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Title: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: bigtex on January 16, 2015, 10:39:41 PM
HB 1271 would create a "rock collecting endorsement" for use on WDFW, DNR and State Park lands. The endorsement would be an annual fee of $5 per family. Each endorsement allows the removal of up to 50 pounds of rock per day. All holes, divots, etc. must be filled in. Agencies can dictate closed areas to rock collection.

Now the interesting this is the majority of this is codified under the Discover Pass laws. The fine would be the equivalent of failing to have a Discover Pass. The revenue generated from sales and fine money would go into the Discover Pass account.

http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2015-16/Pdf/Bills/House%20Bills/1271.pdf (http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2015-16/Pdf/Bills/House%20Bills/1271.pdf)
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 17, 2015, 10:12:06 AM
Is there a problem right now with people collecting rocks?  I thought it was closed already.
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: Jacque on January 17, 2015, 10:16:08 AM
What next, a State breathing fee.
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: mfswallace on January 17, 2015, 10:45:46 AM
Is there a problem right now with people collecting rocks?  I thought it was closed already.

Go to Red Top and you will see hillsides knocked down and creating washouts of roads.  some people don't care to rock hound the right way and leave minimal impact...   :twocents:
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: lokidog on January 17, 2015, 10:47:56 AM
On the face of it, it seems reasonable, but really it's just one more thing to stick it to us.   :twocents:

Is there a problem right now with people collecting rocks?  I thought it was closed already.

Go to Red Top and you will see hillsides knocked down and creating washouts of roads.  some people don't care to rock hound the right way and leave minimal impact...   :twocents:

So then ticket them.  Is this going to change people's poor behavior?  Does it include a rockhound training class?  Will that be next?
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on January 17, 2015, 12:20:00 PM
Where do they keep coming up with this crap ??  :rolleyes: They already have a ball park figure on what they will collect from shed hunters just by watching facebook  :yike:
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: Jingles on January 17, 2015, 12:46:16 PM
Most of this is already covered in the WA Gold and Fish Pamphlet just another example of the government wanting total control of the people and their activities Plus a perfect example of the Governments left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. WDFW has screwed the miners over ever since they revised the Gold and Fish Pamphlet in 1999. They refuse to use published scientific studies but use the words of the ologist that are nothing but book learners that couldn't pour Pizz out of a boot with instructions written on the heel and an arrow pointing to the heel.
Nothing but a money grab for incompetent spending by WDFW.......
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: bigtex on January 17, 2015, 08:28:04 PM
Most of this is already covered in the WA Gold and Fish Pamphlet just another example of the government wanting total control of the people and their activities Plus a perfect example of the Governments left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. WDFW has screwed the miners over ever since they revised the Gold and Fish Pamphlet in 1999. They refuse to use published scientific studies but use the words of the ologist that are nothing but book learners that couldn't pour Pizz out of a boot with instructions written on the heel and an arrow pointing to the heel.
Nothing but a money grab for incompetent spending by WDFW.......
Well the Gold and Fish pamphlet only covers streams and bodies of water. If someone is out in the desert area near Othello and wants to get some rocks on DNR land the Gold and Fish Pamphlet doesn't apply to them.

In terms of money it's a $5 permit in which DNR and WDFW would each get a whopping $0.40 to their budgets while State Parks would get $4.20.
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: bigtex on January 17, 2015, 08:35:16 PM
Is there a problem right now with people collecting rocks?  I thought it was closed already.
Go to Red Top and you will see hillsides knocked down and creating washouts of roads.  some people don't care to rock hound the right way and leave minimal impact...   :twocents:
So then ticket them.  Is this going to change people's poor behavior?  Does it include a rockhound training class?  Will that be next?
Actually, establishing this law would make it easier to go after violators.

Right now it is a misdemeanor to remove rocks from DNR, WDFW, State Park lands. This means it takes a prosecutor to actually decide whether or not to prosecute. Are they going to prosecute the DUI or the guy who took a 5 gallon bucket of rocks out of the LT Murray Wildlife Area? I am sure we all know the answer.

The bill would simply make it an infraction (ticket) for failing to get an endorsement.
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on January 18, 2015, 06:00:27 AM
Is there a problem right now with people collecting rocks?  I thought it was closed already.
Go to Red Top and you will see hillsides knocked down and creating washouts of roads.  some people don't care to rock hound the right way and leave minimal impact...   :twocents:
So then ticket them.  Is this going to change people's poor behavior?  Does it include a rockhound training class?  Will that be next?
Actually, establishing this law would make it easier to go after violators.

Right now it is a misdemeanor to remove rocks from DNR, WDFW, State Park lands. This means it takes a prosecutor to actually decide whether or not to prosecute. Are they going to prosecute the DUI or the guy who took a 5 gallon bucket of rocks out of the LT Murray Wildlife Area? I am sure we all know the answer.

The bill would simply make it an infraction (ticket) for failing to get an endorsement.
Simpler yet ,it is a cash collector :chuckle:

Most of this is already covered in the WA Gold and Fish Pamphlet just another example of the government wanting total control of the people and their activities Plus a perfect example of the Governments left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. WDFW has screwed the miners over ever since they revised the Gold and Fish Pamphlet in 1999. They refuse to use published scientific studies but use the words of the ologist that are nothing but book learners that couldn't pour Pizz out of a boot with instructions written on the heel and an arrow pointing to the heel.
Nothing but a money grab for incompetent spending by WDFW.......
Well the Gold and Fish pamphlet only covers streams and bodies of water. If someone is out in the desert area near Othello and wants to get some rocks on DNR land the Gold and Fish Pamphlet doesn't apply to them.

In terms of money it's a $5 permit in which DNR and WDFW would each get a whopping $0.40 to their budgets while State Parks would get $4.20.
With THIS being the case I want to vote NO twice!!!
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 18, 2015, 09:51:47 AM
Yeah, my NO was heavily, heavily influenced by allowing state parks (a no hunting area) to get 84% of the money.
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: bowbuild on January 18, 2015, 09:55:55 AM
HB 1271 would create a "rock collecting endorsement" for use on WDFW, DNR and State Park lands. The endorsement would be an annual fee of $5 per family. Each endorsement allows the removal of up to 50 pounds of rock per day. All holes, divots, etc. must be filled in. Agencies can dictate closed areas to rock collection.

Now the interesting this is the majority of this is codified under the Discover Pass laws. The fine would be the equivalent of failing to have a Discover Pass. The revenue generated from sales and fine money would go into the Discover Pass account.

http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2015-16/Pdf/Bills/House%20Bills/1271.pdf (http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2015-16/Pdf/Bills/House%20Bills/1271.pdf)

The discover pass should cover this, to add another fee is over the top!
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: jay.sharkbait on January 18, 2015, 10:02:41 AM
A long train of abuses........
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: lokidog on January 18, 2015, 10:45:59 AM
But it's only $5....    :rolleyes:    Wait until the piss-in-the-woods permit comes along.   :yike:
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: jay.sharkbait on January 18, 2015, 10:51:33 AM
Death by a thousand cuts.
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: bigtex on January 18, 2015, 05:52:22 PM
The bill was introduced by Rep Buys who is a Republican from Whatcom County.

Obviously the interesting thing about this is the funding makeup. I would assume/bet that State Parks would have the fewest amount of areas open to rock collection, yet they would get most of the money.
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: csaaphill on January 18, 2015, 06:13:00 PM
 :chuckle:
Rock collecitng permit  :chuckle:
If you have to ask permision as in a permit it's not liberty any more so NO!
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: fireweed on January 20, 2015, 10:24:22 AM
Read over the bill and got dizzy.  Way too complicated to require a rock endorsement.  But I do think recreational rock hounding needs to be allowed if its illegal. 

One of the best ideas I saw on the blue ribbon coalition outdoor recreation comments was that the DNR should allow Christmas tree cutting, like the USFS.  Maybe if the trend is to allow some collecting, but charge for an endorsement, it needs to cover all special forest products for personal use.
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: bigtex on January 20, 2015, 05:47:23 PM
Read over the bill and got dizzy.  Way too complicated to require a rock endorsement.  But I do think recreational rock hounding needs to be allowed if its illegal. 

One of the best ideas I saw on the blue ribbon coalition outdoor recreation comments was that the DNR should allow Christmas tree cutting, like the USFS.  Maybe if the trend is to allow some collecting, but charge for an endorsement, it needs to cover all special forest products for personal use.
:yeah:
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: mfswallace on January 20, 2015, 10:41:13 PM
Since any kind of removal of rocks, minerals, flowers and as I was told by a park ranger today even sheds is illegal  would this effect the Ginko petrified forest state park?
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: bigtex on January 20, 2015, 10:52:04 PM
Since any kind of removal of rocks, minerals, flowers and as I was told by a park ranger today even sheds is illegal  would this effect the Ginko petrified forest state park?
WDFW, DNR, and State Parks can closed areas to collection. The law also said petrified items are not to be removed.
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: csaaphill on January 20, 2015, 11:12:49 PM
Can you hear the sirens blazong if someone happens to pick up a rock without a permit.  :bdid:
Er how about the choke holds that would be done because someone not holding a $5 permitt :yike:
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: bigtex on January 20, 2015, 11:23:40 PM
Can you hear the sirens blazong if someone happens to pick up a rock without a permit.  :bdid:
Realistically, an officer would be more justified right now to have their "sirens blazong" if someone was removing rocks then they would if this bill passed. (not that they would)

As I have already said, right now it's a misdemeanor to remove rocks from state lands. If this passes it'll be a infraction (ticket.)
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: KFhunter on January 20, 2015, 11:25:18 PM
 :chuckle:
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: Little Dave on January 20, 2015, 11:32:24 PM
Wow, that's a huge priority for our state. 

Is the government fearing a good old fashioned public stoning for coming up with bad ideas?
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: csaaphill on January 20, 2015, 11:39:36 PM
Can you hear the sirens blazong if someone happens to pick up a rock without a permit.  :bdid:
Realistically, an officer would be more justified right now to have their "sirens blazong" if someone was removing rocks then they would if this bill passed.

As I have already said, right now it's a misdemeanor to remove rocks from state lands. If this passes it'll be a infraction (ticket.)
:yike: So I see a cool rock I can't take without it being a misdameanor now?  :yike: just  :yike: My dad collected rocks for years never seen the rock police out :dunno:
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: bigtex on January 20, 2015, 11:47:54 PM
Can you hear the sirens blazong if someone happens to pick up a rock without a permit.  :bdid:
Realistically, an officer would be more justified right now to have their "sirens blazong" if someone was removing rocks then they would if this bill passed.

As I have already said, right now it's a misdemeanor to remove rocks from state lands. If this passes it'll be a infraction (ticket.)
:yike: So I see a cool rock I can't take without it being a misdameanor now?  :yike: just  :yike: My dad collected rocks for years never seen the rock police out :dunno:
I don't know where you got the "now" part?? It's always been a misdemeanor to remove rocks from state lands.
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: csaaphill on January 20, 2015, 11:52:59 PM
Can you hear the sirens blazong if someone happens to pick up a rock without a permit.  :bdid:
Realistically, an officer would be more justified right now to have their "sirens blazong" if someone was removing rocks then they would if this bill passed.

As I have already said, right now it's a misdemeanor to remove rocks from state lands. If this passes it'll be a infraction (ticket.)
:yike: So I see a cool rock I can't take without it being a misdameanor now?  :yike: just  :yike: My dad collected rocks for years never seen the rock police out :dunno:
I don't know where you got the "now" part?? It's always been a misdemeanor to remove rocks from state lands.
:chuckle: whatever I never knew that not until now :chuckle: never heard of such a thing.
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: lokidog on January 20, 2015, 11:54:15 PM
Better make sure to empty the gizzards of any state land shot birds out, might bring some gravel (tiny rocks) home without your permit.   :chuckle:
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: csaaphill on January 20, 2015, 11:56:20 PM
Can you hear the sirens blazong if someone happens to pick up a rock without a permit.  :bdid:
Realistically, an officer would be more justified right now to have their "sirens blazong" if someone was removing rocks then they would if this bill passed.

As I have already said, right now it's a misdemeanor to remove rocks from state lands. If this passes it'll be a infraction (ticket.)
:yike: So I see a cool rock I can't take without it being a misdameanor now?  :yike: just  :yike: My dad collected rocks for years never seen the rock police out :dunno:
I don't know where you got the "now" part?? It's always been a misdemeanor to remove rocks from state lands.
:chuckle: whatever I never knew that not until now :chuckle: never heard of such a thing.
seems like a stupid law anyhows arrest someone for removing a small pebble or colorfull rock OMG!
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: bigtex on January 21, 2015, 12:00:25 AM
Can you hear the sirens blazong if someone happens to pick up a rock without a permit.  :bdid:
Realistically, an officer would be more justified right now to have their "sirens blazong" if someone was removing rocks then they would if this bill passed.

As I have already said, right now it's a misdemeanor to remove rocks from state lands. If this passes it'll be a infraction (ticket.)
:yike: So I see a cool rock I can't take without it being a misdameanor now?  :yike: just  :yike: My dad collected rocks for years never seen the rock police out :dunno:
I don't know where you got the "now" part?? It's always been a misdemeanor to remove rocks from state lands.
:chuckle: whatever I never knew that not until now :chuckle: never heard of such a thing.
seems like a stupid law anyhows arrest someone for removing a small pebble or colorfull rock OMG!
Just like being arrested for not wearing the safety bracelet on a jetski.

And just think, prior to 1979 you could be arrested for literally any offense in WA.
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: csaaphill on January 21, 2015, 01:31:04 AM
Can you hear the sirens blazong if someone happens to pick up a rock without a permit.  :bdid:
Realistically, an officer would be more justified right now to have their "sirens blazong" if someone was removing rocks then they would if this bill passed.

As I have already said, right now it's a misdemeanor to remove rocks from state lands. If this passes it'll be a infraction (ticket.)
:yike: So I see a cool rock I can't take without it being a misdameanor now?  :yike: just  :yike: My dad collected rocks for years never seen the rock police out :dunno:
I don't know where you got the "now" part?? It's always been a misdemeanor to remove rocks from state lands.
:chuckle: whatever I never knew that not until now :chuckle: never heard of such a thing.
seems like a stupid law anyhows arrest someone for removing a small pebble or colorfull rock OMG!
Just like being arrested for not wearing the safety bracelet on a jetski.

And just think, prior to 1979 you could be arrested for literally any offense in WA.
enlighten us. Still safety shouldn't always and I repeat always have a law added to it. Just one more way to collect money from people who don't hold to the Majority's way of thinking. It's a abritrary law that makes a person a criminal over Rocks, or not wearing some bracelet  :bash:
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on January 21, 2015, 04:33:08 AM
 And in some cases, I would bet far from the majority  (could be wrong, but you know what they bay about a blind squirrel).I swear that some folks in positions of authority  need to walk a mile on the other side of all these control ideas they love to come up with.
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: fireweed on January 21, 2015, 08:36:13 AM
Since any kind of removal of rocks, minerals, flowers and as I was told by a park ranger today even sheds is illegal  would this effect the Ginko petrified forest state park?
WDFW, DNR, and State Parks can closed areas to collection. The law also said petrified items are not to be removed.

Bigtex
Please clarify for us all what is and isn't allowed for rock collecting.  Some previous posts (from gold panners) said this was covered by rules already.  Is that just for streams and gold panners?  Is it truly illegal to pick up a rock on all DNR land?  WDFW land? State parks I can believe.

 I absolutely abhor laws that turn regular folks into criminals. These laws are usually that are put in place to stop real thieves (probably taking truckloads of gravel from state land) but technically  apply to kids  playing in the creek.
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: lokidog on January 21, 2015, 08:38:59 AM
You know, I think it is illegal to pick up driftwood from the beach as well since it all belongs to the state... all of you with duck mounts on driftwood, better lock your doors and cover your windows.   :chuckle:  I'd bette get my seashell (empty) and sand dollar (dead) permit in order too.   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: bigtex on January 21, 2015, 08:42:37 AM
Can you hear the sirens blazong if someone happens to pick up a rock without a permit.  :bdid:
Realistically, an officer would be more justified right now to have their "sirens blazong" if someone was removing rocks then they would if this bill passed.

As I have already said, right now it's a misdemeanor to remove rocks from state lands. If this passes it'll be a infraction (ticket.)
:yike: So I see a cool rock I can't take without it being a misdameanor now?  :yike: just  :yike: My dad collected rocks for years never seen the rock police out :dunno:
I don't know where you got the "now" part?? It's always been a misdemeanor to remove rocks from state lands.
:chuckle: whatever I never knew that not until now :chuckle: never heard of such a thing.
seems like a stupid law anyhows arrest someone for removing a small pebble or colorfull rock OMG!
Just like being arrested for not wearing the safety bracelet on a jetski.

And just think, prior to 1979 you could be arrested for literally any offense in WA.
enlighten us. Still safety shouldn't always and I repeat always have a law added to it. Just one more way to collect money from people who don't hold to the Majority's way of thinking. It's a abritrary law that makes a person a criminal over Rocks, or not wearing some bracelet  :bash:
Prior to 1979 every offense in WA was a crime, as such you could be arrested for any offense.

In 1979 the legislature created traffic infractions, which are not crimes and you can't be arrested or be sentenced to jail for them.

In 1987 the legislature created civil infractions and natural resource infractions. Similar to the above, you can't be arrested or be sentenced to jail for them.

Since 1987 just about every year there are criminal offenses that are turned into civil infractions. Basically the legislature opens their eyes and sees that someone can be arrested for an offense that should be handled by simply a ticket. As an example, in 2012 15 fish and wildlife offenses were reclassified from a crime to an infraction.

There are a ton of natural resource related offenses which are important, but are classified as a crime and as such makes it impossible to prosecute someone. Someone who destroys a huckleberry bush with a rake commits a gross misdemeanor, there is not a prosecutor in this state that is going to take that case. Just an example of an offense that should be an infraction and not a crime.
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: bigtex on January 21, 2015, 08:50:34 AM
Since any kind of removal of rocks, minerals, flowers and as I was told by a park ranger today even sheds is illegal  would this effect the Ginko petrified forest state park?
WDFW, DNR, and State Parks can closed areas to collection. The law also said petrified items are not to be removed.
Bigtex
Please clarify for us all what is and isn't allowed for rock collecting.  Some previous posts (from gold panners) said this was covered by rules already.  Is that just for streams and gold panners?  Is it truly illegal to pick up a rock on all DNR land?  WDFW land? State parks I can believe.

 I absolutely abhor laws that turn regular folks into criminals. These laws are usually that are put in place to stop real thieves (probably taking truckloads of gravel from state land) but technically  apply to kids  playing in the creek.
The current laws that others have mentioned are under the gold and fish pamphlet and only apply to bodies of water.

So yes if you driving in the Colockum Wildlife Area, pick up a few rocks and throw them in the truck you just committed a crime.

Like you said, the laws are mainly enforced on the guys with the buckets of rocks, but do apply to anyone. There is no weight limit where under a certain weight its an infraction and over it its a crime.
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: bearpaw on January 21, 2015, 10:00:11 AM
This rock hounding issue came up in the Recreational Parks task force meetings. I think Rep Buys means well and is trying to make it legal for rock hounds to collect rocks, because as mentioned currently it may not be legal to pick them up. This would also bolster the Discover Pass revenue for state parks which is falling short so that undoubtedly is one of the intended benefits of the legislation.

But I voted no in the poll, I am tired of permits for every little thing we do in our lives. I could understand if a permit was required to mine (remove large amounts of rock) but I think it should be legal for a rock hound to pick up small amounts of rock without a permit.

I would rather see legislation that allowed rock hounding included with purchase of the Discover Pass which is already required to be on state lands. I think that would raise additional revenue for state parks by getting more rock hounders to buy discover passes. I am not in favor of creating additional permits or writing tickets to people simply for adding rocks to their rock collection.
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: bigtex on January 21, 2015, 10:18:56 AM
I get bashed all the time when I say other states do it. My point isn't to say well if Montana is doing it, why shouldn't we. But rather to show that it's not something new that some crazy legislator in WA came up with. I just did a simple Google search and found that both Utah and Montana have similar permits and I'd be willing to bet there are more. Montana has a $10 Special Recreational Use Permit for use on state lands for the following activities: overnight horseback use, trapping, outfitting, group use, cutting or gathering of firewood, collecting valuable rocks and minerals, mineral exploration, collection or disturbance of archaeological, historical, or paleontological sites.

I would rather see legislation that allowed rock hounding included with purchase of the Discover Pass which is already required to be on state lands. I think that would raise additional revenue for state parks by getting more rock hounders to buy discover passes.
I think my question with this statement is how many people currently out rock collecting don't have a Discover Pass? If these people already have a Discover Pass whether to use State Parks or use DNR lands then the revenue increase won't be all that much. I also don't think there's really that many rock collectors out there, I may be wrong.
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: montana44mag on January 21, 2015, 10:21:21 AM
Can you hear the sirens blazong if someone happens to pick up a rock without a permit.  :bdid:
Er how about the choke holds that would be done because someone not holding a $5 permitt :yike:

If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about.  :chuckle: Otherwise, beat em, tase em, shoot em, they are criminals cause a piece of paper says so!  :rolleyes:

"No officer, I swear, I was just using this rock to hammer down my tent stakes...hey....wait...er"...bzzzzzzzz...POP*, POP*
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: Special T on January 21, 2015, 10:24:37 AM
I think my question with this statement is how many people currently out rock collecting don't have a Discover Pass? If these people already have a Discover Pass whether to use State Parks or use DNR lands then the revenue increase won't be all that much. I also don't think there's really that many rock collectors out there, I may be wrong.

Im always disgusted at how our legislators dont look at the cost vs Rev on ideas like this If there are not that many rock hounds, and most of them that currently do have a DP it fails to raise any real $... So why push for this legislation?

I still have not seen what problem this bill adresses.
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: Knocker of rocks on January 21, 2015, 10:28:40 AM
I get bashed all the time when I say other states do it. My point isn't to say well if Montana is doing it, why shouldn't we. But rather to show that it's not something new that some crazy legislator in WA came up with. I just did a simple Google search and found that both Utah and Montana have similar permits and I'd be willing to bet there are more. Montana has a $10 Special Recreational Use Permit for use on state lands for the following activities: overnight horseback use, trapping, outfitting, group use, cutting or gathering of firewood, collecting valuable rocks and minerals, mineral exploration, collection or disturbance of archaeological, historical, or paleontological sites.

I would rather see legislation that allowed rock hounding included with purchase of the Discover Pass which is already required to be on state lands. I think that would raise additional revenue for state parks by getting more rock hounders to buy discover passes.
I think my question with this statement is how many people currently out rock collecting don't have a Discover Pass? If these people already have a Discover Pass whether to use State Parks or use DNR lands then the revenue increase won't be all that much. I also don't think there's really that many rock collectors out there, I may be wrong.

What happens to undergraduate Field Camps?
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: bigtex on January 21, 2015, 10:33:30 AM
I think my question with this statement is how many people currently out rock collecting don't have a Discover Pass? If these people already have a Discover Pass whether to use State Parks or use DNR lands then the revenue increase won't be all that much. I also don't think there's really that many rock collectors out there, I may be wrong.
Im always disgusted at how our legislators dont look at the cost vs Rev on ideas like this If there are not that many rock hounds, and most of them that currently do have a DP it fails to raise any real $... So why push for this legislation?

I still have not seen what problem this bill adresses.
As Bearpaw mentioned it came up during the recreational task force meetings about the lack of opportunity for rock collectors. This is the problem the bill addresses.

I know the Forest Service has a lot of free use permits. Basically you go to the USFS Ranger Station pick up a free mushroom picking permit, it states rules and regulations and your on your way out. It tells the USFS how many people are picking shrooms, allows them to actually tell people the regs, and overall have better control over the collection. But like I said, its free. There is a cost to the USFS for the person distributing the permits, cost in making the permits, etc.

Maybe a state free rock collecting permit is something that can be looked at. At least then you know how many people are doing it and can provide them with the regs.
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: bigtex on January 21, 2015, 10:35:16 AM
I get bashed all the time when I say other states do it. My point isn't to say well if Montana is doing it, why shouldn't we. But rather to show that it's not something new that some crazy legislator in WA came up with. I just did a simple Google search and found that both Utah and Montana have similar permits and I'd be willing to bet there are more. Montana has a $10 Special Recreational Use Permit for use on state lands for the following activities: overnight horseback use, trapping, outfitting, group use, cutting or gathering of firewood, collecting valuable rocks and minerals, mineral exploration, collection or disturbance of archaeological, historical, or paleontological sites.
I would rather see legislation that allowed rock hounding included with purchase of the Discover Pass which is already required to be on state lands. I think that would raise additional revenue for state parks by getting more rock hounders to buy discover passes.
I think my question with this statement is how many people currently out rock collecting don't have a Discover Pass? If these people already have a Discover Pass whether to use State Parks or use DNR lands then the revenue increase won't be all that much. I also don't think there's really that many rock collectors out there, I may be wrong.
What happens to undergraduate Field Camps?
I assume you mean like geology classes going out in the field?

The current laws for all three agencies state that the director can authorize mineral/rock removal. So basically if the class professor asks DNR if they can remove X amount of rocks and DNR says yes then they can do so.
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: Knocker of rocks on January 21, 2015, 10:38:01 AM
I get bashed all the time when I say other states do it. My point isn't to say well if Montana is doing it, why shouldn't we. But rather to show that it's not something new that some crazy legislator in WA came up with. I just did a simple Google search and found that both Utah and Montana have similar permits and I'd be willing to bet there are more. Montana has a $10 Special Recreational Use Permit for use on state lands for the following activities: overnight horseback use, trapping, outfitting, group use, cutting or gathering of firewood, collecting valuable rocks and minerals, mineral exploration, collection or disturbance of archaeological, historical, or paleontological sites.
I would rather see legislation that allowed rock hounding included with purchase of the Discover Pass which is already required to be on state lands. I think that would raise additional revenue for state parks by getting more rock hounders to buy discover passes.
I think my question with this statement is how many people currently out rock collecting don't have a Discover Pass? If these people already have a Discover Pass whether to use State Parks or use DNR lands then the revenue increase won't be all that much. I also don't think there's really that many rock collectors out there, I may be wrong.
What happens to undergraduate Field Camps?
I assume you mean like geology classes going out in the field?

The current laws for all three agencies state that the director can authorize mineral/rock removal. So basically if the class professor asks DNR if they can remove X amount of rocks and DNR says yes then they can do so.

The current law may say that, but the new law makes no mention of educational exemptions.
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 21, 2015, 10:38:32 AM
I think my question with this statement is how many people currently out rock collecting don't have a Discover Pass? If these people already have a Discover Pass whether to use State Parks or use DNR lands then the revenue increase won't be all that much. I also don't think there's really that many rock collectors out there, I may be wrong.
Im always disgusted at how our legislators dont look at the cost vs Rev on ideas like this If there are not that many rock hounds, and most of them that currently do have a DP it fails to raise any real $... So why push for this legislation?

I still have not seen what problem this bill adresses.
As Bearpaw mentioned it came up during the recreational task force meetings about the lack of opportunity for rock collectors. This is the problem the bill addresses.

I know the Forest Service has a lot of free use permits. Basically you go to the USFS Ranger Station pick up a free mushroom picking permit, it states rules and regulations and your on your way out. It tells the USFS how many people are picking shrooms, allows them to actually tell people the regs, and overall have better control over the collection. But like I said, its free. There is a cost to the USFS for the person distributing the permits, cost in making the permits, etc.

Maybe a state free rock collecting permit is something that can be looked at. At least then you know how many people are doing it and can provide them with the regs.
Could be free like Gold and Fish?
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: bigtex on January 21, 2015, 10:39:16 AM
I get bashed all the time when I say other states do it. My point isn't to say well if Montana is doing it, why shouldn't we. But rather to show that it's not something new that some crazy legislator in WA came up with. I just did a simple Google search and found that both Utah and Montana have similar permits and I'd be willing to bet there are more. Montana has a $10 Special Recreational Use Permit for use on state lands for the following activities: overnight horseback use, trapping, outfitting, group use, cutting or gathering of firewood, collecting valuable rocks and minerals, mineral exploration, collection or disturbance of archaeological, historical, or paleontological sites.
I would rather see legislation that allowed rock hounding included with purchase of the Discover Pass which is already required to be on state lands. I think that would raise additional revenue for state parks by getting more rock hounders to buy discover passes.
I think my question with this statement is how many people currently out rock collecting don't have a Discover Pass? If these people already have a Discover Pass whether to use State Parks or use DNR lands then the revenue increase won't be all that much. I also don't think there's really that many rock collectors out there, I may be wrong.
What happens to undergraduate Field Camps?
I assume you mean like geology classes going out in the field?

The current laws for all three agencies state that the director can authorize mineral/rock removal. So basically if the class professor asks DNR if they can remove X amount of rocks and DNR says yes then they can do so.
The current law may say that, but the new law makes no mention of educational exemptions.
The proposed law doesn't change existing state law. The rock collection permit basically falls under the authorization of the director. So basically it just opens up rock collecting to recreational use, all other current activities still apply.
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: Special T on January 21, 2015, 10:42:29 AM
I think my question with this statement is how many people currently out rock collecting don't have a Discover Pass? If these people already have a Discover Pass whether to use State Parks or use DNR lands then the revenue increase won't be all that much. I also don't think there's really that many rock collectors out there, I may be wrong.
Im always disgusted at how our legislators dont look at the cost vs Rev on ideas like this If there are not that many rock hounds, and most of them that currently do have a DP it fails to raise any real $... So why push for this legislation?

I still have not seen what problem this bill adresses.
As Bearpaw mentioned it came up during the recreational task force meetings about the lack of opportunity for rock collectors. This is the problem the bill addresses.

I know the Forest Service has a lot of free use permits. Basically you go to the USFS Ranger Station pick up a free mushroom picking permit, it states rules and regulations and your on your way out. It tells the USFS how many people are picking shrooms, allows them to actually tell people the regs, and overall have better control over the collection. But like I said, its free. There is a cost to the USFS for the person distributing the permits, cost in making the permits, etc.

Maybe a state free rock collecting permit is something that can be looked at. At least then you know how many people are doing it and can provide them with the regs.

Wow...the effort to used to adress such a pressing issue...
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: bearpaw on January 21, 2015, 11:43:38 AM
I think my question with this statement is how many people currently out rock collecting don't have a Discover Pass? If these people already have a Discover Pass whether to use State Parks or use DNR lands then the revenue increase won't be all that much. I also don't think there's really that many rock collectors out there, I may be wrong.
Im always disgusted at how our legislators dont look at the cost vs Rev on ideas like this If there are not that many rock hounds, and most of them that currently do have a DP it fails to raise any real $... So why push for this legislation?

I still have not seen what problem this bill adresses.
As Bearpaw mentioned it came up during the recreational task force meetings about the lack of opportunity for rock collectors. This is the problem the bill addresses.

I know the Forest Service has a lot of free use permits. Basically you go to the USFS Ranger Station pick up a free mushroom picking permit, it states rules and regulations and your on your way out. It tells the USFS how many people are picking shrooms, allows them to actually tell people the regs, and overall have better control over the collection. But like I said, its free. There is a cost to the USFS for the person distributing the permits, cost in making the permits, etc.

Maybe a state free rock collecting permit is something that can be looked at. At least then you know how many people are doing it and can provide them with the regs.

Wow...the effort to used to adress such a pressing issue...

As hunters we probably don't see this as a pressing issue but this issue is important to rock collectors and this was made clear at the task force meetings. Please understand, if you go to state land and pick up a single rock to put in your yard or flower garden you would be considered rock hounding!

I do applaud Rep Buys for trying to address the issue but I do think this would be better addressed by simply including rock hounding (up to a certain amount of rock) as an included activity in the Discover Pass which is already fairly costly. I think the legislation would have a better chance of passing and more public support if it wasn't creating another entirely new permit needed in addition to the Discover Pass.

I am wondering if some of you would consider it more acceptable if rock hounding on state lands was included as part of the Discover Pass, would you support that?

Law enforcement could still enforce the DP requirement without needing to write a ticket for anyone picking up a rock and taking it home!
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: KFhunter on January 21, 2015, 12:05:40 PM
I think it should be addressed just like the gold pamphlet,  a free permit and/or literature must be in your possession when digging rock.

I do want enforcement for commercial rock hounding, those guys picking truck loads to resale on CL as landscaping pavers.



A good location with nice flat rock is kept more tight lipped than an elk hunters honey hole.

 
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: lokidog on January 21, 2015, 05:49:39 PM

As hunters we probably don't see this as a pressing issue but this issue is important to rock collectors and this was made clear at the task force meetings. Please understand, if you go to state land and pick up a single rock to put in your yard or flower garden you would be considered rock hounding!

I do applaud Rep Buys for trying to address the issue but I do think this would be better addressed by simply including rock hounding (up to a certain amount of rock) as an included activity in the Discover Pass which is already fairly costly. I think the legislation would have a better chance of passing and more public support if it wasn't creating another entirely new permit needed in addition to the Discover Pass.

I am wondering if some of you would consider it more acceptable if rock hounding on state lands was included as part of the Discover Pass, would you support that?

Law enforcement could still enforce the DP requirement without needing to write a ticket for anyone picking up a rock and taking it home!

YES!
Title: Re: HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands
Post by: CAMPMEAT on January 21, 2015, 06:08:59 PM
The gubmint can't control thier spending and we are forced into more taxes, hidden as a fee, without a vote or say so.
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