Post by: Shane54 on July 21, 2014, 10:19:01 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on July 21, 2014, 10:22:52 PM
Post by: Shane54 on July 21, 2014, 10:25:17 PM
Post by: huntnphool on July 21, 2014, 10:34:23 PM
Post by: Shane54 on July 21, 2014, 10:37:57 PM
Post by: bobcat on July 21, 2014, 10:39:42 PM
Post by: Dan-o on July 21, 2014, 10:47:02 PM
It's what all the Varsity football players are shooting. 8)
I jest.
But, I am a fan of the 7MM Rem Mag and the 300 Win Mag.
Given all of those 270's, I'd skip the 7MM and go to the 300 Win Mag.
Post by: KFhunter on July 21, 2014, 10:49:12 PM
What are they not doing for you that a 300RUM will?
Post by: huntnphool on July 21, 2014, 10:52:39 PM
You've already got 270's, a 7 mag wouldn't be much improvement, and neither would a 300 WSM. I'd stick with what you really want, the 300 Ultra. Or, you could go 7mm Ultra, slightly less recoil and still plenty of range.
With comparable bullets the 7mm is about 150 fps faster, about 300 ft lbs more, 3-4 inches flatter and a couple inches less in wind drift at 500 yards than the .270, not to mention a wider selection of bullets. :tup:
Both are capable of killing deer/elk but the 7mm is my go to caliber.
And yes, I own and shoot both calibers. ;)
Post by: Damnimissed on July 21, 2014, 10:56:16 PM
Post by: 270Shooter on July 21, 2014, 10:58:54 PM
Post by: huntnphool on July 21, 2014, 11:00:16 PM
Buy a 300 win and be done with it. It's a very versatile round.
This wouldn't be a bad option either actually Shane, but if you want good deal on a 300, then take my advice and wait until after hunting season is done, there are generally half a dozen at a time in our classifieds from guys getting rid of them. :chuckle:
Post by: bobcat on July 21, 2014, 11:01:24 PM
You've already got 270's, a 7 mag wouldn't be much improvement, and neither would a 300 WSM. I'd stick with what you really want, the 300 Ultra. Or, you could go 7mm Ultra, slightly less recoil and still plenty of range.
With comparable bullets the 7mm is about 150 fps faster, about 300 ft lbs more, 3-4 inches flatter and a couple inches less in wind drift at 500 yards than the .270, not to mention a wider selection of bullets. :tup:
Both are capable of killing deer/elk but the 7mm is my go to caliber.
And yes, I own and shoot both calibers. ;)
7 mag is a great cartridge, no doubt about it. Just saying, if it were me, and I wanted an increase in performance over my 270, I'd want a bit more of a noticeable increase in effectiveness. The 270 and 7 mag. aren't that much different. Just as your numbers show, if it's only a few inches we're talking at 500 yards, it's insignificant. Most people nowadays use rangefinders, and with either cartridge you have to aim high at 500 yards. If you know the drop, it really makes no difference which cartridge you're shooting.
Again, get the 300 Ultra, or stick with the 270's. :tup:
Post by: bobcat on July 21, 2014, 11:03:07 PM
I wouldn't want to shoot a ultra mag without a brake to be honest with you. And since I'm not a fan of brakes I'd go with a 7 mag or maybe a 300 wsm. If you are going to put a brake on you might as well go big or go home with a 300 rum or 30-378 wby. My ears are already ringing just thinking about it lol.
I gotta agree with this as well! :chuckle:
Post by: KFhunter on July 21, 2014, 11:16:15 PM
Already a lot of suggestions and debate, yet no one's asked Shane54 what he wants to do with the gun :rolleyes:
Shane..
You looking for a mountain top rifle, a 1000 yard cinder block exploder...or an Elk gun?
Do you plan to reload for it or modify the gun?
A lot of questions before I'd toss out a recommendation.
Post by: Shane54 on July 21, 2014, 11:23:14 PM
Post by: Damnimissed on July 21, 2014, 11:46:15 PM
Shane..
You looking for a mountain top rifle, a 1000 yard cinder block exploder...or an Elk gun?
Do you plan to reload for it or modify the gun?
[/quote]
Like I said, get a .300 WM and be done with it. Hell, you can do all three at the same time! 1000 yd shot at an elk from a mountain top! :chuckle:
Post by: huntnphool on July 22, 2014, 12:14:53 AM
Remember guys......this is about Shane54 :chuckle:
Already a lot of suggestions and debate, yet no one's asked Shane54 what he wants to do with the gun :rolleyes:
He said "am looking for more power & powder" :dunno:
Post by: grundy53 on July 22, 2014, 06:33:11 AM
Buy a 300 win and be done with it. It's a very versatile caliber.:yeah:
sent from my typewriter
Post by: Bob33 on July 22, 2014, 06:41:04 AM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on July 22, 2014, 07:56:41 AM
Post by: jasnt on July 22, 2014, 08:05:59 AM
A 300 rum would be an outstanding gun... i love mine. But a 300 win with a heavy berger would be great medicine as well withless powder. 215 berger at 2800...
I agree. 100% though my 300wm prefers the 185 vld
Post by: BULLBLASTER on July 22, 2014, 08:16:41 AM
my rum and the 215 hybrid is amazing! 185 vld is no slouch either tho!A 300 rum would be an outstanding gun... i love mine. But a 300 win with a heavy berger would be great medicine as well withless powder. 215 berger at 2800...
I agree. 100% though my 300wm prefers the 185 vld
My first rifle was a 7mm mag that my dad bought me in the 7 th grade and i shot light loaded 120 grain bullets until i was proficient enought to handle a heavier load.
Post by: kentrek on July 22, 2014, 08:23:10 AM
Realistically its a 0-1000 yard cartridge, its shootable, its cheap to shoot idk the list goes on
The midle magnums are a waist of time in mordern days (I know it stings) but if ya want more power to shoot further(which is why we need more power ?? ) than the shortmags will get you than ya might as well go to the stuff with 80+grains of powder
But this gets really expensive.....
Figure out what you need than figure out what it takes to get there
:tup: just my :twocents: btw
Post by: Killmore on July 22, 2014, 08:28:14 AM
Post by: MarkyMark on July 22, 2014, 08:30:45 AM
Post by: headshot5 on July 22, 2014, 08:31:25 AM
Actually as has been suggested a 300 Win mag will do all you need. :tup:
Post by: huntinguy on July 22, 2014, 08:38:52 AM
I just prefer the 338, more frontal mass and with those two rifles there really is nothing walking on this continent that I would worry about.
IF that ain't enough gun 338 Lapua :drool:
Post by: MADMAX on July 22, 2014, 08:47:28 AM
4-500 hundred and put a good scope on
kill anything in NA
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on July 22, 2014, 08:59:02 AM
It requires some practice and skill to shoot a large caliber rifle. Given your size, you can handle the recoil fine. I am 6'2, 185 and haven't been man handled by my 338 RUM yet. I also haven't had any issues sighting it in or target practicing with out a lead sled. I haven't missed an elk with it yet either. Sure Ive get a nice bruise on my shoulder after a target practice session, but that's part of it.
Get to know your rifle, learn to shoot it and manage the recoil, and you will be much better in the long run.
1 very important piece of advice is to buy a scope that can 1. handle the recoil and 2. has a nice long eye relief.
Post by: grundy53 on July 22, 2014, 08:59:58 AM
Go to sportsmans and buy a Roy .257 WTBY Vanguard blue and syntheitcI love mine. 25 caliber bullet and almost the same amount of powder as my three hundred win mags!
4-500 hundred and put a good scope on
kill anything in NA
Post by: Curly on July 22, 2014, 09:04:14 AM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on July 22, 2014, 09:04:23 AM
Post by: RadSav on July 22, 2014, 09:05:09 AM
I am a big fan of the old standard magnums - 7Rem, 300Win and 338Win. IMO the 270 WIN has nothing on the 7REM. Especially if you want a long range weapon. The 300 WIN just may be the most versatile cartridge ever made with available gun and ammo choices. And when you want to pound the turds out of elk it is really dang hard to beat the 338. The other benefit to these as "hunting" magnums is they perform well from 24" barrels. While you get more from them in longer barrels it is not essential to see their benefits. Whereas the RUM and Weatherby really need to have longer barrels to exceed the performance levels you would get from the old standard magnums.
I do like the 270, 300 and 325 Short Mags. But they do have their limitations. You can run them in shorter barrels and shorter actions. They are handi to carry and all of mine are tack driving SOB's. But all three of mine are lightweight guns and are more punishing at the range than my old standards making them less fun to shoot when game is not the intended target. None of them do anything I can not do with the old standards other than be housed in light weight back country rifles.
You are 18! If you are not eager to get married you will have one of each soon! My advise...Buy them all, buy them now and buy what ever the heck you want before some sexy young thing ties you down and the two of you spawn the Devil's offspring :chuckle:
Post by: Shane54 on July 22, 2014, 09:11:05 AM
Post by: bobcat on July 22, 2014, 09:12:55 AM
Post by: Shane54 on July 22, 2014, 09:21:12 AM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on July 22, 2014, 09:26:21 AM
To answer some questions. I am looking for a gun that will easily shoot 700+ yards! kill an elk at 500. And not be to potent for mule deer. @radsav I like the way you think! What's the opinion on a 7mm rum? Or 7mm stw
6.5 Creedmoor
6.5x284
Both will do what you've been asking about and not a magnum.........
Post by: jasnt on July 22, 2014, 09:38:12 AM
But this gets really expensive.....
yes it does. My 300 eats up powder at 74.2 grains a bite. That's only 94 shots a pound! The rum will be closer to 80 shots per lb.
Learn to reload and you can make that magnum a do-all gun. I even load my 300 for coyote. Shooting a 125gr. SST at 3350fps
Post by: RadSav on July 22, 2014, 09:41:24 AM
To answer some questions. I am looking for a gun that will easily shoot 700+ yards! kill an elk at 500. And not be to potent for mule deer. @radsav I like the way you think! What's the opinion on a 7mm rum? Or 7mm stw
Wasteful...but that's just me ;)
Sounds to me like you really want a max powder burn rifle. If that's what you want buy one. You can afford to take crazy risks at 18! That's how you learn life's most valuable lessons.
Post by: tonymiller7 on July 22, 2014, 09:50:42 AM
I think you get the point. Don't let anybody tell you what you SHOULD buy or what you NEED to buy. Or you don't need that, blah blah blah. Go and buy EXACTLY what you want!! It's your money, and you sound like you know enough that you won't get yourself into trouble. And it sounds like you'll have enough dough to buy a super nice rifle in any caliber YOU CHOOSE! Plus you're turning 18, so I hope you go and buy a tack driving long range cannon of your choice that could kill a tank. And you know what else, I'm jealous that you get to do that. Congratulations on turning 18!!!
Disclaimer: I know in this thread you are asking for opinions but it sounded like you pretty much had your mind made up in the classifieds.
Post by: headshot5 on July 22, 2014, 09:52:53 AM
Quote
To answer some questions. I am looking for a gun that will easily shoot 700+ yards! kill an elk at 500. And not be to potent for mule deer. @radsav I like the way you think! What's the opinion on a 7mm rum? Or 7mm stw
Haha! Get a 270 Win... :chuckle: It will do all of the above with the right bullet. Really what I think you should do is look into getting some good glass and maybe a 300 Win mag or a 338 Win mag.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on July 22, 2014, 09:57:58 AM
I also agree get what you want! I personally love to shoot big bullets so i have a 300 rum and a 375 h&h that shoot pretty big bullets.
Post by: brokenvet on July 22, 2014, 10:06:33 AM
To answer some questions. I am looking for a gun that will easily shoot 700+ yards! kill an elk at 500. And not be to potent for mule deer. @radsav I like the way you think! What's the opinion on a 7mm rum? Or 7mm stw
Barret rifle .50BMG :chuckle: will do what you want and then some.
Although I own a 7mm Rem mag just in case I decide to hunt the great bears, other than that I am not a magnum fan.
Post by: Shane54 on July 22, 2014, 10:08:47 AM
Post by: RadSav on July 22, 2014, 10:09:55 AM
I know in this thread you are asking for opinions but it sounded like you pretty much had your mind made up in the classifieds.
I agree. Go buy what you want and who cares what I think!
I really wanted a 340 Weatherby in my youth. And I mean I Really Wanted A 340 Weatherby!! :chuckle: So I set aside deckhand tips until I had enough to buy the exact fancy 340 I wanted! After a few boxes of shells I realized I did not like the long barrel, noise and the excessive recoil. So I took a loss and sold the gun.
So was it a bad decision to buy that gun? Heck no! I learned if I set a goal I could obtain great things. I learned that improving the service I gave customers improved my return. And I also learned I did not like the 340 Weatherby. If I hadn't learned that lesson I would still be wanting one today. Now I know. All lessons worth the price of selling a gun below what I paid for it.
Post by: Woodchuck on July 22, 2014, 10:18:47 AM
I have a pretty good idea of what I want. I'm making sure I'm just not going straight for something with out consideration of other rifles. I'm loving all of these opinions guys! I think I've narrowed it down to 7mm rum 300rum and 300wsm. What do you guys think out of these three calibers. I might think About a 338 also. The 257 wby is a sweet rifle just not pushing the bullets I want.Most animals can't tell and don't care what bullets are being thrown at them. Buy what you want and shoot it well. :tup:
Post by: Bofire on July 22, 2014, 10:29:06 AM
Carl
Post by: Bean Counter on July 22, 2014, 10:37:45 AM
Post by: jay.sharkbait on July 22, 2014, 10:39:10 AM
To answer some questions. I am looking for a gun that will easily shoot 700+ yards! kill an elk at 500. And not be to potent for mule deer. @radsav I like the way you think! What's the opinion on a 7mm rum? Or 7mm stw
Wasteful...but that's just me ;)
Sounds to me like you really want a max powder burn rifle. If that's what you want buy one. You can afford to take crazy risks at 18! That's how you learn life's most valuable lessons.
What does age have to do with it?
Post by: Shane54 on July 22, 2014, 10:42:44 AM
Post by: Curly on July 22, 2014, 11:03:57 AM
Post by: WoodlandShooter on July 22, 2014, 01:44:32 PM
Here is the deal. I thought long and hard about my current build, and am glad I did it. I also gound that if I truelly want more performance than what my 270 will do I MUST step up to a mimimum of a 338L...or possibly a 300RUM with 230 Grain Bergers
A 270 shooting a bullet with a G1 BC of over .6 is wicked (there are currently two bullets out there like this Matrix 165 with a .638 and Nosler 150 ABLR with a .625)
The ABLR will stabilize in a 1-10 twist barrel, and a good reloader should be able to get 2900 FPS with it ( I have a 27" tube and am getting 3000 FPS)
The Matrix will stabilize in a 1-9 twist tube, I am getting 2850 with these. I ran the dope for this load and well, it's running almost identical trajectory as a 300 Mag shooting 210's (actually the 270 has about 25 yards more supersonic range)
Which is why if I want more, it's time for a 338 LApua, or possibly a 300 RUM shooting 230 grain Bergers.
IMHO, going to a big magnum for better performance under 500 yards is a waste. One would be better served with better shot placement, and a basic 308, or a 270 with 130's and even standard 150's
Post by: Bean Counter on July 22, 2014, 01:49:52 PM
Quote
IMHO, going to a big magnum for better performance under 500 yards is a waste. One would be better served with better shot placement, and a basic 308, or a 270 with 130's and even standard 150's
Well said. Also, if you want to reach out to 500-1,000 yards, you'd better put some nice glass in that ultra mag
Post by: WoodlandShooter on July 22, 2014, 01:53:03 PM
Post by: bearpaw on July 22, 2014, 01:56:52 PM
I didn't read all the comments and may have missed it, if you reload then that's a whole different story, there are lots of possibilities as everyone has suggested. :chuckle:
Post by: Shane54 on July 22, 2014, 02:15:14 PM
Post by: Stein on July 22, 2014, 02:33:35 PM
1) put $1,000 into glass for your 270
2) put $800 into professional training and ammunition
Post by: kentrek on July 22, 2014, 02:53:29 PM
as a couple of you know, I am a 270 Winny fan!!
Here is the deal. I thought long and hard about my current build, and am glad I did it. I also gound that if I truelly want more performance than what my 270 will do I MUST step up to a mimimum of a 338L...or possibly a 300RUM with 230 Grain Bergers
A 270 shooting a bullet with a G1 BC of over .6 is wicked (there are currently two bullets out there like this Matrix 165 with a .638 and Nosler 150 ABLR with a .625)
The ABLR will stabilize in a 1-10 twist barrel, and a good reloader should be able to get 2900 FPS with it ( I have a 27" tube and am getting 3000 FPS)
The Matrix will stabilize in a 1-9 twist tube, I am getting 2850 with these. I ran the dope for this load and well, it's running almost identical trajectory as a 300 Mag shooting 210's (actually the 270 has about 25 yards more supersonic range)
Which is why if I want more, it's time for a 338 LApua, or possibly a 300 RUM shooting 230 grain Bergers.
IMHO, going to a big magnum for better performance under 500 yards is a waste. One would be better served with better shot placement, and a basic 308, or a 270 with 130's and even standard 150's
Pretty much my thoughts exactly.....only thing is even tho the numbers are the same its hard to compare what a extra 50grains of bullets exploding inside of a critter will do...but thats if your shooting bergers...if you wana just poke holes in stuff it really wont matter
Such a simple question :chuckle:
Post by: Shane54 on July 22, 2014, 03:12:44 PM
Post by: WoodlandShooter on July 22, 2014, 03:16:07 PM
Anyone know anything about the 7mm rum
all my reloading books say it eats barrels...
Post by: bobcat on July 22, 2014, 03:17:43 PM
Post by: h20hunter on July 22, 2014, 03:18:01 PM
For what its worth....here is my take on your dilema. If you have the cash then go for whatever floats your boat. Eventually youwill have less cash, less time, less energy, less endurance for the punishment, less stamina to hump a big boy rifle all over to hell and back....and lots of excuses why not. You wan't a big boom big boy mag get to it and don't look back. Live it up and protect your ears!
Post by: WoodlandShooter on July 22, 2014, 03:26:20 PM
as a couple of you know, I am a 270 Winny fan!!
Here is the deal. I thought long and hard about my current build, and am glad I did it. I also gound that if I truelly want more performance than what my 270 will do I MUST step up to a mimimum of a 338L...or possibly a 300RUM with 230 Grain Bergers
A 270 shooting a bullet with a G1 BC of over .6 is wicked (there are currently two bullets out there like this Matrix 165 with a .638 and Nosler 150 ABLR with a .625)
The ABLR will stabilize in a 1-10 twist barrel, and a good reloader should be able to get 2900 FPS with it ( I have a 27" tube and am getting 3000 FPS)
The Matrix will stabilize in a 1-9 twist tube, I am getting 2850 with these. I ran the dope for this load and well, it's running almost identical trajectory as a 300 Mag shooting 210's (actually the 270 has about 25 yards more supersonic range)
Which is why if I want more, it's time for a 338 LApua, or possibly a 300 RUM shooting 230 grain Bergers.
IMHO, going to a big magnum for better performance under 500 yards is a waste. One would be better served with better shot placement, and a basic 308, or a 270 with 130's and even standard 150's
Pretty much my thoughts exactly.....only thing is even tho the numbers are the same its hard to compare what a extra 50grains of bullets exploding inside of a critter will do...but thats if your shooting bergers...if you wana just poke holes in stuff it really wont matter
Such a simple question :chuckle:
agreed!!
270 only has 1000 foot pounds @ 1000 yards. The 300 Mag definately has more
Post by: Shane54 on July 22, 2014, 03:28:29 PM
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on July 22, 2014, 03:38:48 PM
Anyone know anything about the 7mm rum
I have read that is one of the RUMs that fell short. It didn't offer a big enough difference in trajectory or velocity over the other options for 7mm mags. I should say that I think thats what I read regarding the 7mm RUM, it could have been one of the other RUMs. If you have a reloading book, the write ups on the different calibers are very helpful for gain unbiased advice.
This may also be helpful...
http://www.chuckhawks.com/7mmRem_Ultra_Mag.htm (http://www.chuckhawks.com/7mmRem_Ultra_Mag.htm)
Post by: CAMPMEAT on July 22, 2014, 03:46:38 PM
Post by: huntnphool on July 22, 2014, 03:47:50 PM
I've got another buddy building one right now too.
Here is a link http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek071.html (http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek071.html) that will explain a little bit about it. :tup:
Post by: Biggerhammer on July 22, 2014, 04:45:33 PM
Buy a 300 win and be done with it. It's a very versatile caliber.:yeah:
sent from my typewriter
:yeah:
Post by: yorketransport on July 22, 2014, 07:28:49 PM
:) Keep your best 270, and step up, no sense going for a 7mm or 300, get at least a 338.
Carl
This is some of the best advice you'll get! :tup:
As soon as you mentioned elk, the 338 became the most logical choice. The fast 7mm mags are great for long range shooting and medium (deer) sized critters, but when you get into elk at any range the 338 really shines. For everything else, the 270 will work.
Being a fan of impractically large, overbore chamberings, the 7mm RUM is always a good choice. Out to your 700 yard range though I don't think it's necessary. The 7 WSM will do it just as well and with less trouble. When you get into the small bore RUMs (7mm and 300) they can be finicky to load for. Heavy bullets at top speed are the best in the big cases or else they can become inconsistent.
If you want to really step up from the 270, I'd go straight to a case capable of throwing 250gr or heavier bullets at over 2700 fps. 500 yards is pretty far, but not exactly into the "holy cow I need a laser guided bullet to make that hit" range. :chuckle: As far as just a "plinking" gun for out to, and well beyond, 700 yards a 338 Win Mag will do pretty well when loaded with some of the 250gr bullets. I shoot my 338/375 Ruger Striker to 800 yards with the 250gr MK and that duplicates the performance of a 338 Win Mag from a rifle. The combination is capable of going well beyond that, I just have other guns for shooting 1000 + yards.
Or if you really just want to step up to the big boys, then ignore the 7mm, 30, and 338 rounds all together. The 375s are when it starts to get really interesting! Get your hands on some of the 350gr Sierra MKs and stuff them into a 375 RUM case (or something bigger :tup:) and go have some real fun!
Enjoy the searching, planning, and investigating. It's more fun actually shooting the gun if you ask me. :chuckle:
Andrew
Post by: bowhunterwa87 on July 22, 2014, 07:37:59 PM
Post by: Dan-o on July 22, 2014, 08:39:59 PM
Clearly you are a man and want a true man's rifle. Therefore, ignore any of the advice about pansy rounds like a 300 RUM or 416.
My advice: Do it right!
Get one of these and be done. remember: More power, more powder!!!!
Tactical-Life.com: Three shots with the Anzio 20mm (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ft2j6J4NcY#ws)
And remember: Nobody has EVER punched an elk in the shoulder with a 20mm Ack Ack round and had it get away...... Ever.
Post by: Shane54 on July 22, 2014, 08:52:01 PM
Post by: BNAElkhntr on July 22, 2014, 08:57:54 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Shane54 on July 22, 2014, 09:01:32 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on July 22, 2014, 09:08:02 PM
Post by: Curly on July 23, 2014, 05:44:43 AM
:drool: only if ammo prices were around 60 I would get a 338rumSo, are you saying you are only going with factory ammo? I guess I assumed you would be reloading since you even mentioned the STW.
Post by: coachcw on July 23, 2014, 06:21:53 AM
Post by: b23 on July 23, 2014, 08:07:49 AM
I've always liked the bigger .30 cal cartridges and in my opinion they are the best all around caliber you can go with.
If I was looking to scratch the itch you have and it needed to be done in a factory rifle and cartridge, I'd get a 300RUM. I'm still a big fan of 300wby mag. and it would be a good choice too. If you are looking for something with a little less recoil, you can never go wrong with a 300 Win. Mag. either. There's a guy over on long range hunting dot com that I know, his screen name is Broz, and Jeff, aka Broz, and his 300win mag have a pretty impressive list of one shot kills ranging from antelope to numerous, branched antler, big bulls. With many of them shot at ranges exceeding well over 600 yards.
If you want to step up to one of the .338's they're fun too and there are plenty of choices to choose from. I'd go with a 338 Lapua because there brass quality is second to none but if you don't reload, that won't matter to you very much. I had a 338-378wby mag. and they are a fun, powder burning hog but in a factory rifle like the Weatherby Accumark, they barey outrun the 338 Lapua or 338 RUM and you pay a PREMIUM for factory ammo. In a store bought, factory rifle chambered in 338 something or other, a 338 RUM or 338 Lapua would be, IMO, the better choice.
Post by: jay.sharkbait on July 23, 2014, 08:15:21 AM
Post by: KenPCPilot on July 23, 2014, 08:27:12 AM
Post by: h2ofowlr on July 23, 2014, 08:34:56 AM
Post by: TwoSixFourWins on July 23, 2014, 09:06:20 AM
Post by: KFhunter on July 23, 2014, 09:40:07 AM
Take that $1800 bucks you got and save it for a trade school, college or continued education #1
ok ok ok I digress..... :chuckle:
baring the excellent above advice.
Take that $1800 bucks you got and buy a reloading kit, a simple rock chucker will do.
Sell two 270's and buy a .308 Remington 700.
Shoot the 308 until you've maxed out it's factory preformance - fine tune your loads until you just can't shoot it any better then shoot it some more.
buy a benchmark barrel, learn how to install it. Learn how to work loads for it shoot shoot shoot shoot tweaking your loads as you go.
When you get more money stick a jewell trigger in it - shoot it more
extend your range until you've got dope and cards for 1000 yards.
500 yard shot on a mule will seem easy at this point.
A big fancy gun burning gobs of powder and tossing big lead isn't going to make you a shooter, at best it's a crutch for someone who can't shoot, at worst it's going to give you bad shooting form.
It sounds to me like you can shoot "ok" (and that's a good start) but you've no concept of precision long range shooting and you're trying to compensate by going bigger and larger.
I suggest you search for a mentor or join a long range shooting group in your area. If you only ever want to be a mediocre shooter the rest of your life buy the biggest magnum you can and punch huge nasty blood shot holes in your animals.
Post by: Bofire on July 23, 2014, 09:49:30 AM
Carl
Post by: KFhunter on July 23, 2014, 09:50:11 AM
You're going to blow north of 1000 bucks for a decent off the shelf factory gun, after taxes you'll plunk down 1200 bucks or so.
Then you'll plunk down another 150 for ammo.
