Post by: bigbeamhunter on July 22, 2014, 09:14:18 AM
Post by: HUNT-HARD on July 22, 2014, 09:24:33 AM
Post by: Special T on July 22, 2014, 09:26:01 AM
Post by: jackelope on July 22, 2014, 09:53:11 AM
Post by: AspenBud on July 22, 2014, 11:16:03 AM
I'm not discounting your story or the fact that there may or may not be wolves there, but I will 99% guarantee you that the state will not "confirm" it was a wolf based on a picture.
Geez what a buzzkill man. :chuckle:
Post by: bigbeamhunter on July 22, 2014, 09:48:41 PM
Post by: farmin4u_98948 on July 22, 2014, 10:00:56 PM
Post by: 3dvapor on July 22, 2014, 10:10:29 PM
Post by: bigbeamhunter on July 22, 2014, 11:58:00 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on July 23, 2014, 01:48:04 AM
I know a few of the logging guys have heard and seen them on a few occasions. Oh and there is plenty for them to eat and not starve :'(
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 23, 2014, 06:41:31 AM
Post by: Curly on July 23, 2014, 09:09:47 AM
Well I guess it there were several pics taking and they told him it was. When I found the tracks last year. I Called the game dept they told me it wasn't a wolf and it was a big coyote or a hybrid. So me being me I said I guess I can shoot it. And I got a stern that would not be wiseThat right there is funny. They tell you it isn't a wolf then say it would not be wise to shoot. :D
Post by: wolfbait on July 23, 2014, 09:46:48 AM
Well I guess it there were several pics taking and they told him it was. When I found the tracks last year. I Called the game dept they told me it wasn't a wolf and it was a big coyote or a hybrid. So me being me I said I guess I can shoot it. And I got a stern that would not be wise
My guess is, there is at least one pack in the area, probably more. You won't get a wolf pack confirmed until it starts killing dogs or livestock.
Post by: lamrith on July 23, 2014, 09:48:35 AM
And With video proofWell I guess it there were several pics taking and they told him it was. When I found the tracks last year. I Called the game dept they told me it wasn't a wolf and it was a big coyote or a hybrid. So me being me I said I guess I can shoot it. And I got a stern that would not be wise
My guess is, there is at least one pack in the area, probably more. You won't get a wolf pack confirmed until it starts killing dogs or livestock.
Post by: WSU on July 23, 2014, 09:53:24 AM
Post by: Special T on July 23, 2014, 09:59:41 AM
Post by: LDennis24 on July 23, 2014, 10:38:15 AM
Post by: motg9_6 on July 23, 2014, 01:30:27 PM
wither way they are here and its not a good thing.
Post by: bigbeamhunter on July 23, 2014, 04:26:34 PM
Post by: steen on July 23, 2014, 04:28:23 PM
Well I guess it there were several pics taking and they told him it was. When I found the tracks last year. I Called the game dept they told me it wasn't a wolf and it was a big coyote or a hybrid. So me being me I said I guess I can shoot it. And I got a stern that would not be wiseI would have to agree. If it is not a wolf to them then it is a coyote and shootable! Lol
Post by: idahohuntr on July 23, 2014, 06:32:07 PM
i also know at least a breeding par was released outside of trout lake in the pinchot. state denies it but they were watched when it happened. :bash:So where does the state get these wolves they are planting all over?
Post by: grundy53 on July 23, 2014, 06:39:23 PM
Post by: motg9_6 on July 24, 2014, 06:24:58 AM
you tell me and we will both know :dunno:i also know at least a breeding par was released outside of trout lake in the pinchot. state denies it but they were watched when it happened. :bash:So where does the state get these wolves they are planting all over?
im assuming theres no shortage in other places they had to get them for Yellowstone and other places at some point as well
Post by: Curly on July 24, 2014, 08:46:45 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 24, 2014, 09:06:33 AM
Could someone from Wolf Haven have released wolves? Possibly. There was also a wolf hybrid breeder in Amboy or Chelachie Prairie several years ago who lost fencing and subsequently released several wolf hybrids. Whether or not they were all recovered, I have no idea. In addition, wolves move great distances, as we say with the pair that moved into No. CA from E. OR. I have no trouble believing that wolves could have traveled to Klickitat from other parts of WA on their own. A wolf pack in the So. Cascades has been part of the adopted wolf plan all along.
The transplant theories are way out of whack with the realities of performing them.
Post by: bobcat on July 24, 2014, 11:41:48 AM
Possibly certain individuals have released wolves. That's an unknown factor. Just like people release unwanted species of fish in bodies of water all across the state.
Post by: Special T on July 24, 2014, 11:44:07 AM
Since we are not allowed to know the status or details of what the state does do regaurding wolves "for thier safety" does not increase my trust for the bunny huggers running the wolf program.
Post by: motg9_6 on July 24, 2014, 03:11:57 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on July 24, 2014, 03:26:43 PM
I think wolves being relased by some private party with a wink and a nod from the state is:chuckle: laughable would be a better word choice.plausable...
Since we are not allowed to know the status or details of what the state does do regaurding wolves "for thier safety" does not increase my trust for the bunny huggers running the wolf program.If you do not know the status or details of WDFW's wolf management activities I suggest you open your eyes and ears because it is everywhere in every newspaper and on multiple websites. :tup:
Post by: Special T on July 24, 2014, 04:10:28 PM
What i Mean is that We cannot request specifics onthe details of the wolves. IE how many does the state have collard, What is the general area of opertaion of said wolves.
It has been repeated on here MANY times Conversations where some one has seen a tagged animal, Wolf griz etc, and they were blown off until they brought up the tag.
If you can get your FOI request for that info processed please share how you got it done. It has been tried and was not approved.
I think YOU are a shill.
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 24, 2014, 04:37:15 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on July 24, 2014, 04:53:44 PM
Your condensention is duly noted.Call Danny Mortorello - (360) 902-2521. I bet he will give you the exact number of wolves collared in WA right now, and can probably answer any question you have about general areas of various packs. What they can't do is give you very specific information on current wolf locations. Other than that...I'm sure he will tell you whatever you want to know. It is disingenuous to suggest wdfw hides wolf information.
What i Mean is that We cannot request specifics onthe details of the wolves. IE how many does the state have collard, What is the general area of opertaion of said wolves.
It has been repeated on here MANY times Conversations where some one has seen a tagged animal, Wolf griz etc, and they were blown off until they brought up the tag.
