Post by: sakoshooter on November 12, 2014, 04:59:32 PM
If I die, my wife has to immediately take all of my guns and give them to a licensed dealer. For her to claim possession of my guns, even in this “community property” state, would be an “unlawful transfer” under this new law. The dealer would run a background check on her to see whether or not she can legally possess them, and charge her however much they want to for their service. Then the dealer must retain possession of the guns, charging however much they want to for their daily storage fees, until probate is done and my wife legally owns the guns. And if she didn’t pass the background check, she can’t “possess” the guns and sell them, she has to forfeit them to the dealer who gets to sell them and keep the money. It’s even worse if you die with no will. And there is a ‘catch 22’ on the whole thing. If I die, my wife can’t legally “possess” the guns to get them to the dealer to surrender them and ask for a background check and all that.
This has nothing to do with gun sales and everything to do with gun registration and eventual confiscation. This “initiative of the people” was actually an “initiative of five rich guys who don’t like guns” (except for the ones they and their security details carry): Michael Bloomberg, Bill Gates, Paul Allen, Steve Ballmer, and Nick Hanauer. They spent more than $5 million on this campaign. (They outspent their opponents by more than 8 to 1.) Bloomberg has already tried to pass gun registration and confiscation legislation elsewhere. It didn’t work. This move in Washington is nothing more than a “backdoor” way to create a gun ownership database so that they can come back later and take them away.
Post by: Eli346 on November 12, 2014, 05:06:18 PM
Post by: whackmaster on November 12, 2014, 05:09:00 PM
Post by: addicted2hunting on November 12, 2014, 05:17:09 PM
Post by: jrebel on November 12, 2014, 05:18:38 PM
Post by: npaull on November 12, 2014, 05:23:19 PM
Post by: 7mmfan on November 12, 2014, 06:02:07 PM
If I die they were my wife's guns in the first place.
:yeah:
Post by: trophyhunt on November 12, 2014, 06:12:44 PM
Post by: hoyt5199 on November 12, 2014, 06:28:28 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on November 12, 2014, 06:35:16 PM
Sounds like I moved out of that Liberal retarded state just in time.... :yeah:i have to work at least 10 more years in this liberal quagmire, then I'm gone! I just hope Idaho stays republican, I've heard Montana is getting like California when it comes to politics, I hope that is BS.
Post by: BAR C3 on November 12, 2014, 06:40:32 PM
It is not BS! And I'm right behind you, and prefer Montana, but by then, it will be were we are now or worse.Sounds like I moved out of that Liberal retarded state just in time.... :yeah:i have to work at least 10 more years in this liberal quagmire, then I'm gone! I just hope Idaho stays republican, I've heard Montana is getting like California when it comes to politics, I hope that is BS.
Post by: xd2005 on November 12, 2014, 06:43:55 PM
Post by: csaaphill on November 12, 2014, 06:50:57 PM
Post by: Smokepole on November 12, 2014, 06:52:22 PM
The internet should be controlled. Guns aren't the problem. :twocents:
Post by: csaaphill on November 12, 2014, 07:08:11 PM
from my cold hands i will not comply :mgun::yeah:
Post by: Lucky1 on November 12, 2014, 07:17:16 PM
Post by: 2labs on November 12, 2014, 07:18:59 PM
Bill Gates & his friends are pouring money into this so you won't blame computers and the internet for corrupting the minds of our children. The real smoking gun is Gate's Windows Technology. It has put a curse on our country.
The internet should be controlled. Guns aren't the problem. :twocents:
If Bill and his buddies are so concerned with gun violence and gun control maybe start with the X Box. Call of duty, black ops, etc, etc. another liberal hypocrite!!
Post by: addicted2hunting on November 12, 2014, 07:46:37 PM
If I die they were my wife's guns in the first place.
Perfectly stated!
Post by: tjthebest on November 12, 2014, 07:54:01 PM
I told my kids that I have given them all my guns. I am just using them until I die. They don't even know what guns they "own"
Why even say that when it is still breaking the law? If they are your kids guns, you legally cannot use them. I would just go with whoever is holding the gun is the owner and hope that no one sees a transfer.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on November 12, 2014, 08:03:59 PM
Bill Gates & his friends are pouring money into this so you won't blame computers and the internet for corrupting the minds of our children. The real smoking gun is Gate's Windows Technology. It has put a curse on our country.
