Post by: curlewkiller on April 18, 2015, 09:14:23 PM
Post by: turkeyfeather on April 18, 2015, 09:19:21 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on April 18, 2015, 09:26:29 PM
Post by: 2labs on April 18, 2015, 09:50:36 PM
Watch Remington under fire.
Post by: sled on April 18, 2015, 10:03:25 PM
Yea, and model 700s are a joke!. I must have gotten a good one. Never had a problem with my 700. :rolleyes:
Watch Remington under fire.
Post by: 2labs on April 18, 2015, 10:09:07 PM
Watch the vid. Buddy had one that would fire when he closed the bolt!
Post by: IBspoiled on April 18, 2015, 10:22:54 PM
Post by: mountainman on April 18, 2015, 10:34:27 PM
Post by: magnumb on April 19, 2015, 08:49:16 AM
Lotta people did. Including myself. Won't buy another!
Watch the vid. Buddy had one that would fire when he closed the bolt!
:yeah:......my buddy and I bought the first two Rem. LSS M700's in 300 RUM that were sold at a major gunshop in our area. As he chambered a round, applying all of the safety precautions necessary before headin' off down the hill on an elk hunt, his firearm discharged shooting the top out of a close by pine tree.
I looked up all the 'reviews' online after we got home from that hunt and was amazed at all of the AD's that were being reported.......and had been for years and years!
This is certainly a subject that has been known for years and if an experienced, knowledgable/dedicated, shooter and or hunter of M700's hasn't either read about these issues or hasn't heard about them......they either don't want to believe it or live in a hole somewhere.
My 300 RUM has a Jewell trigger and it was installed before I ever fired it.
The current M700's triggers are now a different animal (as far as design....I can't and won't speak for it's integrity as I have no current experience with the newest M700's) , but for waaaaaay too many years, Remington was well aware of the 'faulty' triggers they produced and did nothing about it. If you own older M700's, it is best that you adhere to every safe firearm handling practice possible.......in spades.
For the M700 trigger history.....Google is your friend.
Post by: headshot5 on April 19, 2015, 08:57:55 AM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on April 19, 2015, 08:59:15 AM
As far as the 700 remark :o I own few Remington 700's ..Never ever had any safety problem what so ever .. :rolleyes: is right !
Post by: shocking300 on April 19, 2015, 09:17:48 AM
Post by: RadSav on April 19, 2015, 09:44:33 AM
Guy says winchester on the video why yall bashing Remington?
I assume it's because they had a similar issue recently.
Post by: magnumb on April 19, 2015, 09:47:06 AM
Anyone now scared of their remington 700's, hit me up if you want to sell. :tung:
The OP started this thread as a 'heads-up' to members here as to the chances of an AD taking place with this firearm. This AD, as was initially stated by '2labs', was obviously offered as just another note of caution for those less informed about the potential for the exact same AD's in the older M700's. My comments were made in support of that post and was intended only as another 'heads-up' to our members.
It is obvious that you have decided to discount our first hand experiences and the hundreds of other M700 owners who have reported similar experiences/AD's.......for your own reasons. Being a 'brand loyalist' is not uncommon and seems to be a popular and easy approach to take under such circumstances. What would, no doubt, be more prudent and more convincing would be for you to offer some intelligent reason (or several or any) why the huge #'s of M700 owners of years past all evidently had a bone big enough to pick with Remington that would make us and them lie about the AD's we all witnessed first hand. If I remember correctly, a few deaths were incurred, as well.
I never bashed Remington in my earlier post as I've owned more than my fair share in my earlier years, but as did the OP in this thread, I felt it worthwhile to mention that the video of the AD the OP showed us and which we all should be quite concerned with, still exists in thousands of older M700's being used today......and likely by many members here, who have no doubt passed them on down the line to other loved ones. As is evident, not many here were aware of the numerous AD's experienced by the older M700's. I don't see that informing others in an effort to make them potentially safer should somehow cause you to want to immediately discount hundreds of your fellow hunters experiences due to what can only be attributed to.......brand loyalty and not having experienced a M700 AD....yourself.
I don't figure that every Vega burst into a fireball after every rear-end collision either, but certainly hundreds did and resulted in numerous deaths and law suits. You could probably find a few of them still around too......so, if you're a 'Chevy guy', brand loyalist, you might request of all those current owners that they contact you as well so that you can take them off of their hands.......and then pass them along to your loved one's, as well........ :tup:
Post by: jackelope on April 19, 2015, 09:48:17 AM
Guy says winchester on the video why yall bashing Remington?