If you can get your FOI request for that info processed please share how you got it done. It has been tried and was not approved.
I think YOU are a shill.
You can think what you want about calling me names. I can understand how it makes it easier for you to try and dismiss what I tell you because you can't do it with facts or logic...name calling always starts on these threads when folks have exasperated their intellectual abilities...it is really quite old and pathetic.
Post by: idahohuntr on July 24, 2014, 04:59:52 PM
He's certainly that, Special T, but he'll cry about you saying so and you'll be censored for saying so. He's incapable of discussing anything without condescension or taking the side of the WDFW. Some of us understand the reasons why.I'm incapable of discussing anything without condescension says the guy who gets censored for name calling :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Why don't you stick with your earlier post and just help correct fellow hunters from repeating lies about wolf introductions in Washington? :brew:
Post by: Bigshooter on July 24, 2014, 05:11:35 PM
Post by: grundy53 on July 24, 2014, 05:39:24 PM
Post by: Special T on July 25, 2014, 07:29:21 AM
YOU likely have not read very many of my posts, and I have read nearly all of yours. I don't call names or puff up my chest. I try and call it as i see it.
Post by: idahohuntr on July 25, 2014, 11:13:25 AM
"A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with the person or organization."This is where your name calling falls apart though Special T - I call it how I see it as well and because you disagree with me and apparently have no facts to respond you have to resort to name calling and false accusations. I realize when I defend WDFW or other state agencies it is very unpopular around here...but I have no interest in trying to be the popular guy. I always call it how I see it...not just when its the popular thing to do.
YOU likely have not read very many of my posts, and I have read nearly all of yours. I don't call names or puff up my chest. I try and call it as i see it.
Your suggestion that I have some relationship with WDFW or their staff or that they use me as a "plant" is absurd and untrue. You are not original in such a false claim but I have absolutely no ties to WDFW and certainly do not serve as any type of a "plant" for them. Why don't we just agree to debate the topic and not focus on the individuals making the argument? Debate the facts, evidence, policies etc...not the individuals providing the different perspectives.
So, to get back on topic...No, there is no credible evidence that WDFW ever planted wolves in Washington, and yes, Washington wolf management information is abundant and available to anyone who would like to see it...it is a very transparent program. Last, of course there are going to be wolves in/around Klickitat...call Donny...he will tell you that it is very possible/likely that a wolf could literally be spotted anywhere in the entire state of Washington. ANYWHERE! They are highly migratory animals and their population is expanding in WA state.
Post by: Curly on July 25, 2014, 11:23:59 AM
;)
:chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: grousefether on July 25, 2014, 11:33:57 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 25, 2014, 11:43:14 AM
"A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with the person or organization."This is where your name calling falls apart though Special T - I call it how I see it as well and because you disagree with me and apparently have no facts to respond you have to resort to name calling and false accusations. I realize when I defend WDFW or other state agencies it is very unpopular around here...but I have no interest in trying to be the popular guy. I always call it how I see it...not just when its the popular thing to do.
YOU likely have not read very many of my posts, and I have read nearly all of yours. I don't call names or puff up my chest. I try and call it as i see it.
Your suggestion that I have some relationship with WDFW or their staff or that they use me as a "plant" is absurd and untrue. You are not original in such a false claim but I have absolutely no ties to WDFW and certainly do not serve as any type of a "plant" for them. :rolleyes: Why don't we just agree to debate the topic and not focus on the individuals making the argument? Debate the facts, evidence, policies etc...not the individuals providing the different perspectives.
So, to get back on topic...No, there is no credible evidence that WDFW ever planted wolves in Washington, and yes, Washington wolf management information is abundant and available to anyone who would like to see it...it is a very transparent program. Last, of course there are going to be wolves in/around Klickitat...call Donny...he will tell you that it is very possible/likely that a wolf could literally be spotted anywhere in the entire state of Washington. ANYWHERE! They are highly migratory animals and their population is expanding in WA state.
Post by: motg9_6 on July 25, 2014, 02:23:47 PM
Post by: 4fletch on July 25, 2014, 06:31:38 PM
Post by: REHJWA on July 25, 2014, 07:38:35 PM
Post by: wolfbait on July 26, 2014, 06:00:50 AM
i dont think the wolves were ever wiped out in this area. there have been supposed sittings for years before they became a problem in the state. with that said the population sure grew really fast in our area without sightings of them getting here. yakima res has a pack they are watching some outside of troutlake and now above klickitat almost all at once. kinda wierd
Alberta wolves are telepathic, they know right where the USFWS and WDFW want them.
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 26, 2014, 06:53:29 AM
The government would not lie to us
They lie to us about a lot. But would any of them risk their jobs, fines and/or imprisonment, pensions, and benefits to illegally move some wolves without going through the steps required by law? Not a chance. It would be against state and federal law.
Post by: Special T on July 26, 2014, 06:57:52 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 26, 2014, 07:31:41 AM
Post by: wolfbait on July 26, 2014, 09:00:06 AM
The liability to an individual or individuals involved in moving animals without doing the required EIS and quarantines would qualify any state official as insane for doing so, never mind a conspiracy that would be required to accomplish it. And, there's nothing in the budget to do it through the correct path, nor has there been any plan submitted to the legislature. I would find it astronomically unlikely that this has happened by a state employee or agency, or has been sanctioned by such.
Could someone from Wolf Haven have released wolves? Possibly. There was also a wolf hybrid breeder in Amboy or Chelachie Prairie several years ago who lost fencing and subsequently released several wolf hybrids. Whether or not they were all recovered, I have no idea. In addition, wolves move great distances, as we say with the pair that moved into No. CA from E. OR. I have no trouble believing that wolves could have traveled to Klickitat from other parts of WA on their own. A wolf pack in the So. Cascades has been part of the adopted wolf plan all along.
The transplant theories are way out of whack with the realities of performing them.
If folks from Wolf Haven etc. are releasing wolves, then WDFW are supplying them with WDFW rigs, because all of the wolf releases I have learned of, were from WDFW pickups, or trailers pulled by WDFW rigs. Just about all of them there was a semi truck loaded with wolf crates just out of Spokane at a rest stop headed for the ONP.