The internet should be controlled. Guns aren't the problem. :twocents:
Bill Gates stole the program from Apple, changed it just enough to call it Windows. Apple trademarked their hardware, but never trademarked their software, so Gates stole it! :sry:
Post by: xd2005 on November 12, 2014, 08:10:31 PM
Bill Gates & his friends are pouring money into this so you won't blame computers and the internet for corrupting the minds of our children. The real smoking gun is Gate's Windows Technology. It has put a curse on our country.
The internet should be controlled. Guns aren't the problem. :twocents:
Bill Gates stole the program from Apple, changed it just enough to call it Windows. Apple trademarked their hardware, but never trademarked their software, so Gates stole it! :sry:
Fortunately Jobs was a straight-laced guy that never stole anything...
Post by: Stein on November 12, 2014, 08:38:44 PM
Another thing I was wondering about are the NFA trust owners of firearms. If a trust can own a suppressor, I wonder if it can own firearms?
Post by: Lucky1 on November 12, 2014, 08:42:05 PM
Post by: Stein on November 12, 2014, 08:51:36 PM
What about a business owning a firearm? Today, you could private party sell my business a firearm just like a vehicle or building. The business is always with me, so it is only a temporary use of the firearm, not a transfer by their definitions.
The more I think about it, the more this is going to be taken apart in court.
Post by: fireweed on November 12, 2014, 09:09:39 PM
Post by: Stein on November 12, 2014, 09:44:02 PM
what confuses me is since there is no "list" anywhere, how do the "gun police" know whose guns they are to start with? In a married couple don't they already belong to both spouses? If one dies, they then just belong to one spouse after that. If there is no "list" then in any given house the guns could belong to anybody who lives there.
As of today, there is a list of all handguns purchased since 96 or so as well as every firearm that has gone through an FFL. Moving forward, there will be a paper trail of every firearm transfer.
The main goal isn't to get 100% of all of the guns on a list as this wouldn't pass. So, they settle for 100% of the guns from today on and then catch a bunch of the rest in future transfers. Remember, when the handgun thing happened in the 90's, the state swore up and down it wasn't a registry. Now, we have an official unofficial "tax" registry of every handgun purchase through an FFL. Don't think this will end up any different.
Post by: Griiz on November 12, 2014, 09:56:15 PM
Post by: whackmaster on November 12, 2014, 09:57:25 PM
Post by: Stein on November 12, 2014, 10:03:43 PM
This bill is thinking long term. My wife can say I gave my firearms to her before the bill became law if they were purchased before then. My 12 year old son can't say that because he can't legally own a gun for six more years, even though he has mowed many lawns and done other jobs and I have used his money to purchase four firearms that will legally be his some day if things don't get worse. The problem is he will have to get a background check to get his guns from me and my guns someday. At this time all the guns might be on a register which is bad news. But he has to register the guns or become a felon if caught with any gun. Our generation is OK, the next is screwed because they can't owns gun right now because of age. In the big picture it is the first step in removing guns from the people. Think a few decades out.
There is a provision in 594 for your immediate family, no background check required. Kind of funny that you can transfer to your looney brother but not the chief of police.
That said, the family provision will someday be yet another "loophole" that needs to be closed. Look at what they got this time around with exactly zero evidence even one life would have been saved.
Post by: Griiz on November 12, 2014, 10:19:11 PM
That may be the case. Can you clear up why the wife has to turn guns in within 60 days and have a ffl check. She is also family listed in that provision. Thanks bradThis bill is thinking long term. My wife can say I gave my firearms to her before the bill became law if they were purchased before then. My 12 year old son can't say that because he can't legally own a gun for six more years, even though he has mowed many lawns and done other jobs and I have used his money to purchase four firearms that will legally be his some day if things don't get worse. The problem is he will have to get a background check to get his guns from me and my guns someday. At this time all the guns might be on a register which is bad news. But he has to register the guns or become a felon if caught with any gun. Our generation is OK, the next is screwed because they can't owns gun right now because of age. In the big picture it is the first step in removing guns from the people. Think a few decades out.
There is a provision in 594 for your immediate family, no background check required. Kind of funny that you can transfer to your looney brother but not the chief of police.
That said, the family provision will someday be yet another "loophole" that needs to be closed. Look at what they got this time around with exactly zero evidence even one life would have been saved.
Post by: Stein on November 12, 2014, 10:45:57 PM
Quote
(4) This section does not apply to:
(a) A transfer between immediate family members, which for this subsection shall be limited to spouses, domestic partners, parents,
children, siblings, grandparents, grandchildren, nieces, nephews, first cousins, aunts, and uncles, that is a bona fide gift;
Quote
(g) A person who (i) acquired a firearm other than a pistol by operation of law upon the death of the former owner
of the firearm or (ii) acquired a pistol by operation of law upon the death of the former owner of the pistol within the preceding sixty days. At the end of the sixty-day period, the person must either have lawfully transferred the pistol or must have contacted the department of licensing to notify the department that he or she has possession of the pistol and intends to retain possession of the pistol, in compliance with all federal and state laws.
Both quotes are from the same section which lists the exemptions to the law. Under a), the way I read it is that if you gift it to your wife, no background check is required for any firearm. If you die, I don't think that is a gift any longer and section g) would apply? If so, pistols would require a background check but not other firearms (no matter the relation)? Also, a) doesn't seem to cover sales, you would have to give it away.
The more I read it the more I scratch my head. If my interpretation is correct, I die and leave a rifle to anyone at all without a background check, but if I am living, I might need to perform one unless they are immediate family. This actually makes some sense as the person transferring is the one commuting the crime, not the person receiving it. Thus, if you die, they can't really go after you.
If you die and leave a handgun to your wife, she would then need to notify them she is in possession within 60 days of your death or she would be a felon.
Now that I think about it, I am going to give all my guns to my wife tomorrow. Shouldn't be too hard to document and stick a letter in the safe with our other papers and she could always go back to that letter at some point in the future as necessary.
Post by: Griiz on November 13, 2014, 05:53:28 AM
Quote(4) This section does not apply to:
(a) A transfer between immediate family members, which for this subsection shall be limited to spouses, domestic partners, parents,
children, siblings, grandparents, grandchildren, nieces, nephews, first cousins, aunts, and uncles, that is a bona fide gift;Quote(g) A person who (i) acquired a firearm other than a pistol by operation of law upon the death of the former owner
of the firearm or (ii) acquired a pistol by operation of law upon the death of the former owner of the pistol within the preceding sixty days. At the end of the sixty-day period, the person must either have lawfully transferred the pistol or must have contacted the department of licensing to notify the department that he or she has possession of the pistol and intends to retain possession of the pistol, in compliance with all federal and state laws.
Both quotes are from the same section which lists the exemptions to the law. Under a), the way I read it is that if you gift it to your wife, no background check is required for any firearm. If you die, I don't think that is a gift any longer and section g) would apply? If so, pistols would require a background check but not other firearms (no matter the relation)? Also, a) doesn't seem to cover sales, you would have to give it away.
The more I read it the more I scratch my head. If my interpretation is correct, I die and leave a rifle to anyone at all without a background check, but if I am living, I might need to perform one unless they are immediate family. This actually makes some sense as the person transferring is the one commuting the crime, not the person receiving it. Thus, if you die, they can't really go after you.
Thanks for taking the time to give your interpretation of this.
If you die and leave a handgun to your wife, she would then need to notify them she is in possession within 60 days of your death or she would be a felon.
Now that I think about it, I am going to give all my guns to my wife tomorrow. Shouldn't be too hard to document and stick a letter in the safe with our other papers and she could always go back to that letter at some point in the future as necessary.
Post by: fireweed on November 13, 2014, 09:26:35 AM
This bill is thinking long term. My wife can say I gave my firearms to her before the bill became law if they were purchased before then. My 12 year old son can't say that because he can't legally own a gun for six more years, even though he has mowed many lawns and done other jobs and I have used his money to purchase four firearms that will legally be his some day if things don't get worse. The problem is he will have to get a background check to get his guns from me and my guns someday. At this time all the guns might be on a register which is bad news. But he has to register the guns or become a felon if caught with any gun. Our generation is OK, the next is screwed because they can't owns gun right now because of age. In the big picture it is the first step in removing guns from the people. Think a few decades out.
There is a provision in 594 for your immediate family, no background check required. Kind of funny that you can transfer to your looney brother but not the chief of police.
That said, the family provision will someday be yet another "loophole" that needs to be closed. Look at what they got this time around with exactly zero evidence even one life would have been saved.
I think the creators of this thing knew darn well it would have little to no short term effects and would probably not be enforced much. You can bet the family loophole is already in the works. Then gun owners pass away most survivors will most likely not even know they are committing a criminal act by hanging onto them or selling them. And wammo, we create more and more felons that can't own guns. Scary part is this is just their first steps, they will be relentless in trying to get more and more laws past that will make things worse for us.
I'm afraid our only chance is getting some honest judges to find that this doesn't go along with our state or national constitutions. I really don't have a good feeling about that either, seem these days judges rule more on what they think is right than what the actual laws say.....
I don't see how this law can pass the "only one issue per initiative" test. There are clearly a half-dozen separate issues here: internet sales, gun shows sales, loans, gifts, inheritance, pistol vs. rifle....
Post by: tjthebest on November 13, 2014, 03:32:49 PM
Quote(4) This section does not apply to:
(a) A transfer between immediate family members, which for this subsection shall be limited to spouses, domestic partners, parents,
children, siblings, grandparents, grandchildren, nieces, nephews, first cousins, aunts, and uncles, that is a bona fide gift;Quote(g) A person who (i) acquired a firearm other than a pistol by operation of law upon the death of the former owner
of the firearm or (ii) acquired a pistol by operation of law upon the death of the former owner of the pistol within the preceding sixty days. At the end of the sixty-day period, the person must either have lawfully transferred the pistol or must have contacted the department of licensing to notify the department that he or she has possession of the pistol and intends to retain possession of the pistol, in compliance with all federal and state laws.
Both quotes are from the same section which lists the exemptions to the law. Under a), the way I read it is that if you gift it to your wife, no background check is required for any firearm. If you die, I don't think that is a gift any longer and section g) would apply? If so, pistols would require a background check but not other firearms (no matter the relation)? Also, a) doesn't seem to cover sales, you would have to give it away.
The more I read it the more I scratch my head. If my interpretation is correct, I die and leave a rifle to anyone at all without a background check, but if I am living, I might need to perform one unless they are immediate family. This actually makes some sense as the person transferring is the one commuting the crime, not the person receiving it. Thus, if you die, they can't really go after you.
If you die and leave a handgun to your wife, she would then need to notify them she is in possession within 60 days of your death or she would be a felon.
Now that I think about it, I am going to give all my guns to my wife tomorrow. Shouldn't be too hard to document and stick a letter in the safe with our other papers and she could always go back to that letter at some point in the future as necessary.
If you give all your guns away right now then technically you are not allowed to use them anymore because they are not yours.
Post by: Fl0und3rz on November 13, 2014, 03:35:38 PM
http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/buffalo-police-your-family-member-died-please-give-us-their-gun-now#.VGU1KeH7xD0.twitter (http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/buffalo-police-your-family-member-died-please-give-us-their-gun-now#.VGU1KeH7xD0.twitter)
Post by: MuleDeer on November 13, 2014, 07:44:31 PM
Of course, this is all hypothetical, and I would never do that, because I don't own any guns anymore, but I'm just thinking outside of the box, here. ;)
Post by: bigmacc on November 13, 2014, 09:03:45 PM
Quote(4) This section does not apply to:
(a) A transfer between immediate family members, which for this subsection shall be limited to spouses, domestic partners, parents,
children, siblings, grandparents, grandchildren, nieces, nephews, first cousins, aunts, and uncles, that is a bona fide gift;Quote(g) A person who (i) acquired a firearm other than a pistol by operation of law upon the death of the former owner
of the firearm or (ii) acquired a pistol by operation of law upon the death of the former owner of the pistol within the preceding sixty days. At the end of the sixty-day period, the person must either have lawfully transferred the pistol or must have contacted the department of licensing to notify the department that he or she has possession of the pistol and intends to retain possession of the pistol, in compliance with all federal and state laws.
Both quotes are from the same section which lists the exemptions to the law. Under a), the way I read it is that if you gift it to your wife, no background check is required for any firearm. If you die, I don't think that is a gift any longer and section g) would apply? If so, pistols would require a background check but not other firearms (no matter the relation)? Also, a) doesn't seem to cover sales, you would have to give it away.
The more I read it the more I scratch my head. If my interpretation is correct, I die and leave a rifle to anyone at all without a background check, but if I am living, I might need to perform one unless they are immediate family. This actually makes some sense as the person transferring is the one commuting the crime, not the person receiving it. Thus, if you die, they can't really go after you.
If you die and leave a handgun to your wife, she would then need to notify them she is in possession within 60 days of your death or she would be a felon.
