster on March 31, 2014, 06:44:13 AM
Do you think it is possible that there are non management folk at WDFW that do not fish or hunt that push their own agenda fully realizing that their jobs are safe because they work for the state?:yeah: good question, my thoughts would be yes, i would think so, especially the infiltrators that are the tree/bunny huggers that are dug in at the department that like to push their agenda and give their thoughts, my personal belief is WDFW needs a major overhaul, get back to what is suppose to be about, protecting wildlife from poachers and predators, give more to the sportfisherman and less to the commercial guys, it all starts at the top, attitude reflects leadership, and the attitude isnt to great at WDFW or the perception of the place to the sportsman.... UC is there any change in the amount of signatures? what is the number at? :tup:
Post by: Curly on March 31, 2014, 09:32:20 AM
Post by: jackmaster on March 31, 2014, 12:07:06 PM
I just looked and it is at 1,144 signatures.awesome, thanks curly :tup:
Post by: Tbar on March 31, 2014, 02:13:46 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on March 31, 2014, 02:22:27 PM
I just looked and it is at 1,144 signatures.That is just over 80 signatures this past week, things are starting to taper off a bit. We need a rally push to get to the new goal of 1500.
Post by: elk101 on March 31, 2014, 05:48:05 PM
Maybe people are thinking with their big head now the way that it should be.I just looked and it is at 1,144 signatures.That is just over 80 signatures this past week, things are starting to taper off a bit. We need a rally push to get to the new goal of 1500.
Post by: Tbar on April 01, 2014, 08:42:19 AM
Please elaborate elk 101. What was everyone thinking with before?Maybe people are thinking with their big head now the way that it should be.I just looked and it is at 1,144 signatures.That is just over 80 signatures this past week, things are starting to taper off a bit. We need a rally push to get to the new goal of 1500.
You have brought up some good points in a prior post, some points that would only come from someone that has some intimate knowledge of certain situations within the the wdfw.
Post by: elk101 on April 01, 2014, 11:26:26 AM
My point was everyone thinks that the wdfw is not protecting the deer and elk when in the overall sceme of things their hands might also be tied to budgets.Please elaborate elk 101. What was everyone thinking with before?Maybe people are thinking with their big head now the way that it should be.I just looked and it is at 1,144 signatures.That is just over 80 signatures this past week, things are starting to taper off a bit. We need a rally push to get to the new goal of 1500.
You have brought up some good points in a prior post, some points that would only come from someone that has some intimate knowledge of certain situations within the the wdfw.
I do not have any ties to wdfw other than knowing a lot of the people retired ones and hired ones
I have met Mike Cenci but that is it so I cannot say if he is good or bad I have heard views from both sides of the wardens ones that don't like him and others that do like him.
So not fair for me to judge.
Steve crown I have only seen him at a retirement party where he spoke so again I cannot not tell people what he like.
Mr. Anderson though I have known for a long time.
I will not state what he thinks as it is not my job but for people that think they can put another person in charge and think that you can go in and clean house is mistaken let them try that with in there own jobs let alone the state agency.
I have heard from a lot of sportsmen and they all think that the head people want to not let people hunt or fish and they are pushing wolves and want them ousted.
I am in the construction business an we are fighting pocket gophers wdfw has to protect them. Feds are going to list them so building will be come to a halt in Thurston county this has affected not only private but Tumwater schools and the port of Olympia. Their are Wdfw biologist that look for these endangered wildlife and fight to protect it. The wardens and head of the departments have to go by fed their views mean nothing.
Ask Idaho about their wolf plan that the feds pushed on them do you think that firing their top people would have stopped it
I don't care who you put in charge their are Issues that need to be addressed but you cannot go in and clean house and expect that some hard nose is going to get things done that will make you happy.
I have seen post that people are surprised that the director showed up at meeting state he is trying to make a good show now that they trying to get him out.
Stuff like that doesn't surprise the ones that have been around Phil. He wants to know as much about everything that he can about stuff he works on. He studies how stuff works not just WDFW stuff but from anything he owns.
I am very confident that if he gets all the facts truthfully he does the right thing.
I read Todd's book Have not discussed it Phil other than asked if he read it. Again if you want to know ask him.
I asked other people about the book also.
Lot of bad stuff in the book some of it had to do with deer and elk but a lot was other things that should also be pursued but with fed money not wdfw money why should they be dealing with paddle fish from Ok.
I quit hunting this state for Elk long ago went to Idaho have since quit because of the elk population.
Back when I hunted elk here you had to pick tag and weapon very few quality hunts
Now I have fellow workers that get multi season tags or extra cow elk tags for advance hunter cards more chances to hunt but reading the post everyone thinks it is worse now.
In 1988 when I decide to hunt elk out of state the Wa elk population was around 25000 head with a kill % 0f around 8% you got 9 days to hunt with a rifle in Nov. Then there was I think around 70000 people hunting Wa.
Think managing that many was easy.
Idaho back then had 70000 elk and 25000 hunters what is easier to manage.
So all you people that think you can go in and change things go ahead but wa st has to much population to make things pleasant for everyone.
All the wolf lovers and peta people like all this bickering because they have a better chance at getting theirs in.
Post by: Tbar on April 01, 2014, 03:32:48 PM
If you know many wdfw guys then you tell me how is morale (simply your opinion)? I have known many officers too, Clayton Barnes, Ralph woods, Bob Forbes, Terry Abrahms, amongst many others. I have also met/dealt with several in administration. One thing I can tell you with ALL of my dealings is there was a sense of pride in who they were and what they did. I also should add that all the dealings were not always on the easiest terms (politics always bring a level of difficulty). I don't see that in many of today's employees with the department. I have even seen a sense of almost defeat (for lack ofa better term) when it comes to being allowed to do their job, which I see as an attempt to protect our natural resources to the best of their ability. I personally (and this is only my opinion) have never seen morale at this low of levels.
Now to the petition. There has to be a root to the degradation of morale. It is more than the fact that some are resistant to change(we all know change is inevitable and those who refuse to change will be left behind). There is a culture within the department (from my outside observation) of follow or be punished. I don't see leadership by example. I see lines of division deeply rooted and leadership using a culture of fear. I see the enforcement department of the wdfw in desperate need of implosion. There is a need for leadership that can and will lead by example (there is a very skilled and willing workforce within the ranks of the department). I see the wdfw losing true leaders at an alarming rate. This requires looking past "titles" as many leaders are at the field levels (by choice I would guess). They are the most integral part of the team, they are where the rubber meets the road. Many of these guys are leaving as a direct result of the integrity of their leaders (as many have been openly vocal about). I can say the attitude of do as I say NOT as I do, is a poor method of leadership.
I will bring up another point that has me taking a stance so to speak. If you run my name into the ground and make claims about me I will respond. Cenci has taken the route of silence for the most part. When not silent he sounds uninterested or worse vindictive (I will elaborate a little later). I know middle management(again for lack ofa better term) is a tough place to be (Cenci). I know there are very tough decisions that absolutely must be made and sometimes changes need to be made as a given situation evolves. I recognize that there are two sides to every story but have yet to hear a rebuttal (with possibly the dismissal of Dave Jones, that may be what you get for disagreeing with the powers). If you are in a political public arena I will concede that you walk a slippery slope and must pick and choose your words. However in this case silence speaks volumes both with rank and file and the public. One good measure ofa man/character is how he is judged by his peers... Well I have seen very limited support of Crown or Cenci, that too speaks volumes.
I will echo some of your(elk101) sentiment when it comes to Phil Anderson and the complexities of the wdfw. They definitely have to represent more than our(sportsman) interest. Anybody who doesn't recognize that is simply uneducated on the composition of this state and the voting public. The pro Wolf community and furthermore the anti hunting are well funded and havea strong following in our state. These groups are for the most part well educated(although illogical) and definitely have political pull.
Post by: Curly on April 02, 2014, 08:05:09 AM
And separate from the enforcement issues that prompted the petition, it seems that as director, Anderson could helped prevent some of the stupid decisions that wdfw has done over the last several years. The Wolf plan is just idiotic, the cougar management strategy is idiotic, and when wdfw made hunting coyote with dogs illegal they were making policy against sportsmen ......why couldn't he step up in favor of sportsmen instead of letting his department make it seem like it's wdfw against us?
Since 1996 when stupid voters changed the game with predators, wdfw should have been more aggressive with predator management, instead they keep making stupid moves. Why can't Anderson help steer the department's philosophy more toward less predators?
I really doubt that the commission would vote to remove Anderson anyway. And he is likely better than someone that this commission would appoint.
Post by: jackmaster on April 02, 2014, 08:50:06 AM
Post by: sakoshooter on April 06, 2014, 12:17:44 PM
Eradication of northern pike that have naturally migrated into WA is a perfect example of the WDFW's ineptitude led by Anderson. Mr Anderson stopped responding to my emails over 4 yrs ago. Fact based emails sent as the president of Cascade Musky Association. I lost my respect for him long ago unfortunately.
Post by: Forks on April 06, 2014, 12:21:31 PM
If memory serves, Anderson came from AK and was liked because of his knowledge of salmon. Also, if memory serves, he's done better than his predecessors on salmon but sucks in my opinion on everything else - inland fisheries and hunting is definitely not his forte.Director Anderson is not from Alaska. You are thinking of the former director.
Eradication of northern pike that have naturally migrated into WA is a perfect example of the WDFW's ineptitude led by Anderson. Mr Anderson stopped responding to my emails over 4 yrs ago. Fact based emails sent as the president of Cascade Musky Association. I lost my respect for him long ago unfortunately.
Post by: elk101 on April 06, 2014, 12:48:59 PM
Post by: bowbuild on April 06, 2014, 01:02:34 PM
Bowbuild
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 06, 2014, 02:26:39 PM
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on April 06, 2014, 05:56:09 PM
I think they should split the department back to what it use to be, use 2 directors one for fish, one for game. I know when there is too much on the plate for me I concentrate on what I know the best....nobody is good at everything!
Bowbuild
:kneel:
BEST idea YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :tup:
Post by: jackmaster on April 07, 2014, 06:32:57 AM
:kneel:this is so true, the only problem i have with it is that if you cant handle thr stress and rigors of this job then dont throw your hat into the ring, and this is where deligation comes into play and you use the knowledge of the men and women around you, they have plenty of guys and gals in the wdfw that have alot of expirience that should be tasked if the "plate" gets to full for mr. anderson :dunno: and that jackwad from todds book would have gotton alot harsher punishment if the prosecutor would have had the FULL backing of the wdfw, but when you drag your heels and not give that case your full involvement then that kind of B.S happens, and we the voters just sit around and take it in the shorts, when we should be asking for this prosecutors head :tup: :twocents:I think they should split the department back to what it use to be, use 2 directors one for fish, one for game. I know when there is too much on the plate for me I concentrate on what I know the best....nobody is good at everything!
Bowbuild
:kneel:
BEST idea YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :tup:
Post by: bowbuild on April 07, 2014, 10:42:32 AM
:kneel:this is so true, the only problem i have with it is that if you cant handle thr stress and rigors of this job then dont throw your hat into the ring, and this is where deligation comes into play and you use the knowledge of the men and women around you, they have plenty of guys and gals in the wdfw that have alot of expirience that should be tasked if the "plate" gets to full for mr. anderson :dunno: and that jackwad from todds book would have gotton alot harsher punishment if the prosecutor would have had the FULL backing of the wdfw, but when you drag your heels and not give that case your full involvement then that kind of B.S happens, and we the voters just sit around and take it in the shorts, when we should be asking for this prosecutors head :tup: :twocents:I think they should split the department back to what it use to be, use 2 directors one for fish, one for game. I know when there is too much on the plate for me I concentrate on what I know the best....nobody is good at everything!
Bowbuild
:kneel:
BEST idea YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :tup:
[/quote
Only problem I see there is even if you assign someone to a particular task, and they achieve it.....but the final decision is left up to a director that has little interest, or experience in that part of the department.....you end up with the same screwed up decisions.
VMB
Post by: jackmaster on April 07, 2014, 12:08:23 PM
Post by: bigtex on April 07, 2014, 04:18:13 PM
matter of fact they should hire 5 or 6 lawyers and pay them well that their job is to do nothing but try wildlife crimes, it would be their specialty and they would get good bonuses for the more years they put those scud bottom vagrants away for :tup:Counties prosecute state and county cases, not individual agencies. Even if WDFW hired lawyers, counties would basically have to deputize/appoint them as deputy prosecutors in order for them to prosecute cases on their behalf, I guarantee you there would be a few hold outs, just like how some Sheriff's don't deputize other agencies. You then also have the issue of WDFW arresting the individual and WDFW also prosecuting them, think that will cause an issue? Bet ya it will.
State law does allow the WDFW Commission to ask the Attorney General's Office to prosecute a case when a county prosecutor fails to act, however this is rarely done and obviously it would have to be a significant case in order for WDFW to ask for it.
Post by: bowbuild on April 07, 2014, 06:33:55 PM
matter of fact they should hire 5 or 6 lawyers and pay them well that their job is to do nothing but try wildlife crimes, it would be their specialty and they would get good bonuses for the more years they put those scud bottom vagrants away for :tup:Counties prosecute state and county cases, not individual agencies. Even if WDFW hired lawyers, counties would basically have to deputize/appoint them as deputy prosecutors in order for them to prosecute cases on their behalf, I guarantee you there would be a few hold outs, just like how some Sheriff's don't deputize other agencies. You then also have the issue of WDFW arresting the individual and WDFW also prosecuting them, think that will cause an issue? Bet ya it will.
State law does allow the WDFW Commission to ask the Attorney General's Office to prosecute a case when a county prosecutor fails to act, however this is rarely done and obviously it would have to be a significant case in order for WDFW to ask for it.
What about a state mandatory minimun sentence guideline? Please don't tell me it can't be done. If you can have a 3 strikes out guideline, and federal mandatory minimum sentencing guideline for drug users/dealers what could possibly be the issue? Do federal sentecing guidelines have more "teeth" to them??? Can the department/state refer the more serious cases to a federal prosecutor??
Bowbuild
Post by: bigtex on April 07, 2014, 08:25:46 PM
I've been a big advocate for mandatory minimum sentences for natural resource offenses, it can certainly be done. But a lot of people (especially on this forum) don't like mandatory minimums.What about a state mandatory minimun sentence guideline? Please don't tell me it can't be done. If you can have a 3 strikes out guideline, and federal mandatory minimum sentencing guideline for drug users/dealers what could possibly be the issue? Do federal sentecing guidelines have more "teeth" to them??? Can the department/state refer the more serious cases to a federal prosecutor??matter of fact they should hire 5 or 6 lawyers and pay them well that their job is to do nothing but try wildlife crimes, it would be their specialty and they would get good bonuses for the more years they put those scud bottom vagrants away for :tup:Counties prosecute state and county cases, not individual agencies. Even if WDFW hired lawyers, counties would basically have to deputize/appoint them as deputy prosecutors in order for them to prosecute cases on their behalf, I guarantee you there would be a few hold outs, just like how some Sheriff's don't deputize other agencies. You then also have the issue of WDFW arresting the individual and WDFW also prosecuting them, think that will cause an issue? Bet ya it will.
State law does allow the WDFW Commission to ask the Attorney General's Office to prosecute a case when a county prosecutor fails to act, however this is rarely done and obviously it would have to be a significant case in order for WDFW to ask for it.
Regarding the feds, the feds are really limited in what they can prosecute. For the feds to be able to even investigate/look into a case a violation of federal law must occur. Somebody going up to the local tree farm and whipping out 30 elk and leaving them to rot is a terrible offense, but no federal law was violated.
So for "typical" poaching you are simply limited to federally protected species (endangered species, migratory birds, etc), violations that occurred on federal land, or fish/wildlife that was taken unlawfully (anywhere) and transported over certain types of federal land (in WA this includes USFS lands, Rainier and Olympic Parks, and Lake Roosevelt Rec Area.) Outside of those three areas the feds don't really have authority.
And probably the worst thing are federal prosecutor. You don't become an Assistant US Attorney to prosecute natural resource offenders, you become an AUSA to prosecute terrorists, serial killers, and so on. So just like how we're seeing terrible sentences from many counties in WA, for the most part we are seeing terrible sentences from the federal courts in WA as well. Federally, WA is split into two US Court Districts; eastern and western. Surprisingly, the western WA federal prosecutor and court have historically been better than the eastside. It's actually ridiculous how the eastern WA federal court views natural resource cases.
Post by: bowbuild on April 07, 2014, 10:17:19 PM
I've been a big advocate for mandatory minimum sentences for natural resource offenses, it can certainly be done. But a lot of people (especially on this forum) don't like mandatory minimums.What about a state mandatory minimun sentence guideline? Please don't tell me it can't be done. If you can have a 3 strikes out guideline, and federal mandatory minimum sentencing guideline for drug users/dealers what could possibly be the issue? Do federal sentecing guidelines have more "teeth" to them??? Can the department/state refer the more serious cases to a federal prosecutor??matter of fact they should hire 5 or 6 lawyers and pay them well that their job is to do nothing but try wildlife crimes, it would be their specialty and they would get good bonuses for the more years they put those scud bottom vagrants away for :tup:Counties prosecute state and county cases, not individual agencies. Even if WDFW hired lawyers, counties would basically have to deputize/appoint them as deputy prosecutors in order for them to prosecute cases on their behalf, I guarantee you there would be a few hold outs, just like how some Sheriff's don't deputize other agencies. You then also have the issue of WDFW arresting the individual and WDFW also prosecuting them, think that will cause an issue? Bet ya it will.
State law does allow the WDFW Commission to ask the Attorney General's Office to prosecute a case when a county prosecutor fails to act, however this is rarely done and obviously it would have to be a significant case in order for WDFW to ask for it.
Regarding the feds, the feds are really limited in what they can prosecute. For the feds to be able to even investigate/look into a case a violation of federal law must occur. Somebody going up to the local tree farm and whipping out 30 elk and leaving them to rot is a terrible offense, but no federal law was violated.
So for "typical" poaching you are simply limited to federally protected species (endangered species, migratory birds, etc), violations that occurred on federal land, or fish/wildlife that was taken unlawfully (anywhere) and transported over certain types of federal land (in WA this includes USFS lands, Rainier and Olympic Parks, and Lake Roosevelt Rec Area.) Outside of those three areas the feds don't really have authority.
And probably the worst thing are federal prosecutor. You don't become an Assistant US Attorney to prosecute natural resource offenders, you become an AUSA to prosecute terrorists, serial killers, and so on. So just like how we're seeing terrible sentences from many counties in WA, for the most part we are seeing terrible sentences from the federal courts in WA as well. Federally, WA is split into two US Court Districts; eastern and western. Surprisingly, the western WA federal prosecutor and court have historically been better than the eastside. It's actually ridiculous how the eastern WA federal court views natural resource cases.
They don't like mandatory minimums for natural resource crimes, or they don't like them for other things?
Post by: jackmaster on April 08, 2014, 06:46:16 AM
Post by: Gringo31 on April 08, 2014, 09:19:56 AM
Who has the authority to revoke privileges?
Post by: bigtex on April 08, 2014, 09:21:34 AM
Natural resources. Every time I bring it up I get booed. Too much of "well what about the guy who made a mistake."They don't like mandatory minimums for natural resource crimes, or they don't like them for other things?I've been a big advocate for mandatory minimum sentences for natural resource offenses, it can certainly be done. But a lot of people (especially on this forum) don't like mandatory minimums.What about a state mandatory minimun sentence guideline? Please don't tell me it can't be done. If you can have a 3 strikes out guideline, and federal mandatory minimum sentencing guideline for drug users/dealers what could possibly be the issue? Do federal sentecing guidelines have more "teeth" to them??? Can the department/state refer the more serious cases to a federal prosecutor??matter of fact they should hire 5 or 6 lawyers and pay them well that their job is to do nothing but try wildlife crimes, it would be their specialty and they would get good bonuses for the more years they put those scud bottom vagrants away for :tup:Counties prosecute state and county cases, not individual agencies. Even if WDFW hired lawyers, counties would basically have to deputize/appoint them as deputy prosecutors in order for them to prosecute cases on their behalf, I guarantee you there would be a few hold outs, just like how some Sheriff's don't deputize other agencies. You then also have the issue of WDFW arresting the individual and WDFW also prosecuting them, think that will cause an issue? Bet ya it will.
State law does allow the WDFW Commission to ask the Attorney General's Office to prosecute a case when a county prosecutor fails to act, however this is rarely done and obviously it would have to be a significant case in order for WDFW to ask for it.
Regarding the feds, the feds are really limited in what they can prosecute. For the feds to be able to even investigate/look into a case a violation of federal law must occur. Somebody going up to the local tree farm and whipping out 30 elk and leaving them to rot is a terrible offense, but no federal law was violated.
So for "typical" poaching you are simply limited to federally protected species (endangered species, migratory birds, etc), violations that occurred on federal land, or fish/wildlife that was taken unlawfully (anywhere) and transported over certain types of federal land (in WA this includes USFS lands, Rainier and Olympic Parks, and Lake Roosevelt Rec Area.) Outside of those three areas the feds don't really have authority.
And probably the worst thing are federal prosecutor. You don't become an Assistant US Attorney to prosecute natural resource offenders, you become an AUSA to prosecute terrorists, serial killers, and so on. So just like how we're seeing terrible sentences from many counties in WA, for the most part we are seeing terrible sentences from the federal courts in WA as well. Federally, WA is split into two US Court Districts; eastern and western. Surprisingly, the western WA federal prosecutor and court have historically been better than the eastside. It's actually ridiculous how the eastern WA federal court views natural resource cases.
Post by: buckfvr on April 08, 2014, 09:46:31 AM
BIGTEX i am sure the fellas from the forum would be ok with mandatory sentences for wildlife crimes, now i aint talkn about not wearing hunter orange, but anything that was described in uc's book should carry a serious minimum time in the klink :tup:
Yep.....crimes for profit, and crimes of gross wasting...........HANG EM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Special T on April 08, 2014, 09:51:41 AM
I guess we just lack faith in the system to do what is right since we have not seen in work very well.
Is there some distinction that can be legally made between a "professional" poatcher and some one who just screwed up? Some way to create a minimum sentancing for a habitual poatcher, or someone who has killed/sold multipal animals?
Post by: bigtex on April 08, 2014, 10:07:21 AM
I understand where BT is comeing from, and it appears that the system will NOT work to our liking no matter what. Either we end up having real dirtbags get off easy, OR people who make a mistake get the hammer dropped on them. :bash:We will never have one "perfect" answer. Some may like a mandatory minimum fine, others will not. Some want a $2,000 fine, others want it to be $500. We just had the debate about the just passed law for a $2,000 mandatory fine for over length white sturgeon.
I guess we just lack faith in the system to do what is right since we have not seen in work very well.
Is there some distinction that can be legally made between a "professional" poatcher and some one who just screwed up? Some way to create a minimum sentancing for a habitual poatcher, or someone who has killed/sold multipal animals?
To answer your question, not really. The Class C Felony big game offense occurs when you have a previous big game conviction within the previous 10 years and then committed another big game offense, or the actions were apart of "spree killing." But again, no mandatory minimum, there are felony sentencing guidelines, but for the first time felony it's $0 criminal fine and 0 days in jail, the only fine mandatory would be the big game mandatory civil fines.
To top it off, you now have counties (such as Kittitas) where they will plea your big game violations down to a non-criminal infraction, basically pay the mandatory big game fine, be a good boy for 6 months or a year and the would-be criminal gross misdemeanor conviction turns into a ticketable offense. So in this case you couldn't even charge the guy two years later for the felony offense because he wasn't convicted of the gross misdemeanor offense previously, but rather pled it down to a simply ticket.
Post by: vandeman17 on April 08, 2014, 10:11:10 AM
Post by: Curly on April 08, 2014, 10:17:10 AM
In other words if the judge had a brain, then mandatory minimums shouldn't be necessary........the judge would throw the book at them and justice could be served. Apparently mandatory minimums are a necessity as evidenced by what we see these judges handing out. Justice has not been served in this case........how many people really think the judge did the right thing in this case? :dunno: It is really appalling how light some of these sentences are...... :o
What I want to know is how much blame can be laid on Cenci for his actions in the case, and how much blame laid on the prosecutor, and how much on the judge? Or did Bona Bunphoath have such a great defense attorney that he ended up with such a great deal? :dunno:
Basically, I want to know all the details of why the sentence is so light. Ucwarden - maybe a sequel to Operation Cody is in order......... :dunno:
Post by: bigtex on April 08, 2014, 10:22:36 AM
and how much blame laid on the prosecutor, and how much on the judge?People always blame the judge, but who makes the plea deals? Not the judge, it's the prosecutor!
Certainly, a judge can reject a plea deal, problem is there is the unwritten respect "code" between judges and prosecutors to the point where it is basically shocking when a judge rejects a plea deal.
For me, my anger with a lack of sentencing is with the prosecutors, they are the one who charges people, makes plea deals, and in many cases makes the suggestion for the sentences. The judge is basically there to agree and very rarely disagree.
Post by: bowbuild on April 08, 2014, 10:23:04 AM
You may say that the public is the one that needs to address this, and they should......on the other hand we don't have yrs of dealing with agencies like you, and other law enforcement prosecutors ect. Keep in mind the public "thinks" this is your job, you are professionals regardless of directors, or other staff, and your inner banterings. You know as well as I do that unless you are part of law enforcement and/or a lawyer the general consensus is you don't belong here, you are not one of us....you could be as smart as any attorney, know the law frontward, and backward and be laughed out of the court.....again you don't belong. You MUST know this.
The problem generally in society, and law enforcement is "balance." Law enforcement because you see all the bad, compiles all poachers into one group. There is a difference between a guy that mistakes, or shoots a animal in the heat of the moment, or one that claims to shoots for food. (at least in the publics eyes). Then there is the Cody case, and the kill them all boys that are blatant wildlife exterminators. I would assume you see no difference, and I would also assume you see they should be prosecuted equally.....( hopefully I am assuming wrong)I also think this is where people jump off the boat with law enforcement........regardless of how much people on this board like to reflect a positive role in standing shoulder to shoulder with law enforcement....just my thoughts. Off my soap box. :hello:
Bowbuild
Post by: bigtex on April 08, 2014, 10:29:06 AM
Thanks for your suggestion. WDFW has been making progress with the penalty assessments which are civil and are assessed when certain fish/wildlife are taken unlawfully. For many years it was just big game and protected wildlife, couple years ago a few protected birds were added to the list, this year wild salmon/steelhead, green sturgeon, and oversized white sturgeon were added. However, these aren't mandatory minimum criminal fines, but civil.
I pay attention to a lot of law enforcement related topics in the legislature. Quite honestly, there are so few mandatory minimum criminal sentences in WA that it's ridiculous. There is one for possession of marijuana, which now just applies to those under 21, there's one for possessing and providing a fake ID for purposes of purchasing alcohol. About 5 years ago 4 Republican Representatives wanted to make it a mandatory minimum $500 criminal fine for providing/selling alcohol to a minor, it couldn't be deferred, suspended, etc, it was simply you're guilty now pay up. The bill never got a hearing.
Post by: Special T on April 08, 2014, 10:40:11 AM
Post by: bowbuild on April 08, 2014, 10:43:33 AM
I hate to include this group, but they could have their use. Animal activists would like nothing more than to turn the screws tighter on slob hunters.....use them. They with their finances could be a game changer for you, and all of wildlife. It "could" be the one thing hunters/non-hunters see eye to eye on. Keep your friends close....your enmies closer... :tup:
Bowbuild
Post by: bigtex on April 08, 2014, 10:48:10 AM
I was talking about this topic with a friend last night. Operation "falcon" came up where the feds did a sting on illegal raptor killings and ammased a HUGE ammound of evidence and the whole thing turned into a joke because of the court system. I thought this problem was limited to the WDFW and apparently it is not.It's the same, if not worse, with most federal prosecutors. Each federal district is different (WA is two districts) but generally speaking, the feds aren't great at prosecuting federal natural resource crimes.
Post by: sakoshooter on April 08, 2014, 11:27:25 AM
If I knew that EVERY SINGLE PERSON caught and convicted actually had those minimum fines assessed to them then I would be ok with it even if I made an honest mistake and got booked for it. Call it taking one for the team or whatever but if its for the greater good then so be it. The one downside I see with the minimum fines is that it will cause many guys, and rightfully so, to think twice before turning themselves in for an honest mistake. :twocents:
Post by: Skyhigh on April 10, 2014, 06:28:08 AM
Post by: sakoshooter on April 10, 2014, 12:41:00 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 10, 2014, 12:42:32 PM
Post by: ucwarden on April 10, 2014, 05:27:58 PM
I asked that same question on Monday - still no response.
Sorry guys, for being absent for a while.
Many of you have asked what is happening with the petition, so here is my watered down response (watered down because I am fairly sure some of the very people I was working to remove read this thread):
I wanted to gather 1,000 signatures in a one week period, not because the number would be stunning but rather the speed in which I could get 1,000 people to sign. That alone should get the attention of those I am working to convince that change needs to occur.
I have also submitted 7 different PDR's (Public Disclosure Requests- the state equivalent of the federal Freedom of Information Act) to WDFW, in an effort to get some solid proof of what believe is going on.
I am working with several reporters, who hopefully will be interviewing witnesses (which I provided to them), and going through the documentation I have provided and will provide when I get the PDR returns.
Around the end of the month, I will let it all fly. The media, the legislators, the governor, the commission and all of you will know what I (we) have for evidence of wrongdoing, and then it's up to everyone else to force change.
I think the evidence is overwhelming, but I am not exactly neutral, so it will but up to the law makers and the public to decide.
I am sorry I can't be more specific at this time, but the more I disclose, the better prepared my opponents can be. They certainly know some of what I have, but nowhere near all of it.
Thanks for being patient everyone.
Post by: Rainier10 on April 10, 2014, 07:12:21 PM
Post by: Forks on April 11, 2014, 04:35:22 PM
Post by: jackmaster on April 11, 2014, 05:09:59 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on April 11, 2014, 05:40:03 PM
Post by: ucwarden on April 11, 2014, 08:16:36 PM
Is there a campfire and some guys sitting around it involved in your secret?
Something like that
Post by: ucwarden on April 11, 2014, 08:17:41 PM
Yes, thanks a bunch for all that you are doing!! Man, can you imagine if guys like you were in charge. If I ever meet you, I hope to be able to buy you a beer and have the honor to shake your hand.
Thanks, I just hope I don't come up short.....but gotta at least try.
Post by: jackmaster on April 11, 2014, 09:50:44 PM
Yes, thanks a bunch for all that you are doing!! Man, can you imagine if guys like you were in charge. If I ever meet you, I hope to be able to buy you a beer and have the honor to shake your hand.you will have to buy him a soda, cause he dont drink no more :chuckle: Imagine the stories he has that aren't written down.... I know if i get a chance to meet uc or bigtex I will be buying a few rounds of their favorite livation :tup:
Post by: ucwarden on April 12, 2014, 06:58:54 AM
Yes, thanks a bunch for all that you are doing!! Man, can you imagine if guys like you were in charge. If I ever meet you, I hope to be able to buy you a beer and have the honor to shake your hand.you will have to buy him a soda, cause he dont drink no more :chuckle: Imagine the stories he has that aren't written down.... I know if i get a chance to meet uc or bigtex I will be buying a few rounds of their favorite livation :tup:
Jackmaster is right; no more drinking for me. Got to liking it way too much, so 4 years ago I fixed that problem. Thanks
Post by: sakoshooter on April 12, 2014, 09:15:56 PM
Post by: sakoshooter on April 12, 2014, 09:17:21 PM
Post by: ucwarden on April 13, 2014, 06:51:06 AM
Congrats UC on the quiting. Did the same for the same reasons almost 13 yrs ago. Much better for it.
Thanks
Post by: ucwarden on May 07, 2014, 02:32:57 PM
I need to talk to him ASAP.
Post by: pianoman9701 on May 07, 2014, 02:35:56 PM
Does anyone know how to get in touch with "WSU"? I tried sending him a pm, but it says his inbox is full.
I need to talk to him ASAP.
Post a thread under State agencies. He'll see it.
Post by: Bob33 on May 19, 2014, 03:12:54 PM
:dunno:I asked that same question on Monday - still no response.
Sorry guys, for being absent for a while.
Many of you have asked what is happening with the petition, so here is my watered down response (watered down because I am fairly sure some of the very people I was working to remove read this thread):
I wanted to gather 1,000 signatures in a one week period, not because the number would be stunning but rather the speed in which I could get 1,000 people to sign. That alone should get the attention of those I am working to convince that change needs to occur.
I have also submitted 7 different PDR's (Public Disclosure Requests- the state equivalent of the federal Freedom of Information Act) to WDFW, in an effort to get some solid proof of what believe is going on.
I am working with several reporters, who hopefully will be interviewing witnesses (which I provided to them), and going through the documentation I have provided and will provide when I get the PDR returns.
Around the end of the month, I will let it all fly. The media, the legislators, the governor, the commission and all of you will know what I (we) have for evidence of wrongdoing, and then it's up to everyone else to force change.
I think the evidence is overwhelming, but I am not exactly neutral, so it will but up to the law makers and the public to decide.
I am sorry I can't be more specific at this time, but the more I disclose, the better prepared my opponents can be. They certainly know some of what I have, but nowhere near all of it.
Thanks for being patient everyone.
Post by: jackmaster on May 19, 2014, 03:23:35 PM
Post by: ucwarden on May 19, 2014, 05:31:35 PM
i will be as patient as need be, cant rush, even though its been awhile with no update, i will remain optomistic :tup:
Things are going way slower than I had hoped, but also way better. It will be worth the wait. Please be patient, I haven't forgotten to keep all of you posted.
Post by: jackmaster on May 19, 2014, 08:52:43 PM
th :tup:thats enough for me uc, I will continue to be patient, but i gotta be honest, I am like a damn kid on xmas eve waiting for presents :chuckle:i will be as patient as need be, cant rush, even though its been awhile with no update, i will remain optomistic :tup:
Things are going way slower than I had hoped, but also way better. It will be worth the wait. Please be patient, I haven't forgotten to keep all of you posted.
Post by: BowForElk on May 26, 2014, 07:31:07 PM
Forgive me if this was already answered I'm noting to lie I didn't read all 20 pages before posting… :sry:
Post by: ucwarden on May 27, 2014, 07:37:35 AM
signed! it says only 224 more to go! So what happens when we reach our goal?
Forgive me if this was already answered I'm noting to lie I didn't read all 20 pages before posting… :sry:
No problem. My goal was to get 1,000 signatures in one week, which was accomplished. I plan to take the petition, as well as a great deal of incriminating material to the public fairly soon in hopes of forcing change.
I have been working, over the last few months, gathering material and interviewing people to make sure I am loaded with as much ammunition as possible. It has taken way longer than I had hoped, but it is coming long very well.
I hope to let it all rip in a few weeks.
Post by: johnnyaustin44 on May 27, 2014, 03:33:52 PM
Post by: ucwarden on May 27, 2014, 05:37:48 PM
It'd be great if you could wait for the draw results to come out :chuckle: :chuckle: so they don't take any longer than normal. Hope to see some changes come from all your hard work.
That's good. I am pretty sure that if they were gong to screw with anyone's drawing results, it would be mine.
I have a hunt planned in Idaho this year just to make sure I at least have a chance.
Post by: Special T on May 27, 2014, 08:29:11 PM
Post by: sakoshooter on May 28, 2014, 03:07:09 AM
Post by: ucwarden on May 28, 2014, 06:04:41 AM
There have been statements in other threads regaurding the likely hood of gettin anyone better/ worse for the job. Our current govenor is not really a friend of hunting so what is the likelyhood?
It depends on which position/person you are referring to. If it's the director position; I am guessing they would put the Deputy Director in as Director, at least until they could find a new director. Since I am not a big fan of how the agency is working right now, I am not too concerned with who might replace Anderson, because I am not sure we could do any worse.
If you are referring to the enforcement program (Chief and Deputy Chief), then I assure you they would have to struggle to do worse than we have now. I can think of plenty of better candidates, and that is without even going outside the state of WA.
Post by: ucwarden on May 28, 2014, 11:27:12 AM
The attached article is regarding then "Officer" Myers, who Chief Crown just put in as the new Captain of region 4 (the most populated region in the state).
Post by: Special T on May 28, 2014, 11:36:22 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on May 28, 2014, 11:41:40 AM
Post by: snowpack on May 28, 2014, 11:42:40 AM
That kinda says it all!:yeah: That they go for.....but large night time poaching operations involving a dozen people, quads, night vision, deer carcasses and they can't follow up on a week's worth of phone calls. :bash:
Post by: Bob33 on May 28, 2014, 11:44:50 AM
Hopefully you can open the attachment, but it shows a classic example of what this administration deems acceptable by an administrator.I'm missing the part where the "administration" deems this acceptable. This story is from 2009. Did the administration publicly defend this ticket? What is the officer's version of what happened?
The attached article is regarding then "Officer" Myers, who Chief Crown just put in as the new Captain of region 4 (the most populated region in the state).
Post by: Special T on May 28, 2014, 11:51:37 AM
Post by: Bob33 on May 28, 2014, 11:58:27 AM
The attached article is regarding then "Officer" Myers, who Chief Crown just put in as the new Captain of region 4 (the most populated region in the state).This is from five years ago. W haven't heard his version of the story. There's nothing to indicate he wasn't reprimanded.
You apparently believe this reporter's version of one incident from five years should derail a career permanently?
Post by: Special T on May 28, 2014, 12:00:58 PM
Post by: Bob33 on May 28, 2014, 12:03:00 PM
Post by: ucwarden on May 28, 2014, 12:16:15 PM
Hopefully you can open the attachment, but it shows a classic example of what this administration deems acceptable by an administrator.I'm missing the part where the "administration" deems this acceptable. This story is from 2009. Did the administration publicly defend this ticket? What is the officer's version of what happened?
The attached article is regarding then "Officer" Myers, who Chief Crown just put in as the new Captain of region 4 (the most populated region in the state).
This administration (Chief Crown) recently promoted this same officer to Captain of the largest region in the state!
Post by: ucwarden on May 28, 2014, 02:48:22 PM
If the best that can brought against current directors are five year old newspaper reports, then I would have concerns about the case's strength.
That was not the best (or even close), just something I found interesting in the material I gathered.
I guess I will wait until I have it all done, so I don't mislead people into thinking that is it.
I was just trying to give all of you a sense of the personnel, but failed to realize I would face criticism for distributing old material.
I will keep quiet until I am ready to release it all.
Post by: bigtex on May 28, 2014, 04:45:46 PM
After never supervising anybody!This administration (Chief Crown) recently promoted this same officer to Captain of the largest region in the state!Hopefully you can open the attachment, but it shows a classic example of what this administration deems acceptable by an administrator.I'm missing the part where the "administration" deems this acceptable. This story is from 2009. Did the administration publicly defend this ticket? What is the officer's version of what happened?
The attached article is regarding then "Officer" Myers, who Chief Crown just put in as the new Captain of region 4 (the most populated region in the state).
When Crown was Lt he worked to get a subordinate under him, so a Sgt's position was created. Myers took that Sgt position in Olympia working under Lt Crown. When Crown got Chief, he promoted Myers to his old Lt's job. 6 months later he gets promoted to the Region 4 Captain after never have worked as a "true" supervisor.
Post by: grundy53 on May 28, 2014, 06:43:43 PM
If the best that can brought against current directors are five year old newspaper reports, then I would have concerns about the case's strength.I don't care how old that story is. That officer is a horrible human being. Be should have been dismissed, not promoted!
sent from my typewriter
Post by: SkookumHntr on May 28, 2014, 07:03:52 PM
Kinda like the pos game warden goin through my boat because I told him my daughter and I kept 5 trout and only had 4 in the cooler, thinking were hiding 1 trout! I told him we must have only kept 4 if that's whats on the stringer! He asks me why did I say we kept 5, I say do you even know what the limit is?? We can keep 10! Harassing us like that on opening day! That's are good ol' wdfw for ya! WDFW :pee:
Post by: LongTatLaw on May 28, 2014, 07:37:22 PM
Post by: jackmaster on May 29, 2014, 07:00:50 AM
hey UC dont let the words of a couple on here keep you from enlightening the rest of us, its a good article and IT DOES point out the direction and the way the department has headed :tup: awesome article, that myer guy sounds like a real freeken winner, i bet he feels real proud of himself when he has to look at his sorry mug :bash: :bash: and then the p.o.s gets promoted to boot.....how the world works, i will never understand :dunno:If the best that can brought against current directors are five year old newspaper reports, then I would have concerns about the case's strength.
That was not the best (or even close), just something I found interesting in the material I gathered.
I guess I will wait until I have it all done, so I don't mislead people into thinking that is it.
I was just trying to give all of you a sense of the personnel, but failed to realize I would face criticism for distributing old material.
I will keep quiet until I am ready to release it all.
Post by: Daytonite on May 29, 2014, 07:17:17 AM
Post by: CoryTDF on May 31, 2014, 11:45:44 AM
Hopefully you can open the attachment, but it shows a classic example of what this administration deems acceptable by an administrator.
The attached article is regarding then "Officer" Myers, who Chief Crown just put in as the new Captain of region 4 (the most populated region in the state).
Old or not this is appalling! My cousin has Down syndrome and is 25 but on about a 2 grade level. I would loose my SH!T on a LEO if he did something like this to him.
Post by: JJD on June 02, 2014, 07:05:14 AM
Although I have grown weary of much of admins attitude in regard to several issues, I will withhold judgment till it's all laid out and both sides have had their say.
Cronyism is nothing new in gov bureaucracies, been going on since the founding of this nation. Idiots appoint those in kind and you know what flows downhill.
Even if they pull the plug on Anderson, our illustrious governor will just appoint another idiot just like himself. Next election, King and Pierce counties will likely reelect our current moron Governor and it will be more of the same. :bash:
Post by: Wacenturion on June 02, 2014, 09:16:39 AM
If I had have encountered that I would have personally put him in the truck and driven him to a license vendor, purchased his license and some gear for him, then taken him back and helped him leasrn how to fish for awhile.
Boy, did not need to read that with my morning coffee.
Post by: jackmaster on June 02, 2014, 10:18:40 AM
Seriously.....giving a kid with a broken fishing pole with a peice of jerky on the end of it a ticket. That is about the poorest and sickest excuse for a ticket I have probably ever heard of (and I worked Game enforcement many years ago).well thats the way it should be, but man there are some real tackle berrys out there that would ticket their own grandmother
If I had have encountered that I would have personally put him in the truck and driven him to a license vendor, purchased his license and some gear for him, then taken him back and helped him leasrn how to fish for awhile.
Boy, did not need to read that with my morning coffee.
Post by: JJD on June 02, 2014, 10:22:42 AM
Seriously.....giving a kid with a broken fishing pole with a peice of jerky on the end of it a ticket. That is about the poorest and sickest excuse for a ticket I have probably ever heard of (and I worked Game enforcement many years ago).
If I had have encountered that I would have personally put him in the truck and driven him to a license vendor, purchased his license and some gear for him, then taken him back and helped him leasrn how to fish for awhile.
Boy, did not need to read that with my morning coffee.
Sorta makes ya wonder which person in the scenario was the more "challenged".
Post by: Wacenturion on June 02, 2014, 10:48:08 AM
Seriously.....giving a kid with a broken fishing pole with a peice of jerky on the end of it a ticket. That is about the poorest and sickest excuse for a ticket I have probably ever heard of (and I worked Game enforcement many years ago).
If I had have encountered that I would have personally put him in the truck and driven him to a license vendor, purchased his license and some gear for him, then taken him back and helped him leasrn how to fish for awhile.
Boy, did not need to read that with my morning coffee.
Sorta makes ya wonder which person in the scenario was the more "challenged".
Exactly!
Post by: ucwarden on June 02, 2014, 02:09:43 PM
Seriously.....giving a kid with a broken fishing pole with a peice of jerky on the end of it a ticket. That is about the poorest and sickest excuse for a ticket I have probably ever heard of (and I worked Game enforcement many years ago).
If I had have encountered that I would have personally put him in the truck and driven him to a license vendor, purchased his license and some gear for him, then taken him back and helped him leasrn how to fish for awhile.
Boy, did not need to read that with my morning coffee.
Sorta makes ya wonder which person in the scenario was the more "challenged".
Exactly!
I found it pretty disturbing myself. I know it's old information, but the character of a person doesn't change that much over time.
A person who was an idiot 10 years ago is still likely to be an idiot today.
Post by: Happy2Hunt on June 05, 2014, 02:36:27 AM
Post by: kentrek on June 05, 2014, 04:48:32 AM
Just my :twocents:
Welcom to the site btw :tup:
Post by: SCRUBS on June 05, 2014, 05:42:53 AM
I guess it's time that I interject with a few facts that I'm almost certain that ucwarden will never bother to mention about the officer Myers that he is attempting to slander in his comments and others comments. I did some data mining myself and here are a few facts about this administrator that Crown promoted that ucwarden is referring too. He was awarded regional officer of the year in 2004 and Washington game warden assoc. regional officer of the year in 2008. He was awarded the meritorious service pin in 2013. He was a highly respected defensive tactics instructor for WDFW and taught officers through the state how to defend and protect themselves. He later achieved the status of Master Instructor for the entire program and implemented and managed the WDFW taser training program. While doing all of this Myers also managed to maintain his regular patrol and made hundreds of arrests and including complex investigations. When he transferred to Olympia he revamped and improved several training programs and policies as well as supervised and managed all new officers from the time they were hired until they were done with training. Myers also conducted and revamped the Fish and Wildlife Officer in house Academy as well as was the liaison with the police academy. Oh by the way Myers is a military veteran. Who served with honor in the US Navy as a Corpsman. he also served in the Army national guard as a tank officer. Just a few facts for you. But don't let that get in the way of your muck raking.
Hi officer Myers, welcome to the forum :hello:
BTW, thanks for your service :tup:
Post by: jackelope on June 05, 2014, 05:47:57 AM
LOL.
Post by: ucwarden on June 05, 2014, 06:17:48 AM
I guess it's time that I interject with a few facts that I'm almost certain that ucwarden will never bother to mention about the officer Myers that he is attempting to slander in his comments and others comments. I did some data mining myself and here are a few facts about this administrator that Crown promoted that ucwarden is referring too. He was awarded regional officer of the year in 2004 and Washington game warden assoc. regional officer of the year in 2008. He was awarded the meritorious service pin in 2013. He was a highly respected defensive tactics instructor for WDFW and taught officers through the state how to defend and protect themselves. He later achieved the status of Master Instructor for the entire program and implemented and managed the WDFW taser training program. While doing all of this Myers also managed to maintain his regular patrol and made hundreds of arrests and including complex investigations. When he transferred to Olympia he revamped and improved several training programs and policies as well as supervised and managed all new officers from the time they were hired until they were done with training. Myers also conducted and revamped the Fish and Wildlife Officer in house Academy as well as was the liaison with the police academy. Oh by the way Myers is a military veteran. Who served with honor in the US Navy as a Corpsman. he also served in the Army national guard as a tank officer. Just a few facts for you. But don't let that get in the way of your muck raking.
While you are "data mining" look up "slander" in the dictionary. Slander- "a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report: a slander against his good name." I cut and pasted a newspaper article onto this forum.........hardly the slander you claim.
I can't wait to hear what you and your friends in headquarters have to say when the entire story comes out.
By they way, if you have something to say to me, feel free to call....I am sure you can "data mine" my phone number.
Post by: Curly on June 05, 2014, 07:53:32 AM
That's not Officer Myers. Just a heads up.
LOL.
Probably Myers' mom. That is nice that she would get on here and defend her son.
:)
Post by: ucwarden on June 05, 2014, 09:23:11 AM
That's not Officer Myers. Just a heads up.
LOL.
Probably Myers' mom. That is nice that she would get on here and defend her son.
:)
Whoever he or she is, they must work for the CIA to be able to "data mine" all that information about one person.....impressive.
I also love that the writer said Myers fixed the training and hiring issues, which implies that Crown (who held that position before Myers took it), must have left it a total mess, but Myers came in and fixed it all?
Post by: Tbar on June 05, 2014, 09:48:06 AM
Post by: ucwarden on June 05, 2014, 09:57:15 AM
Data mining? Hmmmm I've used this for sorting through several thousands of accounts to find a targeted demographic and and get rid of pork. I would have just inquired with his supervisor and probably received much of that same info. Someone must have access to some pretty expensive software and time. Interesting....
I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that Happy2Hunt didn't have to do any "data mining", but rather is a very close friend or family member of Captain Myers and isn't honest enough to just say so.
I have done more than my fair share of background searching, and have never been able to come up with that detail....especially the military information (the military isn't real open with their records).
I respect the fact that Happy2Hunt is showing support for someone he or she cares about, but let's be honest when doing so.
That message was fairly insulting to the intelligence of all of us.
Post by: trophyhunt on June 05, 2014, 10:24:15 AM
Post by: ucwarden on June 05, 2014, 10:50:13 AM
Ucwarden, when you release the big bomb, will you please let us know by "updating" the title of your thread? Thanks again for all your doing!!
Absolutely, but I am sure that Happy2Hunt will data mine it out before I even release it.
Post by: trophyhunt on June 05, 2014, 10:56:40 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: idahohuntr on June 05, 2014, 12:42:21 PM
I guess it's time that I interject with a few facts that I'm almost certain that ucwarden will never bother to mention about the officer Myers that he is attempting to slander in his comments and others comments. I did some data mining myself and here are a few facts about this administrator that Crown promoted that ucwarden is referring too. He was awarded regional officer of the year in 2004 and Washington game warden assoc. regional officer of the year in 2008. He was awarded the meritorious service pin in 2013. He was a highly respected defensive tactics instructor for WDFW and taught officers through the state how to defend and protect themselves. He later achieved the status of Master Instructor for the entire program and implemented and managed the WDFW taser training program. While doing all of this Myers also managed to maintain his regular patrol and made hundreds of arrests and including complex investigations. When he transferred to Olympia he revamped and improved several training programs and policies as well as supervised and managed all new officers from the time they were hired until they were done with training. Myers also conducted and revamped the Fish and Wildlife Officer in house Academy as well as was the liaison with the police academy. Oh by the way Myers is a military veteran. Who served with honor in the US Navy as a Corpsman. he also served in the Army national guard as a tank officer. Just a few facts for you. But don't let that get in the way of your muck raking.I did not sign UC's petition and do not support removing Director Anderson...but I do agree there are some problems with Enforcement. All of what you describe about Meyers is absolutely meaningless.
I could care less how many merit badges, pins, and pat on the backs he got from enforcement admin. Taser/Defense training bla bla bla...WHAT DID HE DO FOR SPORTSMEN???? He made lots of arrests?? How many other disabled and handicapped citizens did he target to show good numbers?
I've kind of been waiting for some explanation from somebody like you who knows this officer to provide reasoned justification for this officers behavior...and given that all you can muster is some merit badges and proficiency in using a taser I definitely think the article UC posted is probably a fair representation of what actually happened. Meyers is a disgrace and should be fired. :twocents:
Post by: Special T on June 05, 2014, 12:53:01 PM
And if that is just the tip of the iceburg some one is infor a really cold dip in the deep end of the pool!
Post by: Curly on June 05, 2014, 01:04:40 PM
I guess it's time that I interject with a few facts that I'm almost certain that ucwarden will never bother to mention about the officer Myers that he is attempting to slander in his comments and others comments. I did some data mining myself and here are a few facts about this administrator that Crown promoted that ucwarden is referring too. He was awarded regional officer of the year in 2004 and Washington game warden assoc. regional officer of the year in 2008. He was awarded the meritorious service pin in 2013. He was a highly respected defensive tactics instructor for WDFW and taught officers through the state how to defend and protect themselves. He later achieved the status of Master Instructor for the entire program and implemented and managed the WDFW taser training program. While doing all of this Myers also managed to maintain his regular patrol and made hundreds of arrests and including complex investigations. When he transferred to Olympia he revamped and improved several training programs and policies as well as supervised and managed all new officers from the time they were hired until they were done with training. Myers also conducted and revamped the Fish and Wildlife Officer in house Academy as well as was the liaison with the police academy. Oh by the way Myers is a military veteran. Who served with honor in the US Navy as a Corpsman. he also served in the Army national guard as a tank officer. Just a few facts for you. But don't let that get in the way of your muck raking.I did not sign UC's petition and do not support removing Director Anderson...but I do agree there are some problems with Enforcement. All of what you describe about Meyers is absolutely meaningless.
I could care less how many merit badges, pins, and pat on the backs he got from enforcement admin. Taser/Defense training bla bla bla...WHAT DID HE DO FOR SPORTSMEN???? He made lots of arrests?? How many other disabled and handicapped citizens did he target to show good numbers?
I've kind of been waiting for some explanation from somebody like you who knows this officer to provide reasoned justification for this officers behavior...and given that all you can muster is some merit badges and proficiency in using a taser I definitely think the article UC posted is probably a fair representation of what actually happened. Meyers is a disgrace and should be fired. :twocents:
Good post, IDhuntr. :tup:
(won't you feel bad if you make his mom cry when she reads your post)
Post by: Happy2Hunt on June 05, 2014, 01:07:11 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on June 05, 2014, 01:09:45 PM
No. she should have raised a better son...I feel bad for the mother of the disabled boy who was ticketed though.I guess it's time that I interject with a few facts that I'm almost certain that ucwarden will never bother to mention about the officer Myers that he is attempting to slander in his comments and others comments. I did some data mining myself and here are a few facts about this administrator that Crown promoted that ucwarden is referring too. He was awarded regional officer of the year in 2004 and Washington game warden assoc. regional officer of the year in 2008. He was awarded the meritorious service pin in 2013. He was a highly respected defensive tactics instructor for WDFW and taught officers through the state how to defend and protect themselves. He later achieved the status of Master Instructor for the entire program and implemented and managed the WDFW taser training program. While doing all of this Myers also managed to maintain his regular patrol and made hundreds of arrests and including complex investigations. When he transferred to Olympia he revamped and improved several training programs and policies as well as supervised and managed all new officers from the time they were hired until they were done with training. Myers also conducted and revamped the Fish and Wildlife Officer in house Academy as well as was the liaison with the police academy. Oh by the way Myers is a military veteran. Who served with honor in the US Navy as a Corpsman. he also served in the Army national guard as a tank officer. Just a few facts for you. But don't let that get in the way of your muck raking.I did not sign UC's petition and do not support removing Director Anderson...but I do agree there are some problems with Enforcement. All of what you describe about Meyers is absolutely meaningless.
I could care less how many merit badges, pins, and pat on the backs he got from enforcement admin. Taser/Defense training bla bla bla...WHAT DID HE DO FOR SPORTSMEN???? He made lots of arrests?? How many other disabled and handicapped citizens did he target to show good numbers?
I've kind of been waiting for some explanation from somebody like you who knows this officer to provide reasoned justification for this officers behavior...and given that all you can muster is some merit badges and proficiency in using a taser I definitely think the article UC posted is probably a fair representation of what actually happened. Meyers is a disgrace and should be fired. :twocents:
Good post, IDhuntr. :tup:
(won't you feel bad if you make his mom cry when she reads your post)
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Post by: trophyhunt on June 05, 2014, 03:04:48 PM
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Post by: ucwarden on June 05, 2014, 03:23:56 PM
Wow notice how ucwarden lashes out and attacks the messenger when he is presented with facts that don't fit his sad little narrative? This is often the tactics taken by the weak and small minded. Please hurry and drop this " bomb" that you elude to. I have a feeling it will be much like what I know about your life and career....a dud. But hopefully it will be useable in the lawsuit to provide another example of how you are attempting to defame someone. See and the more that the forum cronies pile on the easier it is to prove damages to reputation. Hey ucwarden, please tell us why you decided to target Myers. Your attacks seem personal. He's not the chief or deputy chief or director? What's your reason for these unprovoked attacks against a decorated military veteran who served his state and country with honor? Do you hate yourself as much as you appear to hate others? Are you angry because of your own long list of shortcomings and failures and are just projecting them on to others? Your reply should be fascinating.
Happy2Hunt:
Thanks for that response, it brought a smile to my face.
First of all, I want to again offer that if you would like to talk person to person, send me an email or call. This forum is not really best suited for two people talking back and forth.
Next I am a bit confused by how you perceive that "ucwarden lashes out and attacks the messenger", as I only pointed out the fact that it certainly appeared that you were misrepresenting how you knew all this information about Captain Myers, when you said you did some "mining" for information, when I suspect (I don't know for sure) that you are either Captain Myers or a relative (wife?). I can't see how that is lashing out or attacking "the messenger".
Also, while you are reminding us to not attack the messenger, remember that all I did was post a clip from a newspaper....I didn't write the article, I was just the messenger. Maybe you should sue the reporter who wrote the article (his name is on the article).
I assume your last response (above) was largely driven by emotion, as you certainly attacked me, but I would rather stick to facts.
If you were attempting to bait me, with your threat of a lawsuit and personal attacks, that bait was about as effective as beef jerky would be for fishing.
Sorry if this response disappoints you, but I am not quite the anger filled person you portray me to be. I just want to see justice, and morality applied, and want the best for the fine officers of WDFW and the resources.
Post by: Special T on June 05, 2014, 03:27:56 PM
Post by: Curly on June 05, 2014, 03:49:09 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on June 05, 2014, 03:55:43 PM
Post by: ucwarden on June 05, 2014, 04:05:37 PM
I am guessing that was not the response Happy2Hunt was expecting, it was pretty close to the response I would expect from UC. Nice job of not slinging any mud UC. :tup: It made my day to see you stand tall and not lower yourself, great request for a personal conversation also, way to take the high road. :tup:
Thanks. While there will certainly be some hurt feeling and anger aimed my way soon, it is not my intention to smear anyone. I intend to address on-duty issues only; what we as license purchasers expect of WDFW employees. I have lot's of personal feelings about some of the WDFW administrators, but try my best to stay focused on their work failures and/or wrong-doing, rather than attacking them personally.
Assuming that Happy2Hunt is Myers' wife (and I really don't know) then I fully understand defending her man, but it's kind of hard to criticize someone when you make nasty comments and threats about them.
Post by: grundy53 on June 05, 2014, 04:16:14 PM
Wow notice how ucwarden lashes out and attacks the messenger when he is presented with facts that don't fit his sad little narrative? This is often the tactics taken by the weak and small minded. Please hurry and drop this " bomb" that you elude to. I have a feeling it will be much like what I know about your life and career....a dud. But hopefully it will be useable in the lawsuit to provide another example of how you are attempting to defame someone. See and the more that the forum cronies pile on the easier it is to prove damages to reputation. Hey ucwarden, please tell us why you decided to target Myers. Your attacks seem personal. He's not the chief or deputy chief or director? What's your reason for these unprovoked attacks against a decorated military veteran who served his state and country with honor? Do you hate yourself as much as you appear to hate others? Are you angry because of your own long list of shortcomings and failures and are just projecting them on to others? Your reply should be fascinating.Nice try. But trust me, you are really making YOURSELF look bad. Not UCwarden. You just lost what little credibility you had with this post.
sent from my typewriter
Post by: Gringo31 on June 05, 2014, 04:18:23 PM
Seems like a defense expert would be better at defending himself.
On two sides of this coin, we apparently have two sides of people in the know. One who see's the problem, is looking for solutions and willing to put effort into improvement......while the other side writes tickets to retarded kids, can't see that the issue was writing tickets to retarded kids and now feels it must be personal, gets promoted because he is good at training people how to use a taser and plans to sue UC for posting a news article that showed good people helping a kid out who was dealt a crappy hand by Myers. :dunno:
:chuckle:
Post by: baker5150 on June 05, 2014, 04:22:20 PM
Wow notice how ucwarden lashes out and attacks the messenger when he is presented with facts that don't fit his sad little narrative? This is often the tactics taken by the weak and small minded. Please hurry and drop this " bomb" that you elude to. I have a feeling it will be much like what I know about your life and career....a dud. But hopefully it will be useable in the lawsuit to provide another example of how you are attempting to defame someone. See and the more that the forum cronies pile on the easier it is to prove damages to reputation. Hey ucwarden, please tell us why you decided to target Myers. Your attacks seem personal. He's not the chief or deputy chief or director? What's your reason for these unprovoked attacks against a decorated military veteran who served his state and country with honor? Do you hate yourself as much as you appear to hate others? Are you angry because of your own long list of shortcomings and failures and are just projecting them on to others? Your reply should be fascinating.Nice try. But trust me, you are really making YOURSELF look bad. Not UCwarden. You just lost what little credibility you had with this post.
sent from my typewriter
[/quote
:yeah:
I agree, Stating facts about Myers service acheivments is all good and well ( and should be stated, because it is relevant)
but attacking uc for attacking, when he wasn't attacking? :dunno:
Not to also be attacking :chuckle:
attacking
Post by: idahohuntr on June 05, 2014, 04:33:53 PM
Rather than attack UC perhaps you could provide us the scenario and circumstances in which it is appropriate to ticket a mentally handicapped or disabled member of society for not having proper licenses for fishing?
If you came on here and said Myers had no choice, there is no officer discretion allowed in these situations bla bla bla...maybe there would be a fraction of doubt that this Myers isn't a complete POS. :dunno:
But to come on here, attack UC, and cite some awards and taser training to support Myers as being a stand up guy is really quite laughable...except we are talking about some pretty disgusting behavior by Myers. When you said Myers served this state with "honor" it made me want to puke.
Oh, and I really wish you well with your little lawsuit threat :chuckle: If you decide to pursue legal action for slander/defamation etc. against UC (or the author of the article) it sounds to me like not only will you end up remaining pathetic, you will also find yourself broke. :tup:
Post by: bigtex on June 05, 2014, 04:54:41 PM
I have a feeling it will be much like what I know about your life and career....a dud.Anybody that knows Vandivert knows his career was not "a dud." I've said it before, when Todd was awarded WDFW Officer of the year when he was still on patrol he not only made several hundred cases in one year but didn't receive a single complaint, and even had some violators send a letter in saying how fairly they were treated. As a law enforcement officer myself I know that you may be the most courteous person alive, but if you give someone a ticket they may just file a complaint even if it had no backing. The fact that Todd made that many cases and somehow didn't get a single complaint tells you how good of an officer he is, but also how respectable of a person he is.
Todd is known not only for his excellence in natural resource law enforcement, but law enforcement in general. It would be interesting to see how many current/former WDFW Officers (field officers, not Captains or HQ staff) would call Todd's career "a dud."
Post by: Tbar on June 05, 2014, 05:16:18 PM
I know many Leos and several that have had first hand dealings with ucwarden. All seem to have one common perception, respect, period. A great measure is how you are judged by your peers. I can also say that they all haven't been friends or even liked him but all respected him.
Happy2hunt I have no dog in this fight but am seriously appalled by the article when the handicapped person was cited, so please defend this single action (please don't downplay it as isolated or put a statute of limitations on it). I have seen single actions end careers on several occasions and this would definitely be justified (imho).
Post by: SCRUBS on June 05, 2014, 05:17:05 PM
I am finding this amusing. :tup:
:yeah: :yeah: :chuckle:
Post by: SCRUBS on June 05, 2014, 05:18:26 PM
That's not Officer Myers. Just a heads up.
LOL.
So it`s your gimmick account :dunno: :chuckle:
Post by: Tbar on June 05, 2014, 05:29:45 PM
Post by: snowpack on June 05, 2014, 05:36:00 PM
Post by: Curly on June 05, 2014, 05:49:10 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on June 05, 2014, 06:33:45 PM
I didn't regard the newspaper article posted as something to highlight Meyers, but as something pointed out regarding what WDFW high command considers acceptable. If the supervisors had stepped in, possibly it could've been resolved before heading to court. But instead the WDFW gives the perception that it seems approves of that kind of citation, AND even rewards an officer for it. Meanwhile, we have serious wildlife offenders operating across the state that they don't seem to want to make an effort to investigate. Other examples are rubbing cotton balls over pinched barbs, citing a dad for helping a young child land a fish, etc. :dunno:
Does that really happen?
Post by: Cascade on June 05, 2014, 06:45:56 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: billythekidrock on June 05, 2014, 07:04:40 PM
I am guessing that was not the response Happy2Hunt was expecting, it was pretty close to the response I would expect from UC. Nice job of not slinging any mud UC. :tup: It made my day to see you stand tall and not lower yourself, great request for a personal conversation also, way to take the high road. :tup:
Thanks. While there will certainly be some hurt feeling and anger aimed my way soon, it is not my intention to smear anyone. I intend to address on-duty issues only; what we as license purchasers expect of WDFW employees. I have lot's of personal feelings about some of the WDFW administrators, but try my best to stay focused on their work failures and/or wrong-doing, rather than attacking them personally.
Assuming that Happy2Hunt is Myers' wife (and I really don't know) then I fully understand defending her man, but it's kind of hard to criticize someone when you make nasty comments and threats about them.
If this is the case then I understand as well, but it would have been nice to have the information without the "data mining" bs.
Post by: ucwarden on June 05, 2014, 07:51:09 PM
I have a feeling it will be much like what I know about your life and career....a dud.Anybody that knows Vandivert knows his career was not "a dud." I've said it before, when Todd was awarded WDFW Officer of the year when he was still on patrol he not only made several hundred cases in one year but didn't receive a single complaint, and even had some violators send a letter in saying how fairly they were treated. As a law enforcement officer myself I know that you may be the most courteous person alive, but if you give someone a ticket they may just file a complaint even if it had no backing. The fact that Todd made that many cases and somehow didn't get a single complaint tells you how good of an officer he is, but also how respectable of a person he is.
Todd is known not only for his excellence in natural resource law enforcement, but law enforcement in general. It would be interesting to see how many current/former WDFW Officers (field officers, not Captains or HQ staff) would call Todd's career "a dud."
Thanks Bigtex. People are going to think we are related......dad
Post by: ucwarden on June 05, 2014, 07:56:34 PM
Well said bigtex.
I know many Leos and several that have had first hand dealings with ucwarden. All seem to have one common perception, respect, period. A great measure is how you are judged by your peers. I can also say that they all haven't been friends or even liked him but all respected him.
Happy2hunt I have no dog in this fight but am seriously appalled by the article when the handicapped person was cited, so please defend this single action (please don't downplay it as isolated or put a statute of limitations on it). I have seen single actions end careers on several occasions and this would definitely be justified (imho).
And thanks to you too Tbar. I do appreciate that most of my former peers respect the work I have done, and the person I strive to be, and am not a all surprised that some (or even many) don't care too much for me. I tend to be pretty vocal and "brutally honest", which isn't always well accepted.
It really is nice to have support like this on this forum, and I do appreciate everyone's perspectives.
Post by: wadu1 on June 05, 2014, 09:42:33 PM
I have been hunting in Washington since 1966 and I’m appalled to what the State government has done for us sportsman/women. In 1987 - Legislature changed Department of Game, with a Commission-appointed director, to Department of Wildlife with a Director appointed by the Governor Gardner Booth. Since this change I’ve seen a drastic decline in the number of hunters and game I assume due to the cost of tags and poaching. I dug out some regulations from the early 70’s, granted the administrative costs have gone up over the years back then I could get a license with tags for deer, elk, bear and cougar for under $30 dollars.
I’m hoping that UCWARDEN's petition works and they will look at changing WDFW back to a self-regulated entity and not some political appointment. Before 1987 all funds collected by the Department of Game and Fisheries went into their coffers to expand, control and enhance hunting and fishing within Washington. With the 1987 change all the funds go into the general funds and doled out to the rest of the State.
As hunters we pay an extra eleven present on purchases of firearms and ammunition through the Pittman-Robertson Act to protect search, surveys, management of wildlife and/or habitat. Legal hunters and fishers buy licenses and these funds are used to manage the fish and wildlife resources of Washington in a responsible and perpetual manner along with the Federal funds generated by the Pittman-Robertson Act. I feel this funding is being squandered by the Politian’s to enhance the reintroduction of wolves (a non-native species) and other agendas.
I have personally known badge holder #1 (WDFW) for Washington and before his passing we talked about this and we were both in agreement, we need change a big change.
Post by: bigtex on June 05, 2014, 10:30:03 PM
In 1987 - Legislature changed Department of Game, with a Commission-appointed director, to Department of Wildlife with a Director appointed by the Governor Gardner Booth. Since this change I’ve seen a drastic decline in the number of hunters and game I assume due to the cost of tags and poaching. I dug out some regulations from the early 70’s, granted the administrative costs have gone up over the years back then I could get a license with tags for deer, elk, bear and cougar for under $30 dollars.Just some facts here. The fish and wildlife commission does in fact appoint the WDFW Director. The Fish and Wildlife Commission is appointed by the governor.
Before 1987 all funds collected by the Department of Game and Fisheries went into their coffers to expand, control and enhance hunting and fishing within Washington. With the 1987 change all the funds go into the general funds and doled out to the rest of the State.
On the license/fee standpoint the old Dept of Fisheries was largely supported by tax dollars and as a result fishery fees went into the General fund. The old Dept of Wildlife was largely supported by license fees and they went into the wildlife fund. Since the merger of Fisheries and Wildlfie in 1994 the legislature has slowly moved fishing license allocation from the general fund to the wildlife fund. As of about 4 years ago ALL fish and wildlife related fees, licenses, etc go into the wildlife fund solely for WDFW. There is no more fishing license money being spent on some random agency.
Post by: ballpark on June 06, 2014, 12:18:01 PM
Post by: jackmaster on June 06, 2014, 12:23:58 PM
great post BIGTEX, i dont know UCWARDEN from adam, but i learned all i needed to learn just by reading his book, and then hearing stuff like you posted really shores it up....i think HAAPPY2HUNT might just be closely related to mr meyers or what ever, does not matter really, what really sucks is UCWARDEN not doing his best to end up being in charge of wdfw.... could you imagine UCWARDEN incharge of the department, things would definatly be looking up for washingtons fish and wildlife as well as the sportsman and it would mean doom for the wildlife trafficers and poachers.....yeah it sure would be nice :tup:I have a feeling it will be much like what I know about your life and career....a dud.Anybody that knows Vandivert knows his career was not "a dud." I've said it before, when Todd was awarded WDFW Officer of the year when he was still on patrol he not only made several hundred cases in one year but didn't receive a single complaint, and even had some violators send a letter in saying how fairly they were treated. As a law enforcement officer myself I know that you may be the most courteous person alive, but if you give someone a ticket they may just file a complaint even if it had no backing. The fact that Todd made that many cases and somehow didn't get a single complaint tells you how good of an officer he is, but also how respectable of a person he is.
Todd is known not only for his excellence in natural resource law enforcement, but law enforcement in general. It would be interesting to see how many current/former WDFW Officers (field officers, not Captains or HQ staff) would call Todd's career "a dud."
Post by: ucwarden on June 06, 2014, 03:08:45 PM
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but trust me when I say I have absolutely no chance of ever being employed by WDFW ever again, which is just fine with me. I have found I can accomplish way more from the outside, as I am no longer constrained by the chain-of-command.
Post by: Special T on June 06, 2014, 03:25:49 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on June 06, 2014, 03:29:20 PM
It requires a special person That can air the laundry and still be respected by those "on the inside" It can be a very dangerouse thing to be a whistleblower. It is not very often that you find some one with a stellar record That is willing to put up a fight after they are no longer obligated to... AND is still trusted enough to get information from former collegues to try and fix things. :twocents:1000% agree!!!
Post by: ucwarden on June 06, 2014, 03:44:31 PM
It requires a special person That can air the laundry and still be respected by those "on the inside" It can be a very dangerouse thing to be a whistleblower. It is not very often that you find some one with a stellar record That is willing to put up a fight after they are no longer obligated to... AND is still trusted enough to get information from former collegues to try and fix things. :twocents:
I want everyone to remember that I am retired. I have nothing to lose by blowing the whistle. But, I have been greatly assisted by about a dozen present WDFW employees, and they are hanging out a country mile to try to make things better for themselves and for all sportsmen.
They are the hero's. I'm just a mouthpiece (and a dud of a ex-game warden).
Post by: Rainier10 on June 06, 2014, 04:01:55 PM
Good job giving props to the guys and gals that are helping from the inside, you are correct they are really hanging it out there.
Post by: 6x6in6 on June 06, 2014, 04:29:34 PM
Post by: Special T on June 06, 2014, 07:33:46 PM
It requires a special person That can air the laundry and still be respected by those "on the inside" It can be a very dangerouse thing to be a whistleblower. It is not very often that you find some one with a stellar record That is willing to put up a fight after they are no longer obligated to... AND is still trusted enough to get information from former collegues to try and fix things. :twocents:
I want everyone to remember that I am retired. I have nothing to lose by blowing the whistle. But, I have been greatly assisted by about a dozen present WDFW employees, and they are hanging out a country mile to try to make things better for themselves and for all sportsmen.
They are the hero's. I'm just a mouthpiece (and a dud of a ex-game warden).
Its because YOU are the kind of person that is RARE, that those people are hanging their ass out a mile. THEY know you will not divulge information that will hurt them and have the unique knowledge and ability to say what needs to be said. When people who don't even work for the WDFW (but are in the business) know the quality of your character and come to your defense its easy to see your the right guy.
Post by: Wacenturion on June 06, 2014, 11:51:02 PM
I have a feeling it will be much like what I know about your life and career....a dud.Anybody that knows Vandivert knows his career was not "a dud." I've said it before, when Todd was awarded WDFW Officer of the year when he was still on patrol he not only made several hundred cases in one year but didn't receive a single complaint, and even had some violators send a letter in saying how fairly they were treated. As a law enforcement officer myself I know that you may be the most courteous person alive, but if you give someone a ticket they may just file a complaint even if it had no backing. The fact that Todd made that many cases and somehow didn't get a single complaint tells you how good of an officer he is, but also how respectable of a person he is.
Todd is known not only for his excellence in natural resource law enforcement, but law enforcement in general. It would be interesting to see how many current/former WDFW Officers (field officers, not Captains or HQ staff) would call Todd's career "a dud."
I would second the above. Not only was Todd an example of what an enforcement agent should be, but he was also a team player interacting with other programs in the field. Those actions not only showed support for efforts that tried to expand opportunity for hunters and fishermen, but by doing so, it greatly assisted in making a smooth implementation of those efforts. I can't say the same for some of his counterparts.
His actions and his career being termed a "dud" is certainly a misnomer and are simply the results of wishful thinking in the minds of those who disagreed with him. By the way, WDFW awards are nice and occasionally go to the folks that rightfully deserve them. However the majority of those awards go to those that tow the line and don't rock the boat. Enough said............
Post by: jackmaster on June 07, 2014, 08:44:22 AM
another awesome post, where did ya go happyfeet :chuckle: well said wacenturianI have a feeling it will be much like what I know about your life and career....a dud.Anybody that knows Vandivert knows his career was not "a dud." I've said it before, when Todd was awarded WDFW Officer of the year when he was still on patrol he not only made several hundred cases in one year but didn't receive a single complaint, and even had some violators send a letter in saying how fairly they were treated. As a law enforcement officer myself I know that you may be the most courteous person alive, but if you give someone a ticket they may just file a complaint even if it had no backing. The fact that Todd made that many cases and somehow didn't get a single complaint tells you how good of an officer he is, but also how respectable of a person he is.
Todd is known not only for his excellence in natural resource law enforcement, but law enforcement in general. It would be interesting to see how many current/former WDFW Officers (field officers, not Captains or HQ staff) would call Todd's career "a dud."
I would second the above. Not only was Todd an example of what an enforcement agent should be, but he was also a team player interacting with other programs in the field. Those actions not only showed support for efforts that tried to expand opportunity for hunters and fishermen, but by doing so, it greatly assisted in making a smooth implementation of those efforts. I can't say the same for some of his counterparts.
His actions and his career being termed a "dud" is certainly a misnomer and are simply the results of wishful thinking in the minds of those who disagreed with him. By the way, WDFW awards are nice and occasionally go to the folks that rightfully deserve them. However the majority of those awards go to those that tow the line and don't rock the boat. Enough said............
Post by: bigtex on June 07, 2014, 09:08:40 AM
Now to his defense (and this is the only time I will be defending him) being an officer in a small/rural community is a lot different then in a large city. Most officers who have spent there life working in a city area and are instantly thrushed into a small/rural area do have issues because they are used to that high speed, in your face, rough mentality which many times doesn't fly in the smaller areas. Some officers can adapt to that and essentially have their big city mentality, and a rural mentality. So maybe the reason he had issues in Pend Orielle and Asotin Counties is because he was acting like an officer in say King County would act. I once heard a King County Sheriff's Office recruiter tell people "I could send a King County Sheriff's Deputy to Asotin County and their tactics would get them killed, I could also bring an Asotin County Deputy to King County and their tactics would get them killed." While LEOs all do the same thing, your environment truely influences your work mentality. I've worked big city and I've worked rurual, sometimes the big city mentality works in the rural areas, but many times it doesn't.
Post by: t6 on June 07, 2014, 06:54:20 PM
T
Post by: Special T on June 08, 2014, 09:17:44 AM
Post by: ucwarden on June 14, 2014, 04:27:39 PM
Unfortunately, I am not ready to make the letter public, but the details should come out, by media, soon. I want to give the legislators a chance to digest it and hopefully start investigating the allegations. I also don't want to steal any of the thunder from the media.
But the battle has begun.
Thanks to all of you for your support. I sincerely hope this will make things better for the WDFW officers, the resources and all of the hunters/fishermen in WA.
Post by: Curly on June 14, 2014, 05:00:39 PM
Post by: Tbar on June 14, 2014, 05:31:39 PM
Thank you for trying to make things better. I hope it works.:yeah: any update on Jones?
Post by: KFhunter on June 14, 2014, 05:38:28 PM
Post by: sakoshooter on June 14, 2014, 09:31:32 PM
FYI, I dropped the first bomb (a couple more to come) on Thursday when I sent a 10-page letter to several legislators, the WDFW Commission and the Governor. The letter detailed dozens of "issues" with WDFW's enforcement program.
Unfortunately, I am not ready to make the letter public, but the details should come out, by media, soon. I want to give the legislators a chance to digest it and hopefully start investigating the allegations. I also don't want to steal any of the thunder from the media.
But the battle has begun.
Thanks to all of you for your support. I sincerely hope this will make things better for the WDFW officers, the resources and all of the hunters/fishermen in WA.
I'm anxious to hear about the outcome. Thanx UC and your assistants.
Post by: Skyhigh on June 15, 2014, 07:04:13 AM
Thank you for trying to make things better. I hope it works.:yeah: any update on Jones?
his Sgt. Phillips got got his stipes back for being "unable" to supervise employeees, but had to retire.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on June 15, 2014, 07:29:13 AM
Unfortunately, I am not ready to make the letter public, but the details should come out, by media, soon.
Why tease us? Isn't it now a fully public document?
Post by: ucwarden on June 15, 2014, 07:37:28 AM
Unfortunately, I am not ready to make the letter public, but the details should come out, by media, soon.
Why tease us? Isn't it now a fully public document?
It is somewhat public at this point, but I am following the advice of some very smart people, in the way this is being released.
Post by: ucwarden on June 20, 2014, 03:42:55 PM
First; Yes Sgt. Phillips got his stripes back, but he has decided to throw in the towel and retire at the end of July.
Officer Jones is still unemployed, and waiting on his appeal of his termination (hopefully he will be back on-duty soon).
As I mentioned, I sent a letter to 40+ key legislators, the WDFW Commissioners and the governor. I have heard back from 3 legislators, and nobody else. I will give it another week or two, then take the next step.
Sorry that I can't let you all know what comes next, but since we all know that the very people I am trying to remove, are reading this (an also apparently posting), I have to keep it close to the vest.
I have been asked why I have not made my 10-page letter public, and the answer is easy. I am not trying to embarrass anyone or grind them into the ground, but rather to make some much needed personnel changes. If I take everything public, then we get into a @#$ slinging war, and that's not what I want.
Thanks again for your support and for your patience. I sincerely hope this all result in changes which we all feel are for the better.
Post by: stevemiller on June 20, 2014, 03:46:50 PM
Post by: Curly on June 20, 2014, 03:49:16 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on June 20, 2014, 03:49:40 PM
Post by: Special T on June 23, 2014, 08:56:37 PM
Post by: ucwarden on June 24, 2014, 08:01:27 AM
There has been a bunch of talk about your book and these moves at the archery club... The consensus is that your smarter and more political savy than those your going after. Keep up the good work! :tup:
I guess we will see, right?
Thanks
Post by: jackmaster on June 25, 2014, 07:04:12 AM
:tup: if cenci is on here and reading this, Your a d bag man! You need to do the animals in our state a big favor and get the hell out of wa!:yeah: :yeah: people like you should not be in a position of power, its a shame where you values lay, pretty sad indeed..... if you think your just one man and what can you do? which i doubt.. but just think if wdfw was full of guys and gals like todd and (jennifer) :dunno: things would be alot better for OUR fish and wildlife and ther WOULD BE less wildlife poachers and pedalers on the streets today.... thanks to guys like you, the poachers and traffickers are looking at wdfw and you like its a friggin joke!!!!!! :tup: :tup: way to go though, give yourself another award!!! sorry uc warden, you can delete this if you want, but guys like cenci just irritate me... thanks again for everything your doing :tup: :tup:
Post by: ghosthunter on June 25, 2014, 07:39:57 AM
Glad he got his stripe back.
Post by: ucwarden on June 25, 2014, 08:04:31 AM
:tup: if cenci is on here and reading this, Your a d bag man! You need to do the animals in our state a big favor and get the hell out of wa!:yeah: :yeah: people like you should not be in a position of power, its a shame where you values lay, pretty sad indeed..... if you think your just one man and what can you do? which i doubt.. but just think if wdfw was full of guys and gals like todd and (jennifer) :dunno: things would be alot better for OUR fish and wildlife and ther WOULD BE less wildlife poachers and pedalers on the streets today.... thanks to guys like you, the poachers and traffickers are looking at wdfw and you like its a friggin joke!!!!!! :tup: :tup: way to go though, give yourself another award!!! sorry uc warden, you can delete this if you want, but guys like cenci just irritate me... thanks again for everything your doing :tup: :tup:
Thanks. I am not pulling anything down of here.
Post by: ucwarden on June 25, 2014, 08:05:51 AM
Phillips was planing to retire in July any ways. At least that's what he told several friends and I in Feb.
Glad he got his stripe back.
He is retiring effective in July
Post by: bigtex on June 30, 2014, 09:52:29 PM
How do you feel about Paul Golden being promoted from SIU Detective to now the Lieutenant in charge of SIU?
Post by: ucwarden on July 01, 2014, 06:22:54 AM
UC,Very pleased with that promotion. Paul was the only logical choice for SIU Lt. He is smart, ethical, and hard-working.
How do you feel about Paul Golden being promoted from SIU Detective to now the Lieutenant in charge of SIU?
Post by: bbarnes on July 02, 2014, 03:49:11 PM
Post by: ucwarden on July 03, 2014, 06:44:46 AM
I was forwarded your letter to the Governor I'm wondering why it's not posted up.I was going to post but for fear that it might screw your case up I thought I would ask first.
The decision for me not to release the 10-page letter was mine, but was based on advice of an attorney. An attorney friend of mine told me to keep my communications, regarding my allegations, between myself and the law makers only (WDFW Commission, the Governor, and key legislators). The concern is two-fold; it might be easier for those who I accuse of improper conduct to accuse me of just wanting to smear them if I went public with it, and it also might appear, to the law makers, as if I am out for revenge rather than doing the right thing if I were to post the letter.
I expect that soon, the media will also pick up on the letter, and they will end up releasing many of the details.
Sorry I haven't released it (at least yet), but I have my reasons.
That being said; if you received the letter from a friend at the governor's office, then I would ask you to ask your friend what the governor's office is doing about it? I have only heard back from four legislators, nobody on the commission, and nothing from the governor's office. So far nobody has even asked for the supporting documentation, which is substantial.
Trust me, I would love to have posted it on here, but I am giving it time for those I targeted to work on it.
Post by: jackmaster on July 03, 2014, 07:03:57 AM
YOU SIR ARE A TRUE CLASS ACT :tup: :tup: :tup: its to bad wdfw doesnt sit the hell up and take notice, i guess in todays world it is easier to let problems snow ball and compound than actually trying to fix them :dunno: :dunno: keep up the fight UC... :tup:I was forwarded your letter to the Governor I'm wondering why it's not posted up.I was going to post but for fear that it might screw your case up I thought I would ask first.
The decision for me not to release the 10-page letter was mine, but was based on advice of an attorney. An attorney friend of mine told me to keep my communications, regarding my allegations, between myself and the law makers only (WDFW Commission, the Governor, and key legislators). The concern is two-fold; it might be easier for those who I accuse of improper conduct to accuse me of just wanting to smear them if I went public with it, and it also might appear, to the law makers, as if I am out for revenge rather than doing the right thing if I were to post the letter.
I expect that soon, the media will also pick up on the letter, and they will end up releasing many of the details.
Sorry I haven't released it (at least yet), but I have my reasons.
That being said; if you received the letter from a friend at the governor's office, then I would ask you to ask your friend what the governor's office is doing about it? I have only heard back from four legislators, nobody on the commission, and nothing from the governor's office. So far nobody has even asked for the supporting documentation, which is substantial.
Trust me, I would love to have posted it on here, but I am giving it time for those I targeted to work on it.
Post by: johnsc6 on July 03, 2014, 07:30:30 AM
Post by: bbarnes on July 03, 2014, 07:51:01 AM
Post by: ucwarden on July 03, 2014, 04:34:22 PM
Thanks for the info U C I think when this is released to the public,people will be SHOCKED.My self and others are like yourself,trying to make a change for the good of wildlife in this state.There seems to need reorganizing on both sides,law enforcement that I have always supported,and game management.I think the lack of reaction comes from,sheer embarrassment by the law makers.One thing we can both agree on is,WDFW s leadership is broken.I will wait for your call to action,before I distribute this to anyone.
Feel free to discuss whatever you want on here. I am not telling you that you should keep quiet about what you know, just that I am taking that course right now.
What I really need it support from the law makers.....the people who can make things happen in state government. As you read in my letter, we have a great case for making some serious changes, but so far it has fallen on deaf ears.
As I said before; out of 40+ legislators, the governor and the WDFW commission, only four legislators have even responded (saying the received my letter), and nobody has spoken to me or asked for the supporting documentation. It's really frustrating that apparently nobody will step up and take the lead role now that I have done all the legwork.
Have a great 4th, and be safe!!
Post by: bigtex on July 03, 2014, 07:05:48 PM
As I said before; out of 40+ legislators, the governor and the WDFW commission, only four legislators have even responded (saying the received my letter), and nobody has spoken to me or asked for the supporting documentation. It's really frustrating that apparently nobody will step up and take the lead role now that I have done all the legwork.UC,
Have a great 4th, and be safe!!
How did you choose the 40+ legislators to send the letter to? Are they all outdoorsmen, former LE, natural resource committee members, etc...
Post by: ucwarden on July 04, 2014, 06:41:18 AM
As I said before; out of 40+ legislators, the governor and the WDFW commission, only four legislators have even responded (saying the received my letter), and nobody has spoken to me or asked for the supporting documentation. It's really frustrating that apparently nobody will step up and take the lead role now that I have done all the legwork.UC,
Have a great 4th, and be safe!!
How did you choose the 40+ legislators to send the letter to? Are they all outdoorsmen, former LE, natural resource committee members, etc...
They are all natural resource or law and justice committee members
Post by: ghosthunter on July 04, 2014, 07:35:47 AM
Post by: ucwarden on July 04, 2014, 08:36:05 AM
So what now?
So now we wait, and give the lawmakers a chance to make this right. I have never expected this to be resolved quickly, and am willing to wait a while before I take the next step.
The evidence I put in my 10-page letter should be very compelling, so it is just a matter of the right person (or people) getting the message and taking the investigation by the horns. I am fairly confident it will all work out. We just have to be patient.
Post by: huntnphool on July 04, 2014, 10:32:59 AM
Post by: Wacenturion on July 04, 2014, 10:46:47 AM
Maybe its time to "get Jesse" :chuckle:
:chuckle:
Post by: ucwarden on July 04, 2014, 01:49:16 PM
Maybe its time to "get Jesse" :chuckle:
I have no idea who to contact at this point. If an officer or Sgt. does something wrong, I know for sure who investigates it and dishes out the punishment (even if they didn't do it), but when it comes to investigating the top-dogs and holding them accountable it seems nobody does so.
Post by: sled on July 04, 2014, 02:32:27 PM
Ah Ha! You've HIt The Nail On The Head With That One. Seems That The People That Need To Be Investigating Are Lied To And Cheated Like Everyone Else.Maybe its time to "get Jesse" :chuckle:
I have no idea who to contact at this point. If an officer or Sgt. does something wrong, I know for sure who investigates it and dishes out the punishment (even if they didn't do it), but when it comes to investigating the top-dogs and holding them accountable it seems nobody does so.
Sometimes All It Takes Is Exactly What You Have Done. If Not, Seems That Would Be The Time To Go public :tup:
Post by: ucwarden on July 05, 2014, 09:35:41 AM
Ah Ha! You've HIt The Nail On The Head With That One. Seems That The People That Need To Be Investigating Are Lied To And Cheated Like Everyone Else.Maybe its time to "get Jesse" :chuckle:
I have no idea who to contact at this point. If an officer or Sgt. does something wrong, I know for sure who investigates it and dishes out the punishment (even if they didn't do it), but when it comes to investigating the top-dogs and holding them accountable it seems nobody does so.
Sometimes All It Takes Is Exactly What You Have Done. If Not, Seems That Would Be The Time To Go public :tup:
Things are looking up, and I "think" the right people are on it now!!
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on July 05, 2014, 10:14:18 AM
Post by: RELV on July 05, 2014, 12:20:48 PM
Post by: ucwarden on July 05, 2014, 12:48:49 PM
I have received excellent responses from Pam Roach on fish/wildlife issues in the past. How is she responding? She is up for re-election and usually understands her constituents well. Let me know if I can be of service in contacting her on your behalf (and as a vocal constituent of hers).
I keep hearing, from other people, she is not happy with WDFW and would be a good one to have on our side. Thus far I haven't heard a word from her. She didn't even acknowledge receipt of my email. So if anyone knows her personally, tell her to check her email and look into the 10 pages of allegations I sent her and the other 40 legislators.
Post by: RELV on July 05, 2014, 02:22:59 PM
Post by: bbarnes on July 05, 2014, 03:19:18 PM
Post by: ucwarden on July 06, 2014, 05:31:14 PM
I'll call her office and send her a personal e-mail.
Thanks
Post by: ucwarden on July 06, 2014, 05:32:03 PM
You need to certify every letter you send with a registered receipt.Second did you send one to the attorney generals office ? If not they will be who investigates this situation.
In the process of doing so....thanks
Post by: ballpark on July 07, 2014, 07:19:20 AM
You need to certify every letter you send with a registered receipt.Second did you send one to the attorney generals office ? If not they will be who investigates this situation.
BBarnes is right, you need to up your game. Nobody reads emails, especially if their 10 pages. :bash: If you are contacting a State official, send it certified mail. :tup:
Post by: ucwarden on July 07, 2014, 08:42:14 AM
You need to certify every letter you send with a registered receipt.Second did you send one to the attorney generals office ? If not they will be who investigates this situation.
BBarnes is right, you need to up your game. Nobody reads emails, especially if their 10 pages. :bash: If you are contacting a State official, send it certified mail. :tup:
Thanks. I am working on that today.
Post by: gasman on July 07, 2014, 08:04:03 PM
They were advertising her supporting sportsmen and to come meet her and listen to what she has to say :dunno:
If anyone stops by soon, take a look at the date or I will try to stop by there and take a look if I get a chance.
Post by: RELV on July 07, 2014, 08:23:24 PM
Post by: ucwarden on July 08, 2014, 06:37:52 AM
Sent Senator Roach an email today. I'll try calling one of her staffer's tomorrow.
I did receive an email from one of her staff, stating that they received my information.
Post by: Daytonite on July 28, 2014, 08:40:32 PM
Post by: ucwarden on July 29, 2014, 08:37:48 PM
Post by: ucwarden on August 08, 2014, 09:48:15 AM
Any response by the agency or commission? Just wondering if they just pushed this to the back burner to see how serious you are and start scrambling to make themselves look as good as they can considering the circumstances.
Thus far, nothing from either the commission or WDFW. I have sent a 10-page document, detailing wrong-doing by WDFW administrators, to 50+ legislators and the governor. The governor's office didn't even bother to respond at all, but several legislators have shown an interest and I believe are looking into this mess. I have found this to be very slow, and frustrating, but perhaps with time something positive may come of all this. I will keep y'all posted. Thanks
Post by: Daytonite on August 08, 2014, 11:51:05 AM
Thanks for the update :tup:
Post by: Gringo31 on August 08, 2014, 12:11:16 PM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on August 08, 2014, 01:04:15 PM
Post by: Bob33 on August 08, 2014, 01:11:48 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on August 08, 2014, 01:45:37 PM
One person shows are rarely effective with issues like this. To succeed, you need to enlist the support of some groups with like interests and concerns. :twocents::yeah:
And as I mentioned about 20 pages ago...you have to focus on solving a problem and provide a realistic solution. Regardless of intent I guarantee your petition and letter are coming across to many recipients as nothing more than a disgruntled employee trying to seek revenge on his old bosses. I did not sign your petition...I think you are well meaning in improving wdfw enforcement...but you never offered up any long-term solutions. You got a decent response from sportsmen and it sounds like some legislators...maybe you could scale back and look for one or two high priority things to fix and push those issues. :twocents:
Post by: dscubame on August 08, 2014, 03:40:59 PM
You need to make this public
Until I see that happen I have been and will remain very skeptical. This is one band wagon I know better than to jump on without better info. I predict a train wreck of this thread eventually but hope to be proved wrong.
Post by: Gringo31 on August 08, 2014, 03:48:49 PM
Lawsuits seem to get attention as well.
Post by: ucwarden on August 09, 2014, 07:49:10 AM
You need to make this public
I am well aware of the fact that going public adds pressure to all involved to actually follow through and take action.
But, there are dozens of allegations in my letter, and an attorney advised me to keep it between myself and the lawmakers, to avoid any allegation of me intentionally trying to destroy people's reputations. In other words; keeping it between myself and lawmakers reduces the administrator's odds of successfully arguing defamation of character.
I am trying the least intrusive approach, and am not ready to give up on that yet. Also; there is at least one reporter who has the story and he should be coming out with it soon.
Post by: ucwarden on August 09, 2014, 08:00:22 AM
One person shows are rarely effective with issues like this. To succeed, you need to enlist the support of some groups with like interests and concerns. :twocents::yeah:
And as I mentioned about 20 pages ago...you have to focus on solving a problem and provide a realistic solution. Regardless of intent I guarantee your petition and letter are coming across to many recipients as nothing more than a disgruntled employee trying to seek revenge on his old bosses. I did not sign your petition...I think you are well meaning in improving wdfw enforcement...but you never offered up any long-term solutions. You got a decent response from sportsmen and it sounds like some legislators...maybe you could scale back and look for one or two high priority things to fix and push those issues. :twocents:
The solution is removal of the top administrators in WDFW (Enforcement), and replacement with open, honest and qualified leaders. Step one is to remove them, step two is to replace them with honest, fair and qualified administrators. I realize many people may view me as a single disgruntled ex-employee, and that is their (or your) right, but there are many WDFW officers who are right along-side me in this fight, but they don't have the option of going public.
Some of you have been critical, or doubtful of my "cause", but when of if all the details come out, you will be stunned. I am not just wandering around in the dark taking weak shots.
I really wish I could enlighten all of you on the information I have, and have distributed to the lawmakers, but at this point I can't.
However, Bobcat did somehow see my letter (I think he has a friend in the legislature), so ask him if he feels I have enough.
Post by: trophyhunt on August 09, 2014, 08:07:26 AM
please keep up the fight! This is a true testament to your patience and willingness to see this through, again thank you. If possible could you give us a heads up before the reporter goes on?You need to make this public
I am well aware of the fact that going public adds pressure to all involved to actually follow through and take action.
But, there are dozens of allegations in my letter, and an attorney advised me to keep it between myself and the lawmakers, to avoid any allegation of me intentionally trying to destroy people's reputations. In other words; keeping it between myself and lawmakers reduces the administrator's odds of successfully arguing defamation of character.
I am trying the least intrusive approach, and am not ready to give up on that yet. Also; there is at least one reporter who has the story and he should be coming out with it soon.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on August 09, 2014, 08:10:32 AM
Post by: TwoSixFourWins on August 09, 2014, 08:17:46 AM
Post by: idahohuntr on August 09, 2014, 08:21:49 AM
But if you are certain in the accuracy of your allegations I don't understand why you won't go public? Do you have doubts about the supporting evidence you have for your allegations?
Post by: Curly on August 09, 2014, 01:38:39 PM
Post by: Curly on August 09, 2014, 01:56:58 PM
If that link above works, it should take you to a thread about removing Phil Anderson. The second to last post has ucwarden's letter quoted from another thread. I couldn't find that other thread.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on August 09, 2014, 08:50:46 PM
Post by: Caseyd on August 09, 2014, 09:38:10 PM
Not really much of a letter.
:dunno:
Post by: Knocker of rocks on August 10, 2014, 08:21:28 AM
Not really much of a letter.
:dunno:
As a synopsis:
1) Something happened in 1992
2) They didn't look long enough for a new Chief
3) A couple might have screwed
4) Two guys got fired
5) Somebody is a crappy driver
It really comes off as being written by a disgruntled ex employee, with no basis to fire the Chiefs much less the Director. Weeks and months of hinting about this powerhouse letter, and this is what it is. No politician, member of the media or Attorney General will respond because there just isn't enough there.
Post by: idahohuntr on August 10, 2014, 09:36:07 AM
That is my take as well.Not really much of a letter.
:dunno:
As a synopsis:
1) Something happened in 1992
2) They didn't look long enough for a new Chief
3) A couple might have screwed
4) Two guys got fired
5) Somebody is a crappy driver
It really comes off as being written by a disgruntled ex employee, with no basis to fire the Chiefs much less the Director. Weeks and months of hinting about this powerhouse letter, and this is what it is. No politician, member of the media or Attorney General will respond because there just isn't enough there.
Uc- your heart is in the right place and you have done great things in your career for sportsmen in wa...but this letter isn't going anywhere.
Post by: Curly on August 10, 2014, 09:52:05 AM
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on August 10, 2014, 10:10:01 AM
Not really much of a letter.
:dunno:
As a synopsis:
1) Something happened in 1992
2) They didn't look long enough for a new Chief
3) A couple might have screwed
4) Two guys got fired
5) Somebody is a crappy driver
It really comes off as being written by a disgruntled ex employee, with no basis to fire the Chiefs much less the Director. Weeks and months of hinting about this powerhouse letter, and this is what it is. No politician, member of the media or Attorney General will respond because there just isn't enough there.
That is my take as well.Not really much of a letter.
:dunno:
As a synopsis:
1) Something happened in 1992
2) They didn't look long enough for a new Chief
3) A couple might have screwed
4) Two guys got fired
5) Somebody is a crappy driver
It really comes off as being written by a disgruntled ex employee, with no basis to fire the Chiefs much less the Director. Weeks and months of hinting about this powerhouse letter, and this is what it is. No politician, member of the media or Attorney General will respond because there just isn't enough there.
Uc- your heart is in the right place and you have done great things in your career for sportsmen in wa...but this letter isn't going anywhere.
Many of us sure seem to have been programmed to minimize issues haven't we????? Hell Nixon resigned for MUCH less than one big ass mistake America has done
As for his heart I feel we could only wish that new recruits would have anywhere near the heart that folks in UC's days had for the job !(without decades of greenie programming)
Post by: billythekidrock on August 10, 2014, 10:46:17 AM
Why can't something be done? UC warden has outlined cases of corruption, inappropriate behavior, and provided several reasons why Cenci should not work for wdfw let alone be in his current position. Sure, the letter could be written better, but I don't understand why something can't be done to remove Cenci. I would hope that the governor is investigating the allegations outlined in the letter.
I agree. The letter could have been written much better. It does sound like a disgruntled ex-employee, but isn't that the fact of the matter? Sure the letter contains a lot of sour grapes type complaints, but some of complaints by themselves are serious enough to fire the average employee on the spot, let alone in total.
I would hope the governor would take the time to take a serious look at some of the allegations. Unless complicit, I don't see a reason to remove Anderson. If even only one or two of the serious allegations against Cenci are true, I think he needs to go.
Post by: ucwarden on August 10, 2014, 04:17:20 PM
Not really much of a letter.
:dunno:
As a synopsis:
1) Something happened in 1992
2) They didn't look long enough for a new Chief
3) A couple might have screwed
4) Two guys got fired
5) Somebody is a crappy driver
It really comes off as being written by a disgruntled ex employee, with no basis to fire the Chiefs much less the Director. Weeks and months of hinting about this powerhouse letter, and this is what it is. No politician, member of the media or Attorney General will respond because there just isn't enough there.
Knocker of rocks:
It seems incredible that you sum up 8 pages of serious allegations into the above list. Either you think this type of behavior is acceptable, or you didn't read the entire letter, or you just don't understand what you read, or you work in the WDFW headquarters. Any one of these allegations would get an officer in serious trouble if not fired. Remember these same characters fired an officer and demoted a Sgt. for much less.
Post by: Curly on August 10, 2014, 04:21:55 PM
Post by: Bob33 on August 10, 2014, 04:53:08 PM
I also suspect it's a small blip on his radar, and unless there are more forces brought to bear nothing will come of it. There are hunting related organizations such as the Hunter Heritage Council, Safari Club, and others. Why aren't they involved?
http://ofm.wa.gov/budget13/highlights/proposed_budget_expenditures.pdf (http://ofm.wa.gov/budget13/highlights/proposed_budget_expenditures.pdf)
Post by: Knocker of rocks on August 11, 2014, 06:44:04 AM
Knocker of rocks:
It seems incredible that you sum up 8 pages of serious allegations into the above list. Either you think this type of behavior is acceptable, or you didn't read the entire letter, or you just don't understand what you read, or you work in the WDFW headquarters. Any one of these allegations would get an officer in serious trouble if not fired. Remember these same characters fired an officer and demoted a Sgt. for much less.
I read it.
1) Somebody got fired - No other context given
2) A-B: Complaints about the hiring system
C: Hearsay slander about the new hire
D: Complaints about the Union not being involved in the new hire - So what?
E-F: Complaints about other hires
3) Complaints about top heavy management. Something to discuss with the Commission and politicians, but certainly nothing anybody would consider
firing the top three for
4) Allegations of poor police standards, some of which are ancient. The younger violations should be revisited.
5) Value judgements best left for the political process
6) I have no idea what this is about.
7) A mistake made in front of the media.
8) Hearsay
9) Big deal, they changed the name. The horrors!!!!
10) Assumptions with no proof.
11) Union officer fired
12) Political issue
13) Tripe
14) More tripe about driving
15) Promotions: complaints about
16) No evidence that the investigation by the private law firm was flawed, only that you disagree with it
17) Budgetary issues that we should all be at odds with
18) Your petition - why is this even on your list of allegations?
19-20) More bla-bla-bla about your petition
21) Allegations not to talk to you
22) Given without proof
23-30) Bunch of tripe forwarded by the union
As you said "Any one of these allegations would get an officer in serious trouble if not fired". I think that is an exaggeration. This is a list of sour grapes.
Post by: ucwarden on August 11, 2014, 08:14:58 AM
I'm thinking of writing a letter to the governor's office and wdfw commission and asking what they are doing about Cenci. I really want their take on the allegations and find out why he hasn't been fired yet. Do you think that would be worthwhile?
Not sure if it would do any good, but might be worth a try. Thanks
Post by: ucwarden on August 11, 2014, 08:22:21 AM
Knocker of rocks:
It seems incredible that you sum up 8 pages of serious allegations into the above list. Either you think this type of behavior is acceptable, or you didn't read the entire letter, or you just don't understand what you read, or you work in the WDFW headquarters. Any one of these allegations would get an officer in serious trouble if not fired. Remember these same characters fired an officer and demoted a Sgt. for much less.
I read it.
1) Somebody got fired - No other context given
2) A-B: Complaints about the hiring system
C: Hearsay slander about the new hire
D: Complaints about the Union not being involved in the new hire - So what?
E-F: Complaints about other hires
3) Complaints about top heavy management. Something to discuss with the Commission and politicians, but certainly nothing anybody would consider
firing the top three for
4) Allegations of poor police standards, some of which are ancient. The younger violations should be revisited.
5) Value judgements best left for the political process
6) I have no idea what this is about.
7) A mistake made in front of the media.
8) Hearsay
9) Big deal, they changed the name. The horrors!!!!
10) Assumptions with no proof.
11) Union officer fired
12) Political issue
13) Tripe
14) More tripe about driving
15) Promotions: complaints about
16) No evidence that the investigation by the private law firm was flawed, only that you disagree with it
17) Budgetary issues that we should all be at odds with
18) Your petition - why is this even on your list of allegations?
19-20) More bla-bla-bla about your petition
21) Allegations not to talk to you
22) Given without proof
23-30) Bunch of tripe forwarded by the union
As you said "Any one of these allegations would get an officer in serious trouble if not fired". I think that is an exaggeration. This is a list of sour grapes.
What can I say; you are entitled to your opinions. I don't understand how you can read this and come out with an opinion that there is nothing (or not much) there, but that's your opinion. I do take a little exception to your implications that there is no proof, when I state I have all the supporting documentation available.
I would like to know who you work for, because if you feel this is all a lot of hot air that doesn't amount to anything, I want to work where you do.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on August 11, 2014, 08:33:51 AM
Post by: Landowner on August 11, 2014, 09:05:48 AM
If the agencies in this state have even half the problems as outlined in that letter about WDFW, then this state is a mess.
The fact that a high ranking law enforcement officer would go public on live television (and in an instant internet world) with the announcement of the Operation Cody arrests before other law enforcement officers had even began their arrest efforts that day is remarkable.
Anyone that thinks that letter is a bunch of nothing is willing to accept and look past a lot of BS in state agencies.
Post by: ctwiggs1 on August 11, 2014, 09:11:25 AM
I'll ask him tonight what his stance is on all this. If he says this is as bad as you say it is, I'll send the letter in a heartbeat.
Curtis
Post by: whacker1 on August 11, 2014, 10:03:24 AM
It seems to be a trait in Law Enforcement that there are three over simplified personas of those employees: 1) Those that feel that they should be treated at higher standard for any wrong doing. 2) those that fee that they should be treated as any other citizen. 3) Those that feel that they are above the law and should be given favors by others in law enforcement for merely holding a badge. It seems to me that #3 is the problem you are dealing with and furthers the double standard I mentioned above.
I don't think you are going to have much traction with your current format unless someone first person in items #25, 27, 29 to file an Employment Practices claim alleging "hostile work environment, Sexual Harrassment, Bullying, or Harrasment" Your next most probable option would be if some legislator took a particular interest in this case, sadly the one legislator that I thought would take an interest has 180 degree different view than you.
#23, and the double standard in miss-handling of evidence are the issues that would end most careers.
#24 just happened with Spokane County deputy sheriff and he got his job back after being fired. "The arbitrator found that the consequence was too severe". this wasn't with an employee
All of the other issues you itemized reak of a bully at the top with a "my way or the highway" mentality and "do as I say not as I do" leadership style.
Bottom line is Cenci is going to need to have to cause a traffic accident while intoxicated in a department vehicle, with and underage hooker in the vehicle, flee the scene, and try to cover it up on the following days in order to have any real consequences. It is obvious that the other leadership is condoning the activity or at least condoning it by turning a blind eye.
I wish you luck in your endeavor, but sadly I think you have a tremendous uphill battle.
If you decide to go public with your Media sources. My advice is to work closely with the Media Source and make sure to lay out well the most egregious abuses where the double standard was used and evidence in the background supports the lies and deceit. If you come forward with this list, the general public will overlook the largest issues, because it is watered down by those that are less concerning. It is information overload for the general public that is unfamiliar with the department and procedures and policy to digest. It appears to me that you are likely be too close to the issue and that the passion for correction makes you just lay it all out. That strategy won't be helpful to you in the long run. You need a to take an issue or maybe two and run with them. If you can gain momentum, then when asked you bring the next in line of egregious activities with a well organized back drop of evidence. :twocents:
You need an investigative journalist to help you lay this out and bring it forward to reign in the information overload.
again just my :twocents:
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on August 11, 2014, 10:16:33 AM
Post by: idahohuntr on August 11, 2014, 12:43:08 PM
I don't think anybody is saying the letter is "nothing"...it just falls far short of what it would take to remove top administrators from their posts. A whole bunch of the letter comes off as a disgruntled ex-employee...and that is why it is really easy for people in power (governor, legislators etc.) to brush this off as they have.
Anyone that thinks that letter is a bunch of nothing is willing to accept and look past a lot of BS in state agencies.
No doubt Cenci is a pos who should be fired...and hopefully this will help setup the discussion for hiring the next chief of LE whenever that time comes...but there is nothing so scathing that would trigger immediate removal. In fact, a lot of it falls under the "life is not fair" rule...promotions, favoritism, nepotism, etc. occurs in many public and private workplaces...it is not unique to wdfw and while it sucks it is rarely something that results in discipline/termination.
I think any further pressure on wdfw admin has to come from folks besides UC...he is easy to impeach as just another disgruntled employee...its not fair to him...but life's not fair. I believe the focus should be on Cenci and not Crown or Anderson.
Post by: MuleDeerCrazy on August 11, 2014, 01:00:46 PM
Post by: Curly on August 11, 2014, 01:05:18 PM
But, I also have to wonder why Anderson doesn't remove Cenci? Wouldn't that be his call to remove him? Or does the Commission have the power? :dunno:
Post by: WSU on August 11, 2014, 01:09:37 PM
It appears Phil Anderson is hanging it up the end of this year now anyway...
Where'd you hear that?
Post by: Bob33 on August 11, 2014, 01:21:19 PM
I sure wouldn't stick around any longer if I were him. What a crappy job it must be.He could remove Cenci. Ironically, he may have been the best bet to do so but the fact that he was targeted as well may have caused him to close ranks.
But, I also have to wonder why Anderson doesn't remove Cenci? Wouldn't that be his call to remove him? Or does the Commission have the power? :dunno:
Post by: Daytonite on August 11, 2014, 01:32:14 PM
It appears Phil Anderson is hanging it up the end of this year now anyway...
Where'd you hear that?
I too heard that late this morning/early afternoon from a WDFW employee
Post by: Bob33 on August 11, 2014, 01:39:28 PM
I heard it also. On Hunt WA.It appears Phil Anderson is hanging it up the end of this year now anyway...
Where'd you hear that?
I too heard that late this morning/early afternoon from a WDFW employee
Post by: jackelope on August 11, 2014, 02:06:28 PM
Quote
WDFW director to leave at the end of the year
OLYMPIA – After nearly six years at the helm, Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) Director Phil Anderson has informed the state Fish and Wildlife Commission he will resign from his position, effective Dec. 31.
“Deciding when to move on is a difficult decision,” Anderson said. “But after 20 great years with the department, the time is right for me to step aside. I will leave knowing that the talented people I have had the privilege to work with here at WDFW are fully capable of taking on the challenges that lie ahead.”
The Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission, a citizen panel appointed by the governor to set policy for WDFW, will begin the recruitment process for a new director in the next few weeks.
“Phil has done a tremendous job leading the department through some difficult and challenging issues over the past several years,” said Miranda Wecker, chair of the commission. “His strong conservation ethic, dedication to sound fiscal management and expertise in intergovernmental relations have greatly benefitted the department and the state’s fish and wildlife resources it protects and manages.”
As director, Anderson guided the department through the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression. During the unprecedented budget shortfall, state General Fund support for WDFW declined by nearly $50 million – 45 percent – threatening department operations and fishing and hunting opportunities throughout the state.
To address the shortfall, Anderson and his staff worked to restructure the agency while continuing to provide key services and maintain a high conservation standard for Washington’s fish and wildlife. As part of that effort, WDFW worked closely with stakeholders to develop new revenue streams and reduce the department’s reliance on the state General Fund.
Also under Anderson’s leadership, the department developed a plan to guide state conservation and management of gray wolves as they recolonize in Washington – a controversial issue that has evoked strong reactions from people on both sides of the Cascade Range.
The department implemented the plan in 2011, after working closely with a number of citizen advisors, including those representing conservationists, hunters and livestock producers. The plan establishes clear recovery objectives for gray wolves, along with procedures for addressing predation on livestock and impacts on ungulates such as deer, elk and caribou.
Throughout his career at WDFW, Anderson has played a leading role in working with Indian tribes in a number of forums, including the annual salmon co-management process known as North of Falcon. During this process, the state and tribes set seasons for marine and freshwater salmon fisheries throughout Puget Sound, the Columbia River and Washington’s coastal areas.
Anderson also has served as WDFW’s representative to the Pacific Fishery Management Council (PFMC) and serves as a commissioner on the Pacific Salmon Commission.
Over the last decade, Anderson and his team successfully maintained fishing opportunities by establishing new sustainable fisheries that allow the harvest of abundant wild stocks and hatchery-produced fish while meeting conservation objectives for wild populations listed for protection under the federal Endangered Species Act.
Key to this effort has been the use of selective-fishing methods, including mark-selective fisheries that allow anglers to catch and keep abundant hatchery salmon but require that they release wild salmon. Establishing these fisheries, where appropriate, has resulted in additional harvest opportunities.
Anderson also has led WDFW’s effort to change state hatchery operations to support the recovery of wild salmon and steelhead populations.
“I am proud of the fact that we have successfully maintained fish production while reforming hatchery practices to ensure that they are compatible with efforts to rebuild wild fish populations,” Anderson said. “The job is definitely not done, but we have made tremendous strides in the right direction that bode well for the future of Washington’s fish stocks and fisheries.”
Anderson, who lives in Westport, said he plans to spend more time with his family and will look for other opportunities to contribute to resource conservation and management.
Anderson, 64, joined WDFW in 1994 after serving seven years on the PFMC as a private citizen, including as the council’s chair. Anderson was appointed WDFW director in 2009 after serving nearly nine months as the agency’s interim director. He previously served as WDFW’s deputy director for resource policy and as assistant director of the department’s Intergovernmental Resource Management Program.
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Post by: Curly on August 11, 2014, 02:12:22 PM
Post by: TVHunts on August 11, 2014, 02:35:26 PM
Email just hit. He's leaving.
That's one down! Why or how is irrelevant.
Post by: bobcat on August 11, 2014, 02:48:08 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on August 11, 2014, 02:51:28 PM
Maybe Cenci will become the new director. :oor Mitch Friedman or Wayne Pacelle. About the same difference.
Post by: HntnFsh on August 11, 2014, 04:02:17 PM
Post by: whacker1 on August 11, 2014, 04:19:01 PM
maybe ucwarden was more successful than he'll ever know!
That thought crossed my mind as well. :dunno:
So now it is time to step up the heat and make sure that Cenci and Crown aren't the replacements.
One day, in a perfect world. It would be wonderful if there was a balance between the representation from the Marine Side as well as the Wildlife side, and I am speaking of the department as well as the Commissioners.
Post by: eldplanko on August 11, 2014, 05:05:24 PM
Maybe Cenci will become the new director. :o
I forget how this works... doesn't the advisory board recommend the commissioner, and it's endorsed by the governor?
Post by: bigtex on August 11, 2014, 06:58:42 PM
The Fish and Wildlife Commission select the Director.Maybe Cenci will become the new director. :oI forget how this works... doesn't the advisory board recommend the commissioner, and it's endorsed by the governor?
The Governor selects the Fish and Wildlife Commission
Post by: TheHunt on August 11, 2014, 07:20:11 PM
Post by: Special T on August 11, 2014, 10:08:26 PM
Maybe Cenci will become the new director. :o
Bite your damn tongue for even saying that blasphemy! :o
Post by: t6 on August 12, 2014, 07:10:05 PM
Post by: MarkyMark on August 12, 2014, 07:39:26 PM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on August 12, 2014, 07:42:43 PM
I don't think anybody is saying the letter is "nothing"...it just falls far short of what it would take to remove top administrators from their posts. A whole bunch of the letter comes off as a disgruntled ex-employee...and that is why it is really easy for people in power (governor, legislators etc.) to brush this off as they have.
Anyone that thinks that letter is a bunch of nothing is willing to accept and look past a lot of BS in state agencies.
No doubt Cenci is a pos who should be fired...and hopefully this will help setup the discussion for hiring the next chief of LE whenever that time comes...but there is nothing so scathing that would trigger immediate removal. In fact, a lot of it falls under the "life is not fair" rule...promotions, favoritism, nepotism, etc. occurs in many public and private workplaces...it is not unique to wdfw and while it sucks it is rarely something that results in discipline/termination.
I think any further pressure on wdfw admin has to come from folks besides UC...he is easy to impeach as just another disgruntled employee...its not fair to him...but life's not fair. I believe the focus should be on Cenci and not Crown or Anderson.
:yeah:
Post by: sakoshooter on August 12, 2014, 09:11:00 PM
Post by: ucwarden on August 13, 2014, 08:40:14 AM
Got the email about Anderson leaving. Good. No, great. Not sure if UC Warden's pot stirring had anything to do with it or not. Either way, it's a good thing.
I have no idea if my cause had anything to do with the director's decision to leave or not, but I will take it either way. Now a couple more to go, and we have to make sure we get a director who listens, and pays attention, just a little bit more. It would also be nice if the next director gave some attention to wildlife rather than giving all his attention to fish.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on August 13, 2014, 06:06:19 PM
Post by: Forks on August 13, 2014, 06:36:06 PM
That's great ..we still have along long road ahead of us :tup: So how does that work ? Does Cenci automatically become director ?ucwarden, help this man please.
Post by: ucwarden on August 14, 2014, 07:33:37 AM
That's great ..we still have along long road ahead of us :tup: So how does that work ? Does Cenci automatically become director ?
I assume the deputy director will take over, but if not they will open the director position up for any and all applicants. It is inconceivable that Cenci (or anyone from enforcement) would get the director position. I am not too worried about who the new director is, as long as he or she has an open mind and supports all fish and wildlife on both sides of the state...for once.
Post by: nwwanderer on August 14, 2014, 07:46:04 AM
Post by: ucwarden on August 14, 2014, 08:55:16 AM
Tall order UCWARDEN, a director that did not mind rolling heads would also be helpful
It is very easy to get discouraged, but there really are a lot of good honest people within WDFW as well as outside of WDFW (who might be interested in the Director's position). Right now my main focus is on getting attention focused on what has been happening in enforcement, so whoever takes over as director cleans house.
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 14, 2014, 09:18:43 AM
Tall order UCWARDEN, a director that did not mind rolling heads would also be helpful
It is very easy to get discouraged, but there really are a lot of good honest people within WDFW as well as outside of WDFW (who might be interested in the Director's position). Right now my main focus is on getting attention focused on what has been happening in enforcement, so whoever takes over as director cleans house.
So, knowing what you know, who would you pick from existing personnel to lead the department?
Post by: ucwarden on August 14, 2014, 10:19:53 AM
Tall order UCWARDEN, a director that did not mind rolling heads would also be helpful
It is very easy to get discouraged, but there really are a lot of good honest people within WDFW as well as outside of WDFW (who might be interested in the Director's position). Right now my main focus is on getting attention focused on what has been happening in enforcement, so whoever takes over as director cleans house.
So, knowing what you know, who would you pick from existing personnel to lead the department?
I have several in mind, but to be honest if I list them out on this public forum it would be like "the kiss of death" to their careers. They would instantly be viewed as undesirable as they would be viewed as a friend of mine, which would therefore make them an enemy of the present administration.
Post by: ghosthunter on August 14, 2014, 10:28:19 AM
Time to make a clean sweep.
And what about Nate? Seems like he has been a little misleading on wolves.
And maybe the guy who let them spend $75,000.00 plus on orange fake guns for Hunter Ed. He should go too.
Post by: ucwarden on August 14, 2014, 10:44:42 AM
Sooooo what's the chance of getting rid of Cenci and is it Meyer in Region 4.?
Time to make a clean sweep.
And what about Nate? Seems like he has been a little misleading on wolves.
And maybe the guy who let them spend $75,000.00 plus on orange fake guns for Hunter Ed. He should go too.
That is the six-million dollar question. So far the response, to my 10 page letter regarding "serious WDFW issues", from the legislators has been pretty bleak. The governor has never even responded, despite my attempts to get him or his office to even verify receipt.
However the media, and an investigative branch of the state have been digging into it, so a lot depends on what they find and the aftermath. As far as I can tell, the WDFW commission has never even discussed the letter, even though I was told it was going to be discussed at the last commission meeting (last week). I wasn't at the meeting (maybe someone on here was), but I looked on the commission website and I sure don't see any mention of it.
It will also depend on who ends running the dept., and if he or she wants to make the changes that most of us believe need to be made.
Post by: ghosthunter on August 14, 2014, 11:26:15 AM
Coupe hundred emails might help push some action.
Post by: Curly on August 14, 2014, 11:30:11 AM
Maybe this is a good time to email the commission and ask them to look into it.?That is what I'm thinking as well. Maybe even letters to the editor of newspapers and magazines like nw sportsman. Time to really apply some pressure to get some change in the right direction.
Coupe hundred emails might help push some action.
Post by: ghosthunter on August 14, 2014, 11:34:32 AM
Maybe this is a good time to email the commission and ask them to look into it.?That is what I'm thinking as well. Maybe even letters to the editor of newspapers and magazines like nw sportsman. Time to really apply some pressure to get some change in the right direction.
Coupe hundred emails might help push some action.
Yep now might be the time to get everyone talking about this. It also might influence Director candidates.
Now till December seems like a ideal time to put pressure on.
Post by: ucwarden on August 14, 2014, 04:27:33 PM
Maybe this is a good time to email the commission and ask them to look into it.?
Coupe hundred emails might help push some action.
And your legislators, that's an excellent idea!
Post by: ucwarden on September 10, 2014, 11:40:25 AM
Post by: idahohuntr on September 10, 2014, 12:15:06 PM
Post by: ucwarden on September 10, 2014, 12:25:09 PM
UC - I was critical of your original letter and did not think it provided merit for your claims of removal. Reading briefly the attachment, this is exactly the kind of information that I think should/could lead to some firing. I would be very curious to hear WDFW admin, Chief Crown etc. explain or condone Cenci's behavior based on this case and if/how he was/will be disciplined!!!!
Either way, I have a feeling a lot of our license dollars are going to be spent paying off the lawsuit which I am sure will be coming immediately.
Post by: vandeman17 on September 10, 2014, 12:33:53 PM
Post by: ucwarden on September 10, 2014, 12:44:16 PM
Wow. The plot thickens
Now it will be interesting to see if anyone really cares.
Post by: Bob33 on September 10, 2014, 12:48:50 PM
Post by: ghosthunter on September 10, 2014, 01:13:06 PM
Legal or not?
Wants to look in my canopy. ?
I am assuming he can request to see my papers.?????????
Post by: WSU on September 10, 2014, 01:17:52 PM
Post by: grundy53 on September 10, 2014, 04:01:04 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on September 10, 2014, 04:06:58 PM
After reading that it's hard to believe Cenci still has a job...with WDFW it's more likely they'll promote him.
Post by: baker5150 on September 10, 2014, 04:11:59 PM
So I am driving down a FS road. With Hunter orange on and a game officer in his truck going the other way flags me down and wants to look in my truck for loaded gun.
Legal or not?
Wants to look in my canopy. ?
I am assuming he can request to see my papers.?????????
Most people don't even know their rights. They don't know about illegal search and seizure. Most would just be polite and gladly abide to whatever the LEO asked.
The actions in the above are disgusting to me. It really gets me when people in a powerfull position abuse that power. And LEO's can be the worst. We are suppose to be able to trust them during the worst moments of our lives. And some of them pull this crap.
I have a ton of respect for what these guys and gals do. Maybe that's why it bugs me so much when I hear about the bad ones.
Post by: Bob33 on September 10, 2014, 04:16:05 PM
So I am driving down a FS road. With Hunter orange on and a game officer in his truck going the other way flags me down and wants to look in my truck for loaded gun.It is legal for him to search your vehicle if you are hunting.
Legal or not?
Wants to look in my canopy. ?
I am assuming he can request to see my papers.?????????
Post by: JimmyHoffa on September 10, 2014, 04:20:49 PM
Unless your vehicle is your 'residence' at the time, even temporary; but only the part you are 'living' in. There's some kind of clause that applies to boats/cars and their searches.So I am driving down a FS road. With Hunter orange on and a game officer in his truck going the other way flags me down and wants to look in my truck for loaded gun.It is legal for him to search your vehicle if you are hunting.
Legal or not?
Wants to look in my canopy. ?
I am assuming he can request to see my papers.?????????
Post by: WSU on September 10, 2014, 04:22:43 PM
So I am driving down a FS road. With Hunter orange on and a game officer in his truck going the other way flags me down and wants to look in my truck for loaded gun.It is legal for him to search your vehicle if you are hunting.
Legal or not?
Wants to look in my canopy. ?
I am assuming he can request to see my papers.?????????
Did you read the 9th Circuit ruling?
Post by: stevemiller on September 10, 2014, 05:04:10 PM
Post by: WSU on September 10, 2014, 05:05:07 PM
The reg book says they can if your hunting or fishing.so dont tell them your doing either.if you dont want them to.me I dont care im legal look away.have a nice day.
I encourage you to read the opinion. The reg book doesn't control whether it's legal or not.
Post by: HntnFsh on September 18, 2014, 05:09:13 AM
Post by: ballpark on September 18, 2014, 07:37:27 AM
It is legal for him to search your vehicle if you are hunting.
No it is not legal. Read the 9th District Court of Appeals decision, and all the precident quoted :tup:. The officer must have cause. Just because you are hunting does not give an officer the right to search your vehicle without a warrant. :tup:
Post by: idahohuntr on September 18, 2014, 10:04:27 AM
I thought the ruling was that Cenci et al. are not protected from lawsuits because they violated the rights of these guys, thus making them personally liable for any subsequent legal action? Even if these guys don't get fired it will be comforting to know their retirement could be ruined with huge lawsuit debts :IBCOOL:UC - I was critical of your original letter and did not think it provided merit for your claims of removal. Reading briefly the attachment, this is exactly the kind of information that I think should/could lead to some firing. I would be very curious to hear WDFW admin, Chief Crown etc. explain or condone Cenci's behavior based on this case and if/how he was/will be disciplined!!!!
Either way, I have a feeling a lot of our license dollars are going to be spent paying off the lawsuit which I am sure will be coming immediately.
Post by: bigtex on September 18, 2014, 09:47:59 PM
Some of the officers mentioned were granted qualified immunity. But the court said Chadwick and Cenci were basically free game.I thought the ruling was that Cenci et al. are not protected from lawsuits because they violated the rights of these guys, thus making them personally liable for any subsequent legal action? Even if these guys don't get fired it will be comforting to know their retirement could be ruined with huge lawsuit debts :IBCOOL:UC - I was critical of your original letter and did not think it provided merit for your claims of removal. Reading briefly the attachment, this is exactly the kind of information that I think should/could lead to some firing. I would be very curious to hear WDFW admin, Chief Crown etc. explain or condone Cenci's behavior based on this case and if/how he was/will be disciplined!!!!Either way, I have a feeling a lot of our license dollars are going to be spent paying off the lawsuit which I am sure will be coming immediately.
Now I will say most LEOs do have professional liability insurance, basically similar to malpractice insurance for doctors.
For several hundred dollars a year I get a policy which includes up to $200,000 towards legal council on administrative investigations, and $100,000 towards legal council on criminal investigations. In addition, my policy pays up to $1,000,000 or $2,000,000 (depending on the policy) in the event I am sued and found liable for a personal capacity lawsuit, commonly referred to as a constitutional tort or Bivens action. The policy will appoint an attorney to defend md in the lawsuit. The policy may also appoint coverage counsel to monitor DOJ's defense of me, or if DOJ is on the fence as to whether it will defend, the policy may hire coverage counsel to convince DOJ to provide the defense. Note: this defense amount is separate and distinct and not subject to the defense limits of the administrative and criminal provisions.
Post by: Special T on September 19, 2014, 09:30:53 AM
Apparently Ticketing a "Mentaly Slow" person fishing with a broken pole and Beef jerky taped to it arent the only questionable things he has been up to.
Post by: bigtex on September 19, 2014, 09:54:22 AM
WOW just got done reading that case summery attached to your post USWARDEN.
Apparently Ticketing a "Mentaly Slow" person fishing with a broken pole and Beef jerky taped to it arent the only questionable things he has been up to.
I think you are a little confused. The officer who cited the kid with the jerky and broken pole was current Region 4 Captain Alan Myers when he was a field officer in Clarkston. The case summary was regarding Cenci, Sgt Chadwick, and a couple other coastal WDFW LE personnel...
Post by: Special T on September 19, 2014, 09:56:41 AM
Post by: stevemiller on December 13, 2014, 01:46:11 AM
Post by: ucwarden on December 13, 2014, 08:31:35 AM
I guess it's true; you can't fight city hall (or in this case, a state agency).
Post by: KFhunter on December 13, 2014, 09:05:08 AM
Nothing. The Governor's office has never even bothered to acknowledge receipt of my letter. The WDFW Commission received my letter, but never even asked for the supporting documentation. Out of all the 50+ legislators I have contacted on one has shown any interest, but as far as I can tell nothing much has happened there either.
I guess it's true; you can't fight city hall (or in this case, a state agency).
no without a lot of media and public support
Post by: buckfvr on December 13, 2014, 09:26:11 AM
:twocents:
Post by: stevemiller on December 13, 2014, 10:17:01 AM
Post by: csaaphill on December 13, 2014, 03:13:13 PM
My opinion would mean to me becoming more about enforcing civilian law rather than game law?
and more and more centralised into enforcing unconstitutinal gun laws would this be a fair assumption?
Post by: stevemiller on December 13, 2014, 03:19:06 PM
Post by: csaaphill on December 13, 2014, 03:36:22 PM
I maybe wrong but I think you posted in the wrong thread accidentally. :yeah: :dunno:no don't think so unless this petition is way old then ya maybe. but when I clicked the link I read what the petition said and was wanting some clarification on what some of the langauge meant.
I did sign it though.
Post by: stevemiller on December 13, 2014, 03:39:12 PM
Post by: csaaphill on December 13, 2014, 04:10:58 PM
Oh ok. Sorrythe reaso I ask is because I see wardens asking for drivers license now and never had that before and then taking my/our guns while doing their check don't like that either so if this petition addresses that then ya im all for it.
Post by: returnofsid on December 13, 2014, 04:53:21 PM
Oh ok. Sorrythe reaso I ask is because I see wardens asking for drivers license now and never had that before and then taking my/our guns while doing their check don't like that either so if this petition addresses that then ya im all for it.
The title of this thread should be pretty self explanatory, in explaining the purpose of the petition. It has nothing to do with anything you've just posted.
Post by: ucwarden on December 13, 2014, 05:22:39 PM
An article in the Seattle Times (Lawsuit reflects years of bad blood between state,fishing family)Where the 9th circuit has reopened a lawsuit against them.Anything going on with this still?
I believe what you are referring to is a lawsuit, filed by a commercial fisherman, against Deputy Chief Cenci (and a few others); http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2024518462_wildlifelawsuit1xml.html (http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2024518462_wildlifelawsuit1xml.html)
Basically the 9th circuit court of appeals stated WDFW Deputy Chief Cenci violated the civil liberties of the fisherman by conducting an unlawful stop. The court's decision means that the lawsuit can go forward, and also means that Cenci has no protection of immunity.
I don't know the status of this, but assume the fisherman will certainly go full-steam ahead in suing Cenci.
Post by: ucwarden on December 13, 2014, 05:29:53 PM
I noticed it said loss of site on protecting wildlife can you specify what that means and signed!
My opinion would mean to me becoming more about enforcing civilian law rather than game law?
and more and more centralised into enforcing unconstitutinal gun laws would this be a fair assumption?
I am not sure what you mean by "loss of site on protecting wildlife". What the petition says (I wrote it) is: "THROUGH MISMANAGEMENT; DIRECTOR ANDERSON HAS ALLOWED WDFW ENFORCEMENT TO RUN OUT OF CONTROL. SENIOR OFFICERS ARE BEING FORCED OUT, PROMOTIONS AND DISCIPLINARY ACTIONS ARE UNFAIR
TOP-HEAVY MANAGEMENT IN ENFORCEMENT- NEW ADMINISTRATIVE POSITIONS ARE TAKING AWAY FROM FIELD OFFICER POSITIONS. CRONYISM PROTECTS THE FAVORED, WHILE PUNISHING THOSE NOT IN FAVOR
ENFORCEMENT HAS LOST FOCUS, AND NO LONGER PRIORITIZES WILDLIFE PROTECTION AS IT WAS IN THE PAST"
Maybe you are referring to my line of "enforcement has lost focus, and no longer prioritizes wildlife protection as it was in the past". If so, what I mean is that WDFW spends way more time and effort on activities other than catching wildlife poachers, such as; shellfish (now seems to be the most important issue), marijuana grows, and other crimes.
Post by: stevemiller on December 13, 2014, 05:30:58 PM
Post by: ucwarden on December 13, 2014, 05:37:28 PM
Oh ok. Sorrythe reaso I ask is because I see wardens asking for drivers license now and never had that before and then taking my/our guns while doing their check don't like that either so if this petition addresses that then ya im all for it.
Checking driver's license, while checking hunters and fishermen, is game wardening 101. Since hunting and fishing licenses do not have a photo of the license holder on them, and because people often borrow the licenses of others, officers need to verify that the person who presents the license is in-fact the person listed on the license.
Temporarily holding a person's firearm, while checking them, is just plain common sense. It would be pretty stupid to allow someone to hold their firearm in their hands, while an officer is determining if their behavior is legal or not (or if they have warrants for their arrest).
So I have to disagree with your position on these two issues.
Post by: ucwarden on December 13, 2014, 05:39:21 PM
Yes thats what i got out of the article as well.At least he is getting something for some of his wrong doings.Reading back on that issue it seems clear he had a vendetta with the family and was indeed using his authority to unlawfully persecute them when he loses that fight they should continue to push him to resign using the facts of that case and the people that are aware of them should be sending letters to the state about it.Keep making the noise people are listening and since this was in the the Seattle Times a lot of people will know about it now.
I hold almost no hope that the right thing will ever be done. The WDFW admin seems to be totally bulletproof. The commission is either totally disconnected, or condones their behaviors.
Post by: stevemiller on December 13, 2014, 05:46:02 PM
Post by: csaaphill on December 13, 2014, 07:40:39 PM
Post by: csaaphill on December 13, 2014, 07:49:44 PM
not holding but taking to their own rig is what I was referencing to and I've never had it happen before so what makes it common sense now?Oh ok. Sorrythe reaso I ask is because I see wardens asking for drivers license now and never had that before and then taking my/our guns while doing their check don't like that either so if this petition addresses that then ya im all for it.
Checking driver's license, while checking hunters and fishermen, is game wardening 101. Since hunting and fishing licenses do not have a photo of the license holder on them, and because people often borrow the licenses of others, officers need to verify that the person who presents the license is in-fact the person listed on the license.
Temporarily holding a person's firearm, while checking them, is just plain common sense. It would be pretty stupid to allow someone to hold their firearm in their hands, while an officer is determining if their behavior is legal or not (or if they have warrants for their arrest).
So I have to disagree with your position on these two issues.
been checked many times and never had to show a drivers license or let them disarm me especially when I unloaded it in front of them. Then ca we say no politetly then to being disamred then? especially if it's unloaded and the officer seen the person unload it?
But really never had that happen before all my life if a game warden came up to check us out all we had to show was fishing license and or huntng license.
Post by: blackdog on December 13, 2014, 08:24:17 PM
Post by: csaaphill on December 13, 2014, 10:41:14 PM
but ok ya it's good to say these people who don't want to do thier job as it should be are removed which is why I signed the petition
Post by: ucwarden on December 14, 2014, 09:06:42 AM
not holding but taking to their own rig is what I was referencing to and I've never had it happen before so what makes it common sense now?Oh ok. Sorrythe reaso I ask is because I see wardens asking for drivers license now and never had that before and then taking my/our guns while doing their check don't like that either so if this petition addresses that then ya im all for it.
Checking driver's license, while checking hunters and fishermen, is game wardening 101. Since hunting and fishing licenses do not have a photo of the license holder on them, and because people often borrow the licenses of others, officers need to verify that the person who presents the license is in-fact the person listed on the license.
Temporarily holding a person's firearm, while checking them, is just plain common sense. It would be pretty stupid to allow someone to hold their firearm in their hands, while an officer is determining if their behavior is legal or not (or if they have warrants for their arrest).
So I have to disagree with your position on these two issues.
been checked many times and never had to show a drivers license or let them disarm me especially when I unloaded it in front of them. Then ca we say no politetly then to being disamred then? especially if it's unloaded and the officer seen the person unload it?
But really never had that happen before all my life if a game warden came up to check us out all we had to show was fishing license and or huntng license.
I don't want to spend a bunch of time on this, but an officer putting your (or anyone's) firearm in their vehicle is likely just a way to make sure the contact goes safely and a way to properly care for your firearm (vs. laying it on the ground). I am sorry to disagree with you, but I will always support an officer taking proper precautions for their own safety. You might be the best person on earth, but officers who don't personally know you have no way of knowing that. Safety has to come first.
In my own personal experience, I ended up in the hospital because I once failed to follow basic officer safety precautions when dealing with a person I had no issues with on our previous 3 contacts. I assumed that since he had been cooperative and polite on the prior contacts, he was not a threat. Turns out I couldn't have been more wrong and he turned on me and attacked, causing me some pretty serious injuries. Had I treated him as I had been trained, it may have turned out much better for me.
It's too bad that law enforcement has to take such careful actions, which may offend some, but the most important thing is to go home at the end of the day.
Post by: csaaphill on December 14, 2014, 02:13:48 PM
and appreciate that. Just gona say no if I can if they insist then ok but still.
too my concerns come from I 594 you may be exempt but were not so hope you aint gona be making us do an onsight background check and or pay $ a bunch of money to get it back.
Oh hell no sorry that just dont sit well with me and hope with us for I can see this happening.
Wa just lost a lot of people over this crap I beleive some are moving as we speak thinking im one! :yeah:
Post by: ucwarden on January 07, 2015, 12:35:12 PM
Then I looked at the commissioners we have: http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/members.html (http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/members.html)
Other than a couple, the commissioners are largely made up of academics and career fisheries managers. I guess it's no wonder that I haven't heard screaming from them, when their own deputy chief states "Nobody gives a @#$ about deer and elk".
That being said, I still don't understand how they can ignore what is happening to their own agency and especially the enforcement program.
Let's all cross our fingers that the commission at least appoints a director who has the courage and drive to fix the significant problems in his or her new agency.
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 07, 2015, 12:52:03 PM
For a long time, I had trouble understanding why the WDFW commission has never responded to my letters or emails, and why they didn't request the CD of supporting documentation of my allegations against the WDFW enforcement staff. How could they ignore what is going on, especially when their job is to run WDFW? Why do they allow the enforcement program to so deeply divided?
Then I looked at the commissioners we have: http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/members.html (http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/members.html)
Other than a couple, the commissioners are largely made up of academics and career fisheries managers. I guess it's no wonder that I haven't heard screaming from them, when their own deputy chief states "Nobody gives a @#$ about deer and elk".
That being said, I still don't understand how they can ignore what is happening to their own agency and especially the enforcement program.
Let's all cross our fingers that the commission at least appoints a director who has the courage and drive to fix the significant problems in his or her new agency.
I believe they see the decline in hunting as a given and the present and future money for them is in fisheries, sport and commercial. Until the senate listens to hunters and people like you, this won't change until hunting in WA is nothing but an afterthought. The wolves will be all the game management they need.
Post by: ucwarden on January 07, 2015, 02:24:37 PM
not holding but taking to their own rig is what I was referencing to and I've never had it happen before so what makes it common sense now?Oh ok. Sorrythe reaso I ask is because I see wardens asking for drivers license now and never had that before and then taking my/our guns while doing their check don't like that either so if this petition addresses that then ya im all for it.
Checking driver's license, while checking hunters and fishermen, is game wardening 101. Since hunting and fishing licenses do not have a photo of the license holder on them, and because people often borrow the licenses of others, officers need to verify that the person who presents the license is in-fact the person listed on the license.
Temporarily holding a person's firearm, while checking them, is just plain common sense. It would be pretty stupid to allow someone to hold their firearm in their hands, while an officer is determining if their behavior is legal or not (or if they have warrants for their arrest).
So I have to disagree with your position on these two issues.
been checked many times and never had to show a drivers license or let them disarm me especially when I unloaded it in front of them. Then ca we say no politetly then to being disamred then? especially if it's unloaded and the officer seen the person unload it?
But really never had that happen before all my life if a game warden came up to check us out all we had to show was fishing license and or huntng license.
I don't want to spend a bunch of time on this, but an officer putting your (or anyone's) firearm in their vehicle is likely just a way to make sure the contact goes safely and a way to properly care for your firearm (vs. laying it on the ground). I am sorry to disagree with you, but I will always support an officer taking proper precautions for their own safety. You might be the best person on earth, but officers who don't personally know you have no way of knowing that. Safety has to come first.
In my own personal experience, I ended up in the hospital because I once failed to follow basic officer safety precautions when dealing with a person I had no issues with on our previous 3 contacts. I assumed that since he had been cooperative and polite on the prior contacts, he was not a threat. Turns out I couldn't have been more wrong and he turned on me and attacked, causing me some pretty serious injuries. Had I treated him as I had been trained, it may have turned out much better for me.
It's too bad that law enforcement has to take such careful actions, which may offend some, but the most important thing is to go home at the end of the day.
i've said it for years, if you are scared of your work, get a new job. The world needs ditch diggers, what it doesn't need is LEOs who treat law abiding citizens like criminals. Sorry, not a beleiver.
Macs B: Just one question for you; did you drive, hitchhike or take the bus to the protests in Ferguson?
You are obviously very biased against law enforcement, which I can't understand, but please don't waste anymore time directing your comments or rants to me.
Post by: WSU on January 07, 2015, 03:01:11 PM
Post by: ucwarden on January 07, 2015, 03:39:27 PM
In the past I've voluntarily unloaded my gun when contacted by a warden. I don't know if they cared or not but I thought it might put them at ease.
Thank you for a voice of reason! I am sure it is greatly appreciated, as long as you tell them what you are doing before you start to handle the firearm.
Post by: Encore 280 on January 07, 2015, 04:00:00 PM
Post by: csaaphill on January 07, 2015, 07:42:55 PM
:yeah: but not the tone but yanot holding but taking to their own rig is what I was referencing to and I've never had it happen before so what makes it common sense now?Oh ok. Sorrythe reaso I ask is because I see wardens asking for drivers license now and never had that before and then taking my/our guns while doing their check don't like that either so if this petition addresses that then ya im all for it.
Checking driver's license, while checking hunters and fishermen, is game wardening 101. Since hunting and fishing licenses do not have a photo of the license holder on them, and because people often borrow the licenses of others, officers need to verify that the person who presents the license is in-fact the person listed on the license.
Temporarily holding a person's firearm, while checking them, is just plain common sense. It would be pretty stupid to allow someone to hold their firearm in their hands, while an officer is determining if their behavior is legal or not (or if they have warrants for their arrest).
So I have to disagree with your position on these two issues.
been checked many times and never had to show a drivers license or let them disarm me especially when I unloaded it in front of them. Then ca we say no politetly then to being disamred then? especially if it's unloaded and the officer seen the person unload it?
But really never had that happen before all my life if a game warden came up to check us out all we had to show was fishing license and or huntng license.
I don't want to spend a bunch of time on this, but an officer putting your (or anyone's) firearm in their vehicle is likely just a way to make sure the contact goes safely and a way to properly care for your firearm (vs. laying it on the ground). I am sorry to disagree with you, but I will always support an officer taking proper precautions for their own safety. You might be the best person on earth, but officers who don't personally know you have no way of knowing that. Safety has to come first.
In my own personal experience, I ended up in the hospital because I once failed to follow basic officer safety precautions when dealing with a person I had no issues with on our previous 3 contacts. I assumed that since he had been cooperative and polite on the prior contacts, he was not a threat. Turns out I couldn't have been more wrong and he turned on me and attacked, causing me some pretty serious injuries. Had I treated him as I had been trained, it may have turned out much better for me.
It's too bad that law enforcement has to take such careful actions, which may offend some, but the most important thing is to go home at the end of the day.
i've said it for years, if you are scared of your work, get a new job. The world needs ditch diggers, what it doesn't need is LEOs who treat law abiding citizens like criminals. Sorry, not a beleiver.
Post by: Special T on January 21, 2015, 07:39:41 AM
Feel free to copy/ modify it to your needs
To: kirk.pearson@leg.wa.gov
Bcc: maralyn.chase@leg.wa.gov, brian.dansel@leg.wa.gov, brian.hatfield@leg.wa.gov, rosemary.mcauliffe@leg.wa.gov, judy.warnick@leg.wa.gov, mike.hewitt@leg.wa.gov
http://www.tvw.org/index.php?option=com_tvwplayer&eventID=2015011030 (http://www.tvw.org/index.php?option=com_tvwplayer&eventID=2015011030)
On Wednesday January 14th 2015 you interviewed Todd. I am happy you finally put his statements on record, but a little disappointed it took an article in the Yakima Valley herald to gain your attention. I have been following this issue for some time, and happy you are going to investigate the issues raised in Todd's Book Operation Cody.
Many of my fellow sportsmen have been disappointed in the leadership of the WDFW for some time. There seem to be endless examples of strange decisions that the department makes. Sound logic of sportsmen and the departments boots on the ground employees are often ignored. This issues goes well beyond the departments claim that Todd Vandivert is an angry disgruntled employee. The leadership culture of the WDFW is horrendously documented in Todds accounts. This is not an isolated account. I have heard it said that "Attitude is a Reflection of Leadership."
2013 WA State Dept. of Personnel “State Employee Survey” WDFW only had one agency with lower “General Satisfaction” survey results, and WDFW scored 3rd lowest in “Customer feedback used” (including Dept. of Corrections “customers”), and tied for 2nd worst in employees “Treated with respect”.
I have been asked by some one I know at the department to make my concerns known. This person does not speak out for fear of retaliation. Please do not think that the new WDFW Director will be able to solve these problems by himself. Please investigate this matter and move to correct the poor decisions that management has made.
Special T
Post by: Knocker of rocks on January 21, 2015, 08:13:43 AM
To: kirk.pearson@leg.wa.gov
Bcc: maralyn.chase@leg.wa.gov, brian.dansel@leg.wa.gov, brian.hatfield@leg.wa.gov, rosemary.mcauliffe@leg.wa.gov, judy.warnick@leg.wa.gov, mike.hewitt@leg.wa.gov
http://www.tvw.org/index.php?option=com_tvwplayer&eventID=2015011030 (http://www.tvw.org/index.php?option=com_tvwplayer&eventID=2015011030)
On Wednesday January 14th 2015 you interviewed Todd. I am happy you finally put his statements on record, but a little disappointed it took an article in the Yakima Valley herald to gain your attention. I have been following this issue for some time, and happy you are going to investigate the issues raised in Todd's Book Operation Cody.
Many of my fellow sportsmen have been disappointed in the leadership of the WDFW for some time. There seem to be endless examples of strange decisions that the department makes. Sound logic of sportsmen and the departments boots on the ground employees are often ignored. This issues goes well beyond the departments claim that Todd Vandivert is an angry disgruntled employee. The leadership culture of the WDFW is horrendously documented in Todds accounts. This is not an isolated account. I have heard it said that "Attitude is a Reflection of Leadership."
2013 WA State Dept. of Personnel “State Employee Survey” WDFW only had one agency with lower “General Satisfaction” survey results, and WDFW scored 3rd lowest in “Customer feedback used” (including Dept. of Corrections “customers”), and tied for 2nd worst in employees “Treated with respect”.
I have been asked by some one I know at the department to make my concerns known. This person does not speak out for fear of retaliation. Please do not think that the new WDFW Director will be able to solve these problems by himself. Please investigate this matter and move to correct the poor decisions that management has made.
Special T
1) Who "Todd" is needs to be clarified, you don't want to make the reader do research about this "Todd".
2) Second hand hearsay and allegation have no part in a letter an individual is writing to the legislature. Make this about the writer.
Post by: Dan-o on January 21, 2015, 08:38:48 AM
not holding but taking to their own rig is what I was referencing to and I've never had it happen before so what makes it common sense now?Oh ok. Sorrythe reaso I ask is because I see wardens asking for drivers license now and never had that before and then taking my/our guns while doing their check don't like that either so if this petition addresses that then ya im all for it.
Checking driver's license, while checking hunters and fishermen, is game wardening 101. Since hunting and fishing licenses do not have a photo of the license holder on them, and because people often borrow the licenses of others, officers need to verify that the person who presents the license is in-fact the person listed on the license.
Temporarily holding a person's firearm, while checking them, is just plain common sense. It would be pretty stupid to allow someone to hold their firearm in their hands, while an officer is determining if their behavior is legal or not (or if they have warrants for their arrest).
So I have to disagree with your position on these two issues.
been checked many times and never had to show a drivers license or let them disarm me especially when I unloaded it in front of them. Then ca we say no politetly then to being disamred then? especially if it's unloaded and the officer seen the person unload it?
But really never had that happen before all my life if a game warden came up to check us out all we had to show was fishing license and or huntng license.
I don't want to spend a bunch of time on this, but an officer putting your (or anyone's) firearm in their vehicle is likely just a way to make sure the contact goes safely and a way to properly care for your firearm (vs. laying it on the ground). I am sorry to disagree with you, but I will always support an officer taking proper precautions for their own safety. You might be the best person on earth, but officers who don't personally know you have no way of knowing that. Safety has to come first.
In my own personal experience, I ended up in the hospital because I once failed to follow basic officer safety precautions when dealing with a person I had no issues with on our previous 3 contacts. I assumed that since he had been cooperative and polite on the prior contacts, he was not a threat. Turns out I couldn't have been more wrong and he turned on me and attacked, causing me some pretty serious injuries. Had I treated him as I had been trained, it may have turned out much better for me.
It's too bad that law enforcement has to take such careful actions, which may offend some, but the most important thing is to go home at the end of the day.
i've said it for years, if you are scared of your work, get a new job. The world needs ditch diggers, what it doesn't need is LEOs who treat law abiding citizens like criminals. Sorry, not a beleiver.
Mac B your comment is nonsense.
You sound like you want LEOs to just put themselves in the line of fire and take it.......
Post by: Special T on January 21, 2015, 08:49:37 AM
That last portion may be hearsay but it came from someone I do know and have had a conversation with. I did cite the stellar record the departments has with its own employees. If my comments take away from the letter feel thats too bad, and unless youhave had a similar conversation with a department employee dont include it. Kirk pearson is MY represeantaive and i have discussed this, and other issues with him before.
Post by: Man Tracker on January 21, 2015, 09:37:41 AM
Post by: ucwarden on January 21, 2015, 03:31:53 PM
A letter I Formulated to Send to the Parks and natural resource committee in light of the interview Todd did recently
Feel free to copy/ modify it to your needs
To: kirk.pearson@leg.wa.gov
Bcc: maralyn.chase@leg.wa.gov, brian.dansel@leg.wa.gov, brian.hatfield@leg.wa.gov, rosemary.mcauliffe@leg.wa.gov, judy.warnick@leg.wa.gov, mike.hewitt@leg.wa.gov
http://www.tvw.org/index.php?option=com_tvwplayer&eventID=2015011030 (http://www.tvw.org/index.php?option=com_tvwplayer&eventID=2015011030)
On Wednesday January 14th 2015 you interviewed Todd. I am happy you finally put his statements on record, but a little disappointed it took an article in the Yakima Valley herald to gain your attention. I have been following this issue for some time, and happy you are going to investigate the issues raised in Todd's Book Operation Cody.
Many of my fellow sportsmen have been disappointed in the leadership of the WDFW for some time. There seem to be endless examples of strange decisions that the department makes. Sound logic of sportsmen and the departments boots on the ground employees are often ignored. This issues goes well beyond the departments claim that Todd Vandivert is an angry disgruntled employee. The leadership culture of the WDFW is horrendously documented in Todds accounts. This is not an isolated account. I have heard it said that "Attitude is a Reflection of Leadership."
2013 WA State Dept. of Personnel “State Employee Survey” WDFW only had one agency with lower “General Satisfaction” survey results, and WDFW scored 3rd lowest in “Customer feedback used” (including Dept. of Corrections “customers”), and tied for 2nd worst in employees “Treated with respect”.
I have been asked by some one I know at the department to make my concerns known. This person does not speak out for fear of retaliation. Please do not think that the new WDFW Director will be able to solve these problems by himself. Please investigate this matter and move to correct the poor decisions that management has made.
Special T
Special T:
I first want to thank you for taking the time to express you thoughts and support. That means a lot.
One thing I do want to clarify is that Senators Pearson and Hewitt have been on this (paying attention and coordinating with me) before the articles came out in the paper. The news articles certainly got everyone's attention, an put this into high-gear, but it would be inaccurate to say that nobody paid attention until the articles came out.
Great job and many of our officers appreciate everyone's efforts (some aren't too happy about it).
Post by: Special T on January 21, 2015, 03:56:25 PM
Post by: dscubame on January 21, 2015, 06:45:35 PM
Don't pay macsb no never mind, he's probably pissed cuz he can't get a descent job and has to dig ditches. :chuckle:
well danny the world needs ditch diggers too
Post by: trophyhunt on January 21, 2015, 07:14:25 PM
Hey now, I work in the mud!!!Don't pay macsb no never mind, he's probably pissed cuz he can't get a descent job and has to dig ditches. :chuckle:
well danny the world needs ditch diggers too
Post by: ucwarden on January 21, 2015, 08:03:14 PM
Since he is MY rep in MY dist I was disapointed. The wheels of government soemtimes move too slow correcting its own mistakes. I have corresponded with him a couple of times on this issue and Im certain that my name is at least familuar with his staff. He is a good man who is doing a good job. Since I vote for him i think i have the ability to provide at least a small criticism. He gets plenty of praise from me when he does good things. I belive in the carrot AND the stick.
Good enough. I just wanted to make sure you understood he really is doing something.
Post by: Special T on January 21, 2015, 08:17:39 PM
Post by: ctwiggs1 on January 22, 2015, 09:25:05 AM
not holding but taking to their own rig is what I was referencing to and I've never had it happen before so what makes it common sense now?Oh ok. Sorrythe reaso I ask is because I see wardens asking for drivers license now and never had that before and then taking my/our guns while doing their check don't like that either so if this petition addresses that then ya im all for it.
Checking driver's license, while checking hunters and fishermen, is game wardening 101. Since hunting and fishing licenses do not have a photo of the license holder on them, and because people often borrow the licenses of others, officers need to verify that the person who presents the license is in-fact the person listed on the license.
Temporarily holding a person's firearm, while checking them, is just plain common sense. It would be pretty stupid to allow someone to hold their firearm in their hands, while an officer is determining if their behavior is legal or not (or if they have warrants for their arrest).
So I have to disagree with your position on these two issues.
been checked many times and never had to show a drivers license or let them disarm me especially when I unloaded it in front of them. Then ca we say no politetly then to being disamred then? especially if it's unloaded and the officer seen the person unload it?
But really never had that happen before all my life if a game warden came up to check us out all we had to show was fishing license and or huntng license.
I don't want to spend a bunch of time on this, but an officer putting your (or anyone's) firearm in their vehicle is likely just a way to make sure the contact goes safely and a way to properly care for your firearm (vs. laying it on the ground). I am sorry to disagree with you, but I will always support an officer taking proper precautions for their own safety. You might be the best person on earth, but officers who don't personally know you have no way of knowing that. Safety has to come first.
In my own personal experience, I ended up in the hospital because I once failed to follow basic officer safety precautions when dealing with a person I had no issues with on our previous 3 contacts. I assumed that since he had been cooperative and polite on the prior contacts, he was not a threat. Turns out I couldn't have been more wrong and he turned on me and attacked, causing me some pretty serious injuries. Had I treated him as I had been trained, it may have turned out much better for me.
It's too bad that law enforcement has to take such careful actions, which may offend some, but the most important thing is to go home at the end of the day.
i've said it for years, if you are scared of your work, get a new job. The world needs ditch diggers, what it doesn't need is LEOs who treat law abiding citizens like criminals. Sorry, not a beleiver.
Mac B your comment is nonsense.
You sound like you want LEOs to just put themselves in the line of fire and take it.......
The basis of my comment was not to belittle LEOs, quite the contrary. In nearly thirty years of active military service I came across similar attitudes in young soldiers and old scared ones alike. It boggles my mind that any soldier who enlists or serves during war time, will then complain about combat deployments and the dangers associated with it. Granted it sucks but it is what you signed up for.
These LEOs voluntarily took a job that may occasionally put them in real danger. Why is this a surprise? Did you apply for a cop job expecting to not have to assume danger? Is it justifiable in your mind to project that fear onto the average citizen contact, when statistics clearly show there is very little risk associated with day to day LEO operations?
((1996-2009 USA, 771 Law Enforcement Officers murdered in the line of duty, according to the FBI in 2012 to put that into perspective there are an estimated 1.34 million sworn LEOs in the US in 2010 the average number of LEO deaths was 53 per year or roughly 4 per 100,000 LEOs) ) that number pales in comparison to the 126 per 100,000 commercial fishermen who die on the job annually or the 128 per 100,000 loggers who die on the job annually))
Top Ten Most Dangerous Jobs in the USA According to FORBES Magazine:
1. Logging workers
2. Fishers and related fishing workers
3. Aircraft pilot and flight engineers
4. Roofers
5. Structural iron and steel workers
6. Refuse and recyclable material collectors
7. Electrical power-line installers and repairers
8. Drivers/sales workers and truck drivers
9. Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers
10. Construction laborers
SOURCE: http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/03/15/dying-for-a-paycheck-these-jobs-are-more-dangerous.aspx. (http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/03/15/dying-for-a-paycheck-these-jobs-are-more-dangerous.aspx.))
Forbes Magazine http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacquelynsmith/2013/08/22/americas-10-deadliest-jobs-2/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacquelynsmith/2013/08/22/americas-10-deadliest-jobs-2/)
That being the case if you are so concerned for your safety that you “just want to get home at night” then change careers. Your not obligated to the police force. You hold no enlistment, no sacred duty. It’s a job if it scares you change it. My experience has always been that many LEOs are quite happy with their work, they handle the stress of it quite well. There is however a percentage that feels like they are lucky to make it home at night. These are the same people who in my opinion justify treating all contacts with citizens as if their life was on the line. It’s not meant to detract from what you do, its meant to be an honest opinion from someone who spent nearly thirty years doing a job that many people considered to be terribly dangerous, but in reality wasn’t.
These statistics are junk. I've read them before and it's just bad journalism.
They don't include L&I or similar agency-type violations. In the military, we don't have "ADs", we ONLY have "NDs". Typically, a "negligent" related death on the civilian side of things is still considered an "accident".
Also, if you narrow down "military", to "soldiers who participated in combat missions in Iraq or Afghanistan between 2002-2012", I think we both know these numbers would change drastically.
Curtis
Post by: ctwiggs1 on January 22, 2015, 09:47:49 AM
Just for information sake the number of US military personnel killed in combat between 2002-present is 52.3 per 100,000 annually. A very high number but still not in the top three in the US.
Again, are you saying number killed per number deployed to combat operations? Or are you saying total military?
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 22, 2015, 10:04:54 AM
Just combat. For all military is much lower. Actually, young people have a lower rate since about 2000 in the military than outside of it as a civilian.Just for information sake the number of US military personnel killed in combat between 2002-present is 52.3 per 100,000 annually. A very high number but still not in the top three in the US.
Again, are you saying number killed per number deployed to combat operations? Or are you saying total military?
Post by: ctwiggs1 on January 22, 2015, 10:17:10 AM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 22, 2015, 10:33:24 AM
Can you guys post your source on that stat?I'll look around for the stats, but it really boiled down to young males in the civilian world are wilder and crazier than when in a controlled environment like that in the military. They take a lot more risks, more likely to be involved in traffic, drowning, drinking, risky jobs, etc. Don't forget you have to count that age range includes lots of things like gang bangers, drug overdoses, terminally ill and suicides in the civilian side.
Post by: ctwiggs1 on January 22, 2015, 11:00:14 AM
Remember too, none of this is actually relevant to the discussion at hand. I cited the US Army as an example of a job perceived to be more dangerous than it was, nothing more.
If you apply the logic to other career fields you will find that there are far more dangerous jobs out there than military or Law Enforcement. Hence my supposed "attitude" about LEOs who act like every law abiding citizen out there is a threat. The numbers don't support it, the FBI doesn't report it that way, and simple math proves it.
Every job has its advantages and disadvantages. If one of the disadvantages of your JOB as a LEO is that you are scared day in and day out of getting killed then in my opinion you need to look for something new. Lifes too short to spend it ducking everytime you here a bang.
My ditch digging comment wasn't meant as a disparaging comment to cops, but a justification that any work is honorable.
And I'm telling you that I think the numbers that make up the substance of your argument are off base.
Let me give you an example: I know of less than 10 wildlife officers who have spent more than a day or two patrolling my hunting area. One of them was killed 20 years ago in the line of duty. That means that in my area, ~10% of wildlife officers are killed in the line of duty. Since WDFW employs 144 Game Wardens, I'll assume they did 20 years ago as well (probably less but bear with me). That year, WDFW lost .7% of their Game Wardens. If that number were applied to the military, it's the equivalent of us losing 14,000 troops in one year alone (based off a rough military estimate size of 2M).
See how you can use stats to form BS statements?
Curtis
Post by: singleshot12 on January 22, 2015, 11:48:12 AM
For a long time, I had trouble understanding why the WDFW commission has never responded to my letters or emails, and why they didn't request the CD of supporting documentation of my allegations against the WDFW enforcement staff. How could they ignore what is going on, especially when their job is to run WDFW? Why do they allow the enforcement program to so deeply divided?
Then I looked at the commissioners we have: http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/members.html (http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/members.html)
Other than a couple, the commissioners are largely made up of academics and career fisheries managers. I guess it's no wonder that I haven't heard screaming from them, when their own deputy chief states "Nobody gives a @#$ about deer and elk".
That being said, I still don't understand how they can ignore what is happening to their own agency and especially the enforcement program.
Let's all cross our fingers that the commission at least appoints a director who has the courage and drive to fix the significant problems in his or her new agency.
I believe they see the decline in hunting as a given and the present and future money for them is in fisheries, sport and commercial. Until the senate listens to hunters and people like you, this won't change until hunting in WA is nothing but an afterthought. The wolves will be all the game management they need.
:yeah:
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on January 22, 2015, 07:18:45 PM
Remember too, none of this is actually relevant to the discussion at hand. I cited the US Army as an example of a job perceived to be more dangerous than it was, nothing more.
If you apply the logic to other career fields you will find that there are far more dangerous jobs out there than military or Law Enforcement. Hence my supposed "attitude" about LEOs who act like every law abiding citizen out there is a threat. The numbers don't support it, the FBI doesn't report it that way, and simple math proves it.
Every job has its advantages and disadvantages. If one of the disadvantages of your JOB as a LEO is that you are scared day in and day out of getting killed then in my opinion you need to look for something new. Lifes too short to spend it ducking everytime you here a bang.
My ditch digging comment wasn't meant as a disparaging comment to cops, but a justification that any work is honorable.
And I'm telling you that I think the numbers that make up the substance of your argument are off base.
Let me give you an example: I know of less than 10 wildlife officers who have spent more than a day or two patrolling my hunting area. One of them was killed 20 years ago in the line of duty. That means that in my area, ~10% of wildlife officers are killed in the line of duty. Since WDFW employs 144 Game Wardens, I'll assume they did 20 years ago as well (probably less but bear with me). That year, WDFW lost .7% of their Game Wardens. If that number were applied to the military, it's the equivalent of us losing 14,000 troops in one year alone (based off a rough military estimate size of 2M).
See how you can use stats to form BS statements?
Curtis
Your math is off. It would be correct, but could be an anomaly if your figures were from just one year. The problem is one of anything is too small of a sample to be reliable. Say you knew one guy who sky dives and he dies because his chute didn't open. You cant extrapolate that out to 100% of sky divers are going to die.
But here's your math error. One guy out of 10 died one year, but zero died in the other 19 years. Job danger is figured by deaths per hundred thousand per year. Times 10 guys by 20 years and you have 1 death per 200 man years. That works out to 500 deaths per 100,000 man years. But the one guy you knew who died may have been the only guy out of 144 (your example) who died in the 20 years. That would make the death rate 35 per 100,000. And that is about double the actual death rate of law enforcement officers which is about 18 per 100,000 which incidentally is only #10 but well above average on the list of most dangerous jobs. My job of commercial fisherman still leads that category with 116 fatalities per 100,000 workers.
Post by: ucwarden on January 29, 2015, 09:15:11 AM
Thanks to all of you for your support!
Post by: ucwarden on January 29, 2015, 07:38:48 PM
Thanks to all of you for your support!
Post by: Rainier10 on January 30, 2015, 07:51:11 AM
Here is the list of committee members that I sent my email to saying that I want them to look more into Todd Vandivert's testimony from January 14th and claims from his book, Operation Cody, about the WDFW administration and lack of focus on big game poaching violations. I asked them to put more emphasis on enforcement and prosecution of these crimes.
To: kirk.pearson@leg.wa.gov
Bcc: maralyn.chase@leg.wa.gov, brian.dansel@leg.wa.gov, brian.hatfield@leg.wa.gov, rosemary.mcauliffe@leg.wa.gov, judy.warnick@leg.wa.gov, mike.hewitt@leg.wa.gov
Post by: ucwarden on February 09, 2015, 07:05:11 PM
Post by: Windwalker on February 10, 2015, 05:16:23 PM
The Whidbey Times picked it up.
Looks like a copy and paste of the other.
http://www.whidbeynewstimes.com/news/291415431.html?utm_source=Whidbey+News-Times&utm_campaign=40acf29aed-Newsletter_Daily_Update_PM&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_eafb5dd750-40acf29aed-228619993 (http://www.whidbeynewstimes.com/news/291415431.html?utm_source=Whidbey+News-Times&utm_campaign=40acf29aed-Newsletter_Daily_Update_PM&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_eafb5dd750-40acf29aed-228619993)
Post by: ucwarden on February 11, 2015, 08:18:17 AM
So,I guess nothing yet but at least the right people are gonna look into it more?
Yep, the ball is now in the new director's court
Post by: ELKBURGER on February 12, 2015, 08:36:33 AM
The new director has got himself an overflowing plate. I hope he is up to the challenge.So,I guess nothing yet but at least the right people are gonna look into it more?
Yep, the ball is now in the new director's court
Post by: ucwarden on February 12, 2015, 08:39:34 AM
The new director has got himself an overflowing plate. I hope he is up to the challenge.So,I guess nothing yet but at least the right people are gonna look into it more?
Yep, the ball is now in the new director's court
I am sure he did a bit of homework before he took the position, so none of this is a shock to him. I just keep waiting to see what he will do with the enforcement mess, but the waiting is tough.
Post by: tonymiller7 on February 12, 2015, 10:32:52 AM
Post by: ucwarden on May 08, 2015, 04:25:25 PM
Unfortunately, my excitement was crushed in minutes, when the investigators advised me that WDFW Deputy Director Joe Stohr (who was put in charge of the investigation by Director Unsworth) had limited the scope of the investigation to Operation Cody and the investigation conducted in March 2013 (by Seattle private attorney Amy Stephson) of Deputy Chief Cenci.
While both of those things need to be fully investigated, the limitations put on the investigation means that WSP is not even allowed to investigate the vast majority of the 10 pages of allegations in the letter sent out to the legislature. It also means they can't investigate anything newer than March 2013; so anything that Chief Crown or several other enforcement administrators have been accused of, they get a free pass on.
If you would like to see all of the allegations of corruption and wrong-doing investigated (rather than just the older limited one's) please call or email Director Unsworth and insist they fully and completely investigate any and all allegations of wrong-doing by WDFW enforcement administrators!!! His email address is: jim.unsworth@dfw.wa.gov His phone number is: 360-902-2225
Post by: Special T on May 08, 2015, 04:41:14 PM
Post by: ucwarden on May 08, 2015, 04:47:27 PM
:bash:
So Special T, did I convince you to call or email Unsworth? Hopefully
Post by: MtnMuley on May 08, 2015, 04:58:16 PM
Post by: 2labs on May 08, 2015, 05:06:16 PM
Post by: ucwarden on May 08, 2015, 05:16:48 PM
Utterly pathetic. Pitiful. What a disgrace. I will call and spread the word. Thanks for all the hard work UC.
Thank you very much. It is totally hypocritical that if a citizen makes a complaint against an officer, it has to be investigated by policy. But it has taken me two+ years to even getting close to a fair and complete investigation of those who supervise the officers. Incredible and sickening.
Post by: ucwarden on May 08, 2015, 05:18:36 PM
The untouchables, I read your book and it was sickening. Cenci should not only be fired, but be brought up on charges.
Thanks. Can I count on you contacting Unsworth and demanding a full investigation of all allegations brought forward about the enforcement administration?
Post by: 2labs on May 08, 2015, 05:34:34 PM
The untouchables, I read your book and it was sickening. Cenci should not only be fired, but be brought up on charges.
Thanks. Can I count on you contacting Unsworth and demanding a full investigation of all allegations brought forward about the enforcement administration?
I will this evening! I sent a red hot E-Mail after reading your book! I Could be on a Wa.gov watch list?
Post by: ucwarden on May 08, 2015, 06:00:40 PM
The untouchables, I read your book and it was sickening. Cenci should not only be fired, but be brought up on charges.
Thanks. Can I count on you contacting Unsworth and demanding a full investigation of all allegations brought forward about the enforcement administration?
Thanks and get everyone you know to do the same.
I will this evening! I sent a red hot E-Mail after reading your book! I Could be on a Wa.gov watch list?
Post by: trophyhunt on May 08, 2015, 07:38:32 PM
Post by: ucwarden on May 08, 2015, 08:26:47 PM
Email sent, I hope they don't pull my name from the drawing!!
Thanks!
Post by: HntnFsh on May 08, 2015, 08:33:28 PM
Post by: ucwarden on May 09, 2015, 06:32:14 AM
That is friggin disgusting!
That pretty much sums it up. Please call or email Unsworth and tell him to do what is right!!!!!
Post by: Gringo31 on May 11, 2015, 12:17:33 PM
Free Bump....lets get make some noise to keep nothing from being swept under the rug!
Post by: trophyhunt on May 11, 2015, 12:42:41 PM
Post by: SnakeEyes on May 11, 2015, 01:10:33 PM
Post by: ucwarden on May 12, 2015, 08:43:51 AM
Post by: SnakeEyes on May 12, 2015, 11:50:59 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on May 12, 2015, 11:51:22 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on May 12, 2015, 11:52:05 AM
Post by: ucwarden on May 12, 2015, 12:40:28 PM
He is not going to investigate all of the allegations in my letter (stating the huge cost of such investigations), but has added most of the critical allegations into the investigation.
THANKS TO ALL OF YOUR SUPPORT, THIS INVESTIGATION IS GOING FORWARD!!!!!!
Post by: Special T on May 12, 2015, 12:45:31 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on May 12, 2015, 12:49:39 PM
Post by: pd on May 12, 2015, 12:59:28 PM
The new director is no fool, and will watch his ways in Olympia very cautiously. So don't get your hopes up too high. However, progress in WDFW is going in the right direction. I--for one--am very pleased with Mr. Unsworth.
Good work, UCWarden!
Post by: ctwiggs1 on May 12, 2015, 01:13:13 PM
Post by: Gringo31 on May 12, 2015, 01:23:19 PM
His reply to me was this...
Quote
I have received your e-mail.
Jim
I'm slightly optimistic!
Post by: trophyhunt on May 12, 2015, 01:25:52 PM
Post by: ucwarden on May 12, 2015, 08:27:30 PM
That is great news!! Nice to see some action for all your efforts, I'm going to send him a thank you e mail! Thanks for keeping this important issue rolling, good job you guys!
That would be great. Thanks
Post by: ucwarden on May 12, 2015, 08:28:53 PM
Wow, UCWarden. The Director called you on this? Amazing.
The new director is no fool, and will watch his ways in Olympia very cautiously. So don't get your hopes up too high. However, progress in WDFW is going in the right direction. I--for one--am very pleased with Mr. Unsworth.
Good work, UCWarden!
It's one step at a time. As long as the steps are in the right direction, I will take them!
Thanks
Post by: ucwarden on May 12, 2015, 08:32:12 PM
I have mixed emotions about this. When these d bags get tossed to the wolves, does that mean ucwarden is leaving us???
You know, when I started this campaign to clean house, I had never seen a chat or forum and didn't much like it. Over the last several months I have found a lot of support from a lot of good people on here, so no; I am not going anywhere. Just remember that if you ever need me, just email me: ucwarden@gmail.com and tell me to log on hunting-Washington.....I will be there. Thanks
Post by: HntnFsh on May 12, 2015, 08:52:36 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on May 12, 2015, 10:20:15 PM
UC - I don't know anything about WA state employment...can Unsworth just fire Cenci if he sees enough evidence to have concerns about the guy? Or is it a fairly rigorous process to fire a guy like that? Seems like so many times I've read in the paper about cops being so protected by unions that even when they've have done many blatant unethical or illegal acts they still don't get fired. In Idaho Unsworth could fire this guy on the spot...in WA, probably not so easy. :dunno:
Post by: mfswallace on May 12, 2015, 10:30:33 PM
Let's see more movement on actually doing something about wolves and see if he keeps grizzlies out of our state!!
Post by: ucwarden on May 13, 2015, 07:37:42 AM
More indication Unsworth is the right man for the job!
UC - I don't know anything about WA state employment...can Unsworth just fire Cenci if he sees enough evidence to have concerns about the guy? Or is it a fairly rigorous process to fire a guy like that? Seems like so many times I've read in the paper about cops being so protected by unions that even when they've have done many blatant unethical or illegal acts they still don't get fired. In Idaho Unsworth could fire this guy on the spot...in WA, probably not so easy. :dunno:
I am not certain. My understanding is that everyone from Lt. up the chain is in "executive mngt." and therefore are at will employees and can be cut at any time. The question then is; who can cut them? I suspect the director can cut the chief, the chief can cut the deputy chief, and so on.
Post by: Jonathan_S on May 13, 2015, 07:54:52 AM
Let's see more movement on actually doing something about wolves and see if he keeps grizzlies out of our state!!
Every good thing is a good thing. Doesn't hurt to accept small wins once in a while. Nothing is going to happen quickly wolf-wise and Grizz have been here for a very long time and aren't on the precipice of population explosion.
Post by: HntnFsh on May 13, 2015, 08:12:40 AM
Post by: ucwarden on May 14, 2015, 05:49:48 AM
UC, I would assume WSP would be about as unbiased as you can get. Are your thoughts the same? What kind of time frame for this. Seems like they always take a year or two. Does WSP just do the investigation and send Unsworth a report. Who else would get a report? Do they make any recommendations based on their findings?
Yes, I too believe WSP is neutral and will do a great job. They told me to expect it to take 3 to 4 months, and in the end they don't present a recommendation to Unsworth, just a report. It will then be up to Unsworth to decide what to do with the findings of the report.
Post by: turbo on May 14, 2015, 09:53:17 AM
I really respect you guys putting it all on the line by getting involved while still employed. Very brave! You guys have real risk here and I hope it works out to be a positive experience. You guys are hero's!
I'm a letter writer/pain in the butt with our legislatures but this one scares me. I don't have a lot of trust in the system right now and the people running it. Seems they can do what the want with zero consequences.
Thanks UCWarden and BigTex and others for all of the detail. I do want to say that every experience I have had with field officers has been very positive, I know there are some really bad people in the "system" but there are some really good one's too. Lets take out the trash!
Post by: Skillet on May 14, 2015, 10:14:23 AM
There are times in life that self-interest must be weighed against doing the right thing. I think this is one of those times that we must make that decision for each one of us. I think very highly of the general ethical fortitude of the people on this board, and I believe if each of us thinks about what we will tell our children about the decision we made about this issue, it will be easy to follow through with making our individual voices heard to Director Unsworth and others. We must stand up to hold these people accountable in spite of the fear of retaliation. Not doing so is being complicit in their abuse of power - and undermining the efforts of those who do risk attracting the unwanted attention of those that can retaliate in some way.
:twocents:
Post by: turbo on May 14, 2015, 10:53:27 AM
It's a lot different than me telling my hunting 14 hunting buddys whom have zero knowledge of this BTW, to sign petitions, send letter and risk draws. Your right, we need to support the cause and I plan to inform my group and get involved. Thanks!
Post by: Skillet on May 14, 2015, 11:30:57 AM
Thank you for spreading the word and sending in that letter. I honestly don't think that you're risking a chance at a draw. That is a mathematical process and can be objectively scrutinized. What I do believe you are risking is making it onto an unofficial list of people that might get a little extra attention during a field contact if you're approached by one of the corrupt or their cronies. It is my opinion that the longer that list is, the less chance anyone person on it will be on the receiving end of unlawful or unethical treatment by the corrupt within WDFW. At some point the corrupt enforcement officers will realize they can no longer rule via harassment and intimidation.
Everybody that I talk to about this, hunter and non-hunter alike, always respond with the same thing - "Are you kidding me??" It is sad, but we are not kidding. This rock needs to be turned over and the corrupt creatures that hide under it stomped out.
Post by: Special T on May 14, 2015, 01:11:26 PM
Post by: bearpaw on May 16, 2015, 12:29:33 PM
Let's see more movement on actually doing something about wolves and see if he keeps grizzlies out of our state!!
Every good thing is a good thing. Doesn't hurt to accept small wins once in a while. Nothing is going to happen quickly wolf-wise and Grizz have been here for a very long time and aren't on the precipice of population explosion.
:yeah: x2
Grizzlies have been here a long time, wolves are a part of the landscape now, what's important is how we manage them going forward!
I agree with Idahohntr, I think Unsworth was by far the best man for the job, his actions thus far are not letting us down! :tup:
ucwarden congratulations, this effort is making some headway! :tup:
Post by: HntnFsh on July 02, 2015, 05:28:13 AM
Post by: ucwarden on July 02, 2015, 07:38:42 AM
Just thought I would check in to see if UC warden has gotten any feedback into the investigation?
Not a whole lot. I know the investigation is still going full speed, and I know they are still conducting interviews, but those being interviewed are asked to not discuss their testimony with others (as it should be). I expect the interviews to continue through most of July, then am guessing this will all be wrapped up by mid-August, but that is just a guess.
Post by: MtnMuley on July 02, 2015, 07:54:45 AM
Post by: HntnFsh on July 02, 2015, 01:59:53 PM
Post by: ucwarden on July 03, 2015, 05:52:48 AM
Thank you for the update U.C. I appreciate it. Hard to be patient. But not much else we can do!
If you think it's hard for you and I to be patient (on the outside) think what it is like for the land officers working under this administration; many of them can't wait for this all to be resolved.
Post by: HntnFsh on August 14, 2015, 11:38:26 AM
Post by: Man Tracker on August 14, 2015, 09:56:21 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on August 16, 2015, 09:59:14 PM
Post by: HntnFsh on August 17, 2015, 05:39:43 AM
WSP investigation is wrapping up. They will complete a report and forward to Director Unsworth. Upon completion, it should be available to the public. By Public Disclosure Request if no other way. Rumor has it the report will be ....
Nothing like leaving us hanging! :chuckle:
Post by: finnman on September 10, 2015, 09:27:22 PM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on September 11, 2015, 07:14:00 AM
AND?????
I think August 14th was a second ago in official investigation time
Post by: ctwiggs1 on September 11, 2015, 07:18:50 AM
AND?????
I think August 14th was a second ago in official investigation time
Surely they've filled their coffee cups by now and opened up their legal pads.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on September 11, 2015, 07:25:22 AM
AND?????
I think August 14th was a second ago in official investigation time
Surely they've filled their coffee cups by now and opened up their legal pads.
Probably. And they may even be done with the majority of their investigation and preliminary reports. But that is a long way from the final report to the public, the executive, department and legislature.
Post by: trophyhunt on September 14, 2015, 05:41:19 AM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on September 14, 2015, 07:29:43 AM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on September 17, 2015, 08:53:30 PM
Post by: Man Tracker on September 19, 2015, 08:13:43 AM
Post by: HntnFsh on September 19, 2015, 02:00:27 PM
Post by: HntnFsh on September 28, 2015, 05:45:53 AM
Post by: Curly on September 28, 2015, 06:32:18 AM
Wasn't Cenci just on the new Rugged Justice the other day ?
That was last year's show.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on September 28, 2015, 07:11:58 AM
Wasn't Cenci just on the new Rugged Justice the other day ?
That was last year's show.
He looked like a guy who should be fired....kinda arrogant.
Post by: Skyhigh on October 07, 2015, 03:44:45 PM
Post by: ucwarden on October 07, 2015, 03:55:11 PM
For documents and updated information check out:
www.wdfwinvestigation.com (http://www.wdfwinvestigation.com)
Post by: Gamblin Guy on October 07, 2015, 04:35:01 PM
Post by: Tbar on October 07, 2015, 04:45:17 PM
I have a feeling that next week there will be some news after a certain arbitration hearing is cleared up.Did someone get reinstated?
Post by: ucwarden on October 07, 2015, 06:54:21 PM
What Skyhigh is talking about is the arbitration hearing for Officer Dave Jones, who was fired by these guys. Dave is right now in the middle of his hearing. We likely won't know the outcome for several weeks, but the WSP investigation should be causing a bit of strife in the meantime. After what the WDFW enforcement admin has done to a whole lot of great officers, I'm not feeling to sorry for them right now.I have a feeling that next week there will be some news after a certain arbitration hearing is cleared up.Did someone get reinstated?
Post by: 3nails on October 07, 2015, 07:07:37 PM
Post by: Tbar on October 07, 2015, 07:09:40 PM
Post by: ucwarden on October 07, 2015, 07:15:21 PM
I'm sure hoping to get Jones back! Dude is for real.If life is at all fair, Dave will get his job (and back-pay) back about the time Cenci and company are sent packing. Cross your fingers.
Post by: HntnFsh on October 07, 2015, 07:43:33 PM
Post by: ucwarden on October 07, 2015, 07:48:44 PM
I really appreciate the update Todd. Unfortunately, for some reason I cant open most of the topics on the page you gave us the link to. I do think I have read most of them in the past. But it seems like the newest stuff is in the WSP investigation portion and I'm not able to open that.
They have opened for several other people, so maybe someone on here has some advice?
Post by: ucwarden on October 07, 2015, 08:47:58 PM
For documents and updated information check out:
www.wdfwinvestigation.com (http://www.wdfwinvestigation.com)
Post by: pashok23 on October 07, 2015, 08:54:40 PM
lmao :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:Posted a link on facebook, I hope to get another 10 before the close of the day, people need to get on this ASAP. Thanks for taking this challenge on.
You are very welcome......doubt I will ever get drawn for a Dayton bull tag now
Post by: ucwarden on October 07, 2015, 09:07:03 PM
Imao?lmao :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:Posted a link on facebook, I hope to get another 10 before the close of the day, people need to get on this ASAP. Thanks for taking this challenge on.
You are very welcome......doubt I will ever get drawn for a Dayton bull tag now
Post by: HntnFsh on October 07, 2015, 09:23:09 PM
Thanks again for the update!
Post by: ipkus on October 07, 2015, 09:41:53 PM
There is a new sheriff in town at WDFW and he's got several chances to fix situations that are hopelessly broken. Here's opportunity #1...let's see what happens.
Post by: pashok23 on October 07, 2015, 09:51:41 PM
Laughing My A.. OffImao?lmao :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:Posted a link on facebook, I hope to get another 10 before the close of the day, people need to get on this ASAP. Thanks for taking this challenge on.
You are very welcome......doubt I will ever get drawn for a Dayton bull tag now
Post by: 2labs on October 07, 2015, 09:53:45 PM
Talk about a department in need of an enema!
Post by: mfswallace on October 07, 2015, 10:15:04 PM
Post by: ucwarden on October 08, 2015, 05:23:38 AM
40 some pages later it is obvious which officers have genuine concern for procedure and officer safety, and which ones are washing Cenci's balls. One of them is a consistent star on WDFW's almost Emmy winning snore fest, representing the 509. Truly, utterly sad to read.
There is a new sheriff in town at WDFW and he's got several chances to fix situations that are hopelessly broken. Here's opportunity #1...let's see what happens.
I got a chuckle out of it when that particular guy, you are referring to, highly criticized Operation Cody to the WSP investigators. From watching the few episodes of Rugged Justice that I have, I have never seen him working on any fish and wildlife cases, so I thought he should be the last one to judge someone's work as a game warden.....since, in my opinion, he wouldn't make a zit on a real game warden's rear.
Post by: ucwarden on October 08, 2015, 05:25:25 AM
Thanks. At my advanced age I am afraid I have fallen behind a bit on electronic communication terminology.Laughing My A.. OffImao?lmao :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:Posted a link on facebook, I hope to get another 10 before the close of the day, people need to get on this ASAP. Thanks for taking this challenge on.
You are very welcome......doubt I will ever get drawn for a Dayton bull tag now
Post by: HntnFsh on October 08, 2015, 05:58:25 AM
Post by: billythekidrock on October 08, 2015, 06:19:05 AM
Post by: MtnMuley on October 08, 2015, 06:31:41 AM
I haven't read all the documents, but wow... how can Cenci still have a job at WDFW? How is he still in enforcement in any capacity with any organization? Clearly a bad apple and liability.
Pretty sickening, huh? Worst thing is, it's all been laid on the table for quite a while now and keeps dragging on without anyone being punished. Hats off once again to uc for all his hard work trying to make this a better place for all us hunters.
Post by: ctwiggs1 on October 08, 2015, 08:53:06 AM
Post by: ucwarden on October 08, 2015, 11:55:37 AM
So, is this investigation strictly about Operation Cody? Is there anything else being looked at? What about the suit filed by the Tarrabochias? I think that is the right name anyhow?
No, I my introductory letter I explain that WSP was limited to investigating Operation CODY and the allegations (against Cenci) which were investigated by private attorney Amy Stephson. Additional allegations, and testimony, will be in the other 6,000 pages which I should have around the first week of November. Once I get that information, I will get it on the website too.
Post by: ucwarden on October 08, 2015, 12:01:38 PM
I haven't read all the documents, but wow... how can Cenci still have a job at WDFW? How is he still in enforcement in any capacity with any organization? Clearly a bad apple and liability.
My opinion only here; The reason Cenci has lasted so very long, despite his bullying, threatening and unprofessional behavior is that actually runs the show. I believe Crown is too disconnected and lethargic to actually do anything, so he sits back and lets Cenci run wild, and Hobbs is about 15 steps above is capability. It is the perfect storm of workplace terrorism. A few bad apples have all the power and intimidate the employees into keeping their mouths shut. Well that is all done now; the good officers have had it and are coming forward and pleading their cases. It is just a matter of if the director will actually listen and do something.
Post by: ucwarden on October 09, 2015, 03:37:00 PM
Post by: ucwarden on October 10, 2015, 09:32:26 AM
Post by: bigtex on October 11, 2015, 10:39:49 PM
Why isn't there a push (or at least a visible one) to remove Chadwick as Captain? It seems like outside of HQ only Myers is getting some heat, yet it seems like there were more issues (Cenci's best bud, residency requirement, etc) with the promotion of Chadwick then Myers. Granted Myers shouldn't have gotten promoted either considering he's never supervised anyone.
Also, to me it looks like in Nixon's letter he wants Cenci to be fired but Crown, Hobbs, and Myers to lose their positions (get demoted.) Is that something you'd like as well, or would you prefer for them all to be fired?
Post by: ucwarden on October 12, 2015, 06:46:04 AM
Todd,
Why isn't there a push (or at least a visible one) to remove Chadwick as Captain? It seems like outside of HQ only Myers is getting some heat, yet it seems like there were more issues (Cenci's best bud, residency requirement, etc) with the promotion of Chadwick then Myers. Granted Myers shouldn't have gotten promoted either considering he's never supervised anyone.
Also, to me it looks like in Nixon's letter he wants Cenci to be fired but Crown, Hobbs, and Myers to lose their positions (get demoted.) Is that something you'd like as well, or would you prefer for them all to be fired?
My main goal is to make it a safe, secure, fair, open and non-hostile work environment for WDFW officers, so they can freely do their jobs of protecting the natural resources. To that end, Chadwick really hasn't posed a threat. While many object to the manner in-which he was promoted (as do I), I haven't heard any complaints about his behavior as captain.
The bitter side of me wants them all fired, but the realistic side knows that won't happen. Hell, it has taken 3 years and thousands of my hours to make it to the point that WDFW is even discussing what to do. I think what everyone wants is immediate relief from the tyranny. How that happens is less important, as long as there is no chance of them coming back.
Also; we all assume that if Cenci was ever fired, the rest of the house of cards would collapse on it's own. Clearly new leadership (or real leadership) is badly needed. I hope the new leadership would figure out it's time to clean house as soon as he or she is in-place.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 12, 2015, 07:31:14 AM
Post by: ctwiggs1 on October 12, 2015, 07:31:39 AM
Todd,
Why isn't there a push (or at least a visible one) to remove Chadwick as Captain? It seems like outside of HQ only Myers is getting some heat, yet it seems like there were more issues (Cenci's best bud, residency requirement, etc) with the promotion of Chadwick then Myers. Granted Myers shouldn't have gotten promoted either considering he's never supervised anyone.
Also, to me it looks like in Nixon's letter he wants Cenci to be fired but Crown, Hobbs, and Myers to lose their positions (get demoted.) Is that something you'd like as well, or would you prefer for them all to be fired?
My main goal is to make it a safe, secure, fair, open and non-hostile work environment for WDFW officers, so they can freely do their jobs of protecting the natural resources. To that end, Chadwick really hasn't posed a threat. While many object to the manner in-which he was promoted (as do I), I haven't heard any complaints about his behavior as captain.
The bitter side of me wants them all fired, but the realistic side knows that won't happen. Hell, it has taken 3 years and thousands of my hours to make it to the point that WDFW is even discussing what to do. I think what everyone wants is immediate relief from the tyranny. How that happens is less important, as long as there is no chance of them coming back.
Also; we all assume that if Cenci was ever fired, the rest of the house of cards would collapse on it's own. Clearly new leadership (or real leadership) is badly needed. I hope the new leadership would figure out it's time to clean house as soon as he or she is in-place.
UC - can't say it enough man, thanks for all your hard work on this. For the majority of us, there is no way for us to even know this corruption exists unless people like yourself volunteer a lot of time to make this all public.
THANK YOU! :tup:
Post by: ucwarden on October 12, 2015, 08:27:14 AM
So, what's going on with getting rid of these guys ? I notice Cenci on TV just about every week....
The ball is entirely in Director Unsworth's court. He received the entire 6,000+ page report from WSP on 09/25/15 (I won't receive it until the first week in November). Thus far I haven't seen any change at all. These same guys are still in the same positions doing the same things. I don't know if the director will ever take any action or not, as he won't reply to my questions anymore.
Please take the time to send Unsworth an email, or call him, and let him know you opinion. Pretty soon, the media will be asking him to explain his inaction, and I can't wait to hear his response.
Post by: ucwarden on October 12, 2015, 08:29:37 AM
Todd,
Why isn't there a push (or at least a visible one) to remove Chadwick as Captain? It seems like outside of HQ only Myers is getting some heat, yet it seems like there were more issues (Cenci's best bud, residency requirement, etc) with the promotion of Chadwick then Myers. Granted Myers shouldn't have gotten promoted either considering he's never supervised anyone.
Also, to me it looks like in Nixon's letter he wants Cenci to be fired but Crown, Hobbs, and Myers to lose their positions (get demoted.) Is that something you'd like as well, or would you prefer for them all to be fired?
My main goal is to make it a safe, secure, fair, open and non-hostile work environment for WDFW officers, so they can freely do their jobs of protecting the natural resources. To that end, Chadwick really hasn't posed a threat. While many object to the manner in-which he was promoted (as do I), I haven't heard any complaints about his behavior as captain.
The bitter side of me wants them all fired, but the realistic side knows that won't happen. Hell, it has taken 3 years and thousands of my hours to make it to the point that WDFW is even discussing what to do. I think what everyone wants is immediate relief from the tyranny. How that happens is less important, as long as there is no chance of them coming back.
Also; we all assume that if Cenci was ever fired, the rest of the house of cards would collapse on it's own. Clearly new leadership (or real leadership) is badly needed. I hope the new leadership would figure out it's time to clean house as soon as he or she is in-place.
UC - can't say it enough man, thanks for all your hard work on this. For the majority of us, there is no way for us to even know this corruption exists unless people like yourself volunteer a lot of time to make this all public.
THANK YOU! :tup:
Thanks, but we will see if any of this works.
Post by: ctwiggs1 on October 12, 2015, 08:33:30 AM
Post by: ucwarden on October 12, 2015, 09:11:27 AM
So you coming to my camp if I draw the Dayton tag??? :chuckle: :chuckle:
I would never pass up any opportunity to be involved in a Dayton bull hunt. Since I doubt I will ever get drawn, I volunteer to help out anytime I can. That is the land of the monster bulls.
Post by: ctwiggs1 on October 12, 2015, 11:28:16 AM
Take a look at Bruce Richards' letter to Chief Crown on; www.wdfw.investigation.com (http://www.wdfw.investigation.com)
Ahh now the page is down! I'd love to see what Bruce posted!
Post by: ctwiggs1 on October 12, 2015, 11:33:35 AM
Bruce isn't known for being diplomatic, but I've never once questioned his integrity. If they don't listen to a 40 year WDFW officer, WDFW is insane.
Curtis
Post by: ucwarden on October 12, 2015, 11:35:45 AM
Post by: ucwarden on October 18, 2015, 08:46:45 AM
Thanks