Post by: chris90 on September 21, 2014, 07:46:55 PM
Post by: X-Force on September 21, 2014, 08:07:32 PM
Post by: Hunterman on September 21, 2014, 08:14:31 PM
Hunterman(Tony)
Post by: Bob33 on September 21, 2014, 08:16:01 PM
Post by: Jingles on September 21, 2014, 08:30:36 PM
What's the matter the first 15 days of the month not enough for you without having any other hunters around?
Post by: chris90 on September 21, 2014, 08:43:30 PM
Are you seeing the Actual hunters camps or the outfitters base camps? I know the outfitters base camp at harts pass then horse the hunters out to their respective camps well into the wilderness. Are you sure they are all deer hunters and not bear hunters?its a matter of people hunting in closed areas not whether or not 15 days is good enough for me. I pulled my deer on the 3rd day of the month but thanks. Yes hunting camps guys in orange with rifles. Would you wear orange and have a rifle in your hand if you were in a closed area?? I have seen these people hunting along the roads up and down harts pass.
What's the matter the first 15 days of the month not enough for you without having any other hunters around?
Post by: Bob33 on September 21, 2014, 08:46:16 PM
Post by: Rodney107 on September 21, 2014, 08:59:47 PM
Post by: bobcat on September 21, 2014, 09:20:11 PM
Post by: abhold87 on September 21, 2014, 09:33:16 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on September 21, 2014, 09:45:11 PM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on September 21, 2014, 10:13:29 PM
It deff believeable that guys don't know where the actual boundaries start
Most of the western and southern Pasayten is clearly and easily topographically defined by ridges
Post by: mazama on September 22, 2014, 06:18:00 AM
Post by: boneaddict on September 22, 2014, 07:32:06 AM
Post by: RadSav on September 22, 2014, 07:43:46 AM
Post by: bobcat on September 22, 2014, 07:54:41 AM
I don't do the high hunt but i have walked into wilderness from harts pass it is about 700-800 yds to the boundary.its not the wilderness area we are talking about its the actual hunt boundaries they are different.
Why would the boundaries be different? The open area, according to the regulations, is "Pasayten." I assume that means the Pasayten Wilderness. But, maybe it means the Pasayten GMU. I always assumed the GMU boundary was the same as the wilderness boundary, but quickly glancing at the boundary description right now, it uses a lot of USFS trails. I don't know if those trails are inside or outside the wilderness boundary. :dunno:
Post by: Methow Bowman on September 22, 2014, 07:57:00 AM
I am an Avid Bow Hunter and have Hunted the Mazama area for more then 25 years and was just discussing
all this as these Modern Firearm Deer Hunters were driving out this afternoon past our cabins at the base of Harts Pass.
Yes this has gone ignored and the local bow hunters are frustrated, If enough of us stand our ground with the Game Department
I hope something will finally be done.
The only one outfitter up there is Aaron Lee and you will not see him in hunter orange at his base camp, I know it well.
The facts are that these Modern Firearm Deer hunters are way away from the Pasayten Wilderness "Hunting Unit"
There is the Government driven "Pasaytem Wilderness" and the "Pasayten Wilderness High Hunt Unit" Two different Boundary
Lines. I hope that the true honest guys have just not studied it enough and not just neglectfully Hunting closed areas to rifle season.
Fact 1, The Robinson Creek trail Head at the base of harts pass is the start of the high hunt unit after a mile and a half hike up. At that point you can hunt North East of the Trail and you are in the High Hunt Unit.
This is no where near the camps you are hearing about, But in fact many miles down to be at the base to get to the trail head.
Fact 2, The other only true entry point for any hunter to enter the "Pasayten Willderness Hunting Unit" is the trail Head over a mile above the Outfitters Base camp. From there the quickest way into the Robinson Creek Trail that is the furthest West boundary in that stretch if you take
the 410Alt trail in it is 3.2 miles in........Please check your maps and trace out your hunting unit. I can't respond to the post that says that the high hunt unit is only 1 mile from Harts Pass except to say that would be as a Pasayten wilderness boundary and not the Pasayten Wilderness Hunt Unit Boundary. Anyone that has ever truly been in the High Hunt Unit from the direction of the road these deer hunting rifle hunters are is not something they are doing. This would take all day for a in shape man just to reach the trail that is the boundary due to the terrain. This why you would use the trails not trying to make your own through one of the thickest drainages there is up there.
Fact 3, Conclusion is these hunters are miles from the High Hunt Unit where we are seeing them actually hunting. You can say anything
you want to say that this is not true but I can tell you from spending much time up there this is what is being discussed area wise.
One more Thing, Yes many of us have confronted these Hunters asking what they are hunting/doing and the response is "We are Huntin The High Hunt. I and many others have talked to them with no out come. They truly think the are in the High Hunt Unit Hunting. Well they then have truly never been in the Unit, this is very clear.
Also I took my Buck on the 4th,
Please don't make our 30 day season seem unworthy, it is our season please respect that to those who think we have no need for it.
Post by: wsmnut on September 22, 2014, 08:07:23 AM
Wsmnut
Post by: MtnMuley on September 22, 2014, 08:11:44 AM
Post by: boneaddict on September 22, 2014, 08:16:08 AM
Post by: boneaddict on September 22, 2014, 08:19:28 AM
Post by: bobcat on September 22, 2014, 08:25:25 AM
Post by: X-Force on September 22, 2014, 08:31:53 AM
Post by: bobcat on September 22, 2014, 08:37:37 AM
Methow Bowman you are incorrect to say that the Pasayten 203 is the unit boundary for the high hunt. The Pasayten wilderness is the boundary so portions of 218 are open.
I don't know which one is the correct boundary for the high hunt, but I do know in the 2014 reg's it's unclear. It says "Pasayten" and in the heading above that it says "GMU's." So, my assumption is that the boundary would be the GMU boundary and not the Pasayten wilderness boundary. But until today, I always believed the wilderness boundary was the high hunt boundary. :dunno:
Post by: WildlifeAssassin on September 22, 2014, 08:38:51 AM
Wilderness Areas on the Olympic Peninsula, Henry Jackson
Wilderness Areas and Lake Chelan Recreation Area"
GMUs have nothing to do with the high hunt. The wilderness boundaries apply.
Post by: X-Force on September 22, 2014, 08:40:55 AM
Post by: Methow Bowman on September 22, 2014, 08:47:59 AM
to run your map by the unit description.
that simple for all to see for the area in question.
ignorance is no excuse.
Post by: bobcat on September 22, 2014, 08:52:15 AM
"Alpine Lakes, Mount Baker, Glacier Peak, Pasayten, All
Wilderness Areas on the Olympic Peninsula, Henry Jackson
Wilderness Areas and Lake Chelan Recreation Area"
GMUs have nothing to do with the high hunt. The wilderness boundaries apply.
But in your opinion, is that clear in the regulations? As I previously posted, the listed areas are identified in the heading as "Game Management Units." So a guy would see that, then flip to the pages in the back, and read the description for the Pasayten GMU (203).
Nowhere does it say the wilderness boundary is the high hunt boundary.
Post by: X-Force on September 22, 2014, 08:57:25 AM
I have to admit it does seem more confusing than it should be but if the Pasayten unit was open it would be listed as 203 like every other gmu.
Post by: WildlifeAssassin on September 22, 2014, 08:57:42 AM
Wilderness Areas on the Olympic Peninsula" GMU?
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on September 22, 2014, 09:02:57 AM
Just how long have you been High buck hunting??? I haven't been in years but......."Alpine Lakes, Mount Baker, Glacier Peak, Pasayten, All
Wilderness Areas on the Olympic Peninsula, Henry Jackson
Wilderness Areas and Lake Chelan Recreation Area"
GMUs have nothing to do with the high hunt. The wilderness boundaries apply.
But in your opinion, is that clear in the regulations? As I previously posted, the listed areas are identified in the heading as "Game Management Units." So a guy would see that, then flip to the pages in the back, and read the description for the Pasayten GMU (203).
Nowhere does it say the wilderness boundary is the high hunt boundary.
Can you point me to the Mount Baker GMU? The Glacier Peak GMU? (Clark) The "All
Wilderness Areas on the Olympic Peninsula" GMU?
Post by: WildlifeAssassin on September 22, 2014, 09:05:19 AM
Post by: bobcat on September 22, 2014, 09:05:56 AM
Just how long have you been High buck hunting??? I haven't been in years but......."Alpine Lakes, Mount Baker, Glacier Peak, Pasayten, All
Wilderness Areas on the Olympic Peninsula, Henry Jackson
Wilderness Areas and Lake Chelan Recreation Area"
GMUs have nothing to do with the high hunt. The wilderness boundaries apply.
But in your opinion, is that clear in the regulations? As I previously posted, the listed areas are identified in the heading as "Game Management Units." So a guy would see that, then flip to the pages in the back, and read the description for the Pasayten GMU (203).
Nowhere does it say the wilderness boundary is the high hunt boundary.Can you point me to the Mount Baker GMU? The Glacier Peak GMU? (Clark) The "All
Wilderness Areas on the Olympic Peninsula" GMU?
Since about 1987, but that's irrelevant. All I'm saying is the regulations are unclear. If you were a new hunter in this state and you read the regulations, what would you consider to be the boundary for the Pasayten high hunt?
Post by: WildlifeAssassin on September 22, 2014, 09:09:11 AM
Post by: Methow Bowman on September 22, 2014, 09:10:41 AM
not in the pasayten. Please read your hunting u it description
I am not incorrect.
the Robinson creek trail is the border for the pasayten high hunt.
this is miles from the road hunting camps period.
Post by: WildlifeAssassin on September 22, 2014, 09:12:06 AM
Read the 218 description and says to the pasayten wilderness boundary
not in the pasayten. Please read your hunting u it description
I am not incorrect.
the Robinson creek trail is the border for the pasayten high hunt.
this is miles from the road hunting camps period.
I don't know the area you are speaking of well, I am only speaking in regards to the regulations.
Post by: bobcat on September 22, 2014, 09:14:05 AM
Here's how it reads: "Alpine Lakes, Glacier Peak, Pasayten, and Henry Jackson Wilderness Areas, and wilderness areas on the Olympic Peninsula, and Lake Chelan Recreation Area."
Post by: WildlifeAssassin on September 22, 2014, 09:23:18 AM
"Alpine Lakes, Mount Baker, Glacier Peak, Pasayten, All
Wilderness Areas on the Olympic Peninsula, Henry Jackson
Wilderness Areas and Lake Chelan Recreation Area"
BETTER
"Alpine Lakes, Glacier Peak, Henry Jackson, Mount Baker
and Pasayten Wilderness Areas, All Wilderness Areas on
the Olympic Peninsula and Lake Chelan Recreation Area"
Post by: X-Force on September 22, 2014, 09:34:42 AM
I know the camps Method Bowman is talking about and they are good distance from the wilderness area.
Post by: X-Force on September 22, 2014, 09:40:49 AM
Those camps on the road have a heck of a climb to get anywhere near hunting area.
Post by: Methow Bowman on September 22, 2014, 09:51:25 AM
that we are discussing are on Harts Pass from the top of harts pass to the "dead Horse Point" on Harts Pass. This is where the hunting is occurring that people are upset about.
they are hunting that stretch of road and hillsides.
they are not even making the hike to the ridge top that is still miles of hiking in to even hit the high hunt boundary. I am not speaking for any place else other then that.
Post by: bobcat on September 22, 2014, 09:53:51 AM
Post by: Methow Bowman on September 22, 2014, 10:00:39 AM
states the Robinson creek trail
to beyond slate peak before it's next intersection
and that is the next drainage over.
you have to go by the unit description
for the location.......
I hike the area often, it may look close on a map
until you actually hike in and do it.
Post by: WaltAlpine on September 22, 2014, 10:45:14 AM
I can't pull it up for a screen shot on my phone but if you go to wildeness.net or pick up a forestry map of the area the Pasayten wilderness bountry off of harts pass is not the Robinson creek trail. Its the ridge line down from harts pass then crosses Robinson creek.There aren't many, but a few make that climb to the ridge and hunt it every year.
Those camps on the road have a heck of a climb to get anywhere near hunting area.
I don't know anything about guys hunting the road side of the ridge. The way I read it you could hunt the ridge and the north side of the ridge an be okay.
Post by: Methow Bowman on September 22, 2014, 10:50:49 AM
Robinson creek trail in the hunt
boundary that is up the ridge
and starting up the next that is where
the Robinson trail is. The top is still along
way. It is all in the hunt description and knowing
where you are in relationship to it.
Post by: grizzlyadams on September 22, 2014, 11:33:42 AM
Harts Pass is less than a mile from the Pasayten Wilderness boundary on my maps.
Actually the wilderness boundary is less than a half mile from Harts Pass. Perfectly legal to camp at the pass and walk 1/2 mile across the boundary and hunt. If the high buck rifle hunters don't want to hike in farther to actually be successful than it seems to me that leaves more country free of hunters further in. So as a bow hunter just hike in farther and get your deer.
Post by: Methow Bowman on September 22, 2014, 12:18:44 PM
is not a half mile. If you are referring to the stretch
above dead horse point, then no such thing. You have obviously
never been on the Robinson creek trail boundary........
I am not talking the trail head or as a crow fly's. A half mile maybe
gets you to the top of the ridge. Then the trail boundary is still a ridge
over. This area is like mowing my lawn.......cannot believe
you think that in the stretch being discussed here.
you have never been on the boundary trail that is clear.......
Post by: Methow Bowman on September 22, 2014, 12:28:53 PM
took my deer on the 4th.
it's pure ethics here.
you must have been one of them.
this subject shows the ignorance of knowledge
of the area plane and simple
these guys are weekend warriors
through and through with no true knowledge.
Post by: Bob33 on September 22, 2014, 12:29:28 PM
Post by: boneaddict on September 22, 2014, 12:41:19 PM
Post by: boneaddict on September 22, 2014, 12:42:41 PM
Post by: 3nails on September 22, 2014, 12:44:45 PM
My deer has never been in question.I'm still confused as to your position on the boundaries as you keep referring to 203. As far as I can tell the "area" open to the high hunt is the "wilderness", not a GMU. Just trying to see where you are coming from a little clearer.
took my deer on the 4th.
it's pure ethics here.
you must have been one of them.
this subject shows the ignorance of knowledge
of the area plane and simple
these guys are weekend warriors
through and through with no true knowledge.
Post by: Bob33 on September 22, 2014, 12:46:38 PM
If you go to their unit map on go hunt you can see what he is talking about. Unit 203 is not defined with the wilderness boundary. There is quite a finger of wilderness that is outside of 203. Looks small on a map, but I guarantee you that is some serious country"Alpine Lakes, Mount Baker, Glacier Peak, Pasayten, All Wilderness Areas on the Olympic Peninsula, Henry Jackson Wilderness Areas and Lake Chelan Recreation Area."
Alpline Lakes, Mount Baker, and Glacier Peak are wilderness areas. None of them are names for a GMU. They are followed by "Pasayten". I believe a reasonable person would conclude that is referencing the Pasayten Wilderness, not the Pasayten GMU.
Post by: Methow Bowman on September 22, 2014, 12:47:09 PM
hunting boundaries you will see that
the Robinson creek trail is the boundary
per department of fish and wildlife's
boundary's. You are failing to make the connection.
unit 203. Then you will see what line
is there is not the hunt unit boundaries.
this is so useless..........
Post by: 3nails on September 22, 2014, 12:49:24 PM
Now read the unit description of your legalWhy are you hung up on "203"? The "wilderness" is what's open. :dunno:
hunting boundaries you will see that
the Robinson creek trail is the boundary
per department of fish and wildlife's
boundary's. You are failing to make the connection.
unit 203. Then you will see what line
is there is not the hunt unit boundaries.
this is so useless..........
Post by: boneaddict on September 22, 2014, 12:56:10 PM
Post by: bobcat on September 22, 2014, 12:56:45 PM
Now read the unit description of your legalWhy are you hung up on "203"? The "wilderness" is what's open. :dunno:
hunting boundaries you will see that
the Robinson creek trail is the boundary
per department of fish and wildlife's
boundary's. You are failing to make the connection.
unit 203. Then you will see what line
is there is not the hunt unit boundaries.
this is so useless..........
:yeah:
Didn't we all come to the conclusion in this thread that the high hunt boundary is the Pasayten wilderness boundary, which is different than the Pasayten GMU boundary?
You still may have a legitimate complaint. It sounds like people are hunting from roads, and that surely cannot be within the high hunt area.
Post by: kirkl on September 22, 2014, 12:58:44 PM
Post by: Bob33 on September 22, 2014, 01:07:19 PM
Certainly an interesting conversation with valid points. The regs list the wilderness areas under the unit category and refer you to page 100 for unit boundary discussion, however as noted Baker is not a unit name as far as I am aware, so which is it? I would assume wilderness areas. Glad I hunt somewhere else. :chuckle:Page 100 is simply a list of sources for maps, not boundary descriptions.
A reasonable person would conclude the reference is to the Pasayten Wilderness, not the Pasayten GMU. I'd give anyone 100 to 1 odds that's how enforcement interprets it.
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on September 22, 2014, 01:12:49 PM
wheres Bigtex :)
from what I read here why would he be needed. Unless they are hunting outside of the wilderness boundary they are doing nothing wrong
Post by: boneaddict on September 22, 2014, 01:15:04 PM
Interesting, I entered page 100 and it goes to that (actually page 107 :chuckle: )
Post by: bobcat on September 22, 2014, 01:17:51 PM
I wonder why they don't have the GMU 203 boundary be the same as the wilderness boundary?
Post by: boneaddict on September 22, 2014, 01:25:09 PM
Post by: kirkl on September 22, 2014, 01:33:37 PM
wheres Bigtex :)
from what I read here why would he be needed. Unless they are hunting outside of the wilderness boundary they are doing nothing wrong
Because he may actually know what boundaries are used.
Post by: Bob33 on September 22, 2014, 01:34:38 PM
Certainly not argueing with you Bob, but page 100 on the internet is the first page of the unit descriptions. I've always assumed it was the wilderness, and not the unit.Not in my 2014 regulations. :dunno:
Interesting, I entered page 100 and it goes to that (actually page 107 :chuckle: )
Post by: JimmyHoffa on September 22, 2014, 01:50:38 PM
It was very clear in the regulations up until this year, when they changed the wording. Even then, I could see people easily interpreting it either way.They'll just have to add a few more pages to the regs with maps that even a Barney watcher can follow.
I wonder why they don't have the GMU 203 boundary be the same as the wilderness boundary?
Post by: 7mag. on September 22, 2014, 02:56:32 PM
Post by: grizzlyadams on September 22, 2014, 03:44:00 PM
You got to be nuts, the trail that is the legal boundary
is not a half mile. If you are referring to the stretch
above dead horse point, then no such thing. You have obviously
never been on the Robinson creek trail boundary........
I am not talking the trail head or as a crow fly's. A half mile maybe
gets you to the top of the ridge. Then the trail boundary is still a ridge
over. This area is like mowing my lawn.......cannot believe
you think that in the stretch being discussed here.
you have never been on the boundary trail that is clear.......
Don't know what to tell ya guys. I thought we were talking about Harts Pass. Both my map from USFS along with my GPS maps and my map I got from the ranger station show the boundary in the same place. No one says you have to hike the trail to get to the boundary. Part of the boundary line is indeed 1/2-5/8 of a mile right off of Harts Pass as the crow flies. Like it or not it's there and I suggest some of you get the proper maps. The GOHUNT map is about the most inaccurate map I have ever viewed.
Myself.... I wasn't there and do not advocate just crossing the border to hunt. I prefer to be inside the wilderness 10 miles or more. You can't dispute the border though. It's there on several maps. If your map doesn't show it clearly than I suggest maybe finding a better more up to date map.
Post by: grizzlyadams on September 22, 2014, 03:48:45 PM
I can see why Methow Bowman is upset, however, I believe he may be interpreting the boundaries incorrectly (or I am). Reading the regs, I am not led to believe that the high hunt boundaries are based on GMU boundaries. I am led to believe that they are based on Wilderness boundaries. As far as that goes, I have packed into the Paseyton out of Hart's Pass, with Aaron Lee, and he told me that when we entered into the wilderness, we could begin hunting.
Absolutely correct. It is not GMU boundary's it's the wilderness boundary.
Post by: luckyman on September 22, 2014, 03:51:30 PM
That would lead me to believe they are two completely different hunts with different boundrys.
Page 100 took me to maps suppliers going by the actual page # shown at the bottom of each page.
I think two different hunts with different boundrys is whats is confusing
Post by: R2Rcoulee on September 22, 2014, 04:22:58 PM
Post by: boneaddict on September 22, 2014, 04:27:56 PM
Post by: R2Rcoulee on September 22, 2014, 04:41:41 PM
Post by: X-Force on September 22, 2014, 05:08:39 PM
Post by: Rodney107 on September 22, 2014, 05:12:15 PM
Post by: jackelope on September 22, 2014, 05:35:33 PM
Post by: MuleySniper on September 22, 2014, 06:04:10 PM
So which one of you guys who witnessed these alleged illegal hunters has contacted WDFW? I don't see the point of this thread unless hopefully one of you guys who witnessed all these illegal hunters has reported it. Posting it on huntwa is not going to help. What I've seen so far is a few guys angry that there are rifle hunters hunting during archery season. It seems those guys complaining are archery hunters. And yes, I'm a bow hunter too.
Its more fun to act like the big dog and hide behind a computer... Typical. Bet nobody contacted f&g
Post by: Halo on September 22, 2014, 06:06:09 PM
Post by: X-Force on September 22, 2014, 06:27:23 PM
So which one of you guys who witnessed these alleged illegal hunters has contacted WDFW? I don't see the point of this thread unless hopefully one of you guys who witnessed all these illegal hunters has reported it. Posting it on huntwa is not going to help. What I've seen so far is a few guys angry that there are rifle hunters hunting during archery season. It seems those guys complaining are archery hunters. And yes, I'm a bow hunter too.
I have seen the camps but only after dark. I can't attest to anyone hunting outside of the wilderness area though looking at the size of camps I would be amazed if they all trudged up that hill everyday to hunt the open area.
Post by: Methow Bowman on September 22, 2014, 07:27:06 PM
hunt being the pasayten unit it is no longer under the current Regs. All the long time hunters now what I am speaking of but yes I spoke with Olympia this afternoon, then with Ranger Mike in Winthrop who has put me through to
Warden Cal Treser.
This is nothing new to that area when the regs called out the pasayten unit it was the same way.
My brother and I were running into these guys in the Bowl across from Aaron Lees base camp 20+
years ago thinking they were in the pasayten.
This all has a long history and the wardens are aware of it but as one post said they are busy with the Vast area
and noted that the road hunting and hunting the face of the ridge has not yielded many deer for the ones that don't hunt the back side because of the climb they have.
If you were there you would have seen them scattered alone the face like I did as did many others,
I was helping a buddy pack out a Bow Buck from 99 Basin and noted many.
They are weekend warriors and I know don't represent all the hard hunting guys out there.
After making my calls I was alerted to others I guess this weekend even.
O well Happy Hunting
Post by: Halo on September 22, 2014, 07:54:56 PM
Post by: grizzlyadams on September 22, 2014, 08:45:58 PM
I wonder if this year was more crowded than normal (hard to believe) because of the fires up the Chewack.
I hike in for the high hunt every year. This year I was in Glacier Peak Wilderness. I went in just as far as the Icicle Creek outfitter guys and even farther on foot. Although I didn't see any other hunters that actually went in that far on foot like I did, I saw way more activity than I usually do closer to the boundary's. Seemed like all of the heavy traffic was right near the wilderness boundary. Also a lot more people using the outfitters for drop camps this year. Many of the people I spoke with said it was due to the fires.
Post by: mazama on September 22, 2014, 09:02:13 PM
Post by: chris90 on September 22, 2014, 09:12:42 PM
Post by: Methow Bowman on September 22, 2014, 09:19:53 PM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on September 22, 2014, 09:31:00 PM
Definitely agree with what is being said about the boundaries but this has to do with the people hunting the lower half of harts pass that are definitely not hiking straight up the mountain with the cliffs at the top just to get to the open wilderness area. These are the problem people as has been stated before. I would almost guarantee that less than one percent of these lower camps that have hunters hiking out of them will actually make it to the boundary. If you have been up harts before you have seen the cliffs over the tops of these massive hill sides that are between the camps and the open areas and you will realize they are not making that trek up and down everyday. Just my personal opinion from what I have seen up there.
Maybe their driving up towards Slate Peak and the PCT, and are only camping down low
Post by: jackelope on September 22, 2014, 09:42:42 PM
Definitely agree with what is being said about the boundaries but this has to do with the people hunting the lower half of harts pass that are definitely not hiking straight up the mountain with the cliffs at the top just to get to the open wilderness area. These are the problem people as has been stated before. I would almost guarantee that less than one percent of these lower camps that have hunters hiking out of them will actually make it to the boundary. If you have been up harts before you have seen the cliffs over the tops of these massive hill sides that are between the camps and the open areas and you will realize they are not making that trek up and down everyday. Just my personal opinion from what I have seen up there.
Did you call wdfw or a warden and report it?
Why not?
Post by: Bob33 on September 22, 2014, 09:56:19 PM
Post by: boneaddict on September 23, 2014, 05:18:02 AM
Post by: grundy53 on September 23, 2014, 05:26:02 AM
sent from my typewriter
Post by: boneaddict on September 23, 2014, 05:30:26 AM
Post by: PA BEN on September 23, 2014, 06:37:20 AM
Are you seeing the Actual hunters camps or the outfitters base camps? I know the outfitters base camp at harts pass then horse the hunters out to their respective camps well into the wilderness. Are you sure they are all deer hunters and not bear hunters?Guys like you keep the division going between the hunter groups. Instead of bashing bow hunters why don't you look and see if the game laws are being broken. Unless you are saying it's ok for gun hunters to break game laws because they don't have enough time to hunt. :bdid:
What's the matter the first 15 days of the month not enough for you without having any other hunters around?
Post by: chris90 on September 23, 2014, 07:53:27 AM
exactly! :yeah: that's what this is all about.Are you seeing the Actual hunters camps or the outfitters base camps? I know the outfitters base camp at harts pass then horse the hunters out to their respective camps well into the wilderness. Are you sure they are all deer hunters and not bear hunters?Guys like you keep the division going between the hunter groups. Instead of bashing bow hunters why don't you look and see if the game laws are being broken. Unless you are saying it's ok for gun hunters to break game laws because they don't have enough time to hunt. :bdid:
What's the matter the first 15 days of the month not enough for you without having any other hunters around?
Post by: chris90 on September 23, 2014, 08:02:58 AM
Post by: bobcat on September 23, 2014, 10:37:14 AM
Post by: Bob33 on September 23, 2014, 10:58:39 AM
From how I understand it none of these hunters have done a thing wrong until they actually shoot at or kill a deer outside of the wilderness area?In this case, that could be true. The hunter can claim he is hunting bears, which is legal. It would be difficult to prove someone is hunting deer rather than bears without a shot being fired.
Post by: bobcat on September 23, 2014, 11:02:11 AM
From how I understand it none of these hunters have done a thing wrong until they actually shoot at or kill a deer outside of the wilderness area?In this case, that could be true. The hunter can claim he is hunting bears, which is legal. It would be difficult to prove someone is hunting deer rather than bears without a shot being fired.
That's true, but if contacted by a warden, and they admitted they were deer hunting, case closed.
Post by: chris90 on September 23, 2014, 12:23:09 PM
Post by: Bob33 on September 23, 2014, 12:29:40 PM
They would certainly deserve it, both for hunting illegally and being stupid enough to admit it.From how I understand it none of these hunters have done a thing wrong until they actually shoot at or kill a deer outside of the wilderness area?In this case, that could be true. The hunter can claim he is hunting bears, which is legal. It would be difficult to prove someone is hunting deer rather than bears without a shot being fired.
That's true, but if contacted by a warden, and they admitted they were deer hunting, case closed.
Post by: bobcat on September 23, 2014, 12:39:28 PM
They would certainly deserve it, both for hunting illegally and being stupid enough to admit it.From how I understand it none of these hunters have done a thing wrong until they actually shoot at or kill a deer outside of the wilderness area?In this case, that could be true. The hunter can claim he is hunting bears, which is legal. It would be difficult to prove someone is hunting deer rather than bears without a shot being fired.
That's true, but if contacted by a warden, and they admitted they were deer hunting, case closed.
Well, apparently all these people simply don't know where they are. They think they're in an area open for deer hunting but they are actually hunting well outside the boundary. So why would they not be honest and say they are hunting for deer? :dunno:
Post by: Bob33 on September 23, 2014, 12:45:35 PM
You're probaly right. I guess I don't have much sympathy for hunters that don't know where the boundaries are, or what is open.They would certainly deserve it, both for hunting illegally and being stupid enough to admit it.From how I understand it none of these hunters have done a thing wrong until they actually shoot at or kill a deer outside of the wilderness area?In this case, that could be true. The hunter can claim he is hunting bears, which is legal. It would be difficult to prove someone is hunting deer rather than bears without a shot being fired.
That's true, but if contacted by a warden, and they admitted they were deer hunting, case closed.
Well, apparently all these people simply don't know where they are. They think they're in an area open for deer hunting but they are actually hunting well outside the boundary. So why would they not be honest and say they are hunting for deer? :dunno:
Post by: bobcat on September 23, 2014, 12:52:36 PM
Or they simply have no clue where the boundary is.
Post by: bobcat on September 23, 2014, 01:12:04 PM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on September 23, 2014, 01:12:24 PM
I really don't know. Maybe they knowingly hunt close to the boundary, thinking they can play dumb if questioned. Or, as you said, claim to be hunting something else that is open.
Or they simply have no clue where the boundary is.
Here's a photo from the boundary in that area. Sunlit in non-wilderness, shaded is Wildeness. Pretty clear cut
Post by: snowpack on September 23, 2014, 01:15:45 PM
So it would be okay for me to go elk hunting with a rifle today, as long as my hunt is not successful?yup. called scouting. The gun is for yotes/cats/bears.
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 23, 2014, 01:17:36 PM
Contact the local WDFW officer. With that number of violators he should take an interest.
Yes, and tell him that they're harvesting geoducks, too!
Post by: bobcat on September 23, 2014, 01:30:13 PM
Post by: 3nails on September 23, 2014, 03:17:06 PM
Post by: bassquatch on September 23, 2014, 04:04:54 PM
Post by: Methow Bowman on September 23, 2014, 04:39:35 PM
Finding out after my calls yesterday that there were already calls made this weekend weekend.........
Yes I spoke with Olympia this afternoon, then with Ranger Mike in Winthrop who has put me through to
Warden Cal Treser.
This is nothing new to that area when the regs called out the pasayten unit it was the same way.
My brother and I were running into these guys in the Bowl across from Aaron Lees base camp 20+
years ago thinking they were in the pasayten.
This all has a long history and the wardens are aware of it but as one post said they are busy with the Vast area
and noted that the road hunting and hunting the face of the ridge has not yielded many deer for the ones that don't hunt the back side because of the climb they have.
Happy Hunting
Post by: boneaddict on September 24, 2014, 07:25:10 AM
Contact the local WDFW officer. With that number of violators he should take an interest.
Yes, and tell him that they're harvesting geoducks, too!
The irony of your statement is I have found fossilized clams in the area within thephoto that knocker has posted :chuckle:
Post by: Methow Bowman on September 24, 2014, 10:21:06 AM
I took my buck on the 4th.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on September 24, 2014, 10:31:43 AM
It sounds like a couple people didn't catch that Phone calls etc. are being made and
Finding out after my calls yesterday that there were already calls made this weekend weekend.........
Yes I spoke with Olympia this afternoon, then with Ranger Mike in Winthrop who has put me through to
Warden Cal Treser.
This is nothing new to that area when the regs called out the pasayten unit it was the same way.
My brother and I were running into these guys in the Bowl across from Aaron Lees base camp 20+
years ago thinking they were in the pasayten.
This all has a long history and the wardens are aware of it but as one post said they are busy with the Vast area
and noted that the road hunting and hunting the face of the ridge has not yielded many deer for the ones that don't hunt the back side because of the climb they have.
Happy Hunting
Really not getting the point you are making? You just like the guy that started this thread seem to think because you are bow hunting you should not see other hunters? Might be best for the sport if you just left the hills after a few weeks. Doesn't do any of us much good when the lib hikers have pics and are complaining about arrows stuck in the animals running around.
He doesn't like hunters hunting out of their legal area.
It's not complicated and it's the law
Post by: Methow Bowman on September 24, 2014, 10:43:04 AM
Post by: chris90 on September 24, 2014, 12:21:16 PM
wow I can't say I have ever stuck an animal in the backside and just walked away cause of no blood. Every animal I have ever shot with a bow have blown clean through both lungs and the animal doesn't make it out of sight. You want to rip on bow hunters and think they are the only ones who could do wrong? Because clearly you could never make a bad shot with a rifle? Can't believe your ignorance. What about all the rifle guys we all hear about taking 10 600 yard shots just trying to hit an animal on the next ridge? You don't think people like that can wound an animal? Think about it! Don't just rip on one group and think you do no wrong! I hear more people say they have wounded and lost animals with a rifle than I hear bow hunters complain about the same. Just a fact. Either way any group can make a mistake so don't single one or the other out from the rest.It sounds like a couple people didn't catch that Phone calls etc. are being made and
Finding out after my calls yesterday that there were already calls made this weekend weekend.........
Yes I spoke with Olympia this afternoon, then with Ranger Mike in Winthrop who has put me through to
Warden Cal Treser.
This is nothing new to that area when the regs called out the pasayten unit it was the same way.
My brother and I were running into these guys in the Bowl across from Aaron Lees base camp 20+
years ago thinking they were in the pasayten.
This all has a long history and the wardens are aware of it but as one post said they are busy with the Vast area
and noted that the road hunting and hunting the face of the ridge has not yielded many deer for the ones that don't hunt the back side because of the climb they have.
Happy Hunting
Really not getting the point you are making? You just like the guy that started this thread seem to think because you are bow hunting you should not see other hunters? Might be best for the sport if you just left the hills after a few weeks. Doesn't do any of us much good when the lib hikers have pics and are complaining about arrows stuck in the animals running around.
No blood, no problem for you type..... You have more arrows and you have no problem sticking them in the hind end of more animals. End result all hunters get a bad name.......Thanks for that.
Post by: boneaddict on September 24, 2014, 01:24:15 PM
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