Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Bow Hunting => Topic started by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on December 22, 2008, 05:43:41 PM

Title: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on December 22, 2008, 05:43:41 PM: This is my wife showing proper back tension with a caliper style release. As you watch notice how she gets her 2nd knuckle on the release then begins to pull her shoulder blades together (back tension) while she continues to aim until the shot just goes off.... hope this visual helps.....[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Upqq4UmYD0c[/youtube]
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: dbllunger on December 25, 2008, 12:50:51 PM: Must have missed it. Just looked like a normal trigger release to me.
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: 1bowhunter1 on December 25, 2008, 12:54:35 PM: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on December 25, 2008, 01:15:44 PM: she is not squezzing the trigger with her finger, she is pulling her back muscles to move the finger to make the release go off.. much diff...
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: PA BEN on December 25, 2008, 02:04:36 PM: Not to say your wrong, what ever works for you. I think the extra movement could change your release. I have my release set real light, I just move my finger up and touch it. It's good to see your wife shooting, I tried years ago with my wife. The first time she hit her fore arm it was over. She loves to hunt, but with a gun.
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on December 25, 2008, 06:25:59 PM: IM not really sure what extra movement you are refering to? and what exactly would change in the release? shooting this way ensures a consistent release every shot.... which is one of the key factors in superior accuracy
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: SpokaneSlayer on December 25, 2008, 06:30:20 PM: I think I'll give that a try next time I go shoot.
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on December 25, 2008, 06:39:01 PM: I would highly recommend it, all the best shooters in the world shoot back tension.. must be some reason for it...........
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: SpokaneSlayer on December 25, 2008, 06:41:59 PM: That can be done with any release right?
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: addicted on December 25, 2008, 06:47:24 PM: every release

i was taught that it you know when your using your back tension when A: the shot surprises your and B: Your arm floats back upon release.

is that true hoytstaff. your wifes arm doesnt float back as much as i was described
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on December 25, 2008, 06:57:22 PM: Both are true, however with a caliper release the release arm falling back wont be as extreme as a real back tension release, they key is as long as the release hand is going back then the shooter is at least using some form of back tension as they are pulling and when the shot goes off that energy makes the release hand go back.. the shot should always surprise you, if you are only focused on aiming and not the shot, you can not have target panic, aniticpate the shot or punch the trigger.. notice in this video how much my release hand moves back after the shot....[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q19n5h8oQoM[/youtube]
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: PA BEN on December 25, 2008, 07:07:32 PM: Again, you can back tension all you want. I pratice for hunting. I draw, and release my arrow as fast as I can. Some time the animal doesn't wait for the shot. As far as 3D and target shooting, it looks like it works.
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on December 25, 2008, 07:18:32 PM: Thats your call.. personally out of all the game I have shot with a bow, I have only had a few go to move when I was aiming and getting ready to shoot, of those times, I either let down or just held and did not continue my shot until the animal stoped again...if the animal does not give you time to execute a shot ( 6-10 seconds) then that animal is probably to alert to shoot at in the first place.....
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: bullcanyon on December 25, 2008, 07:34:13 PM: Not sure how one could tell back tension is being used just because your hands flies back. Aren't we pulling against something that suddenly lets go? Ever pull on something that suddenly slips or lets go. I bet you flew backwards.

Not saying either video wasn't displaying back tension Paul. Just saying that I don't seen how it proves it.
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on December 25, 2008, 08:05:52 PM: if you punch the trigger your release hand will go no where, the energy is released from the bow, but since you are not keeping constant back tension with the shot it wont move, drawing and holding a bow is not even in the same realm of pressure as shooting with back tension where you squezze your shoulder blades together and that pulls your release elbow back.. hence the name
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: dbllunger on December 25, 2008, 08:23:01 PM: I'M with PA on this one. Heard all about it and if it works for you then great. What ever makes a person shoot more accurately.
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on December 25, 2008, 08:27:04 PM: exactly thats my point, shooting it will make you more accurate....it increased my scores greatly when I was younger... almost 10 pts a round.. thats huge.. now if I miss the 10ring at 20yrds its a bad shot and pretty damn rare...and thats a 1 in target, could never shoot that accurate and consistent without it..... amnd im shooting pins, no long stabilizers or magnified scopes...
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: Bearhunter on December 25, 2008, 09:12:29 PM: Randy Ulmer sure can shoot a caliber style release, at one time is was ranked as one of the best in the world, not all winning pros shoot back tension releases. :twocents:
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: Timberstalker on December 25, 2008, 09:20:42 PM: HOYT- It is hard to convince someone to shoot like this. I was started on backtension and i believe it is a great way to shoot. its not the only way but I feel its the best. You cant punch and all you worry about is aiming. I use it for 3d, indoor and hunting and it works. I would not suggest it for someone that only shoots july and august. it requires alot of time behind the string and for some even a bloody nose :chuckle: :chuckle:
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: Bearhunter on December 25, 2008, 09:31:39 PM: One thing to note, is you still can punch a back tension, or anticipate the release. Most guys I know that shoot them have a handle full of them. When you start anticipating the release or punching it they move to another style backtension, and then works but it doesnt break bad habits. Two of the best 3d archers in this state shoot caliber style releases.
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: 1bowhunter1 on December 25, 2008, 09:53:55 PM: 2 each his own...
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: PA BEN on December 26, 2008, 08:56:20 AM: I started shooting a recurve bow with fingers, then I went to a long bow with fingers, no sites. I killed lots of deer. I shoot a compound bow now with sites and a caliper release. I've also seen a guy on the out door channel shoot a aspirin thrown in the air with a long bow with fingers, no sites. What ever works for you. It might not work for the next guy or gal.
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on December 26, 2008, 10:48:46 AM: Quote from: Bearhunter on December 25, 2008, 09:12:29 PM
Randy Ulmer sure can shoot a caliber style release, at one time is was ranked as one of the best in the world, not all winning pros shoot back tension releases. :twocents:

your right, hes awesome and he shoots that caliper release with back tension. also he did not compete with a caliper... just like I do... as far as guys anticipating the shots with backtension.. those guys never had it down correctly.. simple as that, if you have a grasp on it that never happens... and you cant "punch' a back tension release, you can however manipulate your wrist to make it go off as well, also incorect...
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on December 26, 2008, 10:50:44 AM: Quote from: Timberstalker on December 25, 2008, 09:20:42 PM
HOYT- It is hard to convince someone to shoot like this. I was started on backtension and i believe it is a great way to shoot. its not the only way but I feel its the best. You cant punch and all you worry about is aiming. I use it for 3d, indoor and hunting and it works. I would not suggest it for someone that only shoots july and august. it requires alot of time behind the string and for some even a bloody nose :chuckle: :chuckle:

I agree with you, to me its the best and only way to shoot, its just really hard for me when guys that have never tried it and have no concept of it try and question what im saying... also I know all about bloody noses.. lets just say thats why I draw away from my face now!!!
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: PA BEN on December 26, 2008, 11:47:25 AM: Quote from: Hoytstaffshooter83 on December 26, 2008, 10:48:46 AM
Quote from: Bearhunter on December 25, 2008, 09:12:29 PM
Randy Ulmer sure can shoot a caliber style release, at one time is was ranked as one of the best in the world, not all winning pros shoot back tension releases. :twocents:

your right, hes awesome and he shoots that caliper release with back tension. also he did not compete with a caliper... just like I do... as far as guys anticipating the shots with backtension.. those guys never had it down correctly.. simple as that, if you have a grasp on it that never happens... and you cant "punch' a back tension release, you can however manipulate your wrist to make it go off as well, also incorect...
Now when you say,""punch' a back tension release". Is this a special release, ie; back tension release, or your standard caliper release?
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: rasbo on December 26, 2008, 11:54:10 AM: Quote from: PA BEN on December 26, 2008, 08:56:20 AM
I started shooting a recurve bow with fingers, then I went to a long bow with fingers, no sites. I killed lots of deer. I shoot a compound bow now with sites and a caliper release. I've also seen a guy on the out door channel shoot a aspirin thrown in the air with a long bow with fingers, no sites. What ever works for you. It might not work for the next guy or gal.
I saw that program,he was something else.I started out like you shooting archery,It was really hard to go to sites and a trigger release.But I did and had a good time doing so.I think there are to many gimmicks,its about making money..How did Fred Bear get along?
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: PA BEN on December 26, 2008, 11:57:34 AM: My first compound I shot with fingers and no sites. Man, I could hit good out to 40 yds. The speed and Hi Tect got the best of me. :chuckle:
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: rasbo on December 26, 2008, 12:01:39 PM: Quote from: PA BEN on December 26, 2008, 11:57:34 AM
My first compound I shot with fingers and no sites. Man, I could hit good out to 40 yds. The speed and Hi Tect got the best of me. :chuckle:
I miss it Fred Bear was a hero..Im to busted up to go back to archery loved it.We used to shoot ground squirrels,they were everywhere 10 to 20 yrds what a blast
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on December 26, 2008, 12:05:07 PM: Quote from: PA BEN on December 26, 2008, 11:47:25 AM
Quote from: Hoytstaffshooter83 on December 26, 2008, 10:48:46 AM
Quote from: Bearhunter on December 25, 2008, 09:12:29 PM
Randy Ulmer sure can shoot a caliber style release, at one time is was ranked as one of the best in the world, not all winning pros shoot back tension releases. :twocents:

your right, hes awesome and he shoots that caliper release with back tension. also he did not compete with a caliper... just like I do... as far as guys anticipating the shots with backtension.. those guys never had it down correctly.. simple as that, if you have a grasp on it that never happens... and you cant "punch' a back tension release, you can however manipulate your wrist to make it go off as well, also incorect...
Now when you say,""punch' a back tension release". Is this a special release, ie; back tension release, or your standard caliper release?

A back tension release is a release that has a head on it and that has a 1/2 moon mechanism that holds it in place, you draw and aim, then use back tension and the release goes off when you have moved your back elbow enough to trigger it.. here is a pic of one of mine.............
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: PA BEN on December 26, 2008, 01:27:32 PM: That sure doesn't look like the one in the video :dunno:
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: Bearhunter on December 26, 2008, 06:16:41 PM: I beg to differ, you can punch a backtension. Ive seen it and done it many times, but to each his own. They are the way to go though especially if you have developed target panic issues. When my boy get old enough to shoot, I will probably just start him on one. Its kinda funny watching a first timer trying to shoot one :chuckle:
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on December 26, 2008, 08:33:52 PM: how can you punch one? you can pull harder, or you can put pressure on your pinky and make it go off.. but you cant "punch" one, but you can punch yourself in the face
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on December 26, 2008, 08:34:51 PM: Quote from: PA BEN on December 26, 2008, 01:27:32 PM
That sure doesn't look like the one in the video :dunno:

the one in the video of my wife is a caliper style hunting release, the video of me is a diff back tension release.. same type though
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: PA BEN on December 26, 2008, 08:40:17 PM: Boy, to punch yourself in the face doesn't sound like a safe release, fling an arrow when you don't want to. :dunno: So, how does it go off?
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on December 26, 2008, 09:28:42 PM: that happens to most when they are learning.... when you pull back you need to keep all the pressure on your index finger... if you dont the release will go off.. it goes off by the release changing angles ever so slightly, when you are using back tension to shoot the release.. the pulling back changes the angle in your hand and it goes off.. the best example I can give you is this.. its like putting your hand on a table and keeping the same pressue while you draw you hand back, when it slides off the table is when the release would go off if that makes sense.... you dont make the arrow shoot, it shoots when it goes off, all you do is focus on aiming..
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: dbllunger on December 26, 2008, 09:34:04 PM: So am I understanding this correctly? The only difference is that you use your back/shoulder muscles to trip the release?
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on December 26, 2008, 09:54:42 PM: essentially yes, you use your rhomboids (middle back) to pull and all you do is aim and when it goes off, it goes off.. you dont know when that will be, so all you do is focus on aiming and aiming and aiming...... this cures, target panic, shot anticpation and punching the release (caliper style) which is very very very common by almost anyone that does not get taught any diff.
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: PA BEN on December 27, 2008, 07:51:27 AM: I like by arrow to go when I want it to go. Sometimes your off balance and can't hold all day on your target, as your pin cross's your target, it's time to send the arrow. :twocents:
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on December 27, 2008, 08:59:00 AM: shooting with back tension also makes you much more steady as well.... shooting whatever way you want is fine for hunting if you so choose, remember your target is huge.. however when I am shooting my target is the size of a quarter and the x is the size of a dime..... cant shoot that accurate without proper back tension.. no way around that, which for me translates into shots on animals..... makes me more confident and effective, and you can shoot it from your knees, on non level surfaces etc... doesnt change anything... and like I said, you wont have issues with the pin moving all around once you mastered shooting this way, on a bad day my pins move to the edge of the bull.. on a normal day they dont move at all....
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: backyard bucks on December 28, 2008, 07:12:52 PM: i am probably one of the worst punchers of a caliper style release that you'll ever find.
but with that said i have been able to overcome that for hunting purposes.
when i use to shoot 3d's and targets i used a 4 finger stan and using the back tension style totally took the punching away. (only with that style release)
i have to agree with hoyt on this one that for being consistant every shot in and out that style is the way to go.

i use my caliper for hunting though and thru the years have profected my punch so it works for me.. :dunno:
Title: Re: back tension with a hunting release Video
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on December 28, 2008, 08:24:46 PM: thank you! and your not alone, most people dont even know they are doing anything wrong with their release, others like you have taught yourself to shoot well enough to hunt with punching the trigger..... I strive to be the best I can and only the best so I do all I can do achieve that, and for me thats back tension on every shot, game or paper or foam