HB 1271 Creating Rock Collecting Permit for State Lands

[bigtex]

Can you hear the sirens blazong if someone happens to pick up a rock without a permit. 

Realistically, an officer would be more justified right now to have their "sirens blazong" if someone was removing rocks then they would if this bill passed.

As I have already said, right now it's a misdemeanor to remove rocks from state lands. If this passes it'll be a infraction (ticket.)

So I see a cool rock I can't take without it being a misdameanor now?  just  My dad collected rocks for years never seen the rock police out

I don't know where you got the "now" part?? It's always been a misdemeanor to remove rocks from state lands.

whatever I never knew that not until now never heard of such a thing.

seems like a stupid law anyhows arrest someone for removing a small pebble or colorfull rock OMG!

Just like being arrested for not wearing the safety bracelet on a jetski.

And just think, prior to 1979 you could be arrested for literally any offense in WA.

[csaaphill]

Can you hear the sirens blazong if someone happens to pick up a rock without a permit. 

Realistically, an officer would be more justified right now to have their "sirens blazong" if someone was removing rocks then they would if this bill passed.

As I have already said, right now it's a misdemeanor to remove rocks from state lands. If this passes it'll be a infraction (ticket.)

So I see a cool rock I can't take without it being a misdameanor now?  just  My dad collected rocks for years never seen the rock police out

I don't know where you got the "now" part?? It's always been a misdemeanor to remove rocks from state lands.

whatever I never knew that not until now never heard of such a thing.

seems like a stupid law anyhows arrest someone for removing a small pebble or colorfull rock OMG!

Just like being arrested for not wearing the safety bracelet on a jetski.

And just think, prior to 1979 you could be arrested for literally any offense in WA.

enlighten us. Still safety shouldn't always and I repeat always have a law added to it. Just one more way to collect money from people who don't hold to the Majority's way of thinking. It's a abritrary law that makes a person a criminal over Rocks, or not wearing some bracelet 

[Elkaholic daWg]

 And in some cases, I would bet far from the majority  (could be wrong, but you know what they bay about a blind squirrel).I swear that some folks in positions of authority  need to walk a mile on the other side of all these control ideas they love to come up with.

[fireweed]

Since any kind of removal of rocks, minerals, flowers and as I was told by a park ranger today even sheds is illegal  would this effect the Ginko petrified forest state park?

WDFW, DNR, and State Parks can closed areas to collection. The law also said petrified items are not to be removed.

Bigtex
Please clarify for us all what is and isn't allowed for rock collecting.  Some previous posts (from gold panners) said this was covered by rules already.  Is that just for streams and gold panners?  Is it truly illegal to pick up a rock on all DNR land?  WDFW land? State parks I can believe.

 I absolutely abhor laws that turn regular folks into criminals. These laws are usually that are put in place to stop real thieves (probably taking truckloads of gravel from state land) but technically  apply to kids  playing in the creek.

[lokidog]

You know, I think it is illegal to pick up driftwood from the beach as well since it all belongs to the state... all of you with duck mounts on driftwood, better lock your doors and cover your windows.     I'd bette get my seashell (empty) and sand dollar (dead) permit in order too.   

[bigtex]

Can you hear the sirens blazong if someone happens to pick up a rock without a permit. 

Realistically, an officer would be more justified right now to have their "sirens blazong" if someone was removing rocks then they would if this bill passed.

As I have already said, right now it's a misdemeanor to remove rocks from state lands. If this passes it'll be a infraction (ticket.)

So I see a cool rock I can't take without it being a misdameanor now?  just  My dad collected rocks for years never seen the rock police out

I don't know where you got the "now" part?? It's always been a misdemeanor to remove rocks from state lands.

whatever I never knew that not until now never heard of such a thing.

seems like a stupid law anyhows arrest someone for removing a small pebble or colorfull rock OMG!

Just like being arrested for not wearing the safety bracelet on a jetski.

And just think, prior to 1979 you could be arrested for literally any offense in WA.

enlighten us. Still safety shouldn't always and I repeat always have a law added to it. Just one more way to collect money from people who don't hold to the Majority's way of thinking. It's a abritrary law that makes a person a criminal over Rocks, or not wearing some bracelet 

Prior to 1979 every offense in WA was a crime, as such you could be arrested for any offense.

In 1979 the legislature created traffic infractions, which are not crimes and you can't be arrested or be sentenced to jail for them.

In 1987 the legislature created civil infractions and natural resource infractions. Similar to the above, you can't be arrested or be sentenced to jail for them.

Since 1987 just about every year there are criminal offenses that are turned into civil infractions. Basically the legislature opens their eyes and sees that someone can be arrested for an offense that should be handled by simply a ticket. As an example, in 2012 15 fish and wildlife offenses were reclassified from a crime to an infraction.

There are a ton of natural resource related offenses which are important, but are classified as a crime and as such makes it impossible to prosecute someone. Someone who destroys a huckleberry bush with a rake commits a gross misdemeanor, there is not a prosecutor in this state that is going to take that case. Just an example of an offense that should be an infraction and not a crime.

[bigtex]

Since any kind of removal of rocks, minerals, flowers and as I was told by a park ranger today even sheds is illegal  would this effect the Ginko petrified forest state park?

WDFW, DNR, and State Parks can closed areas to collection. The law also said petrified items are not to be removed.

Bigtex
Please clarify for us all what is and isn't allowed for rock collecting.  Some previous posts (from gold panners) said this was covered by rules already.  Is that just for streams and gold panners?  Is it truly illegal to pick up a rock on all DNR land?  WDFW land? State parks I can believe.

 I absolutely abhor laws that turn regular folks into criminals. These laws are usually that are put in place to stop real thieves (probably taking truckloads of gravel from state land) but technically  apply to kids  playing in the creek.

The current laws that others have mentioned are under the gold and fish pamphlet and only apply to bodies of water.

So yes if you driving in the Colockum Wildlife Area, pick up a few rocks and throw them in the truck you just committed a crime.

Like you said, the laws are mainly enforced on the guys with the buckets of rocks, but do apply to anyone. There is no weight limit where under a certain weight its an infraction and over it its a crime.

[bearpaw]

This rock hounding issue came up in the Recreational Parks task force meetings. I think Rep Buys means well and is trying to make it legal for rock hounds to collect rocks, because as mentioned currently it may not be legal to pick them up. This would also bolster the Discover Pass revenue for state parks which is falling short so that undoubtedly is one of the intended benefits of the legislation.

But I voted no in the poll, I am tired of permits for every little thing we do in our lives. I could understand if a permit was required to mine (remove large amounts of rock) but I think it should be legal for a rock hound to pick up small amounts of rock without a permit.

I would rather see legislation that allowed rock hounding included with purchase of the Discover Pass which is already required to be on state lands. I think that would raise additional revenue for state parks by getting more rock hounders to buy discover passes. I am not in favor of creating additional permits or writing tickets to people simply for adding rocks to their rock collection.

[bigtex]

I get bashed all the time when I say other states do it. My point isn't to say well if Montana is doing it, why shouldn't we. But rather to show that it's not something new that some crazy legislator in WA came up with. I just did a simple Google search and found that both Utah and Montana have similar permits and I'd be willing to bet there are more. Montana has a $10 Special Recreational Use Permit for use on state lands for the following activities: overnight horseback use, trapping, outfitting, group use, cutting or gathering of firewood, collecting valuable rocks and minerals, mineral exploration, collection or disturbance of archaeological, historical, or paleontological sites.

I would rather see legislation that allowed rock hounding included with purchase of the Discover Pass which is already required to be on state lands. I think that would raise additional revenue for state parks by getting more rock hounders to buy discover passes.

I think my question with this statement is how many people currently out rock collecting don't have a Discover Pass? If these people already have a Discover Pass whether to use State Parks or use DNR lands then the revenue increase won't be all that much. I also don't think there's really that many rock collectors out there, I may be wrong.

[montana44mag]

Can you hear the sirens blazong if someone happens to pick up a rock without a permit. 
Er how about the choke holds that would be done because someone not holding a $5 permitt

If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about.  Otherwise, beat em, tase em, shoot em, they are criminals cause a piece of paper says so! 

"No officer, I swear, I was just using this rock to hammer down my tent stakes...hey....wait...er"...bzzzzzzzz...POP*, POP*

[Special T]

I think my question with this statement is how many people currently out rock collecting don't have a Discover Pass? If these people already have a Discover Pass whether to use State Parks or use DNR lands then the revenue increase won't be all that much. I also don't think there's really that many rock collectors out there, I may be wrong.

Im always disgusted at how our legislators dont look at the cost vs Rev on ideas like this If there are not that many rock hounds, and most of them that currently do have a DP it fails to raise any real $... So why push for this legislation?

I still have not seen what problem this bill adresses.

[Knocker of rocks]

I get bashed all the time when I say other states do it. My point isn't to say well if Montana is doing it, why shouldn't we. But rather to show that it's not something new that some crazy legislator in WA came up with. I just did a simple Google search and found that both Utah and Montana have similar permits and I'd be willing to bet there are more. Montana has a $10 Special Recreational Use Permit for use on state lands for the following activities: overnight horseback use, trapping, outfitting, group use, cutting or gathering of firewood, collecting valuable rocks and minerals, mineral exploration, collection or disturbance of archaeological, historical, or paleontological sites.

I would rather see legislation that allowed rock hounding included with purchase of the Discover Pass which is already required to be on state lands. I think that would raise additional revenue for state parks by getting more rock hounders to buy discover passes.

I think my question with this statement is how many people currently out rock collecting don't have a Discover Pass? If these people already have a Discover Pass whether to use State Parks or use DNR lands then the revenue increase won't be all that much. I also don't think there's really that many rock collectors out there, I may be wrong.

What happens to undergraduate Field Camps?

[bigtex]

I think my question with this statement is how many people currently out rock collecting don't have a Discover Pass? If these people already have a Discover Pass whether to use State Parks or use DNR lands then the revenue increase won't be all that much. I also don't think there's really that many rock collectors out there, I may be wrong.

Im always disgusted at how our legislators dont look at the cost vs Rev on ideas like this If there are not that many rock hounds, and most of them that currently do have a DP it fails to raise any real $... So why push for this legislation?

I still have not seen what problem this bill adresses.

As Bearpaw mentioned it came up during the recreational task force meetings about the lack of opportunity for rock collectors. This is the problem the bill addresses.

I know the Forest Service has a lot of free use permits. Basically you go to the USFS Ranger Station pick up a free mushroom picking permit, it states rules and regulations and your on your way out. It tells the USFS how many people are picking shrooms, allows them to actually tell people the regs, and overall have better control over the collection. But like I said, its free. There is a cost to the USFS for the person distributing the permits, cost in making the permits, etc.

Maybe a state free rock collecting permit is something that can be looked at. At least then you know how many people are doing it and can provide them with the regs.

[bigtex]

I get bashed all the time when I say other states do it. My point isn't to say well if Montana is doing it, why shouldn't we. But rather to show that it's not something new that some crazy legislator in WA came up with. I just did a simple Google search and found that both Utah and Montana have similar permits and I'd be willing to bet there are more. Montana has a $10 Special Recreational Use Permit for use on state lands for the following activities: overnight horseback use, trapping, outfitting, group use, cutting or gathering of firewood, collecting valuable rocks and minerals, mineral exploration, collection or disturbance of archaeological, historical, or paleontological sites.

I would rather see legislation that allowed rock hounding included with purchase of the Discover Pass which is already required to be on state lands. I think that would raise additional revenue for state parks by getting more rock hounders to buy discover passes.

I think my question with this statement is how many people currently out rock collecting don't have a Discover Pass? If these people already have a Discover Pass whether to use State Parks or use DNR lands then the revenue increase won't be all that much. I also don't think there's really that many rock collectors out there, I may be wrong.

What happens to undergraduate Field Camps?

I assume you mean like geology classes going out in the field?

The current laws for all three agencies state that the director can authorize mineral/rock removal. So basically if the class professor asks DNR if they can remove X amount of rocks and DNR says yes then they can do so.

[Knocker of rocks]

I get bashed all the time when I say other states do it. My point isn't to say well if Montana is doing it, why shouldn't we. But rather to show that it's not something new that some crazy legislator in WA came up with. I just did a simple Google search and found that both Utah and Montana have similar permits and I'd be willing to bet there are more. Montana has a $10 Special Recreational Use Permit for use on state lands for the following activities: overnight horseback use, trapping, outfitting, group use, cutting or gathering of firewood, collecting valuable rocks and minerals, mineral exploration, collection or disturbance of archaeological, historical, or paleontological sites.

I would rather see legislation that allowed rock hounding included with purchase of the Discover Pass which is already required to be on state lands. I think that would raise additional revenue for state parks by getting more rock hounders to buy discover passes.

I think my question with this statement is how many people currently out rock collecting don't have a Discover Pass? If these people already have a Discover Pass whether to use State Parks or use DNR lands then the revenue increase won't be all that much. I also don't think there's really that many rock collectors out there, I may be wrong.

What happens to undergraduate Field Camps?

I assume you mean like geology classes going out in the field?

The current laws for all three agencies state that the director can authorize mineral/rock removal. So basically if the class professor asks DNR if they can remove X amount of rocks and DNR says yes then they can do so.

The current law may say that, but the new law makes no mention of educational exemptions.