Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Bow Hunting => Topic started by: pocketaces20 on December 02, 2014, 05:39:29 PM

Title: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: pocketaces20 on December 02, 2014, 05:39:29 PM: I am fairly new to this site so I'm sure this topic has been discussed before but have a few questions that maybe some of you who are more informed than I am could answer:

1. How strong is the push to legalize mechanical broadheads in Washington state/how close are we to being able to hunt large game with such equipment?

2. For anyone who knows the effectiveness of such broadheads, are mechanical heads simply a bunch of hype or are they truly above and beyond more effective than fixed blades?

It seems to me that if mechanical heads are as effective as some people claim, and the technology is at a point where the broadheads work as designed a high percentage of the time, then it only makes sense to legalize this equipment that would help make cleaner/more efficient kills. No true hunter wants to miss the mark by a little bit (as it happens sometimes to the best of us) and not be able to recover an animal only to have that animal suffer a slower death when there is technology out there that could have made that poor shot more effective.

Any insight into this topic would be much appreciated.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: xXLojackXx on December 02, 2014, 05:52:41 PM: I don't understand why people even like or want to use mechanicals. I shoot Slick Tricks, they fly like a field point, are razor sharp, tougher than a rock (I hit one this year :bash:) and don't have the risk of not opening upon impact.

I realize when operating properly, they give you a 2"+ wound channel, but no elk or animal has ever walked away from a well placed slick trick of mine. The risk vs reward doesn't balance out for me, even IF they wre legal
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: JBar on December 02, 2014, 05:58:12 PM: Just don't trust em, from what I've seen on TV yes they make a big hole but it's usually just one. Rarely do you see a pass thru :dunno:
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: Skillet on December 02, 2014, 06:01:59 PM: This annual topic is a month or so early, isn't it?
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: Magnum_Willys on December 02, 2014, 06:04:43 PM: A number of bow hunting guides in states where they are legal still won't allow their clients to use them. Too many failures.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: scotsman on December 02, 2014, 06:24:54 PM: Fixed blades have been successfully putting meat on the table for, oh, about 20,000 years. If it ain't broke you don't need to fix it....
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on December 02, 2014, 06:28:19 PM: Would not use them even if they were legal :twocents:
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: JBar on December 02, 2014, 06:30:41 PM: :yeah:
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: Reidus on December 02, 2014, 07:03:19 PM: I've used both. Many different fixed blades and the rage hyperdermic on an elk hunt in Montana. I've never seen a broadband fly just like a field point. Straight heads will fly like a field point if the bow is tuned properly. With the rage I wasn't super impressed with the penetration although it still killed the elk. I was impressed with the entry hole. I like the rages for longer shots and wind. For deer I'd shoot rages, no problem. They seem to fly a little better to me at longer range and in the wind. A friend just killed a buck with a rage at 90 yards and it died in about 7 seconds and was a bloody mess. Also have a friend that has killed many bulls with the rages. What I care about most with broadheads is accuracy. 90% of broadheads out there will kill if you hit vitals. Hit them right and they won't go far. I think in the future I'll stick to fixed blades for elk. Slick trick, shuttle t, exodus. In my opinion shot placement is far more important than broadhead type.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: jackelope on December 02, 2014, 07:29:04 PM: It shouldn't be about technology. That's sort of the point of it. I'll stick with my fixed bladed slick tricks.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: Wanttohuntmore on December 02, 2014, 07:29:49 PM: I would possibly use them on deer but would not trust the penetration on elk. Just had a pass through on a cow elk with the g5 montec. Not sure that would happen with an expandable.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: LeviD1 on December 02, 2014, 09:28:13 PM: I use shuttle t's currently. Which of the slick trick and g5 broadheads do you guys like.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: Lucky1 on December 02, 2014, 09:44:50 PM: I killed a couple deer in Minnesota with a small Rocky Mountain mechanical broadhead. Had complete pass through on both deer and quick kills. I like the way they fly. They are more forgiving on a rough release, which can happen in the excitement of shooting at an animal. I think they should be legal.
I shoot a pretty low poundage bow, so I don't think I would use them for elk hunting.
I shoot the Shuttle T Lock heads and they do work well.
:twocents:
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: jstone on December 03, 2014, 08:19:21 AM: I shoot the montec they fly great and the penetration is awesome. my last 3 bucks smoked them 2 fell in the spot they where standing and this years buck ran maybe 40 yards but the opposite shoulder was blown out by that broadhead. Would the mechanical broadhead do that?
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: irishevox on December 03, 2014, 08:32:40 AM: I like mechanical broadheads. When I hunt in Louisiana that what I use! I use SWACKERS! and they work. They hit hard and always have a pass through. I never have had an animal go farther and 60 yards on a mechanical where with a fixed I have had them go upwards of 100 even farther, except maybe twice
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: Machias on December 03, 2014, 09:47:24 AM: I currently live in a state where we can use mechanicals and I still use Muzzys. Lots of folks here use the mechanicals but the deer here are pretty small. I personally would not have confidence in them on elk.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: RubblesPH on December 04, 2014, 03:43:33 PM: Rage mechanicles have been devastating for us on big bodied bulls in NM. Between the two of us we have taken 3 bulls at 50, 60 and 62 yards. Forty yard or less pile ups with deep penetration and big wound channels. The tag that went unfilled the first trip was from my hunt partner using a fixed blade. Not at all blaming it on the broad head, he said it was a great shot, but I wasn't with him. He was devastated and after seeing the wound channel on my bull, he switched to mechanicles the next year and absolutely plowed a big bull at 62 yds.

