Post by: Mxracer532 on March 12, 2015, 12:18:48 PM
Post by: Woodchuck on March 12, 2015, 12:26:31 PM
Post by: Mxracer532 on March 12, 2015, 12:41:36 PM
There is no issue with him helping people for free. There is however an issue when it comes to promoting a commercially licensed company and their website without a sponsor fee. Just like the ones every other commercial company that advertises on here pays.
There is a big difference between advertising to make $ and advertising to help people for free. I thought Huntwa was about helping fellow hunters? Dont you think that should be takin into consideration?
Post by: benhuntin on March 12, 2015, 12:44:37 PM
Post by: Woodchuck on March 12, 2015, 12:48:21 PM
There is an issue promoting a COMMERCIALLY LICENSED business and the business website unless a sponsor fee is paid.
This is not open to interpretation or debate.
Post by: TheHunt on March 12, 2015, 12:49:28 PM
So this is a method is to twist the knife on the idiots. Good job Luke Carrick... Keep at it!!!
Post by: Naches Sportsman on March 12, 2015, 12:50:09 PM
Post by: Mxracer532 on March 12, 2015, 12:50:44 PM
What are you talkin about? Who said you can't help people?I posted a link to Lov2hunt's website in which he will take/guide/help anyone on a first come first serve basis FOR FREE! But it got deleted since he doesnt pay a sponser fee to help anyone of us members for nothing but the thrill of a hunt in return. This man takes his vacation from his day job to help a complete stranger on their hunt and this site wants him to pay to help others. To me this is completely wrong.
Post by: Woodchuck on March 12, 2015, 12:54:08 PM
Again, there is no issue with him volunteering to help for free.I am not sure how I am being unclear on this. :bash:
There is an issue promoting a COMMERCIALLY LICENSED business and the business website unless a sponsor fee is paid.
This is not open to interpretation or debate.
Post by: Mxracer532 on March 12, 2015, 12:55:53 PM
From the website, it sure does look like it is a professional business. They probably cannot get a special use permit from the usfs to guide where they want to for money as there are people who hold that permit already :twocents:its a man who is professional about his passion of hunting and the great outdoors who gets to go on Quality hunts every year simply because he loves to help people on a hunt of a lifetime. So what if he has a website to help himself do what he loves??????
Post by: fillthefreezer on March 12, 2015, 01:06:00 PM
Post by: Mxracer532 on March 12, 2015, 01:07:50 PM
Post by: h20hunter on March 12, 2015, 01:15:19 PM
Post by: Todd_ID on March 12, 2015, 01:19:05 PM
Mx. I see your point. Just start a thread, tell your hunt story, and give his user handle. Don't post the link to his website. Then, you are in the clear. It seems pretty cut and dry. Besides, I'd think if he had that much of a problem he would put on his big boy pants, pay the $25 (I think thats it) and be a site sponser, or at the very least, speak for himself.:tup:
Plus arguing with Woodchuck will only get you splinters.
Post by: fillthefreezer on March 12, 2015, 01:24:05 PM
or at the very least, speak for himself.after the way he was treated the last time he was on here, i doubt id log on
Post by: h20hunter on March 12, 2015, 01:26:17 PM
Post by: Jacque on March 12, 2015, 01:29:07 PM
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on March 12, 2015, 01:30:21 PM
Post by: Mxracer532 on March 12, 2015, 01:32:09 PM
BINGO!!!!! The word of mouth is all he needs and he has plenty of guys to vouch for him.or at the very least, speak for himself.after the way he was treated the last time he was on here, i doubt id log on
Post by: h20hunter on March 12, 2015, 01:33:25 PM
Post by: jackelope on March 12, 2015, 01:37:04 PM
Since apparently a guy cant help anyone for FREE on this website everyone is going to have to become a paying sponser to offer help to our fellow huntwa members. So if anyone needs help on the OIL TAGS we have here in Wa contact me and i will get you in contact with Luv2hunt. Aka Luke Carrick a great freind.
Just a heads up....
Lov2hunt is the guy you're referring to. Luv2hunt is a completely different guy on here...
Post by: Mxracer532 on March 12, 2015, 01:37:42 PM
There you go. Sounds like he is all set....and more than likey....certainly not worried about a little old internet forum.Your right, just sucks for the fellow huntwa members who could have an amazing opportunity that otherwise wont.
Post by: h20hunter on March 12, 2015, 01:42:27 PM
Do we need this thread to continue? You've said your peace. Let it go.
Post by: jackelope on March 12, 2015, 02:51:29 PM
Post by: bearpaw on March 12, 2015, 03:12:18 PM
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/board,26.0.html (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/board,26.0.html)
Outfitters and Guides are also welcome on this forum as sponsors. Being a sponsor helps cover the cost of keeping this site on the web and functional. Like anyone, guides must earn a wage from their profession after paying all the permit fees, licenses, taxes, fuel, and maintaining equipment. That's why it seems guided hunts are costly. Many members choose to enlist the help of guides so we also openly support guides posting info about their services on the forum.
The law basically reads: If you accept any type of compensation (cash or merchandise) for activities on federal land you must be permitted, this also includes tips.
The professional looking website throws up a red flag. The guy spent money on the domain name and hosting, it appears he is selling other services on this website and attracting people there by saying he offers free guiding.
We need to know if the activities he is selling are on federal land and if they are legally permitted. It seems backcountry courses are likely on federal land. I also wonder if anyone has ever offered gratuities after a "free" hunt and if the gratuities were accepted? That would also not be legal.
H-W does not want illegal business promoted on the forum.
Until we can determine if this "professional looking free guide service" is legitimate, it will not be allowed on the forum. If we can determine it's legitimate and legal it's more than welcome on the forum.
Sending messages to Mxracer532 and Lov2Hunt.
Post by: bearpaw on March 13, 2015, 12:35:43 PM
The Guide Rite Adventures website offers free guiding and has an advertisement to a website called Magpul Core which sells classes. So there were two issues to resolve, first to determine if Guide Rite is a legal and free guide service and second to determine if Guide Rite is selling classes and if they should be a sponsor.
The current policy of H-W is that private sales are free but commercial advertisers pay to be a sponsor. These sponsor fees pay for the monthly rental of the dedicated site server and the technical help often needed to keep the site running. We see all kinds of attempts by commercial endeavors to gain free advertising, so this is routine for us to check out posts that appear to be commercial in nature.
I learned that Magpul Core is the new name for Magpul Dynamics which is a current forum sponsor and owned by CalenW. So I contacted CaylenW and Lov2Hunt (guiderite) to find answers to my questions. Here is what I learned:
Lov2Hunt has a successful career so he offers the free guide service so that he can participate in a few great hunts each year rather than wait for himself to draw and go on one great hunt in his lifetime. Because I share the same passion for the outdoors I can see the motivation for him to do this. I've heard accusations but I've seen no evidence and Lov2Hunt says he accepts no compensation, so this is perfectly legal.
It's the policy of H-W to promote hunters helping other hunters therefore Lov2Hunt (guiderite) is welcome to post his offer for free guiding on this board: http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/board,30.0.html (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/board,30.0.html)
CaylenW informed me that he changed the name of his business to Magpul Core and that Lov2Hunt (guiderite) helps him with the classes. So the classes are offered by a current forum sponsor, that settles that issue.
This topic is now unlocked, please keep it civil.
Post by: quadrafire on March 13, 2015, 12:48:31 PM
Post by: 7mag. on March 13, 2015, 01:17:38 PM
Post by: Mxracer532 on March 13, 2015, 01:21:23 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on March 13, 2015, 01:33:47 PM
Post by: Chesapeake on March 20, 2015, 11:32:52 AM
Seems a little sketchy. Probably putting himself out on a limb if someone were to get hurt and lawyer up. Free or not an offered "Service" comes with liability concerns. That and I'd assume the Magpul classes must be insured and they would need permitted as well. Might be real hard to claim separation between a "commercial" training operation and "Taking clients hunting for free". You'd never see a licensed Guide taking clients for free into an area he wasn't permitted to charge in.
THE FOREST SERVICE PERMIT PROCESS:
• Who needs a permit? Any individual or organization
providing commercial outfitting services on National Forest
Lands, including nonprofits, educational and institutional
groups. This includes activities that have a participation fee
or when there is the sale of a service, whether or not the
primary aim is to produce a profit.
Post by: JM on March 20, 2015, 02:04:03 PM
Seems a little sketchy. Probably putting himself out on a limb if someone were to get hurt and lawyer up. Free or not an offered "Service" comes with liability concerns. That and I'd assume the Magpul classes must be insured and they would need permitted as well. Might be real hard to claim separation between a "commercial" training operation and "Taking clients hunting for free". You'd never see a licensed Guide taking clients for free into an area he wasn't permitted to charge in.
THE FOREST SERVICE PERMIT PROCESS:
• Who needs a permit? Any individual or organization
providing commercial outfitting services on National Forest
Lands, including nonprofits, educational and institutional
groups. This includes activities that have a participation fee
or when there is the sale of a service, whether or not the
primary aim is to produce a profit.
So correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like the forest service is stating that a person doesn't need a permit if they aren't accepting any type of gratuities for their services??
Post by: SilkOnTheDrySide on March 20, 2015, 02:08:06 PM
Seems a little sketchy. Probably putting himself out on a limb if someone were to get hurt and lawyer up. Free or not an offered "Service" comes with liability concerns. That and I'd assume the Magpul classes must be insured and they would need permitted as well. Might be real hard to claim separation between a "commercial" training operation and "Taking clients hunting for free". You'd never see a licensed Guide taking clients for free into an area he wasn't permitted to charge in.
THE FOREST SERVICE PERMIT PROCESS:
• Who needs a permit? Any individual or organization
providing commercial outfitting services on National Forest
Lands, including nonprofits, educational and institutional
groups. This includes activities that have a participation fee
or when there is the sale of a service, whether or not the
primary aim is to produce a profit.
So correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like the forest service is stating that a person doesn't need a permit if they aren't accepting any type of gratuities for their services??
This whole thing has been hashed out. Luke is doing nothing wrong or illegal.
Time to move on.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: cem3434 on April 30, 2015, 10:21:21 PM
Post by: stevemiller on May 01, 2015, 11:12:01 PM