After that's all done you'll have just enough left for low grade glass, a bushnell trophy xlt or something china made
you won't shoot it much because after you've sighted it in your shoulder is purple. You won't say anything though because your a football stud and "can take a hit".
Then you'll take it hunting and blow the hell out of a mule deer buck at 75 yards leaving a gaping hole you could stuff a football through.
Post by: Bob33 on July 23, 2014, 09:50:13 AM
A big fancy gun burning gobs of powder and tossing big lead isn't going to make you a shooter, at best it's a crutch for someone who can't shoot, at worst it's going to give you bad shooting form.What he said. "Beware the man with one gun who knows how to use it."
If you only ever want to be a mediocre shooter the rest of your life buy the biggest magnum you can and punch huge nasty blood shot holes in your animals.
Post by: jasnt on July 23, 2014, 10:15:40 AM
Ok here is my advice. Take it for what it's worth, and I'm sure it's NOT what you want to hear.
Take that $1800 bucks you got and save it for a trade school, college or continued education #1
ok ok ok I digress..... :chuckle:
baring the excellent above advice.
Take that $1800 bucks you got and buy a reloading kit, a simple rock chucker will do.
Sell two 270's and buy a .308 Remington 700.
Shoot the 308 until you've maxed out it's factory preformance - fine tune your loads until you just can't shoot it any better then shoot it some more.
buy a benchmark barrel, learn how to install it. Learn how to work loads for it shoot shoot shoot shoot tweaking your loads as you go.
When you get more money stick a jewell trigger in it - shoot it more
extend your range until you've got dope and cards for 1000 yards.
500 yard shot on a mule will seem easy at this point.
A big fancy gun burning gobs of powder and tossing big lead isn't going to make you a shooter, at best it's a crutch for someone who can't shoot, at worst it's going to give you bad shooting form.
It sounds to me like you can shoot "ok" (and that's a good start) but you've no concept of precision long range shooting and you're trying to compensate by going bigger and larger.
I suggest you search for a mentor or join a long range shooting group in your area. If you only ever want to be a mediocre shooter the rest of your life buy the biggest magnum you can and punch huge nasty blood shot holes in your animals.
Best advice giving so far!
Post by: superdown on July 23, 2014, 10:16:24 AM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on July 23, 2014, 10:27:27 AM
i knew i was missing something along the way... :yike:
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on July 23, 2014, 10:29:19 AM
As someone just starting to dabble in LR stuff, a few things have become quickly obvious. If your not reloading. Your really not in the game. Unless you just have a ton of disposable income, and can find factory loads your gun likes.
90 percent (or better) of the guns running around in the woods today will far outshoot the operator, but more importantly ( since the operator can fix this without big investment in shooting time) the glass mounted on it. Including my own dinky 270.
Im with KF, If your looking to get into longrange shooting, start with fundementals, a solid, proven, and cheap caliber to reload for. And spend the money on the best glass, rangefinder, and reloading equipment you can. :twocents:
Post by: jay.sharkbait on July 23, 2014, 10:35:24 AM
I am very glad to have just read that because i shoot a 300 rum that i cant shoot and have bad shooting form. :rolleyes:
i knew i was missing something along the way... :yike:
I love these threads
Post by: BULLBLASTER on July 23, 2014, 10:41:39 AM
:yeah: :chuckle:I am very glad to have just read that because i shoot a 300 rum that i cant shoot and have bad shooting form. :rolleyes:
i knew i was missing something along the way... :yike:
I love these threads
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 23, 2014, 11:21:48 AM
Post by: bobcat on July 23, 2014, 11:24:01 AM
I gotta say that I love the title of this thread. I'm picturing an anti-gunner seeing it and completely losing their mind. :chuckle: :chuckle:
Even better would be "what long range high powered sniper rifle would you suggest for a teen?"
:o
Post by: b23 on July 23, 2014, 11:33:00 AM
Ok here is my advice. Take it for what it's worth, and I'm sure it's NOT what you want to hear.
Take that $1800 bucks you got and save it for a trade school, college or continued education #1
ok ok ok I digress..... :chuckle:
baring the excellent above advice.
Take that $1800 bucks you got and buy a reloading kit, a simple rock chucker will do.
Sell two 270's and buy a .308 Remington 700.
Shoot the 308 until you've maxed out it's factory preformance - fine tune your loads until you just can't shoot it any better then shoot it some more.
buy a benchmark barrel, learn how to install it. Learn how to work loads for it shoot shoot shoot shoot tweaking your loads as you go.
When you get more money stick a jewell trigger in it - shoot it more
extend your range until you've got dope and cards for 1000 yards.
500 yard shot on a mule will seem easy at this point.
A big fancy gun burning gobs of powder and tossing big lead isn't going to make you a shooter, at best it's a crutch for someone who can't shoot, at worst it's going to give you bad shooting form.
It sounds to me like you can shoot "ok" (and that's a good start) but you've no concept of precision long range shooting and you're trying to compensate by going bigger and larger.
I suggest you search for a mentor or join a long range shooting group in your area. If you only ever want to be a mediocre shooter the rest of your life buy the biggest magnum you can and punch huge nasty blood shot holes in your animals.
This is actually some pretty darn good advice. Well done KF!
But, for precision shooting at distance, I'd change your lineup just a little. I would sell 2 of the 3 270's you have then take the 3rd one and send it to Benchmark and have them install a new barrel on it chambered in 6.5-284. Depending on the stock that's on it, I'd also have them, at the least, skim bed it. Hopefully, one of the 3 is a Rem 700 because that will make a great starting point for you. If it's a Rem 700 you can also have Benchmark tune the trigger down to a nice 2.5lbs and it will only cost you about $50.
Buy a reloading kit like KF suggested then get the reloading DVD that Shawn Carlock made and sells. Don't worry about a 6.5-284 being barrel burner either. It should easily go 1500rnds with no problem as long as you give it a few moments between shots. Throats get burnt out because of people shooting to fast without giving it time to cool a little bit. Nothing wrong with a 308 but if shooting at distance is what you want to get into, a 6.5-284 is a better choice and you can use Lapua brass and 200rnds of Lapua brass will last you a very long time.
Get really good with shooting your 6.5-284 w/140s at distance and you may not ever need anything else and if you decide you want to go bigger at a later time, you'll be a much better shooter for it. Also, with whatever money you have, buy the very best scope you can afford because when you start dialing up and down, you're going to want a quality scope or you'll just be throwing money and time away.
Post by: KFhunter on July 23, 2014, 12:09:54 PM
So that won't mess with his hunting season just around the corner.
It would suck to have your gun in pieces waiting for parts and hunting season a week away.
So I'd suggest leaving the bread and butter hunting gun alone, and go pick up a learning rig to take apart and shoot take apart again and go shoot more.
Can't beat a 308 for that really. 6.5-284 is a bit more sexy I'll give you that but I still gotta say 308 for the first learner gun.
The idea is the same though, work his way up.
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 23, 2014, 12:13:03 PM
I gotta say that I love the title of this thread. I'm picturing an anti-gunner seeing it and completely losing their mind. :chuckle: :chuckle:
Even better would be "what long range high powered sniper rifle would you suggest for a teen?"
:o
:chuckle:
Post by: Shane54 on July 23, 2014, 12:34:49 PM
Post by: WoodlandShooter on July 23, 2014, 12:36:17 PM
Ok here is my advice. Take it for what it's worth, and I'm sure it's NOT what you want to hear.
Take that $1800 bucks you got and save it for a trade school, college or continued education #1
ok ok ok I digress..... :chuckle:
baring the excellent above advice.
Take that $1800 bucks you got and buy a reloading kit, a simple rock chucker will do.
Sell two 270's and buy a .308 Remington 700.
Shoot the 308 until you've maxed out it's factory preformance - fine tune your loads until you just can't shoot it any better then shoot it some more.
buy a benchmark barrel, learn how to install it. Learn how to work loads for it shoot shoot shoot shoot tweaking your loads as you go.
When you get more money stick a jewell trigger in it - shoot it more
extend your range until you've got dope and cards for 1000 yards.
500 yard shot on a mule will seem easy at this point.
A big fancy gun burning gobs of powder and tossing big lead isn't going to make you a shooter, at best it's a crutch for someone who can't shoot, at worst it's going to give you bad shooting form.
It sounds to me like you can shoot "ok" (and that's a good start) but you've no concept of precision long range shooting and you're trying to compensate by going bigger and larger.
I suggest you search for a mentor or join a long range shooting group in your area. If you only ever want to be a mediocre shooter the rest of your life buy the biggest magnum you can and punch huge nasty blood shot holes in your animals.
WOW..have you been on my gun safe!!!
the ONLY difference is I used a 270 Winny, and a Weatherby MKV action, and a timney trigger...oh and I have dope to a mile!!! :)
Post by: WoodlandShooter on July 23, 2014, 12:47:15 PM
Yes I have given the 308 much consideration. But at 500 yards it only has 1093ft lbs of energy. To cleanly kill an elk it is recommended 1200lbs. I am looking for something that I can use to kill anything in NA at 500+ yards. And shoot at the range up to 1000. The 308 is a great caliber and a long range rifle. Not a long range hunting rifle. This is why I am leaning towards the 300wsm.
FYI,
a 270 Winny shooting a 150 Grain NABLR at 2900 FPS has 1500 foot pounds at 525 yards, 1000 foot pounds at 825 yards, and starts going trans-sonic at 1300 yards...
a 308 is more of a medium range rifle...in reality it's toast at 900 yards. However, I know one guy make a mile shot this year at Findaly with one...but he was out of scope travel etc...etc...
Post by: jasnt on July 23, 2014, 12:48:58 PM
Post by: WoodlandShooter on July 23, 2014, 12:55:28 PM
It can produce 5 shot groups out of my rifle at just under 1MOA.
It does not have the energy down range you are looking for, but here is what it will do.
1500 foot pounds @ 375 yards
1000 foot pounds @ 600 yards
Trans-sonic @ 1000 yards
Post by: RadSav on July 23, 2014, 01:05:13 PM
Yes I have given the 308 much consideration. But at 500 yards it only has 1093ft lbs of energy. To cleanly kill an elk it is recommended 1200lbs. I am looking for something that I can use to kill anything in NA at 500+ yards. And shoot at the range up to 1000. The 308 is a great caliber and a long range rifle. Not a long range hunting rifle. This is why I am leaning towards the 300wsm.
IMO, for what it is worth, I think you are leaning in a pretty good direction. The 30 cal is a great versatile caliber and should do everything you are wanting with reserve to spare. With exception of the Tikka most of the WSM factory actions I've played around with the magazine box and action length is rather tight. Makes little difference if you are choosing factory ammo, but if you plan on doing a lot of 1,000 yard shooting you will probably want to start reloading some time in the future. And that means you'll more than likely want to play with some of the wonderful high BC bullets. That may pose a problem with factory gun chambers for a WSM cartridge. As well as powder cramping when you get into those 200 grain plus rounds.
Both the 300WSM and the 300WM are near equals when talking about that 500 yard elk rifle. However, in my opinion, the WinMag offers more flexibility as a 1,000 yard target/sniper rifle. The WM's ability to accept high BC bullets well and the fact the added weight of most factory 300WM rifles makes shooting discipline and technique less an issue. Still important! But, a bit less of an issue.
Both cartridges are fantastic! Both will give you what you are looking for. And both have a niche the other does not. Really hard to go wrong with either. But for me personally...I'd probably go 300WM over the short mag as a dual purpose gun. If just elk hunting that would be one tough decision. So tough...I own both! :chuckle:
Post by: WoodlandShooter on July 23, 2014, 01:06:03 PM
My pet 150 NABLR load is running ~3000 FPS.
1500 foot pounds at 575 yards
1000 foot pounds at 875 yards
Trans-sonic at 1375 yards
Out of my rifle, a little over 0.5 MOA (pictured is a target at 200 yards)
Post by: kentrek on July 23, 2014, 01:21:27 PM
Maybe bearpaw could give his insite too
You guys have alot of experience using lighter than standerd bullets, prolly some longer shot stories?????
Could help the op out
Post by: RadSav on July 23, 2014, 01:57:28 PM
It may take some time to get my thoughts on this well organized. I'll try to give a good well described answer this evening.
Post by: kentrek on July 23, 2014, 02:04:58 PM
Post by: jasnt on July 23, 2014, 02:09:54 PM
Im sure rad will have a much better answer. But this is what I've used as guide lines for me :tup:
Post by: b23 on July 23, 2014, 04:38:03 PM
I ask because if at least one of them is a Rem 700 and a 300wsm or 300win mag is what you really want, there is no way I would buy another off the shelf factory rifle when I could take one of what I already had, send it to someone like Benchmark and let them open the bolt face to .534 and install a M16 type extractor. They'll hang a new barrel and cut the chamber using a match grade reamer with whatever amount of free bore you want.
If one of your current 270's is a suitable donor and a 300 something is what you have your heart set on, you will spend about the same money but you'll have a semi custom rifle that will shoot far better than any you could buy off the shelf.
Post by: Shane54 on July 23, 2014, 04:51:07 PM
Post by: jay.sharkbait on July 23, 2014, 04:58:28 PM
Browning xbolt and 2 mod 70s
Push feed or controlled round feed on the model 70's?
Post by: pd on July 23, 2014, 05:23:12 PM
And, nothing snarky said yet. (I did like the Trojan comment, however.)
Post by: Shane54 on July 23, 2014, 05:31:10 PM
@pd I never thought it would be this big. I am honored!
