Post by: Karl Blanchard on May 18, 2014, 12:48:57 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on May 18, 2014, 09:58:22 PM
Post by: SilkOnTheDrySide on May 18, 2014, 10:40:46 PM
Got lucky and cabelas had a close out...picked it up for 800 bucks. Made my decision easy.
I've had zero regrets, but I'm dying to get some field time behind a razor so I can see if I missed out at all!!!
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Post by: Bean Counter on May 18, 2014, 10:43:02 PM
I have Nikon HD glass (spotter and binos). Never owned Either of the brands you ask about but I have compared my Nikon side by side with both. Vortex mid range stuff looked awful by comparison and their top end stuff looked close but I prefer what I have, maybe because it's what I'm used to. As far as swaro goes their stuff is nice but I have looked through many and haven't markedly bested my glass with them. Not bad for spending less than 1/2 the cost when comparing a hot deal to swaro MSRP. If money is no object go ahead with swaro but they don't seem to run sales and people ask for higher prices on the used market. HTH.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on May 19, 2014, 08:01:11 AM
If you want to hear from people with multiple spotters, you need to go to a bird forum. I spent quite a bit of time on them a few years ago when I was researching my glass purchases. Hunters know a lot about most of our gear, but birders got our butts kicked by far when it comes to optics.I never thought about bugging the bush hippies! :chuckle: I agree that the cost of new Swaro is just not realistic for my budget. Thank you all for the input so far.
I have Nikon HD glass (spotter and binos). Never owned Either of the brands you ask about but I have compared my Nikon side by side with both. Vortex mid range stuff looked awful by comparison and their top end stuff looked close but I prefer what I have, maybe because it's what I'm used to. As far as swaro goes their stuff is nice but I have looked through many and haven't markedly bested my glass with them. Not bad for spending less than 1/2 the cost when comparing a hot deal to swaro MSRP. If money is no object go ahead with swaro but they don't seem to run sales and people ask for higher prices on the used market. HTH.
Post by: Bob33 on May 19, 2014, 08:25:24 AM
My personal favorite glass is top end Nikon.
It would be hard to bet againist Swarovski in that race, but the added cost is hard to justify when other optics are so good these days.
I suspect that between the two you are comparing, the differences are minor and come down to personal preference as much as anything. i've looked through some friend's binoculars that are crap, and they love them. They look through alpha glass and can't tell the difference.
What that means is that you are really the only judge that matters. :tup:
Post by: Karl Blanchard on May 19, 2014, 08:27:46 AM
I own a Swaro 80mm scope and have looked through many other scopes including Vortex.Good way to "look at it" :chuckle:
My personal favorite glass is top end Nikon.
It would be hard to bet againist Swarovski in that race, but the added cost is hard to justify when other optics are so good these days.
I suspect that between the two you are comparing, the differences are minor and come down to personal preference as much as anything. i've looked through some friend's binoculars that are crap, and they love them. They look through alpha glass and can't tell the difference.
What that means is that you are really the only judge that matters. :tup:
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on May 19, 2014, 09:16:09 AM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi799.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy275%2Fdeerhunter_98520%2F105_zps86391b48.jpg&hash=949e219491e4ada489dc3e4b723e5355943eaaf1) (http://s799.photobucket.com/user/deerhunter_98520/media/105_zps86391b48.jpg.html)
Here's one from mid afternoon
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi799.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy275%2Fdeerhunter_98520%2F117_zpsfdd10c15.jpg&hash=0e0f6b79bb41e415a57056b425cf52e611569640) (http://s799.photobucket.com/user/deerhunter_98520/media/117_zpsfdd10c15.jpg.html)
Post by: b23 on May 19, 2014, 09:49:13 AM
I have the mid level Nikon Fieldscope. A few years back my dad bought a new 80mm Swaro STS from Bear Basin. We put them side by side on window mounts and compared them back and forth at the same power settings up to 45 in a variety of different light conditions. In the different side by side comparisons we could only really find one noticeable difference and it was a very slight difference and that was in very low light conditions his Swaro was a tiny bit better but we both agreed it was so minimal it certainly wasn't worth the substantial difference in cost.
My dad was less than thrilled so they allowed him to send the body back and he upgraded to the HD model and paid the difference as well as they suggested he go with the wide angle 25-50 eye piece so he bought that too.