Now that I think about it, I am going to give all my guns to my wife tomorrow. Shouldn't be too hard to document and stick a letter in the safe with our other papers and she could always go back to that letter at some point in the future as necessary.
If you give all your guns away right now then technically you are not allowed to use them anymore because they are not yours.
As far as the transfering to "immediate family members" goes, which is ok to do without any checks,I think he still would be able to use them. The "immediate family member" could just gift them back to him.....Now heres a couple more questions- can you gift a pistol to a immediate family member? and what if you received a pistol as a gift 9 or 10 years ago,I,m assuming the person who got the pistol as a gift years ago, before all this, is now the legal owner and if he wants to "transfer" it to someone OTHER than "immediate family" they would need to jump thru all the hoops to make it legal :dunno:
Post by: h2ofowlr on November 13, 2014, 09:20:37 PM
Post by: addicted on November 13, 2014, 10:36:04 PM
I spent all this time overseas just to have my legs cut out from under me back home.
Post by: iwagner on November 16, 2014, 03:03:25 PM
Don't think that would ever happen? Just wait.
Post by: csaaphill on November 22, 2014, 04:55:45 PM
Mine wont she knows better she keeps them and tells no one or I will haunt her :chuckle:
Or as stated they get burried with me so ....
Post by: csaaphill on November 22, 2014, 05:34:27 PM
Not that Bill Gates needs anything for Christmas, but perhaps put him in your will. Give him a few pistols in your will. If quite a few people do this. He will miss a few... but it would only take a few misses to make him a felon.too late he already is in my book :chuckle:
Post by: Stickerbush on November 22, 2014, 05:44:57 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on November 22, 2014, 05:47:55 PM
Dual ownership of a gun? Is this possiblea trust, I think you could put your whole family. The catch for 594 I think is 'possession' and transfer.
Post by: csaaphill on November 22, 2014, 05:48:31 PM
Dual ownership of a gun? Is this possible:dunno:
but we lose if all we do is look for clever ways to roll over.
Post by: Windwalker on November 22, 2014, 08:42:43 PM
Write a letter gifting all of them to your wife and sign and date it today. Then, when you die you have nothing to transfer.
Talked to a guy yesterday that was doing that with all his firearms - a complete list signed and dated - separate letters sealed and mailed to his house addressed to each child and his wife.
Whoever ends up with them will have a postmarked letter of ownership prior to 594.
Post by: Jingles on November 23, 2014, 08:22:49 PM
What happens when we are hunting w guns, Can we be checked to see owner ship or if it's registered or not? Are we supposed to register our guns? I'm personally not changing a damn thing just because this stupid law has passed.
Don't know how others feel but that is when the 4th Amendment of the constitution applies. They had damned well better have a search warrant./././/.././
Post by: csaaphill on November 24, 2014, 11:20:28 AM
I had a warden last year take my rifle form me took it to his pickup but then gave it back after he checked wish now I'd of stood up and said no. i did insist on unloading it myself though. So ya with that I bet that's what he'd done not sure didn't watch him.What happens when we are hunting w guns, Can we be checked to see owner ship or if it's registered or not? Are we supposed to register our guns? I'm personally not changing a damn thing just because this stupid law has passed.
Don't know how others feel but that is when the 4th Amendment of the constitution applies. They had damned well better have a search warrant./././/.././
I gave him my hunting licence and all not sure but thinking they are centralising on us and become all one LEO!
They used to only check hunting licence but seems they check far more now and think If I can without making a scene next time will say no to the Gun being handed to him.
WIll be respectfull but just say no I can put it here it's unloaded now so No sorry you have my hunting License and tags thats all you need.
Post by: bobcat on November 24, 2014, 11:32:50 AM
Post by: Curly on November 24, 2014, 11:42:24 AM
Post by: Curly on November 24, 2014, 11:44:13 AM
Post by: ghosthunter on November 24, 2014, 11:49:54 AM
What about when we are out hunting and need to hold our hunting buddy's rifle for whatever reason (i.e. - crossing a fence, or hold the rifle while he puts a pack on, etc.) ? :dunno:
I guess we need a App for that. :dunno: :yike: :bdid:
Post by: csaaphill on November 24, 2014, 09:06:52 PM
Post by: bear hunter on November 24, 2014, 09:25:25 PM
If I die they were my wife's guns in the first place.:tup: :tup: