Post by: Fullabull on April 25, 2014, 09:29:12 AM
But what they do not show you is how much disparity there is in the success rates for Special Permit hunts. I took the time to go through them and provide the success rates below.
Archers need to demand going back to early season starting date of Sept. 8th and keep it there.
Quality Bull Hunt MF
Hunters 251 Permits 305
Spike 2 Point 3 Point 4 Point 5 + Point
8 3 6 20 116
Total Bulls 153 Success 61%
Branch Bull Success 54%
Quality Bull Hunt AR
Hunters 406 Permits 580
Spike 2 Point 3 Point 4 Point 5 + Point
5 2 0 5 57
Total Bulls 69 Success 17%
Branch Bull Success 15%
Quality Bull Hunt ML
Hunters 108 Permits 141
Spike 2 Point 3 Point 4 Point 5 + Point
3 2 0 3 42
Total Bulls 50 Success 46%
Branch Bull Success 41%
Bull Elk Permits MF
Hunters 482 Permits 598
Spike 2 Point 3 Point 4 Point 5 + Point
16 8 8 30 146
Total Bulls 208 Success 43%
Branch Bull Success 36%
Bull Elk Permits AR
Hunters 60 Permits 87
Spike 2 Point 3 Point 4 Point 5 + Point
2 0 2 0 13
Total Bulls 17 Success 28%
Branch Bull Success 22%
Bull Elk Permits ML
Hunters 48 Permits 71
Spike 2 Point 3 Point 4 Point 5 + Point
2 0 0 1 11
Total Bulls 14 Success 29%
Branch Bull Success 25%
Post by: buglebuster on April 25, 2014, 10:14:34 AM
Post by: Deathgrip on April 25, 2014, 10:17:31 AM
Sorry I got off topic a little but its how I feel.
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 25, 2014, 10:34:18 AM
The one thing I will say is that it's damned hot, but that could happen anytime in September.:dunno:
Post by: motg9_6 on April 25, 2014, 10:44:22 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 25, 2014, 10:49:31 AM
Post by: washelkhunter on April 25, 2014, 11:19:26 AM
Post by: bullfisher on April 25, 2014, 11:20:24 AM
Post by: motg9_6 on April 25, 2014, 11:33:00 AM
AR gets to hunt the beginning of the rut always. ML hunts the tail end of the rut always. The reason no one hunts the middle of the rut is because most of the breeding bulls would be killed off and then what? Seems to me AR has precious little to whine about. You get liberal take, 12 days, and all the prime units. Fugettaboutit.other states with PREMIER DESTINATION elk hunting hunt the prime every year and their herds seem to do better than ours. Heres something to think about. Turkeys, kill the big toms and the jakes breed more and thus theres more turkeys made every year. same with dominate coyotes kill them the others will breed rapidly till new dominance is established. seems like this would work with elk as well
Post by: Fullabull on April 25, 2014, 11:35:33 AM
Post by: motg9_6 on April 25, 2014, 11:37:05 AM
Starting Sept 8th each year still leaves 2 to 3 weeks during prime rut for the elk to do there thing. that would be just fine. ML's hunt more in the rut than Archers do! That is why they restrict the units they can hunt.agreed
Post by: washelkhunter on April 25, 2014, 12:18:15 PM
Starting Sept 8th each year still leaves 2 to 3 weeks during prime rut for the elk to do there thing. that would be just fine. ML's hunt more in the rut than Archers do! That is why they restrict the units they can hunt.
I could support that; if AR is limited to one week; Sun-Sun, 2nd week of Sept.
Post by: snowpack on April 25, 2014, 12:25:44 PM
It would be as crowded and crazy as the early muzzy elk seasons.Starting Sept 8th each year still leaves 2 to 3 weeks during prime rut for the elk to do there thing. that would be just fine. ML's hunt more in the rut than Archers do! That is why they restrict the units they can hunt.
I could support that; if AR is limited to one week; Sun-Sun, 2nd week of Sept.