When it arrived we did the same side by side comparison but this time it was with both eye pieces, 20x60 & 25-50, and the new 80mm HD body. Results we nearly identical with the exception we thought the colors were slightly more vivid with the HD Swaro. In perfect light the results were what you'd expect and we struggled to find any difference. Overcast, shadows, or low light they were still vary comparable and it was very hard to say one was clearly better than the other. Again, in very low light the Swaro was better. The image in very low light, and when I say very low light it was in the evening at long past legal hunting hours, appeared brighter. It wasn't really any clearer but you could switch back and forth with both scopes sitting there side by side and looking at the same object the object in those conditions always appeared a little brighter in the Swaro. As for both eye pieces I liked the wide angle eye piece slightly better than the 20x60.
My dad recently switched to a new Kowa spotting scope but I've only minimally messed with it. My initial thoughts are it's going to be better straight across the board but until we hang them side by side I can't say for certain that it is and how much better it is, only time will tell.
IMO, if cost is no concern, I think Swaro makes the best binos I've ever looked thru but there spotting scopes seem to fall a bit short. Especially, when you factor in their cost.
Vortex, IMO, makes the best bang for you buck with their Viper binos and I really like their new HS-T rifle scope. BUT, I've never compared their Spotting scopes side by side and IMHO, that is the only way to truly tell.
Just a FYI, if you're in the market for a compact spotting scope you can throw in a backpack but still has excellent glass, Nikon has a little 50mm HD spotter that is unbelievably good. I think it's size throws people off but if you need a spotter you can easily pack, that little Nikon 50 HD would be my only choice.
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on May 19, 2014, 09:59:12 AM
Post by: SilkOnTheDrySide on May 19, 2014, 10:05:18 AM
I was able to sit behind my swaro for hours (10-12 per day) and not garner a headache.
I'm not saying other glass would be better or worse, just pointing out other factors that go into choosing a spotter.
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Post by: deerhunter_98520 on May 19, 2014, 10:13:36 AM
Post by: b23 on May 19, 2014, 10:13:45 AM
Maybe we need to have a spotting scope get together to compare them :tup:
That's actually not a bad idea. Not only is having another reason for being out in the woods a good idea but comparing spotters, binos, and scopes out in the area/s you'll be using them is a good idea as well. I give that :tup: :tup:
Post by: b23 on May 19, 2014, 10:23:30 AM
So just keep in mind it's not necessarily always about image quality on quick side by side comparisons (though that's important) but generally higher end glass gives you less eye fatigue.
I was able to sit behind my swaro for hours (10-12 per day) and not garner a headache.
I'm not saying other glass would be better or worse, just pointing out other factors that go into choosing a spotter.
Good point but I think most of your better stuff will be pretty comparable in that department. I've always been pretty lucky to mostly only have used, at least for any length of time that is, the better quality spotting scopes so I've never had this be a problem.
I've also got a set of 15x56 Vortex Kaibab binos that I really like and when I'm scanning searching large areas I much prefer to use those but if I'm looking at a specific spot, my spotter always trumps my Kaibabs.
Post by: Crunchy on May 19, 2014, 11:12:32 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on May 19, 2014, 05:48:36 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on May 19, 2014, 07:36:18 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on May 19, 2014, 08:37:04 PM
HD model?non HD. They do have an HD model for $2100 but I'm skeptical on its condition for that price. I sent them an email so we will see what they shoot back with.
Post by: Bigshooter on June 13, 2014, 04:38:58 AM
I just checked they still have demo's for $2000.
Post by: columbiaman on June 19, 2014, 12:45:39 PM
http://www.zen-ray.com/shop/zenspotter82-angled-demo.html (http://www.zen-ray.com/shop/zenspotter82-angled-demo.html)
Post by: JPhelps on June 19, 2014, 12:53:36 PM
You can want to check Zen-Ray ED2 spotter for $900. Optically, it is much brighter than the Vortex Razor, very similar to Swarovski ATS spotter. By much brighter, it means that you can really tell the difference. I suspect some coating in the Razor is not up the standard. Resolution wise, they are all well made.
http://www.zen-ray.com/shop/zenspotter82-angled-demo.html (http://www.zen-ray.com/shop/zenspotter82-angled-demo.html)
What Razor spotter did you look through? All of the razors I have looked through are right on par with the upper end Swarovski glass.
Post by: JPhelps on June 19, 2014, 01:04:17 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg221%2Fbigsmooth35%2F82EA9729-8D70-48C8-8CE6-5021C99BE76D_zpswvi3kgr0.jpg&hash=8a8b360fe9f1310f9136625430a50c90598b9a2e) (http://s57.photobucket.com/user/bigsmooth35/media/82EA9729-8D70-48C8-8CE6-5021C99BE76D_zpswvi3kgr0.jpg.html)
Post by: jjhunter on June 19, 2014, 01:32:27 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on June 19, 2014, 02:16:14 PM
I love my high end Nikon stuff now more than ever. Opening morning every fall I continue to be pleased when I look through it.
Post by: Benny on June 19, 2014, 03:45:48 PM
Post by: jjhunter on June 19, 2014, 04:19:12 PM
Huh? What glass are you using?? :dunno:
I love my high end Nikon stuff now more than ever. Opening morning every fall I continue to be pleased when I look through it.
I've owned 12 pieces of Alpha glass from the top 3 and either owned/demo'd most everything else on the way up. I'd say that qualifies me to an opinion?
Benny - right there with you brother.
Post by: MtnMuley on June 19, 2014, 04:24:10 PM
I hate spotters. I could sit behind a set of 10's or 15's for twenty hours a day, smiling and loving every second of it, 20 seconds of looking through a spotter and I'm ready to take a nap. Unfortunately spotters are a necessary evil.
I agree as well. Have you used the newer HD Swaro with the 95mm obj yet?
Post by: SCRUBS on June 19, 2014, 04:38:40 PM
I use an 80 HD, but to tell you the truth, I have never been really impressed with any spotter. One thing a lot of guys don't take into consideration is how glass performs after a couple seasons of use. The high end stuff doesn't waiver - a lot of stuff that looks good at first, starts to slip over time...
What causes the glass to deteriorate?
Post by: Benny on June 19, 2014, 04:39:45 PM
I agree as well. Have you used the newer HD Swaro with the 95mm obj yet?
Just a peak but haven't really sat behind them for any time. Sure are cool.
Have you seen the new 15s? Worth every red, financed penny.
Post by: jjhunter on June 19, 2014, 04:50:16 PM
I use an 80 HD, but to tell you the truth, I have never been really impressed with any spotter. One thing a lot of guys don't take into consideration is how glass performs after a couple seasons of use. The high end stuff doesn't waiver - a lot of stuff that looks good at first, starts to slip over time...
What causes the glass to deteriorate?
I am not making a blanket statement here, but my guess would be inferior lense coatings and seals.
Post by: jjhunter on June 19, 2014, 04:55:31 PM
I agree as well. Have you used the newer HD Swaro with the 95mm obj yet?
Just a peak but haven't really sat behind them for any time. Sure are cool.
Have you seen the new 15s? Worth every red, financed penny.
I need a pair! Sold my "old ones". Now just need to pull the trigger on the HD version.
Post by: Bean Counter on June 19, 2014, 06:46:13 PM
Huh? What glass are you using?? :dunno:
I love my high end Nikon stuff now more than ever. Opening morning every fall I continue to be pleased when I look through it.
I've owned 12 pieces of Alpha glass from the top 3 and either owned/demo'd most everything else on the way up. I'd say that qualifies me to an opinion?
Benny - right there with you brother.
Are you cleaning them with Windex or some other ammonia based product? :dunno:
Post by: jjhunter on June 19, 2014, 06:51:04 PM
Huh? What glass are you using?? :dunno:
I love my high end Nikon stuff now more than ever. Opening morning every fall I continue to be pleased when I look through it.
I've owned 12 pieces of Alpha glass from the top 3 and either owned/demo'd most everything else on the way up. I'd say that qualifies me to an opinion?
Benny - right there with you brother.
Are you cleaning them with Windex or some other ammonia based product? :dunno:
Yep, windex and a shop towel. :chuckle:
Post by: Bean Counter on June 19, 2014, 07:50:04 PM
Post by: jjhunter on June 19, 2014, 07:58:44 PM
Post by: Benny on June 19, 2014, 08:19:04 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on June 19, 2014, 11:09:45 PM
I've never had an issue with high end stuff. That was my point.
Gotcha. I went back and reread your post.
Post by: MtnMuley on June 20, 2014, 06:01:05 AM
I have not. My 15's never seem to make it on the hill, let alone out of the house. HD EL 10's and spotter it is for me.I agree as well. Have you used the newer HD Swaro with the 95mm obj yet?
Just a peak but haven't really sat behind them for any time. Sure are cool.
Have you seen the new 15s? Worth every red, financed penny.