Post by: jpc on September 21, 2014, 10:54:47 AM
I am sure his guide services are probably good, but his DIY maps are a SCAM and definitely on the backburner in my opinion. I will never do business with Bearpaw again and am telling everyone I know the same. I know a lot of people like him and recommend him on here. That was one of the reasons we decided to do it in the first place. However, for us, it was a bad experience and not worth the money at all. Definitely not professional. Thanks for reading!
Post by: bowhunterwa87 on September 21, 2014, 11:05:30 AM
great first post and it looks like your out to make a lot of friends on this site :chuckle:
Post by: SCRUBS on September 21, 2014, 11:25:15 AM
Not to detract from your experience with him or his services.
Post by: go4steelhd on September 21, 2014, 11:35:44 AM
But if he gave you a Map of a whole area Highlighted. I think this is because there are deer thru out that range. I spend a lot of time scouting and could also cicrle on a map where to go in my hunting areas, but this does not mean that every time you go there that you will find deer. Some spots are best at day light, some are good for bedded deer in the afternoon, some right at dark. This hunting season in mid season I went into a spot i found last year and got my buck. I could go back ten more times and not see a deer.
If you want a guided hunt get a guide
Its sounds to me like he did his part, your expections were maybe a little high on what you would get. And if he gave you your money back souds like hes a stright up guy!!! :twocents:
Post by: hrd2fnd on September 21, 2014, 11:42:27 AM
Post by: Payne on September 21, 2014, 11:58:38 AM
Its sounds to me like he did his part, your expections were maybe a little high on what you would get. And if he gave you your money back souds like hes a stright up guy!!! :twocents::yeah:
If you are interested I can tie a deer up for you and put an "X marks the spot" on a map for $500!... haha Jk... couldn't resist.
Post by: mfswallace on September 21, 2014, 12:20:43 PM
Post by: blazenfish on September 21, 2014, 12:32:38 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on September 21, 2014, 12:46:12 PM
Imagine my surprise when I opened the envelope and pulled out a cheap Colville National Forest paper map. Worth, maybe, ten dollars. I opened the map up and Dale has 5 areas circled, in highlighter, on the map. He circled whole mountains and vast other areas.Its not the map you're paying for jpc, its the experience of the person doing the highlighting. If you live a ways from NE Wa, and have little familiarity with the area I suspect it could be of value to you. Identifying hunting and camping areas, types of deer predominant in those areas etc...you would spend far more than that before you even had half of what that highlighted map with notes has given you. If you have decent knowledge of the area and were expecting a gps coordinate of a tree to hang your stand where a 150" buck is waiting...I can see where you would be disappointed. Sounds to me like you wanted a personal guide for a diy map price :dunno:
Post by: jpc on September 21, 2014, 01:02:12 PM
Post by: Payne on September 21, 2014, 01:07:51 PM
Imagine my surprise when I opened the envelope and pulled out a cheap Colville National Forest paper map. Worth, maybe, ten dollars. I opened the map up and Dale has 5 areas circled, in highlighter, on the map. He circled whole mountains and vast other areas.Its not the map you're paying for jpc, its the experience of the person doing the highlighting. If you live a ways from NE Wa, and have little familiarity with the area I suspect it could be of value to you. Identifying hunting and camping areas, types of deer predominant in those areas etc...you would spend far more than that before you even had half of what that highlighted map with notes has given you. If you have decent knowledge of the area and were expecting a gps coordinate of a tree to hang your stand where a 150" buck is waiting...I can see where you would be disappointed. Sounds to me like you wanted a personal guide for a diy map price :dunno:
:yeah:
I guess I could understand, thinking the presentation of the info would look nice, but imo the info is by far the important part, not presentation of info... On the bright side if it's hand done then that probably means that he isn't selling this exact same info to 500 other people and sending you all to the same spot...
I'm really curious though, are you going to use the maps and hunt in the areas that he recommended?
Post by: hughjorgan on September 21, 2014, 01:14:33 PM
Good input from everyone so far! All you guys are right, maybe we expected more than he was willing to deliver. I expected a specific map, with notes that say sit/glass here in the morning, this is a good spot in the evening, etc... I do think our communication must not on the same page. However, I don't believe that what he gave us was worth $300 and he was going to let it pass at that if we didn't ask for more specifics. That bothers me. Also, it took a month to get it (for ten to twenty minutes of work) and his responses to my emails went unanswered for some time, even though he was always posting on here. In the end, I think Dale did us right and the half refund was fair. I still think that for the money, the map we got was a scam. I will try to post some pics soon.
What probably took Dale 20 minutes to mark on a map in reality probably took him years of scouting and hunting the area to know that the info he was sharing with you would be productive for you to hunt if you put in some work of your own before your hunt.
Post by: SCRUBS on September 21, 2014, 01:14:43 PM
Refunding half of the map price was a stand up thing for Dale to do IMHO.
