Post by: bobcat on February 07, 2015, 12:16:30 AM
Post by: jackelope on February 07, 2015, 06:20:45 AM
Post by: villageidiot on February 07, 2015, 06:34:40 AM
Post by: Timberstalker on February 07, 2015, 07:00:51 AM
WDFW must be paying attention. If they don't sell the moose to the hunters now the exploding wolves in the NE corner will eat every last one. This could be a very smart move.
....thereby destroying our moose population. What a mess.
Both of these are my thoughts exactly. We will see a huge decline in tags by 2020.
Post by: jackelope on February 07, 2015, 07:42:54 AM
:puke:
Post by: Jonathan_S on February 07, 2015, 07:46:08 AM
Post by: benhuntin on February 07, 2015, 08:22:02 AM
And the Yakama tribe has moose tags up there too...how many? And is that a new thing?
:puke:
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
Post by: jackelope on February 07, 2015, 08:24:03 AM
And the Yakama tribe has moose tags up there too...how many? And is that a new thing?
:puke:
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
Don't know how many, and I think they were new in 2014.
Post by: idahohuntr on February 10, 2015, 12:48:43 PM
....thereby destroying our moose population. What a mess.I disagree. The increase in tags is warranted given the increase in moose populations and evidence of density dependent factors being exhibited in moose populations in WA.
Post by: jackelope on February 10, 2015, 01:10:44 PM
....thereby destroying our moose population. What a mess.I disagree. The increase in tags is warranted given the increase in moose populations and evidence of density dependent factors being exhibited in moose populations in WA.
They're not hard to kill.
20 more tags with very high success rates.
Increasing number of wolves. Moose are easy prey for wolves.
Tribal hunting. I don't know how many moose tags the Yakama tribe has, but
I know they have some.
I don't see anything good coming from more moose tags.
Post by: Jonathan_S on February 10, 2015, 01:14:47 PM
Post by: bobcat on February 10, 2015, 01:23:44 PM
Post by: Curly on February 10, 2015, 01:25:36 PM
Post by: jackelope on February 10, 2015, 01:34:58 PM
Hunters kill a bunch and wolves kill a bunch. Cut the tag #'s in half 5 years from now.
Post by: Jonathan_S on February 10, 2015, 01:38:57 PM
I'll go along with what the biologists determine is an acceptable number of moose tags. Also I don't believe the antlerless tags were increased, or if they were, it wasn't by much.
Of course you will 8) I tend to go along with what I've observed and that is lower calf recruitment of the larger ungulates. What I really mean is that I don't think there should be any antlerless hunting opportunities in the Northern units for either species.
Post by: bobcat on February 10, 2015, 01:43:41 PM
With habitat improvement, due to logging and/or fires, I could see the moose population increasing by quite a bit. They're already beginning to establish themselves in new areas where moose haven't existed previously.
Post by: idahohuntr on February 10, 2015, 01:45:37 PM
The lower calf recruitment is one of the signs of a population of ungulates which is higher than habitat will support. The common response is to reduce the number of adults. This is an issue for elk over in Unit 11 of Idaho too. In very simplistic terms...adults eat all the food, and the children starve.I'll go along with what the biologists determine is an acceptable number of moose tags. Also I don't believe the antlerless tags were increased, or if they were, it wasn't by much.
Of course you will 8) I tend to go along with what I've observed and that is lower calf recruitment of the larger ungulates. What I really mean is that I don't think there should be any antlerless hunting opportunities in the Northern units for either species.
Post by: Jonathan_S on February 10, 2015, 01:48:55 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on February 10, 2015, 02:06:44 PM
I understand that idahohuntr, but you're talking about very small groups of elk in areas that have historically held much more along with whitetail populations that were 200% what they are now.I'm not sure I follow...moose are exceeding habitat capacity is what WDFW is finding some evidence of...therefore increasing harvest of adults (cows and bulls) to increase calf recruitment and avoid a skewed age structure doesn't seem unreasonable...particularly given the increase in the moose population.
Post by: Jonathan_S on February 10, 2015, 04:27:12 PM
I understand that idahohuntr, but you're talking about very small groups of elk in areas that have historically held much more along with whitetail populations that were 200% what they are now.I'm not sure I follow...moose are exceeding habitat capacity is what WDFW is finding some evidence of...therefore increasing harvest of adults (cows and bulls) to increase calf recruitment and avoid a skewed age structure doesn't seem unreasonable...particularly given the increase in the moose population.