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 26, 2014, 09:08:25 AM
Post by: grousefether on July 26, 2014, 09:46:52 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 26, 2014, 09:54:12 AM
Even if there was video/picture evidence its unlikely anything would be done. Im convinced it would be swept under the rug somehow. My guess is the statement would say they were relocating problem yotes ha ha ha! Its just getting harder and harder to believe anything that falls out of there mouth :dunno:
If I had verifiable video or photographic evidence, I would take it to the AG. A great many of us would. The problem is that if there's no evidence, then most reasonable people wouldn't believe that anyone in their right mind would expose themselves to the repercussions of doing this outside of established procedure for trans-locating wildlife. If it happened and was witnessed, there must be photographic evidence.
Post by: motg9_6 on July 27, 2014, 07:06:17 PM
Post by: REHJWA on July 28, 2014, 05:19:31 AM
Post by: wolfbait on July 28, 2014, 07:38:23 AM
Look at WDFW's protection of predators. Does anyone remember when WDFW stopped the cougar hunting during deer season, the one time a year when there are more people in the woods then any other time. Can anyone explain WDFW's reasoning there? Then you have WDFW's own status of the endangered wolves in WA, thats after the feds delist.
If WDFW actually cared about the ungulates they would open up the seasons on predators that aren't protected to the point that they would be balanced to fit their prey base.
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 28, 2014, 07:48:17 AM
Predator management IS severely lacking in WA and an entirely different topic from a supposed covert wolf transplanting conspiracy.
Post by: idahohuntr on July 28, 2014, 07:53:23 AM
They don't need to "supply" them. They're coming in all on their own. You can easily see from the dispersion of packs from where they're emanating. Even ignoring regard for the hugely expensive process required by law (law which was followed in the aforementioned transplants), an individual government employee taking this on at the risk of not only his job but fines and even imprisonment is almost inconceivable. Again, I wouldn't put it past Wolf Haven or some other wolf rescue facility. But whatever the government employees are (WDFW, USF, USFWS), they're not stupid.:yeah: :yike:
Post by: wolfbait on July 28, 2014, 07:56:21 AM
They don't need to "supply" them. They're coming in all on their own. You can easily see from the dispersion of packs from where they're emanating. Even ignoring regard for the hugely expensive process required by law (law which was followed in the aforementioned transplants), an individual government employee taking this on at the risk of not only his job but fines and even imprisonment is almost inconceivable. Again, I wouldn't put it past Wolf Haven or some other wolf rescue facility. But whatever the government employees are (WDFW, USF, USFWS), they're not stupid.
Predator management IS severely lacking in WA and an entirely different topic from a supposed covert wolf transplanting conspiracy.
"They don't need to "supply" them. They're coming in all on their own."
I wish you were right Planoman. Maybe a few cross over on the state borders but the majority of the wolves get a free ride into WA and anywhere else wolves are desired.
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 28, 2014, 08:11:02 AM
Post by: notawolffan on July 28, 2014, 08:05:56 PM
Post by: motg9_6 on July 28, 2014, 08:33:14 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 29, 2014, 06:07:55 AM
Three or four separate occasions I have seen a wolf. Not one of the times was I able to get my cell phone or camera out in time to take a photo. The second time I did have confirmation from someone else who also saw the wolf, that it was indeed a wolf. That time the wolf ran across the road in front of me, slinking from one side to the other like a rat. It obviously could smell us and was trying to be as inconspicuous as possible. On a logging road it takes one second for a wolf to cross. On a two lane road maybe two seconds. Two seconds is not enough time to get your phone out of your pocket, enter your password, choose your camera app, focus and take a shot. No way. I saw what looked like a wolf cross in front of me on Spirit Lake Highway last week. Totally freaked me out. I was looking out for deer, driving up to Silver Lake, just passed a dead deer on the side of the road, something ran across the road in front of me, it was big like a deer but dark, didn't run like a deer. Saw it in silhouette crossing the road, maybe it was a dog but it wasn't near a house. By the time I pulled over at the side of the road it was gone. Turned around and went back but there was no sign of it. I know what I saw. Just because you didn't take a picture of it doesn't mean it didn't happen. What if that was the level of proof we required for automobile accidents? 'Officer he ran a red light.' 'Did you take a picture of it?' 'No there wasn't time.' 'Well then I guess he didn't run a red light, did he?' You can't always take a picture of what you see. Doesn't mean it didn't happen.
The person I was responding to was talking about WDFW employees releasing wolves. When a truck pulls up and people are releasing animals this is no instant happening. It would take some time to accomplish. I have little doubt that wolves are in the southern Cascades. How they got there is another question altogether.
Post by: westside bull on July 29, 2014, 06:45:22 AM
Post by: woodswalker on July 29, 2014, 07:22:44 AM
It's amazing what we did before cells phones and technology
Its actually faster to get a good 35mm film camera into action than my cell phone camera. I used to drive in the woods with the 35mm sitting on the seat next to me focused to infinity and set for a fast shutter speed or in auto mode.
Post by: Curly on July 29, 2014, 08:32:05 AM
What about the wolves around the Teanaway they just cross all that land and make there home there come on don't tell me they didn't get dumped off there!!
Why is it so hard to believe that they couldn't make their way there? Wouldn't be that difficult.
You ever take a look at how much ground OR-7 covered? He traveled the length of Oregon and into CA and then back up through Oregon. I can't remember where he is now, but last I heard he found a mate in North Central Oregon I think. Anyway, he shows just how much ground they can cover when they want to. :twocents:
Post by: billythekidrock on July 29, 2014, 08:38:18 AM
What about the wolves around the Teanaway they just cross all that land and make there home there come on don't tell me they didn't get dumped off there!!
Why is it so hard to believe that they couldn't make their way there? Wouldn't be that difficult.
You ever take a look at how much ground OR-7 covered? He traveled the length of Oregon and into CA and then back up through Oregon. I can't remember where he is now, but last I heard he found a mate in North Central Oregon I think. Anyway, he shows just how much ground they can cover when they want to. :twocents:
:yeah:
Post by: westside bull on July 29, 2014, 09:06:27 AM
Post by: Curly on July 29, 2014, 09:21:09 AM
Post by: westside bull on July 29, 2014, 09:55:45 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 29, 2014, 10:12:32 AM
But, the point is moot. The wolf plan was accepted and the southern Cascades is included in it for one pack. We knew they'd eventually be there and that their existence there is necessary for the plan to complete and management to commence. For me, I wish they'd transplant the remaining requirements so we can start shooting these eating machines now.
Post by: westside bull on July 29, 2014, 10:48:18 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 29, 2014, 10:53:51 AM
If you really think WDFW is going to get the ok on what happens out in the woods and go threw all these steps what Regional office do you work at ?? HAHA..
