Post by: HoofsandWings on January 01, 2009, 07:13:44 PM
Post by: shorthair-on-point on January 02, 2009, 08:40:20 AM
Post by: HoofsandWings on January 07, 2009, 01:51:51 PM
I plan to pattern my shotgun with some new loads, eg. Environ Metals and Federal. Also, I have a new choke to test.
Post by: SpokaneSlayer on January 07, 2009, 01:55:38 PM
Post by: NWTFhunter on January 12, 2009, 03:18:51 PM
I also remember I was heading out through Colfax one day and saw 5 hens along the highway.
Post by: SpokaneSlayer on January 12, 2009, 03:51:53 PM
Post by: boneaddict on January 12, 2009, 04:23:09 PM
Post by: NWTFhunter on January 12, 2009, 09:11:39 PM
Post by: Gobble on January 13, 2009, 09:02:23 AM
Post by: NWTFhunter on January 13, 2009, 10:50:24 AM
Post by: HoofsandWings on January 19, 2009, 09:15:18 PM
Post by: HoofsandWings on January 22, 2009, 09:30:45 PM
Post by: HoofsandWings on January 25, 2009, 04:46:43 PM
Do they ever bunch up?
I am going for Rios for the opener. I plan to hunt from a ground blind because it will be cold and windy.
Thanks
Post by: Wacenturion on January 25, 2009, 05:27:29 PM
When should I start scouting for Easterns?
Do they ever bunch up?
I am going for Rios for the opener. I plan to hunt from a ground blind because it will be cold and windy.
Thanks
Easterns in western Wa. never bunch up like Merriam's and Rio's on the east side. Relatively small groups in dense understory.....you get the drift. Basically you are hunting sign of which the majority are droppings on graveled spurs and roads behind closed gates. The earlier and the longer you can dedicate time in looking for eastern sign....the better.
Post by: Tom Tamer on January 25, 2009, 06:21:21 PM
One thing I have thought of is with the weather we've had for openers the past few years I am looking to get some Snow camo
Post by: yelp on January 25, 2009, 07:20:28 PM
Post by: Tom Tamer on January 26, 2009, 04:04:23 PM
Post by: turkeyhunter on January 26, 2009, 04:47:23 PM
Post by: yelp on January 26, 2009, 04:56:19 PM
Post by: Wacenturion on January 26, 2009, 05:46:18 PM
Post by: NWTFhunter on January 26, 2009, 11:26:27 PM
Sounds like from the couple post above you might have some work to do.
Post by: turkeyhunter on January 27, 2009, 12:05:09 AM
Post by: Wacenturion on January 27, 2009, 09:24:00 AM
First .....
"The NWTF depends on money raised by banquets but at the same time puts back close to 60% into the State Super Fund to be used by the volunteers for local projects."
Key words here.....close to 60% and Super Fund.
Just over 40% goes right off the top to Edgefield to support the high salaries of the administration all the way down to the field staff. I find it unbelievable that the top 3-4 postions command in the range of 200k-400k with expenses. That should raise a red flag.
Not sure if % is correct due to all the net to gross manipulation that goes on that futher confuses the issue. Also if I remember right membership dollars all go to NWTF....no 60/40 there. So again.....60/40 split.....depends on how you manipulate it. Truth be know.....a whole lot less than 60%. But who cares we all got "Golden Gobbler" caps....lol.
State Super Fund....just another word for your account under our control, with a sign off to ensure our complete control. Another smoke and mirror job.
"There has already been this year $23,000.00 approved for Washington chapters to be used how they see fit."
Key words here......used how they see fit.
Wrong...........pretty much set up in a way to spend it the way the NWTF intended the chapters to spend it. Not to say some of the expenditures are not good....jakes etc. Not really criticizing some of the expenditures, just the control over it......or should I say subtle pressures to spend it here or there. Hard to explain unless you've been there and done that.
In reality, the only reason a now weakened state chapter system still even exists is because members enjoy getting together and feeling like they are making a difference for turkeys and related recreational opportunities. There's an established history of doing so. As far as the NWTF, it's has at times.....many times in fact , been an irritant. The Federation doesn't even want individual chapters to have their own bank accounts......again....control over chapters and dollars. Another red flag.
Just something that goes with the turf because of the Federation's support through things like "Chinese" banquet packages, etc. I am a chapter therefore I deal with the NWTF. Kinda like I am a dog, therefore I deal with fleas.
Post by: turkeyhunter on January 27, 2009, 02:17:28 PM
Post by: Wacenturion on January 27, 2009, 03:03:05 PM
To say.........
"Just because you do not believe in Consevation of the Wild Turkey and the Preservation of our Hunting Heritage does not mean you can run a great organization to the ground."
is absolutely ridiculous. Where did I say that? I'm extremely concerned about the conservation of the Washington's wild turkey, as well as other wildlife....just not the Federation's brand of conservation is all. That's your opinion because I pointed out some shortcomings I see in your parent organization. Yep....that the way it works.....just like I remember when I was involved. If you don't tow the party line, then you're part of the problem. Running a great organization into the ground? Nope ...just didn't drink as much kool-aid as some is all.
Where did I run you down? Don't think I said anything directed at you personally like I could have. Did I say you were here trolling for suckers? Could have...didn't. Oh...well I guess I just did.
Don't remember calling you a liar, but if it makes you feel better about speaking "your" truth, feel free to embrace it. I'll leave that up to you. I'm just pointing out some facts as I see them regarding the NWTF. Oh....and conservation is spelled with and "r" in it.
Post by: turkeyhunter on January 27, 2009, 03:44:59 PM
Post by: hornhunter on January 27, 2009, 03:53:00 PM
I was ONCE a member as well.
Excuse me sir but the fact that I am no longer a member of the NWTF as NOTHING to do me not believing in The Conservation of the Wild Turkey or Preservation of my hunting heritage. Mr Regional Director I would choose your words wisely on this site because the people here and the eyes that read these pages are as commited to their sport as you are to your position Im sure.
BTW Welcome to the site. :)
Im sure we all look forward to hearing more about whats going on with Washington and the NWTF.
Post by: yelp on January 27, 2009, 09:33:55 PM
Post by: Turkeyman on January 28, 2009, 05:57:27 AM
Post by: Gobble on January 28, 2009, 06:22:23 AM
Me Too!
Post by: Wacenturion on January 28, 2009, 07:30:48 AM
Post by: Intruder on January 28, 2009, 08:02:54 AM
I tend to agree with you regarding the NWTF. Overall, I believe in some of organization's goals but I don't believe they are run very well. Yelp... I'm guessing your concerns are related to the situation that occurred 2, 3 years ago in a small town just west of Spokane.
I've been a sponsor on several occasions and was an active chapter member for several years. But I've gotten frustrated with a lot of the stuff that's occurred with NWTF. They've done some real good work but I just don't trust them to spend my donations well. I still am a member but I will not sponsor them anymore.
Post by: hornhunter on January 28, 2009, 08:19:35 AM
Post by: Wacenturion on January 28, 2009, 09:05:09 AM
Yelp and Wacenturion,
I tend to agree with you regarding the NWTF. Overall, I believe in some of organization's goals but I don't believe they are run very well. Yelp... I'm guessing your concerns are related to the situation that occurred 2, 3 years ago in a small town just west of Spokane.
I've been a sponsor on several occasions and was an active chapter member for several years. But I've gotten frustrated with a lot of the stuff that's occurred with NWTF. They've done some real good work but I just don't trust them to spend my donations well. I still am a member but I will not sponsor them anymore.
Intruder......I think you have pretty well defined it. I too believe in some of their goals. I think the NWTF like many National Conservation organizations that have come onto the scene since the 70's, have forgotten what their core mission was....or should I say it got clouded by the almighty buck. Everything is a gimmick to get additional dollars instead of focusing on what's really important.
Yelp and I have also put in our time and money over the years only to collectively come up with our own inside joke......NWTF....."Not Worth The Frustration".
Just don't like the games, treatment of volunteers, reluctance of taking on the WDFW when necessary, behind the scene politics, and weird monetary control tactics the Federation brings with it to mention a few. However I do wish them well, particularly the members who give of their time and money. Just wish they were appreciated more. But then again, the Federation doesn't have to worry if someone disagrees....there is always someone else out there ready to get involved for some free turkey glasses and "you're just the guy we need to run the chapter" pat on the back.
Been there, done that......DONE!
