Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Muzzleloader Hunting => Topic started by: jackelope on April 25, 2014, 10:53:29 PM

Title: CVA Optima Pro NW legal? Anybody?
Post by: jackelope on April 25, 2014, 10:53:29 PM: Anyone have any experiences with this new gun yet??

http://www.muzzle-loaders.com/rifles/cva/optima/pr2024s.php

Thanks.
Title: Re: CVA Optima Pro NW legal? Anybody?
Post by: bullelk1 on May 03, 2014, 07:22:32 AM: I bought one and it is legal. I use musket caps and triple 7 powder. Still experimenting with different types of bullets. Shoots very accurately. I've found that loose powder works best and I have shot some excellent groups. Can't use a scope in Washington which is hard on my old eyes.
Title: Re: CVA Optima Pro NW legal? Anybody?
Post by: Sabotloader on May 04, 2014, 09:43:43 AM: Quote from: jackelope on April 25, 2014, 10:53:29 PM
Anyone have any experiences with this new gun yet??

http://www.muzzle-loaders.com/rifles/cva/optima/pr2024s.php (http://www.muzzle-loaders.com/rifles/cva/optima/pr2024s.php)

Thanks.

The rifle is PacNorWest legal if that were the question and to follow that up - I do not have any experiences with the rifle.

I do question the reliability of any hammer type rifles converted from shooting 209's to shooting percussion caps. In most cases the problem arises from the weaker hammer spring used to shoot primers and then add in the combination of the striker type firing pin driven by the hammer and spring. In addition the fit of the cap and the distance the cap is from the face of the receiver are critical in 100% ignition. Then add in the condition of the nipple post itself. Just many variables for my likes.

A lot of these rifles will function very well most of the time but then again...

It is my belief that shooting percussion caps reliable 100% of the time requires a positive hammer force much greater than the force needed to ignite primers. I think most of us have all been through the woes of shooting a sidehammer with percussion caps. Always considering the condition of the nipple post, the strength of the hammer spring and even the seating of the cap on the post is or can be critical. Some of the seating problems are or can be over-ridden by the strength of the hammer blow on the cap. The strength of the blow can actually seat the cap and still have enough energy to ignite the cap, might be a hang fire but it does go off in most instances.

One other thing I would add into the conversation and I can only say this regarding the Vortek series of rifles - The percussion nipple it self is very long as compared to a regular breech plug nipple. I really do prefer the powder sit on the base (touch hole) of the nipple.

This being a typical nipple

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3F%26amp%3Bid%3DHN.607989428752285778%26amp%3Bw%3D300%26amp%3Bh%3D300%26amp%3Bc%3D0%26amp%3Bpid%3D1.9%26amp%3Brs%3D0%26amp%3Bp%3D0&hash=5f36763f02fed7ce78101757973a10a3edd4c873)

And this being the type of nipple found in some Traditions

(https://www.traditionsfirearms.com/data/catalog/products/images/540/400_400/A1408.jpg)

Again it is my belief that a lot of heat from the cap can be lost in the second type nipple just heating the metal to get the hot gas to the powder. In normal hunting weather this may never be a problem, but in sub-freezing weather that we hunt in, especially the late seasons, this is a factor.

Just some personal thoughts for consideration.
Title: Re: CVA Optima Pro NW legal? Anybody?
Post by: MountainDevil54 on May 04, 2014, 01:15:22 PM: CVA is set up to use Musket caps.
Title: Re: CVA Optima Pro NW legal? Anybody?
Post by: MarkyMark on May 04, 2014, 02:27:25 PM: I purchased that very rifle you posted. I have not shot it yet. I am impressed with the fit and finish.
I was advised by the supplier, muzzle-loader.com to use T7 loose powder. I have T7 3f and some pyrodex to try in it as soon as the weather clears a little and I buy a discover pass to go to the pit in CF.
Keep us posted and I'll do the same.
Title: Re: CVA Optima Pro NW legal? Anybody?
Post by: MarkyMark on May 04, 2014, 02:29:18 PM: And yes. It uses musket caps. I got me some of those nice German caps at Sportsmans werehouse.
Title: Re: CVA Optima Pro NW legal? Anybody?
Post by: jackelope on May 06, 2014, 10:18:23 AM: Thanks for all the replies. I've decided to go with a Knight Disc Extreme.

Thanks again.

Quote from: MountainDevil54 on May 04, 2014, 01:15:22 PM
CVA is set up to use Musket caps.

I think Sabotloader's concern is the lack of any modification made to the rifle to accomodate the difference in which caps burn as opposed to primers, and the lack of a more reliable hammer strike on the different ignition styles.
Title: Re: CVA Optima Pro NW legal? Anybody?
Post by: andersonjk4 on May 08, 2014, 11:11:25 AM: This is from CVA's website regarding their new line of NW legal ML's.

"It also features an integral nipple designed for use with traditional Musket Cap primers, and the face of the plug is funnel shaped for more reliable ignition with loose propellants. Plus, a firing pin sized specifically for musket caps and a stronger firing pin spring provide fast and reliable ignition of the propellant charge. Note: CVA’s Northwest line of muzzleloading rifles were developed and tested using RWS musket caps. For this reason, we strongly recommend using RWS musket caps with these guns."

It sounds like they have addressed the failings of the previous 209 to percussion conversions by changing the firing pin and adding a stronger hammer spring.
Title: Re: CVA Optima Pro NW legal? Anybody?
Post by: MarkyMark on May 08, 2014, 01:01:47 PM: Attaboy CVA!
Title: Re: CVA Optima Pro NW legal? Anybody?
Post by: Survival Pack on May 09, 2014, 03:30:39 PM: The note saying "We recommend using only RWS musket caps" scared me enough that I bought the Disc Extreme even though I really wanted to try an Accura or Optima. My reading into that was.......it worked with RWS caps but maybe not so much with the others????? To me that means after a few years that spring might not be enough anymore??? I really wanted the easy cleaning CVA.....but above all else it must go boom when the trigger is pulled. Everything I read about Knight was positive......everyone else has major dissapointments posted all over the internet. :twocents:
Title: Re: CVA Optima Pro NW legal? Anybody?
Post by: andersonjk4 on May 10, 2014, 07:30:27 AM: CVA seems to partner with other companies and push their products for use with their muzzle loaders. CVA recommends powebelt bullets and IMR white hot pellets but that doesn't mean that they won't shoot other bullets or other powders. I would assume that if the spring is strong enough to make an RWS cap go bang then it will make any other musket cap go bang. :twocents:
Title: Re: CVA Optima Pro NW legal? Anybody?
Post by: MountainDevil54 on May 10, 2014, 11:29:29 AM: cva owners powerbelts. They do work with hodgdon and support the imr whitehots. Just like tc supports hornady and knight supports lehigh bullets.
Title: Re: CVA Optima Pro NW legal? Anybody?
Post by: MarkyMark on May 10, 2014, 08:51:50 PM: Try finding those RMS musket caps... I can't. Except for Sportsmans warehouse in Lewiston. But that's only 380 miles away.
Title: Re: CVA Optima Pro NW legal? Anybody?
Post by: MountainDevil54 on May 10, 2014, 09:33:36 PM: rws caps are very reliable and hot. CCI musket caps i am sure will work fine, they both use the same principle, just one is higher quality, or so they say :dunno:
Title: Re: CVA Optima Pro NW legal? Anybody?
Post by: LG on May 16, 2014, 08:24:24 PM: Mine should be here Monday, has anyone been out shooting theirs yet?
Title: Re: CVA Optima Pro NW legal? Anybody?
Post by: MarkyMark on May 16, 2014, 08:52:35 PM: No. But it's on my list for next week.
Title: Re: CVA Optima Pro NW legal? Anybody?
Post by: MarkyMark on May 22, 2014, 05:40:32 PM: I took mine out today for the first time. Great trigger. Powerbelts, Barnes and nosler bullets used with crush rib sabots all loaded let. Used lose 777 3fg and Pyrodex pellets. Both worked well. Pyrodex dirtied up the plug way faster. Used both German and CCI musket caps all worked well.
The Truglo ghost ring sight was a bust. Adjustment bolt heads stripped out.
Title: Re: CVA Optima Pro NW legal? Anybody?
Post by: MountainDevil54 on May 22, 2014, 07:25:58 PM: had that happen once, its from over tightening it. Email or call them, they will send a replacement screw.
Title: Re: CVA Optima Pro NW legal? Anybody?
Post by: MarkyMark on May 22, 2014, 11:22:36 PM: I already called them about the end muzzle site not working as it should. I'm sure they're tired hearing g from me.