Post by: hunterrcc on April 09, 2015, 08:22:15 AM
Another bull lost to Indians in the white mans off season! And we wonder why our elk areas only have a limited tag quota it's because the Indians go into it and slaughter how ever many Bulls they want to forcing us to have low numbers of tags. They need oversight from a third party to issue permits for special draw areas just like we have so we can limit the number of our big Bulls dying.
Post by: lewy on April 09, 2015, 08:23:40 AM
Post by: benhuntin on April 09, 2015, 08:32:33 AM
Post by: bobcat on April 09, 2015, 08:35:59 AM
Post by: Tbar on April 09, 2015, 08:37:22 AM
Post by: WAPatriot on April 09, 2015, 08:38:48 AM
Post by: runamuk on April 09, 2015, 08:41:06 AM
Answer: Indians!
Another bull lost to Indians in the white mans off season! And we wonder why our elk areas only have a limited tag quota it's because the Indians go into it and slaughter how ever many Bulls they want to forcing us to have low numbers of tags. They need oversight from a third party to issue permits for special draw areas just like we have so we can limit the number of our big Bulls dying.
FYI the one of the taxi doing all the mounts for the yakima kills is Paul klostner(sp.?) i will be sure to not support that guy considering his helping them destroy our big Bulls!
When was this bull supposedly harvested? And where?
Post by: Tbar on April 09, 2015, 08:41:20 AM
Boldt decision is so corrupt it's not even funny. Guys wife was an Indian and he had Alzheimer's. In all societies throughout the history of mankind other than the current society conquered people become enslaved. In our society they get all kinds of special privilege and monopolies go figure.Boldt decision was fishing related, it didn't address hunting.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 09, 2015, 08:50:23 AM
Post by: WAPatriot on April 09, 2015, 08:50:49 AM
Post by: coachcw on April 09, 2015, 08:56:21 AM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on April 09, 2015, 08:56:50 AM
2014 bull.........
That's what I want with my 12 points... :tup:
Post by: syoungs on April 09, 2015, 08:58:16 AM
2014 bull.........
That's what I want with my 12 points... :tup:
You need more respect for animals. (Total sarcasm)
Post by: Crunchy on April 09, 2015, 09:00:39 AM
Post by: Tbar on April 09, 2015, 09:08:07 AM
Happens every year and no one with power touches it. At some point Marshall law will come into play.Martial law? What call in the national guard to stop tribal hunting? Sounds a little extreme but never say never I guess.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on April 09, 2015, 09:28:30 AM
It wont change because politicians aren't typically outdoorsmen. So we have no representation in office, pretty much at any level.
Joel Kretz is our man in Olympia.....local guy, used to run hounds, hunter etc.
Look up Joel Kretz on Facebook :tup:
Post by: baldopepper on April 09, 2015, 09:38:58 AM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on April 09, 2015, 10:09:46 AM
Post by: Tbar on April 09, 2015, 10:12:58 AM
Post by: Band on April 09, 2015, 10:27:30 AM
I think what Coach means is that eventually we sportsmen will take the law into our own hands and have ugly confrontations with the slobs who kill everything they see. The law may look the other way when tribal members do this, but hunters get beyond irritated as I'm sure you know. It has gotten ugly with netting and wanton wastage on the rivers from time to time (and ugly at tribal fireworks stands selling illegal products) and it will happen in the deer & elk woods eventually as well.Happens every year and no one with power touches it. At some point Marshall law will come into play.Martial law? What call in the national guard to stop tribal hunting? Sounds a little extreme but never say never I guess.
Post by: baker5150 on April 09, 2015, 10:35:49 AM
Don't do business with them. Simple really. Let everyone you know who is willing. Don't buy or sell.
This is exactly what our gov't does when they want another country to conform.
Post by: cbond3318 on April 09, 2015, 10:52:48 AM
Post by: HUNT-HARD on April 09, 2015, 11:10:11 AM
Post by: baker5150 on April 09, 2015, 11:16:53 AM
This pissing and moaning is all the same. For once I would like to see an equally passionate rant about a cow elk being harvested or there goes another spike to the Indians. The window shopper reader of this kind of crap is going "meh, this guys mad cause the Indians get to shoot elk with bigger antlers" it is a wasted opportunity to make a valid point. :twocents:
There have been a few guys complaining about cows being killed. Even a few pics of a fetus in the gut pile.
Maybe do a quick forum search and you'll see that what your asking has taken place.
And you'll notice the topic is about Big Elk being gone, not cow elk.
Post by: Miles on April 09, 2015, 11:24:10 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 09, 2015, 11:35:44 AM
Why throw the taxidermist under the bus :dunno: I'm sure he is just making a honest living.Because taxidermists and antler buyers who gobble these racks up for their gain are as much to blame for this as the tribal guys pulling the trigger. If these business owners stopped buying the antlers then good odds these guys wouldn't be out killing so much. Same with the jerky selling, or fish selling. Eliminate the market for these items and a big chunk of this would go away. Few guys in my neck of the woods that I will never take work to for that reason alone! Its an instant deal breaker for me.
Post by: runamuk on April 09, 2015, 11:36:06 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 09, 2015, 11:39:49 AM
I am still wondering what month and gmu...Pretty close to you 8)
Post by: coachcw on April 09, 2015, 11:45:52 AM
Post by: Miles on April 09, 2015, 11:51:40 AM
Post by: coachcw on April 09, 2015, 12:06:28 PM
Wait a minute... if all the big elk are gone then how do the natives keep shooting them year after year?there not all gone but they hunt them in there winter mode ... easy pickings kinda like netting salmon :chuckle:
Post by: Spawnstar on April 09, 2015, 12:50:16 PM
Post by: Band on April 09, 2015, 12:54:07 PM
I'm a 1/4 Indian and can register but I don't cause these native Americans are destroying so much of our habitat.Very respectable attitude. :tup:
There are too many examples of people who have a sliver of native blood in them and use it to their advantage to rape the resource along with their brethren. :P
Post by: cbond3318 on April 09, 2015, 12:55:32 PM
This pissing and moaning is all the same. For once I would like to see an equally passionate rant about a cow elk being harvested or there goes another spike to the Indians. The window shopper reader of this kind of crap is going "meh, this guys mad cause the Indians get to shoot elk with bigger antlers" it is a wasted opportunity to make a valid point. :twocents:
There have been a few guys complaining about cows being killed. Even a few pics of a fetus in the gut pile.
Maybe do a quick forum search and you'll see that what your asking has taken place.
And you'll notice the topic is about Big Elk being gone, not cow elk.
I am aware of those few threads. Your last sentence is my point, Big Elk ie: large antlered, trophy or hawg daddy. Not a valid reason to be angry it got killed. Quantity, not purported quality is a much better leg to stand on IMHO. Antler hype in any form gets old I guess.
It is apparent via a search of the forum that the sting is far worse when it involves natives killing a "trophy" elk.
Post by: bobcat on April 09, 2015, 01:03:24 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on April 09, 2015, 01:10:08 PM
Why throw the taxidermist under the bus :dunno: I'm sure he is just making a honest living.Because taxidermists and antler buyers who gobble these racks up for their gain are as much to blame for this as the tribal guys pulling the trigger.
I agree. Boycott this taxidermist if this bothers you. Write him a polite email and explain why. If you don't do anything, don't complain :twocents:
Post by: buglebrush on April 09, 2015, 01:16:52 PM
This is my solution to the problem, if your a Native American then you get to hunt your native land with only your bow or Speer that you made with natural resources. And you can go fishing all year round and keep all the fish you want but you get a dip net and a conoe. I'm a 1/4 Indian and can register but I don't cause these native Americans are destroying so much of our habitat. They are no better than wolves!!!
:yeah:
Post by: buglebrush on April 09, 2015, 01:29:24 PM
This pissing and moaning is all the same. For once I would like to see an equally passionate rant about a cow elk being harvested or there goes another spike to the Indians. The window shopper reader of this kind of crap is going "meh, this guys mad cause the Indians get to shoot elk with bigger antlers" it is a wasted opportunity to make a valid point. :twocents:
There have been a few guys complaining about cows being killed. Even a few pics of a fetus in the gut pile.
Maybe do a quick forum search and you'll see that what your asking has taken place.
And you'll notice the topic is about Big Elk being gone, not cow elk.
I am aware of those few threads. Your last sentence is my point, Big Elk ie: large antlered, trophy or hawg daddy. Not a valid reason to be angry it got killed. Quantity, not purported quality is a much better leg to stand on IMHO. Antler hype in any form gets old I guess.
It is apparent via a search of the forum that the sting is far worse when it involves natives killing a "trophy" elk.
Of course the sting is far worse! I have less of a problem with them harvesting a cow, and using all the meat. Most Trophy bulls taken by tribal members that I know the details of they harvest little to no meat! It is the very fact that they are chasing trophies not simply meat for the table that makes it extra outrageous!
Post by: Tbar on April 09, 2015, 01:58:48 PM
What I see in this thread is an Indian (I'm assuming) in a picture with a bull and an opportunity to start another bashing thread. Mission accomplished. I would and will contact the tribal government of Yakama and let express my thoughts and feelings that they could be more active on the management side of hunting. I don't know or think it'll change but at least I can say I tried.
