Post by: bobcat on April 01, 2015, 10:40:25 AM
The only thing that's really uncertain at this point, in my opinion, is the deer and elk baiting issue. I'd like to be present to hear that discussion. That particular issue is scheduled for 3:55 PM on Thursday.
Most of the other hunting issues that I'm interested in are also Thursday afternoon- small game, deer and elk seasons, moose, sheep, & mountain goat, GMU boundaries, etc. so I think I will try to be there from 12:30 to the end of the meeting at 4:55.
Friday morning would also be interesting but I don't think I'll be able to make it that day. I'll be missing "Equipment requirements" which will be the discussion regarding crossbows and mechanical broadheads. Then after that the black bear and cougar topics are scheduled. If anyone can attend the meeting, you would only need to be there from 8:00 to 9:20 to catch all the hunting related issues.
The agenda is here:
http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/meetings/2015/04/agenda_apr0915.html (http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/meetings/2015/04/agenda_apr0915.html)
Location of the meeting:
Capital Events Center
6005 Tyee Drive SW Tumwater WA 98512 - Mason/Lewis Rooms
Directions: www.capitaleventcenter.org/domain/97 (http://www.capitaleventcenter.org/domain/97)
Post by: Special T on April 01, 2015, 11:01:09 AM
Post by: Rainier10 on April 01, 2015, 11:41:45 AM
My guess is "no change" in baiting. At the hunter education in service training this weekend they went over comments received on the issues at hand for the upcoming season and the process that they used to get input. 1400 comments were made about the baiting rules, the next highest comment item only had like 500 as I recall. I don't think there was a way for them to tell if someone made multiple comments on baiting but was told that the majority of the comments were in favor of no change.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on April 01, 2015, 11:50:12 AM
Post by: Ridgerunner on April 01, 2015, 11:55:40 AM
Post by: idahohuntr on April 09, 2015, 12:20:11 PM
Post by: Ridgerunner on April 09, 2015, 12:21:44 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 09, 2015, 12:22:50 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on April 09, 2015, 12:25:02 PM
I'm not there yet but I will be in about 20 minutes.Awesome!
Post by: bobcat on April 09, 2015, 12:25:16 PM
Post by: Ridgerunner on April 09, 2015, 01:28:57 PM
Post by: dreamingbig on April 09, 2015, 01:47:48 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: bobcat on April 09, 2015, 03:59:40 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 09, 2015, 04:01:23 PM
Post by: pd on April 09, 2015, 04:02:20 PM
Looks like the 4 pt minimum will be decided tomorrow. The vote was 4 to 4.
Very interesting! Disagreements on the Commission? This is actually a really good thing, we don't want rubber stamps in either direction. Thanks for the reporting.
Post by: pd on April 09, 2015, 04:04:07 PM
They're also moving the baiting discussion to tomorrow when there will be 9 commissioners. There are only 8 today.
Thrilla in Manila?? Any knock-downs?
Post by: X-Force on April 09, 2015, 04:05:27 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 09, 2015, 04:13:07 PM
Whats the word on moving Margret into general season and losing the monument area to Loowit?
All that passed.
Post by: bobcat on April 09, 2015, 04:23:41 PM
Post by: X-Force on April 09, 2015, 04:28:30 PM
Whats the word on moving Margret into general season and losing the monument area to Loowit?
All that passed.
Figured it would... To bad for sportsman. Next step NP
Post by: Woodchuck on April 09, 2015, 04:46:43 PM
Crossbows and mechanical broadheads just became legal.For general archery?
Post by: bobcat on April 09, 2015, 04:48:32 PM
Crossbows and mechanical broadheads just became legal.For general archery?
No, modern for crossbows.
Post by: X-Force on April 09, 2015, 05:01:22 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 09, 2015, 05:09:06 PM
Were the Deer and Elk seasons approved?
The elk seasons were. But the deer is put off until tomorrow due to the tie vote, which is because the 4 point minimum for GMU's 117 & 121 was included in that.
There's no doubt everything they had proposed in regards to the general and special permit deer seasons will be approved.
It's just the 4 point rule that could go either way.
I believe commissioner Jay Kehne of Omak will be the one to break the tie vote tomorrow morning. Does anyone have an opinion on how he might vote?
Post by: grundy53 on April 09, 2015, 05:15:50 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 09, 2015, 05:18:06 PM
Curious how the vote will turn out on the baiting issue.
That one's even more complicated because there are 4 options instead of just 2.
