Post by: kingsalmonkllr77 on November 29, 2008, 09:16:53 PM
Post by: Ryan on November 29, 2008, 09:20:11 PM
Post by: bobcat on November 29, 2008, 09:31:51 PM
Post by: HighCountry10 on November 29, 2008, 10:20:11 PM
Post by: kingsalmonkllr77 on November 29, 2008, 10:58:04 PM
Post by: DeerHarvester on November 29, 2008, 11:41:13 PM
Post by: 3dsheetmetal on November 30, 2008, 10:19:03 AM
Post by: HawkenBob on November 30, 2008, 10:39:39 AM
The Quinalts have a season from July to Dec. Any method, any game, any time. With very libral bags...
They cant go off res, and you cant go on.
It aint just the hunting. Fishing too.
But, we cant change it. Its Federal. Unless you read the treaty, you really wont understand. And if you have your amazed at the obsurdity. I know I am. Its way out of date.
So some live on, fustraded and voicing it, and some reach new levels of ignorance and show it to everyone.
Post by: buckhorn2 on November 30, 2008, 11:20:06 AM
Post by: MAVsled on November 30, 2008, 11:33:46 AM
3 miles in or so and I hear what sounds like a truck coming up the road behind me. thought it would be a timber company vehicle but NO, pickup with tribal hunters and 2 of them in the pickup bed, sitting on cargo box, carrying rifles.
what I'd like to know is; why do they get gate keys on private timberlands?!!
let em hunt, they claim it is their right, yep shoot em up kinda of fellas was MHO after they briefly talked with me... but MAKE THEM WALK OR BIKE IN.
Then they wouldn't pile the deer on trucks and maybe take them one at a time or not at all.
Post by: bobcat on November 30, 2008, 11:38:03 AM
what I'd like to know is; why do they get gate keys on private timberlands?!!
GREAT question. I was wondering the same thing myself. It just doesn't make sense.
Surely the feds aren't requiring the private timber companies to provide keys to these poachers/hunters? :dunno:
Post by: logger on November 30, 2008, 11:53:15 AM
Post by: blindpig on November 30, 2008, 07:31:42 PM
Post by: kingsalmonkllr77 on November 30, 2008, 07:36:15 PM
Post by: logger on November 30, 2008, 07:56:13 PM
Post by: HawkenBob on December 01, 2008, 06:28:11 AM
Heard two quinaults shot 2 bulls up the wishka in a farmers field and got ticketed by the game wardens for hunting off reservation.
Sad thing is nothing will happen. And they know it. Thats why they do it. There untouchable from any state law. State will not fight them. Its a loosing battle.
Post by: TheHunt on December 01, 2008, 08:35:17 AM
I hate to say this but its only going to get worse. With all of the indian casino's, they are making money hand over fist and are buying up tons of land. I know in recent years they have bought huge portions of land in the peninsula area (forks) They will essentially buy a bigger reservation. It sucks. :bash:
Then why do hunters go into those places? I have never put a foot into an Indian Casino and never will for that reason.
Post by: pendoreilleadventures on December 01, 2008, 09:09:42 AM
Post by: Hillbilly270 on December 01, 2008, 10:51:13 AM
Heard two quinaults shot 2 bulls up the wishka in a farmers field and got ticketed by the game wardens for hunting off reservation.
I live in the same valley where these two elk got shot, but i don't know if they got ticketed or not. I know they actually went to the landowners house and asked if they could drive in his field to get thier elk. he told them to F'off and if they tried to drive in he would shoot them. They had to cut'em up and pack em out.
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on December 01, 2008, 11:02:08 AM
I work for the Kalispel Indian Tribe and It is my understanding that natives even with treaty hunting rights can still only hunt land that are unclaimed aka national forest,state land and some state parks if in their treaty. it is ILLEGAL for them to hunt Private lands out of season!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was told, at least by Okanogan and Ferry County officials that the tribe's can hunt private land within the treaty sessions area, if they notify the landowner first before entering.
Post by: buckhorn2 on December 01, 2008, 11:29:24 AM
Post by: clindsayrun on December 01, 2008, 01:41:47 PM
I signed up for the class because, like many of you, I didn't understand why tribal populations in Washington are given such lax regulation when it comes to hunting and fishing.
Long story short, back in the 1800's plenty of treaties were signed guaranteeing the tribes the same rights they possess today. The Supreme Court has repeatedly upheld these treaties. As Treaty Law in the United States is set in stone. The only ones to blame are the original settlers of the Pacific North West who wrote such skewed treaties.
Nothing is ever going to change and there is nothing anyone can do about it.
All one can do is hope that the majority of tribal sportsmen have an understanding of their responsibilities to the great outdoors, the sporting community and the rest of us.
Post by: HawkenBob on December 01, 2008, 02:07:56 PM
Heres more for anyone who wants to know more.
"In the mid-1800s, Isaac Stevens, the first governor of the Washington Territory, negotiated treaties with Native American tribes for the peaceful settlement of their traditional lands. By signing the “Stevens Treaties,” tribes reserved the right to continue traditional activities, such as hunting.
