Post by: lamrith on January 22, 2015, 08:13:22 PM
The problem is he has never hunted the rut or archery so we are at a bit of a loss on where the animals might typically be in early Archery timeframe. (Sept 11-24).
App deadline is a couple weeks away and I am hoping someone might have some insight or recommendations on priority to put in for those units, and maybe any other guidance. 3B obviously the easiest as we could base out of the house, but any help would be appreciated.
Post by: T Pearce on January 22, 2015, 08:35:02 PM
Ive hunted 5A back in '86..... doubt much has changed :chuckle:
I miss the rim country. Good luck to you.
Post by: WAcoueshunter on January 22, 2015, 08:47:13 PM
Post by: lamrith on January 23, 2015, 05:33:49 AM
I know my draw odds are pretty low because of that, part of the challenge I am facing in regards to prioritizing vs draw odds for each hunt. 3b is by far the most convenient but the draw odds are low, though not as low as 1/2c/2b or 3a/3c.
Post by: Bean Counter on January 23, 2015, 06:22:29 AM
- throw a dart in the map
- go there
Any questions?
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 23, 2015, 06:28:14 AM
Post by: Bean Counter on January 23, 2015, 06:59:58 AM
Post by: lamrith on January 23, 2015, 07:24:27 AM
Appreciate the info bigtime. :tup:
I have a sinking feeling my few points are gone, so likely starting from scratch, but we will see. Sounds like I go 3B as #1 choice.
Post by: Tbob on January 23, 2015, 09:28:10 AM
Post by: Band on January 23, 2015, 09:32:24 AM
Hunting elk in my new home state of Arizona is as follows:Yes, one question. Where did your dart land when you threw it at the map? :chuckle:
- throw a dart in the map
- go there
Any questions?
Post by: WAcoueshunter on January 23, 2015, 10:04:10 AM
Very few points, don't know because I have not put in to hunt down there in years.
I know my draw odds are pretty low because of that, part of the challenge I am facing in regards to prioritizing vs draw odds for each hunt. 3b is by far the most convenient but the draw odds are low, though not as low as 1/2b/2c or 3a/3c.
Unfortunately as a Non Resident you can't draw 1/2b/2c without being in the max point pool. There might be a few NR tags for 3a/3c, 3b or 27 that slip into the random draw.
Look here: http://www.azgfd.gov/eservices/documents/bonus/5-2014/2014%20Pronghorn%20and%20Elk%20-%20Bonus%20Point%20Report%20-%20Bonus%20Pass%20by%20Hunt%20Number.pdf (http://www.azgfd.gov/eservices/documents/bonus/5-2014/2014%20Pronghorn%20and%20Elk%20-%20Bonus%20Point%20Report%20-%20Bonus%20Pass%20by%20Hunt%20Number.pdf)
1/2c/2b was hunt # 3118. There were 17 first choice applicants with 13 points, but only 9 drew in the bonus pass round. But yet there were applicants with 12 and 11 points that also drew in the bonus pass round. Only way that happens is if the 10% NR cap is met at or above 13 points. Meaning not a single NR with 12 or fewer points drew one of these tags for 2014. That happens every year for this hunt. Same with Units 9, 10, 23, and others.
Another thing to think about with 3b is that there are only 7 or 8 NR tags. So again, you can imagine that those few tags could very easily get issued each year in the bonus pass round, possibly leaving zero for people without max points.
3a/3c and 27 both issue a good number of tags (because there's a ton of elk there), and it appears that the NR cap may not get met in the bonus pass round. So I might focus there, if for no other reason than at least you have a chance to draw.
Post by: Bean Counter on January 23, 2015, 10:14:48 AM
Bean Stop teasing! Joking aside my Step dad said that he saw a guy pull a nice big bull out of the unit early archery in Sept so they are in there.
was that this guy? 8)
Post by: Bean Counter on January 23, 2015, 10:22:38 AM
AZ is a great place to hunt! I just got back last week from a javelina/deer archery hunt. Listen to Bean! He knows what's up! Oh and Bean I tried to Pm you back a few times but your in box was full. I didn't shoot anything, but saw a few critters. I used my bino's more there in 4 days than I have here in western wa the last five years combined.