My points originally were about elk AND moose. Since this is a moose thread, I will drop that for now. Some of the units farther south towards Spokane reflect that logic but I don't recall seeing data showing big numbers increases in most of the more northern units.
I guess we'll see. Calf recruitment can also be affected by very high predator populations. Let's not even brings wolves into it...the cougar population is extremely high in a lot of these same areas. :dunno:
Post by: WABONEHNTR on February 10, 2015, 09:42:58 PM
I understand that idahohuntr, but you're talking about very small groups of elk in areas that have historically held much more along with whitetail populations that were 200% what they are now.I'm not sure I follow...moose are exceeding habitat capacity is what WDFW is finding some evidence of...therefore increasing harvest of adults (cows and bulls) to increase calf recruitment and avoid a skewed age structure doesn't seem unreasonable...particularly given the increase in the moose population.
I really don't know where you are getting your information idahohuntr. There should not be a man on this planet that says "our" moose population is increasing. We are gaining moose in the cascades but definitely not in the NE. Lets use Winchester Creek/49 unit for example. There once was a day when you could not drive that road at 10mph because odds were very high that a moose would pop out in front of you. I dare you go up there today and tell me how many tracks you see. You could take that road at 70mph and not worry. We "HAD" the best moose hunting/populations in the country.
These increased tag numbers would have been relevant 7-9yrs ago when the moose population were booming and the numbers where high. Today is a totally different ball game. More tags mean more $$, nothing else. Its very sad when a guy can talk about the good ole days and its only from 7-9 years ago. Pretty sad and our game dept should be ashamed of themselves.
Post by: Bob33 on February 10, 2015, 09:47:02 PM
I really don't know where you are getting your information idahohuntr. There should not be a man on this planet that says "our" moose population is increasing.They may be wrong, but there are quite a few.
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2013/mar/24/moose-declining-in-idaho-spreading-in-washington/ (http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2013/mar/24/moose-declining-in-idaho-spreading-in-washington/)
Post by: huntnnw on February 10, 2015, 10:06:56 PM
Post by: Limhangerslayer on February 10, 2015, 10:24:20 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on February 10, 2015, 10:26:20 PM
I get my information from biologists actively involved in mark-recapture estimates of moose in NE Wa. I'm sure its not equal across all units...but overall numbers are up...noticeably. Sorry if you don't also see this...I doubt your information is as reliable as actual data collection. As far as upping tags for money...I don't think thats it...20 tags would be what, about $6k?I understand that idahohuntr, but you're talking about very small groups of elk in areas that have historically held much more along with whitetail populations that were 200% what they are now.I'm not sure I follow...moose are exceeding habitat capacity is what WDFW is finding some evidence of...therefore increasing harvest of adults (cows and bulls) to increase calf recruitment and avoid a skewed age structure doesn't seem unreasonable...particularly given the increase in the moose population.
I really don't know where you are getting your information idahohuntr. There should not be a man on this planet that says "our" moose population is increasing. We are gaining moose in the cascades but definitely not in the NE. Lets use Winchester Creek/49 unit for example. There once was a day when you could not drive that road at 10mph because odds were very high that a moose would pop out in front of you. I dare you go up there today and tell me how many tracks you see. You could take that road at 70mph and not worry. We "HAD" the best moose hunting/populations in the country.
These increased tag numbers would have been relevant 7-9yrs ago when the moose population were booming and the numbers where high. Today is a totally different ball game. More tags mean more $$, nothing else. Its very sad when a guy can talk about the good ole days and its only from 7-9 years ago. Pretty sad and our game dept should be ashamed of themselves.
Post by: huntnnw on February 10, 2015, 10:28:22 PM
Post by: benhuntin on February 10, 2015, 10:29:56 PM
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
Post by: 724wd on February 12, 2015, 07:24:43 AM
I actually think it was good that Mica stayed the same at 7 tags...it was not good this past year. I know of 1 bull tag eaten and 2 cow tags
how much, if any, was that due to the Mica Peak motorized closure and people not willing to walk in for a moose?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on February 12, 2015, 08:24:39 AM
i spoke with numerous tag uolders for mica this year all were having trouble. Even in my time up there i saw noticeably less moose amd no big bulls. Places i havw always seen moose were void of even sign... definitely was not a normal year up there.I actually think it was good that Mica stayed the same at 7 tags...it was not good this past year. I know of 1 bull tag eaten and 2 cow tags
how much, if any, was that due to the Mica Peak motorized closure and people not willing to walk in for a moose?
Post by: shanevg on February 12, 2015, 09:33:33 PM
Post by: Dan-o on February 12, 2015, 10:06:42 PM
Moose success in Washington has stayed around 95%.
That crushes success rates on other big game, including premium draws, and tells me that there are plenty to hunt.
Go WDFW........ Pick me!!!!!!!
Post by: jackelope on February 12, 2015, 10:28:44 PM
:yeah:
Moose success in Washington has stayed around 95%.
That crushes success rates on other big game, including premium draws, and tells me that there are plenty to hunt.
Go WDFW........ Pick me!!!!!!!
Its because they're very visible and easy to kill.
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
Post by: Dan-o on February 12, 2015, 10:34:10 PM
:yeah:
Moose success in Washington has stayed around 95%.
That crushes success rates on other big game, including premium draws, and tells me that there are plenty to hunt.
Go WDFW........ Pick me!!!!!!!
Its because they're very visible and easy to kill.
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
No argument here.
But if WDFW gives more tags AND success rates stay in the 90%, I say increase tags.
If success drops to 50% this year, they can always do an emergency closure........
I do wish we were smart enough to keep the wolves out. They hunt year round, with no emergency closures.
Post by: jackelope on February 13, 2015, 05:43:17 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 13, 2015, 05:44:54 AM
Post by: benhuntin on February 13, 2015, 07:25:43 AM
Post by: jackelope on February 13, 2015, 07:29:31 AM
What about when you draw in 2035?
That's what I'm worried about.
I think it's awesome how many game biologists we have on here. The state cuts tags you whine, the state adds tags you whine. I tried to stay off this thread but couldn't. Sorry
You're a moose guy. Where do you land on this topic?
Post by: Rainier10 on February 13, 2015, 07:37:32 AM
20 more moose tags=40 less moose shedsIt appears to be a shed thing. :chuckle:
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
Honestly though I would like to hear what some of the "moose regulars think" also.
Post by: benhuntin on February 13, 2015, 07:44:03 AM
I would also like to hear what the "moose regulars" think. And would be courious to know what the definition of a "moose regular" is.20 more moose tags=40 less moose shedsIt appears to be a shed thing. :chuckle:
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
Honestly though I would like to hear what some of the "moose regulars think" also.
Post by: jackelope on February 13, 2015, 08:54:58 AM
I would also like to hear what the "moose regulars" think. And would be courious to know what the definition of a "moose regular" is.20 more moose tags=40 less moose shedsIt appears to be a shed thing. :chuckle:
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
Honestly though I would like to hear what some of the "moose regulars think" also.
I consider you a moose regular, since a term was invented. What's your stance on increased tag #'s?
Post by: jackelope on February 13, 2015, 08:56:22 AM
Post by: Jonathan_S on February 13, 2015, 09:05:14 AM
I think it's awesome how many game biologists we have on here. The state cuts tags you whine, the state adds tags you whine. I tried to stay off this thread but couldn't. Sorry
:'( sorry you couldn't help yourself :chuckle:
I think it's indicative of a crowd that is concerned with management. If we only were happy when tags increased regardless of circumstance, we'd be irresponsible :dunno:
Post by: benhuntin on February 13, 2015, 09:06:58 AM
Post by: benhuntin on February 13, 2015, 09:08:52 AM
Post by: jackelope on February 13, 2015, 09:11:14 AM
There are plenty of moose to be had. Anyone who eats a tag either did not hunt hard enough or was waiting for a big bull. The only issue I have is they give way to many cow tags in a couple units but other than that I am glad to see more tags. Now we just need a few K-9 tags and all will be good.
Do you think that shorter seasons and more hunters will equate to more smaller bulls killed? With less time to hunt and more hunters...will guys risk wasting their once in a lifetime tag by passing a lesser bull or will they kill a smaller bull quicker so someone else doesn't get him?
Post by: benhuntin on February 13, 2015, 09:21:51 AM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on February 13, 2015, 09:50:20 AM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on February 13, 2015, 09:52:29 AM
I am sure happy you explained yourself ! I have been wondering for a while now if you were a Bio yourself :dunno: :chuckle:I get my information from biologists actively involved in mark-recapture estimates of moose in NE Wa. I'm sure its not equal across all units...but overall numbers are up...noticeably. Sorry if you don't also see this...I doubt your information is as reliable as actual data collection. As far as upping tags for money...I don't think thats it...20 tags would be what, about $6k?I understand that idahohuntr, but you're talking about very small groups of elk in areas that have historically held much more along with whitetail populations that were 200% what they are now.I'm not sure I follow...moose are exceeding habitat capacity is what WDFW is finding some evidence of...therefore increasing harvest of adults (cows and bulls) to increase calf recruitment and avoid a skewed age structure doesn't seem unreasonable...particularly given the increase in the moose population.
I really don't know where you are getting your information idahohuntr. There should not be a man on this planet that says "our" moose population is increasing. We are gaining moose in the cascades but definitely not in the NE. Lets use Winchester Creek/49 unit for example. There once was a day when you could not drive that road at 10mph because odds were very high that a moose would pop out in front of you. I dare you go up there today and tell me how many tracks you see. You could take that road at 70mph and not worry. We "HAD" the best moose hunting/populations in the country.
These increased tag numbers would have been relevant 7-9yrs ago when the moose population were booming and the numbers where high. Today is a totally different ball game. More tags mean more $$, nothing else. Its very sad when a guy can talk about the good ole days and its only from 7-9 years ago. Pretty sad and our game dept should be ashamed of themselves.
Post by: Rainier10 on February 13, 2015, 10:03:36 AM
A "moose regular" to me would be any of the guys that volunteer to help out with tags when people draw, guys that spend a lot of time in "moose areas" seeing the moose. Those guys are either hunting, working or shed hunting the areas the moose hang out in.I would also like to hear what the "moose regulars" think. And would be courious to know what the definition of a "moose regular" is.20 more moose tags=40 less moose shedsIt appears to be a shed thing. :chuckle:
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
Honestly though I would like to hear what some of the "moose regulars think" also.
I myself am what I think you would call a "coastie", I just get to read about the moose adventures and see the advice of "just drive around and shoot one, they are everywhere." I have been to the Mica Peak gmu twice for weekend deer hunting and have seen one moose in that limited time in the area, seemed big to me but I am in no way a "moose regular". I am happy to see more permits but only if it is sustainable.
I would hate to see something like we have had on the west side where they gave out a ton of elk permits in the St Helens area and now people are seeing way less elk. Permits are down and I believe opportunity has been lost. Hoof rot much like wolves on your side doesn't help.
Thanks for yours and Bullblasters input. There is another guy that normally chimes in on moose stuff, Pendorielleadventures. I would love to hear what he thinks.
Post by: Curly on February 13, 2015, 10:16:58 AM
Post by: Jonathan_S on February 13, 2015, 10:20:39 AM
The only issue I have is they give way to many cow tags in a couple units but other than that I am glad to see more tags. Now we just need a few K-9 tags and all will be good.
Agreed
Post by: idahohuntr on February 13, 2015, 10:38:49 AM
I am sure happy you explained yourself ! I have been wondering for a while now if you were a Bio yourself :dunno: :chuckle:No, I get the info. at public meetings talking with the bios. I have no affiliation with wdfw bios or anything like that.
Post by: Rainier10 on February 13, 2015, 10:46:08 AM
The complaining about the increase in permits just goes to show the lack of confidence in wdfw. I think a majority of hunters have lost confidence in them. Hopefully they can gain our confidence back soon.:yeah:
I think you are spot on. I know I am always thinking, "what's the angle." I have been to a few of the meetings and been able to talk to the WDFW employees during breaks to get a dialogue going and questions answered as to the reasoning of some of their decisions. Most of the time the reasoning makes sense but just doesn't work the way they anticipated or ends up having some other adverse affect that they didn't anticipate.
I think the most frustrating stuff is the knee jerk reaction like fires, tough winters or blue tongue.
Back on topic I hope the increase in tags in is response to a higher population of moose that can take the increased pressure without having an adverse affect on the resource.
Post by: huntnnw on February 15, 2015, 09:35:12 PM
I actually think it was good that Mica stayed the same at 7 tags...it was not good this past year. I know of 1 bull tag eaten and 2 cow tags
how much, if any, was that due to the Mica Peak motorized closure and people not willing to walk in for a moose?
none...I knew several who hunted their butts off one hunted almost the whole season without seeing what he considered a big bull lots of avg to dinks. Had a 18 straight days of hunting where he saw 0 bulls. The road access isnt that huge of a deal there are other options and they are very easy walks and a bike you could ride into the best parts of the mt in 15 min or less.
Post by: huntnnw on February 15, 2015, 09:40:51 PM
Post by: Buckblaster on March 03, 2015, 12:34:33 PM
Post by: huntnnw on March 08, 2015, 09:57:49 PM
Post by: buglebrush on March 08, 2015, 10:32:59 PM
Post by: PA BEN on March 14, 2015, 08:15:37 PM
Post by: Whitpirate on March 14, 2015, 10:57:24 PM
Post by: benhuntin on March 15, 2015, 05:16:28 AM
I'm torn on the 49 split. Hunt the rut or find a big bull. Tough choice on a good unit but the calendar change makes it a game changer.Draw either tag and you will do just fine.
Post by: Miles on March 15, 2015, 07:15:20 AM
Post by: Whitpirate on March 15, 2015, 07:44:31 AM
I'm torn on the 49 split. Hunt the rut or find a big bull. Tough choice on a good unit but the calendar change makes it a game changer.Draw either tag and you will do just fine.
I'm not worried it just changes the thoughts I've had on hunting that unit. Live had too much fun over there playing peek-a-boo in both months to know which one id have to have. The unit has been my #1 choice for 17 years but now I have to think about it vs a unit like Huckleberry with a longer season. If I draw I want to make the most out of the experience.
Post by: Biggerhammer on March 15, 2015, 10:28:32 AM
Post by: benhuntin on March 15, 2015, 01:11:18 PM
they split huckleberry toI'm torn on the 49 split. Hunt the rut or find a big bull. Tough choice on a good unit but the calendar change makes it a game changer.Draw either tag and you will do just fine.
I'm not worried it just changes the thoughts I've had on hunting that unit. Live had too much fun over there playing peek-a-boo in both months to know which one id have to have. The unit has been my #1 choice for 17 years but now I have to think about it vs a unit like Huckleberry with a longer season. If I draw I want to make the most out of the experience.
Post by: Whitpirate on March 15, 2015, 11:02:24 PM
Post by: bear nature on April 15, 2015, 03:56:56 PM
Post by: benhuntin on April 15, 2015, 04:05:33 PM
Post by: HUNTaHOLIC5 on April 15, 2015, 05:06:43 PM
And the Yakama tribe has moose tags up there too...Where did you here he Yakama tribe gets tags for moose?
:puke:
Post by: bobcat on April 15, 2015, 05:16:13 PM
Not sure one bull is servicing 40-50 cows, but I was with you til there
Maybe he meant to say 4-5 cows? I agree, 40-50 is quite optimistic! That would be one exhausted bull that probably wouldn't make it through he winter. :o
Post by: bear nature on April 16, 2015, 03:23:04 PM
Post by: buglebrush on April 16, 2015, 04:53:30 PM
I am worried about the future, because of the wolves. The most important measure we need to ensure future herd success is agressive predator management. :bash: Also, a lot of the moose up here have that nasty parasite the wolves spread. Make sure you carefully check your meat.
Post by: Ridgerunner on April 18, 2015, 08:43:00 PM
Post by: huntnnw on April 19, 2015, 10:27:50 PM
Post by: sagerat on April 26, 2015, 07:33:14 PM
Post by: benhuntin on April 26, 2015, 07:45:14 PM
It took me 6 days to find my cow a couple years ago... Maybe I'm just a bad moose hunter. They were not "everywhere" like you hear about. I sure hope our moose population holds steady.What unit?
Post by: sagerat on April 26, 2015, 08:26:10 PM
Post by: cem3434 on April 26, 2015, 08:39:08 PM
Post by: Big6bull on April 26, 2015, 09:29:22 PM