Post by: buckfvr on April 09, 2015, 05:36:17 PM
Were the Deer and Elk seasons approved?
The elk seasons were. But the deer is put off until tomorrow due to the tie vote, which is because the 4 point minimum for GMU's 117 & 121 was included in that.
There's no doubt everything they had proposed in regards to the general and special permit deer seasons will be approved.
It's just the 4 point rule that could go either way.
I believe commissioner Jay Kehne of Omak will be the one to break the tie vote tomorrow morning. Does anyone have an opinion on how he might vote?
Well its a hard call but Id like to think anyone who hails from conservation northwest would be dead set AGAINST letting people kill baby deer ie 18 month old and younger bucks with their milk teeth. I mean c'mon guys.....do you really want to hunt any buck where the majority of whitetails killed are nothing more than 18 month old four points ???? These young 4Xs are still with the does.......sure as heck aint hunting.
Post by: bobcat on April 09, 2015, 05:39:17 PM
Were the Deer and Elk seasons approved?
The elk seasons were. But the deer is put off until tomorrow due to the tie vote, which is because the 4 point minimum for GMU's 117 & 121 was included in that.
There's no doubt everything they had proposed in regards to the general and special permit deer seasons will be approved.
It's just the 4 point rule that could go either way.
I believe commissioner Jay Kehne of Omak will be the one to break the tie vote tomorrow morning. Does anyone have an opinion on how he might vote?
Well its a hard call but Id like to think anyone who hails from conservation northwest would be dead set AGAINST letting people kill baby deer ie 18 month old and younger bucks with their milk teeth. I mean c'mon guys.....do you really want to hunt any buck where the majority of whitetails killed are nothing more than 18 month old four points ???? These young 4Xs are still with the does.......sure as heck aint hunting.
I had that thought as well, but also thought he might be against "trophy hunting," which means he would vote for going back to "any buck."
Post by: buckfvr on April 09, 2015, 05:42:53 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 09, 2015, 05:47:51 PM
Post by: buckfvr on April 09, 2015, 05:51:43 PM
Post by: buckfvr on April 09, 2015, 05:55:24 PM
Post by: Bango skank on April 09, 2015, 05:58:51 PM
I live right smack in the middle of it in 121 and you cant find a single person here who doesnt notice the improvement, and wouldnt like to see it continue.
:yeah:
I have let multiple legal bucks go every year the apr has been in place. If you cant find something bigger than a forkhorn in these units, YOU are doing something wrong. It is not the APRs fault. Buying a tag doesnt make you entitled to notch it. Only 2 units are 4x min. If you dont like it go to a bordering unit.
Post by: bobcat on April 09, 2015, 05:59:52 PM
Therefore if it goes back to any buck, more people will hunt those two units. That's your additional "hunter opportunity."
Post by: buckfvr on April 09, 2015, 06:03:30 PM
Well, the way I understood it was that the number of hunters in those two units decreased by quite a bit when it went to the 4 point minimum. Those displaced hunters had to go to other units, or simply not hunt deer at all.
Therefore if it goes back to any buck, more people will hunt those two units. That's your additional "hunter opportunity."
And why would they be displaced.....only by their own choice. They can still hunt here and be successful here , lets not forget success is relative to effort anywhere you hunt for anything you hunt. You certain ly know that bc........
Post by: buckfvr on April 09, 2015, 06:06:09 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 09, 2015, 06:06:38 PM
Post by: Jarhead Chase on April 09, 2015, 06:07:38 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 09, 2015, 06:09:28 PM
I have more of an idea the lack of the high numbers of hunters here has led to a loss of revenue by way of wdfw citations, and they'd like it back. Bank on that one.
I'd have to disagree 100% on that.
They did mention how some business owners have complained about a drop in customers since the restriction was put in place
Post by: buckfvr on April 09, 2015, 06:14:56 PM
Post by: Jarhead Chase on April 09, 2015, 06:16:37 PM
Post by: buckfvr on April 09, 2015, 06:17:24 PM
Post by: buckfvr on April 09, 2015, 06:19:04 PM
I am trying! Believe me. It gets frustrating. That probably came out more than I meant for it to.
We've all been there......keep at it and always connect the dots/put the puzzle pieces together and you will begin to see the whole what where and why of it and it will become great fun.
