Post by: pianoman9701 on October 02, 2014, 10:12:00 AM
http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2014/oct/01/pend-oreille-county-wolfs-be-captured-put-zoo/ (http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2014/oct/01/pend-oreille-county-wolfs-be-captured-put-zoo/)
Post by: mulehunter on October 02, 2014, 10:16:53 AM
Post by: Special T on October 02, 2014, 10:22:40 AM
Post by: KFhunter on October 02, 2014, 10:25:21 AM
Post by: idahohuntr on October 02, 2014, 10:30:11 AM
They'll parade her around as a propaganda piece to teach all our children to not hate the wolves, oh and donate to our cause!Fair enough...maybe the Cattlemen's should ask wdfw to donate the next wolf capture to them :dunno: :chuckle:
Post by: KFhunter on October 02, 2014, 10:34:16 AM
Quote
Bill McCorkle Kit Carson • 2 hours ago
Nate Pamplin is not telling the truth, The Wolf Advisory group after discussing all the different reasons this wolf should be put down, called for a hard vote of hands, Nate Pamplin said "I don't want to do that, I'm not going to do that, I'll write it up differently" going against his own advisory group, and doing what ever they want to anyway. They also have in their "wolf facts" out & out lies, saying ungulate popultions in Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming are not affected by wolves which is clearly not the case, So why would you trust anything Wash. F&G has to say?
Sounds like the guy was there.
Might be worth bringing up at the Oct 7 wolf meeting.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on October 02, 2014, 11:17:59 AM
I think wolf haven needs more breeding stock for THIER release program! :o:yeah: She'll end up pregnant and then the 'kennel was left open' or 'they dug out in the only breach in the fence'; and then the Mt St Helens pack will appear. Or something like that.
Post by: jackelope on October 03, 2014, 11:51:23 AM
Got an email, I'll share the meat and potatoes part of it....
Quote
The Commission voted 7 - 1 to allow the Ruby Creek female to be captured. This sets a very dangerous precedent. Capturing and putting problem wolves in captivity was not an option in the Wolf Recovery Plan. Now the anti's will use this as an alternative to lethal take on future problem wolves.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 03, 2014, 02:45:02 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 03, 2014, 03:00:39 PM
Post by: Jingles on October 03, 2014, 03:06:48 PM
Post by: HornHoarder on October 03, 2014, 03:08:14 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 03, 2014, 03:13:59 PM
I wonder if the wolves they put into WH will be monitored or at least accounted for by the WDFW over time.
In addition, shouldn't they be neutered? If they're being introduced into an environment that has not only wolves, but wolf hybrids, they shouldn't be allowed to breed.
Post by: idahohuntr on October 03, 2014, 04:13:50 PM
Given the feedback we received and considering the unique situation, we have decided to capture this wolf and place her into captivity. We have consulted with the staff at Wolf Haven International (in Tenino, Wash.), which has generously offered to accept her into captivity.
We fully understand that we will not be able to place all problem wolves into captivity, because there are simply not enough facilities. Also, most wild born wolves would not transition well into life in captivity. However, given the very rare behavior this individual is exhibiting, she is likely a good candidate.
Later this week, field staff will attempt to capture this female wolf. It will remain property of the state, but permitted to be held by Wolf Haven. The Department and Wolf Haven will develop a ‘quality of life’ plan. If it is determined the animal will not be able to acclimate to life in captivity, it will be humanely euthanized.
So the wolf is still the state's property...not wolf havens to do with as they please. I agree with their assessment that even if greenies want this to be a non-lethal alternative it is simply not practical in most cases...this is a unique case. That being said, I would still agree the wolf should be euthanized...not held in captivity. Perhaps they are working to build trust with the greenie groups for future wolf management issues...maybe this is a good strategic move for future delisting efforts :dunno:
Post by: JimmyHoffa on October 03, 2014, 04:18:16 PM
Post by: gaddy on October 03, 2014, 04:21:23 PM
Post by: wolfbait on October 03, 2014, 04:49:31 PM
The rare behavior she's exhibiting, makes her a good candidate for captivity. Hmmm... maybe she CAME from captivity.. :peep: Wolfbait?
If you look at the fake mexican gray wolves that the USFWS bred up and then turned loose in the middle of cattle country and peoples back yards, yep this wolf could have come from one of their breeding facilities, after all there are 50 of them throughout the USA, could have even been one of wolf havens wolves that wasn't working out in the wild too well.
Three years ago we saw three wolves below the Mocassin lk ranch, this was late fall after the field had been cut. One of the wolves was sitting about a hundred yards off the county road. I thought what the heck I will see how close I could get to it, so I climbed through the fence and started walking towards it, it didn't run off it just started circling me, I got within about 50 yds, and thats as close as I got. The wolf would move back about the same amount I would move in, and it would circle me and when I would stop it would sit down and watch me. Not what I would call a scared or wild wolf.
Just in the Methow alone there have been several wolf/dog conflicts many of them never hit mainstream media or any media at all unless someone finds out about it and puts it on the net. I wonder why this wolf is so special?
Post by: YellowDog on October 04, 2014, 07:47:25 AM
Post by: AspenBud on October 04, 2014, 08:21:18 AM
Post by: wolfbait on October 04, 2014, 09:36:32 AM
The problem with any discussion about Wolf Haven is it can't be taken too seriously. They have received threats from almost day one and there have been many attempted break ins. It's yet another reason why no one takes the wolf management crowd seriously, people were yelling about wolves before wolves were turned loose in Yellowstone. People have accused them of releasing wolves for a loooooooooooooong time. When you cry wolf for so long it becomes a very steep climb when the problem becomes real.
You don't suppose wolf haven has been guilty all these years do you A-bud. Look at the USFWS they lied for years and they were called liars, and proven to be liars, look at WDFW and wolf predation, they have been called liars, and proven to be liars.
Look at the history of the wolf introduction so far and ask your self who have been the liars, the pro-wolf side or those who did not want the Canadian wolves in the first place, or want wolf control now?
Post by: buckfvr on October 04, 2014, 10:26:41 AM
Post by: KFhunter on October 05, 2014, 12:39:23 PM
From stevens co cattlemens FB page:
Quote
I just got back from the Washington State “ Wolf Advisory Group” meeting, there seemed to be a good mix of people representing many sides of the wolf issue. There were around 15 people in the group and around 25 observers who were not allowed to ask questions until the very end. I learned many things about wolves and how our F&G works. This meeting was mainly about wolf predation on livestock and how to prevent it.
I was running late and didn’t get there in time for the introductions so I didn’t get everybody’s names.
The first part was about reducing livestock conflicts by Elizabeth Bradly Montana F&G, I learned the best way to address wolves that kill livestock is to kill the entire pack, not cherry pick out a couple at a time, they have all learned to kill livestock and will not stop for long. We will see if Wash F&G listens to this advice or not.
then the second topic was going over the timeline and everything about the Huckleberry pack killings. The telemetry map of this pack movements were interesting as they move back and forth across the Indian reservation boundary.
One of the members and people there, was the sheep herder that just had a bunch of his sheep killed this summer by the huckleberry pack. Of coarse all the wolf lovers were asking silly questions, still trying to cast doubt about if it was really wolves. The Herder explained how he felt that the wolves were watching the dogs and himself, and were striking in the morning, in the daylight, where he and the dogs weren’t. They didn’t kill at night.
Someone who should be congratulated for being the voice of common sense and trying to stand up for livestock producers as well as sportsmen, is Jack Fields, Washington Cattlemen’s Association, as he stood up for everyone and did his best to make himself heard and not be bullied, like many were and not bend to F&G’s agenda. If there is a voice of reason and no BS in this group it is Jack Fields.
I learned that Wash. F&G is not good at counting wolves and they freely admit it. In the 2012 census they say out of 51 collared wolves our numbers only increased by 1, where everywhere else in the world numbers increase by roughly 36% from what I’ve been able to research.
One of the topics was the Ruby Creek pack, a pack that was 2 female wolves that were running together and became habituated to humans and were coming in and playing with dogs, one bred with a domestic dog, they captured it and spayed it and released it, not long after it was hit by a car and killed.
The other wolf is now living in the town of Ione. It is seen playing with dogs, being chased by livestock, it has been shot at and hit multiple times with rubber bullets and it goes just out of range and stops, sits down and waits to come back, this is right from F&G. The county council has requested that the wolf be removed soon before it gets into trouble or a citizen shoots it to protect their property and gets into trouble for it.
We have paid nearly $9,000 in the last 2 weeks to pay someone to shoot it with rubber bullets every morning and try and run it out of town and its not leaving.
Everyone agreed it was a problem that needed to be addressed and quickly.
Everyone agreed that this wolf has no value for the wolf program and in fact is potentially a disaster due to its lack of fear and willingness to breed with domestic dogs.
Everyone agreed that because of those and other factors Trans relocation was not an option, it was brought up by Jack Fields that it is in the mission or guidelines that “problem” wolves would not be re-located.
It was brought up and suggested that Wolf Haven take her, and their rep said they would consider it, but it was not their policy as wild wolves do not adapt well to captivity and that the chances were far greater that they would end up euthanizing it anyway. This is the save the wolves person saying this.
So, Nate Pamplin, Wash F&G jumps up and says, “So I’m going to write it up that the MAJORITY of the group was NOT in favor of killing the wolf”. Well 4-5 people raise their hands and say that’s not true, and several people call for a hard vote of hands to see where everybody stands! Nate says” no I don’t want to do that! I’m not going to do that! I’m going to write it up different!” He changed the subject and never did say how he was going to portray how the group felt about the subject, we’ll see!
Clearly the majority of the people, even the wolf lovers, were in favor of putting this wolf down and quickly.
The Wolf haven gal did say earlier that it would look bad for F&G to kill another wolf after just killing one of the sheep killers. I don’t understand why popular opinion of city people has anything to do with wildlife management, I guarantee you that the same people who don’t want you to kill a wolf would set a mouse or roach trap in their house if they were infested with them. There is no difference!
It was asked by Jack Fields does this group hold any real power and will their Decisions be abided by or are they just there to kick the can around and talk for 8 hours for no good reason, Nate said this is an Advisory group and their decisions would be considered.
This is my take on the meeting.
Bill McCorkl
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on October 05, 2014, 12:45:49 PM
Post by: KFhunter on October 05, 2014, 12:45:55 PM
Post by: wolfbait on October 05, 2014, 12:49:41 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on October 05, 2014, 12:55:27 PM
Post by: wolfbait on October 05, 2014, 05:11:01 PM
I think its time to start a new group ...The Kill every wolf you can group ... :dunno:
There's already those kind of groups in WA, no one hears about them though, as it should be. :bfg:
Post by: timberfaller on October 06, 2014, 11:49:29 AM
My guess is people making this kind of statement are one of two things, a frequenter of the local Pot stores on the wet side or relying on their limited book learning.
Definitely not a student of wild things!!
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on October 06, 2014, 10:27:11 PM
Strange you have never produced a single picture of a wolf despite all these close encounters...The rare behavior she's exhibiting, makes her a good candidate for captivity. Hmmm... maybe she CAME from captivity.. :peep: Wolfbait?
If you look at the fake mexican gray wolves that the USFWS bred up and then turned loose in the middle of cattle country and peoples back yards, yep this wolf could have come from one of their breeding facilities, after all there are 50 of them throughout the USA, could have even been one of wolf havens wolves that wasn't working out in the wild too well.
Three years ago we saw three wolves below the Mocassin lk ranch, this was late fall after the field had been cut. One of the wolves was sitting about a hundred yards off the county road. I thought what the heck I will see how close I could get to it, so I climbed through the fence and started walking towards it, it didn't run off it just started circling me, I got within about 50 yds, and thats as close as I got. The wolf would move back about the same amount I would move in, and it would circle me and when I would stop it would sit down and watch me. Not what I would call a scared or wild wolf.
Just in the Methow alone there have been several wolf/dog conflicts many of them never hit mainstream media or any media at all unless someone finds out about it and puts it on the net. I wonder why this wolf is so special?
The ruby wolf needed to go. She is totally habituated and hanging out in yards... I would vote for lethal removal, but only because its the pragmatic option. I don't care if wolf haven takes her as long as we don't pay for it.
Post by: KFhunter on October 07, 2014, 08:10:04 AM
Post by: bearpaw on October 07, 2014, 08:26:49 AM
If she were spayed then I wouldn't care either, I've seen no mention of having her spayed mentioned anywhere :dunno:
If there isn't, I think there should be accountability of all captive wolves and any pups born at wolf haven or any other facility. I know that elk breeders are required to keep exact records and those records are inspected by the state.
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 07, 2014, 08:46:07 AM
Post by: huntnphool on October 07, 2014, 08:57:56 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 07, 2014, 09:20:33 AM
This was never a option to be voted on in the "proposal" so why is it a option now? Making up their own rules as they go along now?
And I believe that was pointed out when the WDFW announced this. It seems that Nate Pamplin went "rogue" on this decision to "donate" the wolf to WH. He needs to be fired anyway. This'd be a good place to start.
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 08, 2014, 07:55:38 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 08, 2014, 07:57:18 PM
"Dear Mr. Pamplin and Members of the Wildlife Commission,
As you most likely know, I'm a Master Hunter, a member of several conservation groups, and a member of an active member online forum which has in excess of 16,000 members. I'd like to know a few things about the recent transfer of a captured problem female wild wolf to Wolf Haven. 1. Was or will this wolf be spayed to avoid breeding with other species or hybrids? 2. Was DNA profiling done on this wolf for use in possible future examinations or investigations? 3. Is there a program set up to monitor the life of this wolf at the facility to ensure it doesn't accidentally escape and become a problem in another part of the state?
There are many people who don't understand this transfer. The appearance of a relationship between the WDFW and and activist pro-wolf organization is definitely raising some eyebrows in the hunting and farming/ranching communities. In addition, as far as I can tell, no such transfer is outlined in the Wolf Plan and questions are being raised as to whether this transfer was 4. Even allowed under the program, 5. the decision of one person, or that of a group of people, and 6. who that person or people are. I'd like to get answers to all of these questions in a timely manner please. Feel free to contact me at your earliest convenience. Thank you for your consideration of my request. "
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 10, 2014, 03:12:04 PM
"Mr. Wallace:
I wanted to acknowledge that I received your email.
As of this afternoon, the Ruby Creek female wolf has not been captured. Upon capture, there are plans to have her 'fixed' in a manner that she will not be able to breed.
I'll provide more details after I connect with our carnivore staff lead; and will email a more complete response to you early next week.
Have a good weekend-
Nate Pamplin, Assistant Director
Wildlife Program
WDFW
Post by: gaddy on October 10, 2014, 04:03:59 PM
Post by: 4fletch on October 10, 2014, 08:27:59 PM
If these wolves aren't killed, then they need to be spayed. Pamplin should also be neutered.since we are most likely paying for all this we should have a say and I say take her to a vet and have her teeth removed
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 14, 2014, 05:53:58 AM
"Mr. Wallace:
I am writing in response to your questions dated October 8, 2014 about the problem wolf from the Ruby Creek pack that the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (Department) is currently trying to capture for permanent placement at Wolf Haven International (WHI).
The adult female wolf has been routinely living near people, domestic dogs, and livestock. The wolf has been regularly harassed by WDFW field staff with rubber bullets and other aversive tactics, but continues to display habituated behaviors. We are concerned that she will breed with a domestic dog, produce wolf-dog hybrids in the wild, and become increasingly associated with humans if no action is taken.
The Wolf Conservation and Management Plan does not address placing habituated wolves in to captivity, largely because we understood that options for permanent placement would not be available and therefore not a long-term solution. However, this is a rare situation; WHI has generously offered to take this individual into their care.
The decision to place the wolf in captivity was made after discussions with WDFW's Wolf Advisory Group of citizens, the Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission, and the Pend Oreille County Commission. We discussed the pros and cons of possible actions, including translocation, euthanasia, or placement in captivity. We believe the decision to place this animal in captivity is consistent with the intent of the plan for minimizing conflict as well as working with stakeholders to implement conflict resolutions. Ultimately, the decision to place this animal at WHI was made by the Director.
I understand that some people may question the Department's decision to place this wolf in captivity. The Department fully recognizes that there are a variety of concerns associated with moving a wolf into captivity-ranging from some peoples' concern of a wild wolf living in captivity, to the precedent and expectation that the Department will attempt to move all problem wolves into captivity. We know that placing problems wolves in captivity will not be a reoccurring option looking ahead, but in this rare case we believe permanent placement in captivity is a good match given the animals' habituation to humans.
If the wolf is captured, it will be altered (equivalent to hysterectomy) to ensure no future breeding. As a routine part of our wolf captures, DNA has also been collected from this wolf during a previous capture in 2013 for possible use in future analyses. WHI is permitted by American Sanctuary Association and U.S. Department of Agriculture for possessing captive wildlife, with inspections/review of the facility, protocols, and animal security.
If the wolf does not adapt well to life in captivity, based upon criteria developed by the WDFW and WHI, it will be euthanized.
Thank you for your interest and continued engagement on wildlife issues in Washington.
Sincerely,
Nate Pamplin, Assistant Director
Wildlife Program
WDFW"
Post by: PolarBear on October 14, 2014, 09:32:35 AM