Post by: dreamingbig on April 14, 2014, 05:35:10 AM
We come up with our own ideas but they are going to put more importance on what the GMAC says so what are you focused on?
Thank you.
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Post by: Todd_ID on April 15, 2014, 01:49:21 AM
The position on the Allocation sub-committee is where we get some input on the 3 year season-setting process, i.e., what the regs look like when they come out. That sub-committee hasn't met yet, but we are gathering info and statistics to help keep opportunities open and increase them where possible. Also, a consensus from the Archery Coalition carries a lot of weight for changes.
One of the main reasons for creating this board was to generate feedback on what members wanted to see us working on. Thus far we've seen an overwhelming response for getting a later start date for early elk season, maintain cow elk opportunities and getting back to at least a 14 day elk season. Also having traction are: more westside late season blacktail opportunity, get WDFW to quit worrying about having archery deer season overlap in areas where 1 rifle rut elk tag is given and run the season the same as the rest of the state in those areas, get the NE units late archery deer season back to including Thanksgiving (start the day after late rifle deer). Surprisingly enough there hasn't been much discussion about equipment on the board, so I'm guessing everyone was roughly fine with the status quo. (The crossbow discussion has already been settled: disabled archers will be allowed to use a non-magnifying scope on a crossbow.)
This is a start of a good list to accomplish; what else should be on it and why?
Post by: dreamingbig on April 15, 2014, 03:52:49 AM
I would also address the permit creep on the rut hunts (went from one to two this year) and ask them why they couldn't be for all user groups. Archery has never been allowed to hunt in the last week of Sep since I have been hunting (early 90s) and I believe it might be "never".
I would also like to address the permit allocation process. Since it is based on "success rate" of each user group it introduces incentive for users to cheat and report no harvest (classic game theory). Perhaps there is a better way to allocate permits that doesn't rely on "honest" self reporting.
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Post by: popeshawnpaul on April 15, 2014, 11:04:33 AM
Please give us ideas on what you want us to work on if you are a member. We value the input.
Post by: dreamingbig on April 15, 2014, 05:29:33 PM
I still struggle with there allocation based on self reporting harvest percentages.
Sept 8-21 is my top priority.
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Post by: hughjorgan on April 15, 2014, 08:26:14 PM
I was a member but dues are close to being expired. How can we renew?
I still struggle with there allocation based on self reporting harvest percentages.
Sept 8-21 is my top priority.
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It's easy to do now, it is all online.
http://www.wsbowhunters.org (http://www.wsbowhunters.org)
Post by: hughjorgan on April 15, 2014, 08:28:35 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 15, 2014, 09:01:21 PM
Archery Coalition met and we have ideas about moving the early elk to 8-20/21. Todd hit a bunch of the other ones. At a GMAC meeting, there is very little opportunity to voice specific season issues. Allocation sub-committee hasn't met recently but when they did, they found most opportunity was at an equal level.
Please give us ideas on what you want us to work on if you are a member. We value the input.
Did I read that right? Did you say August 20/21 for an early archery start date?
Now that would be interesting. I think that would be great. Good way to get some additional time added to the early archery season.
Post by: jackelope on April 15, 2014, 09:17:42 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 15, 2014, 09:25:50 PM
Oregon's season starts in August if that helps.
I know a one week earlier season sure would have helped me last season. We had six legal bulls on camera up to the end of August, then they disappeared.
Post by: dreamingbig on April 16, 2014, 09:38:37 PM
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Post by: bobcat on April 16, 2014, 10:15:22 PM
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Post by: 4fletch on April 17, 2014, 12:47:28 AM
Post by: dreamingbig on April 17, 2014, 06:17:09 AM
Why would I drop it? I think it's a good idea. I thought I explained why. If you can't get the later season you want, wouldn't you at least like to have a couple weeks added to the beginning of the season?. Mostly because they won't increase our days afield thus we don't want two weeks in Aug!
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Post by: popeshawnpaul on April 19, 2014, 12:04:03 PM
A hard set elk season is what bowhunters need. Please don't tell me you want a Sept 1 start so you can hunt the holiday weekend with your kids. I think that is important, so we want to do youth hunts for that Sept 1-8 time frame for early elk. How would it be to bring your kids out to hunt the days before school starts and try and call a bull in for them?
