Post by: PA BEN on October 03, 2014, 05:49:27 AM
WDFW to Hold Meeting Colville
E-mail Print PDF
The public will have an opportunity to discuss wolf management activities in northeast portion of the state with Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) leaders during a meeting Tuesday, Oct. 7, in Colville.
The meeting will take place from 6 to 9 p.m. in the Colville Ag Trade Center at the Northeast Washington Fairgrounds, 317 West Astor Ave.
WDFW officials will provide information on recent wolf attacks on livestock in the region, and on the packs involved in those incidents – the Huckleberry pack in Stevens County and the Profanity Peak pack in Ferry County.
Meeting participants will be able to share their views on wolf management and recovery and to ask questions of WDFW Director Phil Anderson, Eastern Regional Director Steve Pozzanghera, and other department staff.
WDFW actions this summer to protect sheep from the Huckleberry pack are described in a question-and-answer document on the department's website at http://www.wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/huckleberry_faq.html. (http://www.wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/huckleberry_faq.html.)
More recently, WDFW officials confirmed that wolves were responsible for killing a cow and calf at a cattle grazing site in Ferry County, within the range of the newly discovered Profanity Peak pack. WDFW wildlife conflict specialists continue to monitor that situation.
In 2011, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service removed gray wolves from the federal list of endangered species in the eastern third of the state, but the species is still protected under Washington state law. The state Wolf Conservation and Management Plan and state laws set the parameters for responding to wolf predation on livestock.
The department has also established a Wolf Advisory Group that provides input to the department on wolf plan implementation. More information on that group is available on WDFW's website at http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/advisory/wag/. (http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/advisory/wag/.)
-Submitted by WDFW
Post by: Special T on October 03, 2014, 07:42:53 AM
I bet they have more than one "Armed Guard" at this meeting.
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 03, 2014, 07:45:30 AM
Post by: mfswallace on October 03, 2014, 08:54:40 AM
Post by: PA BEN on October 03, 2014, 09:37:57 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 03, 2014, 09:42:48 AM
Post by: Special T on October 03, 2014, 09:45:51 AM
question 3 How is working with Wolf Haven keeping the department "impartial" on this issue?
Post by: idahohuntr on October 03, 2014, 09:54:10 AM
On the "impartail" stuff...I think they probably don't want money or help from any really biased group like the cattlemens or Cascadia Wildlands or whoever on the SCIENTIFIC/DATA collection side of things :dunno:
When it comes to interacting with the public and things like taking money for wolf poaching reward, donating this wolf, or working with cattle ranchers to protect livestock and kill wolves...I think each side could say "why are you playing nice with the enemy?". In those instances I don't see them necessarily being "impartial". :twocents:
Post by: Special T on October 03, 2014, 11:15:16 AM
Do i need to remind everyone that they took $ From CNW for a poatching reward and that was OK.
Post by: Special T on October 03, 2014, 11:17:23 AM
I'm not sure what the rationale behind donating a live wolf is/was...seems like a slippery slope. Be curious to hear their justification.
On the "impartail" stuff...I think they probably don't want money or help from any really biased group like the cattlemens or Cascadia Wildlands or whoever on the SCIENTIFIC/DATA collection side of things :dunno:
When it comes to interacting with the public and things like taking money for wolf poaching reward, donating this wolf, or working with cattle ranchers to protect livestock and kill wolves...I think each side could say "why are you playing nice with the enemy?". In those instances I don't see them necessarily being "impartial". :twocents:
I point this out because IF they took $ and resources from both sides THAT would be impartial but since they ONLY take it from the other side with the explanation that it would make them look Impartial is BS
Post by: idahohuntr on October 03, 2014, 02:02:45 PM
I stand by what I said regarding accepting money/help on the scientific aspects. If the Cattlemen's want to donate money to increase the wolf poaching reward WDFW would accept it.I'm not sure what the rationale behind donating a live wolf is/was...seems like a slippery slope. Be curious to hear their justification.
On the "impartail" stuff...I think they probably don't want money or help from any really biased group like the cattlemens or Cascadia Wildlands or whoever on the SCIENTIFIC/DATA collection side of things :dunno:
When it comes to interacting with the public and things like taking money for wolf poaching reward, donating this wolf, or working with cattle ranchers to protect livestock and kill wolves...I think each side could say "why are you playing nice with the enemy?". In those instances I don't see them necessarily being "impartial". :twocents:
I point this out because IF they took $ and resources from both sides THAT would be impartial but since they ONLY take it from the other side with the explanation that it would make them look Impartial is BS
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 03, 2014, 02:43:00 PM
He also told me someone, blaming the greenie, tree huggers, have shot and killed 9 cows, yes 9 moo cows with a gun......
This is straight from the bosses mouth, today, 2 hours ago.
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 03, 2014, 03:01:49 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 03, 2014, 03:14:41 PM
Post by: wolfbait on October 03, 2014, 03:20:46 PM
I just talked to one of BIG cattlemen up near the Wedge/Profanity areas that has their cattle there. He told me that the Cattlemans Association is pretty much giving the WDFW an ultimatum to either kill the wolves or they will hire their own trapper and have him/her come in and kill the wolves.
He also told me someone, blaming the greenie, tree huggers, have shot and killed 9 cows, yes 9 moo cows with a gun......
This is straight from the bosses mouth, today, 2 hours ago.
I think thats probably their best plan so far, trying to play WDFW's game only cost ranchers more $$$ with no action by WDFW, as we have already seen. I think WDFW could be sued for their wishy-washy wolf predation management.
Post by: Special T on October 03, 2014, 03:23:16 PM
:tinfoil:
Let me go out on a limb and say... Perhaps the USFS and the WDFW has NOT released or transported any wolves. Is is possible that some one like Wolfhaven has? Yes I know its "illegal"... You COULD play both sides of the fence on this one. You could say your were transporting Hybrids to your buddies place/farm if questioned and they got away while you let them out to go the the bathroom.... YET if the DNA was strongly wolf and very little huskie said Hybrid could bring the wolf numbers up a bunch with out much detection.... Perhaps that is why we have been told they are all hybrids them, but when we offer to shoot them they say "DONT DO THAT IT COULD BE A WOLF!"... I know its just black helecopter talk but it SEEMS to be just as reasonable explanation as the nonsence we hear from the department and how we see them act.
Post by: idahohuntr on October 03, 2014, 04:03:58 PM
I just talked to one of BIG cattlemen up near the Wedge/Profanity areas that has their cattle there. He told me that the Cattlemans Association is pretty much giving the WDFW an ultimatum to either kill the wolves or they will hire their own trapper and have him/her come in and kill the wolves.Are they talking about the 3 other wolves of the 4 that were authorized to be killed?
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 03, 2014, 05:57:45 PM
I just talked to one of BIG cattlemen up near the Wedge/Profanity areas that has their cattle there. He told me that the Cattlemans Association is pretty much giving the WDFW an ultimatum to either kill the wolves or they will hire their own trapper and have him/her come in and kill the wolves.
He also told me someone, blaming the greenie, tree huggers, have shot and killed 9 cows, yes 9 moo cows with a gun......
This is straight from the bosses mouth, today, 2 hours ago.
That's the idea I got from our conservation today.
I think thats probably their best plan so far, trying to play WDFW's game only cost ranchers more $$$ with no action by WDFW, as we have already seen. I think WDFW could be sued for their wishy-washy wolf predation management.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 03, 2014, 06:00:44 PM
I just talked to one of BIG cattlemen up near the Wedge/Profanity areas that has their cattle there. He told me that the Cattlemans Association is pretty much giving the WDFW an ultimatum to either kill the wolves or they will hire their own trapper and have him/her come in and kill the wolves.Are they talking about the 3 other wolves of the 4 that were authorized to be killed?