Probably because of the recalls and all the issues they've had with accidental discharges.
Post by: Biggerhammer on April 19, 2015, 11:07:07 AM
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: RadSav on April 19, 2015, 11:53:06 AM
I can remember everyone slamming Ruger for their pistols and 10/22, Springfield 1911 with similar issues, Smith and Wesson rifle issues, Thompson single shot still has the same issue they always have...that's scary too!! Just give it time and I'm sure your favorite gun manufacture will have some amount of scary troubles creep up. If one gets bashed today the other will get bashed tomorrow and yet another was being bashed yesterday. Just a good reminder to handle safely, don't be careless, and take to a gunsmith if you are like my brother and have parts left over after reassembly ;)
"I never see failure as failure but as the negative feedback I need to change course in the right direction" - Tom Hopkins
Post by: Biggerhammer on April 19, 2015, 01:22:01 PM
:tup:
Post by: mountainman on April 19, 2015, 02:59:48 PM
..... Just a good reminder to handle safely, don't be careless..
:yeah:
Post by: Seahawk12 on April 19, 2015, 04:34:23 PM
Post by: 2labs on April 19, 2015, 04:38:42 PM
I get pretty fed up with how litigious our society has become, but Winchester should be sued for a substantial dollar amount for letting garbage like that out the door. That's ridiculously irresponsible.
Remington buried it for years, and was aware of the problem. I think their only recall is on the new x mark pro.
Post by: RadSav on April 19, 2015, 04:56:03 PM
I get pretty fed up with how litigious our society has become, but Winchester should be sued for a substantial dollar amount for letting garbage like that out the door. That's ridiculously irresponsible.Remington buried it for years, and was aware of the problem. I think their only recall is on the new x mark pro.
I think Remington pulled every single bolt gun out of Sportsman's Warehouse last year, didn't they?
Post by: jackelope on April 19, 2015, 05:08:51 PM
Post by: magnumb on April 19, 2015, 06:39:00 PM
Remington buried it for years, and was aware of the problem. I think their only recall is on the new x mark pro.
[/quote]
I believe that it was substantially more than a few years. More like a decade or more.....if my memory serves me.
I'm not aware of how long the other manufacturers delayed doing anything about their firearms issues, but knowing that Remington was made well aware of these numerous complaints so many years before doing anything about it, did not endear them to me.
As far as the post that used 'bashing/bashed and or slamming' 4x's as a description of what I and a few other members were doing to Remington, I'd suggest that saying that "the Thompson single shot still has the same issue they always have....." is more 'bashing/slamming' than just a few here trying to inform members of a single issue that Remington had which currently they've tried to correct.
I wasn't going to mention the fact earlier that Remington failed to act on this obvious and dangerous problem for over a decade, and I didn't until that door was so conveinently opened for me by a few here, as it then might have been construed as bashing. But since everybodies trying to lump each manufacturer of firearms in the same catagory as having had issues and recalls in the past, it is now only fair to those other manufacturers to mention Remington's irresponsible decision not to act much sooner shouldn't be a blanket statement about all other firearm manufacturers not so irresponsible.
Informing and 'bashing' have little to do with one another, unless of course, someone can finally offer a valid reason why anyone here or the hundreds that experienced the M700 trigger issue, would take the time and effort to report the same exact, dangerous circumstances that finally brought about Remington's decision to recall their entire inventory.
Again.....if it can be shown that any information I or others have offered in regards to this Remington issue was either false or not well intended (bashing/slamming Remington), please feel free to point that out. If not, what reasons can you conjure up as to why I or hundreds of others would do so..........?
Post by: RadSav on April 19, 2015, 09:09:25 PM
Rad-What's the issue Thompson Center still has with all their single shots?
On Thompson guns with an external hammer. If the trigger is touched before the hammer is cocked the hammer does not latch. So if you slide your thumb off the back of the hammer it will fall forward and touch off the round. My personal experiences have only been with the Contender pistol, but a friend of mine in PA shot himself with the rifle when the same thing happened.
I check every one I see at a shop. 30 years and I have yet to find one that does not have that problem.
Post by: Biggerhammer on April 19, 2015, 09:36:19 PM
Post by: 2labs on April 19, 2015, 09:53:42 PM
And? My factory Remington's will still remain as they are and I will continue to buy more.
Enjoy!