Post by: Jarhead Chase on April 09, 2015, 06:19:22 PM
Post by: buckfvr on April 09, 2015, 06:20:36 PM
Post by: Jarhead Chase on April 09, 2015, 06:21:00 PM
Post by: buckfvr on April 09, 2015, 06:23:34 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 09, 2015, 06:23:44 PM
bobcat.......if you ask the business owners that we have, they all agree, the overall economy is the reason for the decline in this area, not the silly 4pt restriction. Its a one more phony excuse wdfw uses. Seriously.
Well either way, I have confidence that the WDFW has only good intentions and only want to do what is best for hunters, and for the whitetail deer population. I don't believe for a second that there are any ulterior motives. But again, it won't be decided by them, but by the Fish and Wildlife Commission.
Post by: buckfvr on April 09, 2015, 06:28:16 PM
Post by: Jarhead Chase on April 09, 2015, 06:29:27 PM
The best time to scout is before green up.....look for last falls rubs and scrapes, then focus on the topography above those areas..........that'll be #2
Great advice. I'll definitely throw that in the brain pan for later. I'm hoping to look at some new spots early this summer while I have some free time. :tup:
Post by: bobcat on April 09, 2015, 06:31:00 PM
Well bobcat, If I was to tell you a few things that have gone on over here in the last week regarding this, it would burst your confidence bubble guaranteed..................but what purpose would that serve ?
Send me a PM if you get a chance.
Post by: mfswallace on April 09, 2015, 10:01:51 PM
Post by: X-Force on April 09, 2015, 10:08:09 PM
I am interested to see what happens tomorrow with "baiting"
Post by: MtnMuley on April 09, 2015, 10:12:59 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 09, 2015, 10:17:18 PM
buckfvr: If you haven't figured out bobcat by now, I feel bad for you. He summed it up perfect when he replied he doesn't care either way because he doesn't hunt that unit. It's no different when he throws his comments out there on other issues. :twocents:
It's not that I don't care, but it doesn't really affect me either way, at least not this year. Someday I'd like to do some whitetail hunting over there. But right now I don't see myself driving 7 hours for a deer. Not when I'm going 1000 miles to Wyoming and with any luck will shoot 4 deer and 4 antelope. But all that's irrelevant. What's it matter what I think? I really don't know what would be better- to retain the 4 point minimum or go back to the way it was. Normally I listen to the people who are educated in wildlife management and know what they're talking about. Which in this case is the WDFW.
What's your opinion on this issue, MtnMuley?
Post by: idahohuntr on April 09, 2015, 10:21:09 PM
I've heard that Mr. Kehne wants to table the baiting issue and come up with better alternatives...if thats true I'm glad he will be there for the baiting vote. Anybody know what happens if commissioners split among 3 or more of the alternatives? Is it the one with the most votes? Or do they need a majority (5 votes for at least 1 alternative) to enact a change?
Post by: bobcat on April 09, 2015, 10:24:38 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on April 09, 2015, 10:34:50 PM
buckfvr: If you haven't figured out bobcat by now, I feel bad for you. He summed it up perfect when he replied he doesn't care either way because he doesn't hunt that unit. It's no different when he throws his comments out there on other issues. :twocents:
It's not that I don't care, but it doesn't really affect me either way, at least not this year. Someday I'd like to do some whitetail hunting over there. But right now I don't see myself driving 7 hours for a deer. Not when I'm going 1000 miles to Wyoming and with any luck will shoot 4 deer and 4 antelope. But all that's irrelevant. What's it matter what I think? I really don't know what would be better- to retain the 4 point minimum or go back to the way it was. Normally I listen to the people who are educated in wildlife management and know what they're talking about. Which in this case is the WDFW.
What's your opinion on this issue, MtnMuley?
My opinion on this issue is that I certainly don't trust WDFW one bit when making the right choice. Especially with some of the so called experts they have in the area on the issue. Does the name Scott Fitkin ring a bell? He solely decides certain seasons because he is the "knowledge paid resource" in the area. Does that make him right? I personally rely on people like buckfvr who live in the particular area and know the situations well. Although I hate whitetail, I spend a little time in that GMU and have noticed a much better whitey herd since the restriction has been in effect. Many others I know have been successful recently there and are very happy with the restriction. Again, they get off the roads and actually hunt.
Post by: bobcat on April 09, 2015, 10:45:32 PM
buckfvr: If you haven't figured out bobcat by now, I feel bad for you. He summed it up perfect when he replied he doesn't care either way because he doesn't hunt that unit. It's no different when he throws his comments out there on other issues. :twocents:
It's not that I don't care, but it doesn't really affect me either way, at least not this year. Someday I'd like to do some whitetail hunting over there. But right now I don't see myself driving 7 hours for a deer. Not when I'm going 1000 miles to Wyoming and with any luck will shoot 4 deer and 4 antelope. But all that's irrelevant. What's it matter what I think? I really don't know what would be better- to retain the 4 point minimum or go back to the way it was. Normally I listen to the people who are educated in wildlife management and know what they're talking about. Which in this case is the WDFW.