There are 5 in this pack, so I don't know what you mean.
Post by: idahohuntr on October 03, 2014, 06:12:28 PM
The state originally authorized the lethal removal of 4 wolves, of which 1 was killed. Efforts then ceased to kill the remaining 3...what I was asking was if those were the wolves for which the "ultimatum" was issued...or if this is just a different group of wolves, or maybe wolves in general :dunno:There are 5 in this pack, so I don't know what you mean.I just talked to one of BIG cattlemen up near the Wedge/Profanity areas that has their cattle there. He told me that the Cattlemans Association is pretty much giving the WDFW an ultimatum to either kill the wolves or they will hire their own trapper and have him/her come in and kill the wolves.Are they talking about the 3 other wolves of the 4 that were authorized to be killed?
Cattlemen won't get anywhere with their ultimatum either way. They have no power over the state, they will bring unwanted scrutiny and attention if they issue any such ultimatum to wdfw, and if they try and follow through those involved will face serious legal and financial issues/hardships. :bdid:
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on October 04, 2014, 12:09:26 PM
Post by: buckfvr on October 04, 2014, 12:42:13 PM
Post by: bearpaw on October 04, 2014, 01:00:02 PM
I hope someone asks the questions that Special T suggested! :tup:
We recently spent 3 days scouting in Selkirk 113. Saw wolf tracks in numerous drainages, saw 1 gray colored wolf, and found one bull moose that had been eaten by wolves, wolf tracks everywhere. No moose or other ungulates were sighted in the areas with wolves and moose tracks were not as numerous in those drainages as in past seasons.
The search for moose became a search for an area with no wolves. We found an area with no wolf sign and sure enough saw 2 young bulls and 4 cow moose that day. It certainly appears wolves are impacting moose numbers in the drainages with wolf activity. Moose tag numbers have been reduced in GMU 113, I expect further reductions of moose tags as wolves continue to expand and impact the moose population. :twocents:
Post by: PA BEN on October 04, 2014, 03:34:01 PM
Post by: KFhunter on October 04, 2014, 04:25:45 PM
Sorry, I can't go to the wolf meeting, I am busy with hunters.
I hope someone asks the questions that Special T suggested! :tup:
We recently spent 3 days scouting in Selkirk 113. Saw wolf tracks in numerous drainages, saw 1 gray colored wolf, and found one bull moose that had been eaten by wolves, wolf tracks everywhere. No moose or other ungulates were sighted in the areas with wolves and moose tracks were not as numerous in those drainages as in past seasons.
The search for moose became a search for an area with no wolves. We found an area with no wolf sign and sure enough saw 2 young bulls and 4 cow moose that day. It certainly appears wolves are impacting moose numbers in the drainages with wolf activity. Moose tag numbers have been reduced in GMU 113, I expect further reductions of moose tags as wolves continue to expand and impact the moose population. :twocents:
I could have saved you 3 days worth of gas money :tung:
Post by: bearpaw on October 04, 2014, 05:43:37 PM
Hey bearpaw, did you hear about Knife river crew witnessing a wolf attack on cattle up Aladdin HWY on the 1st?
No, but would like to hear more?
Post by: PA BEN on October 04, 2014, 07:03:42 PM
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on October 04, 2014, 07:10:57 PM
You should find out if Wolf Haven will be opening satellite offices around the state! Remember: there's a high incidence of rectal cancer for the attendees of these meetings - you know, from the second-hand smoke being blown up your backside. :tup: Have fun.
Now that is funny.
Post by: mfswallace on October 05, 2014, 12:30:57 PM
A friend who works for them posted it on face book. I asked if someone told the game dept. The game dept. told them they were coyotes. Someone I think the rancher took samples. Here is the post on that when I asked if they were going to the wolf meeting in Colville. "Pretty sure he'll be there with something to say. He took hair and scat samples. Game dept hold him he couldn't. Think he said some colorful words at that point. Sheriff was no help"
Facebook link ???
Post by: Ridgeratt on October 08, 2014, 05:06:14 AM
Post by: PA BEN on October 08, 2014, 07:06:01 AM
http://www.kxly.com/news/spokane-news/ranchers-express-frustration-over-wolf-management/29004584 (http://www.kxly.com/news/spokane-news/ranchers-express-frustration-over-wolf-management/29004584)
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2014/oct/08/anger-over-wolf-attacks-rekindles-at-washington/ (http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2014/oct/08/anger-over-wolf-attacks-rekindles-at-washington/)
I didn’t have a note pad so I don’t have a lot of names; a commissioner from Okanogan County spoke first. The first words out of his mouth were, “we in Okanogan don’t shoot, shovel and shut up we just shut up.” People in Okanogan don’t want to go through what Ranchers in Stevens Co. went through, IE; Death threats and the lack of competent WDFW staff to handle wolf complaints. Mike Blankenship of Ferry Co. was next. Stevens Co. Commissioner Wes McCart started out with I’m pissed off. All the elected officials that spoke said that WDFW has no credibility and their wolf plan does not and will not work. They all said this State will not have their wolves just in the NE corner for their fell good policies. Phil Anderson,
Director WDFW was held responsible and was told that the WDFW was incompetent to handle wolves. This was said not only by all the elected officials but by all who spoke. He spoke again at the meetings end and didn’t look the crowd in the eye as he spoke. He was eating a lot of humble pie. I have to get off to work now.
Post by: wolfbait on October 08, 2014, 08:18:21 AM
WDFW have and will continue to make delisting a very slow process, with minimal help to livestock producers who suffer from wolf predation, and like the Okanogan, other counties will learn to take care of their problem wolves themselves.
WDFW's only objective is to use wolves as a tool to ruin hunting and ranching, and make rural lie as unpleasant as possible. Can anyone say more habitat for no game, and in the end wildlife corridors with public lands locked up and managed by an environmental group.
Thanks for posting Ridgeratt and PA BEN :tup:
Post by: bearpaw on October 08, 2014, 08:30:27 AM
It was also pointed out that the recent attack on cattle in Aladdin Valley had reports filed by the Stevens County Sherrif's Dept and by WDFW and that the reports were not alike at all. Something about WDFW tried to say the wolves were not endangering the cattle and people clearly saw the wolves chasing the cattle.
I expect the county to explore all options, this will get interesting.
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 08, 2014, 08:44:10 AM
Post by: AspenBud on October 08, 2014, 08:51:23 AM
I didn't see anything about the new pet wolf given to Wolf Haven, and as to whether it would be spayed and DNA'd, inventoried. Anyone know?
It's kind of hard to imagine that it won't at least have a microchip stuffed into its neck like most pet dogs these days. But I could be surprised.
Post by: Southpole on October 08, 2014, 08:55:15 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 08, 2014, 09:09:41 AM
"Dear Mr. Pamplin and Members of the Wildlife Commission,
As you most likely know, I'm a Master Hunter, a member of several conservation groups, and a member of an active member online forum which has in excess of 16,000 members. I'd like to know a few things about the recent transfer of a captured problem female wild wolf to Wolf Haven. 1. Was or will this wolf be spayed to avoid breeding with other species or hybrids? 2. Was DNA profiling done on this wolf for use in possible future examinations or investigations? 3. Is there a program set up to monitor the life of this wolf at the facility to ensure it doesn't accidentally escape and become a problem in another part of the state?
There are many people who don't understand this transfer. The appearance of a relationship between the WDFW and and activist pro-wolf organization is definitely raising some eyebrows in the hunting and farming/ranching communities. In addition, as far as I can tell, no such transfer is outlined in the Wolf Plan and questions are being raised as to whether this transfer was 4. Even allowed under the program, 5. the decision of one person, or that of a group of people, and 6. who that person or people are. I'd like to get answers to all of these questions in a timely manner please. Feel free to contact me at your earliest convenience. Thank you for your consideration of my request."
Post by: baldopepper on October 08, 2014, 09:17:08 AM
Post by: AspenBud on October 08, 2014, 09:19:46 AM
I'm pretty convinced that this whole issue will only come to a head with WDFW when and if packs are established on the west side and actually become a threat to the outlying major population centers. Bottom line, when 75% of the votes come from the west side, wdfw is going to listen to what they want (or be replaced by people who do). That's just plain and simple the way it works. Polls consistently show the majority of voters in the state (i.e.-the westside) want wolves reintroduced. It's sad and not right, but unfortunately that's the way it works. Keep in mind that when I tell people I have a home on the eastside near Lake Roosevelt the majority admit they don't know for sure where that's at. (and that includes people who were born and raised in this state) It's sad, but a whole lot of westsiders only know that Spokane and Pullman are on the eastside and outside of that, anything that happens over there may as well be happening on Mars. Until wolves start showing up in Issaquah or Bellevue they have no interest in the problem, they just watch channel 9 on tv and think wolves are poor, misunderstood, cuddly little animals that occasionally kill an elk in Yellowstone. When wolves finally start taking cats out of peoples backyards over here or get seen near a school, you may get something other than lip service out of state agencies. Hate to say it, but you can't really think they're going to pay much attention to what Stevens county thinks when there are less votes coming out of there than are coming out of Federal Way. Just my :twocents:
Truth on so many levels right there. :yeah:
Stevens County has a little over 43,000 people...there are A LOT of cities, even outside of King county, on the west side that have more people than that and there are plenty of counties comprised of small towns west of the mountains that dwarf that.
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 08, 2014, 09:41:29 AM
Post by: AspenBud on October 08, 2014, 09:54:33 AM
That said, I suspect that if wolves start showing up regularly west of the mountains many will be convinced they don't need as strong a set of protections as we see today. They won't be in the streets demanding delisting, but they will be more open to it at the ballot box.
Post by: baldopepper on October 08, 2014, 10:13:11 AM
Post by: wolfbait on October 08, 2014, 10:58:16 AM
I'm pretty convinced that this whole issue will only come to a head with WDFW when and if packs are established on the west side and actually become a threat to the outlying major population centers. Bottom line, when 75% of the votes come from the west side, wdfw is going to listen to what they want (or be replaced by people who do). That's just plain and simple the way it works. Polls consistently show the majority of voters in the state (i.e.-the westside) want wolves reintroduced. It's sad and not right, but unfortunately that's the way it works. Keep in mind that when I tell people I have a home on the eastside near Lake Roosevelt the majority admit they don't know for sure where that's at. (and that includes people who were born and raised in this state) It's sad, but a whole lot of westsiders only know that Spokane and Pullman are on the eastside and outside of that, anything that happens over there may as well be happening on Mars. Until wolves start showing up in Issaquah or Bellevue they have no interest in the problem, they just watch channel 9 on tv and think wolves are poor, misunderstood, cuddly little animals that occasionally kill an elk in Yellowstone. When wolves finally start taking cats out of peoples backyards over here or get seen near a school, you may get something other than lip service out of state agencies. Hate to say it, but you can't really think they're going to pay much attention to what Stevens county thinks when there are less votes coming out of there than are coming out of Federal Way. Just my :two cents:
There are already wolf packs on the west side, and just like the east side, WDFW will not confirm any of them until they are forced to do so. The same pony show that is going on here on the east side will happen all over again on the westside. The wolves are about driving people out of the country and into the city. Watch and see.
The only wolf control, will come from people who take it into their own hands, people that are tired of suffering losses or harassment from wolves, WDFW will continue to pretend just like a steer.
Post by: KFhunter on October 08, 2014, 11:12:30 AM
WDFW is going to turn them into law breakers with their lies and mismanagement of wolves. They've already lost the public's trust, next their going to loose their compliance.
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 08, 2014, 11:20:29 AM
The problem with hoping they hit the west side is people here already have a lot of contact with wildlife that takes out pets and even attacks people. Through sheer numbers of people you have a much higher chance of that. People are kind of numb and accepting that wild animals can hurt pets and people here.
That said, I suspect that if wolves start showing up regularly west of the mountains many will be convinced they don't need as strong a set of protections as we see today. They won't be in the streets demanding delisting, but they will be more open to it at the ballot box.
You said this about predators before. They've not seen predators like wolves before. Nothing like them. Once we get a few packs over here and they get into the rural parts of King and Pierce Co.s, the support for wolves will dissipate quickly.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 08, 2014, 11:29:21 AM
It's coming to a theater near us very soon.
Post by: AspenBud on October 08, 2014, 11:38:24 AM
The problem with hoping they hit the west side is people here already have a lot of contact with wildlife that takes out pets and even attacks people. Through sheer numbers of people you have a much higher chance of that. People are kind of numb and accepting that wild animals can hurt pets and people here.
That said, I suspect that if wolves start showing up regularly west of the mountains many will be convinced they don't need as strong a set of protections as we see today. They won't be in the streets demanding delisting, but they will be more open to it at the ballot box.
You said this about predators before. They've not seen predators like wolves before. Nothing like them. Once we get a few packs over here and they get into the rural parts of King and Pierce Co.s, the support for wolves will dissipate quickly.
And that support will disappear because of property losses, not threats to human safety, and it's a safe bet whether it happens in Pierce, King, Whatcom, Clark, Grays Harbor, Cowlitz, Thurston, etc counties will not matter. Like I've also said, dead is dead, be it by cougar, bear, coyote, or wolf. And people west of the mountains have had to deal with all but the wolf over the years. You make it sound like the west side is some utopia devoid of dangerous wild animals where no one ever loses a dog or gets attacked themselves. You're either an out of state transplant or don't get out much because that perception is just not true.
Post by: AspenBud on October 08, 2014, 11:40:27 AM
Mark my word: There will be a Cliven Bundy standoff with the ranchers about these wolves, when just one wolf is shot and killed, without the liberal thinking WDFW permission.
It's coming to a theater near us very soon.
Probably because that's what people want. The issue has far more to do with distrust and unhappiness of government than anything to do with wolves. Something that is sad because it will take attention away from the issue of wolves.
When ol Clive decided to "take a stand" no one really paid much attention to the ESA issue that he wanted to talk about. They focused on his anti government stance and the money issues. Solar farms got more attention than the tortoise. The same will happen with the wolf issue if a similar standoff occurs.
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 08, 2014, 12:04:53 PM
The problem with hoping they hit the west side is people here already have a lot of contact with wildlife that takes out pets and even attacks people. Through sheer numbers of people you have a much higher chance of that. People are kind of numb and accepting that wild animals can hurt pets and people here.
That said, I suspect that if wolves start showing up regularly west of the mountains many will be convinced they don't need as strong a set of protections as we see today. They won't be in the streets demanding delisting, but they will be more open to it at the ballot box.
You said this about predators before. They've not seen predators like wolves before. Nothing like them. Once we get a few packs over here and they get into the rural parts of King and Pierce Co.s, the support for wolves will dissipate quickly.
And that support will disappear because of property losses, not threats to human safety, and it's a safe bet whether it happens in Pierce, King, Whatcom, Clark, Grays Harbor, Cowlitz, Thurston, etc counties will not matter. Like I've also said, dead is dead, be it by cougar, bear, coyote, or wolf. And people west of the mountains have had to deal with all but the wolf over the years. You make it sound like the west side is some utopia devoid of dangerous wild animals where no one ever loses a dog or gets attacked themselves. You're either an out of state transplant or don't get out much because that perception is just not true.