Post by: Quackwhacker on September 21, 2014, 01:19:41 PM
Post by: gr8whthunter on September 21, 2014, 01:22:39 PM
Good input from everyone so far! All you guys are right, maybe we expected more than he was willing to deliver. I expected a specific map, with notes that say sit/glass here in the morning, this is a good spot in the evening, etc... I do think our communication must not on the same page. However, I don't believe that what he gave us was worth $300 and he was going to let it pass at that if we didn't ask for more specifics. That bothers me. Also, it took a month to get it (for ten to twenty minutes of work) and his responses to my emails went unanswered for some time, even though he was always posting on here. In the end, I think Dale did us right and the half refund was fair. I still think that for the money, the map we got was a scam. I will try to post some pics soon.
i dont think its a scam at all, i dont know Dale at all and im fairly new to this site but im not new to hunting, dont even bother posting pics i got a good visual in my head of what the map has on it and its all a map should have if it is going to a "hunter" he is and should not give you specific turn left here turn right here and glass this directions thats not hunting im sorry, maybe you should just stop hunting since you dont want to in the first place. hunting is about finding the spots, spotting the deer and hunting the deer, he helped you out by showing some areas that have a good amount of animals to harvest i assume. so take what knowledge he gives you and run with it, find spots within the highlighted area and hunt the animals that are there. like i saw earlier in this thread, would you like Dale to shoot you a deer and give you a detailed map of where the dead animal lay? would that be better? hey you could even take pictures of it and put it all over your facebook page!... before you get mad at a guy showing you good areas to hunt learn to hunt on your own how bout you try that on. :tup:
Post by: gr8whthunter on September 21, 2014, 01:34:27 PM
Post by: bankwalker on September 21, 2014, 01:36:19 PM
Any single person on this site who has hunted any given area for more than a few years couple easily give that same described information to a hunting area...hell anyone with a little search button know how could give that same described information within a few minutes of searching this great forum
I would be pretty disappointed to receive a shotty paper map with a few highlights
Post by: Tbar on September 21, 2014, 01:48:50 PM
Post by: gr8whthunter on September 21, 2014, 01:51:23 PM
Post by: Bmcox86 on September 21, 2014, 02:03:38 PM
Post by: mfswallace on September 21, 2014, 02:09:27 PM
Post by: jackelope on September 21, 2014, 02:26:44 PM
Post by: rasbo on September 21, 2014, 02:30:41 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on September 21, 2014, 02:33:25 PM
Post by: jackelope on September 21, 2014, 02:38:02 PM
Post by: blazenfish on September 21, 2014, 02:48:39 PM
Post by: jackelope on September 21, 2014, 02:56:48 PM
Ok I didn't think you would have actually posted picks I feel bad for the people that have been working there own time up there. Have lots of there own time and money into demoted now to a hope and prayer
Apparently the OP has no respect for that side of things.
Post by: jpc on September 21, 2014, 03:27:26 PM
Post by: ctwiggs1 on September 21, 2014, 03:33:13 PM
Post by: jackelope on September 21, 2014, 03:35:52 PM
I was just trying to give my honest review and opinion. Please delete this post. It wont let me.
No reason to delete it.
Post by: sirmissalot on September 21, 2014, 03:47:02 PM
Post by: WA hunter14 on September 21, 2014, 03:57:59 PM
Post by: blazenfish on September 21, 2014, 04:59:43 PM
Post by: silverdalesauer on September 21, 2014, 05:33:38 PM
The OP is a fool for the way he acted and even more foolish the way he tried to infect the rest of us with his negative attitude and review of Dale. You chose the wrong forum and the wrong group of outdoors men/women to try to chew out Dale. :bdid:
Sounds like you need to apologize publicly now to Bearpaw... or you might as well forget anyone on here taking you seriously in the future.
Post by: xXLojackXx on September 21, 2014, 06:32:57 PM
Post by: ctwiggs1 on September 21, 2014, 07:30:55 PM
This is comical. Sounds like you should have put an extra 0 on your $300 map price, and paid for the guided hunt that you were expecting.
:yeah:
Post by: bugs n bones on September 21, 2014, 07:37:12 PM
Post by: kentrek on September 21, 2014, 07:59:09 PM
Post by: Bob33 on September 21, 2014, 08:01:10 PM
I've been told many times by other hunters "you should have been here yesterday!", so even very detailed, current information is only valid if you're right there.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on September 21, 2014, 08:01:49 PM
Post by: hrd2fnd on September 21, 2014, 09:31:25 PM
The information from what I saw before the picture was removed, provided me only more questions to go over with Dale when the day comes to purchase.
Post by: bearpaw on September 22, 2014, 02:58:33 AM
jpc has a legitimate complaint in that I was super slow in getting the map to him and definitely at fault for that reason. I was in Wisconsin remodeling my sister-in-law's house for 6 weeks from late June until August and did not have access to the paper map needed to fulfill his request. If I remember correctly I informed him over the phone I was on vacation and would do the map when I got home. The remodel did take 2 or 3 weeks longer than expected so I was ultra slow getting home and sending the map. I don't blame him at all for being upset and will repeat my apology for being so slow.
Paper or PDF Map
I asked jpc if he wanted a pdf which has more detail or a paper map that is handier to take in the vehicle. He wanted a paper map and wanted preferably mule deer areas in NE WA. He told me where they had been hunting for the last several years so I knew where not to send him. I informed him that there were more whitetail in NE WA and that many areas would have both types of deer. For pdf maps I use a digital 7.5 which is exactly what I show in the photos on my website. For paper maps I normally use either DNR or National Forest Maps. Because I wanted to send him to at least 6 mule deer hunting locations in GMU 108, 117, and 113 I needed to use the larger Forest Service map which shows all those GMU's. If I used a 7.5 paper map I would have only been able to show him a couple good hunts on any one map. The DNR maps do show more detail but out of print for Chewelah quadrangle (not available anywhere, not even from the state printing office) so sending a Colville quadrangle and Chewelah quadrangle was not an option. If I remember correctly I marked 8 of the best mule deer areas I know in those GMU's on the forest service map so I actually gave him more info than I had promised.
(When I get a chance I will list on my website what kind of paper maps I use so there will be no surprise to anyone who orders a paper map in the future.)
What I Thought Was Unfair
After I sent the paper map I received an unhappy response asking for a more detailed map or a full refund so I explained that I can't do the sort of detail he wanted on a paper map and I offered to do another pdf map (for the area of his choosing) free of charge. He agreed and sent me details of which area he wanted. I had that map nearly completed and I received another email in which he changed the area he wanted and added more specifics to satisfy some of his family members. At this point I decided I was not going to be able to please the guy and offered a 50% refund. He had admitted he had already been out to one of the areas I recommended so I was not going to offer a full refund, I figured 50% was fair since he already had reviewed the hunt areas and he accepted that offer and I promptly sent the refund the same day I received his acceptance of the offer.
About The Maps
I have a lifetime invested in learning all these areas and knowing roughly how many animals are in one area verses another area. We hunt in most of the areas almost every year because outfitting is my fulltime business. These maps are great for anyone who does not have time to find new hunt areas. I sell the maps for about the same cost as three tanks of fuel. I normally provide at least 4 good areas on every map but in this case I promised 6 areas and I delivered 8 areas. I custom make each map and several of the areas I recommended to jpc I had not recommended to anyone else this year.
Doing Business
I was the lead service technician for a manufacturing company for many years and traveled to 47 states repairing company equipment. Over the years I learned that in any business you can never please all the people all the time. In our hunting business we have a pretty high satisfaction rate, I figure on the average only about 3% are unhappy with our services. That's 3 out of 100 people, I wished I could make it 0 out of 100 people but we haven't been that lucky. Because we provide services (mostly guiding) to more than 100 people every year it seems I have to try and make things right with a few unhappy people nearly every year. It's a part of business that cannot be ignored, but usually if I make things right with people that resolves the problem for both parties. For some reason it seems no matter what you do to make things right eventually someone will carry some sort of grudge and want to ruin your business, I've even had it happen a couple times over the years after making a full refund. Thankfully the majority of hunters are an awesome group of people to do business with, there is not any other business I would rather be doing.
Payments & Refunds for Maps
If someone gives me a credit card I normally do not charge the card until I do the map. Some folks send a paypal payment when they order a map and I have a couple hunters who are waiting on a map right now, if they already paid and want a full refund before they get the map I will gladly do a full refund the same day they contact me. If I have not charged their card and they feel they have waited to long simply contact me and I will cancel the order without putting any charge on the card.
Internet Reviews
Reviews on the internet are a handy thing, I look at them all the time on all kinds of products and services. You can usually read through all the reviews and get an idea if you want to try a product/service or not by the review and the replies. I would ask that the mods do not remove this review and admit that there might be a few other folks who are disappointed in my slowness, especially this year. If anyone is unhappy simply contact me and I'll make it right.
I better get going, I've got a couple more maps I need to get done so guys get them in time to go hunting.
Post by: Duffer on September 22, 2014, 03:57:40 AM
This just adds to the bazillion reasons is why I will continue to do business with Bearpaw Outfitters; until I can no longer hunt at all
Post by: Dbax129 on September 22, 2014, 04:16:09 AM
Post by: rasbo on September 22, 2014, 04:28:46 AM
Post by: Duffer on September 22, 2014, 05:12:10 AM
Post by: boneaddict on September 22, 2014, 05:14:06 AM
Post by: HntnFsh on September 22, 2014, 05:16:01 AM
I do have 1 complaint though... I didnt get to see the map before it was removed :chuckle:
Post by: boneaddict on September 22, 2014, 05:24:43 AM
Post by: grundy53 on September 22, 2014, 06:10:06 AM
Do you know how many big bucks I photograph every year in those circled areas. :chuckle: Damn you Dale. Quit telling people my honey holes. :chuckle::chuckle:
sent from my typewriter
Post by: swift on September 22, 2014, 06:16:27 AM
one to check out his info before I rely on it for an out of state hunt, two to start to get to know each other as I would like to use his services more in the years to come, and three it hands down the best way for me to scout a new area for $300 bucks ! Now it might not be the same as thousands of $$ and years of my own scouting but as a business owner I do not have the Time right now to do that. so far talking with Dale I think he's going to give me Exactly what I'm wanting and that is info where Deer "should" be in some ground I don't know in a season I've never been up there for !!
Now with a little LUCK and a straight flying bullet from my Knight I will be posting a pic to the Deer forum soon !
Post by: blazenfish on September 22, 2014, 06:28:28 AM
Post by: subagang707 on September 22, 2014, 06:53:51 AM
Post by: KFhunter on September 22, 2014, 08:29:45 AM
It shows people what kind of person Dale is and I think more good came from it than harm. Dale had a chance to address the concerns of the OP and came out showing what a class act is.
....in fact it pretty well talked me into buying a map for Idaho should I decide to hunt there in a year or two. I was suppose to go this year but my hunting buddies couldn't make it happen, I'd totally forgotten about the maps :yike:
Dale do you take a phone call or two with the maps? It wasn't mentioned. I bet you could do a 1-900 number and charge $30/hr for a phone call, how sexy is your voice? hahahah :o
Post by: ctwiggs1 on September 22, 2014, 08:41:34 AM
Dale - I'm not the first and I won't be the last. You're my guide of choice and when I draw my moose tag, you'll be getting a phone call.
Curtis
Post by: xXLojackXx on September 22, 2014, 09:15:18 AM
Post by: hrd2fnd on September 22, 2014, 09:35:53 AM
Post by: rover758 on September 22, 2014, 10:23:00 AM
I've spent over $1,500 in diesel over the last 8 weeks in what I could have had for less than $300????!!!! :bash: :bash: Wish I knew then what I know now.
I don't know this Dale guy but it didn't escape me that (on the BearPaw web site) it's clear he's the "owner" of the maps (including the intellectual property therein) and there is the legality of "Copyright © 2010 Bearpaw Outfitters". This Dale must be a bigger man than me to not only give half a refund but to not play the Copyright card.
Tip of the hat to all those on here standing up for what's right.
Post by: jackelope on September 22, 2014, 10:28:12 AM
I'm just and outsider looking in and my :twocents: that I may get change for but I'm gonna post and then duck .....
I've spent over $1,500 in diesel over the last 8 weeks in what I could have had for less than $300????!!!! :bash: :bash: Wish I knew then what I know now.
I don't know this Dale guy but it didn't escape me that (on the BearPaw web site) it's clear he's the "owner" of the maps (including the intellectual property therein) and there is the legality of "Copyright © 2010 Bearpaw Outfitters". This Dale must be a bigger man than me to not only give half a refund but to not play the Copyright card.
Tip of the hat to all those on here standing up for what's right.
This guy "Dale" is "Bearpaw" on this forum. He owns hunt-wa too.
Post by: Netminder01 on September 22, 2014, 10:40:50 AM
We're all in business in one form another and most of us deal with customers regularly. I own a digital marketing services & run a live action video company respectively. My constant focus on customer service cannot waiver or my businesses will. Things happen, they always do and it's impossible to make everyone happy but it's how you deal with customer satisfaction issues that sets like minded business owners apart from those that don't take the time to follow through.
In this case, it seems Dale did everything a reasonable person would expect. No matter how much time was spent detailing the map, it appears the customer might've wanted a different experience than true DIY. I appreciate Dale's drive towards customer satisfaction and willingness to keep sponsor reviews (good or bad) on the site. In the past, I've given my personal dollars to those who really strive for high customer satisfaction and have the same drive to resolve conflicts when they arise as I do.
Go Hawks!
Post by: RadSav on September 22, 2014, 10:51:56 AM
As a bear hunting nut I always wanted to hunt spring bear in the NE. But it is a seven hour drive from Vancouver to the hunting area I was interested in. And with a business that keeps our getaways to an absolute minimum scouting was highly unlikely. So we not only chose to buy the map, but we also chose to stay at the cabins and have our breakfast, dinner served and dishes cleaned. I actually expected a map that listed road systems or general mountain areas. Instead we got the "park here and walk there", "avoid this spot until this date as I know another hunter is in there" type of information. We also got the most important information "Don't waste your time showing up at the opener. Wait until XX/XX/XX and the hunting will be better."
That first trip we did see bear! Not in each and every spot Bearpaw listed, but we did see bear. We did see sign in each spot though. We spent a lot of time covering areas not listed on the maps too. And wouldn't you know it...not nearly the level of sign in those areas as the ones Bearpaw sent us to! Had the wife not been pre eye surgery we would have been successful on that trip. One of the bear we were too slow on was a true dandy in the exact color phase Lorraine wanted. Guess we should have asked for a spot even an angry blind squaw could find a deaf and crippled bear :chuckle:
Between the wife's spring tag and my spring tag the following year we ended up seeing bear in each of the spots marked on the map. IMO that's pretty good for $300! We have now done two turkey hunts with a third planned for 2015, one whitetail deer hunt and two spring bear seasons. We had never met Dale and his wife before that first spring bear hunt. And now we consider them close personal friends. I'm sure that would not have happened if we were not happy with the service we received.
Post by: RadSav on September 22, 2014, 11:16:13 AM
No refunds...this is how Dale "Made Things Right" for me. :chuckle:
Post by: BULLBLASTER on September 22, 2014, 11:37:04 AM
It was very surprising that he opened up so much wihout buying a map and i could tell that he just really loves to help people in any way he can! He gets a thumbs up from me on that! :tup:
Post by: DoubleJ on September 22, 2014, 11:42:56 AM
Post by: 92xj on September 22, 2014, 11:47:47 AM
I bought one and decided to stay at his cabins for my 4 day hunt.
Dale kept me up to midnight the night before telling lies and aching my belly with laughter.
He then had the nerve to wake me up, feed me breakfast at 3:30!
He had me tag out on a spring bear within four hours on my first morning of my hunt.
He then had me spread dirt in his garden, weed it, till it and put seeds in the ground, building a relationship, a friendship.
"had" might not have been the best wording. It was more me volunteering.
A hunt and DIY map experience I will never forget and will always be an amazing story to share.
Post by: boneaddict on September 22, 2014, 11:52:54 AM
Post by: Billdos Uncle on September 22, 2014, 12:02:13 PM
So please repost the pictures or send me a personal message (And im not trying to get a new huntin spot I have mine just curious now that this was posted...) because it is now your property not the moderators on this forum... Work is to be judged and the person doing that knows it when there is a dispute... Unless there is a copy right or disclosure agreement... thank you
Post by: Billdos Uncle on September 22, 2014, 12:04:21 PM
I have been considering the DIY Map option for turkey because I live on the peninsula and 7 hours of driving (one way) to do some scouting is very expensive. After reading this post and so many others about Bearpaw Outfitters I think I will just book a guided hunt!!! Dale, this Sailor looks forward to utilizing your expertise, hopefully next spring depending on deployment schedules...Dude u can go to Teanaway and shoot one of the 50 that are in my field everyday! waste of money especially for a bird!
Post by: RadSav on September 22, 2014, 12:31:46 PM
I have been considering the DIY Map option for turkey because I live on the peninsula and 7 hours of driving (one way) to do some scouting is very expensive. After reading this post and so many others about Bearpaw Outfitters I think I will just book a guided hunt!!! Dale, this Sailor looks forward to utilizing your expertise, hopefully next spring depending on deployment schedules...Dude u can go to Teanaway and shoot one of the 50 that are in my field everyday! waste of money especially for a bird!
Maybe you should start selling maps to your field. $200 :dunno: :chuckle:
Post by: Billdos Uncle on September 22, 2014, 12:33:27 PM
Post by: buckhorn2 on September 22, 2014, 10:21:34 PM
Post by: RadSav on September 23, 2014, 12:02:44 AM
I realize that communication breakdown and lack of clarification lead to disappointments. And when there are unexpected delays those disappointments are compounded. However, in my opinion, being led to an exact spot then told what hillside to watch at what exact time of day and what animals to pass and what animals to take etc...that is a guided hunt! Whether you have a guide looking over you shoulder telling you which one to take and when to shoot or not doesn't matter. Even if there is no one to field dress and pack your animal out that is still, in my eyes, a semi-guided hunt.
Seems from the OP's second post that is what he wanted for $300. We all appreciate getting something for nothing on those odd occasions when it works out. But we certainly should not feel it is a Scam when we don't get it!
In Canada we are forced by law to use guides. >:( Most of the time I have a guide in my pack pocket or one trying to attach a leash around my neck. >:( >:( I would absolutely love it if they would stay at the lodge or spike camp and just let me roam alone. Some of these hunts I pay almost $30,000 for and would gladly pay more if the guides would point me in the right direction then leave me the heck alone! For $300 Bearpaw gave me exactly what I wish I could get in Canada. That's not a scam...that's a steal, IMO!
Post by: Ranger91298 on September 23, 2014, 12:23:40 AM
So let me get this straight. You bought a DIY map from Dale. You didn't like it. You told him. You guys agreed to a 50% refund, then you came on this forum that he owns, complained about the DIY map he gave you, then posted pictures of the map? Wow. If you weren't happy with the 50% refund that you agreed to, you should've said something to the guy. That would have been the adult, man to man thing to do. Have you even hunted it yet? Can't think of a more lame way to approach a concern with a business than this. Did you want a DIY map of a deer tied to a specific tree? If you wanted a guided hunt, you should've paid for a guided hunt.Jackelope, you took the words out of my mouth.... it sounds like Dale did what he thought was the right thing only to get put on blast on a public forum... maybe it is just me, but $300 for a map that gives me a general area is worth it's cost. How much would a person spend in gas driving to a spot that they know nothing about, and then exploring that area. I would say a person is going to spend well over $300 in gas. Now on top of it, he is giving you a general area to look in. Either way, Dale's clients and his work ethics speak for themselves.
Post by: jackelope on September 23, 2014, 05:53:24 AM
In our business we appreciate negative feedback as it often times is the information we need to change course in a positive directions. So I do not have much problem with the OP coming here and writing the review he did. The only thing upsetting to me is calling Bearpaw's service a "Scam".
I realize that communication breakdown and lack of clarification lead to disappointments. And when there are unexpected delays those disappointments are compounded. However, in my opinion, being led to an exact spot then told what hillside to watch at what exact time of day and what animals to pass and what animals to take etc...that is a guided hunt! Whether you have a guide looking over you shoulder telling you which one to take and when to shoot or not doesn't matter. Even if there is no one to field dress and pack your animal out that is still, in my eyes, a semi-guided hunt.
Right on. Negative reviews are how businesses improve the service they provide. How else would they know there was a dissatisfied customer or something that needed improvement? I just think there's, 1, a right way and a wrong way to provide a negative review... And, 2, a valid complaint and an invalid complaint. Now Dale knows for next time what needs improved. Looks like it's been duly noted. Calling it a scam is a lot strong, and coming on huntwa with this is a little excessive after agreeing to a refund. If complaints were ignored by Dale, if there was no communication, if no service was provided, etc. then I'm good with the public lashing. Anyway, that's my take.
Post by: irishevox on September 23, 2014, 09:46:55 AM
Your a standup guy Dale! I appreciate that.:tup::yeah:
I do have 1 complaint though... I didnt get to see the map before it was removed :chuckle:
Post by: ctwiggs1 on September 23, 2014, 01:43:19 PM
In our business we appreciate negative feedback as it often times is the information we need to change course in a positive directions. So I do not have much problem with the OP coming here and writing the review he did. The only thing upsetting to me is calling Bearpaw's service a "Scam".
I realize that communication breakdown and lack of clarification lead to disappointments. And when there are unexpected delays those disappointments are compounded. However, in my opinion, being led to an exact spot then told what hillside to watch at what exact time of day and what animals to pass and what animals to take etc...that is a guided hunt! Whether you have a guide looking over you shoulder telling you which one to take and when to shoot or not doesn't matter. Even if there is no one to field dress and pack your animal out that is still, in my eyes, a semi-guided hunt.
Right on. Negative reviews are how businesses improve the service they provide. How else would they know there was a dissatisfied customer or something that needed improvement? I just think there's, 1, a right way and a wrong way to provide a negative review... And, 2, a valid complaint and an invalid complaint. Now Dale knows for next time what needs improved. Looks like it's been duly noted. Calling it a scam is a lot strong, and coming on huntwa with this is a little excessive after agreeing to a refund. If complaints were ignored by Dale, if there was no communication, if no service was provided, etc. then I'm good with the public lashing. Anyway, that's my take.
Jackelope, you're missing the point: The OP expected Dale to tie the deer up to the tree and provide GPS coordinates. Dale did not deliver.
Post by: Snakeriver10 on September 23, 2014, 03:43:20 PM
Post by: Netminder01 on September 23, 2014, 03:47:59 PM
So time out, somebody took a free map, circled some areas where there are deer and animals in NE WA, told them where to park, camp, and walk to, and charged $300 for this! My gawd, why did I not think of this long ago! :bash:
I betcha Dale wins some extra biz from this free advertising!!! :chuckle:
Post by: KFhunter on September 23, 2014, 04:07:51 PM
So time out, somebody took a free map, circled some areas where there are deer and animals in NE WA, told them where to park, camp, and walk to, and charged $300 for this! My gawd, why did I not think of this long ago! :bash:
You probably wouldn't need a map if all you hunt is your back yard; but if you're a busy dude with limited time and a DIY attitude wanting to hunt in an unfamiliar area - $300 bucks is a bargain for the amount of fuel, time and guess work involved with scouting a new area. It can be overwhelming to hunt unknown areas. What if you got a spring bear in 101 and had no clue where to go? That $300 bucks will put you in good bear areas and can be the factor that gets your tag filled, or you can wing it and head over...stumble around in sub-par areas and go home empty handed - that can be the difference.
Also, no one would buy from you as you don't have the years of guiding experience and a handful of employee's working for you providing a constant stream of intel in which to circle spots on a map and provide areas to hunt. I'm surprised once in a while when an old hunting spot of mine has been altered, destroyed or closed down by a timber company.
$300 bucks for a few hunting spots hand picked by a hunting guide that's in the know, isn't a bad deal.
Post by: hrd2fnd on September 23, 2014, 04:14:49 PM
Post by: Bob33 on September 23, 2014, 04:18:35 PM
Post by: Snakeriver10 on September 23, 2014, 04:41:00 PM
Post by: bassquatch on September 23, 2014, 06:21:01 PM
So time out, somebody took a free map, circled some areas where there are deer and animals in NE WA, told them where to park, camp, and walk to, and charged $300 for this! My gawd, why did I not think of this long ago! :bash:
You probably wouldn't need a map if all you hunt is your back yard; but if you're a busy dude with limited time and a DIY attitude wanting to hunt in an unfamiliar area - $300 bucks is a bargain for the amount of fuel, time and guess work involved with scouting a new area. It can be overwhelming to hunt unknown areas. What if you got a spring bear in 101 and had no clue where to go? That $300 bucks will put you in good bear areas and can be the factor that gets your tag filled, or you can wing it and head over...stumble around in sub-par areas and go home empty handed - that can be the difference.
Also, no one would buy from you as you don't have the years of guiding experience and a handful of employee's working for you providing a constant stream of intel in which to circle spots on a map and provide areas to hunt. I'm surprised once in a while when an old hunting spot of mine has been altered, destroyed or closed down by a timber company.
$300 bucks for a few hunting spots hand picked by a hunting guide that's in the know, isn't a bad deal.
:yeah: :yeah:
I think DIY map sales are probably going through the roof thanks to the OP. Funny how that works sometimes.
Especially for those of us that are hearing about them for the first time! :bash: $300 is a dang round trip over there for me! Where do I sign up?! :tup:
Post by: buckfvr on September 23, 2014, 06:29:29 PM
Post by: Bmcox86 on September 23, 2014, 08:52:34 PM
Post by: quadrafire on September 23, 2014, 08:58:24 PM
Who wants to bet the op still hunts that spot dale circled?I have been thinking the same thing :chuckle: (and those that saw the map when posted)
Post by: csaaphill on September 23, 2014, 10:40:06 PM
How about a photo of the map in question??not to defend this guy but he was asked to post a pic.
Post by: csaaphill on September 23, 2014, 11:10:38 PM
But after that you changing this to that and then not letting him do a PDF map for you for free which is what he offered then demanding a full refund even after using the map at least once your wrong man.
Never met Dale so don't know the guy but from what I've read he seems like one stand up guy.
I've seen his web site once and looked at his DYI maps and prices never realy knew exaclty what they were but now have a better idea. Dale from what I can see went way above the norm in customer service. latley I've been getting the well it's policy so were not doing anything so ya :tup: Dale.
he coudl of just told you to go pound sand :chuckle:
Post by: Seahawk12 on September 23, 2014, 11:39:55 PM
If it hadn't been for you I wouldn't have gone and found the Bearpaw Outfitters website. Nor would I have even known I could get a map like this.
I read through four pages of posts and then went to take a look.
It's too late for me to get one for this season (already have my plans set), but I definitely think the price is worth it for next year. I've hunted a lot of areas and have learned through the course of years that finding a few good spots within vast stretches of wilderness is gold. To have the ability to go try out new areas around 4 different states with the aid of one of these maps is awesome. And for $300? I spent 4Xs that this summer scouting a new area for this season.
Post by: hrd2fnd on September 24, 2014, 12:25:49 AM
pic was posted,but removed by moderatorHow about a photo of the map in question??not to defend this guy but he was asked to post a pic.
Post by: boneaddict on September 24, 2014, 07:14:06 AM
Who wants to bet the op still hunts that spot dale circled?
I'll be there, who thinks I might know where there are some bucks?
Post by: TheHunt on September 24, 2014, 07:52:59 AM
Post by: RadSav on September 24, 2014, 07:55:49 AM
Man, 4 pages and we are still going...
I think Bone is keeping it going in hopes Bearpaw takes note and quits sending folks to his secret spots :chuckle:
Post by: irishevox on September 24, 2014, 08:53:08 AM
Post by: KFhunter on September 24, 2014, 08:56:47 AM
where is this map? lol :chuckle:
http://trophymaps.com/ (http://trophymaps.com/)
Post by: irishevox on September 24, 2014, 09:00:25 AM
Post by: Bob33 on September 24, 2014, 09:06:48 AM
Post by: boneaddict on September 24, 2014, 09:07:56 AM
Post by: irishevox on September 24, 2014, 09:11:23 AM
Here you go.
hahah thats fantastic! :chuckle:
Post by: snowpack on September 24, 2014, 09:25:03 AM
Who wants to bet the op still hunts that spot dale circled?
I'll be there, who thinks I might know where there are some bucks?
Do you care to venture a guess about how much a Boneaddict Calendar Map could fetch on auction? You been thinking about retirement lately? :chuckle:
Post by: hrd2fnd on September 24, 2014, 09:27:25 AM
Post by: CoryTDF on September 24, 2014, 09:50:39 AM
Post by: boneaddict on September 24, 2014, 09:53:55 AM
Post by: grundy53 on September 24, 2014, 09:57:57 AM
sent from my typewriter
Post by: irishevox on September 24, 2014, 10:02:53 AM
Post by: Stein on September 24, 2014, 11:35:03 AM
Regarding value, I went to AK once for a bit of red fishing on the Kenai. We fished for two days and caught a couple each per day (10 hrs fishing). We then went on a guided trip for $150 each and caught 6 each in about 10 minutes. The guide showed us where to fish (what kind of water, not exact spot), the right tackle to use and the right "method" (if you fish reds in AK you probably have this figured out). We tipped him $50 each because he also gave us enough tackle for the rest of our trip.
So, we paid $200 each for a guy to give us a 10 minute lesson in something pretty dang obvious to anyone who knows how to do it and $5 in tackle. On the other side of the coin, we went from novice to expert red fisherman in a morning and had a very successful remainder of our trip (and the next 2 I went on).
In my mind, the value isn't how hard the guy worked, but how much I would have to work to do it without his knowledge or service.
If I paid $300 for a map and a quick chat and it got my daughter and I on a decent animal our first time in an area, that would be well worth the money.
Post by: hrd2fnd on September 24, 2014, 11:40:39 AM
I read this and am trying to scratch up the dough for a map to take my daughter on her first hunt (several PMd me with valuable info as well).perfect example, thanks for sharing this. It's like the saying teach a man and his son to fish and they will eat for a lifetime. :tup:
Regarding value, I went to AK once for a bit of red fishing on the Kenai. We fished for two days and caught a couple each per day (10 hrs fishing). We then went on a guided trip for $150 each and caught 6 each in about 10 minutes. The guide showed us where to fish (what kind of water, not exact spot), the right tackle to use and the right "method" (if you fish reds in AK you probably have this figured out). We tipped him $50 each because he also gave us enough tackle for the rest of our trip.
So, we paid $200 each for a guy to give us a 10 minute lesson in something pretty dang obvious to anyone who knows how to do it and $5 in tackle. On the other side of the coin, we went from novice to expert red fisherman in a morning and had a very successful remainder of our trip (and the next 2 I went on).
In my mind, the value isn't how hard the guy worked, but how much I would have to work to do it without his knowledge or service.
If I paid $300 for a map and a quick chat and it got my daughter and I on a decent animal our first time in an area, that would be well worth the money.
Post by: ctwiggs1 on September 24, 2014, 11:58:39 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on September 24, 2014, 12:13:59 PM
Ok Guys I have been holding out.......... here is my map. Free to HW please share with all your friends. I will make more personal maps on request. I only charge $75 per grid square.Excellent job Cory, in the true spirit of the brotherhood of hunters. :tup:
Post by: RadSav on September 24, 2014, 12:17:23 PM
Ok Guys I have been holding out.......... here is my map. Free to HW please share with all your friends. I will make more personal maps on request. I only charge $75 per grid square.
I would change one thing on that map. The southeast corner should say, "Doesn't matter. You will never get drawn!"
Post by: CoryTDF on September 24, 2014, 12:29:57 PM
Ok Guys I have been holding out.......... here is my map. Free to HW please share with all your friends. I will make more personal maps on request. I only charge $75 per grid square.
I would change one thing on that map. The southeast corner should say, "Doesn't matter. You will never get drawn!"
Thats a great point. I'll put that on my revised map later this year. Might as well just not even put in for those SE units.
Post by: RadSav on September 24, 2014, 12:55:05 PM
Post by: Jonathan_S on September 24, 2014, 12:57:58 PM
Ok Guys I have been holding out.......... here is my map. Free to HW please share with all your friends. I will make more personal maps on request. I only charge $75 per grid square.
I would change one thing on that map. The southeast corner should say, "Doesn't matter. You will never get drawn!"
Thats a great point. I'll put that on my revised map later this year. Might as well just not even put in for those SE units.
So you can draw again :chuckle:
Post by: WaltAlpine on September 24, 2014, 01:38:12 PM
I have a friend from the westside who wanted to take his kids to the NE corner for deer. Too far to scout so he bought a map from Dale.
They tagged out and had a great time. Nothing but good stuff.
Post by: WaltAlpine on September 24, 2014, 01:41:41 PM
:yeah: ... No I will let people hunt the turkeys for free they are leaving little chocolate pies all over the place!!! and I don't like getting poop inside :chuckle:I would be happy to help you out with those pest birds...
Post by: hrd2fnd on September 24, 2014, 02:04:38 PM
He's only allowed to draw with crayons right know. :chuckle:Ok Guys I have been holding out.......... here is my map. Free to HW please share with all your friends. I will make more personal maps on request. I only charge $75 per grid square.
I would change one thing on that map. The southeast corner should say, "Doesn't matter. You will never get drawn!"
Thats a great point. I'll put that on my revised map later this year. Might as well just not even put in for those SE units.
So you can draw again :chuckle:
Post by: csaaphill on September 24, 2014, 02:35:55 PM
No I know was just pointing out that someone did ask him to post it or a pic of his map so the ones downing him for posting the pic would or could get the message.pic was posted,but removed by moderatorHow about a photo of the map in question??not to defend this guy but he was asked to post a pic.
I agree though he should not have was just saying.
Post by: Jonathan_S on September 24, 2014, 03:27:36 PM
Post by: blindluck on September 24, 2014, 06:35:30 PM
Post by: Bob33 on September 24, 2014, 06:45:33 PM
Knowing what I have gained from that guy I feel like I owe him 300That was me!!! I remember it like yesterday. I'll PM you my address, or you can Paypal if that's easier. :chuckle:
Post by: hrd2fnd on September 24, 2014, 06:54:36 PM
:chuckle:Knowing what I have gained from that guy I feel like I owe him 300That was me!!! I remember it like yesterday. I'll PM you my address, or you can Paypal if that's easier. :chuckle:
Post by: Dan-o on September 24, 2014, 07:38:22 PM
I'm starting to look positively about starting a map business of my own. I bet there are a bunch of internet geeks out there that would pay $500 for a Guide to Washington's "Alien BigFoot" map :IBCOOL:
Hey, don't be horning in on my business. I've been incubating the Big Foot topic for years..... >:( >:( >:(
Post by: RadSav on September 24, 2014, 10:12:59 PM
I'm starting to look positively about starting a map business of my own. I bet there are a bunch of internet geeks out there that would pay $500 for a Guide to Washington's "Alien BigFoot" map :IBCOOL:
Hey, don't be horning in on my business. I've been incubating the Big Foot topic for years..... >:( >:( >:(
I figured you would be my first customer :chuckle:
Post by: Duffer on September 24, 2014, 10:35:23 PM
Post by: huntnnw on September 24, 2014, 11:20:42 PM
Post by: RadSav on September 25, 2014, 12:07:52 AM
Bigfoot maps don't matter much neither since I never get drawn for one :'(
As I understand it they are an invasive alien species. I'm pretty sure that means there is no tag required. Though I do not have the college education required to understand all of the WDFW laws and regulations. Might need to refer to Bobcat for that clarification!
I do think if you could get video of them using the butterfly spacecraft to illegally abduct elk in the St. Helens region you could be awarded preference points. With enough of those preference points you could actually get drawn for a Wenaha elk tag. I assume you could then contact CoryTDF for an improved map of the Wenaha unit of choice!
In an effort to narrow down the bigfoot hunting grounds I have made attempts to contact the 14 Hispanic Weyco employees who witnessed the most recent abduction. However, due to their own undocumented alien status I have been getting stonewalled by the big evil timber corporations.
When I officially put them on notice things started to really get weird. 12 to 14 Chevy trucks with air conditioned armored rear compartments with what looks to be satellite links came to my neighborhood escorting two semi-trucks. Combined with the previous sighting of drones over my house I believe I am now under surveillance by one of Obama's secret government agencies!
Due to this I will be unable to send PDF maps over the internet as I believe Al Gore and his Google minions are assisting the surveillance of my email accounts too. So I will need an additional $20 for shipping and handling as I plan to wrap maps in lead foil and ship using FedEx drop boxes located outside the Bud Hut and Cannabis City!
Post by: Duffer on September 25, 2014, 12:46:44 AM
I heard that your PDF could be found on Google Street View but I lost the address
btw: have you noticed the nefarious trend of the number 14? Maybe that's the cipher for the secret code to access those Wenaha tags?
It's confusing. The Camano Island Bud Hut has not opened yet. I think its a conspiracy. Man I need a Snickers
Post by: RadSav on September 25, 2014, 01:47:58 AM
btw: have you noticed the nefarious trend of the number 14? Maybe that's the cipher for the secret code to access those Wenaha tags?
"14 is the ratio of the cyclic law 4 with the cosmic unit 10 having for result to maintain the life - 1 + 4 = 5 - and serving as a node to the double current of evolution and involution - 7 x 2 = 14". It would represent also the nature working out the life."
Gnarly stuff there Sergeant Duffy!
Not cool about the Bud Hut, man!
Totally a conspiracy, bro!
Mmmm...Snickers :drool:
Post by: Duffer on September 25, 2014, 03:19:08 AM
Post by: gun-dog on September 26, 2014, 08:04:48 PM