Post by: wolfbait on March 30, 2015, 10:39:52 AM
http://tomremington.com/2015/03/27/the-mess-current-idaho-fg-commissioners-inherited-is-not-wildlife-conservation/ (http://tomremington.com/2015/03/27/the-mess-current-idaho-fg-commissioners-inherited-is-not-wildlife-conservation/)
Post by: mfswallace on March 30, 2015, 03:46:46 PM
And to those who say this won't change anything, :bash:
Post by: idahohuntr on March 31, 2015, 12:38:53 PM
Post by: jasnt on March 31, 2015, 01:19:28 PM
Keep it up!!! :tup::yeah:
And to those who say this won't change anything, :bash:
Post by: mfswallace on March 31, 2015, 02:30:52 PM
Tom Remington and George Dovel wouldn't know wildlife conservation if it walked up and spit in their face. I started to read some of the article and then realized it was just some re-tread garbage dug up from stale old meaningless arguments about what letter a former director signed back in the early 90's. I don't understand why these fiction writers can't come up with new stuff...when you are not bound by facts and accurate reporting it should be easy to produce new material. :dunno:
Would you know wildlife conservation if Tom Remington spit in your face?
I'm guessing Tom Remington has forgotten more about wildlife conservation in his older age than you know in your youthful new age ignorance...
There's more than just a letter but you don't care to read more or accept the re-introduction of wolves as being done with skewed facts and lies
Why would you believe the "facts and numbers" of agencies that have been proven to manipulate, outright lie and steal to do whatever they want :dunno:
Post by: idahohuntr on March 31, 2015, 07:17:56 PM
Tom Remington and George Dovel wouldn't know wildlife conservation if it walked up and spit in their face. I started to read some of the article and then realized it was just some re-tread garbage dug up from stale old meaningless arguments about what letter a former director signed back in the early 90's. I don't understand why these fiction writers can't come up with new stuff...when you are not bound by facts and accurate reporting it should be easy to produce new material. :dunno:
Would you know wildlife conservation if Tom Remington spit in your face?
I'm guessing Tom Remington has forgotten more about wildlife conservation in his older age than you know in your youthful new age ignorance...
There's more than just a letter but you don't care to read more or accept the re-introduction of wolves as being done with skewed facts and lies
Why would you believe the "facts and numbers" of agencies that have been proven to manipulate, outright lie and steal to do whatever they want :dunno:
I'm just pointing out the obvious...it does no good to get worked up over what any state agency role was with respect to wolf re-introduction. The federal government had authority under ESA to re-introduce wolves. The President of the United States showed up to help release the darn wolves. I think its ridiculous some folks believe a low level bureaucrat like an IDFG director could possibly have stopped wolf reintroduction in Idaho. There is no believing in "facts and numbers" when talking wolves. Like it or not the federal government had the authority to re-introduce wolves to recover an endangered species...they did not need IDFG permission, they did not need to prove there would be no negative impacts to hunters, other wildlife, rural communities...whatever the concern. I understand people don't like that and many of those criticisms are often repeated as reasons for modifying ESA law; but its important to acknowledge reality when understanding where ones effort should be placed in fighting to ensure wildlife is managed in a way that protects the hunting heritage...which I would hope is a mutual concern of folks on this forum.
Post by: mfswallace on March 31, 2015, 08:28:46 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on March 31, 2015, 08:47:35 PM
Post by: mfswallace on April 01, 2015, 06:11:06 AM
Being endangered and being listed under the Endangered Species Act are sometimes different things.
How convenient 4 your conscience :chuckle:
Post by: idahohuntr on April 01, 2015, 06:38:30 AM
Post by: wolfbait on April 01, 2015, 06:47:25 AM
Tom Remington and George Dovel wouldn't know wildlife conservation if it walked up and spit in their face. I started to read some of the article and then realized it was just some re-tread garbage dug up from stale old meaningless arguments about what letter a former director signed back in the early 90's. I don't understand why these fiction writers can't come up with new stuff...when you are not bound by facts and accurate reporting it should be easy to produce new material. :dunno:
Would you know wildlife conservation if Tom Remington spit in your face?
I'm guessing Tom Remington has forgotten more about wildlife conservation in his older age than you know in your youthful new age ignorance...
There's more than just a letter but you don't care to read more or accept the re-introduction of wolves as being done with skewed facts and lies
Why would you believe the "facts and numbers" of agencies that have been proven to manipulate, outright lie and steal to do whatever they want :dunno:
I'm just pointing out the obvious...it does no good to get worked up over what any state agency role was with respect to wolf re-introduction. The federal government had authority under ESA to re-introduce wolves. The President of the United States showed up to help release the darn wolves. I think its ridiculous some folks believe a low level bureaucrat like an IDFG director could possibly have stopped wolf reintroduction in Idaho. There is no believing in "facts and numbers" when talking wolves. Like it or not the federal government had the authority to re-introduce wolves to recover an endangered species...they did not need IDFG permission, they did not need to prove there would be no negative impacts to hunters, other wildlife, rural communities...whatever the concern. I understand people don't like that and many of those criticisms are often repeated as reasons for modifying ESA law; but its important to acknowledge reality when understanding where ones effort should be placed in fighting to ensure wildlife is managed in a way that protects the hunting heritage...which I would hope is a mutual concern of folks on this forum.
"I'm just pointing out the obvious...it does no good to get worked up over what any state agency role was with respect to wolf re-introduction."
In other wards, don't get worked up over the fraud and corruption of IDFG etc., it's ok if the state game agencies pull crooked deals because the feds would have forced their agenda anyway. :roll eyes:
It's just some of that wolf history that the pro-wolf people don't want remembered, nor do they want to recognize much of the same fraud that is happening in WA and OR with wolf introduction.
When the news breaks that WDFW released wolves in WA, will their excuse be the same? The USFWS was going to release wolves in WA anyway so we beat them to the punch? Or the wolves were going to migrate anyway, we just wanted recovery to move along a little sooner. Can't wait to hear why they lied to the people of WA.
Post by: bobcat on April 01, 2015, 06:52:21 AM
Post by: idahohuntr on April 01, 2015, 07:08:42 AM
The level of ignorance one must posses in order to make such a big deal out of a single letter signed in the early 90's by a state director...talk about grasping at straws.Tom Remington and George Dovel wouldn't know wildlife conservation if it walked up and spit in their face. I started to read some of the article and then realized it was just some re-tread garbage dug up from stale old meaningless arguments about what letter a former director signed back in the early 90's. I don't understand why these fiction writers can't come up with new stuff...when you are not bound by facts and accurate reporting it should be easy to produce new material. :dunno:
Would you know wildlife conservation if Tom Remington spit in your face?
I'm guessing Tom Remington has forgotten more about wildlife conservation in his older age than you know in your youthful new age ignorance...
There's more than just a letter but you don't care to read more or accept the re-introduction of wolves as being done with skewed facts and lies
Why would you believe the "facts and numbers" of agencies that have been proven to manipulate, outright lie and steal to do whatever they want :dunno:
I'm just pointing out the obvious...it does no good to get worked up over what any state agency role was with respect to wolf re-introduction. The federal government had authority under ESA to re-introduce wolves. The President of the United States showed up to help release the darn wolves. I think its ridiculous some folks believe a low level bureaucrat like an IDFG director could possibly have stopped wolf reintroduction in Idaho. There is no believing in "facts and numbers" when talking wolves. Like it or not the federal government had the authority to re-introduce wolves to recover an endangered species...they did not need IDFG permission, they did not need to prove there would be no negative impacts to hunters, other wildlife, rural communities...whatever the concern. I understand people don't like that and many of those criticisms are often repeated as reasons for modifying ESA law; but its important to acknowledge reality when understanding where ones effort should be placed in fighting to ensure wildlife is managed in a way that protects the hunting heritage...which I would hope is a mutual concern of folks on this forum.