Nope, I just know that wolves are a different predator than any the west has been exposed to. As I've pointed out to you before, unlike bears and cougars, wolves hunt in packs and have the ability think out their attack. They're better at it than coyotes, too. As far as being an out-of-state transplant is concerned, I've been here for 30 years and I damned sure know the woods and wildlife as good as you. The people who oppose management are selfish and live in a fantasy world about wolves. They see them as cuddly creatures that play and they've seen the tame wolves that the greenies bring to schools to show them how nice they are. As soon as they're exposed to the harsh realities of wolves loose in their backyards, they'll see them in a whole different light. I know you want to portray wolves as just another predator like bears and cougars. They're not just another predator like bears and cougars. Some of us know that and don't buy into your PR BS.
Post by: baldopepper on October 08, 2014, 12:11:11 PM
I've gotta kind of disagree with you on this Aspenbud-westside people do not deal with predators well at all. It's a major news article if a bear is seen anywhere near a school and this recent coyote scare was crazy. People near discovery park were up in arms when a couple of coyotes were actually seen in the park with neighborhood letters going out warning people to not only keep their small animals in doors, but to also not let their small children play outside unattended. Heck, I have a neighbor who will not let her children play outside of their fenced back yard because of reports that coyotes have been seen in the greenbelt two blocks away. I have friends who won't hike certain trails because someone reported seeing a bear there while hiking. I'm willing to bet that if wolves were spotted on the popular tiger mtn trails that they would either close them for a while, or hiking traffic would decline to near nothing. I've lived over here on the westside since 1980 and daily deal with a wide spectrum of people, I can assure you that the majority would literally quake in their boots if they thought wolves were living anywhere near their home and not in a zoo. I do agree that the anti government rhetoric and conspiracy theories do not help the cause to get reasonable wolf management done. Hate to see all of us get painted with the same brush.The problem with hoping they hit the west side is people here already have a lot of contact with wildlife that takes out pets and even attacks people. Through sheer numbers of people you have a much higher chance of that. People are kind of numb and accepting that wild animals can hurt pets and people here.
That said, I suspect that if wolves start showing up regularly west of the mountains many will be convinced they don't need as strong a set of protections as we see today. They won't be in the streets demanding delisting, but they will be more open to it at the ballot box.
You said this about predators before. They've not seen predators like wolves before. Nothing like them. Once we get a few packs over here and they get into the rural parts of King and Pierce Co.s, the support for wolves will dissipate quickly.
And that support will disappear because of property losses, not threats to human safety, and it's a safe bet whether it happens in Pierce, King, Whatcom, Clark, Grays Harbor, Cowlitz, Thurston, etc counties will not matter. Like I've also said, dead is dead, be it by cougar, bear, coyote, or wolf. And people west of the mountains have had to deal with all but the wolf over the years. You make it sound like the west side is some utopia devoid of dangerous wild animals where no one ever loses a dog or gets attacked themselves. You're either an out of state transplant or don't get out much because that perception is just not true.
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on October 08, 2014, 12:36:26 PM
This is true and the reason why I can't wait until there are wolves on our side of the state. We won't have meaningful management until it hits people where they live. I won't go as far as saying i think it'd great if a couple of future liberal tree huggers got chewed up, but I'd like to see a few Fidos disappear to wake em up.
Here in Hoquiam it's a couple cougars who have made quite a dent in the local pet population. Fish and Wildlife won't do anything about it. Probably won't unless some kid gets dragged off from one of the grade schools in the area they hang out.
It's way more worrisome to have big cats around than wolves. Cats have actually fairly regularly attacked and killed people. Wolves? In spite of all the speculation, not so much. You can count fatal wolf attacks on humans in North America on one hand and have a few fingers left over.
Post by: AspenBud on October 08, 2014, 01:24:15 PM
This is true and the reason why I can't wait until there are wolves on our side of the state. We won't have meaningful management until it hits people where they live. I won't go as far as saying i think it'd great if a couple of future liberal tree huggers got chewed up, but I'd like to see a few Fidos disappear to wake em up.
Here in Hoquiam it's a couple cougars who have made quite a dent in the local pet population. Fish and Wildlife won't do anything about it. Probably won't unless some kid gets dragged off from one of the grade schools in the area they hang out.
It's way more worrisome to have big cats around than wolves. Cats have actually fairly regularly attacked and killed people. Wolves? In spite of all the speculation, not so much. You can count fatal wolf attacks on humans in North America on one hand and have a few fingers left over.
Yes, but we all know that Hoquiam isn't a part of the "west side." Only King County and it's 2 million people living on greenbelts out of 7 million in the state represents that. Nothing rural at all here, just a bunch of scared city people. ;) :chuckle:
Post by: AspenBud on October 08, 2014, 01:32:15 PM
The problem with hoping they hit the west side is people here already have a lot of contact with wildlife that takes out pets and even attacks people. Through sheer numbers of people you have a much higher chance of that. People are kind of numb and accepting that wild animals can hurt pets and people here.
That said, I suspect that if wolves start showing up regularly west of the mountains many will be convinced they don't need as strong a set of protections as we see today. They won't be in the streets demanding delisting, but they will be more open to it at the ballot box.
You said this about predators before. They've not seen predators like wolves before. Nothing like them. Once we get a few packs over here and they get into the rural parts of King and Pierce Co.s, the support for wolves will dissipate quickly.
And that support will disappear because of property losses, not threats to human safety, and it's a safe bet whether it happens in Pierce, King, Whatcom, Clark, Grays Harbor, Cowlitz, Thurston, etc counties will not matter. Like I've also said, dead is dead, be it by cougar, bear, coyote, or wolf. And people west of the mountains have had to deal with all but the wolf over the years. You make it sound like the west side is some utopia devoid of dangerous wild animals where no one ever loses a dog or gets attacked themselves. You're either an out of state transplant or don't get out much because that perception is just not true.
Nope, I just know that wolves are a different predator than any the west has been exposed to. As I've pointed out to you before, unlike bears and cougars, wolves hunt in packs and have the ability think out their attack. They're better at it than coyotes, too. As far as being an out-of-state transplant is concerned, I've been here for 30 years and I damned sure know the woods and wildlife as good as you. The people who oppose management are selfish and live in a fantasy world about wolves. They see them as cuddly creatures that play and they've seen the tame wolves that the greenies bring to schools to show them how nice they are. As soon as they're exposed to the harsh realities of wolves loose in their backyards, they'll see them in a whole different light. I know you want to portray wolves as just another predator like bears and cougars. They're not just another predator like bears and cougars. Some of us know that and don't buy into your PR BS.
You go worry about that then. Meanwhile a hunter near Longview, a west side town, got attacked by a bear this Fall. The guy was so "upset" by it that he told the state not to hunt down and kill the bear because he felt it was doing what bears do. I wonder how many people in Stevens County have been attacked by a wolf...hmm...oh that's right, zero. I'm not saying it can't or won't happen, but to say people aren't used to dangerous wildlife here west of the mountains, that's both wrong and insulting.
Of course wolves are different, so what? If a pack of wolves kills you or a cougar or a bear kills you you're still dead.
Post by: timberfaller on October 08, 2014, 02:34:59 PM
None as of yet, but there has been attacks by cougars in peoples yards on their children.
When they complained(too many) to WDFW, they had their season cut as well as number of tags.
Go figure! :dunno:
Post by: buckfvr on October 08, 2014, 03:54:36 PM
Local radio is playing comments made by Commissioner McCart and Cattleman Ted Wishon. McCart lambasted WDFW for their response to the commissioners resolution on wolves. He pointed out that "purported" and "constitutional rights" do not belong in the same sentence. He also stated that Stevens County will move forward in any way possible to resolve these wolf issues.
It was also pointed out that the recent attack on cattle in Aladdin Valley had reports filed by the Stevens County Sherrif's Dept and by WDFW and that the reports were not alike at all. Something about WDFW tried to say the wolves were not endangering the cattle and people clearly saw the wolves chasing the cattle.
I expect the county to explore all options, this will get interesting.
So...... do the game wardens file a false report or are their reports edited for content at another level ? Regardless, how can any of them be trusted . :twocents:
Post by: PA BEN on October 08, 2014, 04:28:29 PM
Everything that was said about the report from WDFW on this made the point that it was false without saying it directly by our elected officials. Now for the people there, they were calling the game dept. liars. They were calling them out saying a lot of people saw those wolves chase the cattle and the dept. wrote a false report. As far as the westside dealing w/predators, all the comments there were not that the westside doesn't deal with predators it's the fact that wolves are an apex predator and we are dealing with them and if they want wolves so bad they should have them over there. The Lynnwood wolf meeting was brought up. Why are you having a meeting with westsiders that don't live w/wolves to help you make policy. No answer to that question.Local radio is playing comments made by Commissioner McCart and Cattleman Ted Wishon. McCart lambasted WDFW for their response to the commissioners resolution on wolves. He pointed out that "purported" and "constitutional rights" do not belong in the same sentence. He also stated that Stevens County will move forward in any way possible to resolve these wolf issues.
It was also pointed out that the recent attack on cattle in Aladdin Valley had reports filed by the Stevens County Sherrif's Dept and by WDFW and that the reports were not alike at all. Something about WDFW tried to say the wolves were not endangering the cattle and people clearly saw the wolves chasing the cattle.
I expect the county to explore all options, this will get interesting.
So...... do the game wardens file a false report or are their reports edited for content at another level ? Regardless, how can any of them be trusted . :twocents:
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 08, 2014, 05:37:05 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 08, 2014, 08:05:40 PM
Post by: baldopepper on October 08, 2014, 08:08:54 PM
This kind of makes my point , PA Ben. The problem is on the east side, but the battle has to be done on the west side. These state agencies grovel at the feet of elected officials and everyone knows where the majority of those votes are in this state. I honestly don't believe that wolf advocates will ever allow any viable numbers of wolves on this side of the state simply because it would bring the battle into the to the homes of that majority vote. I was only half kidding when I advocated pushing for more packs, but establishing them on the westside. Seems logical to me, heck , does away with the problem of major livestock confrontations and there are certainly areas that fit the environment that wolves need. Granted most of those areas are also popular outdoor recreation areas for the REI shopping crowd, but I'm sure they'd welcome the occasional wolf encounter while hiking places like Mt. Si with their families. I strongly believe that the only way to ever achieve a reasonable management program is to have meetings like the one coming in Lynnwood to be filled with westside voters wanting to know why they're seeing wolves in their backyards.Everything that was said about the report from WDFW on this made the point that it was false without saying it directly by our elected officials. Now for the people there, they were calling the game dept. liars. They were calling them out saying a lot of people saw those wolves chase the cattle and the dept. wrote a false report. As far as the westside dealing w/predators, all the comments there were not that the westside doesn't deal with predators it's the fact that wolves are an apex predator and we are dealing with them and if they want wolves so bad they should have them over there. The Lynnwood wolf meeting was brought up. Why are you having a meeting with westsiders that don't live w/wolves to help you make policy. No answer to that question.Local radio is playing comments made by Commissioner McCart and Cattleman Ted Wishon. McCart lambasted WDFW for their response to the commissioners resolution on wolves. He pointed out that "purported" and "constitutional rights" do not belong in the same sentence. He also stated that Stevens County will move forward in any way possible to resolve these wolf issues.
It was also pointed out that the recent attack on cattle in Aladdin Valley had reports filed by the Stevens County Sherrif's Dept and by WDFW and that the reports were not alike at all. Something about WDFW tried to say the wolves were not endangering the cattle and people clearly saw the wolves chasing the cattle.
I expect the county to explore all options, this will get interesting.
So...... do the game wardens file a false report or are their reports edited for content at another level ? Regardless, how can any of them be trusted . :twocents:
Post by: villageidiot on October 08, 2014, 08:15:10 PM
So we eliminated bubonic plague,polio,measles,mumps,rheumatic fever, leprocy and a host of other diseases because they did more harm than good. We still have a few very undesirable diseases we are trying to at least hold at bay. Why in the world would we want to bring back one of these very destructive vermins just because a bunch of city folks think the world will get lopsided without having a good bunch of these cancerous vermins? One might notice too that the majority of the groups and people that want them only want them to be in somebody else's back yard.
Sure we have a few bear and cougar attacks but we don't need to add another animal that we were doing just fine without. In fact before I-955 we were actually managing cougar and bear where we had very few problems with cougar and bear. Since we lost baiting,trapping and hound hunting we lost our ability to manage these dangerous animals. Of course it has no affect on the city folks either way because they live in the concrete jungle where there are no animals.
It's just amazing how selfish and unsympathetic people are that have "no skin in the game".
By the way, I do have livestock "skin in the game" and am a Wildlife Biologist.
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on October 09, 2014, 12:02:41 AM
It's just amazing how selfish and unsympathetic people are that have "no skin in the game".
By the way, I do have livestock "skin in the game" and am a Wildlife Biologist.
I'm no Wildlife Biologist, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night....... :rolleyes:
Post by: mkcj on October 09, 2014, 12:28:48 AM
"Relocating wolves would be a costly endeavor, requiring federal and state review, said Steve Pozzanghera, the department’s eastern regional director"
BS! they know where every den site is for every pack, trapping would be much easier and less costly then shooting them. Then the wolf lovers on the west side can enjoy them also.
Post by: PA BEN on October 09, 2014, 05:54:05 AM
Post by: PA BEN on October 09, 2014, 06:06:13 AM
Letter to Nate and the Commission, copied reps and senator:The question was asked about wolf haven and this wolf. They told the story about the two wolves running w/a local dog and one got bread. They spayed one and collared them. This one has become a problem and with all the advice from all groups the Director made the decision to give this wolf to wolf haven. Alot of comments came from the crowd that the wolf should have been shot. Someone asked what happened to the other wolf? They said it got hit by a car and the crowd got up and clapped. Also, someone said this is a wild wolf, it will suffer in captivity and pace back and forth along the fence. They said if this doesn't work, it will be put down.
"Dear Mr. Pamplin and Members of the Wildlife Commission,
As you most likely know, I'm a Master Hunter, a member of several conservation groups, and a member of an active member online forum which has in excess of 16,000 members. I'd like to know a few things about the recent transfer of a captured problem female wild wolf to Wolf Haven. 1. Was or will this wolf be spayed to avoid breeding with other species or hybrids? 2. Was DNA profiling done on this wolf for use in possible future examinations or investigations? 3. Is there a program set up to monitor the life of this wolf at the facility to ensure it doesn't accidentally escape and become a problem in another part of the state?
There are many people who don't understand this transfer. The appearance of a relationship between the WDFW and and activist pro-wolf organization is definitely raising some eyebrows in the hunting and farming/ranching communities. In addition, as far as I can tell, no such transfer is outlined in the Wolf Plan and questions are being raised as to whether this transfer was 4. Even allowed under the program, 5. the decision of one person, or that of a group of people, and 6. who that person or people are. I'd like to get answers to all of these questions in a timely manner please. Feel free to contact me at your earliest convenience. Thank you for your consideration of my request."
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 09, 2014, 06:15:48 AM
Post by: headshot5 on October 09, 2014, 06:24:46 AM
Quote
After speaking with someone very involved with the wolf program, he indicated the the WDFW is doing what they can to manage the wolves in the face of fierce opposition from the pro-wolf groups. He did say that if there were able they'd be managing the wolves more aggressively. They're being hampered in this by overwhelming public opinion in favor of the wolves and the possibility of pressure from the Governor's office is also a factor. It was also apparent from talking with him that when they were formulating the plan, they had no idea what they were getting into with regards to the scope and goals of the program, much as we've discussed and speculated on this forum. He urged me to keep from getting personal toward any one member of the WDFW as no one person is responsible for how they're being managed at this point. The information was helpful in getting an overall idea of where the program stands right now. I feel even stringer that the only hope we have to being able to manage the wolves within a reasonable period of time is if westsiders get a taste of the packs.
Interestingly enough this is pretty much what Idahohuntr has been saying all along. :dunno: I do quite agree with you that we are going to only see results when wolves start plaguing the west-siders. I can only hope that day comes quickly (even though I have mixed feelings about it happening).
Post by: PA BEN on October 09, 2014, 06:33:47 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 09, 2014, 06:40:58 AM
QuoteAfter speaking with someone very involved with the wolf program, he indicated the the WDFW is doing what they can to manage the wolves in the face of fierce opposition from the pro-wolf groups. He did say that if there were able they'd be managing the wolves more aggressively. They're being hampered in this by overwhelming public opinion in favor of the wolves and the possibility of pressure from the Governor's office is also a factor. It was also apparent from talking with him that when they were formulating the plan, they had no idea what they were getting into with regards to the scope and goals of the program, much as we've discussed and speculated on this forum. He urged me to keep from getting personal toward any one member of the WDFW as no one person is responsible for how they're being managed at this point. The information was helpful in getting an overall idea of where the program stands right now. I feel even stringer that the only hope we have to being able to manage the wolves within a reasonable period of time is if westsiders get a taste of the packs.
Interestingly enough this is pretty much what Idahohuntr has been saying all along. :dunno: I do quite agree with you that we are going to only see results when wolves start plaguing the west-siders. I can only hope that day comes quickly (even though I have mixed feelings about it happening).
Not so much. He's not been saying they designed a plan way over their heads and are paying for their own mistakes. He's been one of their staunchest supporters in this plan. They screwed the pooch on this and the ranchers have to pay for it.
Post by: AspenBud on October 09, 2014, 06:52:22 AM
Senator Brian Dansel spoke at the end of the meeting and chewed WDFW's a??. He said he is going to introduce legislation to move game management to the County and not the State. He got a standing O for that one. He said it will bring more money to the Counties and will benefit the wildlife.
Unfortunately for the good senator state land belongs to the state and federal land belongs to the Fed. Or put another way, those lands belong to a heck of a lot more people than Stevens County.
Post by: AspenBud on October 09, 2014, 07:00:02 AM
QuoteAfter speaking with someone very involved with the wolf program, he indicated the the WDFW is doing what they can to manage the wolves in the face of fierce opposition from the pro-wolf groups. He did say that if there were able they'd be managing the wolves more aggressively. They're being hampered in this by overwhelming public opinion in favor of the wolves and the possibility of pressure from the Governor's office is also a factor. It was also apparent from talking with him that when they were formulating the plan, they had no idea what they were getting into with regards to the scope and goals of the program, much as we've discussed and speculated on this forum. He urged me to keep from getting personal toward any one member of the WDFW as no one person is responsible for how they're being managed at this point. The information was helpful in getting an overall idea of where the program stands right now. I feel even stringer that the only hope we have to being able to manage the wolves within a reasonable period of time is if westsiders get a taste of the packs.
Interestingly enough this is pretty much what Idahohuntr has been saying all along. :dunno: I do quite agree with you that we are going to only see results when wolves start plaguing the west-siders. I can only hope that day comes quickly (even though I have mixed feelings about it happening).
Not so much. He's not been saying they designed a plan way over their heads and are paying for their own mistakes. He's been one of their staunchest supporters in this plan. They screwed the pooch on this and the ranchers have to pay for it.
He has been telling you for a long time now that WDFW has its hands tied by the extremist pro wolf side which is effectively what this other individual said. The statements are nearly the same. But hard truth is not what people want in this, they want big bad government agencies so they can affirm their anti government stances.
You wait, if a Clive Bundy style showdown happens it will quickly devolve from wolves to talk about Federal/state land grabs and the issue will get buried. If you think people don't take ranchers seriously on wolves now, just wait.
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 09, 2014, 07:07:32 AM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 09, 2014, 07:10:05 AM
Senator Brian Dansel spoke at the end of the meeting and chewed WDFW's a??. He said he is going to introduce legislation to move game management to the County and not the State. He got a standing O for that one. He said it will bring more money to the Counties and will benefit the wildlife.
Unfortunately for the good senator state land belongs to the state and federal land belongs to the Fed. Or put another way, those lands belong to a heck of a lot more people than Stevens County.
You are totally wrong on who owns the lands in this entire country. We, the people do. We are the gubmint ( loosely because of how we're threatened by the corruption in the gubmint ). The gubmint is working for us, not the other way around. We pay their salaries, every cent of it. We need our power back and not the gubmint getting more and more and screwing us, period.
Post by: AspenBud on October 09, 2014, 07:12:35 AM
Senator Brian Dansel spoke at the end of the meeting and chewed WDFW's a??. He said he is going to introduce legislation to move game management to the County and not the State. He got a standing O for that one. He said it will bring more money to the Counties and will benefit the wildlife.
Unfortunately for the good senator state land belongs to the state and federal land belongs to the Fed. Or put another way, those lands belong to a heck of a lot more people than Stevens County.
You are totally wrong on who owns the lands in this entire country. We, the people do. We are the gubmint ( loosely because of how we're threatened by the corruption in the gubmint ). The gubmint is working for us, not the other way around. We pay their salaries, every cent of it. We need our power back and not the gubmint getting more and more and screwing us, period.
You're absolutely right, it's we the people. Not just the people of Stevens County. Every deer, elk, cougar, wolf, tree, spot of dirt... if it's on government land it belongs to everyone, not just one small population center in the corner of the state. That doesn't make what is happening particularly fair, but the fact remains, the county can enforce rules on county land and that's about it. The good senator just did what any politician does and say what his constituents wanted to hear and make promises that he can't keep or that are unachievable.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 09, 2014, 07:27:23 AM
Senator Brian Dansel spoke at the end of the meeting and chewed WDFW's a??. He said he is going to introduce legislation to move game management to the County and not the State. He got a standing O for that one. He said it will bring more money to the Counties and will benefit the wildlife.
Unfortunately for the good senator state land belongs to the state and federal land belongs to the Fed. Or put another way, those lands belong to a heck of a lot more people than Stevens County.
You are totally wrong on who owns the lands in this entire country. We, the people do. We are the gubmint ( loosely because of how we're threatened by the corruption in the gubmint ). The gubmint is working for us, not the other way around. We pay their salaries, every cent of it. We need our power back and not the gubmint getting more and more and screwing us, period.
You're absolutely right, it's we the people. Not just the people of Stevens County.
That's the problem, people from out of state pretty much get a vote on huge problems they have zero incidents/experiences with, ever.
How many real wolves have you seen in Washington, seeing, not seeing scat or hair ?
How many ranchers do you know who's cattle is getting killed by wolves ?
How many cops do you know who investigates these wolf kills in Stevens County ?
How many times have you reported wolf sightings and or wolf track pictures to the WDFW ?
Me: 6 wolves
Me: ! ( the biggest cattleman in Stevens County )
Me: 2 cops
ME: at least a dozen times with zero care from WDFW 5 years ago to date.
Post by: KFhunter on October 09, 2014, 08:13:44 AM
Senator Brian Dansel spoke at the end of the meeting and chewed WDFW's a??. He said he is going to introduce legislation to move game management to the County and not the State. He got a standing O for that one. He said it will bring more money to the Counties and will benefit the wildlife.
Unfortunately for the good senator state land belongs to the state and federal land belongs to the Fed. Or put another way, those lands belong to a heck of a lot more people than Stevens County.
You are totally wrong on who owns the lands in this entire country. We, the people do. We are the gubmint ( loosely because of how we're threatened by the corruption in the gubmint ). The gubmint is working for us, not the other way around. We pay their salaries, every cent of it. We need our power back and not the gubmint getting more and more and screwing us, period.
You're absolutely right, it's we the people. Not just the people of Stevens County. Every deer, elk, cougar, wolf, tree, spot of dirt... if it's on government land it belongs to everyone, not just one small population center in the corner of the state. That doesn't make what is happening particularly fair, but the fact remains, the county can enforce rules on county land and that's about it. The good senator just did what any politician does and say what his constituents wanted to hear and make promises that he can't keep or that are unachievable.
When your neighbors dogs comes over and kills all your chickens what do you do?
You've contacted the neighbor about the problem, you've spend out of pocket 100's of dollars upgrading your fence yet the dogs keep coming over.
Now you've caught your neighbor opening the gate and letting the dogs in your yard!
Neighbor says they're just doing what dogs do and tosses you $2.25 to cover the loss of a chicken that one of his dogs are currently mauling...you tell him you've lost over 20 chickens! the neighbor says wasn't my dogs killed those 20 chickens, must have been a honey badger, you kindly inform him that it wasn't a freaking honey badger they're in Africa you dum...
Now you get into a fist fight, get arrested for assault and tossed in the slammer while all your chickens get confiscated because the city just rezoned your area to prohibit poultry and livestock of any kind while you were in jail. When you finally get home the neighbor just acquired a couple of new dogs, and they bark 24/7.
Post by: KFhunter on October 09, 2014, 08:13:56 AM
Senator Brian Dansel spoke at the end of the meeting and chewed WDFW's a??. He said he is going to introduce legislation to move game management to the County and not the State. He got a standing O for that one. He said it will bring more money to the Counties and will benefit the wildlife.
Unfortunately for the good senator state land belongs to the state and federal land belongs to the Fed. Or put another way, those lands belong to a heck of a lot more people than Stevens County.
You are totally wrong on who owns the lands in this entire country. We, the people do. We are the gubmint ( loosely because of how we're threatened by the corruption in the gubmint ). The gubmint is working for us, not the other way around. We pay their salaries, every cent of it. We need our power back and not the gubmint getting more and more and screwing us, period.
You're absolutely right, it's we the people. Not just the people of Stevens County. Every deer, elk, cougar, wolf, tree, spot of dirt... if it's on government land it belongs to everyone, not just one small population center in the corner of the state. That doesn't make what is happening particularly fair, but the fact remains, the county can enforce rules on county land and that's about it. The good senator just did what any politician does and say what his constituents wanted to hear and make promises that he can't keep or that are unachievable.
When your neighbors dogs comes over and kills all your chickens what do you do?
You've contacted the neighbor about the problem, you've spend out of pocket 100's of dollars upgrading your fence yet the dogs keep coming over.
Now you've caught your neighbor opening the gate and letting the dogs in your yard!
Neighbor says they're just doing what dogs do and tosses you $2.25 to cover the loss of a chicken that one of his dogs are currently mauling...you tell him you've lost over 20 chickens! and due to the harassment by his dogs only a few chickens will lay eggs and they're bloody and unusable! The neighbor says wasn't his dogs killed those 20 chickens, must have been a honey badger, you kindly inform him that it wasn't a freaking honey badger they're in Africa you dum........
Now you get into a fist fight, get arrested for assault and tossed in the slammer while all your chickens get confiscated because the city just rezoned your area to prohibit poultry and livestock of any kind while you were in jail. When you finally get home the neighbor just acquired a couple of new dogs, and they bark 24/7.
Post by: AspenBud on October 09, 2014, 08:42:27 AM
Senator Brian Dansel spoke at the end of the meeting and chewed WDFW's a??. He said he is going to introduce legislation to move game management to the County and not the State. He got a standing O for that one. He said it will bring more money to the Counties and will benefit the wildlife.
Unfortunately for the good senator state land belongs to the state and federal land belongs to the Fed. Or put another way, those lands belong to a heck of a lot more people than Stevens County.
You are totally wrong on who owns the lands in this entire country. We, the people do. We are the gubmint ( loosely because of how we're threatened by the corruption in the gubmint ). The gubmint is working for us, not the other way around. We pay their salaries, every cent of it. We need our power back and not the gubmint getting more and more and screwing us, period.
You're absolutely right, it's we the people. Not just the people of Stevens County. Every deer, elk, cougar, wolf, tree, spot of dirt... if it's on government land it belongs to everyone, not just one small population center in the corner of the state. That doesn't make what is happening particularly fair, but the fact remains, the county can enforce rules on county land and that's about it. The good senator just did what any politician does and say what his constituents wanted to hear and make promises that he can't keep or that are unachievable.
When your neighbors dogs comes over and kills all your chickens what do you do?
You've contacted the neighbor about the problem, you've spend out of pocket 100's of dollars upgrading your fence yet the dogs keep coming over.
Now you've caught your neighbor opening the gate and letting the dogs in your yard!
Neighbor says they're just doing what dogs do and tosses you $2.25 to cover the loss of a chicken that one of his dogs are currently mauling...you tell him you've lost over 20 chickens! and due to the harassment by his dogs only a few chickens will lay eggs and they're bloody and unusable! The neighbor says wasn't his dogs killed those 20 chickens, must have been a honey badger, you kindly inform him that it wasn't a freaking honey badger they're in Africa you dum........
Now you get into a fist fight, get arrested for assault and tossed in the slammer while all your chickens get confiscated because the city just rezoned your area to prohibit poultry and livestock of any kind while you were in jail. When you finally get home the neighbor just acquired a couple of new dogs, and they bark 24/7.
Call animal control...oh wait, that doesn't exist where you are does it?
Go to small claims court.
Or tape a coke bottle to the end of a .22, keep a tarp and a shovel handy (just asking for it if you bury on your property), and keep your mouth shut.
Or do what a friend of my Dad did, shoot the dogs, call the neighbor and tell him you have his dogs and will drop them off, and roll their dead bodies one by one off the back of your pickup in the driveway. Bear in mind that will likely lead to consequences.
I know where you're going with this KF, but my issue here is I think most sensible people know what to do about problem wolves and those folks aren't on here spouting about shoot shovel and shutup. People spouting here about SSS and open conflict with government agencies are really pushing an agenda that has nothing to do with wolves other than they are a convenient vehicle to whip up emotions.
For anyone to try and say that people are just standing by when they see a wolf on their land with no collar on it...I think that's a denial of reality. But it plays well if you're trying to get people who are generally distrustful of government to take it up a notch.
Most smart people who lose chickens to hawks don't draw attention to themselves. They either find a way to protect the birds non-lethally or they take care of it with a gun and bury the evidence. You know it, I know it, and the state and Fed knows it. Not everyone is a boyscout and that's why protections exist to mitigate some level of loss.
Post by: Special T on October 09, 2014, 10:03:02 AM
I dont think people that are upset are Anti Government, they are just sick off poor management. To think that the only real solution is to take matters into your own hands and remain silent about it is MORE wrong to me that trying to get peoples attention on this (or any other) issue.
Post by: vandeman17 on October 09, 2014, 10:49:00 AM
Ranchers are Fed Up With State Wolf Management Plan
Posted Thursday 10/09/14
They're mad as hell and they won't take it anymore. . .
Angry sheep and cattle ranchers filled a meeting hall in Colville earlier this week to tell Fish and Wildlife Department officials that wolf attacks threaten their livelihood.
At issue are sheep and cattle deaths in the Northeast corner of the state blamed on packs of wolves.
Wauconda Rancher and State Representative Joel Kretz says he and fellow ranchers have seen enough...
Kretz says he plans to reintroduce a bill that would relocate some of the wolves to the westside to the state....
QUESTION: HOW MANY PACKS HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED
The State has identified 13 wolf packs with 52 wolves counted to date.
Wildlife agents have killed some wolves to deter attacks in hope that wolves and ranchers can coexist.
Post by: AspenBud on October 09, 2014, 10:52:58 AM
Funny Apenbud i agree with your last post with one exception. SSS is a about talking about more than just wolves. Wolves and numerouse other things that make normally honest hardworking citizens choose between thier way of life, and becoming a criminal. Wolves are the symptom and the disease is the fact that Gov is overreaching, starts problems and then steps away from thier reponcibilites to help protect peoples property, and freedom.
I dont think people that are upset are Anti Government, they are just sick off poor management. To think that the only real solution is to take matters into your own hands and remain silent about it is MORE wrong to me that trying to get peoples attention on this (or any other) issue.
There is nothing wrong with getting peoples' attention regarding the issue.
But when we start talking about Clive Bundy style stand offs over wolves and government land grabs we're not really talking about wolves anymore. But like I said, it plays well to use wolves as a way to whip up peoples' emotions regarding the government. I mean after all, they were released by the government, are protected, and now they "threaten" everyone's livelihood. They are the ultimate scapegoat for just about anything you can think of.
Call me jaded, I just don't believe that most people are going to stand by and let a predator eat up their profits nor do I believe they are going to go public about what they are doing unless they are very very foolish. Like I said, people shoot hawks eating their chickens all the time, they don't need to since the non-lethal fix is simple and cheap, but they do it.
If a gun goes off in farm or ranch country I hardly think anyone is going to bother to call the cops or go investigate. People target shoot and people shoot varmints. Fact of life.
Post by: PA BEN on October 09, 2014, 02:17:47 PM
The good senator didn't just mean stevens county any county in Washington can manage the wildlife in their county. My Dad told me when he was a kid that's how it was and it worked just fine. It's no different than WDFW managing wildlife now on all lands. I do know the County will manage YOUR DEER AND ELK a lot better than WDFW. BTW, why don't you come over and get two of your wolves and take them home w/you. :chuckle:Senator Brian Dansel spoke at the end of the meeting and chewed WDFW's a??. He said he is going to introduce legislation to move game management to the County and not the State. He got a standing O for that one. He said it will bring more money to the Counties and will benefit the wildlife.
Unfortunately for the good senator state land belongs to the state and federal land belongs to the Fed. Or put another way, those lands belong to a heck of a lot more people than Stevens County.
You are totally wrong on who owns the lands in this entire country. We, the people do. We are the gubmint ( loosely because of how we're threatened by the corruption in the gubmint ). The gubmint is working for us, not the other way around. We pay their salaries, every cent of it. We need our power back and not the gubmint getting more and more and screwing us, period.
You're absolutely right, it's we the people. Not just the people of Stevens County. Every deer, elk, cougar, wolf, tree, spot of dirt... if it's on government land it belongs to everyone, not just one small population center in the corner of the state. That doesn't make what is happening particularly fair, but the fact remains, the county can enforce rules on county land and that's about it. The good senator just did what any politician does and say what his constituents wanted to hear and make promises that he can't keep or that are unachievable.
Post by: timberfaller on October 10, 2014, 11:40:01 AM
By the way, I do have livestock "skin in the game" and am a Wildlife Biologist."
:tup: For those of us who know who you are :tup: Well said!!!
So in order to make the West side'ers that worry about their carbon footprint :chuckle: instead of burning all that fossil fuel to come over here to HEAR them, they NEED their own local ones!! IMHO!
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 10, 2014, 03:13:42 PM
"Mr. Wallace:
I wanted to acknowledge that I received your email.
As of this afternoon, the Ruby Creek female wolf has not been captured. Upon capture, there are plans to have her 'fixed' in a manner that she will not be able to breed.
I'll provide more details after I connect with our carnivore staff lead; and will email a more complete response to you early next week.
Have a good weekend-
Nate Pamplin, Assistant Director
Wildlife Program
WDFW"
I'm glad he got back to me and that they do have plans to spay her. I wasn't aware she hadn't been caught yet.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on October 10, 2014, 03:28:38 PM
Post by: buckfvr on October 10, 2014, 04:23:22 PM
Post by: mfswallace on October 10, 2014, 09:08:24 PM
Suggest DNA sampling as well to determine her origin................
And collar to track her once she is released, I mean escapes :chuckle:
Post by: Humptulips on October 11, 2014, 09:42:53 PM
Post by: Humptulips on October 11, 2014, 09:47:24 PM
Senator Brian Dansel spoke at the end of the meeting and chewed WDFW's a??. He said he is going to introduce legislation to move game management to the County and not the State. He got a standing O for that one. He said it will bring more money to the Counties and will benefit the wildlife.
Unfortunately for the good senator state land belongs to the state and federal land belongs to the Fed. Or put another way, those lands belong to a heck of a lot more people than Stevens County.
Whose land wildlife is on is irrelevant. Wildlife does not belong to the landowner, It belongs to the people and I see no reason a county couldn't manage it for the people as well as the state.
Post by: villageidiot on October 11, 2014, 10:11:05 PM
Senator Brian Dansel spoke at the end of the meeting and chewed WDFW's a??. He said he is going to introduce legislation to move game management to the County and not the State. He got a standing O for that one. He said it will bring more money to the Counties and will benefit the wildlife.
Unfortunately for the good senator state land belongs to the state and federal land belongs to the Fed. Or put another way, those lands belong to a heck of a lot more people than Stevens County.
Whose land wildlife is on is irrelevant. Wildlife does not belong to the landowner, It belongs to the people and I see no reason a county couldn't manage it for the people as well as the state.
The state passed a law I believe back in the 70s that stole the wildlife from the landowner with no compensation. So a Washington rancher raises dozens of deer on his property feeding them his green alfalfa right in the field all summer, the does breed on his place, spend the winter on his place eating bitter rush on his hills then give birth to fawns on his place. The rancher kills the coyotes that prey on the deer. If the rancher wants to kill one of his deer he has to buy a license and shoot it only when the state says he can and this is not free but costs him money for permission from the state to kill one his own animals. The rancher would love to kill one of those big Miley bucks that come down in November but never seems to get drawn so continues to allow other lucky hunters to hunt on his place for free. The state never even says thank you.
This is a true story for every rancher in Washington state. Wildlife Theft by the State of Washington.
Post by: Humptulips on October 11, 2014, 11:15:24 PM
One thing for sure The State was managing wildlife long before the 70s and that in its self implies ownership.
Post by: timberfaller on October 22, 2014, 12:58:10 PM
http://definitions.uslegal.com/p/public-trust-doctrine/ (http://definitions.uslegal.com/p/public-trust-doctrine/)
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 22, 2014, 01:05:01 PM
http://politicswildlife.blogspot.com/2010/11/who-does-wildlife-belong-to-public.html (http://politicswildlife.blogspot.com/2010/11/who-does-wildlife-belong-to-public.html)