Post by: yelp on January 28, 2009, 09:15:26 AM
Post by: Turkeyman on January 28, 2009, 09:17:21 AM
Post by: turkeyhunter on January 28, 2009, 11:48:24 AM
Post by: yelp on January 28, 2009, 11:56:34 AM
I am going to keep coming back until I find one person on this site that has something positive to say, Sorry you guy's have had such a terrible time with the NWTF. I am still sort of new I will have to wait a few years and see if I get the same treatment...In the mean time keep hunting, and remember that Gobbler you hear opening morning as your sitting in your favorite spot waiting for everything to come together would not have happened without volunteers that wanted to see it happen and an organization that made it happen....Getting ready for the State meeting Saturday morning and a Banquet in Vancouver the same evening. I will post the the outcome of the event when I get back and also the number of people I ticked off...Have a good day
Well Dave part of your statement is true but in my opinion not all. Volunteers were an important part of the process, but the history of WA turkey releases didn't always involve the NWTF..I will let Wacenturion comment to that more. I hope you are a more effective and successful RD too. Just remember that all of your successes aren't yours it was made possible by volunteers giving of their time. They don't get paid like you do. They have to find the time first of all and then give it to make you successful. Good luck.
Post by: Intruder on January 28, 2009, 12:19:53 PM
I do not want to speak for anyone else but I in general have a (+) opinion of the NWTF. They have done some great work in WA and around the country. I still support them from a membership perspective and absolutely love that part of their mission statement addresses preservation of "hunting heritage" which to me separates them from many orgs.
My criticism is generally related to what appears to be a loss of direction and focus as well as organizational inefficiencies. Adding to that, the org is based back east so there is far less focus on the west (understandable based on the membership base). With the reestablishment of birds throughout the country the org seems to be struggling to find it's way.
Hopefully you can have a positive impact and bring some fresh perspectives and renewed energy to the NWTF. A sincere best of luck to you!!!
Post by: turkeyhunter on January 28, 2009, 01:50:31 PM
Post by: yelp on January 28, 2009, 02:16:30 PM
That is the problem....It is now thought of as a Company....Not a non-profit 501-c. :dunno: :dunno:
Post by: Wacenturion on January 28, 2009, 02:35:32 PM
I am going to keep coming back until I find one person on this site that has something positive to say, Sorry you guy's have had such a terrible time with the NWTF. I am still sort of new I will have to wait a few years and see if I get the same treatment...In the mean time keep hunting, and remember that Gobbler you hear opening morning as your sitting in your favorite spot waiting for everything to come together would not have happened without volunteers that wanted to see it happen and an organization that made it happen....Getting ready for the State meeting Saturday morning and a Banquet in Vancouver the same evening. I will post the the outcome of the event when I get back and also the number of people I ticked off...Have a good day
Sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree with you. The Wa. chapter system (local chapters) was built on the already agressive turkey introduction program that was iniatated in the mid-80's and continued till 2000.
The new chapters and growing statewide turkey hunting interest did help in a PR way, but with or without the NWTF the releases would have occured. Remember the full chapter system in place today wasn't up and running until well into introductions and after they were done. Most of the Rio and Merriams were already out there and generating a surge in turkey hunting. Approximately 1/2 of the current chapters were on board and starting to make money when Washington got into the last of the eastern releases from Iowa. Easterns from Pa. and Missouri had been released in the 80's and early 90's. In fact the NWTF at the national level got their fingers into whole operation and turned the agreements for birds between state F&W agencies into financial fiasco.
History lesson for you all'............It did not cost upwards of $500 a bird(easterns...others less), until the NWTF got in the middle of the efforts going on between states, sometimes trading, most times nothing required in trade...states were just glad to help. Along comes the NWTF and gets involved in setting up a system of values whereby the receiving state's superfund (i.e. Washington) transfers super fund dollars to the donating state (i.e. Iowa...in the case of easterns sent) @ $500 a bird.
These costs by subspecies were determined after the federation queried the NWTF technical reps. (state turkey bio to the nwtf) what it cost to trap and transfer birds. Pretty nonscientific estimates at the least. Then low and behold a new middle man NWTF system came to be....with a percentage cut for administrative costs going directly to the NWTF, above and beyond the transferred super funds. In the case of a state(i.e. Washington) not having those kind of dollars available to buy a large number of birds due to chapters just really coming on board, the NWTF, out of the kindness of their heart loaned the money on paper....of course with an additional interest charge. Like the Iowa super fund needed more money.....all of those Wa. super fund dollars that went to pay for birds could have been spent on other things.