The packer that drops camps us told us that he highly encourages (almost demands) the use of mechanicles for his guided clients and he has 30+ years in the elk hunting business.

i'd like to see the law changed for us guys who want to use them. Others will always have the right to use fixed blades if they want.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: irishevox on December 05, 2014, 07:31:19 AM: :yeah:
100% agreed
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: TommyH on December 05, 2014, 08:54:17 AM: Standard slick tricks for me. I could possible see a mech. Flying a bit better at longer distances and in heavy wind.....if your fixed blade shot drifted 3 inches back in heavy wind, vs. mechanical shot that has a smaller profile and hits it's mark but possible penetrates abit less.....which would you prefer in this hypothetical shot scenerio.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 05, 2014, 10:00:45 AM: Quote from: Machias on December 03, 2014, 09:47:24 AM
I currently live in a state where we can use mechanicals and I still use Muzzys. Lots of folks here use the mechanicals but the deer here are pretty small. I personally would not have confidence in them on elk.

But in defense of the new technology, Fred, it took you 15 years to give up rotary phones for them new-fangled button phones, too! :chuckle:
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: RubblesPH on December 05, 2014, 11:02:05 AM: Quote
....which would you prefer in this hypothetical shot scenerio.

Mechanicles....larger wound Chanel and never had an issue with penetration.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: sakoshooter on December 05, 2014, 08:06:16 PM: I'd sure like to try a Gravedigger on a deer.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: actionshooter on December 05, 2014, 08:27:09 PM: I like mechanicals, but I don't really have enough archery experience to say one is absolutely the best. Never lost an animal with either. I'm betting most guys are the same.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: BlacktailBowhunter on December 05, 2014, 09:39:31 PM: I have seen and heard on Whitetail shows that a lot of people are staying away from the "right behind the shouler" shots to avoid hitting the shoulder bone and actually hitting the deer farther back. With a 2" cut even in the guts that animal is going to die. I have encountered poor shots in my own bow hunting experiences where I believe an expandable would have been beneficial. I have also experienced marginal shots where I was sure glad I had a fixed blade, so I can see pluses and minuses to each.

I would use an expandable for deer, but my shots are from ground level and usually 20 yards or less. From the hundreds of kills I have seen on TV with expandable, I have been impressed. I also shoot a 70 lb draw weight getting 300 fps from my Hoyt Factor 34.

That being said, I am on the fence as far as whether they should be legal or not. In a lot states their only big game is deer and hogs. In those states, the deer are small and abundant.

I also believe there should be a minimum of 55 or 60 lb draw weight for an expandable, which leads to difficulty in regulation. I would think if someone wanted to use an expandable, they would have to get their bow certified and a test developed for proper penetration.

My sister inlaw just killed a fork in horn blacktail with a cut on contact 4 blade. Her arrow penetration did the trick, but if she were using an expandable, I don't think it would have got the penetration necessary from her 40 lb bow.

I have several friends that hunt numerous states for deer and elk every year and as soon as they are out of Oregon and Washington, they put the expandables on. These are guys that average 4 to 6 animals a year depending what they draw.

I tend to error on the side of freedom and I would support legalization if there were a way to regulate who could shoot them.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: idahohuntr on December 05, 2014, 11:01:26 PM: It is my understanding wdfw is going to recommend they be legal in 2015.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: bearpaw on December 05, 2014, 11:48:07 PM: We had a hunter illegally use expandables twice that I now know of after I had instructed him he had to get legal broadheads, a big mule buck and a 6x6 bull, both wounded animals got away. I am not in favor of them. :twocents:
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: Rock7 on December 16, 2014, 10:19:29 PM: I have used both and shot and killed many of animals with both. I Prime example is of when I shot a 200 lb boar hog with a rage and it functioned flawlessly. Even going through the "armor" hide those big hogs have. You cant beat the reliability of a fixed blade or the accuracy of an expandable. In my opinion the slip blade design like the rage and g5 work better than the flip blade design like the grim reapers.
Alaska just legalized mechanical broadheads for griz/brown bear, moose and goats. If you can shoot a 1500 lb moose or brown bear with one, then why not an elk or a blacktail deer?
Every hunter has his or her preferences and likes/dislikes and we all have our thoughts and ideas. I like expendables I think they fly better and if you are off on your shot placement a little, a huge cut kinda makes up for it. I personally have had more issues with drop away arrow rests than mechanical broadheas. How about we make those illegal? I think it has more to do with the "you cant hunt during more than one season, lighted nocks are evil" mentality than anything else.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: huntnnw on December 16, 2014, 10:47:15 PM: Ive seen deer shot with 2 blade rages and the holes are unreal!
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: KFhunter on December 16, 2014, 10:50:34 PM: ya'll are missing the real reason they're outlawed in WA

With a fixed broad head the animal has a better chance at recovering and healing from a bad shot then with a mechanical.

That's the theory I've always heard, and it sounds logical.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: huntnnw on December 16, 2014, 10:53:03 PM: I dont care what you shoot a elk or a deer with if its behind the shoulder a field tip will kill a elk or deer if thru the lungs. There is no broad head on the market that will crush a shoulder or kill an animal quickly cause you made a poor shot
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: Little Dave on December 16, 2014, 10:56:23 PM: Now this is just a little joke so please take it seriously: Let's keep balance in the purity of archery hunting by requiring mechanical broadheads when using recurve bows and fixed broadheads when using compound bows. :chuckle:

Make it legal and don't use them.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: irishevox on December 17, 2014, 07:33:04 AM: my wife shot a little button buck this weekend with a thunderhead. The shot was head on and the arrow when in the chest hit the heart came out the back. As the deer walked away she shot him again and it was a gut shot. We went to check the deer after an hour of waiting and he was still alive. I am sure with a mechanical broad head it would have sliced up the heard. the thunder head just cut it, it was a good shot and the Deer did expire, but the fact is that it shouldn't have taken that long I prefer mechanical over fixed any and all day.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: SB on December 20, 2014, 02:34:41 PM: Fixed blade, mechanical......whatever you shoot, it's all about hitting them in the right place. :twocents:
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: billythekidrock on December 20, 2014, 02:39:06 PM: Too many moving parts and potential for failure.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on December 20, 2014, 02:42:51 PM: The only thing they are good for is shooting heads off of turkeys ... :chuckle: :chuckle:
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: Jellymon on December 20, 2014, 03:28:15 PM: As far as accuracy goes, if you take the 30 minutes to actually tune your bow a fixed blade is all of as accurate as a mech. Using mechs is no excuse for not tuning your bow. You get better accuracy, arrow flight, penetration with a tuned bow no matter the head. More animals are lost because of no practice/tuning, or taking bad angled/distance shots than because of the head thats used. Bottom line, put it in the right spot with responsible angles and the animal will die quicky no matter the head, don't practice and take risky shots and you will pay the price. I don't have any issue with mechs being legal but I won't use one. There are more important things to be fighting for, hunting wise, than mech broadheads. Every year we lose more and more land to hunt, and the cost just to hunt is killing our sport more than any anti campaign ever could.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: huntnphool on December 20, 2014, 03:56:19 PM: Just as with lumenoks, if you don't want to use them then dont, let everyone make their own decision. :twocents:
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: lokidog on December 20, 2014, 04:21:11 PM: Quote from: bearpaw on December 05, 2014, 11:48:07 PM
We had a hunter illegally use expandables twice that I now know of after I had instructed him he had to get legal broadheads, a big mule buck and a 6x6 bull, both wounded animals got away. I am not in favor of them. :twocents:

I can't imagine someone who is demonstrating these ethics worried a whole lot about shot placement though. :dunno:

I wanted to use these as my BHs never matched my target arrows for impact point, however, now that I have a better tuned bow, they match up much better and I'm not sure I would bother with them.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: northwesthunter84 on December 20, 2014, 04:46:39 PM: I have shot all of my whitetails in Illinois with them, but after switching to fixed blades here in Washington I don't really see the point. If people want to shoot them you still have to practice because they do fly different, despite all the talk otherwise. Specifically Nap Spitfires had a 6" drop at 30 yards, but that was years ago. Never had a deployment issue though but I also only shot Rage 2 blades after that. I would say I only had one shot not pass through with the Rages but that was a spine shot on a deer that ducked on the shot. Given the choice with my set up I wouldn't change but I am not going to give someone crap if they are legal to use. I will give my opinion on poor shot choice, we as hunters owe it to the animals to do the best we can, marginal shots are not wrong but they are poor taste. Heck I could have taken a couple elk this year if I was not as strict as I am with shot choice. I can sleep at night with a tag in my pocket, not a wounded animal though. Oh and I will say that the only animal that I had the misfortune to loose was with a fixed blade. He lived and was shot during gun season 2 weeks later. Got my broadhead back though, clipped the shoulder blade and redirected straight across vice down through the lungs and heart. Darn nice buck too.
Title: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: dreamingbig on December 31, 2014, 07:52:26 AM: Quote from: pocketaces20 on December 02, 2014, 05:39:29 PM
I am fairly new to this site so I'm sure this topic has been discussed before but have a few questions that maybe some of you who are more informed than I am could answer:

1. How strong is the push to legalize mechanical broadheads in Washington state/how close are we to being able to hunt large game with such equipment?

2. For anyone who knows the effectiveness of such broadheads, are mechanical heads simply a bunch of hype or are they truly above and beyond more effective than fixed blades?

It seems to me that if mechanical heads are as effective as some people claim, and the technology is at a point where the broadheads work as designed a high percentage of the time, then it only makes sense to legalize this equipment that would help make cleaner/more efficient kills. No true hunter wants to miss the mark by a little bit (as it happens sometimes to the best of us) and not be able to recover an animal only to have that animal suffer a slower death when there is technology out there that could have made that poor shot more effective.

Any insight into this topic would be much appreciated.

What broadheads do you have experience hunting with?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 31, 2014, 08:09:30 AM: Mechanicals have come a long way. I have G5s, so I've got all I need for incredible killing power. But, I support allowing the use of mechanicals for those who want them. The wounding argument I don't believe is true. The department's objection to mechanicals is due to older technological difficulties which have long since been addressed by the major manufacturers. And the argument that they're too modern or add too much technology is crap unless you're shooting a longbow that you made from a yew, a string you made out of guts, arrows you made out of branches, bird feathers you found in the forest, and a broadhead of obsidian that you chiseled yourself, you don't get to play that card.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: dreamingbig on December 31, 2014, 08:27:22 AM: They upgraded the string to arrow method... http://pro-tracker.com

I pray it is never legal in the western states!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: coachcw on January 07, 2015, 09:11:39 AM: So I had discussed this issue with a couple professional archery people and have made a choice on my stand. First of all every time primitive equipment get advancements ie lighted nocks we loose something in terms of the season that's a point to ponder . secondly a well tuned bow with shoot fixed blades quite well . when adding a mechanical devise to a bh to keep it at 100 grains you sacrifice blade thickness . I'd rather have a .041 blade on a marginal hit vrs a .021 blade . sure when punched through the pocket on a deer mechanical leave a nasty path . but anyone the has hit one with a quality fixed blade will see the same results . just one more thing that can go wrong with such advanced equipment. lighted nocks are nice because they help us find the arrow and determine the quality of the hit . I know legal or not when in elk woods my quiver will be full of sharp fixed blades !
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: Netminder01 on January 07, 2015, 09:30:55 AM: Quote from: scotsman on December 02, 2014, 06:24:54 PM
If it ain't broke you don't need to fix it....

Don't agree with that statement at all regardless of the potential passing making the use legal. Not sure I'd switch from fixed but I for one embrace a better way to do something. We as people will always do this no matter the avenue... cars, planes, phones.

I bet you don't have a flip phone or wait for the pony express to deliver mail. :IBCOOL:
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: huntnphool on January 07, 2015, 09:58:19 AM: Quote from: coachcw on January 07, 2015, 09:11:39 AM
First of all every time primitive equipment get advancements ie lighted nocks we loose something in terms of the season

With all due respect, you are sounding like a liberal politician.

Please show me evidence of losing seasons as a result of equipment advancement!
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: coachcw on January 07, 2015, 10:22:21 AM: Quote from: huntnphool on January 07, 2015, 09:58:19 AM
Quote from: coachcw on January 07, 2015, 09:11:39 AM
First of all every time primitive equipment get advancements ie lighted nocks we loose something in terms of the season

With all due respect, you are sounding like a liberal politician.

Please show me evidence of losing seasons as a result of equipment advancement!
Come on phool you know where I sand on politics. just because we have no big foot evidence does that mean he doesn't exist ? :chuckle:
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: coachcw on January 07, 2015, 10:23:49 AM: just because a Mathews bow wont fly a fixed blade phool ? :chuckle:
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: coachcw on January 07, 2015, 10:26:38 AM: lets not forget that a mechanical broad head is also barbed so that would open up another issue with arrows hanging into poorly shot animals its all about image right ?
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: huntnphool on January 07, 2015, 10:36:43 AM: Quote from: coachcw on January 07, 2015, 10:22:21 AM
Quote from: huntnphool on January 07, 2015, 09:58:19 AM
Quote from: coachcw on January 07, 2015, 09:11:39 AM
First of all every time primitive equipment get advancements ie lighted nocks we loose something in terms of the season

With all due respect, you are sounding like a liberal politician.

Please show me evidence of losing seasons as a result of equipment advancement!
Come on phool you know where I sand on politics. just because we have no big foot evidence does that mean he doesn't exist ? :chuckle:

Just keeping it real.

The fact is, seasons have never been lost as a result of equipment technology. This narrative is thrown out there by special interests in a effort to sway opinion, is categorically untrue, and has no relevance in these discussions. :twocents:
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: coachcw on January 07, 2015, 12:46:57 PM: Quote from: huntnphool on January 07, 2015, 10:36:43 AM
Quote from: coachcw on January 07, 2015, 10:22:21 AM
Quote from: huntnphool on January 07, 2015, 09:58:19 AM
Quote from: coachcw on January 07, 2015, 09:11:39 AM
First of all every time primitive equipment get advancements ie lighted nocks we loose something in terms of the season

With all due respect, you are sounding like a liberal politician.

Please show me evidence of losing seasons as a result of equipment advancement!
Come on phool you know where I sand on politics. just because we have no big foot evidence does that mean he doesn't exist ? :chuckle:

Just keeping it real.

The fact is, seasons have never been lost as a result of equipment technology. This narrative is thrown out there by special interests in a effort to sway opinion, is categorically untrue, and has no relevance in these discussions. :twocents:
my bad if that's not true , I've been told it has a influence on the cessions when setting seasons by people higher up the chain than I. could just be hear say .
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: coachcw on January 07, 2015, 12:52:47 PM: I was thinking back to plenty of elk I've killed with a bow and I'm no saint that's never made a poor shot or lost a animal ( I have came to grips with that) I can honestly say that I cant think of any elk I have lost that would have been harvested with a mechanical . I can say two elk for sure may not have be recovered with one both where hits a lil forward in the scap that made it through into the boiler . that's my best argument against them . I does drive me crazy how many you see out in the box stores (im sure guys buy and hunt with them ) they need to be labeled better on the shelf.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: follow maggie on January 07, 2015, 08:27:20 PM: Field & Stream had an interesting article on this last month: http://www.fieldandstream.com/articles/hunting/2014/11/broadhead-test-fixed-blades-vs-mechanicals (http://www.fieldandstream.com/articles/hunting/2014/11/broadhead-test-fixed-blades-vs-mechanicals)
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on January 07, 2015, 08:33:36 PM: Quote from: KFhunter on December 16, 2014, 10:50:34 PM
ya'll are missing the real reason they're outlawed in WA

With a fixed broad head the animal has a better chance at recovering and healing from a bad shot then with a mechanical.

That's the theory I've always heard, and it sounds logical.

:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: popeshawnpaul on January 08, 2015, 10:38:51 AM: I have used them and killed multiple deer with expandables. I have killed numerous deer and elk with fixed blade heads. I would not recommend expandables to be used on elk. I tried to get WSB and WDFW to make expandables only legal for deer. WSB voted 6-3 to allow expandables for deer & elk. I was one of the 3 "nays". I would vote "yay" if it were for only deer.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: coachcw on January 08, 2015, 10:48:55 AM: Quote from: popeshawnpaul on January 08, 2015, 10:38:51 AM
I have used them and killed multiple deer with expandables. I have killed numerous deer and elk with fixed blade heads. I would not recommend expandables to be used on elk. I tried to get WSB and WDFW to make expandables only legal for deer. WSB voted 6-3 to allow expandables for deer & elk. I was one of the 3 "nays". I would vote "yay" if it were for only deer.
yeah its tough when the season over laps , who would carry both types , I just don't see the benefit.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: RubblesPH on January 15, 2015, 10:42:14 AM: Pope - just curious, you mention that you have killed several buck with expandables but would not recommend them on elk. Not questioning your judgement, just curious why you wouldn't use them. Glad to see your back on here.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: RadSav on January 15, 2015, 11:23:44 AM: Quote from: follow maggie on January 07, 2015, 08:27:20 PM
Field & Stream had an interesting article on this last month: http://www.fieldandstream.com/articles/hunting/2014/11/broadhead-test-fixed-blades-vs-mechanicals (http://www.fieldandstream.com/articles/hunting/2014/11/broadhead-test-fixed-blades-vs-mechanicals)

Interesting article. The 7% improvement on mechanicals may have to do with quality of blades. Very few expandables outside Rocket have poor or dull blades. There are a bunch of poor or dull blades in fixed broadheads. Would be cool if they were able to list the heads involved and see if there were a certain theme to failures! I'd be willing to bet the theme would be easily recognized.

Flight has little to do with the broadhead shape and almost everything to do with arrow build. So that is not a surprise. Number one question people ask me is how our broadheads fly. They get a little upset when I tell them they fly perfect...just like every other broadhead I've ever shot. And that is literally hundreds of different heads! Some are considerably quieter which means better aerodynamics in general, but combine with a well built arrow and they are going to fly just great!

Sure wish more people would concern themselves with how sharp the head is and how well it stays sharp rather than how they fly, how they hold up to sinter blocks or how they penetrate plywood. Always best to wait for the animal to step out from behind the shed before you shoot at them ;)
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: Nice Racks on January 18, 2015, 05:08:32 PM: Tiffany just shot a bull with one; they must be OK then. :chuckle:
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: AntlerHound on January 18, 2015, 05:49:53 PM: Don't have to much experience bow hunting... Thought you all might like this video.. You will need a youtube account to watch

http://youtu.be/dxP6JrRv6Ks (http://youtu.be/dxP6JrRv6Ks)
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: AZcoueshunter78 on January 19, 2015, 07:18:51 PM: I have had alot of experience with mechanical broadheads as i have never shot anything but. I have had great penetration and complete pass thrus on hogs rams and elk.all have been quick lethal and humane shots that led to very short recoveries. I have seen first hand testing of several manufacturers of their broadheads and the rigorous test they put them thru ( like repeatedly shooting the same arrow thru a moose antler until the blade finally breaks , i believe it was around 14-20 shots) the ones i have always used are in no way barbed and close up upon pulling it out. I for one being new to this state would love to see them legalize mechanical broadheads in WA. But until they do i will need to find an acceptable replacement for my vortex and my deadringer rampage 3 hybrid's. Just my 2 cents on the topic.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: Greg Mullins on February 15, 2015, 09:18:07 AM: I dont care.I LIKE MY T's but I do care to be able to choose.I worry more about having nowhere to go use them.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: Fullabull on February 15, 2015, 08:49:56 PM: Ok, so my thoughts on michanicals is not with there attractiveness so much as you can see there have been a lot of improvements made with them and they probably work fine.
My concern is there are a lot of people out there that don't understand how important a well tuned bow and arrow is to shooting accuracy. These people hear how mechanicals shoot like field points when their fixed blades won't so they go buy the mechanicals and never learn to tune their bows. This doesn't make them better shots or hunters.

Will making mechanicals legal turn into more hunters taking more poor shots and wounding more animals?
Or,will it help poor shoppers make better shots? (I can't believe that)
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: LeviD1 on February 15, 2015, 09:16:27 PM: Quote from: Fullabull on February 15, 2015, 08:49:56 PM
Ok, so my thoughts on michanicals is not with there attractiveness so much as you can see there have been a lot of improvements made with them and they probably work fine.
My concern is there are a lot of people out there that don't understand how important a well tuned bow and arrow is to shooting accuracy. These people hear how mechanicals shoot like field points when their fixed blades won't so they go buy the mechanicals and never learn to tune their bows. This doesn't make them better shots or hunters.

Will making mechanicals legal turn into more hunters taking more poor shots and wounding more animals?
Or,will it help poor shoppers make better shots? (I can't believe that)

I agree with people need to tune their bows. BUT...... The people who dont tune their bows now probably wont ever anyways. I would rather them be able to make more accurate shots if mechanicals in fact will help with that. That means instead of the lazy type of person who doesn't tune and doesnt practice shooting possibly 2 deer or elk in a season because they make a bad shot and lose one and it dies somewhere to just shooting one if these broadheads make them more accurate. Im all for that. That means 1 more animal out there that I get a chance at. I love my shuttle t's but would also love the opportunity to shoot a deer with a mechanical broadhead. I feel with my bow I would even be comfortable taking bear and elk with them as well since I shoot 320ish fps. With that being said i have watched a lot of videos on mechanicals and if they make it legal might try schwackers, the blades seems stronger than the rage from what I've seen.

I would like to know what are your guys favorite mechanicals?
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: RadSav on February 15, 2015, 09:58:44 PM: Quote from: LeviD1 on February 15, 2015, 09:16:27 PM
I would like to know what are your guys favorite mechanicals?

I've played with most of the expendables on the market. Most get the nose up, don't like them, fly no better/no worse than my Savora heads reaction. But, I must admit that the Rage Hypodermic was very hard not to like. It is still a two blade broadhead, which I stay clear of, and at 2" cutting diameter penetration is always a little disappointing for a two blade. However, most of this is offset by some really great machining, nice blades, reliable blade deployment, removal from targets is easy and the compact size is impressive for such a wide blade configuration. If I had to choose a favorite mechanical right now, I think this one would probably be it...even with the two blade profile.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on February 16, 2015, 07:00:53 AM: The hypodermic did look slick. I get just as big of holes with the grizz trick 2 as they were showing in that video. Do you plan on making an expandable rad? lumenocks with expandables would make for some cool kill shots on video.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: 3dvapor on February 16, 2015, 07:21:42 AM: This broadhhead is a combination of a mechanical and fixed. I used a helix two blade which is a cut on contact and twice the thickness as most blades.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: 3dvapor on February 16, 2015, 07:26:25 AM: Here is a picture of the broadhead closed up.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: RadSav on February 16, 2015, 10:46:07 AM: Quote from: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on February 16, 2015, 07:00:53 AM
Do you plan on making an expandable rad? lumenocks with expandables would make for some cool kill shots on video.

No plans at this time. Though you never know when another bright idea will come along.

Why would expendables make for any more of a cool video than a regular broadhead? :dunno:
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on February 16, 2015, 06:43:59 PM: I ment the luminock. But yeah. You should put one out if made legal in wa might be the best seller, you never know. Sometimes what sells isn't always what works the best. But if it sells who cares right. Regardless I'll probably stick to fixed blades.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: RadSav on February 16, 2015, 08:32:43 PM: Guess I should not have passed my blade locking system for expendables to WASP years ago :chuckle: But at that time I was thinking, "Why would I ever want to make an expandable broadhead?" Still not sure why I would want to, but maybe I'll change my mind some day.

I'll take the flight of the Vandyke head over any expandable on the market today. The thing is crazy good even in wind. Of course it is not a 2" two blade, but so far no animal has complained about that ;)
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: bullfisher on February 16, 2015, 08:46:36 PM: :beatdeadhorse:

Mechs will never be legal in WA. We have a no barb rule, a 40lb min hunt weight with a 300grn min arrow weight, and big tough animals like roosevelt elk. The trend to build arrows and equipment for when everything goes right instead of when everything goes wrong is a different story altogether.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: RadSav on February 16, 2015, 08:59:25 PM: Quote from: bullfisher on February 16, 2015, 08:46:36 PM
:beatdeadhorse:

Mechs will never be legal in WA. We have a no barb rule, a 40lb min hunt weight with a 300grn min arrow weight, and big tough animals like roosevelt elk.

Most of todays expendables are not barbed. As long as they can rotate forward I see no reason to make them illegal. Doubtful I would ever shoot an elk with one, but my personal preference should have no bearing on legality. As I've posted before, I'd take a guy shooting a sharp expandable any day over a guy shooting a dull fixed blade, Toxic or an Atom.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: bullfisher on February 16, 2015, 09:06:30 PM: Quote from: RadSav on February 16, 2015, 08:59:25 PM
Quote from: bullfisher on February 16, 2015, 08:46:36 PM
:beatdeadhorse:

Mechs will never be legal in WA. We have a no barb rule, a 40lb min hunt weight with a 300grn min arrow weight, and big tough animals like roosevelt elk.

Most of todays expendables are not barbed. As long as they can rotate forward I see no reason to make them illegal. Doubtful I would ever shoot an elk with one, but my personal preference should have no bearing on legality. As I've posted before, I'd take a guy shooting a sharp expandable any day over a guy shooting a dull fixed blade, Toxic or an Atom.
Most? Maybe, but our current laws wouldn't allow the rest.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: Todd_ID on February 16, 2015, 09:08:34 PM: Quote from: bullfisher on February 16, 2015, 08:46:36 PM
:beatdeadhorse:

Mechs will never be legal in WA. We have a no barb rule, a 40lb min hunt weight with a 300grn min arrow weight, and big tough animals like roosevelt elk. The trend to build arrows and equipment for when everything goes right instead of when everything goes wrong is a different story altogether.
Well, you are right and wrong here. Mechanicals will be legal this year: that's the only part that you're wrong about. Heavy, solid stuff will always be tougher,and that's where you're right. I like to see someone have an arrow over 500 grains for elk. If 600 was the minimum to enter a deer in Pope and Young, then we'd only see pass-throughs on the television: THAT'S ALL. I personally like my elk arrows in the 550-650 range, and that's hard to do with what's available now.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: bullfisher on February 17, 2015, 06:59:03 AM: Quote from: Todd_ID on February 16, 2015, 09:08:34 PM
Quote from: bullfisher on February 16, 2015, 08:46:36 PM
:beatdeadhorse:

Mechs will never be legal in WA. We have a no barb rule, a 40lb min hunt weight with a 300grn min arrow weight, and big tough animals like roosevelt elk. The trend to build arrows and equipment for when everything goes right instead of when everything goes wrong is a different story altogether.
Well, you are right and wrong here. Mechanicals will be legal this year: that's the only part that you're wrong about. Heavy, solid stuff will always be tougher,and that's where you're right. I like to see someone have an arrow over 500 grains for elk. If 600 was the minimum to enter a deer in Pope and Young, then we'd only see pass-throughs on the television: THAT'S ALL. I personally like my elk arrows in the 550-650 range, and that's hard to do with what's available now.
Well that would be great for the folks who believe in mechs. I just dont see the state rewriting that many archery equipment laws in order to accommodate mechs, which we all know would have to be done.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: bobcat on February 17, 2015, 07:29:58 AM: They already re-wrote the law to allow mechanicals. It's in the proposals for the 2015-2017 hunting seasons.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/regulations/2015/wsr_15-04-086.pdf
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on February 17, 2015, 08:07:16 AM: Quote from: RadSav on February 16, 2015, 08:59:25 PM
Quote from: bullfisher on February 16, 2015, 08:46:36 PM
:beatdeadhorse:

Mechs will never be legal in WA. We have a no barb rule, a 40lb min hunt weight with a 300grn min arrow weight, and big tough animals like roosevelt elk.

Most of todays expendables are not barbed. As long as they can rotate forward I see no reason to make them illegal. Doubtful I would ever shoot an elk with one, but my personal preference should have no bearing on legality. As I've posted before, I'd take a guy shooting a sharp expandable any day over a guy shooting a dull fixed blade, Toxic or an Atom.

I might try some this year at the house. My slick trick leaves a huge long cut just like those in the video of the rage. My fixed broad heads fly like darts if I tune my bow and arrow. I would think the mechs would fly better in wind and have less wind resistance while in flight.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: Russ McDonald on February 17, 2015, 08:13:17 AM: Quote from: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on February 17, 2015, 08:07:16 AM
Quote from: RadSav on February 16, 2015, 08:59:25 PM
Quote from: bullfisher on February 16, 2015, 08:46:36 PM
:beatdeadhorse:

Mechs will never be legal in WA. We have a no barb rule, a 40lb min hunt weight with a 300grn min arrow weight, and big tough animals like roosevelt elk.

Most of todays expendables are not barbed. As long as they can rotate forward I see no reason to make them illegal. Doubtful I would ever shoot an elk with one, but my personal preference should have no bearing on legality. As I've posted before, I'd take a guy shooting a sharp expandable any day over a guy shooting a dull fixed blade, Toxic or an Atom.

I might try some this year at the house. My slick trick leaves a huge long cut just like those in the video of the rage. My fixed broad heads fly like darts if I tune my bow and arrow. I would think the mechs would fly better in wind and have less wind resistance while in flight.
I shot Grim Reapers prior to moving the WA. They flew just like my field tips. Hardly had to tune anything for them. I never harvested anything with the Grim Reapers though but I have seen first hand what they do when I was in Minnesota and couple years ago. Blew right through the shoulder of a whitetail and the exit wound was 3 fingers wide.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: bullfisher on February 17, 2015, 10:37:14 AM: Quote from: bobcat on February 17, 2015, 07:29:58 AM
They already re-wrote the law to allow mechanicals. It's in the proposals for the 2015-2017 hunting seasons.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/regulations/2015/wsr_15-04-086.pdf (http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/regulations/2015/wsr_15-04-086.pdf)
Wow, im outta the loop. So if I read this correctly, it would be legal for someone to hunt elk with a 40lb bow, a 20 inch arrow weighing 300grns and any mechanical broadhead they choose? Am I interpreting that right?
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: Russ McDonald on February 17, 2015, 11:00:24 AM: Quote from: bullfisher on February 17, 2015, 10:37:14 AM
Quote from: bobcat on February 17, 2015, 07:29:58 AM
They already re-wrote the law to allow mechanicals. It's in the proposals for the 2015-2017 hunting seasons.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/regulations/2015/wsr_15-04-086.pdf (http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/regulations/2015/wsr_15-04-086.pdf)
Wow, im outta the loop. So if I read this correctly, it would be legal for someone to hunt elk with a 40lb bow, a 20 inch arrow weighing 300grns and any mechanical broadhead they choose? Am I interpreting that right?
Mechanicals broadheads will be just like fixed so you would be correct in your interpretation.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on February 17, 2015, 11:02:14 AM: I'm glad they're changing the rules in favor of more oppurtunities.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: Russ McDonald on February 17, 2015, 11:11:51 AM: Quote from: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on February 17, 2015, 11:02:14 AM
I'm glad they're changing the rules in favor of more oppurtunities.
I agree it should be a hunters choice on what they want to use.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: SGTDuffman on February 17, 2015, 06:51:43 PM: Quote from: bullfisher on February 17, 2015, 10:37:14 AM
Quote from: bobcat on February 17, 2015, 07:29:58 AM
They already re-wrote the law to allow mechanicals. It's in the proposals for the 2015-2017 hunting seasons.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/regulations/2015/wsr_15-04-086.pdf (http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/regulations/2015/wsr_15-04-086.pdf)
Wow, im outta the loop. So if I read this correctly, it would be legal for someone to hunt elk with a 40lb bow, a 20 inch arrow weighing 300grns and any mechanical broadhead they choose? Am I interpreting that right?

Unless they add some sort of caveat or equipment restriction for mechanicals, you're interpretation is most likely correct.

Personally, I would prefer they not allow mechanicals. Generally speaking, I'm all for big boy rules, but in this case, I believe it is an ethics issue. A well placed shot with any kind of broadhead, or no broadhead at all, will ethically kill game. My concern is with poorly placed shots. If, for whatever reason, the shot does not go where intended, the animal has a much better chance of healing/surviving a wound created by clean cutting fixed blade head. The only two reasons I've ever heard for people using a mechanical head are: (1) a bigger wound channel or (2) they fly more like field points. A larger wound is exactly what you do not want on a wounded animal. On an animal that is hit where it's supposed to be hit, it doesn't matter how big the wound is, a hole in the heart or lungs will kill them. I'm against those "new" Toxic broadheads for the same reason. These "coring" design heads failed in the 50's. As far as arrow flight is concerned, I don't buy the argument that mechanicals fly better than fixed. My broadheads fly like field points to at least 70 yds, and if I had anywhere to shoot them farther than that I'm sure they would continue doing so. It seems like mechanicals are often used as a replacement for practice or tuning or both.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: coachcw on February 18, 2015, 08:54:45 PM: I sure see a bunch off them only going half way into elk on TV ! :nono:
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: RadSav on February 20, 2015, 04:25:23 AM: Quote from: coachcw on February 18, 2015, 08:54:45 PM
I sure see a bunch off them only going half way into elk on TV ! :nono:

If guys were shooing 1.5" or 2" fixed broadheads on tv you'd probably be seeing the same thing. No matter how hard you try to spin your advertising hype sooner or later physics will rule the day.

I shot 1.25", 1.375" and 1.5" boreheads back in the day of 80# draw weights, too long of draw lengths and 600 grain arrows. Some of them I really liked! I didn't have many pass throughs back then either ;) Now with 390 grain arrows, 28.5" draw length, 62 pounds and 1" broadheads I rarely find an arrow after it goes skipping off through the woods after destroying the boiler room! And crazy, I know, the animals today seem to go less distance after the shot :o

Funny how when Duke Savora was in Africa, working with the government testing modern bowhunting equipment, he spoke with native hunters on which head they would shoot for Cape Buffalo, Kudu and Eland. Unexposed to marketing hype each one chose the smallest head he had for testing (7/8"). At the conclusion of the Chapinda Pools testing it could not prove them wrong! It's exciting to see those big holes in hide, but in the end it makes little to no difference unless you are whacking them in the Texas heart.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: coachcw on February 20, 2015, 06:10:45 AM: Right Rav ... two holes are better than one !
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: sakoshooter on February 20, 2015, 10:34:51 PM: I have mixed feelings on 'me' using mech broadheads here in WA but for many situations they'll be great - close shots at deer from tree stands and ground blinds etc.
Also, in the old days that Rad refers to, most of us never had a pass thru but then again, a sharp broadhead lodged in the middle of the chest cavity does a lot os damage when the animal runs off. Kind of like an Eveready battery; keeps on cutting.
Title: Re: legalizing mechanical broadheads in Washington
Post by: RadSav on February 20, 2015, 11:07:11 PM: Quote from: sakoshooter on February 20, 2015, 10:34:51 PM
Also, in the old days that Rad refers to, most of us never had a pass thru but then again, a sharp broadhead lodged in the middle of the chest cavity does a lot os damage when the animal runs off. Kind of like an Eveready battery; keeps on cutting.

Adequate penetration and over penetration are always a compromise in certain circumstances. Especially when dealing with two blade broadheads. Although if the blade retracts after energy loss best to have it put two holes while open than leave it in there to do nothing, right?