Post by: jackmaster on April 25, 2014, 12:30:38 PM
Post by: stromdiddily on April 25, 2014, 12:39:43 PM
i know a few bow hunters and they all whack a bull every year here on the wetside :dunno: i have elk in my backyard almost the whole bow season give or take a day when its hotter than the firey pits of hell, almost wish i could shoot a bow :dunno: :tup:
PM me your address, I'll come take care of that population problem you seem to have :chuckle:
Post by: brushhunter on April 25, 2014, 02:03:53 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on April 25, 2014, 02:27:19 PM
Post by: buglebuster on April 25, 2014, 02:35:59 PM
Another thing I have noticed and that seems a little odd to me is that the Eastern Archery quality bull tags are from sept 2nd-14th or 1st-19th yet rifle, though shorter, gets a much stronger portion of the rut from the 22nd-26th. That doesn't seem right to me but I could be way off base.It's all about the $$ and quality apps.
Post by: vandeman17 on April 25, 2014, 02:39:57 PM
Another thing I have noticed and that seems a little odd to me is that the Eastern Archery quality bull tags are from sept 2nd-14th or 1st-19th yet rifle, though shorter, gets a much stronger portion of the rut from the 22nd-26th. That doesn't seem right to me but I could be way off base.It's all about the $$ and quality apps.
100% agree. They know the big money comes from the rifle hunters but still bogus. Why not at least let the archery guys overlap or something. A few rifle hunters out there is no different and doesn't pose a safety issue or orange requirement.
Post by: Rainier10 on April 25, 2014, 02:44:27 PM
I think if they moved the archery season back to the 8th through the 21st and let the rifle rut tags have the dates they have now or have overlap is the best way to go. If you swapped timeframes and gave the archers the later timeframe and made the rifle guys hunt early then everyone would be up in arms that the rifle guys were shooting all the big bulls before the archery guys could get a crack at them.Another thing I have noticed and that seems a little odd to me is that the Eastern Archery quality bull tags are from sept 2nd-14th or 1st-19th yet rifle, though shorter, gets a much stronger portion of the rut from the 22nd-26th. That doesn't seem right to me but I could be way off base.It's all about the $$ and quality apps.
100% agree. They know the big money comes from the rifle hunters but still bogus. Why not at least let the archery guys overlap or something. A few rifle hunters out there is no different and doesn't pose a safety issue or orange requirement.
Post by: bullfisher on April 25, 2014, 02:45:39 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on April 25, 2014, 02:47:11 PM
I think if they moved the archery season back to the 8th through the 21st and let the rifle rut tags have the dates they have now or have overlap is the best way to go. If you swapped timeframes and gave the archers the later timeframe and made the rifle guys hunt early then everyone would be up in arms that the rifle guys were shooting all the big bulls before the archery guys could get a crack at them.Another thing I have noticed and that seems a little odd to me is that the Eastern Archery quality bull tags are from sept 2nd-14th or 1st-19th yet rifle, though shorter, gets a much stronger portion of the rut from the 22nd-26th. That doesn't seem right to me but I could be way off base.It's all about the $$ and quality apps.
100% agree. They know the big money comes from the rifle hunters but still bogus. Why not at least let the archery guys overlap or something. A few rifle hunters out there is no different and doesn't pose a safety issue or orange requirement.
I see what you are saying but most of the rifle tags are a single tag so I can't imagine there would be much, if any gripe. It just seems like general season and quality, at least for central washington archery elk is a bit out of touch.
Post by: RadSav on April 25, 2014, 03:02:38 PM
But what they do not show you is how much disparity there is in the success rates for Special Permit hunts.
There will always be a disparity between bowhunters and other user groups when you take does and cows out of the equation. I don't think start dates would make much of a difference. When you start hunting smarter, older animals with limited numbers and limited early season access due to fire dangers archery hunters will always have lower success numbers. That's all part of the up-close/archery game. It's not like eastern whitetails where everyone is shooting them from the same distance from their treestand.