The 24 tribes that have off-reservation hunting rights in Washington can set hunting regulations for their tribal members. Those tribes can allow members to hunt on open and unclaimed land – public land that is managed in a way that is consistent with hunting – within their ceded area or within an area proven to have been traditionally used by the tribe."
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/tribal/index.html
Post by: fishunt247 on December 01, 2008, 05:04:49 PM
Post by: Firstlight on December 01, 2008, 07:26:03 PM
Post by: Shannon on December 01, 2008, 07:41:48 PM
Not to single you out but what planet have you been on to think the fishing would be worse off without indians. Come to where I live and watch nets stretched across the entire river and see the bi-catch of endangered species on a daily basis. Or watch them set there nets and get drunk and forget about them for a week. Or see entire nets suspended in the air full of rotting fish when the tide goes out at the rivers mouth. Or watch humpy after humpy floating down river whole after they through them away out of there nets while fishing for other fish. Yeah, we would be in a world of hurt if there weren't any indians to safe guard our natural resources.
Post by: WOODS on December 01, 2008, 07:43:31 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on December 01, 2008, 08:00:59 PM
I have never put a foot into an Indian Casino and never will for that reason.
I totally agree. I may not be able to stop the tribes from hunting, but I will stop them from getting any of my discretionary cash.
There are 24 tribes in wash who can hunt off res as long as they have proven ancestrial hunting took place there. All 24 tribes have proved it.
How can the puyallup tribe prove that it hunted St Helens Johnson Ridge at over 4500' elevation in the winter. They now just drive up and blast a cow or bull from the pavement with a rifle. Have they convinced someone they used to travel over 100 miles away in the winter to hunt elk?
How about the "aancestral" hunting of Rocky Mountain Elk, introduced into this state in 1913? How can the Yakima tribe claim ancestral hunting for any elk?
This state sucks *censored*.
If I was elected President, I would end all the treaties by declaring war against the tribes for an hour or so. Trash the treaties, and welcome the damn tribes to the United states, now go get a job and pay taxes like the rest of us! >:( >:( >:(
Post by: billythekidrock on December 01, 2008, 08:12:18 PM
The Govenor gets campaign funding from WA tribes. You figure it out. >:(
She has done alot for those bribes...I mean tribes.
Here is a bit of a letter that came to me about the tribes and the Gov.
"The treaties established Indian tribes as sovereign nations, distinct and separate governments within the United States. In Washington, I’m proud to say that we have healthy working relationships with the 29 federally recognized tribes in our state.
The Governor’s Office of Indian Affairs takes the lead in promoting these relationships, helping state agencies operate in ways that are sensitive to the needs of tribal members and that support tribal self-sufficiency.
On Aug. 4, 1989, the state and its federally recognized tribes signed the Centennial Accord, which committed to maintaining mutually respectful government-to-government relationships. Each state agency, including **********, wrote a working plan to achieve the goals of the accord. If you’re interested, you can read our plan on the Office of Indian Affairs Web site.
Interestingly, Governor Gregoire helped draft the Centennial Accord when she worked as an assistant attorney general during Governor Booth Gardner’s administration. Then, when she became governor in 2005, she issued a proclamation reaffirming the goals of the accord and pledging her support."
Post by: ICEMAN on December 01, 2008, 08:16:52 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on December 01, 2008, 08:56:13 PM
No problem singling me out, I don't mind. And I said on "some rivers" the Indians do quite a bit. I have seen horrible pictures of nets stretched across the mouths of entire river systems on the westside. I have seen some of the sturgeon caught in Columbia River nets wasted as well. That really sucks, bad. I had rivers like the Klickitat and Yakima in mind. On the Klickitat, one of the few places they practice traditional dipnetting still, the Indians help tag/study the fish, help with the hatchery plants, etc. On the Yakima they are largely responsible for the spring chinook runs, and are helping the WDFW try to restore the steelhead run. And just this summer they fixed the dam to Cle Elum Lake to allow fish passage and planted some 300,000 sockeye smolts there. Don't get me wrong, I know exactly where you are coming from and talking about, but I guess I just think we shouldn't ignore the good things they do too. All people do *censored*ty things no matter what race.
Post by: bobcat on December 01, 2008, 09:52:52 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on December 01, 2008, 09:55:18 PM
Post by: ElkTipper on December 01, 2008, 10:12:14 PM
It makes for great press (in the Indians favor ?) when they place their nets across the front of the fish ladder entry way at the Locks here in Seattle. Posted approximately 20 yards away were the tribal police making sure that their "tribal rights" were not infringed upon. The emotions were running pretty high amongst all the locals who detested their "tribal right" to not leave any means for the fish to make it up the fish ladder and into the underwater public viewing and fish counting area. I was absolutely dumbfounded at their level of stupidity. OK, I will take a breath..... On the other hand if that is their "legal" right then my hands are tied and the only legal recourse I have is to protest, complain and support proponents who desire to change the status to something more in align with my belief structure. One of the things that really ticks me off is that the Indians are allowed to "subsistence hunt" multiple animals to support their families/tribe. I have "heard" in reality they sell the meat for profit. I would love to find proof of this. I really struggle with Indian rights!!! After living in Glasgow AFB adjacent to the reservation and going to school with many cool and generous Indian friends (one who froze to death during a Friday night drunken spree with my friends), witnessing firsthand the racism and hatred held against them, the lack of personal incentive and goals to be productive in their lives, etc., etc. etc. Living in Rapid City South Dakota growing up with and interfacing with the Sioux Indians was also a real interesting experience. I have some really mixed emotions about this whole issue.
Here is another positive issue occurring concerning the Bolt Decision here in Washington. I know this one takes us a little off the "Hunting" focus of this forum but it is a real interesting read on how the tribes are fighting amongst themselves and in the long run may benefit all of us if we can get a new decision concerning the validity of the original Bolt Decision. http://www.flyfishingforum.com/flytalk4/showthread.php?t=8816 (http://www.flyfishingforum.com/flytalk4/showthread.php?t=8816) Wasn't Bolt suffering from Dementia or Alzheimer's in the final stages of that ruling? I heard they tried to shuffle that under the rug?
Ok I am off my horse and out of my saddle ready for whatever comes my way. Keep in mind God loves us all whether Black, White, Purple or any other skin color or specific race for that matter. Part of our purpose for this existence it to learn how to coexist and get along with each other in as positive and mutually supportive way as possible.
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on December 01, 2008, 11:06:30 PM
Post by: DeerHarvester on December 02, 2008, 12:02:17 AM
I work for the Kalispel Indian Tribe and It is my understanding that natives even with treaty hunting rights can still only hunt land that are unclaimed aka national forest,state land and some state parks if in their treaty. it is ILLEGAL for them to hunt Private lands out of season!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was told, at least by Okanogan and Ferry County officials that the tribe's can hunt private land within the treaty sessions area, if they notify the landowner first before entering.
That is BS :liar: they can not hunt private land. PERIOD, unless you own land on the Rez. that is anouther story and you basicly don't own the land on the rez.
Post by: Palmer on December 02, 2008, 05:42:03 AM
I hear a lot of blaming on both sides of the fence but what we do to each other we do to ourselves.
The federal government made Indians "Wards of the State". It seems with all the social programs going into affect over the years, we are all going to be "Wards of the State." If you think socialized medical care is a good deal, go ask Indians about the quality of health care they've received from our government. I've heard stories of the wrong teeth being pulled and other problems.
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on December 02, 2008, 07:45:53 AM
I work for the Kalispel Indian Tribe and It is my understanding that natives even with treaty hunting rights can still only hunt land that are unclaimed aka national forest,state land and some state parks if in their treaty. it is ILLEGAL for them to hunt Private lands out of season!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was told, at least by Okanogan and Ferry County officials that the tribe's can hunt private land within the treaty sessions area, if they notify the landowner first before entering.
That is BS :liar: they can not hunt private land. PERIOD, unless you own land on the Rez. that is anouther story and you basicly don't own the land on the rez.
I assume you are referring to me? I have a tribal sessions map, given to me by the State Indian Affairs Officer which shows the Colville's as having hunting rights up to within approximately 30 miles of the Canadian border, OFF reservation lands. Show me different?
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on December 02, 2008, 07:50:32 AM
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on December 02, 2008, 08:23:23 AM
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/tribal/treaty_history.html
All that being said on this tangent, back to the issue on this topic. I never been put off by the tribe's rights guaranteed in the treaties, but rather that the State's own citizen's do not have equal rights off reservation lands.
Post by: fishunt247 on December 02, 2008, 08:54:21 AM
Post by: sss5358 on December 02, 2008, 11:25:04 AM
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on December 02, 2008, 11:37:01 AM
Post by: ElkTipper on December 02, 2008, 12:08:55 PM
"Treaties are formal contracts between sovereign nations and in the United States are sources of federal law. As federal law, treaties preempt inconsistent state law under the Supremacy Clause of the Federal Constitution. The courts have ruled that state regulation of tribal exercise of off-reservation hunting rights on open and unclaimed land is preempted by the Stevens Treaties, except where state regulation is necessary for conservation purposes. "
Post by: fishunt247 on December 02, 2008, 03:52:52 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on December 02, 2008, 06:07:34 PM
Heard two quinaults shot 2 bulls up the wishka in a farmers field and got ticketed by the game wardens for hunting off reservation.
Sad thing is nothing will happen. And they know it. Thats why they do it. There untouchable from any state law. State will not fight them. Its a loosing battle.
A fed once told me that the only thing that could happen to them is a tresspassing/private property type ticket, BUT it has to be reported by the land owner.
Post by: Alan K on December 02, 2008, 09:43:44 PM
A bit off topic, but I took the buck I killed on September 1 this year into the meat shop, and was surprised to see it was nowhere near the first animal that had been brought in. I asked the woman about the deer and elk that were brought in in July/August, and she told me that they were all tribal kills. Pissed me off to say the least.
Post by: kingsalmonkllr77 on December 04, 2008, 07:21:54 PM
Post by: strutnrut1984 on December 04, 2008, 07:27:11 PM
Post by: kingsalmonkllr77 on December 04, 2008, 08:21:55 PM
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on December 04, 2008, 11:22:35 PM