Post by: Stein on July 23, 2014, 05:40:49 PM
I've always been told that 1000 ft/lbs is preferable for clean kills on elk/ bear size game, 700 for deer and 250 for coyote. I've always used that as a guide for range limits,also my ability to keep it under moa.
Im sure rad will have a much better answer. But this is what I've used as guide lines for me :tup:
You also want the velocity to open the bullet. I shoot TSX and they need 1,800 fps.
Post by: RadSav on July 23, 2014, 05:43:53 PM
I've always been told that 1000 ft/lbs is preferable for clean kills on elk/ bear size game, 700 for deer and 250 for coyote. I've always used that as a guide for range limits,also my ability to keep it under moa.
Im sure rad will have a much better answer. But this is what I've used as guide lines for me :tup:
You also want the velocity to open the bullet. I shoot TSX and they need 1,800 fps.
The need one heck of a lot more than that unless you hit bone!
Post by: Stein on July 23, 2014, 05:59:54 PM
I've always been told that 1000 ft/lbs is preferable for clean kills on elk/ bear size game, 700 for deer and 250 for coyote. I've always used that as a guide for range limits,also my ability to keep it under moa.
Im sure rad will have a much better answer. But this is what I've used as guide lines for me :tup:
You also want the velocity to open the bullet. I shoot TSX and they need 1,800 fps.
The need one heck of a lot more than that unless you hit bone!
I got that number from the manufacturer. It's a moot point for me as I'm still at 1800 fps at 425 with the 30-06 and I don't shoot over 300 yards.
Post by: Beargravy on July 23, 2014, 06:21:13 PM
Post by: Damnimissed on July 23, 2014, 06:25:57 PM
Yes I have given the 308 much consideration. But at 500 yards it only has 1093ft lbs of energy. To cleanly kill an elk it is recommended 1200lbs. I am looking for something that I can use to kill anything in NA at 500+ yards. And shoot at the range up to 1000. The 308 is a great caliber and a long range rifle. Not a long range hunting rifle. This is why I am leaning towards the 300wsm.
IMO, for what it is worth, I think you are leaning in a pretty good direction. The 30 cal is a great versatile caliber and should do everything you are wanting with reserve to spare. With exception of the Tikka most of the WSM factory actions I've played around with the magazine box and action length is rather tight. Makes little difference if you are choosing factory ammo, but if you plan on doing a lot of 1,000 yard shooting you will probably want to start reloading some time in the future. And that means you'll more than likely want to play with some of the wonderful high BC bullets. That may pose a problem with factory gun chambers for a WSM cartridge. As well as powder cramping when you get into those 200 grain plus rounds.
Both the 300WSM and the 300WM are near equals when talking about that 500 yard elk rifle. However, in my opinion, the WinMag offers more flexibility as a 1,000 yard target/sniper rifle. The WM's ability to accept high BC bullets well and the fact the added weight of most factory 300WM rifles makes shooting discipline and technique less an issue. Still important! But, a bit less of an issue.
Both cartridges are fantastic! Both will give you what you are looking for. And both have a niche the other does not. Really hard to go wrong with either. But for me personally...I'd probably go 300WM over the short mag as a dual purpose gun. If just elk hunting that would be one tough decision. So tough...I own both! :chuckle:
Well said RadSav, +1 for the 300 WM. thanks for saving me from writing that. Although your explanation is much better than mine would've been...oh, and I also own both.
Post by: demontang on July 23, 2014, 06:32:44 PM
Post by: RadSav on July 23, 2014, 06:44:17 PM
My Dall sheep I killed with my bow was shot earlier that day with a Barnes TTSX at 425 yards from a 7 RemMag. diaphram, lungs and bullet was just under the hide behind the far shoulder. Didn't seem all that much worse for wear. Though I rushed the stalk, got busted and would have never gotten him had he not been hurting.
I've seen similar issues in California when guys have used .270 cal Barnes for exotic goat and sheep. Those certainly aren't the solid beef sticks a large muledeer or elk is, but it does challenge the manufacturers claim of minimum useful velocity. The more solidly built hogs I've seen taken at closer ranges where velocities have been (I'm guessing) around 2,600 to 2,400 fps were a different story. The Barnes simply hammered the bageeses out of them!
Bearpaw Jr. has a video on the Bearpaw Outfitters website where she shoots a moose with the 257 Wby and Barnes bullets at reasonably long range. He pounds him with a few shots, but you can tell he is pretty much toast after the first shot! I'd guess impact velocity was near 2,400 :dunno: Cool video. If you haven't seen it yet it's worth checking out.
Post by: wildweeds on July 23, 2014, 06:56:26 PM
Post by: RadSav on July 23, 2014, 07:18:56 PM
It's not labled as a magnum but I'd say 26 Nosler would be worth a try.
I have not seen any 26 Nosler factory ammo yet. Anyone know what that stuff is going for yet? Anyone shot the gun?
Post by: huntnphool on July 23, 2014, 07:22:46 PM
It's not labled as a magnum but I'd say 26 Nosler would be worth a try.
I have not seen any 26 Nosler factory ammo yet. Anyone know what that stuff is going for yet? Anyone shot the gun?
Jerry has one, maybe he has shot it by now. :dunno:
Post by: snowpack on July 23, 2014, 07:24:03 PM
Post by: wildweeds on July 23, 2014, 07:25:04 PM
It's not labled as a magnum but I'd say 26 Nosler would be worth a try.
I have not seen any 26 Nosler factory ammo yet. Anyone know what that stuff is going for yet? Anyone shot the gun?
Post by: yorketransport on July 23, 2014, 10:06:41 PM
It's not labled as a magnum but I'd say 26 Nosler would be worth a try.
I haven't played with the 26 Nosler, but the 6.5 Badger that I've been playing with is a ton of fun. The Badger is like a 26 Nosler +P. :tup:
For all of you guys offering "reasonable" advice, you're ruining this game for all of us! The goal here is to help boost the economy by convincing him to buy something new. :chuckle:
Andrew
Post by: WoodlandShooter on July 24, 2014, 09:23:39 AM
Not sure about any availability but the early reviews I read about it's ballistics and range really sparked my interest,especially the 1250 ft lbs of smack down at 800 yards.It's not labled as a magnum but I'd say 26 Nosler would be worth a try.
I have not seen any 26 Nosler factory ammo yet. Anyone know what that stuff is going for yet? Anyone shot the gun?
hmmm well, according to my dope, a 150NABLR at 2900 MV carries exactly 1242 Foot Pounds at 800 yards. I am using a slightly Modified Pesja Excell Spreadsheet
oh and with a 200 yard zero, it has dropped 133.8 inches, or 23.25 MOA (standard atmospheric conditions)
2.6 MOA for a 5 MPH wind at full value
it looks like a 270 Winny could do exactly what he wants.
Post by: WoodlandShooter on July 24, 2014, 09:37:35 AM
I live on the wet side of the state, most of my hunting is actually done with my 12 gauge, and my last deer was shot under 75 yards with a 3" mag slug.
The woods are so stinking thick, that my 270 is almost worthless especially when it gets foggy. at that point I may drop to my 6.8 SPC AR-15, or if I walk over into the BattleGround unit, I will just grab the shotgun.
If I was hunting the dry side, then I may look at a longer shot than 100 yards for actual hunting
Post by: KFhunter on July 24, 2014, 09:58:14 AM
Just thinin pout loud here.
I live on the wet side of the state, most of my hunting is actually done with my 12 gauge, and my last deer was shot under 75 yards with a 3" mag slug.
The woods are so stinking thick, that my 270 is almost worthless especially when it gets foggy. at that point I may drop to my 6.8 SPC AR-15, or if I walk over into the BattleGround unit, I will just grab the shotgun.
If I was hunting the dry side, then I may look at a longer shot than 100 yards for actual hunting
99% of my WT deer were shot under 100 yards
Post by: jasnt on July 24, 2014, 10:10:37 AM
Just thinin pout loud here.
I live on the wet side of the state, most of my hunting is actually done with my 12 gauge, and my last deer was shot under 75 yards with a 3" mag slug.
The woods are so stinking thick, that my 270 is almost worthless especially when it gets foggy. at that point I may drop to my 6.8 SPC AR-15, or if I walk over into the BattleGround unit, I will just grab the shotgun.
If I was hunting the dry side, then I may look at a longer shot than 100 yards for actual hunting
99% of my WT deer were shot under 100 yards
Same here. I just like shooting long range. Now my bear grounds is another story 400-600 yards is the norm
Post by: snowpack on July 24, 2014, 10:16:19 AM
If I thought I'd never see an animal beyond 100 yards again, I'd be carrying the old .45-70 or .30-30 Win. But when I do carry something like that...it doesn't fail--I come across a big meadow/avalanche chute/slide/river bar/canyon/clearcut and some animal is out strutting around 300 yds without a care.Just thinin pout loud here.
I live on the wet side of the state, most of my hunting is actually done with my 12 gauge, and my last deer was shot under 75 yards with a 3" mag slug.
The woods are so stinking thick, that my 270 is almost worthless especially when it gets foggy. at that point I may drop to my 6.8 SPC AR-15, or if I walk over into the BattleGround unit, I will just grab the shotgun.
If I was hunting the dry side, then I may look at a longer shot than 100 yards for actual hunting
99% of my WT deer were shot under 100 yards
Post by: Bofire on July 24, 2014, 10:58:57 AM
Carl
Post by: bearpaw on July 24, 2014, 11:27:16 AM
My wtb:300 rum topic seemed to spark a lot of conversations and opinions. So let's continue it here boys! To answer questions I am:6'1 195 lbs , almost 18, varsity football player. Proficient marksmen. I already have 3 270's and am looking for more power & powder :tup:. Tell me what you think about me getting a magnum rifle, and what it should be :tup:.
Since you've got three 270's and no magnum sell a 270 and buy your magnum rifle. If you get the right make it will be guaranteed 1moa or less accuracy out of the box. If you get a Wthby Vanguard II then it will only cost you a few more dollars than you will get for the 270. :tup:
The actual differences between most magnums is pretty minimal, if you are buying loaded ammunition then stick to what's the most affordable to shoot. The more you shoot that gun the better you will shoot it. As I mentioned before, if you buy loaded ammunition I'd get a 7mm Rem or 300 Win Mag since ammo is very affordable for either. I would get that caliber in the Vanguard II for an excellent affordable choice with guaranteed .99 or better moa accuracy. You might want to learn to reload then you can afford to shoot any of the new exotic magnums because cartridge cost will then be a minimal factor. :twocents:
FYI: http://www.weatherby.com/vanguardseries2/ (http://www.weatherby.com/vanguardseries2/)
7mm Rem. Mag. $489...24"...7 1/4 lbs...blued
.300 Win. Mag. $489...24"...7 1/4 lbs...blued
7mm Rem. Mag...$689...24"...7 1/4 lbs...stainless
.300 Win. Mag...$689...24"...7 1/4 lbs...stainless
I've always been told that 1000 ft/lbs is preferable for clean kills on elk/ bear size game, 700 for deer and 250 for coyote. I've always used that as a guide for range limits,also my ability to keep it under moa.
Im sure rad will have a much better answer. But this is what I've used as guide lines for me :tup:
You also want the velocity to open the bullet. I shoot TSX and they need 1,800 fps.
I think you need at least that much speed for the Barnes, for the larger calibers (338ish as an example) I think you need more speed to open a Barnes. As much as I like the TTSX for an all around hunting bullet I believe there are better bullets for extreme long range hunting. For long range a lot of guys seem to like the bergers. Honestly, there doesn't seem to be a perfect bullet for all ranges, I think a guy is best to have at least two types of bullets that shoot well in your gun.
The foot lb minimums mentioned are probably close as a good general rule of thumb. However, a gut shot bear/elk/moose with 1500+ lb energy may never be found whereas a spinal shot with half that energy will take down the same animal immediately which illustrates the importance of shot placement.
Manufacturer is a bit optimistic with their numbers. While the tip may split at 1,800 it doesn't often exceed bore diameter at such speeds. Bigger diameter bullets like those of the 338 and 375 seem to be better at low velocities. But none should be considered highly effective at velocities less than 2,200.
My Dall sheep I killed with my bow was shot earlier that day with a Barnes TTSX at 425 yards from a 7 RemMag. diaphram, lungs and bullet was just under the hide behind the far shoulder. Didn't seem all that much worse for wear. Though I rushed the stalk, got busted and would have never gotten him had he not been hurting.
I've seen similar issues in California when guys have used .270 cal Barnes for exotic goat and sheep. Those certainly aren't the solid beef sticks a large muledeer or elk is, but it does challenge the manufacturers claim of minimum useful velocity. The more solidly built hogs I've seen taken at closer ranges where velocities have been (I'm guessing) around 2,600 to 2,400 fps were a different story. The Barnes simply hammered the bageeses out of them!
Bearpaw Jr. has a video on the Bearpaw Outfitters website where she shoots a moose with the 257 Wby and Barnes bullets at reasonably long range. He pounds him with a few shots, but you can tell he is pretty much toast after the first shot! I'd guess impact velocity was near 2,400 :dunno: Cool video. If you haven't seen it yet it's worth checking out.