You obviously aren't very active in this forum or you'd know how bizarre that suggestion is. The WDFW doesn't like me very much. I'm only saying that wolves are here to stay. The sooner we reach plan goals, the sooner we can start killing wolves.
Post by: jasnt on July 29, 2014, 11:32:29 AM
What makes it "all of a sudden" that they were found there? Wolves have been in this state for a long, long, time. A lot just travel through back and forth from Canada in the past. Maybe they just felt like taking up residence there. I just don't see how one can simply jump to the conclusion that they had to be dropped off? :dunno:
uh probably because that's how they got to other places. They released them in Yellowstone, Idaho,Montana ,ECT. So why is it so hard to believe they haven't done it here. Im sure plenty have traveled here but not all.
Post by: bobcat on July 29, 2014, 12:24:59 PM
Like I said before. Read the wolf plan. Does it say anything about wolves being released in Washington? No? Then it didn't happen.
Post by: westside bull on July 29, 2014, 12:25:32 PM
What makes it "all of a sudden" that they were found there? Wolves have been in this state for a long, long, time. A lot just travel through back and forth from Canada in the past. Maybe they just felt like taking up residence there. I just don't see how one can simply jump to the conclusion that they had to be dropped off? :dunno:
uh probably because that's how they got to other places. They released them in Yellowstone, Idaho,Montana ,ECT. So why is it so hard to believe they haven't done it here. Im sure plenty have traveled here but not all. :yeah:
Post by: motg9_6 on July 29, 2014, 01:26:29 PM
Douglas MacArthur
Post by: bigmacc on July 29, 2014, 07:04:40 PM
It's hard to believe because there is an extensive legal process they would be required to go through, before releasing wolves in this state. Just as they had to do in all the other states. Never did they secretly release wolves in those other states. And it's extremely unlikely they would have done so here,
Like I said before. Read the wolf plan. Does it say anything about wolves being released in Washington? No? Then it didn't happen.
With all due respect bobcat,how do we really know wolves were not "secretly" released here in this state or any other for that matter,not saying some were not released legally with proper protocol and some did not migrate or wander from point A to point B. There are alot of things done in goverment agencies within countrys all over the world that are kept "secret" and has been practiced for years. By definition the word "secret" is, "something kept hidden or unexplained...something kept from the knowledge of others".Its done all the time,or at least more than we know,after all if we did know about "secret" releases or anything trying to be "kept from the knowledge of others" then it wouldnt be a secret any more would it?. I,m kind of on the fence with this, lots of things have been done thru history that originally were supposed to have been kept hidden or kept from the knowledge of others. Not saying secret releases happened,just saying it wouldnt surprise me....as always,just my :twocents:
Post by: bobcat on July 29, 2014, 07:18:46 PM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on July 29, 2014, 07:37:48 PM
With all due respect bobcat,how do we really know wolves were not "secretly" released here in this state or any other for that matter,not saying some were not released legally with proper protocol and some did not migrate or wander from point A to point B. There are alot of things done in goverment agencies within countrys all over the world that are kept "secret" and has been practiced for years. By definition the word "secret" is, "something kept hidden or unexplained...something kept from the knowledge of others".Its done all the time,or at least more than we know,after all if we did know about "secret" releases or anything trying to be "kept from the knowledge of others" then it wouldnt be a secret any more would it?. I,m kind of on the fence with this, lots of things have been done thru history that originally were supposed to have been kept hidden or kept from the knowledge of others. Not saying secret releases happened,just saying it wouldnt surprise me....as always,just my :twocents:
Challenging one's opponent in any sort of debate to "prove a negative" is decidedly weak. Prove that JFK, Pope JP II and Ronald Reagan are in fact dead, and not plotting a scheme for world domination from the ISS.
You can't, so it must be true, right?
Post by: Wazukie on July 29, 2014, 07:39:48 PM
With all due respect bobcat,how do we really know wolves were not "secretly" released here in this state or any other for that matter,not saying some were not released legally with proper protocol and some did not migrate or wander from point A to point B. There are alot of things done in goverment agencies within countrys all over the world that are kept "secret" and has been practiced for years. By definition the word "secret" is, "something kept hidden or unexplained...something kept from the knowledge of others".Its done all the time,or at least more than we know,after all if we did know about "secret" releases or anything trying to be "kept from the knowledge of others" then it wouldnt be a secret any more would it?. I,m kind of on the fence with this, lots of things have been done thru history that originally were supposed to have been kept hidden or kept from the knowledge of others. Not saying secret releases happened,just saying it wouldnt surprise me....as always,just my :twocents:
Challenging one's opponent in any sort of debate to "prove a negative" is decidedly weak. Prove that JFK, Pope JP II and Ronald Reagan are in fact dead, and not plotting a scheme for world domination from the ISS.
You can't, so it must be true, right?
Ronnie's dead :dunno: :cryriver:
Post by: westside bull on July 30, 2014, 06:38:21 AM
Anything is possible but it's extremely unlikely, so I'm just going with the odds. If you think about it, the WDFW could have gotten more than enough support if they wanted to plant wolves in Washington. Us hunters are about the only people who don't want wolves here. Let's just say I bet 80% of the people in this state would support the WDFW in trying to re-establish wolves. So why would they try to hide it? They wouldn't. They'd be heroes to most people. Even if they did want to keep something secret, there's no way they could. Too many employees would be aware of it, and I guarantee at least one would not keep quiet.Even if it was true do you think one of there employees would go public and say something like with there name and face and tell people they work for wdfw and they re-established wolves here no rumors are rumors and to many think they have re-established wolves here and that will not change. I think us the hunters pay there bills so yes why not keep it quite! :twocents:
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 30, 2014, 06:52:59 AM
Don't get me wrong. I don't think there should be a wolf plan that includes a total of 15 packs, including one in the So. Cascades. I'd prefer something more reasonable, like 5 packs, all in someone else's neighborhood. But since the unreasonable wolf plan was approved by the Wildlife Commission and the USFWS, whether they were dropped off or whether they made it there all on their own, we're that much closer to being able to kill them. In the big scheme of things it doesn't matter how they got there.
One last point: If you can show photographic proof that this happened or is happening, we could have the added bonus of sending these wolf lovers to prison for breaking the law. At the very least, it would cost them their jobs and lots of money. If you haven't taken your camera or phone into the woods before, you should be doing it every time now.
Post by: jasnt on July 30, 2014, 07:04:48 AM
I agree. I ALWAYS have a camera with me. I dont always have time to get a pic but I try. Often im rewarded with some decent pics.