What's your opinion on this issue, MtnMuley?
My opinion on this issue is that I certainly don't trust WDFW one bit when making the right choice. Especially with some of the so called experts they have in the area on the issue. Does the name Scott Fitkin ring a bell? He solely decides certain seasons because he is the "knowledge paid resource" in the area. Does that make him right? I personally rely on people like buckfvr who live in the particular area and know the situations well. Although I hate whitetail, I spend a little time in that GMU and have noticed a much better whitey herd since the restriction has been in effect. Many others I know have been successful recently there and are very happy with the restriction. Again, they get off the roads and actually hunt.
Well that seems reasonable, but so did what I heard today from the WDFW. They are saying the deer numbers are up due to milder winters. Like I said before, the adjacent units that don't have the 4 point restriction are showing the exact same improvements.
Now don't get mad at me for saying that. I'm posting what I heard at the meeting and you seem to have a problem with that. This thread was meant to inform people of what occurred at the meeting today. The 4 point issue is not why I attended the meeting, it was just one of the topics and I was asked what happened with that. If you don't like me posting about it, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe just don't read my posts.
Post by: idahohuntr on April 09, 2015, 10:50:34 PM
I'm with bobcat, I sit on GMAC and I've heard many sides and briefings on this issue...I don't really care what they do. I am inclined to support whatever the folks that live in those GMU's prefer if there is strong consensus. I don't think WDFW staff really have big concerns with which way this one goes...maybe they are slightly in favor of going back to any buck?
Most of us appreciate your posting on this meeting bobcat :tup:
Post by: X-Force on April 09, 2015, 10:50:50 PM
Why should hunters band together, improve harvest opertunies, improve access, etc when its so easy to stand on a soap box judge the rule makers and everyone else?
Post by: gilroym on April 10, 2015, 05:34:02 AM
Now don't get mad at me for saying that. I'm posting what I heard at the meeting and you seem to have a problem with that. This thread was meant to inform people of what occurred at the meeting today. The 4 point issue is not why I attended the meeting, it was just one of the topics and I was asked what happened with that. If you don't like me posting about it, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe just don't read my posts.
Thanks Bobcat for posting what happened I'm looking forward to what happens with baiting. Everyone else needs to lighten up a little and realize your posting what was said not your opinion.
Post by: krout81 on April 10, 2015, 07:00:35 AM
Post by: mburrows on April 10, 2015, 07:15:32 AM
Post by: bobcat on April 10, 2015, 08:31:16 AM
Vote was 5-4.
Post by: skeeter 20i on April 10, 2015, 08:42:46 AM
Post by: bobcat on April 10, 2015, 08:57:10 AM
Post by: lokidog on April 10, 2015, 08:58:51 AM
Baiting will be status quo.
:tup:
Post by: MtnMuley on April 10, 2015, 09:02:17 AM
Its funny to me that only people who hunt like mtnmuley or buckfvr are actual hunters.
Why should hunters band together, improve harvest opertunies, improve access, etc when its so easy to stand on a soap box judge the rule makers and everyone else?
Really? Apparently you are too narrow minded to see what's going on. The antler restriction has benefited the herd, so why change it?
Post by: baldopepper on April 10, 2015, 09:08:00 AM
Post by: jackelope on April 10, 2015, 09:19:34 AM
Baiting will be status quo.
Good news!!
Post by: BULLBLASTER on April 10, 2015, 09:19:50 AM
glad to hear they didnt knee jerk the baiting issue.
4 point min was tough for me. While i like hunting for big deer i realize others dont care. If the herd supports it i figure why not let it be any buck. There is so much escapement area that the big ones are still there. Should he a good year for buck harvest in 117,121.
Post by: Ridgerunner on April 10, 2015, 09:25:30 AM
Post by: idahohuntr on April 10, 2015, 09:25:49 AM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on April 10, 2015, 09:28:46 AM
Awesome news on baiting issue! Was there a vote or did they just take no action?:yeah: ?