Post by: Fullabull on April 25, 2014, 03:18:05 PM
Post by: elkoholic1 on April 25, 2014, 03:46:00 PM
Post by: D-Rock425 on April 25, 2014, 04:00:39 PM
Post by: popeshawnpaul on April 25, 2014, 04:01:37 PM
I'd like the season to go back to the 8th I think my success rate could get a little better.
That would be a great reason for them not to do it then... :rolleyes:
Post by: RadSav on April 25, 2014, 04:23:04 PM
Post by: D-Rock425 on April 28, 2014, 07:50:24 AM
Personally I liked it best when our season was the same every year - October 1-16th. If I remember right deer season usually started two weeks prior. Much easier to get those big herd bulls to leave their cows during the second estrus cycle! Plus we could hunt Oregon for three weeks and not miss the opener here! Those were good days :tup:my dad tells me about those days but that was before my time.
Post by: RadSav on April 28, 2014, 08:11:07 AM
Personally I liked it best when our season was the same every year - October 1-16th. If I remember right deer season usually started two weeks prior. Much easier to get those big herd bulls to leave their cows during the second estrus cycle! Plus we could hunt Oregon for three weeks and not miss the opener here! Those were good days :tup:my dad tells me about those days but that was before my time.
Cool thing was that we bugled bulls constantly in Oregon from end of August till the deer opener here. My best days of bugling were always mid October, both here and in Oregon, but that doesn't mean we didn't have plenty of action on September 1st. Just not the level of vocalism as in October. Best part of October was the weather! I'm one of those guys who starts complaining the moment the temperature breaks 65 degrees. So October usually fit into my comfort zone a little more often than August 27th. Though, I have killed more bulls in August than I have in October. I think of my first 16 archery bulls (think that's where I was at when I got married) I believe 12 or 13 were taken either the last week of August or the first week of September.
Post by: D-Rock425 on April 28, 2014, 08:36:12 AM
Post by: idahohuntr on April 28, 2014, 08:55:17 AM
Post by: Fullabull on April 28, 2014, 09:11:59 AM
My understanding of why WDFW moved the season earlier was not beacause overall success rates were way out of line compared to other weapon types, but at least on the west side Archers composed 18% of the elk hunters but they were taking 36% of the 5+ point bulls. So it was more about spreading out the harvest of branch bulls. I bet if you proposed a spike only rule or went to special apps for branch bull archery tags WDFW would give you back that Sep 8 opener :chuckle: :chuckle:
That is why I put those number up. WDFW have never posted them for special permit hunts like this. They only showed the general season numbers which is not a true reflection of what group harvests the majority of branch bulls. That is why I did this so people can really see it and hopefully ask to have the season changed back to the 8th to the 21st or 22nd. It will be interesting to see the numbers after the 2015 season when it will start on the 8th for that one year before going backwards again.
Post by: returnofsid on April 28, 2014, 09:35:22 AM
Post by: Fullabull on April 28, 2014, 03:52:17 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on April 28, 2014, 10:22:43 PM
I didn't look at any of the numbers you posted, but wdfw is trying to achieve fairness by trying to keep branch bull harvest proportional to the participation rate for the different weapons...so per your comment I would guess MF guys killed most of the bulls...which they should if most people hunt MF. Like I said earlier, the issue was 18% of the hunters were archers and they were killing 36% of the branch bulls.My understanding of why WDFW moved the season earlier was not beacause overall success rates were way out of line compared to other weapon types, but at least on the west side Archers composed 18% of the elk hunters but they were taking 36% of the 5+ point bulls. So it was more about spreading out the harvest of branch bulls. I bet if you proposed a spike only rule or went to special apps for branch bull archery tags WDFW would give you back that Sep 8 opener :chuckle: :chuckle:
That is why I put those number up. WDFW have never posted them for special permit hunts like this. They only showed the general season numbers which is not a true reflection of what group harvests the majority of branch bulls. That is why I did this so people can really see it and hopefully ask to have the season changed back to the 8th to the 21st or 22nd. It will be interesting to see the numbers after the 2015 season when it will start on the 8th for that one year before going backwards again.
Of course archers wants the season Sep 8-21 but apparently out of fairness/population concerns etc. WDFW can't do that with a general season. Most wildlife management is a trade-off and you have to compromise. For example, if you went to a permit only branch bull archery system where wdfw could limit the numbers of archers then they would probably be able to do Sep 8-21...are you willing to give up otc hunting to achieve that??? Its easy for folks to say "I want to hunt the peak of the rut"...its what they are willing to give up to allow such management that things get tough. :twocents:
Post by: Dbax129 on April 28, 2014, 10:54:59 PM
i know a few bow hunters and they all whack a bull every year here on the wetside :dunno: i have elk in my backyard almost the whole bow season give or take a day when its hotter than the firey pits of hell, almost wish i could shoot a bow :dunno: :tup:
PM me your address, I'll come take care of that population problem you seem to have :chuckle:
2nd that!
Post by: RadSav on April 29, 2014, 01:24:37 AM
Post by: motg9_6 on April 29, 2014, 05:51:04 AM
Post by: Fullabull on April 29, 2014, 11:27:13 AM
Post by: haus on April 29, 2014, 12:06:32 PM
I find it interesting that of all the hunters I work with in the oil field, not one of them has ever brought up or complained about their fish&game department...er parks department, and we have plenty of time in the patch to complain about a lot of **** :chuckle:
Post by: returnofsid on April 29, 2014, 12:13:52 PM
With regards to general seasons...Colorado gives you a full month and they stack muzzy in the middle of it then follow up with multiple rifle season options. I don't see why we couldn't do that here too.Colorado has a much, much larger population of elk, along with a much, much smaller population of people. This results in much less hunting pressure.
I find it interesting that of all the hunters I work with in the oil field, not one of them has ever brought up or complained about their fish&game department...er parks department, and we have plenty of time in the patch to complain about a lot of **** :chuckle:
Post by: snowpack on April 29, 2014, 12:21:38 PM
Post by: motg9_6 on April 29, 2014, 12:45:58 PM
Post by: Fullabull on April 30, 2014, 09:04:20 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on April 30, 2014, 09:26:48 AM
Post by: Rainier10 on April 30, 2014, 10:06:05 AM
No way would I want to give up a week of the late season for a start date of sept 8th. You make it the 15th-30th I may go for that but I've done just fine over the last few years with our start dates as is. I would love to see it set as September 8th but I'm not willing to loose a weeks worth of hunting to get it.x2 loud and proud, no way would I give up a week for set dates.
Post by: Nice Racks on April 30, 2014, 10:18:54 AM
Post by: bobcat on April 30, 2014, 10:28:47 AM
The thing is we do have lots of options. If you don't like the archery seasons for whatever reason, buy a muzzleloader tag or a rifle tag and there you go. A different season. It's that easy. None of us are locked in to hunt only one method every year. Hunt whichever season you like best. You think the muzzleloader season is at a better time? Buy a muzzleloader tag, you still can hunt with your bow if you choose to do so.
It's kind of hard to complain about a lack of opportunity in this state. A lack of animals and an over abundance of other hunters, yes. But plenty of opportunity to hunt when and where you want.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: huntnnw on April 30, 2014, 11:22:45 PM
Post by: huntnnw on April 30, 2014, 11:25:12 PM
Then in this state if you want half the opportunity other western states get you get to apply for a multi season permit and if your lucky enough to draw a multi elk you get to spend over $200 in your home state to hunt half the season other states get at non resident prices! :bash:
Post by: bobcat on April 30, 2014, 11:30:38 PM
Its super easy to complain terrible seasons and opportunity compared to others! I live 15 min from ID and look at there opportunity! Look at MT! like this throughout the west!!
But WE are the problem! This state has too many people and as a result, too few animals. That's why there's no way this state can ever compare to any of the other western states. If they gave us the same opportunity that Idaho and other states have, we'd have no animals left.
Post by: huntnnw on April 30, 2014, 11:37:31 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on April 30, 2014, 11:39:59 PM
Why dont we get a tag and hunt whatever general season are open till we fill our tag or seasons end?See bobcats answer above...thats why.
Post by: Fullabull on May 01, 2014, 09:10:13 AM
Post by: Curly on May 01, 2014, 09:28:56 AM
Post by: Fullabull on May 01, 2014, 09:52:53 AM
Post by: Colville on May 01, 2014, 10:24:55 AM
The rest of the argument about class x getting more days or better days is equally simple. You either have to argue that the total elk harvest the state permits is too conservative or you have to argue why another group should get less harvest so that you can get either better days or more days, there's no way around it. The Bios come up with the total surplus elk, cow/spike/bull, that can be taken in a year. Those are then allocated by user group over the course of the season setting based on prior hunter days in the field and success reported. I haven't heard anyone make a case that the number they arrive at is too low.
An elk killed can be pegged to hunter days in the field and hunter days success rates relative to the dates they hunt. You can't add hunter days or higher success rate days without taking a larger bite from the surplus pie. if you do that you have to recoup that loss by restricting someone else opportunity. Unless you add animals, you can't just add opportunity without taking it from someone first.
Also, rather than looking at % of permit kills relative to the class, what's the % of permit kills compared to the % of licenses held by that group of all licenses sold?
Post by: haus on May 01, 2014, 10:44:46 PM
habitat management, lower poaching frequency, and no tribes market hunting the crap out of any elk herds.With regards to general seasons...Colorado gives you a full month and they stack muzzy in the middle of it then follow up with multiple rifle season options. I don't see why we couldn't do that here too.Colorado has a much, much larger population of elk, along with a much, much smaller population of people. This results in much less hunting pressure.
I find it interesting that of all the hunters I work with in the oil field, not one of them has ever brought up or complained about their fish&game department...er parks department, and we have plenty of time in the patch to complain about a lot of **** :chuckle:
Post by: huntnnw on May 05, 2014, 06:36:20 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on May 05, 2014, 07:04:13 AM
Post by: irishevox on May 05, 2014, 07:17:55 AM
Post by: bobcat on May 05, 2014, 07:29:50 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: pianoman9701 on May 05, 2014, 07:41:02 AM
"Extra hunt laws?" What extra laws? All states have laws to regulate hunting. I don't see how we are any different. Without the laws and the restrictions we have, there would be no game animals left.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The laws in WA are more complicated than they were back in NH. I don't know how they compare to other states, but I have a friend from MT who swears that WA is way more complicated and hard to figure out. :dunno:
Post by: returnofsid on May 05, 2014, 07:42:07 AM
"Extra hunt laws?" What extra laws? All states have laws to regulate hunting. I don't see how we are any different. Without the laws and the restrictions we have, there would be no game animals left.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That was my question as well. People keep comparing us to Idaho, Montana, Colorado, now New Hampshire...but they fail to take into consideration that we have a much, MUCH larger population, resulting in less habitat, less resources. Less resources...more people wanting those resources...results in limited resource allocation. It's simple supply and demand. There's a limited supply of animals and land, compared to those other states, and a larger demand for those animals, compared to other states. The population of Puget Sound area, alone, dwarfs the entire state population of those other states.
Post by: irishevox on May 05, 2014, 07:42:22 AM
Post by: returnofsid on May 05, 2014, 07:52:01 AM
For instance one deer a whole season? stuff like that... not being able to unt all seasons unless you have a MS permit. I am just saying. I am from louisiana orignally and there you buy your licesence and you can kill up to two deer a day. and hunt all season with one licesence.
Once again, comparing states that have absolutely no comparison, when it comes to population of people vs. Population of available game animals...
Post by: irishevox on May 05, 2014, 08:17:23 AM
Post by: snowpack on May 05, 2014, 08:58:42 AM
It's mostly a silly debate. First, other states aren't comparisons and throwing them up pretty much negates the rest of your point. We don't have the habitat volume to produce the #'s and have many more hunters that's the end of the story.I think that the westside gets enough precipitation and has mild enough winters (if you can call them winters), that it could support elk densities up to maybe 10X that of some of the other western states. So the actual habitat volume wouldn't necessarily need to be the same.