Post by: wolfbait on July 30, 2014, 10:33:51 AM
So let's just say for a moment that the unmarked black helicopters came in and dropped off some wolves. According to the approved wolf plan, a pack is required for the southern Cascades as part of the overall plan toward completion and eventual management. Because this is a requirement of the plan and we can't start management until the plan has been completed, what's the difference?
Don't get me wrong. I don't think there should be a wolf plan that includes a total of 15 packs, including one in the So. Cascades. I'd prefer something more reasonable, like 5 packs, all in someone else's neighborhood. But since the unreasonable wolf plan was approved by the Wildlife Commission and the USFWS, whether they were dropped off or whether they made it there all on their own, we're that much closer to being able to kill them. In the big scheme of things it doesn't matter how they got there.
One last point: If you can show photographic proof that this happened or is happening, we could have the added bonus of sending these wolf lovers to prison for breaking the law. At the very least, it would cost them their jobs and lots of money. If you haven't taken your camera or phone into the woods before, you should be doing it every time now.
"So let's just say for a moment that the unmarked black helicopters came in and dropped off some wolves."
Your getting out there a little bit Pianoman! :chuckle: No black helicopters! Dark green pickups with government plates are what has been seen in many of the wolf releases. And as recently as last year pulling a flat bed trailer with wolves in those little metal crates, very early in the morning.
Post by: AspenBud on July 30, 2014, 10:47:50 AM
So let's just say for a moment that the unmarked black helicopters came in and dropped off some wolves. According to the approved wolf plan, a pack is required for the southern Cascades as part of the overall plan toward completion and eventual management. Because this is a requirement of the plan and we can't start management until the plan has been completed, what's the difference?
Don't get me wrong. I don't think there should be a wolf plan that includes a total of 15 packs, including one in the So. Cascades. I'd prefer something more reasonable, like 5 packs, all in someone else's neighborhood. But since the unreasonable wolf plan was approved by the Wildlife Commission and the USFWS, whether they were dropped off or whether they made it there all on their own, we're that much closer to being able to kill them. In the big scheme of things it doesn't matter how they got there.
One last point: If you can show photographic proof that this happened or is happening, we could have the added bonus of sending these wolf lovers to prison for breaking the law. At the very least, it would cost them their jobs and lots of money. If you haven't taken your camera or phone into the woods before, you should be doing it every time now.
"So let's just say for a moment that the unmarked black helicopters came in and dropped off some wolves."
Your getting out there a little bit Pianoman! :chuckle: No black helicopters! Dark green pickups with government plates are what has been seen in many of the wolf releases. And as recently as last year pulling a flat bed trailer with wolves in those little metal crates, very early in the morning.
Why do I always think of this when you write that?
http://www.conconullysupermush.com/ (http://www.conconullysupermush.com/)
Lots of wolfy looking dogs could be hauled around like that and some remote locations are ideal for conditioning snow or no snow.
Post by: wolfbait on July 30, 2014, 10:57:05 AM
So let's just say for a moment that the unmarked black helicopters came in and dropped off some wolves. According to the approved wolf plan, a pack is required for the southern Cascades as part of the overall plan toward completion and eventual management. Because this is a requirement of the plan and we can't start management until the plan has been completed, what's the difference?
Don't get me wrong. I don't think there should be a wolf plan that includes a total of 15 packs, including one in the So. Cascades. I'd prefer something more reasonable, like 5 packs, all in someone else's neighborhood. But since the unreasonable wolf plan was approved by the Wildlife Commission and the USFWS, whether they were dropped off or whether they made it there all on their own, we're that much closer to being able to kill them. In the big scheme of things it doesn't matter how they got there.
One last point: If you can show photographic proof that this happened or is happening, we could have the added bonus of sending these wolf lovers to prison for breaking the law. At the very least, it would cost them their jobs and lots of money. If you haven't taken your camera or phone into the woods before, you should be doing it every time now.
"So let's just say for a moment that the unmarked black helicopters came in and dropped off some wolves."
Your getting out there a little bit Pianoman! :chuckle: No black helicopters! Dark green pickups with government plates are what has been seen in many of the wolf releases. And as recently as last year pulling a flat bed trailer with wolves in those little metal crates, very early in the morning.
Why do I always think of this when you write that?
http://www.conconullysupermush.com/ (http://www.conconullysupermush.com/)
Lots of wolfy looking dogs could be hauled around like that and some remote locations are ideal for conditioning snow or no snow.
WDFW have sled dogs? Really? Do you suppose they were taking them out for some exercise last summer?
Post by: AspenBud on July 30, 2014, 10:59:39 AM
So let's just say for a moment that the unmarked black helicopters came in and dropped off some wolves. According to the approved wolf plan, a pack is required for the southern Cascades as part of the overall plan toward completion and eventual management. Because this is a requirement of the plan and we can't start management until the plan has been completed, what's the difference?
Don't get me wrong. I don't think there should be a wolf plan that includes a total of 15 packs, including one in the So. Cascades. I'd prefer something more reasonable, like 5 packs, all in someone else's neighborhood. But since the unreasonable wolf plan was approved by the Wildlife Commission and the USFWS, whether they were dropped off or whether they made it there all on their own, we're that much closer to being able to kill them. In the big scheme of things it doesn't matter how they got there.
One last point: If you can show photographic proof that this happened or is happening, we could have the added bonus of sending these wolf lovers to prison for breaking the law. At the very least, it would cost them their jobs and lots of money. If you haven't taken your camera or phone into the woods before, you should be doing it every time now.
"So let's just say for a moment that the unmarked black helicopters came in and dropped off some wolves."
Your getting out there a little bit Pianoman! :chuckle: No black helicopters! Dark green pickups with government plates are what has been seen in many of the wolf releases. And as recently as last year pulling a flat bed trailer with wolves in those little metal crates, very early in the morning.
Why do I always think of this when you write that?
http://www.conconullysupermush.com/ (http://www.conconullysupermush.com/)
Lots of wolfy looking dogs could be hauled around like that and some remote locations are ideal for conditioning snow or no snow.
WDFW have sled dogs? Really? Do you suppose they were taking them out for some exercise last summer?
Get some pictures or video and I'll start listening. Be sure to include the date and time taken, and try to get the plate number and logo on the side of the truck. Until then I think a lot of these stories are either made up or from people not understanding what they are seeing.