We've killed at least three moose with the 257 wtby, I've seen probably 10 bear killed all with one shot, and I killed my cow elk last winter one shot at over 500 yds with my 257. There is a reason it was Roy Weatherby's (the Wthby inventor) favorite cartridge. It's a blast shooting that caliber. (pun intended) But all preferences aside, for a guy shooting factory ammo, I still recommend a guy to buy the 7mm Rem or 300 WM so you can get cheaper ammo and shoot it often. Either of those guns will kill anything you need to kill in North America and will kill most of them at 500 yds or beyond.
It's not labled as a magnum but I'd say 26 Nosler would be worth a try.
I haven't played with the 26 Nosler, but the 6.5 Badger that I've been playing with is a ton of fun. The Badger is like a 26 Nosler +P. :tup:
For all of you guys offering "reasonable" advice, you're ruining this game for all of us! The goal here is to help boost the economy by convincing him to buy something new. :chuckle:
Andrew
:chuckle: Extreme calibers are like a bad gambling addiction.
I thought strongly about getting a 26 Nosler but I reviewed the ballistics and cost then compared them to the 257 and to the 340 Wtby with a 160 gr TTSX at 3400-3500 fps and just could not justify spending what the 26 would cost. It's still tempting whenever I read about the 26 but I am trying to control my addiction. A 264 Win Mag is another excellent and much cheaper option than the 26 Nosler. But I have to admit, the 26 still has that fatal attraction! :chuckle:
I should add something about cheap all around bullets:
I know they are not perfect but I have seen literally tons of game killed with Remington Coreloks at all types of ranges including a 30/06 on elk at 750ish yards.
Post by: bearpaw on July 24, 2014, 11:43:32 AM
It's been shot a lot as I loan it more often than any other gun I've owned. One of these days I think I will put a new barrel on it! :dunno:
Post by: Shane54 on July 24, 2014, 11:48:59 AM
Post by: Curly on July 24, 2014, 12:03:52 PM
Post by: bearpaw on July 24, 2014, 12:12:38 PM
I have never been a 270 fan but in recent years I have ended up with a 270. I was recently reviewing ballistics and loading data and decided to buy some 95 gr TTSX. I think they will perform like an extreme magnum rifle out of the 270, I'm going to find out! :dunno:
Charge Velocity Charge Velocity Load
RL 17 Powder (minimum 56.0grains, 3402 fps) (maximum 61.0 grains, 3709 fps)
Here's the philosophy I have been pursueing, due to the fact that the Barnes bullets do not lose weight on impact, you can shoot a much lighter bullet at much higher speeds which delivers an extreme shock to the target animal and gets more penetration than heavier bullets. So far this idea has been playing out as expected in various calibers. I'm really curious to see what the 95 TTSX does to an animal out of the 270.
There is a guy offering up a 300wby what do you think about that?
It's an excellent caliber, if the particular gun will shoot the 180 gr Remingtons from WalMart, you can buy then for about $40-$50ish. My gun has killed dozens of elk with those bullets from less than 100 yards to 700 yards. Guys from all over the world have killed all kinds of game with that gun and bullet combo, I loan it more than any other gun I own. But as mentioned, you need to make sure that gun will shoot that Remington cartridge well, otherwise if you don't handload you are stuck buying Wthby ammo for 100ish a box! :yike:
Post by: bearpaw on July 24, 2014, 12:19:13 PM
There is a guy offering up a 300wby what do you think about that?
One more thing: You need to shoulder the gun and see how it feels. I love the fit of the wtby rifles, but some people don't like them, you need to see how you like them!
Post by: h20hunter on July 24, 2014, 12:21:32 PM
Post by: bearpaw on July 24, 2014, 12:27:27 PM
Dale...as a .270 shooter and handloader I'd love to hear some more at the end of the season(s) about any ongame performace with those little pills.
You bet, I am anxious to see the results myself. That bullet at that speed is going to flat smack an animal, open up fully, and go all the way through while retaining all it's weight. Best of all, recoil should be minimal so that any size child or little lady would be comfortable shooting it. :twocents:
Post by: RadSav on July 24, 2014, 12:43:30 PM
Sorry I have not written my view of energy that was expected last night. Completed the write up last night and when I hit the "Post" option I lost it in an error message. Was too tired to write it again. Will try again this evening.
Site seems to be working much better today :tup:
Post by: bearpaw on July 24, 2014, 12:56:23 PM
I expect to test in a similar way but with the 325WSM. More as a result of Nosler's decision that seasonal runs for the 8mm Accubonds doesn't actually need to be available anywhere near or before hunting season :bash: So I will be loading the .325 with the 160 grain TTSX at what I expect is near 3,300fps. I do not expect to still have an elk tag after the early archery season, but if I do I feel confident in testing the light for caliber Barnes on a bull. Most bear encounters are at 200 yards or less, however, at least one should fall from this combination this year. If I get the load where I want it in the next week...perhaps two bear for a better view of what the combination can expect.
Sorry I have not written my view of energy that was expected last night. Completed the write up last night and when I hit the "Post" option I lost it in an error message. Was too tired to write it again. Will try again this evening.
Site seems to be working much better today :tup:
I think you'll like it. I probably told you about this bear, not a big bear but 340 Weatherby, 160 TTSX, 3400ish fps, dead in tracks. Less recoil than my 300 wtby with a 180 gr bullet.
Post by: superdown on July 24, 2014, 01:15:53 PM
Post by: RadSav on July 24, 2014, 02:02:48 PM
The last deer i shot with my 325wsm was at 309 yds with winchester 220grn power points and it dropped in it tracks.
I need to modify my magazine before I can shoot the PowerPoints. Recoil on the light rifle breaks the lead point right off of those. I was surprised that they do shoot exceptionally well when I load them one at a time! About 1.25" for cheap ammo is pretty good!
Post by: superdown on July 24, 2014, 03:13:39 PM
With archery as my primary hunting weapon I have not racked up too many animals with the 325 over the past few years. However, of the animals I have taken with the 325 I have yet see a single step taken after impact. In a 6# rifle it is a bit punishing at the range. Though it appears to have zero recoil when shooting at game :chuckle:What rifle are you shooting? My A-bolt II weighs about 7.6lbs with scope,rings,bases and safari sling. the scope is VXIII 2.5-8x36.The last deer i shot with my 325wsm was at 309 yds with winchester 220grn power points and it dropped in it tracks.
I need to modify my magazine before I can shoot the PowerPoints. Recoil on the light rifle breaks the lead point right off of those. I was surprised that they do shoot exceptionally well when I load them one at a time! About 1.25" for cheap ammo is pretty good!
Post by: RadSav on July 24, 2014, 04:45:55 PM
What rifle are you shooting? My A-bolt II weighs about 7.6lbs with scope,rings,bases and safari sling. the scope is VXIII 2.5-8x36.
I'm shooting a Kimber Montana I bought second hand from a member of H-W.
While I absolutely love the Montana I have thought about switching to the Browning for one reason only. The X-Bolt clip has an internal shoulder that stops the forward movement of all cartridges in the magazine during recoil. That, in my opinion, is a huge advantage when shooting these light WSM's! Recoil in the Montana box magazine was so bad I was getting the tips of the Accubonds splitting in half on the #2 round. After polishing the box to action fit that was eliminated, but it remains a problem with lead tipped bullets.
Post by: Jamieb on July 24, 2014, 06:07:01 PM
I'm really thinning the herd and the only Deer/elk rifle I have that's not going to be on the table is my 7 rem mag.
Post by: RadSav on July 24, 2014, 06:31:39 PM
Hey rad.....whats your opinion on foot pounds of energy and how much that relates to an efficient kill on an animal ??
Maybe bearpaw could give his insite too
You guys have alot of experience using lighter than standerd bullets, prolly some longer shot stories?????
Could help the op out
"I fear that between the scab and the growing popularity of accurate and long range cartridges such as the .25-35WCF, .30WCF the population of western game is in jeopardy."
"After review of my field notes I can unequivocally state that the 25-35 WCF is a high powered cartridge with no equal. The speed and range to which it dispatched elk, sheep, bear and deer is beyond what this writer imagined possible."
"The .32 Winchester Special is undeniable as the best elk cartridge ever produced. It's high power and extended range ability simply unmatched by comparable cartridges."
These are quotes from outdoor writers in the late 1800's and early 1900's. While long range back then was considered 250 yards and bullet choices were limited the game they chased was and is the same today. Yet, with improvements to gun powders and bullet designs ultimately improving these cartridges all are considered "inadequate" as big game cartridges today. Has the efficiency of modern hunters degraded to a point we can no longer be trusted with such modest levels of performance? Has knowledge and science proven those old writers as greatly misinformed and/or unethical in behavior? Is it simply human nature to disregard the historical teaching of one generation in favor of our own version of superiority? Did history and experience change immediately after Edward A. Matunas published his Optimal Game Weight Formula ? Few ask the questions instead voicing opinion based often on the written views of journalist majors with little real world experience and self proclaimed internet experts.
"It has been going on since the origin of hunting: the clumsy co-mingling of scientific terms and baseless speculation. We know that a bullet cannot knock an animal down, it would take a new branch of physics for that to be possible. Yet, the odd notion of 'knock-down' persists." - Randy Wakeman
I agree with Bearpaw that the Manunas foot lb minimums are probably close as a good general rule of thumb. And while I applaud Mr. Manunas for attempting to formulate a printable standard I can't help but think he would have thrown his hands up in frustration with all of todays variations in bullet weight and construction. It would almost be required that a new formula be created for every single design, method of construction, caliber and material composition for any resemblance of consistency to ring true as a foundation of scientific certainty.
I am not real keen on long range shooting of big game animals. My experience leads me to believe that the volume of hunters that can routinely mortally wound animals at distances beyond 300 yards is very small. Vastly smaller than one might think by reading forums on the internet. Besides that fact I find very few bullets that kill quickly enough for my tastes at ranges beyond 400 yards. I personally would rather see a young man shoot the 30-30 well at 200 yards than to see the same young man shoot an animal poorly at 500 yards with a magnum weiner measuring devise.
I like Nathan Foster's use of the term "Emphatic Killing". I would say that is the way I like to see animals taken. And while I like high BC bullets and have become quite the fan of Nosler's Accubond it is not much of an emphatic killer from most weapons beyond 300 yards. As is the case of nearly all bonded core bullets at extended ranges. Of course on heavily built animals like elk and large bear performance does extend the range at which these bonded core bullets and the Barnes bullets will perform. However, they really can not be thought of as fast killers or emphatic killers at long range.
In my opinion way too many hunters place too high a value on penetration and not nearly enough on quick killing. A growing concern is the use of long range performing bullets on animals at typical ranges of under 200 yards. Each equally poor at kill and recovery of the intended quarry. It has been my experience that while you may have a string of great successes using both methods there usually comes a major fail. One that could be avoided by simply concentrating on a common bullet performance at common hunting ranges.
With the right bullets I think even low velocity low energy cartridges can be considered emphatic killers. The big plus to these low energy rounds is that nearly everyone shoots them well. I have a number of large magnums and all are housed in extremely accurate guns. However, when opening day arrives more often than not I am found in the woods with a 308Win. Simply put I shoot it better day in and day out even if it is not housed in as accurate a gun as many of my Magnums. While not emphatically I have personally killed bear and elk with the .308 at distances of 500 yards when I needed to. In each of those cases I would have preferred to have my 7mm Rem or 300 with me in case I hit major bone. Though neither of those magnums would have been any more emphatic a killer than the .308 at that distance since the .308 accuracy allowed proper bullet placement and avoidance of the major bones. Due to the bullet selections I have made in my magnum rifles that same "Behind the Shoulder" placement would have likely produced less internal tissue damage than did the more appropriate for velocity construction of the .308 round.
"Realistic expectations are more valuable then most other things in life." – Kirby Allen
Duke Savora and I had a saying when the discussion of bow speed would arise. It went something like "I'd rather kill them at 195fps than miss them at 400fps". That same philosophy holds true with rifles as well. Many of us like to believe we are just as good with a magnum rifle as we are with a standard rifle. And for many experienced shooters that may very well be true. However, when guiding I spent one heck of a lot of time blood trailing game shot with magnum rifles and very little trailing of animals shot with the 30-30, 243, 250 Savage, 257 Roberts, 308, 25-06 and 30-06. And the longest successful shot I have ever personally witnessed on a bear was made using the .243. So if history holds any amount of truth perhaps those turn of the century writers weren't completely wrong after all.
I apologies for this not being written at a usual level of style. My first draft was much better but I seem to be fading too fast this evening to remember exactly how I wrote that lost first draft >:(
Post by: KFhunter on July 24, 2014, 06:43:36 PM
I can't find any fault in it, obviously I must feel this way as I'm about the only one to tell the OP in this thread to go smaller rather than larger :chuckle:
Post by: Bofire on July 24, 2014, 06:44:13 PM
Roy Weatherby bought the radius shoulder design from the "Powell / Milton freebore" system designer. he was a great marketer but invented nothing but fancy stocks rich folks bought.
Much like Glenn Browning, Johns nephew, invented nothing, but helped sell the designs.
John M Browning mostly worked for Winchester. Browning Firearms Company was not in existance until 3 years after JM Browning died.
Both, Glenn and Sam, remind me of the Sam Colt lore, he invented nothing also. JM Browning was a genius of design. For Sam Colt, look up Smith & Wesson, and the development of the lever action, and winchester/Henry. Sam was a genius of marketing.