Post by: cbond3318 on April 09, 2015, 02:11:59 PM
This pissing and moaning is all the same. For once I would like to see an equally passionate rant about a cow elk being harvested or there goes another spike to the Indians. The window shopper reader of this kind of crap is going "meh, this guys mad cause the Indians get to shoot elk with bigger antlers" it is a wasted opportunity to make a valid point. :twocents:
There have been a few guys complaining about cows being killed. Even a few pics of a fetus in the gut pile.
Maybe do a quick forum search and you'll see that what your asking has taken place.
And you'll notice the topic is about Big Elk being gone, not cow elk.
I am aware of those few threads. Your last sentence is my point, Big Elk ie: large antlered, trophy or hawg daddy. Not a valid reason to be angry it got killed. Quantity, not purported quality is a much better leg to stand on IMHO. Antler hype in any form gets old I guess.
It is apparent via a search of the forum that the sting is far worse when it involves natives killing a "trophy" elk.
Of course the sting is far worse! I have less of a problem with them harvesting a cow, and using all the meat. Most Trophy bulls taken by tribal members that I know the details of they harvest little to no meat! It is the very fact that they are chasing trophies not simply meat for the table that makes it extra outrageous!
:tup:
Post by: bigbeamhunter on April 09, 2015, 02:27:14 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on April 09, 2015, 02:49:17 PM
Post by: Jonathan_S on April 09, 2015, 02:57:13 PM
I know you've been out of the elk hunting game for 26 years but you don't live under a rock.
Post by: runamuk on April 09, 2015, 02:59:13 PM
Funny that the only whinning I read about, is about big bulls that the tribes kill. I don't read about the wolves, big deer, maybe a goat or a big horn they kill. Why is that ?cuz he tooked my trophy.... kicks rocks and stomps off
I can hunt with my native friends :dunno: as long as we are both following our own regulations and have our tags and stuff there is no issue.
Post by: cbond3318 on April 09, 2015, 03:00:29 PM
Trophy bull elk are a big deal, because they're the breeders, and we are strictly limited on the number we can take. Also, the fact that most of them are killed only so they can sell the heads. Isn't the Indians excuse that they hunt because it's their tradition? Was it tradition to sell elk heads for thousands of dollars and let the meat go to waste?
How many permit hunters #1 priority is to hang a head and horns on their wall? Actually how many general season hunters horn hunt first?
Post by: Jonathan_S on April 09, 2015, 03:02:36 PM
Trophy bull elk are a big deal, because they're the breeders, and we are strictly limited on the number we can take. Also, the fact that most of them are killed only so they can sell the heads. Isn't the Indians excuse that they hunt because it's their tradition? Was it tradition to sell elk heads for thousands of dollars and let the meat go to waste?
How many permit hunters #1 priority is to hang a head and horns on their wall? Actually how many general season hunters horn hunt first?
What does that even have to do with what bobcat was saying?
Post by: cbond3318 on April 09, 2015, 03:08:21 PM
Trophy bull elk are a big deal, because they're the breeders, and we are strictly limited on the number we can take. Also, the fact that most of them are killed only so they can sell the heads. Isn't the Indians excuse that they hunt because it's their tradition? Was it tradition to sell elk heads for thousands of dollars and let the meat go to waste?
How many permit hunters #1 priority is to hang a head and horns on their wall? Actually how many general season hunters horn hunt first?
What does that even have to do with what bobcat was saying?
I would assume the statement that they are killed so the heads can be sold references a large antler set :dunno: Which to me is no different than being killed so that large antler set can hang on a wall.
My original point is that it appears the majority of the gripes regarding native kills is the quality of the animal killed. Which in my opinion, doesn't hold water as a statement to whatever group out there this would need to draw the attention of to facilitate a change...
Post by: Jonathan_S on April 09, 2015, 03:16:56 PM
Trophy bull elk are a big deal, because they're the breeders, and we are strictly limited on the number we can take. Also, the fact that most of them are killed only so they can sell the heads. Isn't the Indians excuse that they hunt because it's their tradition? Was it tradition to sell elk heads for thousands of dollars and let the meat go to waste?
How many permit hunters #1 priority is to hang a head and horns on their wall? Actually how many general season hunters horn hunt first?
What does that even have to do with what bobcat was saying?
I would assume the statement that they are killed so the heads can be sold references a large antler set :dunno: Which to me is no different than being killed so that large antler set can hang on a wall.
My original point is that it appears the majority of the gripes regarding native kills is the quality of the animal killed. Which in my opinion, doesn't hold water as a statement to whatever group out there this would need to draw the attention of to facilitate a change...
I agree with your point about bull quality having less to do with it however...
Applying for a tag, legally and ethically having the hunt of a lifetime and settling for nothing less than an old warrior bull is different than killing wintering bulls for profit. If all they wanted was antlers to hang on the wall they could go buy them from Louie and not have to worry about applying for a tag and spending money on the hunt.
Post by: cbond3318 on April 09, 2015, 03:28:35 PM
Trophy bull elk are a big deal, because they're the breeders, and we are strictly limited on the number we can take. Also, the fact that most of them are killed only so they can sell the heads. Isn't the Indians excuse that they hunt because it's their tradition? Was it tradition to sell elk heads for thousands of dollars and let the meat go to waste?
How many permit hunters #1 priority is to hang a head and horns on their wall? Actually how many general season hunters horn hunt first?
What does that even have to do with what bobcat was saying?
I would assume the statement that they are killed so the heads can be sold references a large antler set :dunno: Which to me is no different than being killed so that large antler set can hang on a wall.
My original point is that it appears the majority of the gripes regarding native kills is the quality of the animal killed. Which in my opinion, doesn't hold water as a statement to whatever group out there this would need to draw the attention of to facilitate a change...
I agree with your point about bull quality having less to do with it however...
Applying for a tag, legally and ethically having the hunt of a lifetime and settling for nothing less than an old warrior bull is different than killing wintering bulls for profit. If all they wanted was antlers to hang on the wall they could go buy them from Louie and not have to worry about applying for a tag and spending money on the hunt.
I assume in the most basic of forms these guys have a "tag" so to speak, what they do is "legal" (there are always the exceptions) and ethics are in the eye of the beholder.... what is the difference? Time waited between tags/kills?
Post by: bobcat on April 09, 2015, 03:30:44 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on April 09, 2015, 03:51:49 PM
Where is that sarcasm emoticon?
Post by: Tbar on April 09, 2015, 04:01:53 PM
What I see in this thread is an Indian (I'm assuming) in a picture with a bull and an opportunity to start another bashing thread. Mission accomplished. I would and will contact the tribal government of Yakama and express my thoughts and feelings that they could be more active on the management side of hunting. I don't know or think it'll change but at least I can say I tried. Nobody should support a unregulated hunt, nobody.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on April 09, 2015, 04:16:56 PM
Duh. Because these are animals that are not on the reservation and there are a lot of people who pay big money and play by the rules who are screwed year after year by mismanagement. And if you haven't seen complaints about overharvesting of deer than you aren't looking.
I know you've been out of the elk hunting game for 26 years but you don't live under a rock.
But there a 12 threads on the same subject (elk/indians) every year and maybe one on a deer. Don't forget, some guys pay $5500 for a friggin' deer in the Okanogan. I actually keep track of elk hunting all the time, as I do wolves. Not so much on deer, because I don't like the taste of deer meat. Yuck !!
I don't think it's mismanagement, I think it's the WDFW not having any say in the tribes laws. I've talked with tribal members I know and the WDFW can't do squatola to a tribal member. If a white guy gets pulled over on the rez for being drunk, the whiteman LEO has to come and arrest said drunk. I've never had the pleasure, so I'm just repeating what I was told.
Post by: cbond3318 on April 09, 2015, 04:24:29 PM
The difference is they have no limit and a year around season.
And that is the drum that needs to be beat the loudest and most consistent, the rest is just whining .
Post by: BAR C3 on April 09, 2015, 05:08:15 PM
Funny that the only whinning I read about, is about big bulls that the tribes kill. I don't read about the wolves, big deer, maybe a goat or a big horn they kill. Why is that ?:yeah: :tup: :cryriver:
Get out of the truck and get in the woods and you will kill a big bull. The picture of the bull that started the whine session isn't a big bull. I would be shocked if it scored over 300. Look at the tine length and spread. I would pass with a quality tag.
I harvested a 340 class bull with a quality tag, on October 1st where the Muckleshoots and Yakima's hunt. Saw several other 300 class bulls within 10 mile radius in the woods..
So put up some facts before blaming everything on Natives. :bdid:
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 09, 2015, 06:49:32 PM
Let's see whos all talk and whos about action............
Post by: Spawnstar on April 09, 2015, 07:59:46 PM
I don't blame everything on natives,but I have seen tribal hunters come into an area and shoot atleast a dozen Bulls and take just the heads and back straps. There is a big time difference between hunting for the tribe and pure massacre of a herd of Bulls, If that isn't pure BS I don't know what is. Go down the Columbia and look at where the natives have emptied there gill nets on the shore and let the fish just rott. Im 1/4 Indian and none of our family registers cause we don't think we're intitled to anything. and by the way if you think that bull is barely 300 your quite mistaken that bull is atleast 340ish type bull.Funny that the only whinning I read about, is about big bulls that the tribes kill. I don't read about the wolves, big deer, maybe a goat or a big horn they kill. Why is that ?:yeah: :tup: :cryriver:
Get out of the truck and get in the woods and you will kill a big bull. The picture of the bull that started the whine session isn't a big bull. I would be shocked if it scored over 300. Look at the tine length and spread. I would pass with a quality tag.
I harvested a 340 class bull with a quality tag, on October 1st where the Muckleshoots and Yakima's hunt. Saw several other 300 class bulls within 10 mile radius in the woods..
So put up some facts before blaming everything on Natives. :bdid:
Post by: BAR C3 on April 09, 2015, 08:15:41 PM
Your singing an old tune on here. I've seen as many or more white guys poaching and unethical kills than Native and I'm white from the Rez. I've seen Mexicans, Asians, Russians and etc do the same, where's those haters??????I don't blame everything on natives,but I have seen tribal hunters come into an area and shoot atleast a dozen Bulls and take just the heads and back straps. There is a big time difference between hunting for the tribe and pure massacre of a herd of Bulls, If that isn't pure BS I don't know what is. Go down the Columbia and look at where the natives have emptied there gill nets on the shore and let the fish just rott. Im 1/4 Indian and none of our family registers cause we don't think we're intitled to anything. and by the way if you think that bull is barely 300 your quite mistaken that bull is atleast 340ish type bull.Funny that the only whinning I read about, is about big bulls that the tribes kill. I don't read about the wolves, big deer, maybe a goat or a big horn they kill. Why is that ?:yeah: :tup: :cryriver:
Get out of the truck and get in the woods and you will kill a big bull. The picture of the bull that started the whine session isn't a big bull. I would be shocked if it scored over 300. Look at the tine length and spread. I would pass with a quality tag.
I harvested a 340 class bull with a quality tag, on October 1st where the Muckleshoots and Yakima's hunt. Saw several other 300 class bulls within 10 mile radius in the woods..
So put up some facts before blaming everything on Natives. :bdid:
Stay on point, tell me how the Indians are killing all the big bulls?
Post by: coachcw on April 09, 2015, 08:21:31 PM
Post by: mfswallace on April 09, 2015, 08:23:45 PM
That bull is well over 350 I'd say trophy !
:yeah:
Post by: hunterrcc on April 09, 2015, 08:32:10 PM
Post by: lewy on April 09, 2015, 08:42:26 PM
Post by: Jonathan_S on April 09, 2015, 09:05:28 PM
Soooo......is this going to be another all talk and bash thread like in years past??? Or does someone that says "they know who what where and when" going to share that info or was the intent just to stir the pot??? I'd sure like to know who's taking just the heads as that would be useful info for our l.e.o.s as that is against tribal law to waste. Unless of course the excuse is going to be the same as last time "what's the point" "nobody cares" "nothing's going to happen" and I'd say mission accomplished........
Let's see whos all talk and whos about action............
Plat, I for one just wish that the Yakima/Yakama tribe would manage their traditional hunting areas the same as many other tribes which currently offer some of the greatest examples of elk management in the world. I agree most of these threads is just hype. There just isn't much hard evidence of real laws being broken.
The biggest frustration for most people doesn't seem to be the rules being broken. More like what the rules are to begin with. The rule-breakers are the cherry on top IMHO. The muckleshoots coming over and taking elk is tough to swallow too.
Thanks for taking the high road
Post by: BAR C3 on April 09, 2015, 09:16:14 PM
I cant believe the number of people willing to turn a blind eye on the tribal issues in Wa. Must not spend much time in the woods watching what's really going on? Btw, I would hang a non native just as high for the same BS, so don't make it a race thing........The native slaughter is going to have to be reined in at some point fellasA race thing?? I have never seen a thread started on hear about the round up in Montana of all white guys herding up hundreds of elk shooting from there vehicles, wounding game and leaving. That's a hell of a hunt.
How about the Russians taking over the lake beaches in Eastern Washington? Slaughtering of elk and deer cutting off heads and back straps?? How about Asians shooting a herd of elk with a semi automatic and leaving all dead. I did see a guy start a Indian bashing thread on here to find out it was Mexicans. The only one making this a race issue is you all blaming the Indians. It's in every race my friend! :tup:
But I will get back on the subject and say again, which is it? If Indians shoot from the road/truck, how are they killing all the big bulls? I just would like to hear some facts? I surely haven't seen a bunch of 300 class bulls standing on side of the roads? The success rate in Peaches, The Blues, and etc.. would be put of this world.
Naches Sportsman post some pretty big bulls he scouts every year, why aren't those being killed by the Muckleshoots and Yakima's? Shoot he might be going out of business if this issue is so severe. :yike:
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 09, 2015, 09:27:19 PM
. One big difference between all those instances and the tribal issue. That difference is any non tribal member caught shooting an animal out of season or without a proper license and transport tag is breaking the law and can be prosecuted for it. Tribe does it and then rolls through the McDonalds parking lot and grabs a mcchicken. Oh and that bull is WAY bigger than 300".I cant believe the number of people willing to turn a blind eye on the tribal issues in Wa. Must not spend much time in the woods watching what's really going on? Btw, I would hang a non native just as high for the same BS, so don't make it a race thing........The native slaughter is going to have to be reined in at some point fellasA race thing?? I have never seen a thread started on hear about the round up in Montana of all white guys herding up hundreds of elk shooting from there vehicles, wounding game and leaving. That's a hell of a hunt.
How about the Russians taking over the lake beaches in Eastern Washington? Slaughtering of elk and deer cutting off heads and back straps?? How about Asians shooting a herd of elk with a semi automatic and leaving all dead. I did see a guy start a Indian bashing thread on here to find out it was Mexicans. The only one making this a race issue is you all blaming the Indians. It's in every race my friend! :tup:
Post by: Miles on April 09, 2015, 09:31:23 PM
Post by: BAR C3 on April 09, 2015, 09:37:45 PM
I think if the shoe was on the other foot a lot of the guys complaining here would be out hunting every chance they got. There are non tribal guys that are absolute poaching slobs as well... there seems to be some reservations that do quite well when it comes to wildlife management. The Colville tribe seems to have some wonderful trophy opportunity for its members anyway... they must be doing something right. If you actually talk to them you will understand that some are quite fed up with the " bad apples".:yeah: My point exactly!
Some of the biggest Mule deer bucks I've seen taken in Washington in the last 10 years have come from Colville Rez. The whole animal intake in the back of a truck! They are also taken care of the wolves.
Post by: Harbor_hunter on April 09, 2015, 10:07:18 PM
Post by: Dan-o on April 09, 2015, 10:14:30 PM
Funny that the only whinning I read about, is about big bulls that the tribes kill. I don't read about the wolves, big deer, maybe a goat or a big horn they kill. Why is that ?:yeah: :tup: :cryriver:
Get out of the truck and get in the woods and you will kill a big bull. The picture of the bull that started the whine session isn't a big bull. I would be shocked if it scored over 300. Look at the tine length and spread. I would pass with a quality tag.
I harvested a 340 class bull with a quality tag, on October 1st where the Muckleshoots and Yakima's hunt. Saw several other 300 class bulls within 10 mile radius in the woods..
So put up some facts before blaming everything on Natives. :bdid:
QUOTE: "I would be shocked if it scored over 300."
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Thanks, I needed a good laugh.
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: Naches Sportsman on April 09, 2015, 10:18:06 PM
I did see a lot of tribal activity this winter/early spring, documented it, and brought it to the proper authorities. Last winte, I turned in yakamas for chasing elk across canteen flats and nothing was done about it. This winter, the yakamas were seen pulling the barricade on the little rattlesnake apart and on their way down, they left two buck gut piles on the first bridge, and an elk gut pile this side on the bridge. That same day I found 5 buck gutpiles at the intersection of 1500 and 1501. I contacted proper authorities and they could do nothing about it since I didn't see them in the act of causing resource damage.
The main tribal rigs that local nile residents saw were a white toyota quad cab, louie kuneki (blue chevy), the red lifted toyota, and a white ford f 250(the one I turned in). We are not quiet about it when we see the rigs go by.
Since the winter, I have been talking with people about what we can do. What it comes down go is shooting from a road, harrassng/running wildlife, and doing resource damage (driving off road) are all ticketable offenses. Call it in when it happens.
A lot of winter hunting went on this year that went unnoticed. I am preaching to my fellow locals to take pictures of them, their vehicle, and call it in to the sherriffs office when that happens. I think it will be better once an leo is in place next winter that can respond to resource damage calls right away.
Once word got out about them hammering the rattlesnake/north fork oak creek this winter, they were very skiddish.
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 09, 2015, 10:35:41 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 09, 2015, 10:37:57 PM
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on April 09, 2015, 10:47:07 PM
Wait a minute... if all the big elk are gone then how do the natives keep shooting them year after year?there not all gone but they hunt them in there winter mode ... easy pickings kinda like netting salmon :chuckle:
If they are hunting them after the common property season, they were there for you to try to hunt. They are shooting bulls that survived the regular season. I guess you had your chances.
Post by: hunterrcc on April 09, 2015, 11:32:11 PM
Wait a minute... if all the big elk are gone then how do the natives keep shooting them year after year?there not all gone but they hunt them in there winter mode ... easy pickings kinda like netting salmon :chuckle:
If they are hunting them after the common property season, they were there for you to try to hunt. They are shooting bulls that survived the regular season. I guess you had your chances.
Dude this area is not a general season any elk it's a true spike only unless youre lucky a f*** and draw one of its very very very few tags.
Actually you can see many 300" bulls from the road if you know where to look and especially say your in the hills come dec/jan! Not to say non tribal are perfect they are not but the number of Indians shooting animals does way more damage to the bull elk numbers for this unit then any other group hands down. Our state turns a blind eye to it.
Naches does a good job because he hunts hard and doesn't blab about how he just saw some bull at x spot on this site!
Tell me why you all find it ok to kill bull elk by the truck loads and think that it's ok? Well you asked for pictures to prove Indians are shooting things besides meat hunts. Every time I see one I will post it along with those that help them.
And to anyone that thinks this bull is in the low 300" your an idiot look at that bull again it is easily over 380" even in a bad picture. It is actually 404"+\- a couple inches. most will never have a chance to go after one because the tags are getting lower every year for bulls in these units.
Plat, what would you like me to do go yell at some Indians shooting elk I can't do much but show everyone else pictures of your bros killing our bull elk away. Hope you guys are proud of yourselves! Poaching machine!
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 09, 2015, 11:42:02 PM
If something was illegal in the killing of this bull why noThoughiIdoubt e the info instead of beating around the bush side stepping the request? Hey hunterrcc, did you andyour buddy from thorp have fun shooting over 30 deer and leaving them to waste? Or how about your bros that poached the 2 bulls down in the blues? Though I doubt you actually know them I'm just making making assumptions like you.
Post by: Tbar on April 09, 2015, 11:54:43 PM
Post by: hunterrcc on April 10, 2015, 12:07:28 AM
Funny that the only whinning I read about, is about big bulls that the tribes kill. I don't read about the wolves, big deer, maybe a goat or a big horn they kill. Why is that ?:yeah: :tup: :cryriver:
Get out of the truck and get in the woods and you will kill a big bull. The picture of the bull that started the whine session isn't a big bull. I would be shocked if it scored over 300. Look at the tine length and spread. I would pass with a quality tag.
I harvested a 340 class bull with a quality tag, on October 1st where the Muckleshoots and Yakima's hunt. Saw several other 300 class bulls within 10 mile radius in the woods..
So put up some facts before blaming everything on Natives. :bdid:
Fact number 1: bull is over 100"s bigger then you say it is. 404"
2: if I could draw a tag I would shoot a big bull!
3:I would not pass with 30points on a quality tag or a governs tag!
4:I do get out of the truck and that's why I get Bulls! Some pretty nice ones when we can draw a tag.
5: if this bull is 300" and you saw several Bulls like this in a 10 mile radius I guess there are 400" bulls everywhere folks! I am wrong natives carry on and keep on killing all the elk there are plenty of them!
Looking at the spread is not really that great of an angle to see so not sure how you're judging that but maybe that accounts for your lack of inches! Not sure where you miss counted but man really not 300" is beyond laughable! Good night!
Post by: Tbar on April 10, 2015, 12:14:58 AM
Post by: Tbar on April 10, 2015, 12:18:14 AM
Post by: hunterrcc on April 10, 2015, 12:24:46 AM
Hunterrcc you still are not answering a few questions that pertain directly to your claims. What are the bull to cow ratios? Cow to calf ratios? Preseason? Postseason? Spring? Is the herd at objective numbers? Above/below? What are the trends?
So you think that because someone does estimated count of elk from a plane in the middle of the day that it is accurate and reliable? No it's a guess at best. I don't have the magic numbers for you but what I do have is another Indain shooting a big bull that we will not be able to ever draw tag for due to lack of tags because they say the numbers are down on Bulls. Yes the Indian shot it. As for area it doesn't matter I know where it was killed and that's good enough for me! The rest can guess as far as I am concerned!
Post by: Time Immemorial on April 10, 2015, 12:25:55 AM
This is my solution to the problem, if your a Native American then you get to hunt your native land with only your bow or Speer that you made with natural resources. And you can go fishing all year round and keep all the fish you want but you get a dip net and a conoe. I'm a 1/4 Indian and can register but I don't cause these native Americans are destroying so much of our habitat. They are no better than wolves!!!Lol
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on April 10, 2015, 12:27:22 AM
Dude this area is not a general season any elk it's a true spike only unless youre lucky a f*** and draw one of its very very very few tags.
Actually you can see many 300" bulls from the road if you know where to look and especially say your in the hills come dec/jan! Not to say non tribal are perfect they are not but the number of Indians shooting animals does way more damage to the bull elk numbers for this unit then any other group hands down. Our state turns a blind eye to it.
Again, they were there for the guys who were lucky a f***s who got drawn. Instead of complaining about the tribal hunters who are taking out the big bulls because they can, complain to the state who makes you hunt true spike, so a couple lucky a f***s and tribal hunters can hunt all the big bulls if that is what you are interested in. What's the point in protecting the big bulls if they are going to get taken out anyway? The State might as well have a 5 pt bull hunt for everybody. Then the native hunters will have to take spikes and cows and small branched bulls I guess.
But your anger is misplaced. Instead of the tribal hunters, you should be upset with the state and their management scheme.
Post by: Tbar on April 10, 2015, 12:30:03 AM
It's an educated guess using the best available science. I also think it's far more accurate in the Colockum and Yakima herds than say, anywhere in western washington.Hunterrcc you still are not answering a few questions that pertain directly to your claims. What are the bull to cow ratios? Cow to calf ratios? Preseason? Postseason? Spring? Is the herd at objective numbers? Above/below? What are the trends?
So you think that because someone does estimated count of elk from a plane in the middle of the day that it is accurate and reliable? No it's a guess at best. I don't have the magic numbers for you but what I do have is another Indain shooting a big bull that we will not be able to ever draw tag for due to lack of tags because they say the numbers are down on Bulls. Yes the Indian shot it. As for area it doesn't matter I know where it was killed and that's good enough for me! The rest can guess as far as I am concerned!
Post by: hunterrcc on April 10, 2015, 12:33:46 AM
:rolleyes: my bros...oh yes, I forgot, we all know each other and all are best of buddies. Sorry but I'm not a poacher and sorry to disappoint you but I actually do step out of my truck. since you know so much o of the bull why not share some info?
If something was illegal in the killing of this bull why noThoughiIdoubt e the info instead of beating around the bush side stepping the request? Hey hunterrcc, did you andyour buddy from thorp have fun shooting over 30 deer and leaving them to waste? Or how about your bros that poached the 2 bulls down in the blues? Though I doubt you actually know them I'm just making making assumptions like you.
Actually that poacher that shot the deer is getting in trouble just like the other guys in the blues not enough if you ask me but no one does anymore. They are not my kind and I am not ok with the killing the animals unlike you defending the Indians killing big Bulls year after year no limits or oversite Involved ever! I guess it would make sense you would be offend when I lump you into that Indian group because you too like to shoot Bulls like this! Like blman stated they get in trouble and can be prosecuted unlike natives!
Post by: hunterrcc on April 10, 2015, 12:36:59 AM
Agreed 100% west side is a Frickin guess 100%.It's an educated guess using the best available science. I also think it's far more accurate in the Colockum and Yakima herds than say, anywhere in western washington.Hunterrcc you still are not answering a few questions that pertain directly to your claims. What are the bull to cow ratios? Cow to calf ratios? Preseason? Postseason? Spring? Is the herd at objective numbers? Above/below? What are the trends?
So you think that because someone does estimated count of elk from a plane in the middle of the day that it is accurate and reliable? No it's a guess at best. I don't have the magic numbers for you but what I do have is another Indain shooting a big bull that we will not be able to ever draw tag for due to lack of tags because they say the numbers are down on Bulls. Yes the Indian shot it. As for area it doesn't matter I know where it was killed and that's good enough for me! The rest can guess as far as I am concerned!
Post by: Tbar on April 10, 2015, 12:44:14 AM
Hunterrcc, again you are making a generalization that is flat out wrong. There have been several recent prosecutions in tribal courts that are far more severe than the punishments (basing on recent poaching convictions) handed out by the state systems. I will concede that this is a somewhat new trend but it's one that I will at least recognize.:rolleyes: my bros...oh yes, I forgot, we all know each other and all are best of buddies. Sorry but I'm not a poacher and sorry to disappoint you but I actually do step out of my truck. since you know so much o of the bull why not share some info?
If something was illegal in the killing of this bull why noThoughiIdoubt e the info instead of beating around the bush side stepping the request? Hey hunterrcc, did you andyour buddy from thorp have fun shooting over 30 deer and leaving them to waste? Or how about your bros that poached the 2 bulls down in the blues? Though I doubt you actually know them I'm just making making assumptions like you.
Actually that poacher that shot the deer is getting in trouble just like the other guys in the blues not enough if you ask me but no one does anymore. They are not my kind and I am not ok with the killing the animals unlike you defending the Indians killing big Bulls year after year no limits or oversite Involved ever! I guess it would make sense you would be offend when I lump you into that Indian group because you too like to shoot Bulls like this! Like blman stated they get in trouble and can be prosecuted unlike natives!
Post by: hunterrcc on April 10, 2015, 12:49:01 AM
Dude this area is not a general season any elk it's a true spike only unless youre lucky a f*** and draw one of its very very very few tags.
Actually you can see many 300" bulls from the road if you know where to look and especially say your in the hills come dec/jan! Not to say non tribal are perfect they are not but the number of Indians shooting animals does way more damage to the bull elk numbers for this unit then any other group hands down. Our state turns a blind eye to it.