So, for the sake of being correct............ It was the direct result of your own Department's turkey program and those of Oregon, California, Idaho etc. that brought you turkeys and the rest of the west the excitement of the "gobble" you all enjoy today.
Now before you get excited, I'm not saying the NWTF Chapters and their volunteers don't do great things by their support and all their time they give. What I am saying is that like many conservation organizations that started with the right intent and purpose, much of that at the national level has been blurred over the years by the almighty dollar. Just fact. Why do you think there are all these extensions like multiple memberships depending on how many banquets you attend each year, WITO, Jakes, Wheeling Sportsmen etc. Great programs to say the least, especially Jakes, but designed for the most part to get additional membership fees. Why not have these programs without menbership costs? Superfund dollars would cover them. Sorry to be blunt, but god forbid we get to a "Pets in the Woods" program. Just food for thought.
Oh....and typical for the NWTF to try to leave the impression they did it all. Think about it.....for one the NWTF doesn't even have the power or authority to release birds in different states. Geez....give me a break.
Post by: strutnrut1984 on January 28, 2009, 04:03:06 PM
Post by: yelp on January 28, 2009, 04:30:04 PM
Wild turkeys aren't native like back east...Bringing in wild stock and releasing them so that we can have a huntable population took a lot of work and effort by a lot of people. Not only a huntable populaiton but three seperate huntable subspecies within one state. The NWTF came in after the fact, yet they like to claim that they are the reason for every turkey in every tree. The banquets were fun....I like some of the programs (Wheelin sportsman, JAKES) they offer, but I was involved for 10 years and after ahwhile it reminded me of a cult following...and like in a previous post mentioned if you didn't drink the koolaid well you were a problem...Just stating the fact that the NWTF's roots are still in South Carolina not in Washington State.
Turkey hunting is still relatively new here in Washington so we have lots of new excited hunters and we have great opportunities in the field because of the efforts of several people who wanted an opportunity to hunt wild turkeys in Washington State someday.
I feel bad that we hijacked this thread.....later.
Post by: strutnrut1984 on January 28, 2009, 09:26:08 PM
Post by: turkeyhunter on January 28, 2009, 10:26:57 PM
Post by: Turkeyman on January 28, 2009, 11:49:35 PM
Post by: NWTFhunter on January 29, 2009, 03:10:14 AM
The same thing is happening in Ca right now. The Bio there made a proposal to generate $ for the state chapter to work with and the CDFG shot it to pieces, but turns right around and tries to take it upon themselves to create what Ryan was doing because they didnt want to share the money.
Has National done everything the right way? No
Has RMEF, BASS or any of the other groups done everything the right way ? No.
Running an org takes $$ to operate. Plain and simple.
Is the core package getting better ?
You damn right it is. We had a state meeting in Ca a couple of years ago and said we dont want this crap that is being imported. I guess we were not the only ones screaming, as it changed the next year. Can it get better ? Yes.
Will it? With further pressure from a collective voice it will. Its just like politics, you can have a small group bitching about something and the majority feeling the same way. But if the majority doesnt speak up nothing is going to change. (that wasnt included by accident)
Is Dave a stand up guy ? Yes he is. Will he work for a better Wa NWTF yes he will. But we all have to be on the same page.
Wa, the turkey transplants that were conducted did cost us big money. Ca had the same thing happen to them, because there wasnt a majority voice in place to say no, were not paying that for trap and transfers, nor the $$ to fund it ourselves. So we were at Nationals mercy.
Will the National convention ever be held in the west, or midwest ? I dont see why it shouldnt be.
There has been requests to have it closer, but if it isnt a general consensus by all in the west it isnt going to happen.
I would love to go to the National convention someday.
Sorry for the continued jack, but I thought that Dave needed a little support.
Post by: Wacenturion on January 29, 2009, 03:23:38 AM
Bitter is the understatement of the year, give me a call and I will get you in contact with a chapter in your area, I thought this was a forum for Turkey hunters, what is all the talk about stealing and hijacking this thread ? please explain how this site works, you have explained everything else with no problem.....Remember to the folks reading these remarks that all of the negative comments are coming from guy's that have been affiliated with the NWTF 10 + years....If it is such a terrible 501c3 organization why did they stay around so long ? I was warned by many people before I put my first remark on this site, In hindsight I think now I should have listened.....Yelp....I did the 501c3 for you...I will watch what I write more careful...I had my spelling lesson yesterday and today I accidental wrote company....I am just glad I did not write Corporation...Probably would have gotten a knock on the door....How do I start a new thread for folks that want to hear the good stuff...Please let me know ?
1. Stealing and hijacking the thread.....meaning....The thread was about spring turkey season 3 1/2 months away, then you posted about needing people to start new chapters and NWTF banquets.....thus the subject matter changed. Commonly referred to as hijacking. Not necessarily you who hijacked....but initiated the possibility when you posted. So I hope that explains it for you.
2. "Remember to the folks reading these remarks that all of the negative comments are coming from guy's that have been affiliated with the NWTF 10 + years....If it is such a terrible 501c3 organization why did they stay around so long ?"
Maybe because these were some of the folks that initially started the chapter system before NWTF staff was on the scene. Put in several years getting it going, then enough money was starting to get generated.....NWTF puts RD in Northwest having Wa., Oregon, Hawaii as his area. Couple more years go by and folks get treated like crap, talked down too, have to deal with stupid Federation rules regarding banquets and money issues and eventually volunteers figure out the scam. Thus your 10 year span. Was fun and productive until these things happened.
3. "will watch what I write more careful...I had my spelling lesson yesterday and today I accidental wrote company....I am just glad I did not write Corporation..."
The reason I took a cheap shop at your spelling was because you said to me.....
"Just because you do not believe in Consevation of the Wild Turkey and the Preservation of our Hunting Heritage does not mean you can run a great organization to the ground."
A completely ridiculous statement as you know nothing about my commitment regarding conservation. Just figured if you were going to question an individual's "conservation" stance, you should first learn how to spell it.
4. "How do I start a new thread for folks that want to hear the good stuff...Please let me know
Go to any forum...i.e. Turkey hunting, look across the top where it says subject matter, replies, and last post. Right above last post is a box that says New Topic. Click on it and start a new thread. It's that easy. Be advised though.....you will get comments back from all sides on issues or subject matter you post. That's how forums work.
Post by: Wacenturion on January 29, 2009, 03:30:53 AM
"Well, your talking about the game dept. what do you expect ? I remember that when the individual tags were proposed they wanted it all. But we fought them and got some."
Can you explain what you are talking about....thanks.
Post by: Turkeyman on January 29, 2009, 03:52:34 AM
Post by: Wacenturion on January 29, 2009, 04:09:34 AM
As far as the hunting....pretty tough to change the season and close it as it requires Commission action and all kinds of WAC revisions and timelines. Had similar things go on with hunting on other Eastern release sites in Thurston County by some of the NWTF members that went along and helped on the releases. They were supposed to leave them alone that year....most did...some didn't. Other people just happened to see some of the birds and hunted them. Fortunately the actual hunting posed no threat to the population.
Post by: NWTFhunter on January 29, 2009, 04:51:09 AM
NWTFHunter.....you said......
"Well, your talking about the game dept. what do you expect ? I remember that when the individual tags were proposed they wanted it all. But we fought them and got some."
Can you explain what you are talking about....thanks.
Sorry, the WDFW wanted to use all the money for the new tag sales here. The NWTF got them to split the money from sales.
Post by: NWTFhunter on January 29, 2009, 04:53:59 AM
Turkeyman......I think I know the Biologist you are talking about.....initials...P.M.? Yep....stupid people piss people off. The Regional office.......P.M. and his boss in Vancouver, the Regional Wildlife Bio. played all kinds of games on some of the proposed Eastern releases down there.....like...that's all this year when there were more birds ready to be released on a given day and had to be sent elsewhere.
As far as the hunting....pretty tough to change the season and close it as it requires Commission action and all kinds of WAC revisions and timelines. Had similar things go on with hunting on other Eastern release sites in Thurston County by some of the NWTF members that went along and helped on the releases. They were supposed to leave them alone that year....most did...some didn't. Other people just happened to see some of the birds and hunted them. Fortunately the actual hunting posed no threat to the population.
What should have happened was the WDFW Dir. enact a halt to hunting on any new release site.
If there are future releases, the NWTF should ensure that no hunting will take place for 1 year, or we wont fund or support it.
Its just thinking ahead... which I dont think was done in this case. I dont know who was to blame, nor care as long as it doesnt happen again.
Post by: Wacenturion on January 29, 2009, 04:54:41 AM
Post by: NWTFhunter on January 29, 2009, 05:06:26 AM
Post by: Wacenturion on January 29, 2009, 05:15:22 AM
Turkeyman......I think I know the Biologist you are talking about.....initials...P.M.? Yep....stupid people piss people off. The Regional office.......P.M. and his boss in Vancouver, the Regional Wildlife Bio. played all kinds of games on some of the proposed Eastern releases down there.....like...that's all this year when there were more birds ready to be released on a given day and had to be sent elsewhere.
As far as the hunting....pretty tough to change the season and close it as it requires Commission action and all kinds of WAC revisions and timelines. Had similar things go on with hunting on other Eastern release sites in Thurston County by some of the NWTF members that went along and helped on the releases. They were supposed to leave them alone that year....most did...some didn't. Other people just happened to see some of the birds and hunted them. Fortunately the actual hunting posed no threat to the population.
What should have happened was the WDFW Dir. enact a halt to hunting on any new release site.
If there are future releases, the NWTF should ensure that no hunting will take place for 1 year, or we wont fund or support it.
Its just thinking ahead... which I dont think was done in this case. I dont know who was to blame, nor care as long as it doesnt happen again.
You have to understand that some of the release sites were in areas where Easterns had already been released and seasons were open. Other areas were new in as far as the individual county was concerned. The only people that knew the sites were the WDFW folks and the NWTF members who assisted. It was an honor thing. A few took advantage of the situation...although some of the tales I heard are false. You know...so and so got an Eastern so it had to come from the release site....wrong. So there's some of that in the mix also.
I hear ya and where you are coming from, but the logistics of shutting down areas has it negatives. The main thing to remember is that every tom is expendable once breeding takes place. That coupled with the difficulty of taking easterns in western Wa. make what little incidental harvest that took place in and around these sites insignificant.
Post by: Wacenturion on January 29, 2009, 05:19:36 AM
Im not sure if the raffle tags came into account, I dont think so. But this goes back to when you got 3 tags with your small game lic. and then had to purchase them seperately.
OK....the separate tags....one for each subspecies. So could you explain what you're referencing the NWTF did in regards to these. You said............
"Well, your talking about the game dept. what do you expect ? I remember that when the individual tags were proposed they wanted it all. But we fought them and got some."
Post by: NWTFhunter on January 29, 2009, 05:50:16 AM
Now I dont know how it all worked out as in what % the state nwtf gets or does with the monies generated, as I was heading to Cali at that time the details were worked out. But the $ probably goes into the superfund ?
Post by: yelp on January 29, 2009, 05:56:03 AM
Post by: yelp on January 29, 2009, 06:06:10 AM
Post by: NWTFhunter on January 29, 2009, 06:53:30 AM
wow....didn't know that..do they still do that today NWTFHunter....or was that just back when they seperated them? ....NWTF demanded a proportion of tag sales from WDFW for thier efforts? :o
I stand corrected. The deal that was worked out was that WDFW had to use a portion of that for turkey enhancement and research.
I was incorrect.
Post by: Wacenturion on January 29, 2009, 07:57:32 AM
The initial separate tags were designed for the Washington Slam....or to be correct, the Washington Slam came as a result of them. It was a unique opportunity to give Washington sportsmen the ability to harvest an Eastern, Merriam's, and a Rio Grande in the same year, same state. That was the brain child of the person who ran the turkey program at that time and not the NWTF. That's why management in our state went the three subspecies route rather than the rush to just get Rio's like Oregon and others during the 80's. That should also be a clue...the 80's....the chapter system, that being the local chapters didn't come on the scene till the early 90's.
There seems to be quite a bit of confusion out there as to some of the history and who did what.
Post by: turkeyhunter on January 29, 2009, 07:59:02 AM
Post by: Wacenturion on January 29, 2009, 08:03:27 AM
"The biggest problem with this State is not finding volunteers it is keeping them,"
I rest my case.
Post by: Wacenturion on January 29, 2009, 08:37:00 AM
I think it is great you guy's get so worked up on these issues, passionate volunteers is what founded this organization and it is that same hard work and determination that has put us where we are at today, 586,000 members can not all be wrong.
A couple statements from a news release on the firings at the NWTF last year.......
National Wild Turkey firings prompt civil complaints
By Rob Pavey | Staff Writer
Friday, April 25, 2008 5:58 p.m. Two senior National Wild Turkey Federation executives fired on March 25 sued the organization and its governing board Friday, alleging their termination was the result of "a well orchestrated smear campaign" that involved lies and defamation. The civil complaints were filed in Common Pleas Court of Edgefield County.
"Although the NWTF, based in Edgefield, S.C., claims 550,000 members, it was a longstanding and routine practice to assign donated memberships to names of expired members, the lawsuit contends.
"The donated memberships are received during NWTF fundraising banquets held at 2,300 towns across America," the complaint said.
Each attendee who buys a banquet ticket receives an adult membership, but sometimes people multiple tickets, leaving "memberships" for which no names are available.
The federation routinely takes the "donated memberships" and assigns them to names of expired members or to those who signed up at special events for youths and disabled sportsmen, the lawsuit said."
Listen....if the membership numbers are wrong then all those members can be wrong.... or at least the "ghost" ones. Even the numbers are questionable......in my mind just another deceitful attempt at claiming more than they are responsible for.
Oh....and those wern't donated memberships. They were all the extra memberships forced down our throats when we went to our 2nd, 3rd, 4th banquets of the year to help other chapters and spend more of our money in support of them and the NWTF. What a crock of crap.....donated my ass. Keep drinking the kool-aid folks.
:kneel:
Post by: NWTFhunter on January 29, 2009, 08:47:04 AM
This has been in Wa, Id, and Ca.
Many of my comitte members in Ca went to other chapter banquets, and did NOT pay for another membership !
I will argue that point with you over and over.
Post by: NWTFhunter on January 29, 2009, 08:47:50 AM
Post by: Wacenturion on January 29, 2009, 08:50:01 AM
Wa, sent you a PM asking if you were active in a chapter in 05? Didnt hear back.
What's that got to do with anything?
Post by: NWTFhunter on January 29, 2009, 08:50:52 AM
Post by: Wacenturion on January 29, 2009, 08:58:01 AM
Wa, I have been to MANY banquets and NEVER told to buy another membership ! Have only paid for the dinner.
This has been in Wa, Id, and Ca.
Many of my comitte members in Ca went to other chapter banquets, and did NOT pay for another membership !
I will argue that point with you over and over.
You can argue all you want......but I'm telling you that was the way it was when many of us were involved. Some of the chapters would only charge for dinners because we all thought it was stupid, but the RD wasn't happy about it. Always questioning and saying that it was policy.
If that has changed ...great...a good thing. Maybe Turkeyhunter, the RD can make it official here right now by stating such.
Post by: Wacenturion on January 29, 2009, 08:58:53 AM
Asking you if you were active in 05
Again......what's your point?
Post by: NWTFhunter on January 29, 2009, 09:06:24 AM
Yes, I made a mistake in saying a portion of those monies generated came back to the NWTF. What was worked out was that all the monies would not go into the general fund, but some would be used in turkey conservation.
Im sorry that you have such a bad outlook on the org. Things have changed. Not everything is good, as in every org there is going to be good with bad. But with a sound group of people and a collective voice things can get better.
Post by: turkeyhunter on January 29, 2009, 09:11:19 AM
Post by: NWTFhunter on January 29, 2009, 09:28:09 AM
I dont think Jeff, or Lyle can say they have either.
Post by: Wacenturion on January 29, 2009, 09:35:44 AM
I have never charged a member an additional membership when they attend another banquet in the State, I do not know where your info is coming from but it is not correct, wonder how that lawsuit turned out ? gotta stand firm but at the same time have to know all the facts..Do you agree ?
Not to be cute here....but are we talking semantics? you said...
"I have never charged a member an additional membership when they attend another banquet in the State"
You personally wouldn't be charging someone as the chapter person who sets at the registration table at the banquet does that....usually members or their wives.
If we're not being semantically correct, then I assume what you are saying is that you are not requiring chapters to charge a membership for all those attending a banquet if they are already a member for that year and that the banquet/membership policy of the NWTF is the same......... Correct?
If so......you're making progress....a good thing.
Post by: turkeyhunter on January 29, 2009, 09:37:19 AM
Post by: turkeyhunter on January 29, 2009, 09:42:56 AM
Post by: turkeyhunter on January 29, 2009, 09:49:58 AM
Post by: Wacenturion on January 29, 2009, 10:02:45 AM
RMEF,DU,Pheasant Forever, Mule Deer, QDMA,NRA,NWTF, naming just a few..All membership based, all hold fund raising banquets,all are apparently doing it wrong according to you, Without memberships and product to sell to generate funds why do we do this, in fact why are we even talking about it now ?...I will tell you the reason..Because we believe in the overall goal of these organizations. Might not be perfect, but we strive to do the best we can with what we have to work with.Thanks for the comments WA you do have some very valid points...In reference to my statement about the volunteers, I will finish my thought on that...The problem with Washington State volunteers is not finding them it is keeping them from being criticized and knocked down at every turn by people that take a bad experience they had 10 years ago and compound it by 100% and bad mouth these organizations at every turn. I will go into a chapter meeting and a grown man will tell me that 13 years ago the committee picked roast beef for dinner and he wanted prime rib, and he is still MAD about it......Folks we are on the same team here.....get over it and get involved and make a difference....It might not be what it was when you got started but it can be what make it....Maybe I should put that on a recruiting poster....OK round 5
Never said all the groups you mention above are doing it wrong. Where do you come up with this stuff? As one example Pheasants Forever does it better because the majority of funds generated at banquests belongs to and remains with the individual chapters. Much better in my opinion for the members and the state than the way the NWTF does it.
Get over what? You said earlier.......
"gotta stand firm but at the same time have to know all the facts..Do you agree ?"
Yep....I agree. Just doing my part.
Oh....and as far as banquet memberships and the policy now......good deal. A big improvement! Congrats to you!
Post by: strutnrut1984 on January 29, 2009, 10:40:52 AM
Post by: turkeyhunter on January 29, 2009, 10:50:38 AM
Post by: Wacenturion on January 29, 2009, 11:24:39 AM
in pennsylvania the nwtf and the pgc work hand in hand. when i was a kid in the early 70s to see a turkey was a very rare site . now to see flocks of 100 or more is pretty common. the trap and transfer system worked great. also in the beginning they had game farms to raise poults. i would love to see that here. we shouldnt be bickering here too. we are all brothers here with a love of this great sport . united we must be. divided this will surely all end. strut
When Pennsylvania got out of the game farm turkey business and into relocating wild trapped birds, their restoration efforts took off. All the birds you see back there now are a result of that.....not their game farm program.
Post by: Wacenturion on January 29, 2009, 11:32:36 AM
Well said Strut...not bickering...but at the same time not getting anywhere.....Thanks for the comments
In who's opinion. Discussion is healthy......everyone benefits and learns something. See...I just learned that you don't have multiple membership policies at the door anymore. A good thing. Hope you take something positive from it all. :twocents:
Post by: strutnrut1984 on January 29, 2009, 11:41:19 AM
Post by: Wacenturion on January 29, 2009, 12:01:45 PM
that's what i was saying. the game farms were only in a few years to get a start
No...what you said was..............
"also in the beginning they had game farms to raise poults. i would love to see that here."
Not to get a start.....nothing started from those game farms except tame turkeys. Love to see that here implies that you think that would be the way to do it here.
Post by: strutnrut1984 on January 29, 2009, 12:13:43 PM
Post by: Wacenturion on January 29, 2009, 12:58:21 PM
Post by: turkeyhunter on January 29, 2009, 01:39:53 PM
Post by: NWTFhunter on January 29, 2009, 02:14:21 PM
Post by: turkeyhunter on January 29, 2009, 02:29:15 PM
Post by: yelp on January 29, 2009, 05:18:03 PM
My wish is that the collective goal out there is that efforts are 100% for Washington State's Wild Turkeys. We need to work and protect past, present and future efforts. No offense personally, if my remarks were pointed...I appreciate the conversations and remarks from all of you, we will have to agree to disagree on some things. Hope your mornings are filled with gobbles.
Yelp
Post by: Gutpile on January 29, 2009, 05:38:22 PM
Post by: jackelope on January 29, 2009, 05:52:32 PM