"I'm just pointing out the obvious...it does no good to get worked up over what any state agency role was with respect to wolf re-introduction."
In other wards, don't get worked up over the fraud and corruption of IDFG etc., it's ok if the state game agencies pull crooked deals because the feds would have forced their agenda anyway. :roll eyes:
It's just some of that wolf history that the pro-wolf people don't want remembered, nor do they want to recognize much of the same fraud that is happening in WA and OR with wolf introduction.
When the news breaks that WDFW released wolves in WA, will their excuse be the same? The USFWS was going to release wolves in WA anyway so we beat them to the punch? Or the wolves were going to migrate anyway, we just wanted recovery to move along a little sooner. Can't wait to hear why they lied to the people of WA.
I guess that's what you are forced to do when you make repeated claims about WDFW releasing wolves but you can never provide anyone with any evidence of these secret wolf transplants. Sad.
Post by: wolfbait on April 02, 2015, 01:48:56 PM
The level of ignorance one must posses in order to make such a big deal out of a single letter signed in the early 90's by a state director...talk about grasping at straws.Tom Remington and George Dovel wouldn't know wildlife conservation if it walked up and spit in their face. I started to read some of the article and then realized it was just some re-tread garbage dug up from stale old meaningless arguments about what letter a former director signed back in the early 90's. I don't understand why these fiction writers can't come up with new stuff...when you are not bound by facts and accurate reporting it should be easy to produce new material. :dunno:
Would you know wildlife conservation if Tom Remington spit in your face?
I'm guessing Tom Remington has forgotten more about wildlife conservation in his older age than you know in your youthful new age ignorance...
There's more than just a letter but you don't care to read more or accept the re-introduction of wolves as being done with skewed facts and lies
Why would you believe the "facts and numbers" of agencies that have been proven to manipulate, outright lie and steal to do whatever they want :dunno:
I'm just pointing out the obvious...it does no good to get worked up over what any state agency role was with respect to wolf re-introduction. The federal government had authority under ESA to re-introduce wolves. The President of the United States showed up to help release the darn wolves. I think its ridiculous some folks believe a low level bureaucrat like an IDFG director could possibly have stopped wolf reintroduction in Idaho. There is no believing in "facts and numbers" when talking wolves. Like it or not the federal government had the authority to re-introduce wolves to recover an endangered species...they did not need IDFG permission, they did not need to prove there would be no negative impacts to hunters, other wildlife, rural communities...whatever the concern. I understand people don't like that and many of those criticisms are often repeated as reasons for modifying ESA law; but its important to acknowledge reality when understanding where ones effort should be placed in fighting to ensure wildlife is managed in a way that protects the hunting heritage...which I would hope is a mutual concern of folks on this forum.
"I'm just pointing out the obvious...it does no good to get worked up over what any state agency role was with respect to wolf re-introduction."
In other wards, don't get worked up over the fraud and corruption of IDFG etc., it's ok if the state game agencies pull crooked deals because the feds would have forced their agenda anyway. :roll eyes:
It's just some of that wolf history that the pro-wolf people don't want remembered, nor do they want to recognize much of the same fraud that is happening in WA and OR with wolf introduction.
When the news breaks that WDFW released wolves in WA, will their excuse be the same? The USFWS was going to release wolves in WA anyway so we beat them to the punch? Or the wolves were going to migrate anyway, we just wanted recovery to move along a little sooner. Can't wait to hear why they lied to the people of WA.
I guess that's what you are forced to do when you make repeated claims about WDFW releasing wolves but you can never provide anyone with any evidence of these secret wolf transplants. Sad.
Sounds like you haven't been around the wolf issue too long I-h. Below is some info. you should probably read if you plan on staying with the wolf topic. You will see simularities with WDFW and their wolf introduction into WA.
What They Didn’t Tell You About Wolf Recovery
On January 14, 2008 Idaho F&G Director Cal Groen authored a News Release titled, “Wolves Are Here to Stay.” He emphasized that wolves will be managed like deer and elk but with the following differences:
Allow Wilderness Packs to Increase
No F&G Plan to Reduce Wolf Population
Wolf Plan Ignores Idaho Wildlife Policy
Predicted Wolf Impact Based on False IDFG Data
“Nothing Wrong With Lying to the Public”
Oversight Committee Bias
F&G Illegally Agreed To Canadian Transplants
Idaho AG, Congress Ignore False EIS Info
Bangs Ignored ESA Subspecies Criteria
Existence of Many Wolves Ignored
Wolf Numbers Underestimated
“Wolf Advocates Give Low Estimates”
Low Estimates Hide Extent of Impact
F&G Ignores Legislative Wolf Plan
Excuses For Not Controlling Wolves
http://www.idahoforwildlife.com/Website%20articles/George%20Dovel/The_Outdoorsman%2026%20January%202008%20full%20report.pdf (http://www.idahoforwildlife.com/Website%20articles/George%20Dovel/The_Outdoorsman%2026%20January%202008%20full%20report.pdf)
Post by: mfswallace on April 02, 2015, 02:03:27 PM
Post by: mountainman on April 02, 2015, 04:48:32 PM
Idahohuntr is a new age biologist trained recently, enough said for the education system :bash::yeah:
Post by: idahohuntr on April 02, 2015, 05:41:27 PM
:stup:Idahohuntr is a new age biologist trained recently, enough said for the education system :bash::yeah:
Post by: idahohuntr on April 02, 2015, 05:44:01 PM
No thanks. I'm not really interested in reading fiction.
Below is some info. you should probably read if you plan on staying with the wolf topic.
Post by: wolfbait on April 02, 2015, 06:06:16 PM
No thanks. I'm not really interested in reading fiction.
Below is some info. you should probably read if you plan on staying with the wolf topic.
Yep, that's about what I figured you would say. People like you are the reason we had the wolf introduction, you ignore past history in support of the environmentalists fairy tales and their agendas.
Post by: JJB11B on April 02, 2015, 06:07:50 PM
Post by: jasnt on April 02, 2015, 07:20:37 PM
Personally I've seen a lot of corruption and lack of transparentcy in wdfw, idfg and f&g. This whole wolf introduction has been nothing but a disaster from day one! Call it conspericy if you want but there is deff more to this whole thing than just wanting wolves back in the USA. No state game agency has been 100% honest or transparent about wolf issues.
Post by: JJB11B on April 02, 2015, 07:37:30 PM
It's funny how Idaho hunter always claims that wolfbait is speeding lies and false information yet he never presents any evidence to support his claims. Only offers his opinion on its credibility and refuses to even read or except anything other than his opinions and what game departments claim.WDFW seems to just play follow the leader with ODFW
Personally I've seen a lot of corruption and lack of transparentcy in wdfw, idfg and f&g. This whole wolf introduction has been nothing but a disaster from day one! Call it conspericy if you want but there is deff more to this whole thing than just wanting wolves back in the USA. No state game agency has been 100% honest or transparent about wolf issues.
Post by: idahohuntr on April 02, 2015, 09:06:49 PM
I've never supported wolf re-introduction and I don't support environmentalist fairy tales. Your preferred method of matching the environmentalists lie for lie is what I oppose. I wish all the fringe on both sides of this issue...you and the rest of the zealot anti-wolfers, as well as the fringe tree huggers on the other side, would just stop with the ridiculous claims and exaggerations and campaigns of misinformation. Most reasonably informed individuals can see through the garbage and bs, but to the middle 80% of voters who don't invest a lot of time understanding the issue, its unfortunate they are bombarded with so many lies from both sides.No thanks. I'm not really interested in reading fiction.
Below is some info. you should probably read if you plan on staying with the wolf topic.
Yep, that's about what I figured you would say. People like you are the reason we had the wolf introduction, you ignore past history in support of the environmentalists fairy tales and their agendas.
It's funny how Idaho hunter always claims that wolfbait is speeding lies and false information yet he never presents any evidence to support his claims. Only offers his opinion on its credibility and refuses to even read or except anything other than his opinions and what game departments claim.jasnt- its impossible to prove a negative...like wolves were not transplanted by WDFW. This is why tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists love conjuring up crap like that. Prove to me that WDFW did not plant Elvis in the cascades. I know I saw them. My UPS guy's cousin saw Dave Ware load Elvis into a horsetrailer and drop him off. Prove me wrong. And don't just offer your opinion on the credibility of the information. And don't refuse to read the articles in the National Enquirer just because you think they might be exaggerating to make a $$. :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: jasnt on April 02, 2015, 09:42:13 PM
I realize it's hard to prove...true or false :dunno: also there are many more things on that list above posted by wolfbait that have been proven true. I'm curious what your views are for Idaho for wildlife?
Post by: mountainman on April 02, 2015, 11:01:21 PM
:stup: Yes they do! ^^^^:stup:Idahohuntr is a new age biologist trained recently, enough said for the education system :bash::yeah:
Post by: wolfbait on April 03, 2015, 09:04:58 AM
I've never supported wolf re-introduction and I don't support environmentalist fairy tales. Your preferred method of matching the environmentalists lie for lie is what I oppose. I wish all the fringe on both sides of this issue...you and the rest of the zealot anti-wolfers, as well as the fringe tree huggers on the other side, would just stop with the ridiculous claims and exaggerations and campaigns of misinformation. Most reasonably informed individuals can see through the garbage and bs, but to the middle 80% of voters who don't invest a lot of time understanding the issue, its unfortunate they are bombarded with so many lies from both sides.No thanks. I'm not really interested in reading fiction.
Below is some info. you should probably read if you plan on staying with the wolf topic.
Yep, that's about what I figured you would say. People like you are the reason we had the wolf introduction, you ignore past history in support of the environmentalists fairy tales and their agendas.It's funny how Idaho hunter always claims that wolfbait is speeding lies and false information yet he never presents any evidence to support his claims. Only offers his opinion on its credibility and refuses to even read or except anything other than his opinions and what game departments claim.jasnt- its impossible to prove a negative...like wolves were not transplanted by WDFW. This is why tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists love conjuring up crap like that. Prove to me that WDFW did not plant Elvis in the cascades. I know I saw them. My UPS guy's cousin saw Dave Ware load Elvis into a horsetrailer and drop him off. Prove me wrong. And don't just offer your opinion on the credibility of the information. And don't refuse to read the articles in the National Enquirer just because you think they might be exaggerating to make a $$. :chuckle: :chuckle:
"I wish all the fringe on both sides of this issue...you and the rest of the zealot anti-wolfers"
This is just more of your usual jibberish you resort to when things aren't going your way. Generally you try to play both sides of the wolf issue pushing the pro-wolf side when you think you have an audience. You like to compare wolf history with the lies of the environmentalists, USFWS etc. but the facts are not on your side.
People like Tom Remington, George Dovel, and Dr. Charles Kay who don't count on wolves for employment, have probably forgot more about wolves then you will ever know, mainly because you seem to lack the self honesty in searching out the truth.
Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming's wolf history is important to other states that have and are having wolves pushed on them by the USFWS and state game agencies. Pretending that each state needs new studies, or the corruption that happened in the wolf introduction isn't still happening in WA and OR doesn't help the progress towards wolf management/control.
Some people learn from their mistakes, while others "USFWS, WDFW" etc. just keep peeing on the electric fence.