sidelocks

[leon grey]

it seems that evryone has muzzeloaders that are just like a  boltaction rifle the whole reason was to use side lock open hawken style rifles now its a waste of time to even try any more 5 years in a row havent got a cow anything going back to modernfirearms for elk maby its just bad luck or not in the rightplace at the right time

[Woodchuck]

No matter the style of the rifle, they still all have to have an "exposed" primer. 

[Skillet]

I am not getting how somebody else having a bolt on their muzzleloader has anything to do with no elk for you over the last five years   

[leon grey]

same here i have trad 54 and cva 50 hawken style use 777 powder and goex

[leon grey]

nothing thats just my own lazynes or not nowing how to to hunt or whatever idont know what im doing wrong 

[Woodchuck]

Hang in there. It can take a long time to work into a new craft. It will come together for you at some point and all the frustration will seem worth it.

[Skillet]

Don't let it get to you.  I muzzleloader hunt with an old T/C Hawken myself.  Only use loose powder and have tried sabots, but I like the cast boolits the best. 
There's a LOT of guys on here that go a lot longer than you have before connecting - keep at it and make sure you're hunting the elk where they are, not where they should be.

[boneaddict]

I'm with you skillet.   Cast bullets, powder horn, exposed cap.   20 pound hawg rifle.  Folks will eventually out primitive their seasons, though they will point blame everywhere else.   Same with archery.

[CP]

I gave up on the sidelock about 5 years ago.  It just seemed to get a little heavier and harder to lug around every year.

[Jonathan_S]

OP, stick in there.  It's a short season, don't fall into a trap of blaming circumstances and other people.  The MZ success reflect that it is actually a good season relatively speaking.



Bone, do you think that there should be a "Primitive Weapons" season?

Here's my position on this topic for anyone interested.

If someone wants to deliberately use antiquated technology, they obviously do it for one or more of a few reasons.  i.e. they are more comfortable with it or they enjoy the challenge.  These seem to be the more prevalent reasons.  It doesn't really give one the right to ask for their own season.  WDFW (in all it's infamy) says, "here are the seasons and legal methods..." and then somebody who uses their longbow can't kill anything and complains that the compounders are getting all the deer and shortening their seasons.  Ditto muzzleloaders.

I can't think of any other endeavor in the world where people limit their capabilities deliberately and then bemoan their disadvantaged experience.  Golfers don't use wooden clubs and say "hey this shouldn't be a Par 3!  Back in the old days, it was a Par 6 but these guys with their allow drivers ruined that for me"

I am certainly not pointing anyone out specifically but I just wanted your opinion since I figured it wouldn't come across as rabid.

[Skillet]

I'm with you skillet.   Cast bullets, powder horn, exposed cap.   20 pound hawg rifle.  Folks will eventually out primitive their seasons, though they will point blame everywhere else.   Same with archery.

Well, I'm not hard core enough to hunt with the powder horn...  taken to sneaking the speedloaders into my fringed leather possibles bag 
But I know what you're saying.

I can't think of any other endeavor in the world where people limit their capabilities deliberately and then bemoan their disadvantaged experience. 

Don't hang out much at the Mariner's games, do ya? 

[boneaddict]

That's a big ole debate I suppose Jonathan, even in my head.   I don't want to subdivide groups up any more than possible, yet I don't think I am blind to think we are out technologing our quarry to death.   There is nothing primitive about todays bows or the modern muzzleloader.    Touchy though.  Say something and holy moly    Elitist pig comes out.   It is only a matter of time though.

[Jonathan_S]

That's a big ole debate I suppose Jonathan, even in my head.   I don't want to subdivide groups up any more than possible, yet I don't think I am blind to think we are out technologing our quarry to death.   There is nothing primitive about todays bows or the modern muzzleloader.    Touchy though.  Say something and holy moly    Elitist pig comes out.   It is only a matter of time though.

I hear you.  It's a flammable topic for certain.

I'm with you skillet.   Cast bullets, powder horn, exposed cap.   20 pound hawg rifle.  Folks will eventually out primitive their seasons, though they will point blame everywhere else.   Same with archery.

Well, I'm not hard core enough to hunt with the powder horn...  taken to sneaking the speedloaders into my fringed leather possibles bag 
But I know what you're saying.

I can't think of any other endeavor in the world where people limit their capabilities deliberately and then bemoan their disadvantaged experience. 

Don't hang out much at the Mariner's games, do ya? 

That's funny right there!  The M's would definitely fit that description.

[Soady]

If one views the weapon of choice as a tool to harvest game in a humane and expeditious manner within the boundaries of the law why would we blame the tool for our failures or other peoples choices of that tool for our short comings as a hunters?

I have hunted with both primitive and modern inline muzzys. Primitives included the long plains Lyman's, the shorter Hawken carbine and the modern thumbhole Knight inline. Never once have I blamed the weapon I chose for my short comings much less felt I should dictate how or which weapon of choice others should use.

In addition I have shot many years of rendezvous when I first got into muzzleloading and I never dictated what weapon of choice others should use be 36 cal or 69 cal. The success ratio belongs in the hand of the hunter or shooter to become proficient to hone those skills and not blame our shortcomings or dictate which weapon is at fault for those shortcomings.

In my view I feel if the powder goes down the front followed by the bullet, the cap is exposed, and the sights are open, the rest is up to me as a hunter, shooter as I apply my skills.

The muzzleloader be it primitive or modern inline provides me with one choice, "one shot" the rest falls on my shoulders to be skilled enough to to utilize that one shot.
A choice I make willingly, absent of dictating what others should or should not do or which weapon to use. It is my choice to hunt in this manner using my weapon of choice as outlined in the regulations be it primitive or modern inline muzzleloader.

[RG]

I hunt with primitive, either one of two flintlocks I built or with a Lyman Great Plains percussion. I use round balls, load from a pouch and use Goex black powder.  That's my choice and I've never felt handicapped by my choice of weapon.  They've all killed game, elk and deer.  My partners carry inlines. That's their choice. No drama here about what's appropriate. Who cares as long as it's legal and it's used ethically.  Where I get darn irritated is when I see guys taking 200 or 300 yard muzzleloader shots at game and I know they don't have the skills to make a clean kill at that range but they also don't have the self discipline to pass.  Some guys practice and can make the shot, most can't.  Those guys belong in a modern season.