:sry:
I cleared some space but good to hear back from you. I'm curious if you checked out some of those places I tipped you off to (PM if you want). Yes, in the southern desert you're going to use your glass like never before. However on my elk hunt up north last year I didn't even bother to bring my spotting scope because it was flat and forested.
Post by: Bean Counter on January 23, 2015, 10:33:01 AM
Very few points, don't know because I have not put in to hunt down there in years.
I know my draw odds are pretty low because of that, part of the challenge I am facing in regards to prioritizing vs draw odds for each hunt. 3b is by far the most convenient but the draw odds are low, though not as low as 1/2b/2c or 3a/3c.
Unfortunately as a Non Resident you can't draw 1/2b/2c without being in the max point pool. There might be a few NR tags for 3a/3c, 3b or 27 that slip into the random draw.
Look here: http://www.azgfd.gov/eservices/documents/bonus/5-2014/2014%20Pronghorn%20and%20Elk%20-%20Bonus%20Point%20Report%20-%20Bonus%20Pass%20by%20Hunt%20Number.pdf (http://www.azgfd.gov/eservices/documents/bonus/5-2014/2014%20Pronghorn%20and%20Elk%20-%20Bonus%20Point%20Report%20-%20Bonus%20Pass%20by%20Hunt%20Number.pdf)
1/2c/2b was hunt # 3118. There were 17 first choice applicants with 13 points, but only 9 drew in the bonus pass round. But yet there were applicants with 12 and 11 points that also drew in the bonus pass round. Only way that happens is if the 10% NR cap is met at or above 13 points. Meaning not a single NR with 12 or fewer points drew one of these tags for 2014. That happens every year for this hunt. Same with Units 9, 10, 23, and others.
Another thing to think about with 3b is that there are only 7 or 8 NR tags. So again, you can imagine that those few tags could very easily get issued each year in the bonus pass round, possibly leaving zero for people without max points.
3a/3c and 27 both issue a good number of tags (because there's a ton of elk there), and it appears that the NR cap may not get met in the bonus pass round. So I might focus there, if for no other reason than at least you have a chance to draw.
Just my preference but here is how I would rate those hunt choices
- 1/2a/2b
- 3A/3C
- 3B
- 27
But, opinions are like _ _ _ _ _.
Post by: lamrith on January 23, 2015, 10:38:17 AM
Bean Stop teasing! Joking aside my Step dad said that he saw a guy pull a nice big bull out of the unit early archery in Sept so they are in there.
was that this guy? 8)
No idea, he did not take a picture, I think he just ran into the hunter in town and talked to him about it briefly and was told it was taken there in 3b. Benefit of living right in the middle of the unit right off Rt60 (a mile or two from 60/61 split) is he gets to see lots of hunters traversing in/out of the unit during the season.
Post by: lamrith on January 23, 2015, 11:51:35 AM
Thanks for the guidance on selections as well.. course you are probably trying to keep me out of your special little unit 3b.. I see how it is.. :chuckle:
Post by: WAcoueshunter on January 23, 2015, 01:48:46 PM
Just my preference but here is how I would rate those hunt choices
- 1/2a/2b
- 3A/3C
- 3B
- 27
But, opinions are like _ _ _ _ _.
Unfortunately in AZ it's not about the quality of a particular tag, but what you can draw as a NR. Without 13 points, the Unit 1 tag is literally out of the question. Good chance 3B is out of the question too without 8+ points, given the limited number of tags. But given his circumstances, I'd probably put down 3B and 3A/3C as the two choices, then plan on hunting a different state for the next several years.
Post by: lamrith on January 23, 2015, 02:00:14 PM
Yeah I know this is probably going to be an invstement for a while to build up, just figure make the choices count while I try. I am here in WA, so can always pull OTC deer and elk tags like last year and hope I actually drop something..
Just my preference but here is how I would rate those hunt choices
- 1/2a/2b
- 3A/3C
- 3B
- 27
But, opinions are like _ _ _ _ _.
Unfortunately in AZ it's not about the quality of a particular tag, but what you can draw as a NR. Without 13 points, the Unit 1 tag is literally out of the question. Good chance 3B is out of the question too without 8+ points, given the limited number of tags. But given his circumstances, I'd probably put down 3B and 3A/3C as the two choices, then plan on hunting a different state for the next several years.
Post by: 3dvapor on January 31, 2015, 07:31:36 AM
Post by: ridgefire on January 31, 2015, 01:20:53 PM
Post by: WAcoueshunter on January 31, 2015, 02:08:47 PM
If i had family in arizona i would consider becoming a resident for a year and buy a lifetime lic. That way when u change residency back to washington u can apply with the resident draw. :twocents: im banking on 23n with 19points.
It doesn't work like that. You save the cost of a NR license, but you're still a NR for the draw and have to draw and pay for a NR permit.
Post by: hunterrcc on February 08, 2015, 12:13:13 PM
Post by: lamrith on February 08, 2015, 12:21:28 PM
You can also just buy a point directly by obtaining a license and then applying for the bonus point hunt for the animal you want the point for (deer, elk, etc) So you can front the $825 to take part in the draw for elk, not get drawn and get all but $175 back, or just pay $175 and gain a point.
I do not fully understand the draw process yet, but going on what has been posted by those that do, my tough decision now is that this hunt is to hunt with a family member living down there. Given the info previously posted I am looking a min of 8yrs which is going to put him in his mid/upper 70's. :-/
Post by: Bean Counter on February 08, 2015, 12:21:59 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on February 08, 2015, 12:26:37 PM
The Regs had a little conflicting info on License fees, just an FYI License fees are NOT refunded if you are not draw, only the Tag fee minus $15 is refunded.. So to apply and not get drawn is $175 to "buy" your point for the year.. You can also just buy a point directly by obtaining a license and then applying for the bonus point hunt for the animal you want the point for (deer, elk, etc)
Correct. If I were a non resident and wanted access to the elk points and could afford it, you might as well buy deer, sheep, and maybe buffalo points as well, given the comparatively higher cost to get a license as per individual species points.. :twocents:
Post by: lamrith on February 08, 2015, 12:32:24 PM
I am not following? points I think are collected per genus, not combined? Why would I want to buy Buffalo or sheep?The Regs had a little conflicting info on License fees, just an FYI License fees are NOT refunded if you are not draw, only the Tag fee minus $15 is refunded.. So to apply and not get drawn is $175 to "buy" your point for the year.. You can also just buy a point directly by obtaining a license and then applying for the bonus point hunt for the animal you want the point for (deer, elk, etc)
Correct. If I were a non resident and wanted access to the elk points and could afford it, you might as well buy deer, sheep, and maybe buffalo points as well, given the comparatively higher cost to get a license as per individual species points.. :twocents:
I may very well do a deer hunt with him instead of elk, as there are usually left over tags after 1st draw where he hunts, just have to wait for those regs to come out..
Post by: Bean Counter on February 08, 2015, 12:38:10 PM
By contrast in a state like Wyoming or Colorado, you can just buy your points ala carte. There's no steep initial investment cost. I only buy a deer point in CO.
Post by: lamrith on February 08, 2015, 12:43:57 PM
Well if it were me, and I had to pay $135 just for a non resident license before I could buy a $13 point for elk, you might as well spend another $13 on a deer point and another $13 on a buffalo point. Just what I would do. :twocents:
By contrast in a state like Wyoming or Colorado, you can just buy your points ala carte. There's no steep initial investment cost. I only buy a deer point in CO.
Ahh ok.. Yeah I may very well hunt modern deer with him down there, deadline for elk is Monday and we plan to make final decision then for elk. I might just buy license and the elk point. Prices went up too $160 for NR license, $15/ NR application fee.
Post by: Bean Counter on February 08, 2015, 12:48:31 PM
I think all the prices are a bit steep. Its $121 for me as a RESIDENTto get an elk tag--even cow elk :bash:
Post by: AZcoueshunter78 on February 13, 2015, 09:45:23 PM
Post by: az_shooter on February 14, 2015, 04:24:37 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on February 14, 2015, 05:28:41 PM
The deadline was extended by a day. Last minute apps crashed the website and hunters were unable to access it. Given the choice to reward those who didn't wait until the last minute and extending the deadline to collect more money, which do you think the cash strapped bureaucracy opted for?? :rolleyes: