Hunting Washington Forum

Other Hunting => Bird Dogs => Topic started by: Commando on October 26, 2014, 02:24:49 PM

Title: help me out.
Post by: Commando on October 26, 2014, 02:24:49 PM: I need some advice here. Went out duck hunting this morning and dropped one. This was the pups first hunt. Sent him out to get the bird and all the way up to the bird looked awesome. As soon as he got within reach of the duck he kind of nosed it and pretty much went f u I'm got gonna pick this thing up. I did everything g I could to try and get him. To do the retrieve but nothing worked. He gets birds routinely in training so he is not new to birds. Any advice on how to get my pup to pick up birds in while hunting? Or am I just over reacting since he is still a pup and it was his first hunt so just give him time and he will come around?
Title: Re: help me out.
Post by: ghosthunter on October 26, 2014, 02:54:36 PM: age of pup?

Ducks smell different. I would go out with him ,pick bird up and toss it around for him making it fun and all excited. Tease him with it and dont take it away right away.

Depending on age.
Title: Re: help me out.
Post by: Commando on October 26, 2014, 03:26:36 PM: He is almost a tr old. Tgsfs ehst I was goj g to go but the bird was a little to deep for me to wade out and get... Looks like next time km going swimming
Title: Re: help me out.
Post by: tbotts on October 26, 2014, 04:13:02 PM: I think ghost hunter nailed it. It worked for my lab.
Title: Re: help me out.
Post by: Birdguy on October 28, 2014, 08:18:16 PM: Super confidence in swimming will help and if you have not had him retieving ducks there is a good chance he will not like it. I have had a couple dogs that had no interest in ducks but went absolutle crazy for upland birds. I also had a dog that would retrieve ducks in the yard but until he had to swim distances daily for a while he did not like the duck in his mouth while swimming. Bumpers were not the same as ducks while swimming, I think the feathers felt differnet in his mouth. After some competition swiming with the other dogs for all sorts of objects he came around. Good luck.
Title: Re: help me out.
Post by: pens fan on October 28, 2014, 08:49:16 PM: My dog Mace hates ducks. Last season he retrieved three to the boat. I set them on the back seat. Later on they were gone. I found them laying next to the boat. I put them back. Later on i watched him pick them up, then LEAVE the boat and set them on the shore.
My new pup is not getting any upland training birds so she gets used to that ducky smell.
Title: Re: help me out.
Post by: GoBeavs85 on October 28, 2014, 09:45:19 PM: Quote from: pens fan on October 28, 2014, 08:49:16 PM
My dog Mace hates ducks. Last season he retrieved three to the boat. I set them on the back seat. Later on they were gone. I found them laying next to the boat. I put them back. Later on i watched him pick them up, then LEAVE the boat and set them on the shore.
My new pup is not getting any upland training birds so she gets used to that ducky smell.

A little frustrating maybe but that's really pretty funny!
Title: Re: help me out.
Post by: AspenBud on October 29, 2014, 07:24:57 AM: If all else fails find a reputable trainer and have the dog force fetched.
Title: Re: help me out.
Post by: Waldo84 on October 29, 2014, 08:19:34 AM: X 2 on getting him force fetched by a pro that you trust. The sooner the better.
Title: Re: help me out.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on October 29, 2014, 08:20:44 AM: Folks think all dogs are born to do this and that....whatever their breed description says they are made to do. What it really means is that they'll likely be better at doing what they are bred to do if the big 200+lb dummy standing next to the puppy introduces those things to the puppy at the right time, in the right way it might bring out their desire and attributes which are in the dogs genes.

Shooting over puppies, shooting around puppies, taking dogs to gun ranges, going out in the woods and shooting at targets with the puppy in the car and hunting around puppies is the #1 thing which will ruin the pup the fastest.

Like children, they need to be taught the proper response to each situation. with shooting, quite simply a shot needs to mean birds. period. When a pup has had birds a bit, shown some wildness for them, high interest it's about time to pop a round off a long distance from pup and have someone toss a live bird on the ground in front of pup. Rinse, wash and repeat twice a day for a week or two carefully closing the distance and giving pup a live bird with each shot.

Take a pup hunting, swims out, doesn't know the rules, doesn't get why a warm duck(which pup has never had in water probably) is where the splash was at which should have been a white plastic bumper. compound issues, Dad is standing there telling pup to pick up the white plastic bumper which isn't sitting out in the pond? who is the dummy here?
Title: Re: help me out.
Post by: Don Fischer on October 29, 2014, 08:25:54 AM: If you want your dog to fetch ducks, the final step in training is to fetch a dead duck. Someone mentioned going out with the dog but you said the water was to deep. How deep is the water in your backyard! A dog that won't fetch a bird on dry land will not fetch one on the water.
Title: Re: help me out.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on October 29, 2014, 10:00:07 AM: force fetch is the simple solution to those who have a standard expectation that a retriever bring a bird back to hand every time, without exception in any condition.

If you are ok with the dog picking up a bird when the dog wants to pick up a bird, dropping them on the ground and not being a reliable retriever you don't have to force fetch. You can get a retrieve with happy treats and fun time.

Force fetch eliminates a retrievers "complusion" to retrieve replacing it as a "requirement".
Title: Re: help me out.
Post by: Commando on October 29, 2014, 10:38:57 AM: I thought i had force fetched him myself but i guess i have not. he will pick up everything else i send him to get. i am not going to send him to a pro becuse i cant afford it. this was his first warm bird as well besides the live pigeons he gets during training, i couldnt get my hands on live ducks for flyers. all the other times in training they have been dead training birds my friends and local training group had. we go out and train in the water 2 or three times a week so he is no stranger to retrieving in water. i guess i will re visit force fetch and the next time we go out if its to deep for me to wade ill go swimming.
Title: Re: help me out.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on October 29, 2014, 12:33:02 PM: Quote from: Commando on October 29, 2014, 10:38:57 AM
I thought i had force fetched him myself but i guess i have not. he will pick up everything else i send him to get. i am not going to send him to a pro becuse i cant afford it. this was his first warm bird as well besides the live pigeons he gets during training, i couldnt get my hands on live ducks for flyers. all the other times in training they have been dead training birds my friends and local training group had. we go out and train in the water 2 or three times a week so he is no stranger to retrieving in water. i guess i will re visit force fetch and the next time we go out if its to deep for me to wade ill go swimming.

At my house, part of FF will be working with warm freshly killed birds. Transition to live completely wing and foot shackled birds. Start with pigeons in this manner. Proofing FF should include a wing shackled walking pigeon then duck. Once successful on the ground 100% on live walking birds one can move to the water. Starting with 100% shackled ducks.(wings and feet) once reliable, remove feet shackles. Let the dogs learn a duck will move and keep moving. Once this is reliable, take off the wing shackles and put on feet shackles to teach a diving duck. Once all is fun with the diver, 100% unshackled ducks. More wing the better. Allow them to eventually get into heavy cover. this all should be great fun compared to the time on the table and doing walking fetch, stick fetch and ladder drills prior to working any birds.
Title: Re: help me out.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on October 29, 2014, 12:36:44 PM: And to make you think about it.. The first time I had a pheasant shot live for my dog at least 6 months after FF was complete and transition training was well under way he wouldn't pick it up. I did not ever introduce a live pheasant to him and he looked at it and went the other way.

now, with that being said, he had been forced fetched and had the tools to properly deal with the situation. A couple quick fun birds, short throws and introduction to a live bird had the situation remedied in a matter of minutes.
Title: Re: help me out.
Post by: Commando on October 29, 2014, 06:53:22 PM: Thanks for that advice happy. The program I'm following doesn't show that with the ducks so I totally spaced shackeling a live duck and training that way in the water. I will get in Craig's list and see if I can get a duck or two this weekend. Does anyone know where I could get so.e ducks on the west side besides craigslist?
Title: Re: help me out.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on October 30, 2014, 08:23:06 AM: Quote from: Commando on October 29, 2014, 06:53:22 PM
Thanks for that advice happy. The program I'm following doesn't show that with the ducks so I totally spaced shackeling a live duck and training that way in the water. I will get in Craig's list and see if I can get a duck or two this weekend. Does anyone know where I could get so.e ducks on the west side besides craigslist?

I have a few. In Fall City.
Title: Re: help me out.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on October 30, 2014, 08:43:32 AM: Quote from: Commando on October 29, 2014, 06:53:22 PM
Thanks for that advice happy. The program I'm following doesn't show that with the ducks so I totally spaced shackeling a live duck and training that way in the water.

That is the main reason learning to train from videos is tough. There are many moving pieces, parts and reactions a dog can have which are impossible to cover in a video. Always good to invest some time with a pro or someone with a lot of experience.
Title: Re: help me out.
Post by: Commando on October 30, 2014, 03:00:27 PM: Happy would it be possible to buy some ducks from you?
Title: Re: help me out.
Post by: Don Fischer on October 30, 2014, 05:35:43 PM: Quote from: Commando on October 29, 2014, 10:38:57 AM
I thought i had force fetched him myself but i guess i have not. he will pick up everything else i send him to get. i am not going to send him to a pro becuse i cant afford it. this was his first warm bird as well besides the live pigeons he gets during training, i couldnt get my hands on live ducks for flyers. all the other times in training they have been dead training birds my friends and local training group had. we go out and train in the water 2 or three times a week so he is no stranger to retrieving in water. i guess i will re visit force fetch and the next time we go out if its to deep for me to wade ill go swimming.

There's four stage's to force fetch. 1st step, starting out, you use a wooden dowel. You go completely through it . 2nd step use a frozen bird. Start all over at the beginning and go to the end. 3rd step is a fresh killed bird. Start over from the beginning and go to the end. 4th step is take the dog outside on the ground and start over ending with a dead bird. 4th step will go really quick if you have done the first three properly.
Title: Re: help me out.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on October 31, 2014, 08:32:11 AM: I can spare one. You might try to find the folks who do the bird auction near you. I'm gone all weekend. Can meet anytime in the evening next week if you don't come up with something by then. I'd be happy to check out your pup and give you a pointer or two.
Title: Re: help me out.
Post by: Commando on October 31, 2014, 11:13:17 AM: thanks happy i really appreciate that. are you busy next friday or the weekend? if not whatever day works best for you next week will be great
Title: Re: help me out.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on November 03, 2014, 09:56:04 AM: Quote from: Commando on October 31, 2014, 11:13:17 AM
thanks happy i really appreciate that. are you busy next friday or the weekend? if not whatever day works best for you next week will be great

my weekends are pretty full for the next few weeks. Might be easiest if you can track down something closer to home. Keep an eye on craigslist.
Title: Re: help me out.
Post by: Commando on November 03, 2014, 07:23:55 PM: Sounds good. Thanks for the help. Stupid question though. The duck ca be anyone off craiglist right? It doesn't need to be a certain kind?
Title: Re: help me out.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on November 04, 2014, 07:45:51 AM: for the most part. You'll want to try to avoid the big meat ducks like muscovy's or runners unless they are very young and small. Not good ducks for intro-"duck"-sions.. lol