Post by: jackelope on April 19, 2015, 10:42:51 PM
Rad-What's the issue Thompson Center still has with all their single shots?
On Thompson guns with an external hammer. If the trigger is touched before the hammer is cocked the hammer does not latch. So if you slide your thumb off the back of the hammer it will fall forward and touch off the round. My personal experiences have only been with the Contender pistol, but a friend of mine in PA shot himself with the rifle when the same thing happened.
I check every one I see at a shop. 30 years and I have yet to find one that does not have that problem.
You may be looking at all Contenders?? My Encore doesn't do that. The trigger must be pulled in order for the hammer to contact the firing pin. I have verified that the safety feature works on mine.
Post by: magnumb on April 19, 2015, 11:03:48 PM
And? My factory Remington's will still remain as they are and I will continue to buy more.
Your right to do so..... :tup:.
As for "buying more"...........I wouldn't doubt it and by all accounts, any new Remington firearms that you buy should all now carry a completely new and redesigned trigger mechanism. You should be good to go. And if for some reason the exact same issues happen to occur with their newest trigger offering in your new rifle and the company is well aware of it ocurring repeatedly and has quite intentionally done nothing.....for years! You can likely figure on not getting a recall notice, if history counts. And many years after you've hunted with this weapon and have now handed it down to your son, you then learn that you were placed in harms way by a company, but more importantly, that you then handed that same firearm to your son believing that your gift to him was totally and unquestionably.....safe. Why wouldn't you?
Family, friend and member loyalty should always trumps 'brand loyalty'........IMHO.
Post by: RadSav on April 19, 2015, 11:06:05 PM
You may be looking at all Contenders?? My Encore doesn't do that. The trigger must be pulled in order for the hammer to contact the firing pin. I have verified that the safety feature works on mine.
Have you pulled the trigger first and then tried to cock the hammer?
That is when the trouble occurs. It's not when the hammer is already back or even part way back. The trigger, moved only a slight amount before the hammer is cocked, disengages the hammer latch and drops the safety both. It's not like the Ruger issue where there is no safety and a strike to the hammer or a slip of the thumb at half cock will fire the round. It's letting go of the hammer expecting it to stay latched and it doesn't.
I know no one should ever be pulling the trigger unless they intend to shoot. But, in my case and my friends case the trigger must have been pulled by clothing, pack buckle or something first. Then the hammer was cocked, or at least we tried to cock them! I dang near killed the dog and my friend had to have the fire department come get him out of his tree stand. He was messed up for quite some time. Bullet went in mid calf, out the ankle and then put dang near a 2" hole in the foot.
It has been about a year since I saw one in a store. So they may have finally fixed the issue. But I sure as heck am not going to buy one until I find one that does not do that. And so far I have not found one that's right. Encore or Contender.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on April 19, 2015, 11:20:53 PM
Post by: RadSav on April 20, 2015, 12:05:48 AM
All the contenders I have ever owned or played with do that. You bump the trigger or pull it then try to cock the hammer and it will just free fall and not lock back. The encore is a different beast. I am not sure about it.
I hope it has been changed. There are a few combinations I would like to have in the Encore. Neat little rifle. I just won't buy one until there is either a certified fix or they have been fixed.
Post by: Biggerhammer on April 20, 2015, 12:21:13 AM
And? My factory Remington's will still remain as they are and I will continue to buy more.
Your right to do so..... :tup:.
As for "buying more"...........I wouldn't doubt it and by all accounts, any new Remington firearms that you buy should all now carry a completely new and redesigned trigger mechanism. You should be good to go. And if for some reason the exact same issues happen to occur with their newest trigger offering in your new rifle and the company is well aware of it ocurring repeatedly and has quite intentionally done nothing.....for years! You can likely figure on not getting a recall notice, if history counts. And many years after you've hunted with this weapon and have now handed it down to your son, you then learn that you were placed in harms way by a company, but more importantly, that you then handed that same firearm to your son believing that your gift to him was totally and unquestionably.....safe. Why wouldn't you?
'Family loyalty' always trumps 'brand loyalty'........IMHO
Quite the stretch but if that works for you. :o
Post by: magnumb on April 20, 2015, 06:31:14 AM
And? My factory Remington's will still remain as they are and I will continue to buy more.
Your right to do so..... :tup:.
As for "buying more"...........I wouldn't doubt it and by all accounts, any new Remington firearms that you buy should all now carry a completely new and redesigned trigger mechanism. You should be good to go. And if for some reason the exact same issues happen to occur with their newest trigger offering in your new rifle and the company is well aware of it ocurring repeatedly and has quite intentionally done nothing.....for years! You can likely figure on not getting a recall notice, if history counts. And many years after you've hunted with this weapon and have now handed it down to your son, you then learn that you were placed in harms way by a company, but more importantly, that you then handed that same firearm to your son believing that your gift to him was totally and unquestionably.....safe. Why wouldn't you?
'Family loyalty' always trumps 'brand loyalty'........IMHO
Quite the stretch but if that works for you. :o
You consider it "quite the stretch" to possibly even consider that Remington couldn't mass produce yet another faulty trigger mechanism or that Remington wouldn't choose to do the right thing when they've obviously already shown the propensity not to do so once before and chose not to do so for many, many years or that you yourself won't be hunting with Remingtons in the future or that you never have any intention of allowing a loved one to use your Remington(s) and/or that you might actually die someday and either through your own request or just how inherited and coveted personal belongings get divided within family members, that someday your Remingtons won't be kept, passed on down and used by your loved one's......?
I certainly have no ill will towards you or yours and this simple 'heads-up' was only intended as such....just a heads-up to all those either too young to have any knowledge of these earlier documented issues or for those that might have discounted such claims for whatever reason. There is no personal agenda, incentive nor any other reason for me to do so.
I'm guessing that you're not immortal and that you are as caring, giving and as concerned for your loved one's, as I am. So no......I don't believe for one moment that any of these scenarios couldn't or wouldn't happen. Soooo......as for being "quite the stretch"......history, unfortunately, shows quite the opposite.
Good luck....
Post by: headshot5 on April 20, 2015, 06:47:18 AM
Quote
I hope it has been changed. There are a few combinations I would like to have in the Encore. Neat little rifle. I just won't buy one until there is either a certified fix or they have been fixed.
Yeah the G2 contenders and the Encore both have it fixed. The trigger will reset itself, so the only way you could have a similar instance is if you tried to cock it while manually pulling the trigger (just like any other gun). As soon as you let off the trigger it resets and the hammer will cock. You are good to go if you get a G2 contender or an Encore!
Post by: jackelope on April 20, 2015, 07:18:27 AM
You may be looking at all Contenders?? My Encore doesn't do that. The trigger must be pulled in order for the hammer to contact the firing pin. I have verified that the safety feature works on mine.
Have you pulled the trigger first and then tried to cock the hammer?
That is when the trouble occurs. It's not when the hammer is already back or even part way back. The trigger, moved only a slight amount before the hammer is cocked, disengages the hammer latch and drops the safety both. It's not like the Ruger issue where there is no safety and a strike to the hammer or a slip of the thumb at half cock will fire the round. It's letting go of the hammer expecting it to stay latched and it doesn't.
I know no one should ever be pulling the trigger unless they intend to shoot. But, in my case and my friends case the trigger must have been pulled by clothing, pack buckle or something first. Then the hammer was cocked, or at least we tried to cock them! I dang near killed the dog and my friend had to have the fire department come get him out of his tree stand. He was messed up for quite some time. Bullet went in mid calf, out the ankle and then put dang near a 2" hole in the foot.
It has been about a year since I saw one in a store. So they may have finally fixed the issue. But I sure as heck am not going to buy one until I find one that does not do that. And so far I have not found one that's right. Encore or Contender.
Huh...my Encore definitely does not do that. I've owned it 6+ years now. Must be a 1st gen Contender thing...
:dunno:
Post by: headshot5 on April 20, 2015, 07:40:24 AM
Quote
It is obvious that you have decided to discount our first hand experiences and the hundreds of other M700 owners who have reported similar experiences/AD's.......for your own reasons. Being a 'brand loyalist' is not uncommon and seems to be a popular and easy approach to take under such circumstances. What would, no doubt, be more prudent and more convincing would be for you to offer some intelligent reason (or several or any) why the huge #'s of M700 owners of years past all evidently had a bone big enough to pick with Remington that would make us and them lie about the AD's we all witnessed first hand. If I remember correctly, a few deaths were incurred, as well.
Not discounting anything, as far as other peoples personal experience. I've run a lot of M700's in my time. I've come across many that have been adjusted by the previous owner, where they are not safe. Before shooting any new gun, I strip them down and check them for function. Pretty easy to do. Go through a little testing without the chamber loaded, check if the sear engagement is correct. Make sure depressing the trigger with the safety on doesn't move any of the trigger internals. Pop the safety forward after pulling the trigger with the safety engaged. Check and make sure the gun won't discharge. Check for slam fires etc. Then load up some cartridges and go shoot it.
No gun maker is infallible. Any mechanical device can and will eventually fail. At some point, it is the owners responsibility to do a function check. If I find a trigger that cannot be made safe, I will put an aftermarket trigger in it and be good to go.
I think it is more important to teach others how to properly check a guns function, then to swear off a certain brand because it could possibly fail. I never discount 2nd hand experience, but I have enough first hand experience in this case to justify my statement above. So if anyone is scared of their gun because of the above video, let me know... I can always do my Christmas shopping now! If you don't feel comfortable checking your own gun hit up a gunsmith.
Post by: headshot5 on April 20, 2015, 07:48:59 AM
Quote
Huh...my Encore definitely does not do that. I've owned it 6+ years now. Must be a 1st gen Contender thing...
Yeah it is definitely the original contender that does this. If you cock it and lower the hammer, you cannot re-cock it without opening the action which resets the hammer block. Also if the trigger gets inadvertently pulled, it also has to have the action open to reset the block. Not the most amazing design, but originally contenders were used mostly for competition shooting where it is not as critical. I had a regular contender fail me when I was about 10 years old. Cost me a pretty nice blacktail. Luckily, you can visually check the hammer block once you figure out the mechanics of the contender. Or, you can just pop the action open and close it when you get to where you are hunting. Not the perfect fix but it works. I love the gen 1 triggers but prefer the updates in the G2's and the Encores.
Post by: Blacklab on April 20, 2015, 07:50:40 AM
That's crazy!
That's a understatement! I think I would have craped myself :twocents:
Post by: RadSav on April 20, 2015, 08:18:25 AM
Huh...my Encore definitely does not do that. I've owned it 6+ years now. Must be a 1st gen Contender thing...
:dunno:
I have definitely held Encores in the past that did it. But this is good news! Guess I need to put a shopping list together :)
Post by: magnumb on April 20, 2015, 10:31:21 AM
Anyone now scared of their remington 700's, hit me up if you want to sell. :tung:
In other words, if you believe that your Remington has the potential to have an AD based on only a few hundred complaints, numerous prior documented AD's and that it could possibly endanger you and yours, then sell them to you because all of these 'sheeple' don't know what's really true and you know definitively that these firearms are totally safe.
That isn't discounting, even mocking, the irrefutable information/experiences shared by hundreds of shooters/hunters just like you and I......?
You're welcome to your opinion, but saying that you are "not discounting anything" is clearly not believable. If everyone that's genuinely considering selling their Remington's did contact you to offer their firearms for sale as you quite voluntarily requested, you'd not honor your offer. Given that, your comment in the above quote was written only as an attempt to 'discount' the pertinent information being offered.
I 'own' what I say or promise, whether correct or not and if not, I 'own' that as well and try to make amends ASAP. I don't, however, try to portray something as other than I had initially intended in an attempt later to just save face. Nor do I appreciate those that would do so thinking that I could or should be convinced of such, only because they said so.
Post by: mountainman on April 20, 2015, 10:54:00 AM
Post by: RadSav on April 20, 2015, 10:58:54 AM
Just buy a Tikka! No recalls there..👍
So barrels blowing up is not a recall? :chuckle:
Granted Sako reacted extremely fast and it has been a while. But still...
http://www.thegunzone.com/rifles-kb.html
Glad I wasn't holding that gun when she went off!!!
Post by: headshot5 on April 20, 2015, 11:09:27 AM
Quote
In other words, if you believe that your Remington has the potential to have an AD based on only a few hundred complaints, numerous prior documented AD's and that it could possibly endanger you and yours, then sell them to you because all of these 'sheeple' don't know what's really true and you know definitively that these firearms are totally safe.
Completely untrue and not what I was implying. Yes there are Remington 700's in the world that will discharge when the trigger is not pulled. They are either improperly adjusted, or factory defective. However, with a quick change out of some parts they can be made completely safe to use, or an aftermarket trigger can be put in. Now, some people may decide a Remington 700 is not for them based on either having a Remington 700 that is defective, or if they are against how Remington as a company handled their recall.
Personally, I feel that Remington 700's are a well made rifle. Yes there is a potential for failures. Luckily they are easily diagnosed and repaired. Like all things in life, there is an inherent risk in using them. I'm not making fun of anybody by my statements. Only saying that I would like the option buy a Remington 700 from members if they decide that Remington 700's are not for them.
Once again I'm not discounting other peoples experience. If I bought one that was faulty I would be using my hard earned money to make it safe for me to shoot. I don't understand why that would trouble you. Some are as easy as properly adjusting the trigger mechanism, others require an aftermarket trigger or swapping a new trigger system in. I guess I apologize for ruffling your feathers (figure of speech I fully understand that you really don't have feathers...). :dunno:
Anyways I'm not interested in a continued debate of what I was implying, so this will be my last post in this thread, have a stellar Monday Magnumb.
Post by: magnumb on April 20, 2015, 11:10:13 AM
Just buy a Tikka! No recalls there..
So barrels blowing up is not a recall? :chuckle:
Yep..........true.
Tikka had barrel issues shortly after becoming quite popular and shortly thereafter, they issued a recall. I was lucky. Of the many serial #'s posted for this recall, none of the several T3's I owned were recalled and I had purchased most of these T3's during the same time that these recalled barrels were also manufactured.
If someone construes this as 'bashing and/or slamming'......... :dunno:.
Post by: magnumb on April 20, 2015, 11:37:22 AM
Anyways I'm not interested in a continued debate of what I was implying, so this will be my last post in this thread, have a stellar Monday Magnumb.
[/quote]
Nor I. I will just say that you and I obviously know more about the workings/nomenclature of firearms than do most firearm owners. I also have decades (over 4) of working on firearms, to include triggers. But you and I are not the norm.
By comparison, there are many more shooters/hunters that know little about working on guns than those with such skills and abilities. I get it, many just don't care and that's fine and understandable.........keeps 'smith's' in business. My concern isn't necessarily for the 'you and I's' in the shooting/hunting sport, but moreso for the other 95% or so that lacks the desire or ability to make 'bulletproof/safe/reliable' (as much as possible) their firearms.
Most US drivers never look under the hood of their own car and if they did, that's about as far as it goes. Vehicles are used by most of us many times throughout a single day.........a hunting firearm, on average, is carried a few weeks out of each year and used maybe once or twice. Why have intimate knowledge of the workings of something used so infrequently.....?
I'm know that you and I don't embrace that concept, but many more do and my simple 'heads-up' was solely an effort to inform those less knowledgable of some of the potential issues/hazards that have and could possibly arise. Nothing more.......nothing less.
You have a great day, as well...... ;)
Post by: Biggerhammer on April 20, 2015, 06:40:15 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on April 20, 2015, 06:48:35 PM
:yike: Maybe these barrels are made in China or some other country Obama wants to help out :dunno: I wanted the laugh symbol but its not that funny !Just buy a Tikka! No recalls there..👍
So barrels blowing up is not a recall? :chuckle:
Granted Sako reacted extremely fast and it has been a while. But still...
http://www.thegunzone.com/rifles-kb.html
Glad I wasn't holding that gun when she went off!!!
Post by: RadSav on April 20, 2015, 07:45:58 PM
Post by: 2labs on April 20, 2015, 07:56:33 PM
Amusing all the same. :chuckle:
Yeah. Amusing
Remington the new Yugo.
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on April 20, 2015, 08:04:01 PM
Amusing all the same. :chuckle:
Yeah. Amusing
Remington the new Yugo.
What do you recommend fine sir? How bout for custom builds?
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on April 20, 2015, 08:06:15 PM
Post by: 2labs on April 20, 2015, 08:10:45 PM
Have one go off on you twice fine sir! Better rifles now that still do Q.C. Sir.
I should say "chowder head idiots" shouldn't adjust triggers! Build your fine custom and have about 10 inches of Remington in your hand!
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on April 20, 2015, 08:18:31 PM
Yea, and model 700s are a joke!
Watch Remington under fire.
I guess he means only factory 700's maybe??
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on April 20, 2015, 08:19:40 PM
Post by: 2labs on April 20, 2015, 08:29:26 PM
Do you think the average guy comes home and plays around with the trigger?
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on April 20, 2015, 08:33:15 PM
Post by: jackelope on April 20, 2015, 09:51:59 PM
Post by: magnumb on April 21, 2015, 11:05:00 AM
99.9% of remingtons problems came from chowderhead idiots not knowing how to adjust a trigger, just sayin.....
More importantly, much more to the point and where our focus should be..........100% of Remington's past trigger issues came from their own faulty trigger design which they continued to produce, install in their rifles and quite intentionally sell to the general public as well as our military personnel for years and years after it became glaringly obvious that their trigger's were flawed and consequently were endangering people's lives. Had their triggers worked perfectly, as would be expected on perhaps the most potentially dangerous product that we can purchase over a counter, no fixes or attempt to fix said triggers would be necessary. That you or I or a very small percentage of other firearm owners choose to rework and/or jewel our triggers (and related accuracy adjustments) to better enhance certain aspects which we believe leads to better performance, is again......our choice. I and others would include handguns in this choice, as well.
Since maybe 5% (at most) of all firearm owners are so inclined, that would leave a very, very large percentage of firearm owners either disinterested or perhaps unable or unwilling for whatever reason, to perform these adjustments. The reported AD's were obviously checked for customer modifications and if found to have taken place, then they were discounted as being attributed to the stock trigger issues. Soooo.......these numerous AD's were documented using stock firearms (lock, stock, barrel and trigger). No investigative process worth considering would do otherwise.
So........no. Perfectly honest and trusting hunters and shooters purchased these firearms with the expected belief that if they employed all the possible rules of safe gun handling while using their rifles that they would have a safe, successful, trouble free, fun and memorable family/friend/hunting and shooting experience.
These were not 'chowderhead idiots' or any less or more intelligent than you or I, as you would have us all believe. These were simply hunters and shooters who bought a product from one of the most well recognized firearm manufacturers of all time. And they did so with the belief that this company would be as concerned about customer safety as much as their bottomline. They produce firearms......what more potentially dangerous item can the common person purchase? Who wouldn't believe that product safety wasn't their highest priority?
No person or company is infallible and no post of mine states or infers otherwise. It is how we deal with the unexpected that can oftentimes define us. In this regard, this Remington debacle could have been handled much more quickly and much less costly than what eventually occured. The fact that they did not take responsibility for these AD's for years and years, certainly wasn't lost on me or many others. They put out an unsafe, unreliable product, they didn't 'own it' and then some here find it totally justifiable to blame and disparage the average 'Joe' shooter/hunter for either not knowing how to make their unsafe firearm safe or just not attempting to do so.
The next time you buy a new car and drive it home and the brakes work almost all of the time, I'm sure that you'll be completely satisfied with that performance, pull into the driveway and simply and calmly proceed to both attempt to pinpoint the fault/issue and then repair it, on your own time and on your own dime. Difference is......when you find your brakes unexpectedly not working 10 yards from the stop light/sign, you have enough time to take some sort of evasive action to help minimize your dicey situation.
Have you ever been able to 'call back' a bullet....? I know that I haven't..... ;).
Post by: Biggerhammer on April 21, 2015, 11:07:39 AM
WoW!
Post by: npaull on April 21, 2015, 11:10:39 AM
Post by: magnumb on April 21, 2015, 11:24:32 AM
Just goes to show ya.... EVERY gun is constantly loaded, the safety is never on, and it is a millisecond away from going off unexpectedly. ALWAYS. If you treat them like that you'll have no regrets.
:yeah:.............exactly.
Good input.......worth the time to post and read.
Certainly much more intelligent and useful than the one word posts that add absolutely nothing, sans adding to your post count.
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on April 21, 2015, 11:28:56 AM
WoW!
WOW is right!! Grin..
Post by: mountainman on April 21, 2015, 11:32:04 AM
agreed ! (Sorry, only one word) :)99.9% of remingtons problems came from chowderhead idiots not knowing how to adjust a trigger, just sayin.....
More importantly, much more to the point and where our focus should be..........100% of Remington's past trigger issues came from their own faulty trigger design which they continued to produce, install in their rifles and quite intentionally sell to the general public as well as our military personnel for years and years after it became glaringly obvious that their trigger's were flawed and consequently were endangering people's lives. Had their triggers worked perfectly, as would be expected on perhaps the most potentially dangerous product that we can purchase over a counter, no fixes or attempt to fix said triggers would be necessary. That you or I or a very small percentage of other firearm owners choose to rework and/or jewel our triggers (and related accuracy adjustments) to better enhance certain aspects which we believe leads to better performance, is again......our choice. I and others would include handguns in this choice, as well.
Since maybe 5% (at most) of all firearm owners are so inclined, that would leave a very, very large percentage of firearm owners either disinterested or perhaps unable or unwilling for whatever reason, to perform these adjustments. The reported AD's were obviously checked for customer modifications and if found to have taken place, then they were discounted as being attributed to the stock trigger issues. Soooo.......these numerous AD's were documented using stock firearms (lock, stock, barrel and trigger). No investigative process worth considering would do otherwise.
So........no. Perfectly honest and trusting hunters and shooters purchased these firearms with the expected belief that if they employed all the possible rules of safe gun handling while using their rifles that they would have a safe, successful, trouble free, fun and memorable family/friend/hunting and shooting experience.
These were not 'chowderhead idiots' or any less or more intelligent than you or I, as you would have us all believe. These were simply hunters and shooters who bought a product from one of the most well recognized firearm manufacturers of all time. And they did so with the belief that this company would be as concerned about customer safety as much as their bottomline. They produce firearms......what more potentially dangerous item can the common person purchase? Who wouldn't believe that product safety was waaaaay above all else, their highest priority?
No person or company is infallible and no post of mine states or infers otherwise. It is how we deal with the unexpected that can oftentimes define us. In this regard, this Remington debacle could have been handled much more quickly and much less costly than what eventually occured. The fact that they did not take responsibility for these AD's for years and years, certainly wasn't lost on me or many others. They put out an unsafe, unreliable product, they didn't 'own it' and then some here find it totally justifiable to blame and disparage the average 'Joe' shooter/hunter for either not knowing how to make their unsafe firearm safe or just not attempting to do so.
The next time you buy a new car and drive it home and the brakes work almost all of the time, I'm sure that you'll be completely satisfied with that performance, pull into the driveway and simply and calmly proceed to both attempt to pinpoint the fault/issue and then repair it, on your own time and on your own dime. Difference is......when you find your brakes unexpectedly not working 10 yards from the stop light/sign, you have enough time to take some sort of evasive action to help minimize your dicey situation.
Have you ever been able to 'call back' a bullet....? I know that I haven't..... ;).
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on April 21, 2015, 11:40:23 AM
Post by: mountainman on April 21, 2015, 12:06:26 PM
I adjusted my first 700 trigger 25 years ago, sophomore year in high school in my metal shop at high school. Long ago lost count of how many 7 & 700 triggers I've adjusted. Perty easy to trip em when you flick the safety off or while closing the bolt. Ya think I left them that way?? I've got a couple on custom builds right now that work excellent, not worried about em in the least, but I'm not a chowderhead either....proving Magnumbs point..good post!
Post by: magnumb on April 21, 2015, 12:22:29 PM
I adjusted my first 700 trigger 25 years ago, sophomore year in high school in my metal shop at high school. Long ago lost count of how many 7 & 700 triggers I've adjusted. Perty easy to trip em when you flick the safety off or while closing the bolt. Ya think I left them that way?? I've got a couple on custom builds right now that work excellent, not worried about em in the least, but I'm not a chowderhead either....proving Magnumbs point..good post!
.......... :)
Sometimes they just jump in the boat!
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on April 21, 2015, 12:22:44 PM
PS, thanks Dewey
Post by: magnumb on April 21, 2015, 12:25:30 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on April 21, 2015, 12:41:35 PM
:tree1:
Post by: Gringo31 on April 21, 2015, 03:09:04 PM
Post by: RadSav on April 21, 2015, 03:57:01 PM
Post by: Windwalker on April 21, 2015, 07:46:16 PM
This is true whether the gun is unloaded, your finger is off the trigger, or if the safety is on.
Thanks curlewkiller for posting the video for us and kudos to those who posted the original video.
Mass production and quality don't always go hand in hand.
“Winchester Repeating Arms has discovered that a limited number of SXP (3˝-inch chamber) shotguns (also called the Super X Pump) may, under certain circumstances, unintentionally discharge while closing the action. Failure to return any affected shotguns for inspection and/or repair may create a risk of harm, including serious personal injury or death."
“If you own one of the following firearms, please immediately contact our Winchester Consumer Administrative Center to find out if your firearm is affected and should be returned. Please be prepared to provide the serial number of your firearm.”
Guns listed under the recall include are the Waterfowl Hunter (26- or 28-inch barrel), Black Shadow (26- or 28-inch barrel), Turkey Hunter (24-inch barrel) and Long Beard (24-inch barrel).
Do not load or fire any of these guns. For more information call 1-800-945-5372 or email sxp@winchesterguns.com.