Post by: pianoman9701 on May 05, 2014, 09:22:54 AM
"Extra hunt laws?" What extra laws? All states have laws to regulate hunting. I don't see how we are any different. Without the laws and the restrictions we have, there would be no game animals left.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That was my question as well. People keep comparing us to Idaho, Montana, Colorado, now New Hampshire...but they fail to take into consideration that we have a much, MUCH larger population, resulting in less habitat, less resources. Less resources...more people wanting those resources...results in limited resource allocation. It's simple supply and demand. There's a limited supply of animals and land, compared to those other states, and a larger demand for those animals, compared to other states. The population of Puget Sound area, alone, dwarfs the entire state population of those other states.
So why does that mean our F&W laws have to be more complicated? It doesn't. One of the problems is the special permitting process. There are 30 pages of special permits. There are hunting units inside of hunting units. There are 2-pt, 3-pt, and 4-pt. minimums. Shooting hours vary from species to species depending on big game, waterfowl, predators. Animals we really want to get rid of don't even require a license in other states. They do here. Why is there even a season on Cougars? The laws in WA are far more complicated than in surrounding states.
Post by: returnofsid on May 05, 2014, 09:31:46 AM
"Extra hunt laws?" What extra laws? All states have laws to regulate hunting. I don't see how we are any different. Without the laws and the restrictions we have, there would be no game animals left.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That was my question as well. People keep comparing us to Idaho, Montana, Colorado, now New Hampshire...but they fail to take into consideration that we have a much, MUCH larger population, resulting in less habitat, less resources. Less resources...more people wanting those resources...results in limited resource allocation. It's simple supply and demand. There's a limited supply of animals and land, compared to those other states, and a larger demand for those animals, compared to other states. The population of Puget Sound area, alone, dwarfs the entire state population of those other states.
So why does that mean our F&W laws have to be more complicated? It doesn't. One of the problems is the special permitting process. There are 30 pages of special permits. There are hunting units inside of hunting units. There are 2-pt, 3-pt, and 4-pt. minimums. Shooting hours vary from species to species depending on big game, waterfowl, predators. Animals we really want to get rid of don't even require a license in other states. They do here. Why is there even a season on Cougars? The laws in WA are far more complicated than in surrounding states.
You do realize, other states have complicated laws as well. In many states, you can only hunt Turkey until noon, other states until 1:00PM. A lot of states, with cougar populations, don't allow ANY cougar hunting. Some states don't allow hunting on Sundays. A lot of states don't allow the use of Trail Cams, during hunting season, some require trail cams to be removed, a specific number of days prior to a season opening. Some states don't allow baiting for deer, requiring that bait be removed, a specific number of days prior to season opening. Some states require you to research Gamelands Regs, General Regs and even County Regs, before you can understand the hunting rules. Some states allow baiting for Turkeys, as long as it doesn't alter their behavior (try defining a change in turkey behavior), some states allow turkey baiting within certain distances of hunting location, some allow turkey baiting AND hunting over that bait, but the bait must be removed/picked up, within 10 days after hunting, while other states require the bait to be removed 10 days BEFORE hunting......here I thought turkey baiting was against federal law.
Post by: bobcat on May 05, 2014, 09:35:45 AM
September, November, and December will now be devoted to fishing, bird and predator hunting, or watching TV.
Post by: pianoman9701 on May 05, 2014, 09:37:38 AM
So to make things less complicated what would you propose? First, I'd guess you want to do away with the special permits. Okay. Then we could also do away with the special archery and muzzleloader seasons. We will simply have a deer season and an elk season, use whatever method you want. Let's have the same dates every year, and let's have deer season and elk season be the same length. How about deer season being October 1-15 and elk season will be October 16-30.
September, November, and December will now be devoted to fishing, bird and predator hunting, or watching TV.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's simpler in other states. That's all. I guess WA is so different from every other state it needs to be more complicated. OK. I'll go with that.
Post by: bobcat on May 05, 2014, 09:39:42 AM
Post by: snowpack on May 05, 2014, 09:45:24 AM
So to make things less complicated what would you propose? First, I'd guess you want to do away with the special permits. Okay. Then we could also do away with the special archery and muzzleloader seasons. We will simply have a deer season and an elk season, use whatever method you want. Let's have the same dates every year, and let's have deer season and elk season be the same length. How about deer season being October 1-15 and elk season will be October 16-30.For the new hunters, the regs can be quite confusing. They almost get the impression of it being permit only and having missed a deadline if they pick up the regs after say May 22. I don't think the system overall is as confusing as the regs make it out to be. I think it has more to do with the layout of the reg book.
September, November, and December will now be devoted to fishing, bird and predator hunting, or watching TV.
Post by: jackmaster on May 05, 2014, 12:19:34 PM
Post by: Fullabull on May 05, 2014, 02:50:17 PM
I find it funny how WDFW cannot compare the game numbers here in WA with other states (which we all agree WA has way less than everyone else) but they CAN allow the same number of breeding wolf pairs as other states....Now that does not make any sense at all!!!
Post by: dreamingbig on May 15, 2014, 06:17:53 AM
Here's the deal guys: as my wife tells our children- "You get what you get and you don't throw a fit." :chuckle:
The thing is we do have lots of options. If you don't like the archery seasons for whatever reason, buy a muzzleloader tag or a rifle tag and there you go. A different season. It's that easy. None of us are locked in to hunt only one method every year. Hunt whichever season you like best. You think the muzzleloader season is at a better time? Buy a muzzleloader tag, you still can hunt with your bow if you choose to do so.
It's kind of hard to complain about a lack of opportunity in this state. A lack of animals and an over abundance of other hunters, yes. But plenty of opportunity to hunt when and where you want.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Your logic is flawed. The squeaky wheel gets what they want. Therefore we need to keep fighting. The WDFW could care less about 'fair'.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: huntnnw on May 15, 2014, 06:50:26 AM
Post by: notsosneaky on May 21, 2014, 07:29:37 PM
Post by: buglebuster on May 24, 2014, 07:01:27 AM
My only gripe is I have waited and waited and now I have 8 quality points but can't throw em at a good old archery rut hunt. I could with a rifle. Makes no sense:(Yes you can :bash: those bulls last year on the eastside archery special hunt I helped on were screaming and coming to calls all season.
Post by: kentrek on May 24, 2014, 07:20:05 AM
Even last year we still got in at least one bugle match every day :tup:
Post by: buglebuster on May 24, 2014, 07:34:59 AM
When an area has high number of bulls puting alot of demand in an area for cows it seams the vocalizations of elk get much more intense an for a longer period of time....just my observationsI know right? Maybe some of us are just better callers than others :chuckle:
Even last year we still got in at least one bugle match every day :tup:
Post by: RadSav on May 24, 2014, 08:00:59 AM
My only gripe is I have waited and waited and now I have 8 quality points but can't throw em at a good old archery rut hunt. I could with a rifle. Makes no sense:(
Eight points!! Amateur :chuckle:
Those archery dates are just fine for bugling as long as the hunting pressure isn't too high. And I believe you have a better chance of bringing in a herd bull quality animal early than you do during the primary rut once they have their pheromone rich harem established. I don't like the early heat, but the early bugling has been outstanding for us!
Post by: kentrek on May 24, 2014, 08:57:01 AM
When an area has high number of bulls puting alot of demand in an area for cows it seams the vocalizations of elk get much more intense an for a longer period of time....just my observationsI know right? Maybe some of us are just better callers than others :chuckle:
Even last year we still got in at least one bugle match every day :tup:
That could be but im gona give alot of credit to location aswell
Dang...I guess the cats out of the bag that elk are still killable despite early dates :chuckle: