Post by: nw_bowhunter on March 31, 2014, 08:27:42 AM
Post by: Todd_ID on March 31, 2014, 08:42:01 AM
Always try to get extra weight for hunting. Heavy arrows go through critters. Light and fast gets the standard 12" of penetration that you see so often on tv.
Post by: D-Rock425 on March 31, 2014, 08:42:25 AM
Post by: bullfisher on March 31, 2014, 08:49:50 AM
Post by: nw_bowhunter on March 31, 2014, 09:49:02 AM
Post by: bullfisher on March 31, 2014, 10:01:53 AM
Ok thanks guys. So I guess I need do the brass inserts or goto heavier broadhead, or stay with the 10+ gpiCorrect. However, if you use a brass insert (100grns I believe) you may need to jump up a spine to .300.
Post by: Russ McDonald on March 31, 2014, 10:42:29 AM
Post by: bullfisher on March 31, 2014, 11:08:46 AM
I am tagging this. I was shooting Carbon Express Crush with Nockturnals and 100gr broad head, which weighed out to 450gr, at 73 lbs on my old bow. Now I am going the GT Hunter Pro's 7595's with Nockturnals and I might bump it up to a 125gr broad head also and different bow set to 63lbs. Total weight I need is 378gr if I figured it right. GT Hunter Pro's7595's weight at 29" is 258.1 gr. I think I am going to be fine even if I stick with the 100gr broadhead.
A 7595@63# may be a little stiff for you. Especially with a nocturnal and 100grn head.
Post by: Russ McDonald on March 31, 2014, 11:11:22 AM
What do you think? I am still learning.I am tagging this. I was shooting Carbon Express Crush with Nockturnals and 100gr broad head, which weighed out to 450gr, at 73 lbs on my old bow. Now I am going the GT Hunter Pro's 7595's with Nockturnals and I might bump it up to a 125gr broad head also and different bow set to 63lbs. Total weight I need is 378gr if I figured it right. GT Hunter Pro's7595's weight at 29" is 258.1 gr. I think I am going to be fine even if I stick with the 100gr broadhead.
A 7595@63# may be a little stiff for you. Especially with a nocturnal and 100grn head.
Post by: bullfisher on March 31, 2014, 12:00:37 PM
Post by: jstone on March 31, 2014, 12:10:35 PM
Post by: jstone on March 31, 2014, 12:11:50 PM
Post by: demontang on March 31, 2014, 12:19:27 PM
Im shooting prohunters 300spine cut at 30" with a 100gr head, nockternal, and 50gr weight. Which puts me at 470grs, 13 foc and they fly great and penetrate so much I have a hard time not going through targets. :tup:
Post by: bullfisher on March 31, 2014, 12:28:03 PM
For the record, your standard shaft size should be a .400 but if you can tune a .340 at 63lbs then do it.What do you think? I am still learning.I am tagging this. I was shooting Carbon Express Crush with Nockturnals and 100gr broad head, which weighed out to 450gr, at 73 lbs on my old bow. Now I am going the GT Hunter Pro's 7595's with Nockturnals and I might bump it up to a 125gr broad head also and different bow set to 63lbs. Total weight I need is 378gr if I figured it right. GT Hunter Pro's7595's weight at 29" is 258.1 gr. I think I am going to be fine even if I stick with the 100gr broadhead.
A 7595@63# may be a little stiff for you. Especially with a nocturnal and 100grn head.
Post by: Russ McDonald on March 31, 2014, 12:47:32 PM
Well russ, my opinion may be a little convoluded due to my never ending quest for extreme FOC. I also shoot and recomend a heavy arrow especially for those who hunt elk with bows under 70lbs. That being said, a 340 spine arrow (7595) will work just fine from your bow but you might consider ditching the nocturnal and switching to a 125 head. While weight in the front will decrease spine weight in back will increase spine. You could probably even get away with a brass insert with that setup at 63lbs. It all depends on what your trying to achieve, light and fast or heavy with more momentum. But that's just my :twocents: either way I suggest playing with the "build your own arrow" tool on gt's site.All I want to do is put meat in the freezer but I did just join the Cedar River Bowmen club so I going to learn even more. Thanks for the input.
Post by: scottcrb on March 31, 2014, 12:54:33 PM
Its one thing I love about my gold tips. I use their insert weight to get the foc where I want it and make legal weight.Hey demontang I have some goldtips I need to.add weight to but can't find a shop with.the inserts or the tool to add them. Where did you go ? I'm in Seattle area.
Im shooting prohunters 300spine cut at 30" with a 100gr head, nockternal, and 50gr weight. Which puts me at 470grs, 13 foc and they fly great and penetrate so much I have a hard time not going through targets. :tup:
Post by: demontang on March 31, 2014, 05:52:38 PM
Post by: TheHunt on March 31, 2014, 06:12:40 PM
Post by: xXLojackXx on March 31, 2014, 07:50:57 PM
I read that someone had a 84 lb draw. Think of that arrow length at 27 in draw length.
You're talking about me :chuckle:
My bow is pulling 84 lbs and I'm running Easton Axis arrows at 29" with wraps, 3 blazers, knock/insert and a 50 grain brass insert to get me right at 505 grains. And they still move at 293 fps.
Post by: huntingaddiction on April 07, 2014, 01:30:29 PM
Post by: stromdiddily on April 07, 2014, 01:40:41 PM
You're talking about me :chuckle:
My bow is pulling 84 lbs and I'm running Easton Axis arrows at 29" with wraps, 3 blazers, knock/insert and a 50 grain brass insert to get me right at 505 grains. And they still move at 293 fps.
:tup:
What bow you shooting? Er rather, which Hoyt?
Post by: deerslyr on April 07, 2014, 07:46:08 PM
Ok thanks guys. So I guess I need do the brass inserts or goto heavier broadhead, or stay with the 10+ gpi
You can also crank down your poundage a few pounds and not notice much of a difference in performance and be perfectly legal.
Post by: xXLojackXx on April 07, 2014, 08:11:20 PM
You're talking about me :chuckle:
My bow is pulling 84 lbs and I'm running Easton Axis arrows at 29" with wraps, 3 blazers, knock/insert and a 50 grain brass insert to get me right at 505 grains. And they still move at 293 fps.
:tup:
What bow you shooting? Er rather, which Hoyt?
Shooting a 29" Carbon Spyder Turbo. 84lb draw & 505gr arrows getting 293 fps and 96-97 ft/lbs of energy. Lots of people ask why? Because I like as much penetration and energy as I can comfortably shoot.
Post by: stromdiddily on April 08, 2014, 10:02:17 AM
Post by: BrandonWatts on April 08, 2014, 10:37:50 AM
.
You're talking about me :chuckle:
My bow is pulling 84 lbs and I'm running Easton Axis arrows at 29" with wraps, 3 blazers, knock/insert and a 50 grain brass insert to get me right at 505 grains. And they still move at 293 fps.
:tup:
What bow you shooting? Er rather, which Hoyt?
Shooting a 29" Carbon Spyder Turbo. 84lb draw & 505gr arrows getting 293 fps and 96-97 ft/lbs of energy. Lots of people ask why? Because I like as much penetration and energy as I can comfortably shoot.
i woud have to agree with you guys. im shooting an 80 hoyt verctor turbo. i am in oregon right now so no arrow weight limit. shooting a 405 grain goldtipwith a 30 inch draw at 324 fps.
hey xXLojackXx what arrow are you shooting. i am going to be moving back to washington before archery season and i am trying to find a new arrow to meet weight. 480 grains is as low as i can go.
Post by: xXLojackXx on April 08, 2014, 11:58:56 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 08, 2014, 12:04:27 PM
The easiest fixes would be changing to a 125 gr broadhead or dialing down your weight.
Post by: nw_bowhunter on April 08, 2014, 04:04:51 PM
Post by: xXLojackXx on April 08, 2014, 04:14:10 PM
Any of you guys look at the VAPs hunting arrows? I did recently and with the extra insert, fletching, nock, etc I could make weight. Had a smaller small diameter than most arrows, 340 spine BUT the cost is significantly more. I think its an extra $40 to $60 for the heavier inserts. Are the arrows worth the extra money? Around $200+ for dozen arrows. Lots of great reviews. Not sure I like how they add the extra insert through. It adds good 1.5 inches to your arrow length.
I have (11) VAP V1's you can buy :tup: I shot 4 of them in practice out of my 70 lb bow and the rest are brand new. They are 30" with the inserts and weigh 343gr without a tip or broadhead. They're great arrows and fly excellent, I've shot 6" groups at 130 yards with them. $130 if you want them
Post by: RadSav on April 08, 2014, 04:26:27 PM
Any of you guys look at the VAPs hunting arrows? I did recently and with the extra insert, fletching, nock, etc I could make weight. Had a smaller small diameter than most arrows, 340 spine BUT the cost is significantly more. I think its an extra $40 to $60 for the heavier inserts. Are the arrows worth the extra money? Around $200+ for dozen arrows. Lots of great reviews. Not sure I like how they add the extra insert through. It adds good 1.5 inches to your arrow length.
Victory makes a good arrow but in general smaller diameter shafts have less stability with broadheads. Doesn't mean you won't get good flight, but does mean you need to have some very good FOC numbers. Small diameter shafts are great penetrators of plywood, automotive glass, static foam and sinter blocks. However, their advantages on fluid filled animal tissues are highly over rated. I prefer a more standard, easier to fletch full/max helical, more readily available shaft myself. All the good arrows are starting to get expensive these days though they are not always necessary for hunting bows either. VAP/Victory is a good product. Just not my cup of tea.
Post by: stromdiddily on April 08, 2014, 05:03:44 PM
Post by: RadSav on April 08, 2014, 05:18:50 PM
Rad - I've been looking to start fletching my own arrows...how severe is your helix angle (I think that's what it's called :dunno:)
Depends on what bow/rest combination I am shooting that day ;) I've been hooked on the Bohning Helix Tower jig lately which I think is 3 degrees. It looks like a pile of junky plastic, but it's fletched every arrow absolutely perfect. Saves a bunch of time too! I'm now using it on all my three fletch arrows shot from bows with fall away rests. I'm probably up to 40 dozen arrows on the one jig and it still works and looks like new. Never one single bad fletch using the Bohning Tower!
My bows that have shoot through rest like the Octane Hostage Pro (my favorite travel rest) and the wife's Hairy Hole I still use the Bitzenberger jig. With 2" vanes I can come very close to the Helix, but I've never measured it to see what the offset actually is. If I were to guess I'd say better than two and probably closer to 2.5 degrees.
Post by: nw_bowhunter on April 08, 2014, 05:47:20 PM
See I had some questions about the diameter of the shaft. What I read was the thought that the smaller diameter shaft will go through the animal easier but I was more concerned about the actual damage/shock factor. They also claim tighter groups. I'm having a hard time justifying the cost. Plus having to spend an extra $50 on the penatrator inserts seems to much.. RadSav I wish I understood the whole FOC better.. My current Beaman Realtrees which aren't made any more shoot great out of my new bow, of course I haven't tried broadheads yet.Any of you guys look at the VAPs hunting arrows? I did recently and with the extra insert, fletching, nock, etc I could make weight. Had a smaller small diameter than most arrows, 340 spine BUT the cost is significantly more. I think its an extra $40 to $60 for the heavier inserts. Are the arrows worth the extra money? Around $200+ for dozen arrows. Lots of great reviews. Not sure I like how they add the extra insert through. It adds good 1.5 inches to your arrow length.
Victory makes a good arrow but in general smaller diameter shafts have less stability with broadheads. Doesn't mean you won't get good flight, but does mean you need to have some very good FOC numbers. Small diameter shafts are great penetrators of plywood, automotive glass, static foam and sinter blocks. However, their advantages on fluid filled animal tissues are highly over rated. I prefer a more standard, easier to fletch full/max helical, more readily available shaft myself. All the good arrows are starting to get expensive these days though they are not always necessary for hunting bows either. VAP/Victory is a good product. Just not my cup of tea.
Post by: RadSav on April 08, 2014, 06:17:36 PM
RadSav I wish I understood the whole FOC better..
It's actually very simple when you look at it the right way. Think of your arrow as a piece of kite string. You try and throw it and it remains in it's crooked state. Now attach a weight to one end and throw it and the string become much straighter in flight and not much effects it's path. Add some drag to the back end of the string by attaching some feathers or tissue. Now when thrown the string is nearly perfectly straight in flight stretched between positive energy force in the front and negative energy force (or drag) in the back. The more weight attached to the front the more energy it has forward and the less environmental forces will effect it's path. That's pretty much FOC in a nutshell.
Post by: nw_bowhunter on April 08, 2014, 06:49:15 PM
ok that makes sense.. I been doing some reading on Easton's website which has helped also..RadSav I wish I understood the whole FOC better..
It's actually very simple when you look at it the right way. Think of your arrow as a piece of kite string. You try and throw it and it remains in it's crooked state. Now attach a weight to one end and throw it and the string become much straighter in flight and not much effects it's path. Add some drag to the back end of the string by attaching some feathers or tissue. Now when thrown the string is nearly perfectly straight in flight stretched between positive energy force in the front and negative energy force (or drag) in the back. The more weight attached to the front the more energy it has forward and the less environmental forces will effect it's path. That's pretty much FOC in a nutshell.
Post by: stromdiddily on April 09, 2014, 02:00:34 PM
Rad - I've been looking to start fletching my own arrows...how severe is your helix angle (I think that's what it's called :dunno:)
Depends on what bow/rest combination I am shooting that day ;) I've been hooked on the Bohning Helix Tower jig lately which I think is 3 degrees. It looks like a pile of junky plastic, but it's fletched every arrow absolutely perfect. Saves a bunch of time too! I'm now using it on all my three fletch arrows shot from bows with fall away rests. I'm probably up to 40 dozen arrows on the one jig and it still works and looks like new. Never one single bad fletch using the Bohning Tower!
My bows that have shoot through rest like the Octane Hostage Pro (my favorite travel rest) and the wife's Hairy Hole I still use the Bitzenberger jig. With 2" vanes I can come very close to the Helix, but I've never measured it to see what the offset actually is. If I were to guess I'd say better than two and probably closer to 2.5 degrees.
Thank you sir.
And sorry OP for the temporary thread jack
Post by: Russ McDonald on April 11, 2014, 08:17:11 PM
bolt weighing less than 350 grains.
Post by: RadSav on April 11, 2014, 08:33:23 PM
So learned by reading the proposed regs. It is unlawful to hunt big game animals with any arrow or
bolt weighing less than 350 grains.
Minimum weight for an arrow is 300 grains. Minimum weight for a bolt is 350 grains.
Post by: Russ McDonald on April 11, 2014, 08:36:06 PM
but in the new proposed regs is says arrows or bolt. As I read it minimum weight would be 350 grains period no calculating to make sure your making weight. Unless I am reading that wrong.So learned by reading the proposed regs. It is unlawful to hunt big game animals with any arrow or
bolt weighing less than 350 grains.
Minimum weight for an arrow is 300 grains. Minimum weight for a bolt is 350 grains.
Post by: RadSav on April 11, 2014, 10:17:01 PM
That is when I can get that open. Keep getting a "Too many connections" error. Never seen that before. Especially at 10:20 PM
Post by: Russ McDonald on April 12, 2014, 06:29:36 AM
I'll have to check that out. Would sure be nice if I could use my Canada setup here in Washington!I was getting the same thing but I found another way to get it here is the link http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/regulations/2014/wsr_14-03-135.pdf (http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/regulations/2014/wsr_14-03-135.pdf)
That is when I can get that open. Keep getting a "Too many connections" error. Never seen that before. Especially at 10:20 PM
Post by: RadSav on April 12, 2014, 07:19:37 AM
From what I see the rules have not changed in that regard. There is a mention you described but under, (4) Rules Pertaining to Crossbows ((b))...350 grains.
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on April 12, 2014, 07:37:10 AM
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on April 12, 2014, 07:45:19 AM
It's 4 (b) under unlawful methods of hunting. It seems it might be true.
Ok I read it again. And 4 is rules for crossbows. But maybe it too early for me too.
Post by: RadSav on April 12, 2014, 07:48:47 AM
Rad,
It's 4 (b) under unlawful methods of hunting. It seems it might be true.
Yeah, that's "(4) Rules pertaining to crossbows" subsection ((b)).
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on April 12, 2014, 07:54:24 AM
Post by: Russ McDonald on April 12, 2014, 08:08:41 PM
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
Post by: Mumbles on May 20, 2014, 05:29:02 AM
(b) It is unlawful to hunt big game animals with any arrow measuring less than 20 inches in length or weighing less than 6 grains per pound of draw weight with a minimum arrow weight of 300 grains.
I draw 70. 420 is my minimum. My arrows are over that. 27.5" FMJ with brass inserts and 100 grain broad heads put me at 515 with FOC of 14.5%. Seems that these fly nice, hit hard and bury deep in targets.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on May 20, 2014, 05:30:40 AM
Post by: Mumbles on May 20, 2014, 06:10:52 AM
What kind of speeds are you getting
Calculations say 270 fps and 83 ftlbs of KE. Seem to get from here to there pretty well and hit solid when they arrive. Pin gap spacing is pretty close out to 50 with a bit more gap to 60.