(sled dogs get run year round, snow or no snow)
Post by: AspenBud on July 30, 2014, 11:12:22 AM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dog-sled.com%2Fimages%2Ffull_size%2F00001790.jpg&hash=827bbb0598ab97eeeacc6c0be3926ca68263ad46)
Post by: bigmacc on July 30, 2014, 11:14:56 AM
Anything is possible but it's extremely unlikely, so I'm just going with the odds. If you think about it, the WDFW could have gotten more than enough support if they wanted to plant wolves in Washington. Us hunters are about the only people who don't want wolves here. Let's just say I bet 80% of the people in this state would support the WDFW in trying to re-establish wolves. So why would they try to hide it? They wouldn't. They'd be heroes to most people. Even if they did want to keep something secret, there's no way they could. Too many employees would be aware of it, and I guarantee at least one would not keep quiet.
Yes anything is possible,some are probable,some are likely or unlikely you name it, but everyone has ideas about this "how did they get here" deal and the fact COULD be that all of them could be right to a certain degree. For my statement of "it wouldnt surprise me" if wolves were released into some areas here and there all comes from an accidental encounter with the game dept way up the Swakane in early december of 1969 or 70?. A bunch of unmarked rigs and a big box truck sitting at the end of the road with a bunch of bighorns spilling out of the box truck,a bunch of guys were on us pretty quickly when they spotted us and in short we were told "we didnt see anything". These are the sort of things that have happened to myself and others to various degrees that can make a guy a little skeptical i guess. I,m in the camp though that they are here, however it may be, so lets get em delisted asap!
Post by: Curly on July 30, 2014, 11:27:15 AM
And like what has been asked before, why risk prison time by illegally releasing wolves? And another thing.......If they really were transplanting them, why wouldn't they be more discreet? I would think they could use vehicles that don't look like government trucks. ??? Nothing about wdfw secretly planting wolves makes any sense...........I'm going to just have to continue to believe that wolves are naturally dispersing unless some evidence can show otherwise. I mean no disrespect to wolfbait or others that believe in those conspiracy theories, but the stories are just too hard to believe right now.......though if more evidence surfaces to show otherwise, I'm open to changing my mind.
Post by: AspenBud on July 30, 2014, 11:30:09 AM
If WDFW is transplanting wolves, why don't they just drop off packs in the Olympics and SW Washington and anywhere else that "needs" more wolves?
And like what has been asked before, why risk prison time by illegally releasing wolves? And another thing.......If they really were transplanting them, why wouldn't they be more discreet? I would think they could use vehicles that don't look like government trucks. ??? Nothing about wdfw secretly planting wolves makes any sense...........I'm going to just have to continue to believe that wolves are naturally dispersing unless some evidence can show otherwise. I mean no disrespect to wolfbait or others that believe in those conspiracy theories, but the stories are just too hard to believe right now.......though if more evidence to show otherwise, I'm open to changing my mind.
It needs to be something more than a picture of an "unmarked truck" too. Plenty of guys haul bird dogs and sled dogs around with fairly sophisticated setups.
Post by: Curly on July 30, 2014, 12:16:44 PM
Post by: motg9_6 on July 30, 2014, 01:25:51 PM
Post by: Curly on July 30, 2014, 07:06:34 PM
Post by: Cascade on July 30, 2014, 07:49:37 PM
How about the moose that are showing up in places like teanaway, Cle elem, Dayton, and other areas that people are not used to seeing them? Are they getting secretly transplanted too? ???
Those moose didn't just show up, they have been there for 20+ years. The only reason they are more and more visible is because the planted wolves are driving them out of the thick stuff.
Post by: Curly on July 30, 2014, 07:55:25 PM
And the wolves didn't just show up either. They have been in this state for over 20 years too. The point is they are not getting relocated by the state.How about the moose that are showing up in places like teanaway, Cle elem, Dayton, and other areas that people are not used to seeing them? Are they getting secretly transplanted too? ???
Those moose didn't just show up, they have been there for 20+ years. The only reason they are more and more visible is because the planted wolves are driving them out of the thick stuff.
Post by: motg9_6 on July 31, 2014, 06:16:24 AM
Post by: wolfbait on July 31, 2014, 06:30:59 AM
your probably right the STATE isnt relocating them. I believe it more the feds USFW that is stuffing this down our throats and despite what anybody says all of these wolves have been transplanted at some point. if they were transplanted to idaho and crossed the border the should have taken that into consideration knowing that wolves are a migrating animal and it should have been approved by neighboring states as well.
The wolves migrated naturally, it's a natural migration!
DNA tests showed that the wolves originated from a population in the northern British Columbia and Alberta provinces of Canada.
"This is a natural colonization," said Fitkin. "The wolves are naturally immigrating." :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on July 31, 2014, 06:50:52 AM
I know what some are thinking, it's illegal and they can't do that. We'll is it worth all the legal rambling at this point, probably not since it hasn't changed anything for the rest of the states that have them and how they got there.
Save the fight for when we get to the states wolf goal and they (the tree hugged and there lawyers, probably the WDFW) that a hunting season can't happen because blah blah blah... They are vulnerable blah blah blah.
This is when we as hunters, sportsman, ranchers and who ever else wants to see reasonable wolf control need to get up in arms about what is going on.
Wolves are here to stay, sorry buts that's reality at this point in our country.
Sometimes you gotta pick your battles, how they got here is not one I think IMHO is one we will never win.
I wish things were fair and equal on issues like this but reality is liberal politicians, and judges appointed or elected are the ones that hold the cards as long as we allow them in office.
So when you go to the polls this fall think and choose wisely about your votes because they do matter.
And for all that like to vote for their pocket book, maybe you should think twice about it because all those programs the dems like to throw your way aren't really worth it, because in the end they always cost you something. :twocents:
Post by: Curly on July 31, 2014, 06:58:30 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 31, 2014, 07:05:13 AM
your probably right the STATE isnt relocating them. I believe it more the feds USFW that is stuffing this down our throats and despite what anybody says all of these wolves have been transplanted at some point. if they were transplanted to idaho and crossed the border the should have taken that into consideration knowing that wolves are a migrating animal and it should have been approved by neighboring states as well.
The wolves migrated naturally, it's a natural migration!
DNA tests showed that the wolves originated from a population in the northern British Columbia and Alberta provinces of Canada.
"This is a natural colonization," said Fitkin. "The wolves are naturally immigrating." :chuckle: :chuckle:
Yes, that's where the wolves transplanted into the GYA originated. If you look at the progression of wolf packs since the original introductions in 1996, it pretty clearly shows the emanation of wolves moving out from Yellowstone and surrounding areas.
But again, it doesn't matter at all. Because the Wildlife Commission passed the outrageous wolf plan, we have to have a certain number of packs with a certain disbursement statewide before management can commence. If the wolves in Klickitat were deposited there by aliens with animals bred on the Mother Ship and DNA collected from the wolves by beaming them up and conducting anal probes, the end result is the same. We're one step closer to management as soon as the pack is established and we can get the WDFW to admit they exist. Once the approved wolf plan started, the best we can hope for is the opportunity to start making rugs in the least amount of time from the start. Bring on the aliens. Bring on the black helicopters. Bring on the dog sled trucks secretly filled with wolves. Deal with it.
Post by: villageidiot on July 31, 2014, 01:36:11 PM
They do their best to prevent people from blasting them with the promise that they will be happy and content once they reach their goal.
At what point will the hunting and ranching community wake up and see these groups as the truly dishonest people they are. The ranching community has seen the light pretty well but the hunters are falling for the lie they spew out.
Post by: wolfbait on July 31, 2014, 01:40:44 PM
Ok does it really matter in the big picture scope of things how the wolves are getting where they are? :peep:
I know what some are thinking, it's illegal and they can't do that. We'll is it worth all the legal rambling at this point, probably not since it hasn't changed anything for the rest of the states that have them and how they got there.
Save the fight for when we get to the states wolf goal and they (the tree hugged and there lawyers, probably the WDFW) that a hunting season can't happen because blah blah blah... They are vulnerable blah blah blah.
This is when we as hunters, sportsman, ranchers and who ever else wants to see reasonable wolf control need to get up in arms about what is going on.
Wolves are here to stay, sorry buts that's reality at this point in our country.
Sometimes you gotta pick your battles, how they got here is not one I think IMHO is one we will never win.
I wish things were fair and equal on issues like this but reality is liberal politicians, and judges appointed or elected are the ones that hold the cards as long as we allow them in office.
So when you go to the polls this fall think and choose wisely about your votes because they do matter.
And for all that like to vote for their pocket book, maybe you should think twice about it because all those programs the dems like to throw your way aren't really worth it, because in the end they always cost you something. :twocents:
:tup: :tup:
It is probably true that no one will ever be held accountable for illegally introducing wolves into Idaho, nor will there be any accountability of the USFWS and WDFW releasing wolves in WA. That being said, I think it is important to know how most of the wolves ended up in WA and why they were released in specific areas. Discussing issues like this one only makes our case stronger, and gives ranchers, hunters etc. better info. in the fight for wolf delisting.
WOLF RECOVERY TIMELINE
1884
Montana implements bounty on wolves
1934
Wolves believed extirpated in Montana
1934 - 1985
Wolves occasionally sighted in Montana, Wyoming and Idaho.
1974
Wolves placed on Endangered Species List.
1986
The MAGIC PACK established in Glacier NP through natural immigration from Canada
1987
The CAMAS PACK naturally established in North Fork of Flathead River in NW Montana
1993
Estimated 45 wolves in 5 packs in NW Montana
1995
15 Canadian wolves relocated to Yellowstone NP
1996
17 more Canadian wolves and 10 wolf pups from NW Montana relocated to Yellowstone NP. 20 wolves relocated to Central Idaho
2000
USFWS determines their are 30 breeding pairs in tri-state area of Montana, Wyoming and Idaho. First year of 3 year
countdown to meet recovery goals
2001
Estimated 550 wolves including 35 breeding pairs in 51 packs in tri-state area. 2001 is second year of countdown
2002
Estimated 663 wolves including 43 breeding pairs in tri-state area. Third year of 3 year countdown. USFWS announces
wolves are recovered in tri-state area.
http://www.mtmultipleuse.org/endangered/wolf.htm (http://www.mtmultipleuse.org/endangered/wolf.htm)
CNW, USFWS and WDFW claim that the wolves in WA came from Canada, one would think the wolves of WA would have expand just as fast as the introduced wolves, but they have not, why is that do you suppose?
In 1991 WDFW claimed there were six wolf packs in Washington's Cascades, that was 23 years ago and over three times longer than it took for the introduced wolves to expand to the point of recovery in ID, MT and Wyoming. By the standards set by the introduced wolves, WA should have had full recovery at four years in1995 and thats on the outside. In Washington, Feds Opt For Wolf Introduction Over Recovery http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/06/08/in-washington-feds-opt-for-wolf-introduction-over-recovery/ (http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/06/08/in-washington-feds-opt-for-wolf-introduction-over-recovery/)
Six years after the first wolf pack in seventy years, the Lookout Pack in 2008 and today 6 years later with 50+ wolves, WA still doesn't have a recovered wolf population? What happened to the wolves of the 1980's and 90's? Why did the wolves introduced in the Yellowstone and Idaho disperse at such a rapid rate? Why did the introduced wolves multiplied at such a rapid rate, compared to the wolves of WA?
Do the introduced wolves have four testicles instead of two, and lose two when they get to WA?
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 31, 2014, 01:50:15 PM
Give one reason the wolf worshipers won't file a lawsuit once the quota has been met. They will find a wolf lover judge that will grant their request and we will drag this out till we have 50 pairs. They did this in Montana and Idaho and it worked very well. If I was one of them I would stick with a plan that works. They do not tell the truth and it's amazing the hunters that keep giving them credit for being honest when they repeatedly lie.
They do their best to prevent people from blasting them with the promise that they will be happy and content once they reach their goal.
At what point will the hunting and ranching community wake up and see these groups as the truly dishonest people they are. The ranching community has seen the light pretty well but the hunters are falling for the lie they spew out.
Wrong, no we aren't. With extremely few exceptions, at least on this forum, the hunters know the danger that these eating machines pose to our wildlife. I know I'm not alone in saying I can't wait to have the opportunity to start killing them.
Post by: Curly on July 31, 2014, 02:23:23 PM
CNW, USFWS and WDFW claim that the wolves in WA came from Canada, one would think the wolves of WA would have expand just as fast as the introduced wolves, but they have not, why is that do you suppose?
In 1991 WDFW claimed there were six wolf packs in Washington's Cascades, that was 23 years ago and over three times longer than it took for the introduced wolves to expand to the point of recovery in ID, MT and Wyoming. By the standards set by the introduced wolves, WA should have had full recovery at four years in1995 and thats on the outside. In Washington, Feds Opt For Wolf Introduction Over Recovery http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/06/08/in-washington-feds-opt-for-wolf-introduction-over-recovery/ (http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/06/08/in-washington-feds-opt-for-wolf-introduction-over-recovery/)
Six years after the first wolf pack in seventy years, the Lookout Pack in 2008 and today 6 years later with 50+ wolves, WA still doesn't have a recovered wolf population? What happened to the wolves of the 1980's and 90's? Why did the wolves introduced in the Yellowstone and Idaho disperse at such a rapid rate? Why did the introduced wolves multiplied at such a rapid rate, compared to the wolves of WA?
Do the introduced wolves have four testicles instead of two, and lose two when they get to WA?
:chuckle: :chuckle: Because of that last sentence, I have to clean my computer monitor. :chuckle:
I can believe the statement of wolves in the Cascades in 1991. I saw a pack in '91 or 92 up above Lake Wenatchee........I almost shot one of them until I thought 'Hey that looks a lot bigger than a coyote'. Then a little after seeing them we saw warning signs posted about the wolves in the area. I wonder how accurate their 6 pack count is? And were the packs just traveling around in WA and decided to head back to Canada eventually? :dunno:
You do bring up a lot of good questions, Wolfbait. But just because there are questions doesn't mean that the only explanation is that they were planted here. There has to be better answers to the questions than planting by WDFW (or wolves with 4 testicles). :chuckle: :)
Post by: Special T on August 04, 2014, 07:57:42 AM
The other question/statement i would ask is why did the wolves in 91 not disperse south? Not only should they have expanded quickly but they should have moved south thought the E cascades .
This does not make sense because the influx of wolves came from ID not from N to south.
Post by: wolfbait on August 04, 2014, 08:32:10 AM
Wolfbait, those questions are the MOST important ones to ask and spread around. Common sense dictates that something does not add up. Since many hunters are old enough to remember the Pysaden being closed to coyote hunting in 91 it shows how the timeline is funky.
The other question/statement i would ask is why did the wolves in 91 not disperse south? Not only should they have expanded quickly but they should have moved south thought the E cascades .
This does not make sense because the influx of wolves came from ID not from N to south.
I have a bit more info. Special T, I'm going to put together a little timeline and then compare it with the introduced wolves in WY, MT and Idaho. That way we can see how much the wolves changed when they cross into WA. There should be some questions as to why the wolves that were introduced into Idaho and the Yellowstone dispersed and multiplied at such a rapid rate compared to the wolves that "naturally" migrated into WA in the 1980's through our present time.
Post by: Curly on August 04, 2014, 08:39:10 AM
Wolfbait, those questions are the MOST important ones to ask and spread around. Common sense dictates that something does not add up. Since many hunters are old enough to remember the Pysaden being closed to coyote hunting in 91 it shows how the timeline is funky.
The other question/statement i would ask is why did the wolves in 91 not disperse south? Not only should they have expanded quickly but they should have moved south thought the E cascades .
This does not make sense because the influx of wolves came from ID not from N to south.
I have a bit more info. Special T, I'm going to put together a little timeline and then compare it with the introduced wolves in WY, MT and Idaho. That way we can see how much the wolves changed when they cross into WA. There should be some questions as to why the wolves that were introduced into Idaho and the Yellowstone dispersed and multiplied at such a rapid rate compared to the wolves that "naturally" migrated into WA in the 1980's through our present time.
8) I'm very interested as well.
Post by: Curly on August 04, 2014, 09:12:34 AM
Here is what is written in the latest petition by the wolf huggers:
Quote
In 2008, the State’s first two packs since the 1930’s were confirmed. Setting up their territory in Pend Oreille County in the northeastern part of the State, one pair, named the Diamond Pack, was first documented in 2008 and confirmed to have pups in 2009 and 2010.http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/meetings/2014/08/aug0114_petition.pdf (http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/meetings/2014/08/aug0114_petition.pdf)
How is it that the first documented pack in WA was in 2008, but there were known wolves in WA in the early 1990's? I assume they likely were here in the 80's too? :dunno:
I suppose I should write to a WDFW bio and ask the question..........
Post by: SteelheadDC on August 04, 2014, 09:38:11 AM
Post by: Special T on August 04, 2014, 09:49:38 AM
Post by: Curly on August 04, 2014, 09:51:03 AM
Quote
Indications are that wolves were naturally recovering in parts of Washington and yet what little money was available for recovery was hauled away and dumped into introduction of wolves into Yellowstone and Central Idaho. Why? Another question everyone should be asking is why at this date when Washington is working on drafting a new wolf management plan, acting as though migration of wolves from Idaho is the first time wolves ever stepped foot there, is there no mention of the wolves that have been breeding and growing there before this apparent migration?
In 2002, environmentalists lined up in droves to petition the USFWS to introduce wolves into Washington. There was no mention at this time of existing wolves in Washington.
What becomes obvious is the lack of transparency and honesty when it comes to dealing with the general public such as in Washington’s effort to draft a new wolf management plan. What’s to hide? Is pretending that this is the first time wolves have made a presence in Washington somehow going to ensure the recovery of wolves? Is there somehow a need to lie in order to achieve the goals of wolf recovery? Don’t the people of Washington and every other state in the this great Union, deserve to know the truth about the history of wolves? In Washington, isn’t it still important to tell the people that wolves recovered on their own as early as 1991 and yet all efforts to recover this species was abandoned in favor of introduction into Yellowstone? Is denying the facts in the best interest of drafting a wolf management plan?
And the biggest question of all: Has there EVER been any honesty and transparency about wolf recovery?
Tom Remington
- See more at: http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/06/08/in-washington-feds-opt-for-wolf-introduction-over-recovery/#sthash.sfMLe60D.dpuf (http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/06/08/in-washington-feds-opt-for-wolf-introduction-over-recovery/#sthash.sfMLe60D.dpuf)
My question though, is why is any money necessary for wolf recovery? What is there to be done to recover wolves? The only money I could see would be for paying ranchers for losses when a wolf eats livestock.
Post by: Curly on August 04, 2014, 09:53:00 AM
Wolves in WA during the 80-90s are skipped over because they do not match the narrative that is being sold us. I Think asking those inconvient questions (and demanding answers) is more useful than focusing on if and how the USFS or WDFW transplanted wolves in WA.
Yeah, I think I'm starting to see it now. It's all about the money. :twocents:
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 04, 2014, 10:38:42 AM