Post by: leon grey on October 22, 2014, 02:27:54 PM
Post by: Woodchuck on October 22, 2014, 02:38:02 PM
Post by: Skillet on October 22, 2014, 03:00:36 PM
Post by: leon grey on October 22, 2014, 03:02:53 PM
Post by: leon grey on October 22, 2014, 03:18:25 PM
Post by: Woodchuck on October 22, 2014, 03:25:05 PM
Post by: Skillet on October 22, 2014, 03:28:57 PM
There's a LOT of guys on here that go a lot longer than you have before connecting - keep at it and make sure you're hunting the elk where they are, not where they should be.
Post by: boneaddict on October 22, 2014, 03:36:06 PM
Post by: CP on October 22, 2014, 03:46:00 PM
Post by: Jonathan_S on October 22, 2014, 03:55:46 PM
Bone, do you think that there should be a "Primitive Weapons" season?
Here's my position on this topic for anyone interested.
If someone wants to deliberately use antiquated technology, they obviously do it for one or more of a few reasons. i.e. they are more comfortable with it or they enjoy the challenge. These seem to be the more prevalent reasons. It doesn't really give one the right to ask for their own season. WDFW (in all it's infamy) says, "here are the seasons and legal methods..." and then somebody who uses their longbow can't kill anything and complains that the compounders are getting all the deer and shortening their seasons. Ditto muzzleloaders.
I can't think of any other endeavor in the world where people limit their capabilities deliberately and then bemoan their disadvantaged experience. Golfers don't use wooden clubs and say "hey this shouldn't be a Par 3! Back in the old days, it was a Par 6 but these guys with their allow drivers ruined that for me"
I am certainly not pointing anyone out specifically but I just wanted your opinion since I figured it wouldn't come across as rabid.
Post by: Skillet on October 22, 2014, 04:02:40 PM
I'm with you skillet. Cast bullets, powder horn, exposed cap. 20 pound hawg rifle. Folks will eventually out primitive their seasons, though they will point blame everywhere else. Same with archery.Well, I'm not hard core enough to hunt with the powder horn... taken to sneaking the speedloaders into my fringed leather possibles bag :chuckle:
But I know what you're saying.
I can't think of any other endeavor in the world where people limit their capabilities deliberately and then bemoan their disadvantaged experience.
Don't hang out much at the Mariner's games, do ya? :chuckle:
Post by: boneaddict on October 22, 2014, 04:24:24 PM
Post by: Jonathan_S on October 22, 2014, 04:29:09 PM
That's a big ole debate I suppose Jonathan, even in my head. I don't want to subdivide groups up any more than possible, yet I don't think I am blind to think we are out technologing our quarry to death. There is nothing primitive about todays bows or the modern muzzleloader. Touchy though. Say something and holy moly :yike: Elitist pig comes out. It is only a matter of time though.
I hear you. It's a flammable topic for certain.
I'm with you skillet. Cast bullets, powder horn, exposed cap. 20 pound hawg rifle. Folks will eventually out primitive their seasons, though they will point blame everywhere else. Same with archery.Well, I'm not hard core enough to hunt with the powder horn... taken to sneaking the speedloaders into my fringed leather possibles bag :chuckle:
But I know what you're saying.I can't think of any other endeavor in the world where people limit their capabilities deliberately and then bemoan their disadvantaged experience.
Don't hang out much at the Mariner's games, do ya? :chuckle:
That's funny right there! The M's would definitely fit that description.
Post by: Soady on October 22, 2014, 10:29:31 PM
I have hunted with both primitive and modern inline muzzys. Primitives included the long plains Lyman's, the shorter Hawken carbine and the modern thumbhole Knight inline. Never once have I blamed the weapon I chose for my short comings much less felt I should dictate how or which weapon of choice others should use.
In addition I have shot many years of rendezvous when I first got into muzzleloading and I never dictated what weapon of choice others should use be 36 cal or 69 cal. The success ratio belongs in the hand of the hunter or shooter to become proficient to hone those skills and not blame our shortcomings or dictate which weapon is at fault for those shortcomings.
In my view I feel if the powder goes down the front followed by the bullet, the cap is exposed, and the sights are open, the rest is up to me as a hunter, shooter as I apply my skills.
The muzzleloader be it primitive or modern inline provides me with one choice, "one shot" the rest falls on my shoulders to be skilled enough to to utilize that one shot.
A choice I make willingly, absent of dictating what others should or should not do or which weapon to use. It is my choice to hunt in this manner using my weapon of choice as outlined in the regulations be it primitive or modern inline muzzleloader.
Post by: RG on October 23, 2014, 01:15:07 AM
Post by: C-Money on October 23, 2014, 05:52:59 AM
Post by: oneshot12 on October 23, 2014, 07:43:19 AM
Post by: leon grey on October 23, 2014, 07:47:01 AM
Post by: RG on October 23, 2014, 09:31:15 AM
thats why i do it i like the chalenge of black powder hunting i apolgize to inline hunters if thats what they want to use i just aways liked the old ways
What are you apologizing for? There's a lot to be said for being a little "old school". It isn't necessary to try to keep up with "bigger, faster, shinier, more expensive" unless that's what turns your crank in which case more power to you. Enjoy the outdoors, do it your own way, and never apologize for that. There's room for everybody. And to the OP, you aren't alone, if you read the success rate stats only a couple people out of a hundred ever kill anything anyway. Take the little woman to a nice resort before hunting season, thank her for her patience, do your own laundry and dishes when you come home, she'll understand.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on October 23, 2014, 10:11:18 AM
Post by: oneshot12 on October 23, 2014, 11:38:53 AM
What are you apologizing for? There's a lot to be said for bring a little "old school". It isn't necessary to try to keep up with "bigger, faster, shinier, more expensive" unless that's what turns your crank in which case more pier to you. Enjoy the outdoors, do it your own way, and never apologize for that. There's room for everybody. And to the OP, you aren't alone, if you read the success rate stats only a couple people our of a hundred ever kill anything anyway. Take the little woman to a nice resort before hunting season, thank her for her patience, do your own laundry and dishes when you come home, she'll understand.
[/quote] :tup: I got to say your 100 % correct RG plenty of room for everyone
Post by: Sabotloader on October 23, 2014, 12:12:20 PM
thats why i do it i like the chalenge of black powder hunting i apolgize to inline hunters if thats what they want to use i just aways liked the old ways
When you get right down to it with the current Washington restrictions - they really is not that much difference in an inline and newer sidelock. If comparing a flit lock to a inline even them there is a marginal difference
This my favorite Western Inline
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv130%2Fsabotloader%2FKnight%2520Ultra-Lite%2FIMG_2236.jpg&hash=bc90708ba380df434498f7c117fc85f75bcb578e) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sabotloader/media/Knight%20Ultra-Lite/IMG_2236.jpg.html)
And with the restrictions during ML season it relly is not more effective than this Renegade
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv130%2Fsabotloader%2FArchive%2FP1010006-1.jpg&hash=f0e89aba034d00b87fed498ee8217ca20cf310c5) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sabotloader/media/Archive/P1010006-1.jpg.html)
Nor this old favorite
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv130%2Fsabotloader%2FP1010003.jpg&hash=e97bc3cc44551eee6aa54298e7e57892a55588bd) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sabotloader/media/P1010003.jpg.html)
Post by: MountainDevil54 on October 23, 2014, 12:28:21 PM
Post by: RG on October 23, 2014, 12:34:03 PM
Post by: CP on October 23, 2014, 12:42:50 PM
Post by: Harleysboss on October 23, 2014, 01:20:32 PM
Post by: Sabotloader on October 24, 2014, 09:48:01 AM
I think you'll find that the lock time on that inline is decidedly faster than eityher of thse side locks, assuming they are unmodified.
Not sure of that the new locks I have gotten from TC lately do not have near the swing that the old ones did - they are much quicker. There is still more movement on the new TC lock than the there is with the Knights.
But i do not understand how that is such a big deal anyway in the normal hunting situation - very few shots that I take require a quick lock time - most of the animals and are not moving at all or moving very slowly. Plus my max range with open sights is only 150 yards so lock time is not imperative...
Post by: pat2bear on October 24, 2014, 10:21:40 AM
Post by: Soady on October 25, 2014, 06:28:59 PM
Man am I messed up...my side lock sports a GM fast twist barrel and I shoot real blackpowder (Goex) and load 460grn lead paper patched bullets. Not an inline not traditional Hmmmm.. The cow my son shot this year did not care at all. Oh ya my White rifle shoots the same powder and bullet combo..#11 cap too. We all have to shoot open sights and exposed ignition..we should all be more concerned with the lack of open hunting units that we as a group do not have. Loads from the muzzle have a blast!:yeah:
I feel the same way. It all comes down to the moment we pull the trigger and now we need to unite and pull the trigger on getting some more units opened to muzzleloading.
Post by: busterbrown on November 02, 2014, 02:24:19 PM
Nothing wrong with inline, just like the older, historically guns, real cool to shoot.
ML guys need to stick together to protect what few hunts we have.
Post by: RG on November 02, 2014, 07:45:09 PM
I love Hawkens and Kentucky rifles. Have several of each, shoot only round ball. I usually use my 54 Hawkens for hunting, just love the history, challenge. Killed plenty of critters with these guns the last 25 years. Round ball, especially 54 or larger, get the job done, as long as you get close and make the shot count.
Nothing wrong with inline, just like the older, historically guns, real cool to shoot.
ML guys need to stick together to protect what few hunts we have.
.54 round ball has taken 3 elk and quite a few mule deer for me. Nothing has made it 50 yards after the shot. The pure lead ball flattens out like a quarter.
Nothing wrong with inlines but if you read the history of the fur trade those guys sure didn't need them. They travelled back and forth across the Rockies taking every kind of game there was. I figure it should be good enough for me too then.
Post by: Sabotloader on November 03, 2014, 04:01:08 PM
I love Hawkens and Kentucky rifles. Have several of each, shoot only round ball. I usually use my 54 Hawkens for hunting, just love the history, challenge. Killed plenty of critters with these guns the last 25 years. Round ball, especially 54 or larger, get the job done, as long as you get close and make the shot count.
Nothing wrong with inline, just like the older, historically guns, real cool to shoot.
ML guys need to stick together to protect what few hunts we have.
RG, you are absolutely correct, but I would be willing to bet the farm that if modern inlines were available in the 1860's you would have seen a huge defection from the sidehammers of the time. [/quote]
Quote
.54 round ball has taken 3 elk and quite a few mule deer for me. Nothing has made it 50 yards after the shot. The pure lead ball flattens out like a quarter.
Nothing wrong with inlines but if you read the history of the fur trade those guys sure didn't need them. They travelled back and forth across the Rockies taking every kind of game there was. I figure it should be good enough for me too then.
Post by: oneshot12 on November 04, 2014, 11:25:51 AM
Post by: Skillet on November 04, 2014, 11:43:17 AM
PBR will take a lot of critters down . still only use 90 grns 3 f in my 54. never had worries about much more then 100 yard shot most were with in less the 40 yards, but have taken a couple long shots with the PBR just was real sure and marked the target well before letting the hammer fall . they work pretty darn good
PBR has taken me down a time or two...
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSdEsmSEZSbq9KdPYJY7Fr6nzjbhIqJY3cwHe6F1qoR1H_SQNdetlJxakG-)
But I believe you meant PRB for Patched Round Ball, yes :tup:
Post by: oneshot12 on November 05, 2014, 05:09:13 AM
yes PATCHED ROUND BALL ( PBR ) nice shot pard nice shot indeed