Post by: idaho guy on August 29, 2014, 03:28:53 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on August 29, 2014, 03:30:43 PM
Post by: idaho guy on August 29, 2014, 04:03:44 PM
Post by: snowpack on August 29, 2014, 04:11:03 PM
Post by: Kazekurt on August 29, 2014, 05:13:38 PM
Post by: birddogdad on August 29, 2014, 05:53:57 PM
I would start with chatting here....they might have info you are looking for, however, open sights , that is a looooooong way to kill vs cripple an animal...
Post by: BoomWhop on August 29, 2014, 06:18:34 PM
Post by: bobcat on August 29, 2014, 08:14:19 PM
Post by: idaho guy on September 02, 2014, 08:48:30 AM
Post by: Sabotloader on September 02, 2014, 09:20:16 AM
Bobcat and kazecurt- Thanks for the ethics lesson on how far I should shoot my weapons. Yes there is a group of people who shoot old school open site muzzleloaders way out there. My freind here in Idaho does the shoots so I will just ask him where to go. I also shoot my 30-378 long range and can shoot it at 1000 yards. I shot my moose last year at 620 yards bedded down in brush and hit him in the heart. One shot dead-was that also WAY too far too shoot?I was glassing from a good distance and I watched a group of 3 guys spook a herd of elk and all shoot repeatedly at the herd at 100 yards-no meat hit the ground but I cant imagine they didnt wound at least one. Was that more ethical than shooting a muzzleloader long range? If I dont have the knock down to shoot an elk at 400 yards I wont shoot it. I was looking for information thanks to the few who actually did provide some. I should have said longer range than what I currently feel comfortable shooting a muzzleloader which is 100-150 yard with my current set up
In your case I think the limiting factor would probably be the sights and the energy considerations not necessarily the rifle. And if you are expecting to use it in the Pac Northwest you would also have to consider the ignition system. If you want a truly long distance shooting rifle of the modern variety there two that you might consider on or coming on the market.
The first one might be the Ultimate ML.
http://ultimatefirearms.com/ (http://ultimatefirearms.com/)
and the new one being produced by Remington, the Remington Ultimate
http://ultimatemuzzleloader.com/ (http://ultimatemuzzleloader.com/)
But, were I interested in this type of rifle - I think I would turn to Jeff Hankins and have him build me one of his creations... While he builds mostly centerfire rifles he really make a fine ML also.
http://hankinscustomrifles.com/ (http://hankinscustomrifles.com/)
Might take a look through this thread on Huntingnet
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/black-powder/394060-jeff-hankins-customs-does-again.html (http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/black-powder/394060-jeff-hankins-customs-does-again.html)
Pretty nice creations that he makes... This one is smokeless but it does not have to be.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1279.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy521%2Fpittmankyle%2Fphoto1_zpsa278265e.jpg&hash=d0f4f6ef15983b11e0d179e068a864757b566c8a)
And my last thought to throw out there for a 300 yard gun might be a Knight Mountaineer.
http://www.knightrifles.com/muzzleloaders/ (http://www.knightrifles.com/muzzleloaders/)
Post by: whacker1 on September 02, 2014, 09:22:56 AM
Post by: Sabotloader on September 02, 2014, 09:36:01 AM
Let us know what you find. I have had a difficult time finding sights that would help me extend my range beyond 125 yards. I don't want to extend a long ways, but I would like to practice at 150-200 to make me more confident at the 125 and tighten my group.
I regularly shoot (practice) @ longer ranges out to 200 with a peep sight setup.
This is the setup that I use on the Ultra Lite
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv130%2Fsabotloader%2FKnight%2520ULite%2520%2520-14%2F214ULiteWE.jpg&hash=7e562c1885600a8fa1fb812dc0edc9a269771d0d) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sabotloader/media/Knight%20ULite%20%20-14/214ULiteWE.jpg.html)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv130%2Fsabotloader%2FKnight%2520ULite%2520%2520-14%2FP1010009.jpg&hash=db8d877324dcdf48cb1347088156e6fd1882eace) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sabotloader/media/Knight%20ULite%20%20-14/P1010009.jpg.html)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv130%2Fsabotloader%2FKnight%2520Ultra-Lite%2FIMG_2224.jpg&hash=3e4d6da6f640d44c3160e5bb45a61b142bc264cc) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sabotloader/media/Knight%20Ultra-Lite/IMG_2224.jpg.html)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv130%2Fsabotloader%2FKnight%2520Ultra-Lite%2FIMG_2225.jpg&hash=cf3d4320192545554f121903edea77b8ae17fcf2) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sabotloader/media/Knight%20Ultra-Lite/IMG_2225.jpg.html)
The front sight with Williams Fire sight hood... This little hood makes a big difference in the image you see. With this combination I feel very comfortable shooting an Elk @ 200 IF the conditions are right.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv130%2Fsabotloader%2FWhite%2520Lightening%2FFSSight-Hood.jpg&hash=e60ca78b002076022f93743f9ae2ef795dcb8ef6) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sabotloader/media/White%20Lightening/FSSight-Hood.jpg.html)
Post by: whacker1 on September 02, 2014, 09:42:00 AM
You would be able to change the twist at that point as well as hopefully gain a little more veloicty with the longer barrel.
If you could extend your Barrel from 26-30 inches. The profile of the open sights or peep sights, would help you gain the additional accuracy purely by having a greater distance between sights. I would be interested in a ladder style peep, similar to what the competitive 45-70 guys use. I would assume that it would take a gun smith to tap and set the rear sight on our modern Remington's / Knights. etc.
I have thought about making these steps, but haven't gone down that path. i have also been looking for a hooded front site to match up with my peep on my Remington. Williams does not make them that will fit my Remington.
Post by: snowpack on September 02, 2014, 09:55:01 AM
What would you guys think of this? Is .45 cal legal in Idaho? I don't see any larger calibers.
Post by: idaho guy on September 02, 2014, 08:35:06 PM
Post by: idaho guy on September 02, 2014, 08:42:19 PM
Post by: meatwhack on September 09, 2014, 12:11:41 PM
Post by: Stein on September 09, 2014, 12:42:52 PM
Hornady SST ML, has a bc of 0.265 and lists a muzzle velocity of 2325. Zeroed at 100, the 400 yard holdover would be a stout 60" or five feet. It would impact with under 750 ft-lbs of energy.
Post by: TopOfTheFoodChain on September 22, 2014, 08:07:55 AM
Haven't tried any further than 300, don't think I have quite enough elevation left in the rear adjustment.
Post by: 2MANY on August 23, 2022, 09:06:11 AM
Curious what people have come up with for Idaho since back in 2014??
Post by: teanawayslayer on August 23, 2022, 10:52:54 AM
Post by: 2MANY on August 23, 2022, 08:20:44 PM
Just trying to understand what is legal in Idaho.
Pretty sure I can't make that one legal.
Post by: MtnMuley on August 24, 2022, 01:14:28 AM
Post by: 2MANY on August 24, 2022, 06:21:55 AM
I do not understand how to make it legal in Idaho????
Help?
Post by: Alan K on August 24, 2022, 06:56:31 AM
Might be easier for you to explain why you think it is different than any other peep sight and would not be legal in Idaho?
https://www.gunwerks.com/shop/ay-r-e8500-revic-moa-exo-extreme-o-ring-rear-sight-22122#attr=
Post by: jjhunter on August 24, 2022, 07:04:37 AM
Idaho rules keep folks from utilizing modern rifle-like muzzys which I am a huge fan of. Even my Knight bighorn with loose T7, a full bore hunk of pure lead and a percussion cap with factory open sites is highly effective to 250 yards, which to me, is not a short range weapon. :chuckle:
Post by: Alan K on August 24, 2022, 07:10:34 AM
Post by: teanawayslayer on August 24, 2022, 08:02:34 AM
The rifle won’t be legal in Idaho for a few reasons. 1 is that the breach is not exposed to the elements. Two is ignition type (needs to be percussion or musket cap) and 3, it uses the powerbelt ER bullet which is full bore, but not an all lead conical.did you end up buying the gun werks sight? I know you were talking about it.
Idaho rules keep folks from utilizing modern rifle-like muzzys which I am a huge fan of. Even my Knight bighorn with loose T7, a full bore hunk of pure lead and a percussion cap with factory open sites is highly effective to 250 yards, which to me, is not a short range weapon. :chuckle:
Post by: 2MANY on August 24, 2022, 08:58:33 AM
At this point it's obvious I cannot borrow by buddies new toy.
I get it now and thank you.
Did you put the sight on your gun JJ?
Post by: jjhunter on August 24, 2022, 09:12:24 AM
1) there was a bunch of r&d that went into the design for the specific platform it is used on and I didn’t feel like doing math. :chuckle:
2). I was shooting very well to 250 with factory sites and with the bullet I was using, I had concerns with energy out past that distance
3). I am just not a fan of peep sights. Especially in low light or dark background situations. Additionally, if I jump a buck at close range, I can quickly point and dump them on the run with standard sights.
Post by: 2MANY on August 24, 2022, 09:30:14 AM
Post by: wadu1 on August 24, 2022, 10:07:36 AM
Post by: 2MANY on August 24, 2022, 11:43:33 AM
I had no idea how much I would have to pay for a used one.
Post by: idaho guy on August 24, 2022, 05:12:21 PM
Post by: Harleysboss on August 24, 2022, 05:50:18 PM
Post by: idaho guy on August 24, 2022, 06:26:54 PM
Quote from: Harleysboss link=topic=159765 .msg3707991#msg3707991 date=1661388618
Maybe not what you are looking for but.....check out this youtube channel " Idaho Lewis "and watch some of his videos. He's getting it done at extreme ranges with a custom side lock TC Hawken wearing globe fronts and Vernier Tang sight. He's not advocating shooting at animals but demonstrating what can be done with the equipment. Most definitely a legal in Idaho setup! I've shot with him before, He's 100% legit. Many don't believe that it can be done but it can and does happen. There are old school BP shooting matches all over this country and abroad.
Good tip thanks!
Post by: hunter399 on August 25, 2022, 11:42:17 AM
Why don't they make a 30 caliber muzzle loader.
That will take a huge powder charge.
With some kind of all copper hollow point bullet that is heavy 220 or 250 grain ,with good B.C.
Why are all small caliber muzzy rifles for small game.
Like the 300 win mag of muzzle loader.
If I built one,would you buy it.
Oh ya then they might combine muzzy and rifle season.
We don't want that ,do we,I don't really know.🤔🤷
Post by: sixgun_symphony on September 16, 2022, 11:08:02 AM
What you really need is to look at the barrel, the bullet, and the sights.
Think of heavy bullets, 400 to 500 grains weight on a .45 caliber rifle and a fast twist to stabilize it. Rice muzzle loading barrel company has what you need. As for sights, consider the FP Hawken rear sight and a hooded target globe sight with inserts from Williams gun sight company.
Post by: Magnum_Willys on September 16, 2022, 11:30:07 AM
You clowns really think that putting a bolt action onto a muzzleloader and dressing it up like a modern centerfire rifle is going to make it more accurate at distance. Most of those things are shooting pistol weight bullets. :rolleyes:
What you really need is to look at the barrel, the bullet, and the sights.
Think of heavy bullets, 400 to 500 grains weight on a .45 caliber rifle and a fast twist to stabilize it. Rice muzzle loading barrel company has what you need. As for sights, consider the FP Hawken rear sight and a hooded target globe sight with inserts from Williams gun sight company.
See CVA Paramount .40 Cal 225 Gr @ 2850. Shoots 1.5 moa past 400 yards all day with good optics.
Post by: 85yota on September 16, 2022, 01:54:57 PM
Post by: sixgun_symphony on September 17, 2022, 04:34:59 AM
You clowns really think that putting a bolt action onto a muzzleloader and dressing it up like a modern centerfire rifle is going to make it more accurate at distance. Most of those things are shooting pistol weight bullets. :rolleyes:
What you really need is to look at the barrel, the bullet, and the sights.
Think of heavy bullets, 400 to 500 grains weight on a .45 caliber rifle and a fast twist to stabilize it. Rice muzzle loading barrel company has what you need. As for sights, consider the FP Hawken rear sight and a hooded target globe sight with inserts from Williams gun sight company.
See CVA Paramount .40 Cal 225 Gr @ 2850. Shoots 1.5 moa past 400 yards all day with good optics.
I read some articles online and am seeing the usual marketing of "muzzleloader vs rifle" rather than "muzzleloading rifle vs centerfire rifle", as if the definition of rifle has nothing to do with the spiral grooves in the barrel and everything to do with a centerfire brass cartridge. I find that annoying, as the target audience are simply hunters with little knowledge or interest in firearms. I see the faux bolt action on modern inlines and am reminded of P.T. Barnum's quote "There is a sucker born every minute" as the aesthetics are meant to attract modern hunters by keeping them in their comfort zone.
I am seeing impressive muzzle velocities of the CVA Paramount, but I am not finding downrange velocities in the search results that I am getting. Most of the modern inline muzzle loading rifles are designed to shoot pistol weight bullets, and velocities drop down to that of handguns downrange.
Better to go with heavy bullets. There certainly will be more trajectory, that is what the marksman's data book is for. Once you know where to set the elevation for a given range on a rear sight then one is putting a 400gr wt to 500gr wt bullet onto the target.
Post by: Scruffy on September 17, 2022, 05:21:34 AM
Post by: sixgun_symphony on October 06, 2022, 01:29:48 PM
Is there anyone that makes long range muzzleloaders that would be legal in idaho? we have to have exposed ignintion system when ready to fire -no 209 primers/sabots and must use open sights.When I say long range I probably mean medium but long for a muzzleloader-400 yards Maybe something with a ladder type peep sight.
Check out the videos by Idaho Lewis on Youtube to learn about long range muzzle loading rifles and loads.
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