Post by: bobcat on April 10, 2015, 09:31:56 AM
Post by: idahohuntr on April 10, 2015, 09:38:41 AM
Post by: willapawapiti on April 10, 2015, 09:52:15 AM
Post by: bobcat on April 10, 2015, 09:55:29 AM
What alternative did the 4 vote for?
They didn't. It was 5 for status quo and that was the end of it.
Post by: X-Force on April 10, 2015, 10:02:08 AM
Its funny to me that only people who hunt like mtnmuley or buckfvr are actual hunters.
Why should hunters band together, improve harvest opertunies, improve access, etc when its so easy to stand on a soap box judge the rule makers and everyone else?
Really? Apparently you are too narrow minded to see what's going on. The antler restriction has benefited the herd, so why change it?
I see whats going on. The antler restriction was meant to provide a boost in whitetail numbers, which it did, and now that boost has run its course so WDFW is removing the restriction.
Post by: X-Force on April 10, 2015, 10:03:13 AM
Post by: idahohuntr on April 10, 2015, 10:26:04 AM
Thanks Bobcat for keeping us all informed! :tup::yeah: Awful nice of you to take time out of your day to inform all of us.
Post by: buckfvr on April 10, 2015, 10:29:53 AM
No one is looking ahead at what a major herd changing event will mean to this area. You think 4pt was bad..................
We have extreme predator problems, and now everyone who comes here gets to kill a baby deer.......wonderful. There is no surplus here.....if anything, we are nearing balance. If you believe wdfw, you will believe anything.
Post by: skidynastar33 on April 10, 2015, 10:34:27 AM
Post by: Jarhead Chase on April 10, 2015, 10:37:15 AM
Post by: mfswallace on April 10, 2015, 10:46:10 AM
We still have considerably less deer than we had prior to the back to back bad winters of 2007 and 08.........We will always remain 1 bad winter away from square one.
No one is looking ahead at what a major herd changing event will mean to this area. You think 4pt was bad..................
We have extreme predator problems, and now everyone who comes here gets to kill a baby deer.......wonderful. There is no surplus here.....if anything, we are nearing balance. If you believe wdfw, you will believe anything.
The State has an extreme predator problem!!!! And it's not only Bears, Cats or Wolves but unregulated hunting and poaching by humans as well :twocents:
Post by: bobcat on April 10, 2015, 10:50:19 AM
What happened with the mule deer seasons? 2 extra days or not?
Yes. That wasn't really up for debate.
Post by: jackelope on April 10, 2015, 10:53:19 AM
We still have considerably less deer than we had prior to the back to back bad winters of 2007 and 08.........We will always remain 1 bad winter away from square one.
No one is looking ahead at what a major herd changing event will mean to this area. You think 4pt was bad..................
We have extreme predator problems, and now everyone who comes here gets to kill a baby deer.......wonderful. There is no surplus here.....if anything, we are nearing balance. If you believe wdfw, you will believe anything.
How's about you start another thread. This thread is for updates coming from the meeting, not debate. I'm not against having the debate, it's just making this thread bounce all over the place!!
:jacked:
Post by: bearpaw on April 10, 2015, 11:24:24 AM
It was a vote, 5 for the status quo and 4 against. They will be looking at the baiting issue again, they just decided they're not quite ready yet. They talked about researching the baiting laws in other western states to determine what might work and what might not work. It does sound like the main concern is outfitters who put out extremely large amounts of bait. One commissioner commented that perhaps they could look into regulating outfitters in some way.
Thanks for attending the meeting and reporting back to everyone. Much appreciated! :tup:
Post by: justyhntr on April 10, 2015, 12:10:33 PM
Post by: grundy53 on April 10, 2015, 12:11:19 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on April 10, 2015, 12:48:46 PM
Was this your first commission meeting and what did you think of the process?
I have been to a couple and always find them interesting and entertaining.
Post by: bearpaw on April 14, 2015, 10:56:04 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on April 14, 2015, 11:15:35 PM
As a whole I like the direction WDFW and the Commission went with most issues this year. :tup:I agree. I was particularly encouraged with the way they handled the baiting issue...they let public comment and common sense at least drive them to the point they could see they did not have the right solution to make a change...yet. Which was a big step from where things started, when many considered it a foregone conclusion baiting would be banned.
Post by: Rainier10 on April 15, 2015, 08:46:42 AM
As a whole I like the direction WDFW and the Commission went with most issues this year. :tup::yeah:
In my dealing with the people at WDFW I really think they want to do the right thing, they just need good information and input to make good decisions. As long as they have good information I am okay with what they decide even if I don't agree with the decisions 100% of the time.