Post by: fordpowerforever on October 24, 2014, 03:16:16 PM
Post by: JBar on October 24, 2014, 03:19:32 PM
Post by: fordpowerforever on October 24, 2014, 03:25:25 PM
State just had this in their last questionaire, seems the data doesn't support even the 2pt restriction. :dunno:
im no biologist so i guess they know better but it sure seems like there would be a lot more quality deer would show up if people couldn't just blast as soon as they seen an inch of horn, and maybe have quality bucks breeding the does instead of some dink have no competition.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on October 24, 2014, 03:27:44 PM
Post by: chester on October 24, 2014, 03:34:40 PM
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Post by: Boss .300 winmag on October 24, 2014, 03:35:05 PM
You need to just think about how hard it is to find blacktail bucks ...Not that easy ..think about how many you never see because we live in a brush pile . I think 2 pt restriction is plenty good enough for blacktail :twocents: :tup:
Some units are hurting, SAUK, STILLAGUMISH,NOOKSACK, plus others I can imagine. I know you have a good area but others are way low on population. :bash:
Atleast stop doe, and late season tags. Even with gated roads and stuff these deer are taken a beating in these units . My thought is way to many preditors, plus poaching. :twocents:
Post by: fordpowerforever on October 24, 2014, 03:36:37 PM
You need to just think about how hard it is to find blacktail bucks ...Not that easy ..think about how many you never see because we live in a brush pile . I think 2 pt restriction is plenty good enough for blacktail :twocents: :tup:
i would be plenty fine for 2pt also, i just think a place for people that want the challenge of chasing mature blacktails with a little but better odds would be cool. I know how hard it is to find, them 19 years for me and i still havent got a 3 point yet. and i pass up a lot of smaller bucks every year. trying my best to get the best chance possible at a big buck. I have just seen from my dads hunting lease how well the buck population grows when the spikes and small two points arent taken out every year.
Post by: fordpowerforever on October 24, 2014, 03:39:20 PM
Hold off the trigger when you see the little ones. Big bucks are all over the west side. You just have to find them.
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your area has much better buck quality then here, i have passed up many spikes and two points, i have passed a spike everyday ive hunted in modern this year, and one two point, about 4 years ago i knew i had to stop shooting small ones to get the big one...
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on October 24, 2014, 03:54:10 PM
There are deer in those units you have mentioned that you will never see until late season ..that's why I am a bowhunter :dunno: :chuckle: Minus the Nooksack ..that is hunted non stop from tribal hunting ..No sense in trying to find a deer there and there are poachers too ..I better not just pick on my tribal friends !You need to just think about how hard it is to find blacktail bucks ...Not that easy ..think about how many you never see because we live in a brush pile . I think 2 pt restriction is plenty good enough for blacktail :twocents: :tup:
Some units are hurting, SAUK, STILLAGUMISH,NOOKSACK, plus others I can imagine. I know you have a good area but others are way low on population. :bash:
Atleast stop doe, and late season tags. Even with gated roads and stuff these deer are taken a beating in these units . My thought is way to many preditors, plus poaching. :twocents:
Post by: chester on October 24, 2014, 04:03:46 PM
Btw what's my area for BT ? I've hunted them from lake Stevens to the Columbia river along with the peninsula. There is big bucks all over. Just have to be lucky enough to catch them making a mistake. The odds are very much in their favor. It's not something more restrictions are going to change.
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Post by: 334OKH on October 24, 2014, 04:16:20 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on October 24, 2014, 04:33:01 PM
When you talk of meat hunters wanting to shoot whatever is legal. I think even the meat hunters would like a mature buck that weighs so much more than a spike or immature 3 point. It takes education and proving this to them. I remember very well how upset I was when the state went to Bull Elk restrictions. I was 18 or so at the time and just didn't get it. Now look at the Elk we are seeing every year. I also feel we need to create some better habitat. Areas where logging has ceased has ruined the deer population as well. That's what I see in the areas I hunt.You nailed that one ( where logging has ceased) LOGGING MEANS DEER :tup:
Post by: finnman on October 24, 2014, 04:40:39 PM
Makes no sense to me, and believe me, I know not everything is fair in life.
If it were Eastern and Central Washington, like the Palouse and other farming areas, absolutely use them.
Post by: mtman on October 24, 2014, 07:08:01 PM
Post by: dreamunelk on October 24, 2014, 07:37:46 PM
Post by: fordpowerforever on October 24, 2014, 07:54:06 PM
I've passed 8 deer this year. And got a glimpse of one really nice buck I watched all summer on opening morning. I left him alone since then and I'm going to try again tomorrow to see if his I. Q. Had lowered. They aren't dumb. Just because they aren't standing out in the open doesn't mean they aren't there.
Btw what's my area for BT ? I've hunted them from lake Stevens to the Columbia river along with the peninsula. There is big bucks all over. Just have to be lucky enough to catch them making a mistake. The odds are very much in their favor. It's not something more restrictions are going to change.
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Chester, no offense i meant your area listed. i know there is big bucks all over, i have seen two nice bucks this year, one just last sundaym i hoping the same thing, that he is starting to dumb up a bit.
Back on topic with everyone, im just thinking it would be nice to hunt a unit knowing your odds a little better if your willing to do the work. my dad has been hunting blacktails for 50+ years and has killed a handfuls of decent bucks in his time and missed opportunities (back in the 2x7 power days) on a few. But only one wall hanger, but on here you will see a lot more bucks coming from more inland areas that people say are decent BT bucks but around here would be large and something to be very proud of. The reports for our area are down and i dont want to start a debate about but it says in the olympic peninsula units the local tribes said they would lower the anterless killing and i recently talked to a lifetime indian friend, avid hunter, and now training to be a wildlife officier for the tribe and he had heard nothing about it. We have no anterless tags offered over here due to our population so maybe a point restriction will at least give the deer a boost in numbers to get back on the rebound...then in turn start to produce higher number of quality bucks.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on October 25, 2014, 07:07:59 PM
Post by: Hunterman on October 25, 2014, 07:31:26 PM
Hunterman(Tony)
Post by: Jonathan_S on October 25, 2014, 07:53:57 PM
Just what we need..More restrictions in this state. Leave it as it is, as far as I'm concerned the state can remove ALL the point restrictions state wide for deer and elk.
Hunterman(Tony)
Are you serious?
:o you might be in denial about the amount of hunters we have in this state :dunno:
I'm not saying that all APRs are good but what you suggest would wreck virtually every elk herd and mule deer herd.
Post by: lokidog on October 25, 2014, 07:55:17 PM
Point restrictions make sense on the OP. Black tails have evolved to have small antlers for a reason. That is why many never get bigger than a 2 point.
So put a 3 point restriction on them? Huh??
I wouldn't mind seeing no spikes allowed, but that is as far as I would go. Here a 2 1/2 year old fork has, on average, ten more pounds of meat than a 1 1/2 year old spike.
Post by: Jonathan_S on October 25, 2014, 08:13:35 PM
A restriction of 4 pt on whitetail or a 3 pt on muleteer is most often preventing bucks from being harvested until they are at least 1.5 years old and some not until they're 2.5. I agree with Loki that a 2 pt minimum would be fine.
Post by: billythekidrock on October 25, 2014, 08:16:21 PM
There are plenty of big bucks out there, just not enough areas that are easy to hunt.
Post by: MountainWalk on October 25, 2014, 08:18:53 PM
Post by: lokidog on October 25, 2014, 08:25:44 PM
:yeah: That's the thing
A restriction of 4 pt on whitetail or a 3 pt on muleteer is most often preventing bucks from being harvested until they are at least 1.5 years old and some not until they're 2.5. I agree with Loki that a 2 pt minimum would be fine.
No "bucks" are being harvested at less than 1.5 years, they would be antlerless in their first year.
BTKR, I would have no problems with spikes for youth, senior, or disabled.
Post by: billythekidrock on October 25, 2014, 08:28:57 PM
If you think the OP lacks big bucks, your not looking hard enough. Blacktails are harder to kill than mulies and WT"s by natures design. Just because your seeing lots of spikes is no reason to hinder everyone else. Theres a reason why people see lots of spikes and forks and not fours. You think a point change will cause mature deer to stand about in the open to be shot up?
Exactly. And once the first year of restrictions is over the success rate will be the same or lower.