I Tried to put years of reading into a few senctences, can't be done, but shows there is a ton of reading and research to do! :bash: and lots of fun
Carl
Post by: Fl0und3rz on July 24, 2014, 09:02:37 PM
It's still a very good write up Rad.:yeah:
I can't find any fault in it, obviously I must feel this way as I'm about the only one to tell the OP in this thread to go smaller rather than larger :chuckle:
If it is mostly original, and it appears to be, I'd say post it in its own thread and sticky it.
Post by: RadSav on July 24, 2014, 11:03:02 PM
I can't find any fault in it, obviously I must feel this way as I'm about the only one to tell the OP in this thread to go smaller rather than larger :chuckle:
Just for clarity's sake I was not trying to advise the OP one way or another in regard to going small or large. Sounds like he wants a barrel burner and I am in full support of him getting what he wants even if it ends up being more of a learning experience than the answer he is looking for. My belief has always been that with proper bullet selection for each job at hand more energy isn't always the answer. But, if you can hit what you are aiming at with great consistency and using the correct bullet for that energy and distance...Go for it!
Monogamy when it comes to the relationship between a man and a gun? Just seems senseless and boring to me :chuckle:
Post by: kentrek on July 24, 2014, 11:51:38 PM
Some of what you said could very well be the best info ive seen on the site regarding cartridge selection.....hopefully the op makes good use of it
I appreciate the thoughts
:tup:
Post by: Dutchie on July 25, 2014, 03:21:01 AM
Post by: bullcanyon on July 25, 2014, 05:06:33 AM
Post by: grundy53 on July 25, 2014, 06:00:37 AM
My wtb:300 rum topic seemed to spark a lot of conversations and opinions. So let's continue it here boys! To answer questions I am:6'1 195 lbs , almost 18, varsity football player. Proficient marksmen. I already have 3 270's and am looking for more power & powder :tup:. Tell me what you think about me getting a magnum rifle, and what it should be :tup:.
Since you've got three 270's and no magnum sell a 270 and buy your magnum rifle. If you get the right make it will be guaranteed 1moa or less accuracy out of the box. If you get a Wthby Vanguard II then it will only cost you a few more dollars than you will get for the 270. :tup:
The actual differences between most magnums is pretty minimal, if you are buying loaded ammunition then stick to what's the most affordable to shoot. The more you shoot that gun the better you will shoot it. As I mentioned before, if you buy loaded ammunition I'd get a 7mm Rem or 300 Win Mag since ammo is very affordable for either. I would get that caliber in the Vanguard II for an excellent affordable choice with guaranteed .99 or better moa accuracy. You might want to learn to reload then you can afford to shoot any of the new exotic magnums because cartridge cost will then be a minimal factor. :twocents:
FYI: http://www.weatherby.com/vanguardseries2/ (http://www.weatherby.com/vanguardseries2/)
7mm Rem. Mag. $489...24"...7 1/4 lbs...blued
.300 Win. Mag. $489...24"...7 1/4 lbs...blued
7mm Rem. Mag...$689...24"...7 1/4 lbs...stainless
.300 Win. Mag...$689...24"...7 1/4 lbs...stainlessI've always been told that 1000 ft/lbs is preferable for clean kills on elk/ bear size game, 700 for deer and 250 for coyote. I've always used that as a guide for range limits,also my ability to keep it under moa.
Im sure rad will have a much better answer. But this is what I've used as guide lines for me :tup:
You also want the velocity to open the bullet. I shoot TSX and they need 1,800 fps.
I think you need at least that much speed for the Barnes, for the larger calibers (338ish as an example) I think you need more speed to open a Barnes. As much as I like the TTSX for an all around hunting bullet I believe there are better bullets for extreme long range hunting. For long range a lot of guys seem to like the bergers. Honestly, there doesn't seem to be a perfect bullet for all ranges, I think a guy is best to have at least two types of bullets that shoot well in your gun.
The foot lb minimums mentioned are probably close as a good general rule of thumb. However, a gut shot bear/elk/moose with 1500+ lb energy may never be found whereas a spinal shot with half that energy will take down the same animal immediately which illustrates the importance of shot placement.Manufacturer is a bit optimistic with their numbers. While the tip may split at 1,800 it doesn't often exceed bore diameter at such speeds. Bigger diameter bullets like those of the 338 and 375 seem to be better at low velocities. But none should be considered highly effective at velocities less than 2,200.
My Dall sheep I killed with my bow was shot earlier that day with a Barnes TTSX at 425 yards from a 7 RemMag. diaphram, lungs and bullet was just under the hide behind the far shoulder. Didn't seem all that much worse for wear. Though I rushed the stalk, got busted and would have never gotten him had he not been hurting.
I've seen similar issues in California when guys have used .270 cal Barnes for exotic goat and sheep. Those certainly aren't the solid beef sticks a large muledeer or elk is, but it does challenge the manufacturers claim of minimum useful velocity. The more solidly built hogs I've seen taken at closer ranges where velocities have been (I'm guessing) around 2,600 to 2,400 fps were a different story. The Barnes simply hammered the bageeses out of them!
Bearpaw Jr. has a video on the Bearpaw Outfitters website where she shoots a moose with the 257 Wby and Barnes bullets at reasonably long range. He pounds him with a few shots, but you can tell he is pretty much toast after the first shot! I'd guess impact velocity was near 2,400 :dunno: Cool video. If you haven't seen it yet it's worth checking out.
We've killed at least three moose with the 257 wtby, I've seen probably 10 bear killed all with one shot, and I killed my cow elk last winter one shot at over 500 yds with my 257. There is a reason it was Roy Weatherby's (the Wthby inventor) favorite cartridge. It's a blast shooting that caliber. (pun intended) But all preferences aside, for a guy shooting factory ammo, I still recommend a guy to buy the 7mm Rem or 300 WM so you can get cheaper ammo and shoot it often. Either of those guns will kill anything you need to kill in North America and will kill most of them at 500 yds or beyond.It's not labled as a magnum but I'd say 26 Nosler would be worth a try.
I haven't played with the 26 Nosler, but the 6.5 Badger that I've been playing with is a ton of fun. The Badger is like a 26 Nosler +P. :tup:
For all of you guys offering "reasonable" advice, you're ruining this game for all of us! The goal here is to help boost the economy by convincing him to buy something new. :chuckle:
Andrew
:chuckle: Extreme calibers are like a bad gambling addiction.
I thought strongly about getting a 26 Nosler but I reviewed the ballistics and cost then compared them to the 257 and to the 340 Wtby with a 160 gr TTSX at 3400-3500 fps and just could not justify spending what the 26 would cost. It's still tempting whenever I read about the 26 but I am trying to control my addiction. A 264 Win Mag is another excellent and much cheaper option than the 26 Nosler. But I have to admit, the 26 still has that fatal attraction! :chuckle:
I should add something about cheap all around bullets:
I know they are not perfect but I have seen literally tons of game killed with Remington Coreloks at all types of ranges including a 30/06 on elk at 750ish yards.
I can safely say I've killed more animals with a .300 win mag then any other cartridge I own. It is a very versatile round. I also own a .257 weatherby magnum and love it. Also if I have my way my next rifle will be a .264 win mag.
sent from my typewriter
Post by: Curly on July 25, 2014, 09:25:55 AM
If your buddy is only loading those 168g bergers to 2950 he isn't loading that up to it's potential. He could get more than that out of a 210g berger.:yeah:
Heck, some 30-06 rifles might be able to almost reach 2950 with a 168 gr.
Post by: WoodlandShooter on July 25, 2014, 09:46:53 AM
If your buddy is only loading those 168g bergers to 2950 he isn't loading that up to it's potential. He could get more than that out of a 210g berger.:yeah:
Heck, some 30-06 rifles might be able to almost reach 2950 with a 168 gr.
One of my shooting buddies is using a similar performing load in his 30-06 for competition use.
Post by: Dutchie on July 25, 2014, 11:53:51 AM
Get a 338 rum use that extra powder potential
Post by: bearpaw on July 25, 2014, 01:03:24 PM
Back to the original post. The OP has three 270's, I can certainly understand why he would like to replace a 270 with a magnum rifle and try to expand his realm of hunting flexibility. I can hold dead on out to 300 yards with my 257 or 300's and if I hold steady the animal is going down. As an extreme example I can't do that with a 30/30. However, he could take one of those 270's and with the right loads hold dead on at 300 yards and be effective. However, the 300 magnum will deliver more energy at longer yardages than the 257 or the 270 so why not get a bigger magnum of one flavor or the other to replace one of the 270's?
Good luck to him however he decides to proceed! :tup:
Post by: Shane54 on July 25, 2014, 01:10:45 PM
Post by: h20hunter on July 25, 2014, 01:12:33 PM
Post by: Shane54 on July 25, 2014, 01:32:43 PM
Post by: jay.sharkbait on July 25, 2014, 03:37:58 PM
Great comments Rad, I would add that in my opinion some of the biggest mistakes in long range hunting is most hunters do not have the experience or training to qualify them as legitimate long range shooters, also there is often a failure to be set up properly for making long range shots and it's hard to accomplish proper long range setup in many hunting situations. I try to keep most shots on deer and bear at 250 yards or less and prefer 100 yard shots or less if possible. Elk are twice the size so you can almost double those yardages for elk and most hunters are proficient. Antelope and coyotes offer a bigger challenge due to their size and shooting distances involved, I've definitely seen a higher percentage of misses on those animals.
6k rifle- check
Multicam or Kryptek camo -check
Horus Kestrel- check
Uber cool rangefinder- check
UNS mount but no night vision gear- check
Super high post count on Snipers Hide- check
The ability to actually hit anything........... :o
Post by: RadSav on July 25, 2014, 05:39:19 PM
also there is often a failure to be set up properly for making long range shots and it's hard to accomplish proper long range setup in many hunting situations.
I find the older, the stiffer and the fatter I get the harder this becomes :chuckle:
Post by: nocken n notchen on July 27, 2014, 08:43:47 PM
Post by: yorketransport on July 27, 2014, 09:52:13 PM
Great comments Rad, I would add that in my opinion some of the biggest mistakes in long range hunting is most hunters do not have the experience or training to qualify them as legitimate long range shooters, also there is often a failure to be set up properly for making long range shots and it's hard to accomplish proper long range setup in many hunting situations. I try to keep most shots on deer and bear at 250 yards or less and prefer 100 yard shots or less if possible. Elk are twice the size so you can almost double those yardages for elk and most hunters are proficient. Antelope and coyotes offer a bigger challenge due to their size and shooting distances involved, I've definitely seen a higher percentage of misses on those animals.
6k rifle- check
Multicam or Kryptek camo -check
Horus Kestrel- check
Uber cool rangefinder- check
UNS mount but no night vision gear- check
Super high post count on Snipers Hide- check
The ability to actually hit anything........... :o
:chuckle:
Do I still qualify if I only hang out on Long Range Hunting and not Snipers Hide? :dunno: :chuckle:
Post by: WoodlandShooter on July 28, 2014, 08:30:22 AM
Great comments Rad, I would add that in my opinion some of the biggest mistakes in long range hunting is most hunters do not have the experience or training to qualify them as legitimate long range shooters, also there is often a failure to be set up properly for making long range shots and it's hard to accomplish proper long range setup in many hunting situations. I try to keep most shots on deer and bear at 250 yards or less and prefer 100 yard shots or less if possible. Elk are twice the size so you can almost double those yardages for elk and most hunters are proficient. Antelope and coyotes offer a bigger challenge due to their size and shooting distances involved, I've definitely seen a higher percentage of misses on those animals.
6k rifle- check
Multicam or Kryptek camo -check
Horus Kestrel- check
Uber cool rangefinder- check
UNS mount but no night vision gear- check
Super high post count on Snipers Hide- check
The ability to actually hit anything........... :o
:chuckle:
Do I still qualify if I only hang out on Long Range Hunting and not Snipers Hide? :dunno: :chuckle:
LMAO!!!
If it was not for LRH, I would still have the OEM sporter barrel and the old Redfield scope on my 270. That place is hard on the wallet.
(also a closet "Hide" poster as well)
Post by: hooker on July 29, 2014, 09:34:19 PM
300 wsm in a Sako A7
Post by: Damnimissed on July 29, 2014, 09:57:09 PM
To the OP.
300 wsm in a Sako A7
Sako A7 Roughtech in 300 WM
I have a Sako A7 Big Game (cabelas exclusive) in .270 win, and I shot 5 in a .75 group with 150 gr Fed Fusions lol I was just trying to fire form some brass and get a feel for the rifle!
Post by: hooker on July 31, 2014, 08:23:54 PM
Also very typical of my 30-06 Sako A7. The gun that got me hooked on the A7's both him and his son own a 300wsm and they shoot every weight bullet every brand they buy MOA.
I owned a Kimber Montana in 300wsm and it was a shooter two. But I'm sold on the A7...
Post by: RadSav on August 01, 2014, 01:24:40 AM
I put 9 into .720 two nights ago! And that was same powder/bullet/case/primer but 3 different charges. One 3 shot group went .289(two in same hole) the next 3 shot group went .367(all 3 shots touching) The third group with the highest charge went .720. That was with a 270win and 130 Horns..
Also very typical of my 30-06 Sako A7. The gun that got me hooked on the A7's both him and his son own a 300wsm and they shoot every weight bullet every brand they buy MOA.
I owned a Kimber Montana in 300wsm and it was a shooter two. But I'm sold on the A7...
I've had the exact opposite experience. I really have to work to get 1" or better with my A7's (.270 & 7mm). But my Kimbers' seem to shoot 1" or better with my eyes closed. Now if only Kimber would make a 7Rem!! >:( Must be different results from different body types :dunno: I've been thinking about buying a McMillian stock for the A7 270WSM to see if that makes a difference for me.
Post by: hooker on August 03, 2014, 01:36:31 PM
Post by: RadSav on August 03, 2014, 02:08:56 PM
I put mine in a Sako Classic with edge fill. But that's not why mine shoots so good. It just came out of the box that way. Sorry to hear about your A7's.
I'm definitely not saying my A7's are bad in any way. Just finicky with loads and shooting form whereas the other just seems to run on auto pilot. I did not know I could get it to fit a Sako Classic stock! Do you know if it will fit the 85 Laminated? I'd assume so if the classic worked :dunno:
I also talked with a friend about the 7REM since that post . He has been a long time fan of the round and really the one that turned me on to it as well. I was shocked when he said the 7mm is temperamental to variations in throat lead angles. He claims both the 270 and 30 calibers of the same speed are accepting of nearly any lead angle, but for some reason the 7mm is not. Not even at 7-08 velocities! Perhaps that is why both my Browning and A7 7Rem like one bullet and one bullet only. I can get away with multiple powder charges, but both guns only shoot the Accubond well. And I've tried a crud load of bullets in both rifles! Food for thought anyway.
Post by: RadSav on August 03, 2014, 04:11:05 PM
I have never been a 270 fan but in recent years I have ended up with a 270. I was recently reviewing ballistics and loading data and decided to buy some 95 gr TTSX. I think they will perform like an extreme magnum rifle out of the 270, I'm going to find out! :dunno:
Charge Velocity Charge Velocity Load
RL 17 Powder (minimum 56.0grains, 3402 fps) (maximum 61.0 grains, 3709 fps)
Bearpaw, I just finished trying to work up a load for the WSM using this 95 grain TTSX. Hopefully you have more luck than I did. My best load was 65 grains of RL17, bullet seated .045" off the lands producing 1.2" groups from a Sako that usually shoots around .875" with 140 grain Accubonds when I do my job correctly. It sure made the gun a complete pleasure to shoot, but I think I am going to pick up some 110 grain TTSX and see if that doesn't show some improvement in accuracy over the 95. I think I'll slow down the powder burn a little bit with the 110 and try IMR4350 at around 3,500.
On a similar note: I also worked up a load for the .325 WSM and 160 grain TTSX using 68.5 grains of Norma URP (seems similar to RL17). At .625" it is proving to be the most accurate load I've ever tested at 100 yards in my Montana. At what I am guessing/calculating is between 3280 and 3300 it still kicks like an angry mule out of the light gun. But dang does the gun stay on target well. I'd say better than a 50% improvement on barrel jump over the 200 grain Accubond load. I'm looking forward to whacking a bear with it in the next few days! Wed' and Thurs' is suppose to drop below 80 degrees up on the hill. Perfect bear weather!!!
Post by: hooker on August 03, 2014, 05:51:11 PM
Post by: RadSav on August 03, 2014, 06:17:46 PM
Wish I could help with info on the Classic and 85 Laminated but I can't. I don't know. I do know that the folks at McMillan were very professional and very helpful every time I called them. Even though it took almost 8 months to get the stock it was a very good experience with McMillan and I was fully aware of timeline before I called them to order.
OK well that makes more sense. I was thinking you were using the Sako made Classic stock and did modifications. Knowing it is a McMillian in the Classic style :DOH: I should have put that together...My mistake!
Post by: bearpaw on August 04, 2014, 01:59:58 AM
I have never been a 270 fan but in recent years I have ended up with a 270. I was recently reviewing ballistics and loading data and decided to buy some 95 gr TTSX. I think they will perform like an extreme magnum rifle out of the 270, I'm going to find out! :dunno:
Charge Velocity Charge Velocity Load
RL 17 Powder (minimum 56.0grains, 3402 fps) (maximum 61.0 grains, 3709 fps)
Bearpaw, I just finished trying to work up a load for the WSM using this 95 grain TTSX. Hopefully you have more luck than I did. My best load was 65 grains of RL17, bullet seated .045" off the lands producing 1.2" groups from a Sako that usually shoots around .875" with 140 grain Accubonds when I do my job correctly. It sure made the gun a complete pleasure to shoot, but I think I am going to pick up some 110 grain TTSX and see if that doesn't show some improvement in accuracy over the 95. I think I'll slow down the powder burn a little bit with the 110 and try IMR4350 at around 3,500.
On a similar note: I also worked up a load for the .325 WSM and 160 grain TTSX using 68.5 grains of Norma URP (seems similar to RL17). At .625" it is proving to be the most accurate load I've ever tested at 100 yards in my Montana. At what I am guessing/calculating is between 3280 and 3300 it still kicks like an angry mule out of the light gun. But dang does the gun stay on target well. I'd say better than a 50% improvement on barrel jump over the 200 grain Accubond load. I'm looking forward to whacking a bear with it in the next few days! Wed' and Thurs' is suppose to drop below 80 degrees up on the hill. Perfect bear weather!!!
Rad, I was in Wisconsin for nearly 6 weeks remodeling my sister-in-laws house, just got back a couple days ago and still working on backed up work so haven't played with any guns in a while.
That sure sounds good with your 325 WSM! In my 340 Wtby the 160 TTSX seemed to shoot as well at about 3400 fps as anything else I've tried so far in that gun, that's pretty fast for a 160 bullet and it's a pleasure to shoot with excellent results on that one bear so far.
Doesn't sound so good for the 95 TTSX in your 270 WSM, maybe a different powder would help? When I get a chance I plan to load some 95 and 110 TTSX in a 270 Win, if they both shoot well I may even try some 85 TSX Flat base just to see what happens, LOL, the following is the Min/Max loads for those bullets, pretty incredible velocities for a 270 Win. I'll let you know how they work out.
270 Win Barnes Data
85 TSX-FB...RL-17....3609-3912 fps
95 TTSX......RL-17....3402-3709 fps
110 TTSX....Hunter...3321-3524 fps
Hopefully what we find out can help the OP as well, there must be some factory ammo with the 110 TTSX! :tup:
Post by: RadSav on August 04, 2014, 03:09:07 AM
Doesn't sound so good for the 95 TTSX in your 270 WSM, maybe a different powder would help?
...
Hopefully what we find out can help the OP as well, there must be some factory ammo with the 110 TTSX! :tup:
Nosler shows four loads for the 270 WSM with a 100 grain bullet and all four show best accuracy with minimum load weights. Powders for Nosler are all over the place with fastest powder burn being RL-15, slowest burn being H4831SC and most accurate in the middle with IMR4350 at 3537fps. Speer doesn't show a single load for the 100 grain with a powder slower than RL-15. Barnes is showing best powder for accuracy with the 95 grain TTSX is Ramshot Hunter which is odd being how it is closer to RL-19 and slower than all the 4350 powders. Hornady, like Nosler, is all over the board with RL-15 as the fastest burn, two 4350 powders and then the N-160 which should be almost the equivalent to the Ramshot Hunter. I'm so confused!!! :yike:
Noslers test barrel is 26" while all the others are 24". All have 1:10 twist rates. The 95 grain is seated right at bore diameter depth in the WSM with one ring exposing the case mouth. It wouldn't be completely out of the realm of possibility that I'm not getting sufficient alignment for the long Barnes bullet jump and powder isn't meaning anything at all :dunno:
I figured RL-17 would be a good compromise between the RL-15 and Ramshot Hunter while giving a bump in speed. Looks like I was wrong! Guess maybe I should try some Norma 203B (RL-15) and see if going faster burn would help. Then again... :bash:...I do have some RL-19 :chuckle:
Maybe I'll just see what the 110 TTSX has to offer before going crazy trying to figure out that 95 grain demon :devil:
Post by: RadSav on August 05, 2014, 02:12:18 AM
I set up the Swaro Ballistic program and was shocked how well that works out. 2" high at 100 yards (scope on this rifle does not have a ballistic turret) equates to a 250 yard zero and a dead hold out to 325 yards. Holding on spine good to 375 yards! One foot hold over back line good to over 450 yards. Deer or bear figures...have a bit more to work with on each of those when dealing with elk size targets.
I was a little concerned about the low BC and what the wind was going to do with it. At least on paper it doesn't seem to fall apart too bad until cross wind breaks 15 mph or distance reaches 425. That's 100 yards further than I like to shoot at big game anyway and pushes the limits of the TTSX to perform with terminal certainty.
On paper it looks to be just about perfect to my style of hunting :tup: If I can put off the IRS auditor I will test in on a bear come Wednesday or Thursday!
Post by: Shane54 on August 05, 2014, 10:13:24 AM
Post by: C-Money on August 05, 2014, 11:17:15 AM
Post by: kentrek on August 05, 2014, 11:23:42 AM
Shooting 150 bergers @ 3150 with great accuracy
Post by: Shane54 on August 05, 2014, 12:26:16 PM
Post by: Smossy on August 05, 2014, 12:32:51 PM
Post by: bobcat on August 05, 2014, 12:33:39 PM
Post by: RadSav on August 05, 2014, 05:21:05 PM
Is this a good deal http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=432388108#PIC (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=432388108#PIC) :dunno:
Well, I think that depends on what the final price is! Make sure you have enough money left over for some dang good ear protection. And not only for yourself, but for anyone within 20 yards of you ;)
Should definitely do what you said you wanted one for. Plus some!! And you will definitely know it's not a 270 when you send the first pill target bound :chuckle:
Post by: yorketransport on August 05, 2014, 08:51:18 PM
Is this a good deal http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=432388108#PIC (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=432388108#PIC) :dunno:
It's not bad, but you could do better if you wait it out. 300 RUMs pop up pretty often, usually with half of the original box of shells included. :chuckle:
Post by: WoodlandShooter on August 06, 2014, 02:19:38 PM
Post by: WoodlandShooter on August 06, 2014, 02:29:27 PM
http://www.elr-resources.com/ELR%20Cartridges%20Matrix%2012252013.xls (http://www.elr-resources.com/ELR%20Cartridges%20Matrix%2012252013.xls)
Post by: dscubame on August 06, 2014, 02:41:10 PM
Post by: yorketransport on August 06, 2014, 08:07:24 PM
this thread has really got me thinking about a 300 RUM shooting some 230 Grain Berger Hybrids at ~2900 FPS...should be supersonic to 1650 yards at standard conditions!!!
If you really want to have fun, both the 6.5 Badger with a 160 Matrix and the 375 BME with a 350gr MK will stay supersonic to 2000+ yards. :tup:
Post by: Biggerhammer on August 06, 2014, 08:48:44 PM
this thread has really got me thinking about a 300 RUM shooting some 230 Grain Berger Hybrids at ~2900 FPS...should be supersonic to 1650 yards at standard conditions!!!
If you really want to have fun, both the 6.5 Badger with a 160 Matrix and the 375 BME with a 350gr MK will stay supersonic to 2000+ yards. :tup:
Sssshhhhhhhhhhh! A 6.5 bullet couldn't possibly be capable of that. ;) Maybe in 6.5x47 La-What? fantasy land. :tup:
Post by: WoodlandShooter on August 07, 2014, 08:59:33 AM
this thread has really got me thinking about a 300 RUM shooting some 230 Grain Berger Hybrids at ~2900 FPS...should be supersonic to 1650 yards at standard conditions!!!
If you really want to have fun, both the 6.5 Badger with a 160 Matrix and the 375 BME with a 350gr MK will stay supersonic to 2000+ yards. :tup:
NICE!!!
been kicking around the idea of a 300 RUM with 230 grain Berger hybrids @ ~2900 FPS for a couple weeks now.
Found a stainless fluted Remmington Sendero...would be a decent starter platform. Would need a little work, Muzzle Brake, some action truing, and a decent scope...but it would be a hammer and would get me another 250 yards of range over my 270.
But the best part is the 230 grain Berger has 14" less wind drift at 1000 yards at 10 mph cross wind and at 1400 yards, it has almost 3 feet less wind drift when compared to my 270 using 165 Matrix.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on August 07, 2014, 09:26:26 AM
Post by: WoodlandShooter on August 11, 2014, 01:37:07 PM
Pick the magnum that has the ability to push a decent bullet hard enough to stay supersonic at a mile at standard atmospheric conditions....
That is indeed "enough gun"!!!
Post by: Shane54 on September 08, 2014, 06:53:06 PM
Post by: RadSav on September 08, 2014, 07:37:05 PM
It's almost that time
That time to go hunting. Or that time to put up the money on your new gun?
Post by: Shane54 on September 08, 2014, 09:19:23 PM
Post by: RadSav on September 08, 2014, 11:20:44 PM
Post by: Jolten on September 09, 2014, 06:41:52 PM
Post by: Shane54 on September 09, 2014, 06:49:16 PM
Post by: bobcat on September 09, 2014, 07:34:06 PM
Well my final decision is....... The 300rum! :tup:
He went with my recommendation! :IBCOOL:
Post by: RadSav on September 09, 2014, 08:56:06 PM
Well my final decision is....... The 300rum! :tup:
He went with my recommendation! :IBCOOL:
I was hoping to talk him out of it. But, I think we knew from the first post and the other thread that the
Shane54 - Hope it is everything you hoped it would be. Be sure to post pictures when you get it all set up. For us old broken married guys Gun porn is just about as good as the traditional kind ;) Good luck to you :tup:
Post by: birddogdad on September 09, 2014, 09:11:38 PM
Post by: Shane54 on September 14, 2014, 09:17:39 PM
Post by: sakoshooter on September 14, 2014, 09:38:31 PM
.270's a great caliber. If you're looking to spend some money for a noticeable gain, go with a 300 mag minimum. Super versatile caliber. If you're looking for an elk cartridge, buy a .338 Win Mag. You'll not regret it. Between the 270 and a 338 WM, you've got everything covered.
As for recoil, not much difference between the 7mg, 300 mag and the 338 mag. All are substantial so if you're going to tolerate it and practice with it enough to get used to it, might as well push a heavy bullet with authority - .338 Winchester Magnum. I hunt deer with my 270 and 3006 but elk with my 338 with confidence no matter the shot angle.
Also, no matter what you shoot, use super premium bullets.
Post by: Shane54 on October 26, 2014, 06:08:38 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 26, 2014, 06:24:12 PM
Post by: RadSav on October 26, 2014, 06:46:31 PM
Post by: ribka on October 26, 2014, 08:48:41 PM
Well I know I said I was certain to buy a rum, well I lied :sry: :chuckle:. So when it came time to pay up I decided to buy a tikka t3 lite 300 win mag paired with a Nikon monarch 3 4-16 with a mildot reticle.
have the same rifle
suggest replace the factory rings on tikka mag caliber rifles with talley deadnutz or warnes
Post by: Shane54 on October 26, 2014, 08:56:55 PM
Post by: KFhunter on October 26, 2014, 09:10:21 PM
Well I know I said I was certain to buy a rum, well I lied :sry: :chuckle:. So when it came time to pay up I decided to buy a tikka t3 lite 300 win mag paired with a Nikon monarch 3 4-16 with a mildot reticle.
have the same rifle
suggest replace the factory rings on tikka mag caliber rifles with talley deadnutz or warnes
or this,
http://www.egwguns.com/index.php?p=product&id=1336 (http://www.egwguns.com/index.php?p=product&id=1336)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.egwguns.com%2Fimages%2Fproducts%2Fpreview%2F44003.jpg&hash=49cb5804aa3813644ee99b0a5b90f26ea8c0f35d)
Then you can use whatever mounts you want that use picatinny mounts. You could go lightweight rings or tactical rings with picatinny tops to stick lights and stuff on or even quick release.
Post by: RadSav on October 27, 2014, 01:25:35 AM
Anyway, loaded ammo would eject just fine, but spent cases would hit the side turret and fall back onto the magazine. Darn shame as I love that scope on my Winchester 70. Only way it would work on the Tikka was rotating it so the U/D became the L/R. That hurt my brain so I finally replaced it with a Leupold. ;) I did try going to high mounts with no luck. L/R cap was just too tall/wide.
Hope it is not an issue for you and the 300, but don't spend two weeks trying to figure out what the heck is going on if it does. No sense in that as I have banged my head against the wall so you don't have to :chuckle: :chuckle:
I had the same issue trying to use that scope with the 270WSM in a Sako A7.
Post by: Jonathan_S on October 27, 2014, 04:18:33 AM
Buy a 300 win and be done with it. It's a very versatile caliber.
Haha, somebody with three .270s probably wouldn't be done with one .300 win mag. Although I would say that a .300 Win mag or short mag would be the best option.
Post by: coachcw on October 27, 2014, 06:30:37 AM
Post by: RadSav on October 27, 2014, 10:34:39 AM
the 300 is a fine choice . id put a muzzle break on it before scope mounts (or just do both :chuckle:)
#1 item for Tikka around here is a SVL pad. Won't even take a single practice shot before adding one now. That hard rubber thing that comes with them is worthless. Shouldn't need a break after that!
Post by: Shane54 on October 27, 2014, 08:03:07 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 27, 2014, 08:28:45 PM
Post by: RadSav on October 27, 2014, 09:29:41 PM
Didn't really phase me enough to get break or a new butt pad. And it doesn't have the ejection problem your talking about :dunno: must be a short mag problem.
Good news on the ejection problem. Must be a Short Mag thing! I like the Monarch scopes and the price makes them hard to beat.
I found the SVL pad helped balance POI when resting on different surfaces. Seems to delay recoil just enough to avoid those high fliers when shooting off a hard platform. All my new guns get them and even the old ones get them unless there is some nostalgic reason not to mess with it. Even put SVL on my 22WRM :chuckle:
Post by: Jonathan_S on October 28, 2014, 06:46:18 PM
Even put SVL on my 22WRM :chuckle:
:tup: that's the one gun that needs it :chuckle:
Post by: Biggerhammer on October 28, 2014, 07:06:26 PM
Post by: Shane54 on October 28, 2014, 07:56:03 PM
Well, the .300 Win Mag part is cool. 8)What?
Post by: KFhunter on October 28, 2014, 08:00:07 PM
Well, the .300 Win Mag part is cool. 8)What?
Don't mind him, he's a tikka hater. Don't ask him why either, cause he can't give you a good reason other than "just because" :chuckle:
He eats, bleeds and breeds Remington.
Post by: Biggerhammer on October 28, 2014, 08:06:50 PM
Well, the .300 Win Mag part is cool. 8)What?
Don't mind him, he's a tikka hater. Don't ask him why either, cause he can't give you a good reason other than "just because" :chuckle:
He eats, bleeds and breeds Remington.
WoW! You are on your "A" game today! That was eligant and well worded.
Post by: Shane54 on October 28, 2014, 08:47:18 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on October 28, 2014, 09:45:32 PM
Tragic :bdid: :dunno: must have never shot one :dunno: :chuckle: :bdid: :bfg: :lol4:
I've tried to even touch a Tikka, it was a "No go"!
Post by: Shane54 on January 10, 2015, 10:21:44 PM
Post by: mountainman on January 10, 2015, 11:16:17 PM
Post by: mountainman on January 10, 2015, 11:22:44 PM
Well I know I said I was certain to buy a rum, well I lied :sry: :chuckle:. So when it came time to pay up I decided to buy a tikka t3 lite 300 win mag paired with a Nikon monarch 3 4-16 with a mildot reticle.
Well I know I said I was certain to buy a rum, well I lied :sry: :chuckle:. So when it came time to pay up I decided to buy a tikka t3 lite 300 win mag paired with a Nikon monarch 3 4-16 with a mildot reticle.Nice gun! Only thing I would do different would have been a nice Vortex on top ;)
Post by: HUNTaHOLIC5 on January 10, 2015, 11:23:48 PM
Post by: Taco280AI on January 11, 2015, 12:01:32 AM
Sell the 270 and 300 and get a nice 223 and be set :chuckle:
Or sell the 270 and 7mm and get a 243
Post by: M_ray on January 11, 2015, 02:35:53 AM
Post by: elkaholic123 on January 11, 2015, 07:17:37 AM
I just bought a 7mm mag and I have been shooting a 300 win mag for about 15 years ... You are going to find better bullet coefficients, more bullet options, less recoil ( no muzzle break needed) similar muzzle volicities, same range with a flatter trajectory out of the 7mm than the 300 ... My guess is when you get them both set up you will reach for the 7mm each time out! ;)The 300 has way more bullet options, 30 caliber is the most versatile caliber for North American big game hunting, as far as recoil I would say they are close to the same when shooting same size bullets. :twocents:
Post by: jackelope on January 11, 2015, 07:32:27 AM
Post by: fastdam on January 11, 2015, 02:32:17 PM
Post by: M_ray on January 11, 2015, 04:23:46 PM
I just bought a 7mm mag and I have been shooting a 300 win mag for about 15 years ... You are going to find better bullet coefficients, more bullet options, less recoil ( no muzzle break needed) similar muzzle volicities, same range with a flatter trajectory out of the 7mm than the 300 ... My guess is when you get them both set up you will reach for the 7mm each time out! ;)The 300 has way more bullet options, 30 caliber is the most versatile caliber for North American big game hunting, as far as recoil I would say they are close to the same when shooting same size bullets. :twocents:
Sorry but I've been searching and the 7mm bullet has way better bullet coefficients which in turn gives you better options to achieve the desired energy at long range ... its not even close or I would just stay with my 300. I guess I should have said "usually" you'll find less recoil with a 7mm of coarse there is always going to be an exception to the rule. my main motivation is to try and get away from the muzzlebreak, have a flatter trajectory and more energy at range, not saying the same shot cant be made with a 300 but those are the reasons I am building a 7mm. I have 3 close friends I've been hunting with for years now that have 7mm mags and they seem to have it figured out and their 7mms feel like 243's so I'll take my chances with that as a guide. ;)
Post by: jackelope on January 11, 2015, 09:20:36 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftapatalk.imageshack.com%2Fv2%2F15%2F01%2F11%2F3054269213f14c516f3f7ae59d469329.jpg&hash=e0ac60ae34c43af66d184203fbe53051beeaefc8)
Post by: jackelope on January 11, 2015, 09:24:11 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftapatalk.imageshack.com%2Fv2%2F15%2F01%2F11%2F3fb7237014e7a72472a4cda13a7269e4.jpg&hash=6e56ef975748d9a50245eba621c9c0aebcb07e4d)
Post by: jackelope on January 11, 2015, 09:26:00 PM
Post by: kentrek on January 11, 2015, 09:39:12 PM
but what are the odds that 90% of the people will be shooting that far??
Exactly :tup:
Post by: Bob33 on January 11, 2015, 09:44:11 PM
Will be, perhaps. Should be - absolutely not. The difference in trajectory between 7mm and 30 caliber magnums is negligible at reasonable distances.but what are the odds that 90% of the people will be shooting that far??
Exactly :tup:
Post by: Shane54 on January 11, 2015, 10:11:54 PM
Post by: M_ray on January 11, 2015, 11:41:18 PM
It's 'ballistic coefficient' and I guess depending on which bullet you're looking at, maybe the 7mm might have a higher BC but with the Accubond LR, the .308 cal bullet wins out, doesn't it?
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftapatalk.imageshack.com%2Fv2%2F15%2F01%2F11%2F3054269213f14c516f3f7ae59d469329.jpg&hash=e0ac60ae34c43af66d184203fbe53051beeaefc8)
I suppose so that is if you're willing to shoot a 210 grn bullet and compare it to a 168? All things being equal you would have to compare both at 168 right? It's not only BC Im looking for otherwise I would just shoot the 210. Personally if I am looking to get away from the muzzlebreak and the recoil then a 210 defeats that purpose ...
Post by: coachcw on January 12, 2015, 06:21:01 AM
Post by: Taco280AI on January 12, 2015, 09:04:23 AM
Real world, and not just on paper, what will the 270 do that the 7RM won't? What will the 7RM do that the 270 won't? What will the 300 Win do that the 7RM won't? What will the 7RM do that the 300 won't?
Real differences on game, not paper. All overlap in what they can do and in hunting I doubt there is anything the 270 or 300 can that the 7mm can't. Other than just because, why the 7mm when you already had the other two?
I love my 280AI and yet wouldn't mind other rifles, but can't find any real advantage in what they would offer unless I went with a big 338 or down to a 223... except for simply just wanting them.
Post by: M_ray on January 12, 2015, 03:16:39 PM
With the Berger hunting bullets, is there even a legit difference? The .284 is a little higher, but is it enough to make a difference? (That's a legit question, I don't know)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftapatalk.imageshack.com%2Fv2%2F15%2F01%2F11%2F3fb7237014e7a72472a4cda13a7269e4.jpg&hash=6e56ef975748d9a50245eba621c9c0aebcb07e4d)
Yes for the vdl hunting 168 grn 7mm @ 0.617 is considerably higher at long range than the same vdl hunting 168 grn 30 cal @ 0.473
that is a better comparison than trying to compare a 7mm 168 against a 30 cal 210 and that is exactly what my first comment to elkoholic was about. Choosing a 210grn is one of the only ways to find BC's that high on the 30cal, everything in the 168 165 range is under and some way under 0.500 for the 30 as compared to the 7 mm. In the 7 there are many choices over 0.500 and I believe I was finding the same in the 180 grn as well ... I'd have to back and find all my notes to be completely sure on that one.
Post by: jackelope on January 12, 2015, 03:22:42 PM
Post by: M_ray on January 12, 2015, 04:15:46 PM
Anyway with my 300 I don't shoot heavy bullets I shoot 150grn nosler partition hand loads with a BC of 0.345. My goal at the time was to keep it flat. I have had passed opportunities at big bucks because they were at extended ranges so I passed those shots due to the bullet and scope combo I have (no custom turrets) so at 500 or more yards it is just a hold over I'm not willing to take. But at the longer ranges I have been shooting lately I know 0.345 can do it but Will most certainly loose power at the end of longer ranges and accuracy on lower BC's will also be a question at the extended range. This may be one reason most will say people shouldn't be shooting that far? You can't just sit down with a magnum and any old bullet off the shelf and shoot accurately out to 5-600 or more yards just because the gun is capable, you need the right bullet to start with.
So at first I was just going to set up my 300 but that's when I couldn't find bullets for the 300 in the 0.500 or greater range without going way up in weight. I will keep the 300 and when I get the 7 built start trying to maximize all I can out of that one, I also didn't want to tear apart my 300 and be without a gun so this way I can get one set up knowing I have one that is working and not have to worry about being without.
Post by: HillSlick on January 13, 2015, 11:03:11 AM
-"Progress once meant hope for the future, now it will destroy it."
Post by: JohnVH on January 13, 2015, 11:06:13 AM