Post by: mulehunter on February 05, 2015, 02:10:17 PM
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Bill-calls-for-relocating-wolves-through-state-290968971.html (http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Bill-calls-for-relocating-wolves-through-state-290968971.html)
SPOKANE, Wash. (AP) - A bill proposed by an Eastern Washington lawmaker who says wolves should be relocated to parts of the state where the animals are more popular was set to be heard Thursday by a legislative committee.
Eleven of the 14 wolf packs in the state are located in the district of Rep. Joel Kretz, R-Wauconda. The packs have created conflicts with ranchers and other residents.
His bill is one of several wolf-related measures scheduled to be heard in the House Committee on Agriculture and Natural Resources in Olympia.
Other bills would order the state Fish and Wildlife Department to manage wolf problems by lethal means under certain circumstances, and give the Fish and Wildlife Commission more leeway on changing a state endangered species classification.
Fish and Wildlife estimates that at the end of 2013, there were at least 52 wolves in 13 packs roaming Eastern Washington.
Wildlife officials say the state's best wolf habitat is the southern Cascade Mountains, where federal lands support more than 20,000 elk. Biologists believe wolves will naturally migrate to the area by 2022.
Kretz wants to speed the process and has introduced a bill requiring the Department of Fish and Wildlife to relocate wolves to other parts of the state.
"Most of the support in the state for wolves ... comes from areas where there are no wolves," Kretz told The Spokesman-Review.
Last year he sponsored a bill to capture Eastern Washington wolves and transplant them to the districts of West Side legislators opposed to any controls on the predators.
Kretz said his new bill is serious and intended to speed up the dispersal of wolves, which in turn would hasten the removal of federal and state protections for the animals.
Under the state's recovery plan, wolves will remain a protected species until at least 15 breeding pairs are documented across the state for three years. Wolves must be geographically spread so there are breeding pairs in Eastern Washington, north-central Washington and a big region that includes the southern Cascades and Western Washington.
State officials and environmental groups prefer that wolves migrate to new regions on their own. Wolf tracks have already been found northwest of Yakima. Last spring, a photo of a wolf was taken in Klickitat County.
A proposed wolf relocation pilot project outlined in Kretz's bill would cost about $1 million, according to state estimates.
Kretz said ranchers in northeastern Washington need faster action to protect their animals from wolf attacks.
The debate over wolves illustrates a divide in the Pacific Northwest between rural areas and urban centers.
Rural residents contend their more liberal counterparts in cities don't understand the realities of living among predators, including the danger to the public and livestock.
Advocates contend the state is the native habitat of wolves, and the animals have a positive impact on areas where elk would otherwise destroy grassland.
Wolves were killed off in Washington in the early 1900s. But earlier this century, they started to return, migrating from Idaho and British Columbia.
Last summer was difficult for ranchers in northeastern Washington. At least 33 sheep were killed or injured by wolves and a cow and calf were killed.
Post by: Curly on February 05, 2015, 02:29:21 PM
Post by: jasnt on February 05, 2015, 02:30:24 PM
Just figured this thread should be linked here
Post by: wolfbait on February 06, 2015, 10:31:28 AM
"Naturally Migrate" is another word for "confirm", in other words until there is a confirmed livestock kill, or wolves at a bus stop the wolves won't naturally migrate. If wolves do "migrate to an area, the pack will no longer produce pups, until another forced confirmation is in order.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on February 06, 2015, 11:06:54 AM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on February 06, 2015, 11:10:23 AM
Post by: wolfbait on February 06, 2015, 12:17:26 PM
2022? Ha! What are those bios on? Have they not been following all the other big solo wolf migrations? Going to SW WA isn't exactly crossing the Sahara.
I bet if a guy was to roll around SW WA with a wolf howler about midnight he could find quite a few wolves that have already "migrated".
Post by: kodiak 907 on February 06, 2015, 01:10:05 PM
Post by: jackmaster on February 06, 2015, 01:17:31 PM
Post by: kodiak 907 on February 06, 2015, 01:26:28 PM
I say bring them on over. Might help out with the cat problem on the west side as well.
Post by: kentrek on February 06, 2015, 01:47:02 PM
2022? Ha! What are those bios on? Have they not been following all the other big solo wolf migrations? Going to SW WA isn't exactly crossing the Sahara.
I bet if a guy was to roll around SW WA with a wolf howler about midnight he could find quite a few wolves that have already "migrated".
I can't even find a track
Post by: Curly on February 06, 2015, 02:53:13 PM
I marked a red X where they should consider dropping off a pack, but that won't happen so maybe the blue X? :dunno: Drop them outside the rez and let them work their way onto it.
Quote
There are 15,000 horses trying to survive on the reservation’s 410,000 acres of shrubb-steppe rangeland, 10 times more than experts believe the land can sustain.
This overpopulation puts the horses at risk of starvation, especially in the winter. But a Yakama Nation report shows that overpopulation also destroys the range’s fragile vegetation, spreads weeds, damages wetlands and reduces the land’s ability to support native wildlife.
horse overpopulation article (http://www.yakimaherald.com/news/latestlocalnews/1788077-8/yakama-land-cant-sustain-growing-wild-horse-population)
Post by: JimmyHoffa on February 06, 2015, 03:14:44 PM
:yeah:yeah, a cat killed a horse recently on the wet side.
I say bring them on over. Might help out with the cat problem on the west side as well.
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Residents-on-alert-after-cougar-kills-horse-in-Kitsap-County-291002661.html (http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Residents-on-alert-after-cougar-kills-horse-in-Kitsap-County-291002661.html)
Post by: Curly on February 06, 2015, 03:39:34 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on February 06, 2015, 03:58:17 PM
:yeah:HUH ? I would rather have cougars around rather than some damn wolves :bdid: I can appreciate the cougar but I can not stand hearing about all this wolf crap ..Yeah they can bring them over and I will gladly help with the reproduction ;) Soon as one gets killed they will have a warrant for my house ! Lmao
I say bring them on over. Might help out with the cat problem on the west side as well.
Post by: Curly on February 06, 2015, 04:02:08 PM
Post by: GBoyd on February 06, 2015, 04:11:31 PM
Post by: Curly on February 06, 2015, 04:13:41 PM
Wolves were killed off in Washington in the early 1900s. But earlier this century, they started to return, migrating from Idaho and British Columbia.There is that lie again the reporters keep telling it about wolves. I guess they figure it becomes true if they tell it enough.
I know for a fact wolves were in the north cascades in the early 90's since I saw them. I think I read the other day about wolves in the state in the 80's. Maybe the wolf huggers just want to take credit for the wolves and they can't take credit for the earlier ones? ???
Post by: JimmyHoffa on February 06, 2015, 04:15:01 PM
The article says that the bios and environmentalist oppose this. Any idea why?Because they would have the pack numbers to speed up delisting==wolves getting shot.
Post by: GBoyd on February 06, 2015, 04:30:34 PM
The article says that the bios and environmentalist oppose this. Any idea why?Because they would have the pack numbers to speed up delisting==wolves getting shot.
Well, I guess that's true.
Even so, I agree with the people above that wolves could be down in the SW much sooner than 7 years from now.
Post by: Curly on February 06, 2015, 04:31:09 PM
Personally, I think the State and the Feds should get sued for allowing wolves to populate like they have, but to me it seems even worse and a better case for someone to make if they were to transplant them and they start wreaking havoc on livestock. Or what if a person gets killed by a wolf that was transplanted? I assume all transplanted wolves would have collars.
I can see where bios would rather let the wolves naturally move into a location rather than the bio picking the area to drop them. More fingers could be pointed at the biologist decision on relocation area if something goes wrong.
Post by: jasnt on February 06, 2015, 04:54:22 PM
In a pro wolf article in the Seattle Times in 1992, covering an event involving wolf advocates and their hopes for wolf recovery, the story pretty much remains the same as to the existence of wolves in Washington.Wolves were killed off in Washington in the early 1900s. But earlier this century, they started to return, migrating from Idaho and British Columbia.There is that lie again the reporters keep telling it about wolves. I guess they figure it becomes true if they tell it enough.
I know for a fact wolves were in the north cascades in the early 90's since I saw them. I think I read the other day about wolves in the state in the 80's. Maybe the wolf huggers just want to take credit for the wolves and they can't take credit for the earlier ones? ???
Originally planned as part of a recovery program for the northern Rockies, where wolves were brought in, the effort could become unique to Washington because of the apparently burgeoning population.
For example, 100 sightings were reported in 1981, and last year there were 200, ranging as far south as Mount St. Helens, Almak said.
Note: Is it puzzling that an article written in 1992 mentions that “wolves were brought in” to recover wolves in the Northern Rockies?
Again in 1992 a gray wolf was captured and collared in Washington. What was the chatter all about concerning this wolf and others?
Pierce said the animals probably are migrating south from Canada, where wolves still are hunted.
“It appears we’re in the early stages of re-colonization of the former range in Washington,” he said. There’s evidence the animals are breeding as far south as the Glacier Peak Wilderness Area just north of Stevens Pass, Pierce added.
- See more at: http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/06/08/in-washington-feds-opt-for-wolf-introduction-over-recovery/#.dpuf (http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/06/08/in-washington-feds-opt-for-wolf-introduction-over-recovery/#.dpuf)
Very interesting points. What ever happened to those wolves? Why are they talking about wolves brought in in 1992?
Post by: Curly on February 06, 2015, 05:07:34 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on February 06, 2015, 05:10:05 PM
Funny........I think it was '92 that I saw wolves by Lake Wentchee. They even had signs up (I think WDFW had put them up) to warn people of wolves. Why are the wolves today able to reproduce and spread out from NE Washington but the wolves from the 80's and 90's apparently were unable to take hold? :dunno: Makes no sense to me.wasn't that when they closed down coyote hunting in certain areas?
Post by: kodiak 907 on February 06, 2015, 06:07:47 PM
:yeah:HUH ? I would rather have cougars around rather than some damn wolves :bdid: I can appreciate the cougar but I can not stand hearing about all this wolf crap ..Yeah they can bring them over and I will gladly help with the reproduction ;) Soon as one gets killed they will have a warrant for my house ! Lmao
I say bring them on over. Might help out with the cat problem on the west side as well.
Now that's funny, but true. Lmao
Post by: 2labs on February 06, 2015, 06:24:34 PM
The attached map shows the wolf zones.
I marked a red X where they should consider dropping off a pack, but that won't happen so maybe the blue X? :dunno: Drop them outside the rez and let them work their way onto it.QuoteThere are 15,000 horses trying to survive on the reservation’s 410,000 acres of shrubb-steppe rangeland, 10 times more than experts believe the land can sustain.
This overpopulation puts the horses at risk of starvation, especially in the winter. But a Yakama Nation report shows that overpopulation also destroys the range’s fragile vegetation, spreads weeds, damages wetlands and reduces the land’s ability to support native wildlife.
horse overpopulation article (http://www.yakimaherald.com/news/latestlocalnews/1788077-8/yakama-land-cant-sustain-growing-wild-horse-population)
That's prime squatch country Curly!
Post by: Curly on February 06, 2015, 06:59:31 PM
Bigfoot must not eat horses. ???The attached map shows the wolf zones.
I marked a red X where they should consider dropping off a pack, but that won't happen so maybe the blue X? :dunno: Drop them outside the rez and let them work their way onto it.QuoteThere are 15,000 horses trying to survive on the reservation’s 410,000 acres of shrubb-steppe rangeland, 10 times more than experts believe the land can sustain.
This overpopulation puts the horses at risk of starvation, especially in the winter. But a Yakama Nation report shows that overpopulation also destroys the range’s fragile vegetation, spreads weeds, damages wetlands and reduces the land’s ability to support native wildlife.
horse overpopulation article (http://www.yakimaherald.com/news/latestlocalnews/1788077-8/yakama-land-cant-sustain-growing-wild-horse-population)
That's prime squatch country Curly!
Bigfoot probably wouldn't appreciate having wolves to compete with deer or elk.
Hopefully wolves don't get a taste for bighorn sheep. And what about the reintroduction of antelope? I bet wolves would like some of that action.
The EIS for wolf introduction is flawed since they failed to mention bigfoot. ;)
Post by: jasnt on February 06, 2015, 07:06:14 PM
Post by: Curly on February 06, 2015, 09:05:30 PM
:jacked: >:( >:( :tung: :chuckle:
oops :-[
:peep:
Post by: Firedogg on February 06, 2015, 09:08:39 PM
I think I hear some more plinking going on in the forest in the future.
Post by: Ridgeratt on February 06, 2015, 09:11:07 PM
Sort of amazed some of the semi-pro wolfers in here haven't chimed in yet!!
Post by: wolfbait on February 06, 2015, 09:15:14 PM
POSTED ON MARCH 18, 2014
YAKIMA, Wash. — While the population of resident wolves in Washington state has been growing, with four new packs established over the past year, wildlife experts know the next logical place for a new pack could well be in the forested Cascade foothills west of Yakima.
But it isn’t there yet, say state wildlife experts.
“We’re continuing to keep our eyes on the area south of I-90 and west of Yakima,” said Scott Becker, wolf biologist with the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife. “It’s the next area that’s probably going to be populated by wolves at some point in the future.
“But we can’t predict when that’s going to be.”
One would think it’s already happening based on the frequency of anecdotal reports, rumors and sightings of animals that may be wolves — but probably aren’t.
“There’s lots of reports that come in west of Yakima, and a lot of them may turn out to be coyotes or, as in the case earlier this year, a Cascade fox or those types of things,” Becker said. “We haven’t been able to confirm anything. We’ve conducted surveys and there’s thousands of cameras out there as well, and we’ve got nothing solid.
“That doesn’t mean there’s nothing there.”
One thing that is there — and may be slowing wolf expansion into this part of the state — is an already plentiful population of cougars. The big cats, drawn to the same sort of ungulate prey that attracts wolves, have long been well-established on the Central Washington landscape, and are apparently willing to defend their territory against the region’s newest predator — or eat it.
Earlier this month, a cougar killed and partially devoured a radio-collared wolf north of Ellensburg, a year after another collared Washington wolf had been killed by a cougar. This month’s victim was a young male, almost 3 years old, that was believed to be dispersed from the Teanaway pack.
“A lone wolf doesn’t stand a chance against a lion,” Becker said. “A lion’s a pure predator. If you have a pack of wolves, that’s a different story — in that case, I think the lion’s going to run away. But (against) a single wolf, or even two, a lion would be able to hold its own in just about any situation.
“And (cougars killing wolves) may happen more than we know, because those two (fatalities) just happened to be wolves that had radio collars on. Whether that’s happened to uncollared wolves, we don’t know.”
The Teanaway Pack, based in the Teanaway area of western Kittitas County, north and northeast of Cle Elum, is one of 13 packs in the state, based on the WDFW’s annual survey released 10 days ago. While that number counts four new packs, though, the state has only verified five successful breeding pairs and the total number of individual wolves in the survey, 52, constitutes an increase of just one wolf over the previous year’s count.
Three of the four new packs were formed by wolves that split off from the Smackout Pack in northeast Washington, according to WDFW state carnivore specialist Donny Martorello. The fourth new pack, though, the Wenatchee pack, might already be gone or might actually consist of Teanaway pack wolves that are on what biologists are calling “a walkabout.”
Since this time in 2013, when there were multiple photos and sightings of two wolves traveling together — the minimum requirements for a pack, according the state wolf management plan plan — the only evidence of the wolves was two trail-cam photographs captured over this past winter by a landowner in the Pitcher Canyon area southeast of Wenatchee.
“That was the only evidence we’ve had of that pack,” said Dave Volsen, a Wenatchee-based WDFW wildlife biologist. “When they appeared (in early 2013), they met all the requirements to be called a pack, and they’re still what we refer to as the Wenatchee pack in that area.
“But in reality, packs sometimes persist or do not persist. Conditions can change and their range can change, based on changes in the prey base and things like that.”
It’s been relatively easy for state officials to keep apprised of wolf activities in the northeast part of the state, with its relatively high density of wolves and livestock. But of the state’s 20 reported attacks on pets and livestock by wolves last year, WDFW officials determined that wolves were actually only involved in four of those attacks, resulting in one calf being killed and three dogs injured.
Those numbers constituted a significant drop from depredation in 2012, when Washington wolves killed at least seven calves and one sheep and injured another six calves and two sheep. Most of those attacks were attributed to the Wedge Pack, and the WDFW killed seven pack members that year. Two wolves from the Wedge, though, were still traveling as a pack in the same area in 2013.
A 2-year-old female from another northeast Washington pack, the Smackout pack in Stevens County, was shot and killed early last month. The WDFW, with support from three non-profit organizations, is offering a reard of up to $22,500 to find the person or persons responsible for its death.
But while wolves in that part of the state remain at the center of an emotional maelstrom, Central Washington’s wolves have “been fairly well-behaved,” without a single 2013 lifestock or wolf report involving the Teanaway pack.
That hasn’t stopped reports from coming in that wolves are, well, everywhere.
“Those reports are constant,” said Yakima-based WDFW biologist Jeff Bernatowicz. “Even along the I-5 corridor over by Seattle, they’re constant. Everywhere in the state you get reports of wolves. People see things.
“And, really, wolves aren’t very reclusive. They’re actually pretty bold. They like to run roads, and they howl. If there’s a pack, you’re going to know it. And it’s not going to be one report here and there, it’s going to be numerous reports.”
As for the occasional report of a set of wolf tracks — or what appears to be wolf tracks — Bernatowicz said that doesn’t mean there’s a pack anywhere around.
“That could be a single wolf traveling through or on a walkabout from another pack,” he said. “One set of wolf tracks, that’s not a pack. And that wolf, if it is a wolf, the next day could be many miles away.”
And the removal of wolves from the state’s endangered species list could be years away. The management plan calls for documenting 15 successful breeding pairs for three consecutive years spread among three designated wolf-recovery regions, or 18 successful breeding pairs in one year for the whole state.
And five breeding pairs, the current official count, is a far cry from that.
http://www.yakimaherald.com/sports/outdoorandrecreation/2023875-8/wolf-pack-could-be-coming-to-the-area (http://www.yakimaherald.com/sports/outdoorandrecreation/2023875-8/wolf-pack-could-be-coming-to-the-area)
“And, really, wolves aren’t very reclusive. They’re actually pretty bold. They like to run roads, and they howl. If there’s a pack, you’re going to know it. And it’s not going to be one report here and there, it’s going to be numerous reports.”
It's just hard to confirm wolves from the office.
Post by: wadu1 on February 06, 2015, 09:16:25 PM
Well I'm with Curly on this one;:jacked: >:( >:( :tung: :chuckle:
oops :-[
:peep:
That's prime squatch country Curly!
Bigfoot must not eat horses. ???
Bigfoot probably wouldn't appreciate having wolves to compete with deer or elk.
Hopefully wolves don't get a taste for bighorn sheep. And what about the reintroduction of antelope? I bet wolves would like some of that action.
The EIS for wolf introduction is flawed since they failed to mention bigfoot
They need to be relocated to Seattle's Woodland Park to rid them of the bunny problem, then a batch to Pt. Defiance to rid them of the deer problem, then Sequim to rid them of the elk problem and then to Olympia to rid us of the tree hugger problem.
Post by: jasnt on February 06, 2015, 10:03:43 PM
I'd like a "beer" and a chair for this topic Please!!! :chuckle:its Friday night. They must be at the wolf hugers appreciation banquet co sponsored by cnw and wdfw :chuckle: :brew: :stirthepot:
Sort of amazed some of the semi-pro wolfers in here haven't chimed in yet!!
Post by: timberfaller on February 08, 2015, 02:51:05 PM
Wouldn't the State open themselves up for lawsuits if they relocate wolves into an area and said wolves end up killing livestock? I could see where they might be able to wash their hands of it if the wolves naturally migrated there.
Personally, I think the State and the Feds should get sued for allowing wolves to populate like they have, but to me it seems even worse and a better case for someone to make if they were to transplant them and they start wreaking havoc on livestock. Or what if a person gets killed by a wolf that was transplanted? I assume all transplanted wolves would have collars.
I can see where bios would rather let the wolves naturally move into a location rather than the bio picking the area to drop them. More fingers could be pointed at the biologist decision on relocation area if something goes wrong.
They ONLY get sued IF they think about cutting down some timber somewhere! :yike:
:chuckle: ever been around a government biologist!?? :o :tree1: :tinfoil:
Post by: steen on February 08, 2015, 04:18:56 PM
Warning, if you have a high blood pressure problem, don't read the comments in that article about the cougar killing the horse. :o (People are weird).Someone's dog was taken in the same general area in the last 3 weeks while they were riding and right in front of them. A female cougar and her two last year's cubs. Teaching them to hunt on easy prey!
Post by: villageidiot on February 08, 2015, 08:37:11 PM
Post by: Humptulips on February 08, 2015, 10:31:04 PM
You can't sue the government! You can try but nobody ever beats them. They are the King of the land.
Tell that to Earth Justice.
Post by: PolarBear on February 08, 2015, 11:21:36 PM
Post by: theshade on February 09, 2015, 12:09:08 AM
Trap and relocate ALL wolves in this state to Seattle, Tacoma and Olympia!!!!
:yeah:
Post by: 3dsheetmetal on February 09, 2015, 05:12:13 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 09, 2015, 05:16:57 AM
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on February 09, 2015, 06:42:40 AM
You can't sue the government! You can try but nobody ever beats them. They are the King of the land.
Tell that to Earth Justice.
true but they both have the same (or EXTREMELY similar) agendas :bash:
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 09, 2015, 07:16:29 AM
Wish they would start counting the ones in captivity as part of the 13(or whatever the number was) breeding pairs so we can start hunting them.
There are some who don't want them to reach 15 established packs so that management as game will never happen. Some of those people sit on our F&W commission. I have serious doubts that wolves will become game animals in WA within another 5 years.
Post by: Curly on February 09, 2015, 08:25:41 AM
Post by: kodiak 907 on February 09, 2015, 08:59:01 AM
Even if they reach the magic number and are delisted, they will never be managed like they should be. >:(
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on February 09, 2015, 08:59:36 AM
Post by: kodiak 907 on February 09, 2015, 09:00:37 AM
Post by: Maverick on February 09, 2015, 06:23:25 PM
Post by: timberfaller on February 09, 2015, 09:15:23 PM
Maybe some wildlife groups should use the same tactics :yike: File a injunction of behalf of the Mt. Caribou :tup:
Post by: jimmy z on February 13, 2015, 09:24:38 PM
Post by: mfswallace on March 01, 2015, 09:41:35 AM
"Translocation is a conservation tool available in the plan that could be used to move wolves from one recovery region to another if they failed to reach the recovery region through natural dispersal. If it were proposed, it would go through an extensive public review process."
Post by: 3dsheetmetal on March 01, 2015, 09:51:07 AM
Post by: buckhorn2 on March 01, 2015, 10:24:21 AM
Post by: mfswallace on March 01, 2015, 06:42:03 PM
Oregon says it has 77 wolves and just a few years ago they had only one they will be all over western Washington before to long. We watched one at mt st Helens two years ago.
And washington has been stuck on 53 for 2 years, weird isn't it :dunno:
Post by: jasnt on March 02, 2015, 06:14:17 AM
thats because they only count the wolves killing livestock. People have seen how much effort wdfw puts in to stopping depredation so now they take care of it them selves. :brew:Oregon says it has 77 wolves and just a few years ago they had only one they will be all over western Washington before to long. We watched one at mt st Helens two years ago.
And washington has been stuck on 53 for 2 years, weird isn't it :dunno:
Post by: CAMPMEAT on March 02, 2015, 02:57:44 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on March 02, 2015, 03:13:30 PM
Post by: wolfbait on March 02, 2015, 05:00:15 PM
I hear about wolf sightings all the time here. They are not reported, because the people who might be impacted the most, are most likely to take care of business. Cows, from what I've been told are nearly worth $2500 each and calves around $1500 back. There are a lot of cows in the 2 counties around here, millions of dollars at stake and these guys aren't going to depend on the WDFW to do squat, EVER, about management, nothing.
People have seen WDFW refuse to confirm wolf killed livestock, and when they were forced to confirm, watched as WDFW slow played the ranchers, waiting for the big push back from their environmental partners. It has turned out to be a lose lose situation calling WDFW for wolf predation.
There are a couple of good wolf recipes being circulated throughout the counties now, no pulling the trigger, no evidence, and no more wolf problem for a while. I guess thats what WDFW want, that way they can drag delisting out for several more years.
Post by: idahohuntr on March 02, 2015, 05:38:52 PM
You should probably consult a defense attorney before you do too much more posting on this topic...I'm sure the right folks already have a lot of information on you right now...particularly if any pets or endangered species are found dead in an area anywhere remotely close to your IP address location. :tup:I hear about wolf sightings all the time here. They are not reported, because the people who might be impacted the most, are most likely to take care of business. Cows, from what I've been told are nearly worth $2500 each and calves around $1500 back. There are a lot of cows in the 2 counties around here, millions of dollars at stake and these guys aren't going to depend on the WDFW to do squat, EVER, about management, nothing.
People have seen WDFW refuse to confirm wolf killed livestock, and when they were forced to confirm, watched as WDFW slow played the ranchers, waiting for the big push back from their environmental partners. It has turned out to be a lose lose situation calling WDFW for wolf predation.
There are a couple of good wolf recipes being circulated throughout the counties now, no pulling the trigger, no evidence, and no more wolf problem for a while. I guess thats what WDFW want, that way they can drag delisting out for several more years.
BTW - Do the folks circulating those recipes do a cost analysis to evaluate potential depredation losses against the cost of lawsuits and jail time? 5 or 10 $2500 cattle is going to be a drop in the bucket compared to somebody's child or pet coming across something that seriously injures or kills them. Pesky details I know.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on March 02, 2015, 05:50:14 PM
You should probably consult a defense attorney before you do too much more posting on this topic...I'm sure the right folks already have a lot of information on you right now...particularly if any pets or endangered species are found dead in an area anywhere remotely close to your IP address location. :tup:I hear about wolf sightings all the time here. They are not reported, because the people who might be impacted the most, are most likely to take care of business. Cows, from what I've been told are nearly worth $2500 each and calves around $1500 back. There are a lot of cows in the 2 counties around here, millions of dollars at stake and these guys aren't going to depend on the WDFW to do squat, EVER, about management, nothing.
People have seen WDFW refuse to confirm wolf killed livestock, and when they were forced to confirm, watched as WDFW slow played the ranchers, waiting for the big push back from their environmental partners. It has turned out to be a lose lose situation calling WDFW for wolf predation.
There are a couple of good wolf recipes being circulated throughout the counties now, no pulling the trigger, no evidence, and no more wolf problem for a while. I guess thats what WDFW want, that way they can drag delisting out for several more years.
BTW - Do the folks circulating those recipes do a cost analysis to evaluate potential depredation losses against the cost of lawsuits and jail time? 5 or 10 $2500 cattle is going to be a drop in the bucket compared to somebody's child or pet coming across something that seriously injures or kills them. Pesky details I know.
Sorry, but I have not done anything, nor do I plan on doing anything. Plus, surprise, don't I have the 1st Amendment on my side, yes. Look at all the things that is said by the liberal media spin masters. I ain't worried one bit.
Post by: wolfbait on March 02, 2015, 05:55:05 PM
You should probably consult a defense attorney before you do too much more posting on this topic...I'm sure the right folks already have a lot of information on you right now...particularly if any pets or endangered species are found dead in an area anywhere remotely close to your IP address location. :tup:I hear about wolf sightings all the time here. They are not reported, because the people who might be impacted the most, are most likely to take care of business. Cows, from what I've been told are nearly worth $2500 each and calves around $1500 back. There are a lot of cows in the 2 counties around here, millions of dollars at stake and these guys aren't going to depend on the WDFW to do squat, EVER, about management, nothing.
People have seen WDFW refuse to confirm wolf killed livestock, and when they were forced to confirm, watched as WDFW slow played the ranchers, waiting for the big push back from their environmental partners. It has turned out to be a lose lose situation calling WDFW for wolf predation.
There are a couple of good wolf recipes being circulated throughout the counties now, no pulling the trigger, no evidence, and no more wolf problem for a while. I guess thats what WDFW want, that way they can drag delisting out for several more years.
BTW - Do the folks circulating those recipes do a cost analysis to evaluate potential depredation losses against the cost of lawsuits and jail time? 5 or 10 $2500 cattle is going to be a drop in the bucket compared to somebody's child or pet coming across something that seriously injures or kills them. Pesky details I know.
I'm not too worried about it I-h, what I posted is common knowledge where I live as it is in several counties now. It's amazing how fast news travels, Just like Idaho etc. where wolves were dump on them, folks in WA are learning how to take care of wolf problems themselves. I think ranchers hoped for a better outcome when they contacted WDFW, what they came out with was just another wasted phone call. It's too bad WDFW haven't been honest from the beginning.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on March 02, 2015, 06:02:02 PM
I reported that a women took he kids to a SCHOOL BUS STOP, and saw a wolf at the pick up spot. I guess I wouldn't of called the WDFW that is most likely a couple hours away, and let the vermin eat my kid. Talk about a lawsuit AGAINST the WDFW.
Book knowledge means nothing me.
Post by: Ridgeratt on March 02, 2015, 07:18:54 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on March 02, 2015, 07:34:33 PM
May I have a Cold Beer and a chair in the corner Please!!!
It's aways the same BS by wolf lovers......
Post by: jasnt on March 02, 2015, 07:52:02 PM
I love it that people know everything, who don't even live with the problem.......................or, have possibly never seen a wolf in that particular area we speak about.:mgun: Don't waste your time on the phone. Just shoot and release.
I reported that a women took he kids to a SCHOOL BUS STOP, and saw a wolf at the pick up spot. I guess I wouldn't of called the WDFW that is most likely a couple hours away, and let the vermin eat my kid. Talk about a lawsuit AGAINST the WDFW.
Book knowledge means nothing me.
:brew:
Post by: wolfbait on March 02, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
I love it that people know everything, who don't even live with the problem.......................or, have possibly never seen a wolf in that particular area we speak about.:mgun: Don't waste your time on the phone. Just shoot and release.
I reported that a women took he kids to a SCHOOL BUS STOP, and saw a wolf at the pick up spot. I guess I wouldn't of called the WDFW that is most likely a couple hours away, and let the vermin eat my kid. Talk about a lawsuit AGAINST the WDFW.
Book knowledge means nothing me.
:brew:
Careful there Jasnt, you might have to start worrying about the "right folks" snooping around your IP address looking for an endangered species or a dead pet. :chuckle: :chuckle:
Too bad the pro-wolf crowd doesn't show the same concern for people who have had close encounters with wolves.
Post by: wolfbait on March 02, 2015, 08:07:10 PM
May I have a Cold Beer and a chair in the corner Please!!!
You shouldn't need a chair this won't last too long.
Although the dogs did start barking it up a little while ago, I grabbed my griz gun and had a look see, I thought I saw an endangered species lope by, but as it turned out it was just the neighbors mule. I set out a few more trail cams to see if the "right folks" stop by. :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: jasnt on March 02, 2015, 08:14:55 PM
they can look all they want :chuckle: that the beauty of shoot and release. A good low center punch and they'll end up miles from here or get eaten by kin. Invasive species in my opinion.I love it that people know everything, who don't even live with the problem.......................or, have possibly never seen a wolf in that particular area we speak about.:mgun: Don't waste your time on the phone. Just shoot and release.
I reported that a women took he kids to a SCHOOL BUS STOP, and saw a wolf at the pick up spot. I guess I wouldn't of called the WDFW that is most likely a couple hours away, and let the vermin eat my kid. Talk about a lawsuit AGAINST the WDFW.
Book knowledge means nothing me.
:brew:
Careful there Jasnt, you might have to start worrying about the "right folks" snooping around your IP address looking for and endangered species or a dead pet. :chuckle: :chuckle:
Too bad the pro-wolf crowd doesn't show the same concern for people who have had close encounters with wolves.
Post by: wolfbait on March 02, 2015, 08:23:57 PM
they can look all they want :chuckle: that the beauty of shoot and release. A good low center punch and they'll end up miles from here or get eaten by kin. Invasive species in my opinion.I love it that people know everything, who don't even live with the problem.......................or, have possibly never seen a wolf in that particular area we speak about.:mgun: Don't waste your time on the phone. Just shoot and release.
I reported that a women took he kids to a SCHOOL BUS STOP, and saw a wolf at the pick up spot. I guess I wouldn't of called the WDFW that is most likely a couple hours away, and let the vermin eat my kid. Talk about a lawsuit AGAINST the WDFW.
Book knowledge means nothing me.
:brew:
Careful there Jasnt, you might have to start worrying about the "right folks" snooping around your IP address looking for and endangered species or a dead pet. :chuckle: :chuckle:
Too bad the pro-wolf crowd doesn't show the same concern for people who have had close encounters with wolves.
Hope it doesn't keel over in my yard :yike: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: CAMPMEAT on March 02, 2015, 08:28:40 PM
Post by: wolfbait on March 02, 2015, 08:32:01 PM
They won't keel over in your yard. You're a 120 miles from me.......well, they do travel from what I've been told.
I have heard of wolves going 60-70 MPH down the highway, you did know that wolves like roads to travel on didn't you?
Post by: Ridgeratt on March 02, 2015, 08:34:09 PM
What I'm hear from the locals is :dunno:
Post by: jtw on March 02, 2015, 08:37:22 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on March 02, 2015, 08:50:44 PM
They won't keel over in your yard. You're a 120 miles from me.......well, they do travel from what I've been told.
I have heard of wolves going 60-70 MPH down the highway, you did know that wolves like roads to travel on didn't you?
Why yes, yes, I've heard that. 2 1/2 hours to your place. Sounds reasonable I guess.....
Post by: wolfbait on March 02, 2015, 08:53:39 PM
Ive seen wolf sign in the washougal last year and there have been other sightings recently. Wolves are here.
Need to get some wolves confirmed, buy a cow and stake it out, it's the only way WDFW can find wolves.
Post by: Ridgeratt on March 02, 2015, 08:55:06 PM
Post by: Pinetar on March 02, 2015, 08:55:45 PM
At least that is what the WSGD is doing and telling us in Ebrg.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on March 02, 2015, 08:58:41 PM
I'm not sure they could find them in a locked barn!!!
My insurance agent told me 2 years ago she saw some wolves in "BOXES" in the back of a WDFW truck in downtown Republic. She couldn't believe it. I questioned her and she said they are hunters and knew what they were. They don't transplant coyotes.....well, maybe this WDFW does.
Post by: wolfbait on March 02, 2015, 09:08:13 PM
I'm not sure they could find them in a locked barn!!!
True, and we can't forget Olympia, they would have to call their boss and find out whether to call it a coyote kill or cougar. Idiots. Probably call it a stray dog, wouldn't want to freak the locals out over another cougar.
Post by: Ridgeratt on March 02, 2015, 09:12:27 PM
Break out the Flash cards!! What does it look like to you? Or the game reg's for a ident!
Post by: wolfbait on March 02, 2015, 09:13:33 PM
It would be another confirmed BP for the Okanogan. :tup: No more blaming the lookout pack for everything.
Post by: Ridgeratt on March 02, 2015, 09:15:54 PM
I might have some wolf pup pictures to put on H-W this spring. :tup: A guy told me about a den that had wolf pups last year, and wolves usually use the same den every years, so we will see.
It would be another confirmed BP for the Okanogan. :tup: No more blaming the lookout pack for everything.
Before you even post them. I'm calling Photo Shopped!!!!! :chuckle:
Post by: wolfbait on March 02, 2015, 09:19:01 PM
I might have some wolf pup pictures to put on H-W this spring. :tup: A guy told me about a den that had wolf pups last year, and wolves usually use the same den every years, so we will see.
It would be another confirmed BP for the Okanogan. :tup: No more blaming the lookout pack for everything.
Before you even post them. I'm calling Photo Shopped!!!!! :chuckle:
I'm going to hand them over to our county commissioners, and then put them on H-W ;) Make sure it gets in the news paper the correct way.
Wolves in this area have been reported to WDFW for several years now, it won't be a shocker to them.
Post by: wolfbait on March 02, 2015, 09:27:31 PM
They won't keel over in your yard. You're a 120 miles from me.......well, they do travel from what I've been told.
I have heard of wolves going 60-70 MPH down the highway, you did know that wolves like roads to travel on didn't you?
Why yes, yes, I've heard that. 2 1/2 hours to your place. Sounds reasonable I guess.....
Actually it would be about 3 hours now, I would have to drag Sheela through the mud for about a 100 yards. :chuckle:
Post by: CAMPMEAT on March 03, 2015, 07:05:25 AM
They won't keel over in your yard. You're a 120 miles from me.......well, they do travel from what I've been told.
I have heard of wolves going 60-70 MPH down the highway, you did know that wolves like roads to travel on didn't you?
Why yes, yes, I've heard that. 2 1/2 hours to your place. Sounds reasonable I guess.....
Actually it would be about 3 hours now, I would have to drag Sheela through the mud for about a 100 yards. :chuckle:
Sheila wouldn't be up for that. She got stuck once this year in the snow..... :tup:
Post by: huntingbaldguy on March 27, 2015, 03:46:22 AM
Post by: Rainier10 on March 30, 2015, 09:17:38 AM
I can see a scenario where they get a breeding pair on the west side, it is established for two years and someone takes the pair out and it resets the countdown clock until there is another breeding pair established.
Post by: rim_runner on March 30, 2015, 09:29:44 AM
Wolfbait if you know where a den is magic meatballs is the answer. Wolves and sea lions need to get managed by the public others wise we are going to watch hunting and fishing disappear.you're sure quick to suggest that hunters would commit unethical acts. Is some group paying you to post this garbage?
Post by: wolfbait on March 30, 2015, 10:33:20 AM
The "SSS" stuff really worries me about this. Wolves are here to stay and the biggest delay to them getting managed is the breeding pairs being established for "x" amount of time. I believe that once they have the breeding pairs in all areas the clock starts ticking. If one of those breeding pairs gets taken out, SSS or even natural causes, then they have to wait until they have recovered that many breeding pairs and the clock starts over.
I can see a scenario where they get a breeding pair on the west side, it is established for two years and someone takes the pair out and it resets the countdown clock until there is another breeding pair established.
WDFW are dragging wolf delisting out, SSS etc. won't change the outcome, the only thing it will do is save some wildlife in that area until the next pack moves in.
The saying that wolves are here to stay is true, it is also true that the only wolf management for WA, will have to come from the public.
Post by: Rainier10 on March 30, 2015, 10:46:05 AM
Exactly and if "legal" controlled hunting by the public is delayed because of illegal acts that would be a bad thing. The NE is getting pummeled by the wolves and the longer it takes to get to legal hunting the worse off they are. I am not in favor of relocating to get to legal hunting but I am definitely against poaching no matter how I feel about the animal being poached.The "SSS" stuff really worries me about this. Wolves are here to stay and the biggest delay to them getting managed is the breeding pairs being established for "x" amount of time. I believe that once they have the breeding pairs in all areas the clock starts ticking. If one of those breeding pairs gets taken out, SSS or even natural causes, then they have to wait until they have recovered that many breeding pairs and the clock starts over.
I can see a scenario where they get a breeding pair on the west side, it is established for two years and someone takes the pair out and it resets the countdown clock until there is another breeding pair established.
WDFW are dragging wolf delisting out, SSS etc. won't change the outcome, the only thing it will do is save some wildlife in that area until the next pack moves in.
The saying that wolves are here to stay is true, it is also true that the only wolf management for WA, will have to come from the public.
If someone doesn't like the rule they need to change it not break it.
Post by: Curly on March 30, 2015, 10:52:39 AM
Post by: wolfbait on March 30, 2015, 11:22:19 AM
Exactly and if "legal" controlled hunting by the public is delayed because of illegal acts that would be a bad thing. The NE is getting pummeled by the wolves and the longer it takes to get to legal hunting the worse off they are. I am not in favor of relocating to get to legal hunting but I am definitely against poaching no matter how I feel about the animal being poached.The "SSS" stuff really worries me about this. Wolves are here to stay and the biggest delay to them getting managed is the breeding pairs being established for "x" amount of time. I believe that once they have the breeding pairs in all areas the clock starts ticking. If one of those breeding pairs gets taken out, SSS or even natural causes, then they have to wait until they have recovered that many breeding pairs and the clock starts over.
I can see a scenario where they get a breeding pair on the west side, it is established for two years and someone takes the pair out and it resets the countdown clock until there is another breeding pair established.
WDFW are dragging wolf delisting out, SSS etc. won't change the outcome, the only thing it will do is save some wildlife in that area until the next pack moves in.
The saying that wolves are here to stay is true, it is also true that the only wolf management for WA, will have to come from the public.
If someone doesn't like the rule they need to change it not break it.
There's no need for any wolf relocating as wolves are throughout WA now, there is a need for some BP's/packs to be confirmed, that won't happen until WDFW decide the wolves have done enough damage, or they are finally forced to confirm.
Post by: ghosthunter on March 30, 2015, 11:42:39 AM
I'm not sure they could find them in a locked barn!!!
My insurance agent told me 2 years ago she saw some wolves in "BOXES" in the back of a WDFW truck in downtown Republic. She couldn't believe it. I questioned her and she said they are hunters and knew what they were. They don't transplant coyotes.....well, maybe this WDFW does.
Nate Pamplin addressed this in front of 500 Hunter Ed instructors this past weekend.
He said that the State of Washington WDFW has never transported wolves into the state. He said it simply was not cost effective. He said there was no need to bring wolves in because the wolves were bringing themselves at a 6% increase last year.
Post by: Rainier10 on March 30, 2015, 01:26:29 PM
:yeah:I'm not sure they could find them in a locked barn!!!
My insurance agent told me 2 years ago she saw some wolves in "BOXES" in the back of a WDFW truck in downtown Republic. She couldn't believe it. I questioned her and she said they are hunters and knew what they were. They don't transplant coyotes.....well, maybe this WDFW does.
Nate Pamplin addressed this in front of 500 Hunter Ed instructors this past weekend.
He said that the State of Washington WDFW has never transported wolves into the state. He said it simply was not cost effective. He said there was no need to bring wolves in because the wolves were bringing themselves at a 6% increase last year.
We know they are mobile, a collared wolf made it all the way to California for heavens sake.
I think he said they were reproducing at a 30% rate, wolf health is doing fine.
One really important thing he said was that it is vital for people to report sightings on the WDFW site. One report on road x from 5 years ago is irrelevant. 3 reports on road Y or that general area in a one month period is worth them investigating and confirming. As soon as they are confirmed the clock starts ticking towards management unless some vigilante takes out a breeding pair. Then the pair has to be reconfirmed and the clock starts at zero again.
Post by: rim_runner on March 30, 2015, 03:03:01 PM
Unethical go hug a wolf. I am so sick of this crap we just accept what the government lefties shove down our throats. People need to have a backbone and a pair.anytime I've seen someone keep trying to get others to commit an unethical act it's because they don't have the nerve to do it themselves or they are trying to get someone else in trouble. So which of the two is it for you?
Post by: Curly on March 30, 2015, 03:20:21 PM
I do know that SSS should probably not be talked about.......at least not on the internet. :twocents:
Post by: rim_runner on March 30, 2015, 05:46:44 PM
Is SSS unethical or is it just illegal? :dunno: Some people might say it's unethical NOT to shoot a wolf. :dunno: Ethics is doing what is right and the law doesn't always align with what's right.Shooting a wolf is one thing. Using magic meatballs certainly doesn't fall into the ethics of a clean kill by anyone's standard.
I do know that SSS should probably not be talked about.......at least not on the internet. :twocents:
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on March 30, 2015, 06:26:40 PM
Post by: Curly on March 31, 2015, 08:39:43 AM
Is SSS unethical or is it just illegal? :dunno: Some people might say it's unethical NOT to shoot a wolf. :dunno: Ethics is doing what is right and the law doesn't always align with what's right.Shooting a wolf is one thing. Using magic meatballs certainly doesn't fall into the ethics of a clean kill by anyone's standard.
I do know that SSS should probably not be talked about.......at least not on the internet. :twocents:
Agreed.
Post by: wolfbait on March 31, 2015, 10:18:58 AM
This state has around 100 wolves 10,000 dollar fine for killing a wolve that's a million dollars in fines assume every wolve that was killed was convicted. A million dollars is a drop in the bucket. 1000 people willing to donate 1000 dollars to getting rid of wolves. The 1000 dollars may even be tax deductible if structured property.
Hate to burst your bubble but, in 2010 WA had well over a 100 wolves and at this point SSS will not work, it might help out the game herds in that area until another pack moved in or WDFW released some more in the area.
Basically WA is screwed and has been for a long time, now we have the USFWS and WDFW and their partnered environmentalists promoting G.bear recovery which is just another tool for shutting down roads etc..
Use the fish to take water rights, spotted owl to shut down logging, the wolves to stop hunting, and the bears to close off roads, the only thing left is to lock the land in Wilderness etc..
All the while hunters, fisherman, outdoor recreational folks can't seem to come together on one single issue long enough to see the end results of doing nothing.
Lets not forget the plants on these forums who are there to disrupt any progress that might be occurring.
And the topic today is what's ethical, or ethic? I guess if you live in a wolf free zone and idolized wolves then ethics probably does come into play, if you live in a wolf infested zone and are seeing your livestock killed off, not so much.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on March 31, 2015, 10:47:59 AM
Post by: rim_runner on March 31, 2015, 11:15:34 AM
This state has around 100 wolves 10,000 dollar fine for killing a wolve that's a million dollars in fines assume every wolve that was killed was convicted. A million dollars is a drop in the bucket. 1000 people willing to donate 1000 dollars to getting rid of wolves. The 1000 dollars may even be tax deductible if structured property.So how many thousands have you donated? Or are you once more trying to get others to do what you won't. Why are you putting so much effort into making hunters look bad?
Post by: rim_runner on March 31, 2015, 11:31:39 AM
I am more than willing to donate to good causesyou're also willing to provide the anti-hunters with ammo to use on us hunters.
Post by: rim_runner on March 31, 2015, 11:57:59 AM
I understand where your coming from but I don't think it really matter s God bless the constitution.You’re wrong! It’s not the hunters or the anti-hunters who will decide the fate of hunting. It’s the non-hunters who have the number of votes to decide this. The anti-hunters understand this and they are constantly trying to portray us to the non-hunters in the worse possible light. It wouldn’t surprise me at all to see your comments copied to an anti-hunting site suggesting that this proves all hunters have no regard for ethics or any qualms about causing an animal to suffer needlessly.
Post by: wolfbait on March 31, 2015, 12:31:25 PM
Actually it's the sue and settle of environmentalists and the USFWS plus having an environmental judge that determines how long before any wolf control/management transpires, we have already seen this in ID, MT, and Wyoming.
The environmentalists and the USFWS along with WDFW already have everything worked out a head of time, remember the fake wolf meetings before the faulty wolf plan was implemented?
Post by: rim_runner on March 31, 2015, 12:41:38 PM
Is SSS unethical or is it just illegal? :dunno: Some people might say it's unethical NOT to shoot a wolf. :dunno: Ethics is doing what is right and the law doesn't always align with what's right.Tree huggers use a similar thought process when they spike trees, They may think they are doing the right thing but I sure don't.
Post by: wolfbait on April 02, 2015, 06:00:17 PM
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on April 02, 2015, 06:25:53 PM
I understand where your coming from but I don't think it really matter s God bless the constitution.You’re wrong! It’s not the hunters or the anti-hunters who will decide the fate of hunting. It’s the non-hunters who have the number of votes to decide this. The anti-hunters understand this and they are constantly trying to portray us to the non-hunters in the worse possible light. It wouldn’t surprise me at all to see your comments copied to an anti-hunting site suggesting that this proves all hunters have no regard for ethics or any qualms about causing an animal to suffer needlessly.
If there was a way to rep you for your comment, I would. You see the big picture.