Post by: bigtex on February 10, 2015, 11:01:20 AM
I personally don't like it.
Post by: Jonathan_S on February 10, 2015, 11:07:12 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on February 10, 2015, 11:07:59 AM
There are probably lots that couldn't tell the difference.
Post by: Jonathan_S on February 10, 2015, 11:09:28 AM
:yeah:
There probably lots that couldn't tell the difference.
An even better point.
Post by: Curly on February 10, 2015, 01:21:08 PM
Isn't it better than simply going back to a 3 bird limit? :dunno:
Post by: Jonathan_S on February 10, 2015, 01:42:27 PM
The vast majority of grouse harvest is done by people who shoot every grouse they see in the road from 1 September to 31 December and I imagine that very few people ever even fill a 4/day limit How does a mixed bag change that?
Post by: RadSav on February 10, 2015, 01:52:08 PM
Seriously though, I think it opens the door for kids and less educated good honest folk to get into trouble.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on February 10, 2015, 01:57:22 PM
Was there a big decline? Herbicide spraying?
Post by: Curly on February 10, 2015, 01:58:28 PM
I think 3 of us wiped out an area of grouse when we limited on them 2 days in a row on opening weekend. The next year we couldn't find a single grouse in that area. Could have been a coincidence but I figured that we hurt the population of grouse in that immediate area for at least a year or two. :dunno: (This was back in '86 when the limit was 3 birds).
Post by: Skillet on February 10, 2015, 02:00:25 PM
I never realized it changed from a 3/day limit. :chuckle: So I get to shoot one more! :whoo:
Seriously though, I think it opens the door for kids and less educated good honest folk to get into trouble.
Yep, this kind of smells like a revenue generator that will result in some wasted game to me. Kind of like the true spike rule...
Post by: C-Money on February 10, 2015, 02:09:47 PM
Post by: bigtex on February 10, 2015, 02:56:11 PM
Either keep it at 4 or move it to three. Dont make it 4 but only 3 of one species.
Post by: bigtex on February 10, 2015, 02:57:41 PM
Revenue generator for who? WDFW doesn't get $ from tickets they write and this offense isn't a ticketable offense.I never realized it changed from a 3/day limit. :chuckle: So I get to shoot one more! :whoo:
Seriously though, I think it opens the door for kids and less educated good honest folk to get into trouble.
Yep, this kind of smells like a revenue generator that will result in some wasted game to me. Kind of like the true spike rule...
Post by: grundy53 on February 10, 2015, 03:01:35 PM
The limit increased to 4 because then Commissioner Gary Douvia fought for it. Now WDFW says grouse populations are declining and i personally agree.:yeah: make it one or a other.
Either keep it at 4 or move it to three. Dont make it 4 but only 3 of one species.
Post by: RB on February 10, 2015, 03:02:48 PM
The limit increased to 4 because then Commissioner Gary Douvia fought for it. Now WDFW says grouse populations are declining and i personally agree.:yeah:
Either keep it at 4 or move it to three. Dont make it 4 but only 3 of one species.
Post by: Curly on February 10, 2015, 03:13:16 PM
Lets say I take trip over to NE Washington to hunt grouse for a weekend since there are a lot of grouse in that part of the state. Well, that is a long drive and it sure would be nice to be able to have the chance at 4 birds instead of 3 if the biologists are suggesting it. Yeah, it's harder to get a mixed bag sometimes than all the same kind, but so what. It's not much different than duck hunting rules where you can get a total of 7 ducks but only some of the total bag limit can be made up of certain species and/or sex.
I just don't get the idea of arguing for less opportunity if the biologists are suggesting more opportunity. I don't get the problem here.
Post by: bigtex on February 10, 2015, 03:20:45 PM
I just don't get the idea of arguing for less opportunity if the biologists are suggesting more opportunity. I don't get the problem here.
Biologists aren't suggesting more opportunity, they are saying populations are declining! When Douvia pushed for the increase to 4 several years ago there wasn't much science behind it. Now we are facing the consequences.
Post by: MtnMuley on February 10, 2015, 03:27:04 PM
Post by: Curly on February 10, 2015, 03:31:34 PM
I just don't get the idea of arguing for less opportunity if the biologists are suggesting more opportunity. I don't get the problem here.
Biologists aren't suggesting more opportunity, they are saying populations are declining! When Douvia pushed for the increase to 4 several years ago there wasn't much science behind it. Now we are facing the consequences.
So, who is supporting the 3+1 bird limit then. I would assume biologists are supporting the idea? 3 bird limit vs. 3+1 limit is a reduction in opportunity ........not as bad as 3 bird vs. straight 4 bird limit, but still a reduction.
It sounded like you were suggesting a 3 bird limit, so that is less opportunity than the proposed 3+1 bird limit.
Post by: bobcat on February 10, 2015, 03:46:03 PM
Post by: Jonathan_S on February 10, 2015, 04:17:26 PM
I don't believe harvest by hunters has much effect overall on grouse numbers. A reduction of the daily limit from 4 to 3 would not have any significant effect, in my opinion. The bigger factors are weather, habitat, and predators. The best thing that could be done to bring grouse populations back up is a ban on herbicide use.
:yeah: A grouse population can be almost double from one year to the next and weather is the single biggest factor in that. Over time we've seen declines from predators that aren't reduced at all from methods such as effective trapping and hound hunting.
I second the herbicide comment
Post by: RadSav on February 10, 2015, 05:55:46 PM
Revenue generator for who? WDFW doesn't get $ from tickets they write and this offense isn't a ticketable offense.I never realized it changed from a 3/day limit. :chuckle: So I get to shoot one more! :whoo:
Seriously though, I think it opens the door for kids and less educated good honest folk to get into trouble.
Yep, this kind of smells like a revenue generator that will result in some wasted game to me. Kind of like the true spike rule...
What kind of offense is it? Don't you get a ticket for too many birds in a bag? Never been ticketed before so I'm just curious.
Post by: Man Tracker on February 10, 2015, 06:23:16 PM
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on February 10, 2015, 06:32:54 PM
Post by: Buck Rub Jr on February 10, 2015, 07:02:16 PM
Post by: bigtex on February 10, 2015, 07:08:20 PM
Like Man Tracker said it's a misdemeanor. Officers can no longer issue misdemeanor and gross misdemeanor tickets with a fine. All misdemeanors and gross misdemeanors must now go before a judge.What kind of offense is it? Don't you get a ticket for too many birds in a bag? Never been ticketed before so I'm just curious.Revenue generator for who? WDFW doesn't get $ from tickets they write and this offense isn't a ticketable offense.I never realized it changed from a 3/day limit. :chuckle: So I get to shoot one more! :whoo:
Seriously though, I think it opens the door for kids and less educated good honest folk to get into trouble.
Yep, this kind of smells like a revenue generator that will result in some wasted game to me. Kind of like the true spike rule...
Post by: trophyhunt on February 10, 2015, 07:17:16 PM
Post by: bobcat on February 10, 2015, 07:25:56 PM
Limit should only be 3, I hardly see grouse any more while in the woods. If herbicides are a big reason then they need to be banned, are causes even talked about at the wdfw? If so, are solutions talked about? Not trying to be an ass, really just wondering.
If you hardly see any what's the difference if the limit is 3 or 4? If that's the case a guy would be lucky to get just one. Maybe we need to have a tag for grouse just like turkeys. One per year. :chuckle:
The last good grouse year in SW Washington in my experience was 2009. I got a couple of 4 bird limits that year. Since then I think I've only killed one grouse each year. But I didn't hunt them either, since I wasn't seeing lots of them like I did in 2009. And that's the thing, when populations are low, hunting pressure is low as well.
That's why I don't think a change in the limit will make any difference. The limit could be 10 per day and l don't think it would have any affect on overall numbers. What we really need is a dry, warm spring. A ban on herbicides would be great as well, but we all know that will never happen.
Post by: MtnMuley on February 10, 2015, 07:28:45 PM
Post by: boneaddict on February 10, 2015, 07:34:56 PM
Post by: iusmc2002 on February 10, 2015, 07:36:22 PM
Post by: boneaddict on February 10, 2015, 07:36:48 PM
Limit should only be 3, I hardly see grouse any more while in the woods. If herbicides are a big reason then they need to be banned, are causes even talked about at the wdfw? If so, are solutions talked about? Not trying to be an ass, really just wondering.A couple wet springs, poor hatches and over harvest are taking their tolls. East side issues anyways, not so much herbs on this side imo
Post by: grundy53 on February 10, 2015, 07:43:44 PM
Post by: grundy53 on February 10, 2015, 07:44:36 PM
Post by: bobcat on February 10, 2015, 07:46:04 PM
Wasn't the limit only 3 back in 09??? :dunno:
No, it was 4.
Post by: Miles on February 10, 2015, 07:49:03 PM
Post by: boneaddict on February 10, 2015, 07:56:54 PM
Post by: jasnt on February 10, 2015, 07:59:50 PM
Post by: RadSav on February 10, 2015, 08:13:45 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on February 10, 2015, 08:37:46 PM
Post by: jasnt on February 10, 2015, 08:56:32 PM
Post by: RadSav on February 10, 2015, 09:03:06 PM
There are also years where I see good grouse numbers and bird concentrations. Other years where I see good numbers, but the birds are scattered around in singles. I've noticed good mushroom or berry years they are concentrated and bad shroom and berry years they are scattered. Much the same as the bear I chase in these same areas.
Post by: Special T on February 10, 2015, 11:54:48 PM
I don't believe harvest by hunters has much effect overall on grouse numbers. A reduction of the daily limit from 4 to 3 would not have any significant effect, in my opinion. The bigger factors are weather, habitat, and predators. The best thing that could be done to bring grouse populations back up is a ban on herbicide use.
Im Very inclined to agree with that statement. At least here on the west side I cant think of gettin a 3 bird limit, and that was even when all I was out for was that and rabbits walking old loggin roads.
Post by: csaaphill on February 11, 2015, 12:06:09 AM
Post by: fireweed on February 11, 2015, 08:23:50 AM
Up until a couple years ago the limit for grouse was 3. The limit was then changed to 4. WDFW is now proposing to keep the limit at 4 BUT only 3 of each species can be killed. So you could have 3 blues, and 1 ruffed, but not 4 ruffed.
I personally don't like it.
To add to the confusion there's no such thing as a blue grouse anymore. According to the biologist, blue grouse are now two new species: "Sooty Grouse" and " Dusky Grouse". Go figure.
Post by: Jonathan_S on February 11, 2015, 08:29:23 AM
3 should be the limit i never see if any more than one or two at anyone time!
:dunno: what does that have to do with anything?
Post by: boneaddict on February 11, 2015, 08:46:11 AM
Quote
So often times when I hear guys say it's a down year on grouse that is just roadside.
Believe it or not Rad, I actually get off the road. :chuckle: and if I wanted to kill three grouse, or 5 a day for the rest of my life I probably could do it. I don't think that's the point though. Numbers fluctuate, they are down overall, managing them shouldn't become more complicated.
Tongue and cheek, maybe we should kill all of them off just in case next winter is a hard one.
Post by: Jonathan_S on February 11, 2015, 09:18:31 AM
Post by: csaaphill on February 11, 2015, 01:33:38 PM
In our area they are down and have been down in numbers for years that's what it has to do with anything! >:(3 should be the limit i never see if any more than one or two at anyone time!
:dunno: what does that have to do with anything?
Post by: headshot5 on February 11, 2015, 02:01:26 PM
Post by: Jonathan_S on February 11, 2015, 03:44:19 PM
In our area they are down and have been down in numbers for years that's what it has to do with anything! >:(3 should be the limit i never see if any more than one or two at anyone time!
:dunno: what does that have to do with anything?
I guess what I meant was I see them in singles and pairs when the population is up and down and I don't think that is a great indicator either way. ;)
Post by: fair-chase on February 11, 2015, 03:52:26 PM
Post by: Special T on February 12, 2015, 11:47:58 AM
Post by: bobcat on February 12, 2015, 12:03:34 PM
It's been quite a few years since I've done it, but if I make the seven hour drive to Colville for two days of grouse hunting, I'd much rather have the four bird daily limit, even if it means I can only kill three blues, and one ruffed grouse, or vice versa.
I'm really surprised many people would prefer a reduction in hunting opportunity. Usually on this forum it's the other way around!
Post by: Special T on February 12, 2015, 12:06:49 PM
Post by: bobcat on February 12, 2015, 12:23:02 PM
Post by: csaaphill on February 12, 2015, 07:10:34 PM
Oh ok no worries :tup:In our area they are down and have been down in numbers for years that's what it has to do with anything! >:(3 should be the limit i never see if any more than one or two at anyone time!
:dunno: what does that have to do with anything?
I guess what I meant was I see them in singles and pairs when the population is up and down and I don't think that is a great indicator either way. ;)
Post by: ICEMAN on February 13, 2015, 08:30:42 AM
Post by: BigGoonTuna on February 13, 2015, 09:00:45 AM
How about reducing to two for adults and keeping kids at 4?...what's the point of that?
Post by: Jonathan_S on February 13, 2015, 09:03:02 AM
How about reducing to two for adults and keeping kids at 4?...what's the point of that?
Yeah I don't really understand that one either. Unless they are sitting in the middle of a road, grouse aren't really a kid friendly hunt are they?
Post by: Curly on February 13, 2015, 09:07:01 AM
Sure they are. Grouse are great for kids to hunt.How about reducing to two for adults and keeping kids at 4?...what's the point of that?
Yeah I don't really understand that one either. Unless they are sitting in the middle of a road, grouse aren't really a kid friendly hunt are they?
Post by: Jonathan_S on February 13, 2015, 10:17:49 AM
Sure they are. Grouse are great for kids to hunt.How about reducing to two for adults and keeping kids at 4?...what's the point of that?
Yeah I don't really understand that one either. Unless they are sitting in the middle of a road, grouse aren't really a kid friendly hunt are they?
Definitely a blast but actually grouse hunting? Like in waist deep brush when they blow up in all directions? I guess I am thinking of little kids not 13-16 year olds.
Post by: Curly on February 13, 2015, 10:26:20 AM
I still don't see a problem with the proposed 3 bird limit of 1 species plus 1 of another. However I would not want the limit for adults dropped down to 2. I suppose I wouldn't mind 3 bird limits for adults and 4 for kids, but why not just go with the 3 + 1 for all?
Post by: ICEMAN on February 13, 2015, 02:08:54 PM
How about reducing to two for adults and keeping kids at 4?...what's the point of that?Yeah I don't really understand that one either. Unless they are sitting in the middle of a road, grouse aren't really a kid friendly hunt are they?How about reducing to two for adults and keeping kids at 4?...what's the point of that?
Yeah I don't really understand that one either. Unless they are sitting in the middle of a road, grouse aren't really a kid friendly hunt are they?
The older I get, the more changes I want to see that could benefit kids, and encourage adults to get kids into the sport.
Post by: Jonathan_S on February 13, 2015, 03:41:12 PM
Post by: bearpaw on February 13, 2015, 04:42:32 PM
Up until a couple years ago the limit for grouse was 3. The limit was then changed to 4. WDFW is now proposing to keep the limit at 4 BUT only 3 of each species can be killed. So you could have 3 blues, and 1 ruffed, but not 4 ruffed.
I personally don't like it.
I agree, too complicated, too many hunters could unknowingly break this rule.
Post by: bobcat on February 13, 2015, 04:46:32 PM
:chuckle:
Duck limits are similar in that you need to identify which kind of ducks you're shooting and keep track of how many of each that you have.
Post by: Curly on February 13, 2015, 04:49:04 PM
Post by: bearpaw on February 13, 2015, 05:02:53 PM
What are you saying- hunters aren't smart enough to read?
:chuckle:
Duck limits are similar in that you need to identify which kind of ducks you're shooting and keep track of how many if each that you have.
I'm betting most grouse hunters will not realize the regs change for grouse. If grouse need managed that closely maybe it's time to make the limit 3 again for a while?
Post by: bobcat on February 13, 2015, 05:04:51 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on February 14, 2015, 07:27:25 AM
I understand what you're saying Ice but I'd rather see kids licenses be free instead of cutting adults opportunity in grouse hunting.
Fair enough.