Again, they were there for the guys who were lucky a f***s who got drawn. Instead of complaining about the tribal hunters who are taking out the big bulls because they can, complain to the state who makes you hunt true spike, so a couple lucky a f***s and tribal hunters can hunt all the big bulls if that is what you are interested in. What's the point in protecting the big bulls if they are going to get taken out anyway? The State might as well have a 5 pt bull hunt for everybody. Then the native hunters will have to take spikes and cows and small branched bulls I guess.
But your anger is misplaced. Instead of the tribal hunters, you should be upset with the state and their management scheme.
I am stealing this plan from a friend but I say open up elk to any bull state wide for 2 month season let everyone have a shot at the Bulls and knock them down big time and then once all these big Bulls are back to pre management of bull numbers and Indians are not able to shoot trophy Bulls all winter only the small Bulls and cows because there are not any to shoot then we can talk management with indians. they don't have a choice because right now there is no reason to change for them it is the best hunting they have every had! Big Bulls no pressure from non natives! No reason to change for them or make any deals take away that hand and then maybe they will manage together and use their political power to help manage the elk like others states. Plus they could make thousands of dollars on the hunts instead of a couple hundred for a head.
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 10, 2015, 12:49:28 AM
Post by: hunterrcc on April 10, 2015, 01:06:38 AM
I'm not the one getting and jumping to conclusions. You don't know me and I don't know so I guess we can just agree to disagree. I'm sure you know the specifics but you're not helping the cause by not sharing something about it. Is there some flaw or something inaccurate about your "story" is that why you don't care to share facts about it? Is the pic you provided supposed to be the taxi or the hunter? Or do you even know?
Plat I know enough to share the photo so don't worry about the rest I think it really pisses you off that I know what you guys do and you don't know my sources. Guy shot it this winter you know where like i do. Also the young Indian hunter doesn't look much the part of an Indian meaning he is pretty white! also know the taxi does pretty crappy looking work from what I have seen come out of his shop.
Post by: Time Immemorial on April 10, 2015, 04:56:56 AM
I would beg to differ maybe 404"! Just a well educated guess. I am mad and you should be too when we spent all the time and money to grow all these Bulls by not over harvesting them for many years to just have Indians shoot as many as they want to Every year and then we are limited to a handful of tags to wait years over. As for getting out of the truck and finding big Bulls I have had no problem finding big Bulls my friend but maybe I will try stepping out of the truck that is awesome advise just don't tell the Indians that! :)Must not be very well edjumacated lol, I didn't realize that you was growing elk in Washington, and natives money must grow on trees also eh? Because gas and bullets don't fall from the sky bud.
Post by: Time Immemorial on April 10, 2015, 05:02:26 AM
There you go again blaming the whole tribe bud, it's not the WHOLE TRIBE, come on now like I've said before by doing so you are including children and I don't agree with that, if so then your kids are just as guilty for a white fellow poaching as you are for letting it happen.. One big difference between all those instances and the tribal issue. That difference is any non tribal member caught shooting an animal out of season or without a proper license and transport tag is breaking the law and can be prosecuted for it. Tribe does it and then rolls through the McDonalds parking lot and grabs a mcchicken. Oh and that bull is WAY bigger than 300".I cant believe the number of people willing to turn a blind eye on the tribal issues in Wa. Must not spend much time in the woods watching what's really going on? Btw, I would hang a non native just as high for the same BS, so don't make it a race thing........The native slaughter is going to have to be reined in at some point fellasA race thing?? I have never seen a thread started on hear about the round up in Montana of all white guys herding up hundreds of elk shooting from there vehicles, wounding game and leaving. That's a hell of a hunt.
How about the Russians taking over the lake beaches in Eastern Washington? Slaughtering of elk and deer cutting off heads and back straps?? How about Asians shooting a herd of elk with a semi automatic and leaving all dead. I did see a guy start a Indian bashing thread on here to find out it was Mexicans. The only one making this a race issue is you all blaming the Indians. It's in every race my friend! :tup:
Post by: Time Immemorial on April 10, 2015, 05:11:04 AM
They are not your elk lolWait a minute... if all the big elk are gone then how do the natives keep shooting them year after year?there not all gone but they hunt them in there winter mode ... easy pickings kinda like netting salmon :chuckle:
If they are hunting them after the common property season, they were there for you to try to hunt. They are shooting bulls that survived the regular season. I guess you had your chances.
Dude this area is not a general season any elk it's a true spike only unless youre lucky a f*** and draw one of its very very very few tags.
Actually you can see many 300" bulls from the road if you know where to look and especially say your in the hills come dec/jan! Not to say non tribal are perfect they are not but the number of Indians shooting animals does way more damage to the bull elk numbers for this unit then any other group hands down. Our state turns a blind eye to it.
Naches does a good job because he hunts hard and doesn't blab about how he just saw some bull at x spot on this site!
Tell me why you all find it ok to kill bull elk by the truck loads and think that it's ok? Well you asked for pictures to prove Indians are shooting things besides meat hunts. Every time I see one I will post it along with those that help them.
And to anyone that thinks this bull is in the low 300" your an idiot look at that bull again it is easily over 380" even in a bad picture. It is actually 404"+\- a couple inches. most will never have a chance to go after one because the tags are getting lower every year for bulls in these units.
Plat, what would you like me to do go yell at some Indians shooting elk I can't do much but show everyone else pictures of your bros killing our bull elk away. Hope you guys are proud of yourselves! Poaching machine!
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 10, 2015, 05:12:26 AM
Post by: Time Immemorial on April 10, 2015, 05:18:17 AM
I'm not the one getting and jumping to conclusions. You don't know me and I don't know so I guess we can just agree to disagree. I'm sure you know the specifics but you're not helping the cause by not sharing something about it. Is there some flaw or something inaccurate about your "story" is that why you don't care to share facts about it? Is the pic you provided supposed to be the taxi or the hunter? Or do you even know?YOU POACHER!!! :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: Time Immemorial on April 10, 2015, 05:28:23 AM
:rolleyes: get real, if you think I'm getting mad. since yet again your assumptions are incorrect, I don't care who your sources are and aside from those that are law abiding why would it bother what you know about tribal hunter activity? But again, your assumptions think I'm defending the abusers, the law breakers or the gluttonness ones which I'm not but hey, knock yourself out. I recognized the rack when I seen your pic but waited to see what story you had so I guess I'll share what I know. I know who the tribal member is that shot this bull and its not the person in the pic you posted. I had to wait to confirm the identity and bull but since both have been identified I also know him from years ago as an old classmate though we haven't spoken for many years and weren't bros but we do know each other. Aside from that the person that showed me the pic of him and that bull said he posted itwas a rez bull. I dont know the accuracy of that though. So what's your story? And do you even know the type of mount that was done for this bull since you know so much? Let's hear your version now?Because you was born YAKAMA you are a POACHER, so are your children, keep fighting the good fight BRO they'll never change, we are wrong because we my friend are red and not white, if your not white then anything you do is wrong.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 10, 2015, 05:45:02 AM
. Come on Time! You and I both know I have never blamed the WHOLE tribe! Just because I didn't type out "Yakama/Muckelshoot enrolled member who over harvests" doesn't mean I am painting with that broad of a brush. Next time I see you post about non tribal poaching please make sure you specify what kind of poacher they are.There you go again blaming the whole tribe bud, it's not the WHOLE TRIBE, come on now like I've said before by doing so you are including children and I don't agree with that, if so then your kids are just as guilty for a white fellow poaching as you are for letting it happen.. One big difference between all those instances and the tribal issue. That difference is any non tribal member caught shooting an animal out of season or without a proper license and transport tag is breaking the law and can be prosecuted for it. Tribe does it and then rolls through the McDonalds parking lot and grabs a mcchicken. Oh and that bull is WAY bigger than 300".I cant believe the number of people willing to turn a blind eye on the tribal issues in Wa. Must not spend much time in the woods watching what's really going on? Btw, I would hang a non native just as high for the same BS, so don't make it a race thing........The native slaughter is going to have to be reined in at some point fellasA race thing?? I have never seen a thread started on hear about the round up in Montana of all white guys herding up hundreds of elk shooting from there vehicles, wounding game and leaving. That's a hell of a hunt.
How about the Russians taking over the lake beaches in Eastern Washington? Slaughtering of elk and deer cutting off heads and back straps?? How about Asians shooting a herd of elk with a semi automatic and leaving all dead. I did see a guy start a Indian bashing thread on here to find out it was Mexicans. The only one making this a race issue is you all blaming the Indians. It's in every race my friend! :tup:
Post by: Time Immemorial on April 10, 2015, 06:09:06 AM
Post by: biggbuck on April 10, 2015, 06:33:10 AM
Post by: biggbuck on April 10, 2015, 06:35:49 AM
Post by: baker5150 on April 10, 2015, 06:43:19 AM
If the Herd suffers to the point of no more hunting, are the Tribes going to stop hunting them? Are the Wolves?
Are our herds actually suffering from over harvest? Can anyone on here say that and actually back it up with something other than "there are no elk where I hunt"
Post by: bearhunter99 on April 10, 2015, 06:56:33 AM
You shouldn't be attacking Plat. If you actually read his responses in other threads you would realize that he has never condoned the over-harvesting of big bulls and has never "defended" the other members of the tribe that are causing these problems. From what I have seen he has done what he can to try to alleviate the situation by asking for any information of wastage to be relayed to him so that he can try to make changes.:rolleyes: my bros...oh yes, I forgot, we all know each other and all are best of buddies. Sorry but I'm not a poacher and sorry to disappoint you but I actually do step out of my truck. since you know so much o of the bull why not share some info?
If something was illegal in the killing of this bull why noThoughiIdoubt e the info instead of beating around the bush side stepping the request? Hey hunterrcc, did you andyour buddy from thorp have fun shooting over 30 deer and leaving them to waste? Or how about your bros that poached the 2 bulls down in the blues? Though I doubt you actually know them I'm just making making assumptions like you.
Actually that poacher that shot the deer is getting in trouble just like the other guys in the blues not enough if you ask me but no one does anymore. They are not my kind and I am not ok with the killing the animals unlike you defending the Indians killing big Bulls year after year no limits or oversite Involved ever! I guess it would make sense you would be offend when I lump you into that Indian group because you too like to shoot Bulls like this! Like blman stated they get in trouble and can be prosecuted unlike natives!
We all need to be diligent when out in the woods. If you see something that doesn't look right, take a picture, jot down some notes and turn it over to the proper authorities instead of ranting and raving. If they say they can't do anything about it tell them you still want to file a report, get it on paper, establish a pattern.
Post by: coachcw on April 10, 2015, 06:59:33 AM
Post by: Rob Allen on April 10, 2015, 07:16:56 AM
Post by: baker5150 on April 10, 2015, 07:17:23 AM
You shouldn't be attacking Plat. If you actually read his responses in other threads you would realize that he has never condoned the over-harvesting of big bulls and has never "defended" the other members of the tribe that are causing these problems. From what I have seen he has done what he can to try to alleviate the situation by asking for any information of wastage to be relayed to him so that he can try to make changes.:rolleyes: my bros...oh yes, I forgot, we all know each other and all are best of buddies. Sorry but I'm not a poacher and sorry to disappoint you but I actually do step out of my truck. since you know so much o of the bull why not share some info?
If something was illegal in the killing of this bull why noThoughiIdoubt e the info instead of beating around the bush side stepping the request? Hey hunterrcc, did you andyour buddy from thorp have fun shooting over 30 deer and leaving them to waste? Or how about your bros that poached the 2 bulls down in the blues? Though I doubt you actually know them I'm just making making assumptions like you.
Actually that poacher that shot the deer is getting in trouble just like the other guys in the blues not enough if you ask me but no one does anymore. They are not my kind and I am not ok with the killing the animals unlike you defending the Indians killing big Bulls year after year no limits or oversite Involved ever! I guess it would make sense you would be offend when I lump you into that Indian group because you too like to shoot Bulls like this! Like blman stated they get in trouble and can be prosecuted unlike natives!
We all need to be diligent when out in the woods. If you see something that doesn't look right, take a picture, jot down some notes and turn it over to the proper authorities instead of ranting and raving. If they say they can't do anything about it tell them you still want to file a report, get it on paper, establish a pattern.
:yeah:
But I say Rant all you want, just back it up. The more who the know the better. The lack of education in matters like this are their main downfall. No better example than this very thread.
Post by: biggbuck on April 10, 2015, 07:54:01 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 10, 2015, 08:30:14 AM
Post by: baker5150 on April 10, 2015, 08:56:44 AM
So coach was your source with them when they harvested this bull? I highly doubt it this bull was shot about 10 miles west of whit Swan in the closed area of the reservation. I agree with you on a certain few yakamas out shooting every damn animal with horns. I've been saying it for years something needs to be done to stop that from happening. I just don't agree with people talking smack about a tribal member that I know personally and is not one of those unethical hunters. I've put in alot of time hunting with this guy and I congratulate him on his awesome kill. We seen a bull that was quite a bit bigger then the bull in this post but he was able to sneak away from us. Once again know the story before you start bashing someone. I'm 100% positive non of you know the story about this awesome bull.
It's great that guys like you can set the record straight, especially if someone has bad info. This is what will keep guys from jumping to conclusions in the future.
But at the same time, just saying you know the "real" story, is just as suspect as the guys who claim it was some random native out slaughtering for fun. Ive read a few lines on this forum where guys where 100% positive and ended up completely wrong in the end.
Post by: runamuk on April 10, 2015, 08:58:47 AM
So coach was your source with them when they harvested this bull? I highly doubt it this bull was shot about 10 miles west of whit Swan in the closed area of the reservation. I agree with you on a certain few yakamas out shooting every damn animal with horns. I've been saying it for years something needs to be done to stop that from happening. I just don't agree with people talking smack about a tribal member that I know personally and is not one of those unethical hunters. I've put in alot of time hunting with this guy and I congratulate him on his awesome kill. We seen a bull that was quite a bit bigger then the bull in this post but he was able to sneak away from us. Once again know the story before you start bashing someone. I'm 100% positive non of you know the story about this awesome bull.
And I sure would like to but hell who wants to share anything if you are just going to be flamed and bashed and told you don't know where you actually killed your bull etc.
Its a nice bull and its got some cool distinctive stickers. And if it was killed on the rez well there is a little bit of yummy crow to ate in this thread if you ask me ;) :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: cwbobcathunter on April 10, 2015, 09:05:33 AM
:o Here's the same bull, at the kill site.
Post by: Tbar on April 10, 2015, 09:15:26 AM
:yeah:So coach was your source with them when they harvested this bull? I highly doubt it this bull was shot about 10 miles west of whit Swan in the closed area of the reservation. I agree with you on a certain few yakamas out shooting every damn animal with horns. I've been saying it for years something needs to be done to stop that from happening. I just don't agree with people talking smack about a tribal member that I know personally and is not one of those unethical hunters. I've put in alot of time hunting with this guy and I congratulate him on his awesome kill. We seen a bull that was quite a bit bigger then the bull in this post but he was able to sneak away from us. Once again know the story before you start bashing someone. I'm 100% positive non of you know the story about this awesome bull.
And I sure would like to but hell who wants to share anything if you are just going to be flamed and bashed and told you don't know where you actually killed your bull etc.
Its a nice bull and its got some cool distinctive stickers. And if it was killed on the rez well there is a little bit of yummy crow to ate in this thread if you ask me ;) :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: frazierw on April 10, 2015, 09:31:30 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 10, 2015, 09:45:16 AM
This thread is ridiculous. The OP is bordering on slander by posting a picture of someone he doesnt know, with a bull he knows nothing about. This thread should be deleted.. With all due respect, calling the OP a liar just because somebody else has a different story doesn't make much sense. I missed where there was PROOF EITHER WAY on where and who killed this bull. I'm not siding one way or the other but its an unfair assumption on who has the correct story when its purely a he said she said kind of thing.
Post by: frazierw on April 10, 2015, 09:52:35 AM
Post by: mfswallace on April 10, 2015, 10:22:54 AM
Post by: frazihunt on April 10, 2015, 10:26:52 AM
Post by: jackelope on April 10, 2015, 10:57:01 AM
Answer: Indians!
Another bull lost to Indians in the white mans off season! And we wonder why our elk areas only have a limited tag quota it's because the Indians go into it and slaughter how ever many Bulls they want to forcing us to have low numbers of tags. They need oversight from a third party to issue permits for special draw areas just like we have so we can limit the number of our big Bulls dying.
This thread is ridiculous. The OP is bordering on slander by posting a picture of someone he doesnt know, with a bull he knows nothing about. This thread should be deleted.
There is no slander here. He posted facts. A native killed the bull and the taxidermist is a taxidermist.
The taxi's name has been removed. That seems fair.
Post by: cbond3318 on April 10, 2015, 10:57:43 AM
To the OP i don't know who you think you are but you had no right posting this picture in the first place. Sure another Native shot a nice bull, was it done legally? sure was! If you have a problem with that, that's fine but don't go throwing names of people out there that you don't even now then proceed to bad mouth their work. That's real "sportsman" like!
Post by: Practical Approach on April 10, 2015, 10:59:38 AM
Boldt decision is so corrupt it's not even funny. Guys wife was an Indian and he had Alzheimer's. In all societies throughout the history of mankind other than the current society conquered people become enslaved. In our society they get all kinds of special privilege and monopolies go figure.
Whats the Boldt decision have to do with hunting?
Post by: Tbar on April 10, 2015, 11:04:52 AM
Are you(open question) okay with someone posting a picture of you or an animal you legally harvested? Then take it a step further and paint you (or your animal with someone else) in a negative light? You would be fine with all the unfounded accusations and bashing directed at you and your legally harvested animal? I know I would not but it's commonplace on this site and unfortunate. Any time it's tribal it's accusatory and negative here.This thread is ridiculous. The OP is bordering on slander by posting a picture of someone he doesnt know, with a bull he knows nothing about. This thread should be deleted.. With all due respect, calling the OP a liar just because somebody else has a different story doesn't make much sense. I missed where there was PROOF EITHER WAY on where and who killed this bull. I'm not siding one way or the other but its an unfair assumption on who has the correct story when its purely a he said she said kind of thing.
These are open questions to anyone not trying to single anyone out, put yourself in the hunters shoes. If you want to talk politics and inequity then start a thread about your differing opinions on tribal hunting, don't single out an animal or individual without being willing to cite your facts and sources. I'm not calling anyone a liar but there are multiple members citing specifics on where the bull was killed and the op only makes ambiguous generalizations and refuses to provide any specifics. I agree this thread should be deleted or the op should come clean with proof of his accusations.
Post by: hunterrcc on April 10, 2015, 11:06:42 AM
To the OP i don't know who you think you are but you had no right posting this picture in the first place. Sure another Native shot a nice bull, was it done legally? sure was! If you have a problem with that, that's fine but don't go throwing names of people out there that you don't even now then proceed to bad mouth their work. That's real "sportsman" like!
Only because Frazier claims to be the picture taker I will remove it per his request. As for knowing the quality of the taxi work I have seen a few mounts he has done looks ok at best doesn't even brush the hid down it stick up everywhere. Maybe that's how you like it but I am just saying the work looked not very good. Imo. And because he supports your slaughter I wouldn't support him for one minute. As for the bull being killed on Rez I Doubt it. Nice story though! Also was it a 300" or 400" cuz some seem to think it was 300" and since you have first hand knowledge you should be able to clarify it very easily!
Post by: Tbar on April 10, 2015, 11:12:04 AM
So initially you thought it was fine to post a pic from an unknown source and make accusations?To the OP i don't know who you think you are but you had no right posting this picture in the first place. Sure another Native shot a nice bull, was it done legally? sure was! If you have a problem with that, that's fine but don't go throwing names of people out there that you don't even now then proceed to bad mouth their work. That's real "sportsman" like!
Only because Frazier claims to be the picture taker I will remove it per his request. As for knowing the quality of the taxi work I have seen a few mounts he has done looks ok at best doesn't even brush the hid down it stick up everywhere. Maybe that's how you like it but I am just saying the work looked not very good. Imo. And because he supports your slaughter I wouldn't support him for one minute. As for the bull being killed on Rez I Doubt it. Nice story though! Also was it a 300" or 400" cuz some seem to think it was 300" and since you have first hand knowledge you should be able to clarify it very easily!
Post by: Practical Approach on April 10, 2015, 11:18:14 AM
Post by: hunterrcc on April 10, 2015, 11:22:34 AM
Are you(open question) okay with someone posting a picture of you or an animal you legally harvested? Then take it a step further and paint you (or your animal with someone else) in a negative light? You would be fine with all the unfounded accusations and bashing directed at you and your legally harvested animal? I know I would not but it's commonplace on this site and unfortunate. Any time it's tribal it's accusatory and negative here.This thread is ridiculous. The OP is bordering on slander by posting a picture of someone he doesnt know, with a bull he knows nothing about. This thread should be deleted.. With all due respect, calling the OP a liar just because somebody else has a different story doesn't make much sense. I missed where there was PROOF EITHER WAY on where and who killed this bull. I'm not siding one way or the other but its an unfair assumption on who has the correct story when its purely a he said she said kind of thing.
These are open questions to anyone not trying to single anyone out, put yourself in the hunters shoes. If you want to talk politics and inequity then start a thread about your differing opinions on tribal hunting, don't single out an animal or individual without being willing to cite your facts and sources. I'm not calling anyone a liar but there are multiple members citing specifics on where the bull was killed and the op only makes ambiguous generalizations and refuses to provide any specifics. I agree this thread should be deleted or the op should come clean with proof of his accusations.
Tbar I would not tell you where any elk was killed for all I know you would use that info to know where to go look for big bulls yourself or to tell your Indian friends! I didn't say anything bad about the guy. And for the record I have been bashed here before I was a member and accused of helping poach Nail benders Bulls in 2009. There was the so many rumors about the gut pile being checked by game wardens, party hunting, shooting it the night before the season, us using a group of people to follow the bull for days, shooting it in a closed unit, on and on even wasting it. So yes I do know how it is to be rumored over a large bull people get jealous. But thing is you can shoot any bull while we are trying to grow the herd and keep all the Bulls from being killed and Indians do their damn best to shoot as many as possible. Not to mention many other times on this site. I know enough that all the Indians on here don't like being called out for their shooting of bulls so If I see one killed I will post it.
Post by: coachcw on April 10, 2015, 11:24:22 AM
Yup, there are no big bulls left when I go hunting because there are too many hunters in the woods period each season. Washington needs to go to a permit only everywhere season. Too much hunting pressure from early archery, archery, muzzle loader, late muzzleloader, late archery, modern firearm, multi-season, and tribal seasons where applicable.:tup:and every yar member draws as many quality bull and buck tags they want :chuckle: Draw for every one and I'd be game ! Im sure if most of us looked into our family tree we would have 1/8 Indian in us .... maybe we all should just hunt when ever till all the game is gone and the story is over?
Post by: jackelope on April 10, 2015, 11:24:35 AM
Are you(open question) okay with someone posting a picture of you or an animal you legally harvested? Then take it a step further and paint you (or your animal with someone else) in a negative light? You would be fine with all the unfounded accusations and bashing directed at you and your legally harvested animal? I know I would not but it's commonplace on this site and unfortunate. Any time it's tribal it's accusatory and negative here.This thread is ridiculous. The OP is bordering on slander by posting a picture of someone he doesnt know, with a bull he knows nothing about. This thread should be deleted.. With all due respect, calling the OP a liar just because somebody else has a different story doesn't make much sense. I missed where there was PROOF EITHER WAY on where and who killed this bull. I'm not siding one way or the other but its an unfair assumption on who has the correct story when its purely a he said she said kind of thing.
These are open questions to anyone not trying to single anyone out, put yourself in the hunters shoes. If you want to talk politics and inequity then start a thread about your differing opinions on tribal hunting, don't single out an animal or individual without being willing to cite your facts and sources. I'm not calling anyone a liar but there are multiple members citing specifics on where the bull was killed and the op only makes ambiguous generalizations and refuses to provide any specifics. I agree this thread should be deleted or the op should come clean with proof of his accusations.
Tbar I would not tell you where any elk was killed for all I know you would use that info to know where to go look for big bulls yourself or to tell your Indian friends! I didn't say anything bad about the guy. And for the record I have been bashed here before I was a member and accused of helping poach Nail benders Bulls in 2009. There was the so many rumors about the gut pile being checked by game wardens, party hunting, shooting it the night before the season, us using a group of people to follow the bull for days, shooting it in a closed unit, on and on even wasting it. So yes I do know how it is to be rumored over a large bull people get jealous. But thing is you can shoot any bull while we are trying to grow the herd and keep all the Bulls from being killed and Indians do their damn best to shoot as many as possible. Not to mention many other times on this site. I know enough that all the Indians on here don't like being called out for their shooting of bulls so If I see one killed I will post it.
Wow, that's a lot of info.
Post by: Jonathan_S on April 10, 2015, 11:26:00 AM
Yup, there are no big bulls left when I go hunting because there are too many hunters in the woods period each season. Washington needs to go to a permit only everywhere season. Too much hunting pressure from early archery, archery, muzzle loader, late muzzleloader, late archery, modern firearm, multi-season, and tribal seasons where applicable.:tup:and every yar member draws as many quality bull and buck tags they want :chuckle: Draw for every one and I'd be game ! Im sure if most of us looked into our family tree we would have 1/8 Indian in us .... maybe we all should just hunt when ever till all the game is gone and the story is over?
:yeah: I'm a quarter Cherokee, I'm an Indian Outlaw like Tim McGraw. Sign me up for a couple of bulls too. I know my rights!
Post by: frazierw on April 10, 2015, 11:28:13 AM
To the OP i don't know who you think you are but you had no right posting this picture in the first place. Sure another Native shot a nice bull, was it done legally? sure was! If you have a problem with that, that's fine but don't go throwing names of people out there that you don't even now then proceed to bad mouth their work. That's real "sportsman" like!
Only because Frazier claims to be the picture taker I will remove it per his request. As for knowing the quality of the taxi work I have seen a few mounts he has done looks ok at best doesn't even brush the hid down it stick up everywhere. Maybe that's how you like it but I am just saying the work looked not very good. Imo. And because he supports your slaughter I wouldn't support him for one minute. As for the bull being killed on Rez I Doubt it. Nice story though! Also was it a 300" or 400" cuz some seem to think it was 300" and since you have first hand knowledge you should be able to clarify it very easily!
Very mature of you to take the time to post this bull and them bash a taxidermist's work. The killing of the bull has nothing to do with the taxidermist and his work. Trolls will troll i guess
Post by: coachcw on April 10, 2015, 11:28:23 AM
I still think of that bull ! I had him at 80 yards and coming in with a bull tag in my pocket , when a cow came off the hill and he took her away .... had to settle for a 340 dink Satellite bull . Nailbender did have some great access no doubt .Are you(open question) okay with someone posting a picture of you or an animal you legally harvested? Then take it a step further and paint you (or your animal with someone else) in a negative light? You would be fine with all the unfounded accusations and bashing directed at you and your legally harvested animal? I know I would not but it's commonplace on this site and unfortunate. Any time it's tribal it's accusatory and negative here.This thread is ridiculous. The OP is bordering on slander by posting a picture of someone he doesnt know, with a bull he knows nothing about. This thread should be deleted.. With all due respect, calling the OP a liar just because somebody else has a different story doesn't make much sense. I missed where there was PROOF EITHER WAY on where and who killed this bull. I'm not siding one way or the other but its an unfair assumption on who has the correct story when its purely a he said she said kind of thing.
These are open questions to anyone not trying to single anyone out, put yourself in the hunters shoes. If you want to talk politics and inequity then start a thread about your differing opinions on tribal hunting, don't single out an animal or individual without being willing to cite your facts and sources. I'm not calling anyone a liar but there are multiple members citing specifics on where the bull was killed and the op only makes ambiguous generalizations and refuses to provide any specifics. I agree this thread should be deleted or the op should come clean with proof of his accusations.
Tbar I would not tell you where any elk was killed for all I know you would use that info to know where to go look for big bulls yourself or to tell your Indian friends! I didn't say anything bad about the guy. And for the record I have been bashed here before I was a member and accused of helping poach Nail benders Bulls in 2009. There was the so many rumors about the gut pile being checked by game wardens, party hunting, shooting it the night before the season, us using a group of people to follow the bull for days, shooting it in a closed unit, on and on even wasting it. So yes I do know how it is to be rumored over a large bull people get jealous. But thing is you can shoot any bull while we are trying to grow the herd and keep all the Bulls from being killed and Indians do their damn best to shoot as many as possible. Not to mention many other times on this site. I know enough that all the Indians on here don't like being called out for their shooting of bulls so If I see one killed I will post it.
Post by: coachcw on April 10, 2015, 11:30:20 AM
Post by: Tbar on April 10, 2015, 11:35:34 AM
Your accusatory (towards myself) comments are laughable.Are you(open question) okay with someone posting a picture of you or an animal you legally harvested? Then take it a step further and paint you (or your animal with someone else) in a negative light? You would be fine with all the unfounded accusations and bashing directed at you and your legally harvested animal? I know I would not but it's commonplace on this site and unfortunate. Any time it's tribal it's accusatory and negative here.This thread is ridiculous. The OP is bordering on slander by posting a picture of someone he doesnt know, with a bull he knows nothing about. This thread should be deleted.. With all due respect, calling the OP a liar just because somebody else has a different story doesn't make much sense. I missed where there was PROOF EITHER WAY on where and who killed this bull. I'm not siding one way or the other but its an unfair assumption on who has the correct story when its purely a he said she said kind of thing.
These are open questions to anyone not trying to single anyone out, put yourself in the hunters shoes. If you want to talk politics and inequity then start a thread about your differing opinions on tribal hunting, don't single out an animal or individual without being willing to cite your facts and sources. I'm not calling anyone a liar but there are multiple members citing specifics on where the bull was killed and the op only makes ambiguous generalizations and refuses to provide any specifics. I agree this thread should be deleted or the op should come clean with proof of his accusations.
Tbar I would not tell you where any elk was killed for all I know you would use that info to know where to go look for big bulls yourself or to tell your Indian friends! I didn't say anything bad about the guy. And for the record I have been bashed here before I was a member and accused of helping poach Nail benders Bulls in 2009. There was the so many rumors about the gut pile being checked by game wardens, party hunting, shooting it the night before the season, us using a group of people to follow the bull for days, shooting it in a closed unit, on and on even wasting it. So yes I do know how it is to be rumored over a large bull people get jealous. But thing is you can shoot any bull while we are trying to grow the herd and keep all the Bulls from being killed and Indians do their damn best to shoot as many as possible. Not to mention many other times on this site. I know enough that all the Indians on here don't like being called out for their shooting of bulls so If I see one killed I will post it.
Post by: Naches Sportsman on April 10, 2015, 11:58:16 AM
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 10, 2015, 12:01:45 PM
Post by: hunterrcc on April 10, 2015, 12:27:55 PM
So are you saying this bull in question was mounted and you seen it?
No how dumb are you I never once said this bull was mounted and that I saw the bull! I state I have seen his work and not impressed at all.
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 10, 2015, 12:30:44 PM
So are you saying this bull in question was mounted and you seen it?
No how dumb are you I never once said this bull was mounted and that I saw the bull! I state I have seen his work and not impressed at all.
I'd say the same but its pretty obvious.
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 10, 2015, 12:37:10 PM
Post by: frazihunt on April 10, 2015, 12:38:45 PM
If this bull was shot on the rez, I wonder how the frazier guy got on there. I didn't know they allowed white people on the rez. Your family supports mdf and rmef, but thinks tribal hunting is ok? Look what they did to your old stomping grounds up oak creek.
Ben, don't bring my family into this we had nothing to do with the harvesting of this bull. I simply had my picture taken with it. And now some guy thinks it's okay to post that picture on here without my consent is ridiculous. Now rumors are being spread, making people look bad which isn't necessary. I never once said i supported tribal hunting, and even if i do or don't does it really matter? Both parties have their rights and that's how it is plain and simple. Probably going to be like that for some time. I'm well aware of the oak creek situation and you think seeing that heard diminish makes me happy? No, but there's a time and place to bitch about these things and this is neither.
Post by: Woodchuck on April 10, 2015, 12:46:16 PM
- NAME CALLING, ANTAGONIZING, DEMEANING, or BELITTLING other Members
Keep it civil.
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 10, 2015, 12:49:18 PM
I haven't killed anything this past season though its not from a lack of effort just had many factors that outweighed taking any game. Dont worry this year ill be sure to post what area im in amd get as much proof about my location but im sure youll still claim i wasnt in the area I said iI was in.
So just to get clarity, you would not take your business to anybody that did work for tribal members???
So if I drew a goat tag or ram tag and took it to ........let's say Charlie's taxidermy or all that's wild or any one of the members on here because they do such great work you wouldn't use them ever??? Wow is all I can say so if I ever got one of those tags because believe it or not we have to apply andget drawn for one of those animals in iI'llbe sure not to post which taxi iIuse to spare them your ridicule.
Post by: MADMAX on April 10, 2015, 12:55:22 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22iBK4osDr0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22iBK4osDr0)
Post by: Time Immemorial on April 10, 2015, 01:02:01 PM
The only one ever getting upset on here is you because you continue to bash and bash without actually having any solid info. I don't care if you post something about tribal members hunting just get the story straight and don't act like a little kid just because someone questions the legitimacy of your accusations.Damn Poachers lol
I haven't killed anything this past season though its not from a lack of effort just had many factors that outweighed taking any game. Dont worry this year ill be sure to post what area im in amd get as much proof about my location but im sure youll still claim i wasnt in the area I said iI was in.
So just to get clarity, you would not take your business to anybody that did work for tribal members???
So if I drew a goat tag or ram tag and took it to ........let's say Charlie's taxidermy or all that's wild or any one of the members on here because they do such great work you wouldn't use them ever??? Wow is all I can say so if I ever got one of those tags because believe it or not we have to apply andget drawn for one of those animals in iI'llbe sure not to post which taxi iIuse to spare them your ridicule.
Post by: Tbar on April 10, 2015, 01:10:25 PM
The taxidermist that profit off those Indian bulls are a big part of the problem ! no saying this guy is just saying .... That Why I use Ric . He is slow but ethical :chuckle:Ric doesn't mount tribal bulls?
Post by: frazierw on April 10, 2015, 01:13:28 PM
Post by: frazierw on April 10, 2015, 01:14:45 PM
Post by: Tbar on April 10, 2015, 01:24:27 PM
The irony within this post!Are you(open question) okay with someone posting a picture of you or an animal you legally harvested? Then take it a step further and paint you (or your animal with someone else) in a negative light? You would be fine with all the unfounded accusations and bashing directed at you and your legally harvested animal? I know I would not but it's commonplace on this site and unfortunate. Any time it's tribal it's accusatory and negative here.This thread is ridiculous. The OP is bordering on slander by posting a picture of someone he doesnt know, with a bull he knows nothing about. This thread should be deleted.. With all due respect, calling the OP a liar just because somebody else has a different story doesn't make much sense. I missed where there was PROOF EITHER WAY on where and who killed this bull. I'm not siding one way or the other but its an unfair assumption on who has the correct story when its purely a he said she said kind of thing.
These are open questions to anyone not trying to single anyone out, put yourself in the hunters shoes. If you want to talk politics and inequity then start a thread about your differing opinions on tribal hunting, don't single out an animal or individual without being willing to cite your facts and sources. I'm not calling anyone a liar but there are multiple members citing specifics on where the bull was killed and the op only makes ambiguous generalizations and refuses to provide any specifics. I agree this thread should be deleted or the op should come clean with proof of his accusations.
Tbar I would not tell you where any elk was killed for all I know you would use that info to know where to go look for big bulls yourself or to tell your Indian friends! I didn't say anything bad about the guy. And for the record I have been bashed here before I was a member and accused of helping poach Nail benders Bulls in 2009. There was the so many rumors about the gut pile being checked by game wardens, party hunting, shooting it the night before the season, us using a group of people to follow the bull for days, shooting it in a closed unit, on and on even wasting it. So yes I do know how it is to be rumored over a large bull people get jealous. But thing is you can shoot any bull while we are trying to grow the herd and keep all the Bulls from being killed and Indians do their damn best to shoot as many as possible. Not to mention many other times on this site. I know enough that all the Indians on here don't like being called out for their shooting of bulls so If I see one killed I will post it.
If you are trying to grow the herd as you state please provide some scientific info. Herd status, ratios, trends, anything that's factual.
Post by: jackelope on April 10, 2015, 01:27:35 PM