Then the serious elk hunting starts. I think the fear is if we have 8-20 we would kill too many elk. Statistically, that is not true. So why would we want those days? At least 2 reasons recently discussed with my friend Huntnphool. Everyone likes to hunt when the elk are bulging. This does not mean you will kill more elk, but it is a better experience for those in the woods. Also, there is the cooler weather argument that we can debate forever. Bowhunters know that in hot weather, you must get your elk out quick and they talk more during colder weather. I would trade days in the Sept. 4-8 range for days in the 16-21 range. That short time frame difference, in the mountains, makes a difference.
Those are my thoughts. I appreciate yours!
Post by: Gamblin Guy on April 22, 2014, 09:46:35 PM
I appreciate your thoughts and agree that an 8-21 would be good for set dates.
I think one of the arguments to make, and from what I have heard it is the same argument that was made to justify the dates for the rifle rut tag dates, is that the animals are pressured by all the activity on the holiday weekend. Archery is the only user group that has to deal with the effects on the elk of all of the non-hunting activity over a holiday weekend. I think we all know that elk and deer both change behavior/patterns based on human activity in the woods, the increased activity over the Labor Day weekend changes those patterns/behaviors and takes several days to "settle down" or return to normal. I know its anecdotal but I have several years worth of trail camera activity that shows elk coming into the same area regularly up until the holiday weekend. There are times during the summer when it appears that the activity on the camera is steady M-F and decreases on the weekends...presumably when human activity increases.
From what I have heard, the justification for moving archery to the Tuesday after Labor Day (and away from the established dates of the 8th-21st as it was at the time) when they created the rifle rut tags was that they (who they were I am not sure) wanted to give the elk some time to settle down and get back into a normal behavior pattern before the rifle rut tag season started. If that is true, then why not make the same argument for the archery seasons, give the elk a chance to settle down into a more normal pattern after the chaos from the holiday weekend?
I've sat in my camp on Labor Day weekend and watched all kinds of strange happenings in the woods while I was supposed to be trying to chase elk. I am not saying those folks who want to ride motorcycles, pick berries, have raging bon fires while partying like crazy (although I will continue to call those illegal fires in), bring their families to the woods etc shouldn't be able to. I am just saying we as a group shouldn't have to put up with all of that too when none of the other user groups have to deal with anything remotely close to that much activity in the woods.
I started bow hunting for elk in 1988, in those days our seasons were the same as the muzzle loader seasons and we split the GMU's. I am not foolish enough to think we will ever get the last week of September and the first week of October back for our seasons, but I don't see any justifiable reason to keep opening archery season the Tuesday after Labor Day. I know based on the calendar that next year we are supposed to open on the 8th. Conveniently the new 3 year season cycle starts next year and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the WDFW didn't push to open archery elk on September 1st for the next 3 years and then move the opener back to the Tuesday following Labor Day again.
You asked for our thoughts and those are mine, hopefully they make sense after a little Pendleton.....
Post by: popeshawnpaul on April 23, 2014, 08:42:22 PM
One thing I want to emphasize is we haven't seen a statistical increase in harvest from the change of 8-20 to the current system. We can make the change everyone wants without increasing harvest significantly and that's a win win situation. The problem I have is the minority that argue the season should start on sept 1...
Looks like we'll have an allocation meeting soon so more to come!
Post by: hughjorgan on April 23, 2014, 08:50:50 PM
Interesting thoughts Gamblin Guy and I'll keep them in mind.
One thing I want to emphasize is we haven't seen a statistical increase in harvest from the change of 8-20 to the current system. We can make the change everyone wants without increasing harvest significantly and that's a win win situation. The problem I have is the minority that argue the season should start on sept 1...
Looks like we'll have an allocation meeting soon so more to come!
What minority is arguing for a September 1st start? Not archers, right? Muzzle loaders and modern guys suggesting that?
Post by: Gamblin Guy on April 23, 2014, 08:51:54 PM
I don't think we killed that many more elk the few years we had the 8th- 21st dates, but since they recently increased the cow tags for rifle stating they want to reduce the heard numbers, even if we did kill more with those dates seems to me they would want to move us back and let us kill more. But then again, they wont make as much money on applications for cow tags and rifle rut tags if the archery users take more cows.
Just my $.02.....
Post by: popeshawnpaul on April 24, 2014, 10:02:03 AM
Interesting thoughts Gamblin Guy and I'll keep them in mind.
One thing I want to emphasize is we haven't seen a statistical increase in harvest from the change of 8-20 to the current system. We can make the change everyone wants without increasing harvest significantly and that's a win win situation. The problem I have is the minority that argue the season should start on sept 1...
Looks like we'll have an allocation meeting soon so more to come!
What minority is arguing for a September 1st start? Not archers, right? Muzzle loaders and modern guys suggesting that?