Post by: Jonathan_S on October 25, 2014, 08:34:22 PM
:yeah: That's the thing
A restriction of 4 pt on whitetail or a 3 pt on muleteer is most often preventing bucks from being harvested until they are at least 1.5 years old and some not until they're 2.5. I agree with Loki that a 2 pt minimum would be fine.
No "bucks" are being harvested at less than 1.5 years, they would be antlerless in their first year.
BTKR, I would have no problems with spikes for youth, senior, or disabled.
:chuckle: good catch, I don't know why I typed 1.5/2.5 instead of 2.5/3.5
Post by: actionshooter on October 25, 2014, 08:37:21 PM
The only thing point restrictions would do on the west side is make a bunch of hunters quit because they never see anything but spikes and forkys.
Post by: Jonathan_S on October 25, 2014, 08:38:29 PM
:yeah: That's the thing
A restriction of 4 pt on whitetail or a 3 pt on muleteer is most often preventing bucks from being harvested until they are at least 1.5 years old and some not until they're 2.5. I agree with Loki that a 2 pt minimum would be fine.
No "bucks" are being harvested at less than 1.5 years, they would be antlerless in their first year.
BTKR, I would have no problems with spikes for youth, senior, or disabled.
Oops, yeah that's what I meant. I meant 2.5/3.5
Post by: lokidog on October 25, 2014, 08:44:06 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on October 25, 2014, 08:45:00 PM
Blacktail are different than our other deer, just because you don't see the big guys doesn't mean they aren't there.
The only thing point restrictions would do on the west side is make a bunch of hunters quit because they never see anything but spikes and forkys.
:yeah:
Post by: MountainWalk on October 25, 2014, 09:19:03 PM
Post by: Mike450r on October 25, 2014, 09:25:34 PM
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on October 25, 2014, 09:35:55 PM
Your comparison of your Dads lease area, is not really apples to apples because in addition to self imposed point restrictions, they are probably harvesting less deer period due to less pressure. Even bucks that are older age class are getting a pass simply because they are not getting hunted as hard.
For the record I am against any reduction in opportunity, until a reasonable effort is made to control PREDATORS and improve habitat. That said, if you want to have more bucks and bigger bucks, close the season tomorrow and keep it that way for few years and see what happens. Buck escapement is what gives you your older age class bucks and in the next 9 days ( including late buck ) many of the 2.5 and 3.5 age class will hit dirt.
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on October 25, 2014, 10:07:01 PM
You need to just think about how hard it is to find blacktail bucks ...Not that easy ..think about how many you never see because we live in a brush pile . I think 2 pt restriction is plenty good enough for blacktail :twocents: :tup:
i would be plenty fine for 2pt also, i just think a place for people that want the challenge of chasing mature blacktails with a little but better odds would be cool. I know how hard it is to find, them 19 years for me and i still havent got a 3 point yet. and i pass up a lot of smaller bucks every year. trying my best to get the best chance possible at a big buck. I have just seen from my dads hunting lease how well the buck population grows when the spikes and small two points arent taken out every year.
Finding a big blaktail is already a challenge. You seem to want to take the challenge out of the equation and make it easier.
Post by: Turner89 on October 26, 2014, 04:27:00 PM
If you think the OP lacks big bucks, your not looking hard enough. Blacktails are harder to kill than mulies and WT"s by natures design. Just because your seeing lots of spikes is no reason to hinder everyone else. Theres a reason why people see lots of spikes and forks and not fours. You think a point change will cause mature deer to stand about in the open to be shot up?I don't think point restrictions on blacktail will make any difference on success rates of bigger bucks. You may have more bigger bucks out there as a result, but they won't be taken any easier than you can today. They turn into loners the older they get, and disappear for the most part during most the year. I rarely see big mature bucks in the woods, until last week of October- December. I've been hunting them for 20+ years in 448, and haven't noticed any real decline in deer #'s. Some years are better than others, but I feel that has more to do with a lack of logging than predators, or over hunting.
Exactly. And once the first year of restrictions is over the success rate will be the same or lower.
Point restrictions on blacktail IMO would do absolutely nothing, but possibly frustrate new hunters to the point of giving up.