Post by: LeviD1 on April 30, 2015, 06:08:51 PM
Thank you very much,
Levi
Post by: raydog on April 30, 2015, 06:42:29 PM
Post by: hughjorgan on April 30, 2015, 07:00:07 PM
Post by: D-Rock425 on April 30, 2015, 07:24:08 PM
Post by: bowtechian on April 30, 2015, 08:55:31 PM
Post by: nalley112 on May 01, 2015, 06:24:41 PM
Post by: steelnducks on May 03, 2015, 09:04:41 PM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on May 04, 2015, 09:46:50 AM
Post by: gilroym on May 07, 2015, 05:24:25 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on May 07, 2015, 07:13:57 AM
I tried a B-stinger last season first time using a stabilizer and didn't even notice a difference. I pulled it back off and no change to my shooting and reduced the weight of the bow and how much contact it has with branches while I'm walking in the woods.this is shocking to me and definitely not the norm.
Post by: stromdiddily on May 08, 2015, 09:36:42 AM
I tried a B-stinger last season first time using a stabilizer and didn't even notice a difference. I pulled it back off and no change to my shooting and reduced the weight of the bow and how much contact it has with branches while I'm walking in the woods.this is shocking to me and definitely not the norm.
:yeah:
Big fan of dead center archery stuff myself. Better bang for your buck IMO. I run a 10" on my hunting set up and haven't had any problems.
If you get something where you can add/remove weight on the end, buy a bunch of fender washers first to experiment with different weights...way cheaper than buying more weights, in case you don't like it.
Post by: LeviD1 on May 08, 2015, 04:26:43 PM
Post by: RadSav on May 08, 2015, 04:45:25 PM
I tried a B-stinger last season first time using a stabilizer and didn't even notice a difference. I pulled it back off and no change to my shooting and reduced the weight of the bow and how much contact it has with branches while I'm walking in the woods.this is shocking to me and definitely not the norm.
If I shot 12" groups at 20 yards I'd probably not be able to tell the difference either :tung: :chuckle::chuckle:
I'm a Sims Modular guy through and through. Love that stabilizer! Every bow I own has one set up just for it's personal attributes. And the best part is I'm supporting some dang good folks right here in the state of Washington :tup:
Post by: Smossy on May 09, 2015, 10:34:42 AM
What, makes you love this one over the others B?I tried a B-stinger last season first time using a stabilizer and didn't even notice a difference. I pulled it back off and no change to my shooting and reduced the weight of the bow and how much contact it has with branches while I'm walking in the woods.this is shocking to me and definitely not the norm.
If I shot 12" groups at 20 yards I'd probably not be able to tell the difference either :tung: :chuckle::chuckle:
I'm a Sims Modular guy through and through. Love that stabilizer! Every bow I own has one set up just for it's personal attributes. And the best part is I'm supporting some dang good folks right here in the state of Washington :tup:
Post by: Band on May 09, 2015, 04:51:55 PM
Post by: Smossy on May 09, 2015, 08:43:49 PM
I'm watching this topic with interest because my primary bow has never been as accurate as my backup bow. I always figured it was something about the bows themselves but I'm beginning to notice that my primary bow is more difficult to hold steady and it may very well be because I don't have a good stabilizer. :dunno:Its funny you say that, Im in the same boat. My 2007 Hoyt is surgical compared to my 2014 Bear; being my primary.
Post by: Band on May 09, 2015, 09:27:13 PM
I was wondering whether the amount of let off might have something to do with it. My less accurate bow has quite a bit more let off. Is that your situation as well, Smossy? :dunno:I'm watching this topic with interest because my primary bow has never been as accurate as my backup bow. I always figured it was something about the bows themselves but I'm beginning to notice that my primary bow is more difficult to hold steady and it may very well be because I don't have a good stabilizer. :dunno:Its funny you say that, Im in the same boat. My 2007 Hoyt is surgical compared to my 2014 Bear; being my primary.
Post by: dscubame on May 09, 2015, 09:30:20 PM
Post by: RadSav on May 10, 2015, 01:14:15 AM
I'm a Sims Modular guy through and through. Love that stabilizer! Every bow I own has one set up just for it's personal attributes. And the best part is I'm supporting some dang good folks right here in the state of Washington :tup:What, makes you love this one over the others B?
First: Quality is outstanding. I hate spending money for a stabilizer just to have it wobble all over and rattle loose all the time.
Second: Customizable. All different configurations, lengths, weights and weight distribution options. Some bows balance better than others. Some like long stabilizers with lots of weight, others like less weight and distribution closer to the bow. Sims Modular let's you pick the best fit for the bow you have.
Third: Only stabilizer I have ever used that actually reduces felt vibration. Many claim to, but so many fail to do so. Plenty of Navcom copies out there. Most are nothing but decoration. Navcom is the real deal!
Fourth: The people! You aren't going to find more fun and enjoyable people in the industry than the Sims folks. Good Washington family supporting good Washington families! What's not to like about that?
I can be rather anal retentive at times. All the time...if you ask my wife! >:( To me there is absolutely no way I am shooting a bow without a stabilizer. Some say they see no difference. I think those folks must have never used a good stabilizer before. Maybe they should try a Sims Modular :dunno: I'd rather hunt without a sight than shoot without a good stabilizer!
Post by: RadSav on May 10, 2015, 01:26:36 AM
I was wondering whether the amount of let off might have something to do with it. My less accurate bow has quite a bit more let off. Is that your situation as well, Smossy? :dunno:I'm watching this topic with interest because my primary bow has never been as accurate as my backup bow. I always figured it was something about the bows themselves but I'm beginning to notice that my primary bow is more difficult to hold steady and it may very well be because I don't have a good stabilizer. :dunno:Its funny you say that, Im in the same boat. My 2007 Hoyt is surgical compared to my 2014 Bear; being my primary.
High let-off can create troubles. However, most of the time tuning, grip shape and brace height are the trouble spots.
So many folks feel that adding speed and price to a bow equates to better. That is rarely the case! You have to sacrifice something for that speed. And you almost always pay more for that speed. In some designs the speed comes from a more radical cam - tougher to draw and not as smooth. These cams are also the most sensitive to tuning issues. Other bows bring you increased speed by lowering the brace height. This bow is less steady (especially in a parallel limb model) and it leaves less room for error in contacting clothing. You basically sacrifice shootability for the extra 5-10 fps.
There is a reason top target shooters creep tune, shoot high brace heights and bows with a particular type of grip over hot shot record breaking speed bows. Speed sells bows - Accuracy wins trophies!
Post by: Smossy on May 10, 2015, 05:11:02 AM
I think the letoff on each bow are about the same @75%I was wondering whether the amount of let off might have something to do with it. My less accurate bow has quite a bit more let off. Is that your situation as well, Smossy? :dunno:I'm watching this topic with interest because my primary bow has never been as accurate as my backup bow. I always figured it was something about the bows themselves but I'm beginning to notice that my primary bow is more difficult to hold steady and it may very well be because I don't have a good stabilizer. :dunno:Its funny you say that, Im in the same boat. My 2007 Hoyt is surgical compared to my 2014 Bear; being my primary.
I tried to lookup specs and that's what I could find.
Just realised my secondary bow is actually a 2005 Hoyt Ultrasport with Zr100 cams. So its even older then I thought.
Could be what Rads talking about with the fps thing. All bows seem to havr potential to be super accurate but with 50-70fps faster ibo from my bear seems like its creating more problems. I'm still trying to get it honed it and its been a long dreadful road.
Post by: Smossy on May 10, 2015, 05:16:55 AM
Kinda got me sold buddy as always. Your descriptiveness when it comes to products outways the wow factor when it comes to style :chuckle: I guess we can't always go for a sexy bow, or does this modular come in an orange? Hah. Might havr to buy two of these to throw on the bows. I've been using the Trophy Ridge Static 9". I like it but I'm open for improvement. I'd like to have a more forward weighted stabilizer.I'm a Sims Modular guy through and through. Love that stabilizer! Every bow I own has one set up just for it's personal attributes. And the best part is I'm supporting some dang good folks right here in the state of Washington :tup:What, makes you love this one over the others B?
First: Quality is outstanding. I hate spendingn money for a stabilizer just to have it wobble all over and rattle loose all the time.
Second: Customizable. All different configurations, lengths, weights and weight distribution options. Some bows balance better than others. Some like long stabilizers with lots of weight, others like less weight and distribution closer to the bow. Sims Modular let's you pick the best fit for the bow you have.
Third: Only stabilizer I have ever used that actually reduces felt vibration. Many claim to, but so many fail to do so. Plenty of Navcom copies out there. Most are nothing but decoration. Navcom is the real deal!
Fourth: The people! You aren't going to find more fun and enjoyable people in the industry than the Sims folks. Good Washington family supporting good Washington families! What's not to like about that?
I can be rather anal retentive at times. All the time...if you ask my wife! >:( To me there is absolutely no way I am shooting a bow without a stabilizer. Some say they see no difference. I think those folks must have never used a good stabilizer before. Maybe they should try a Sims Modular :dunno: I'd rather hunt without a sight than shoot without a good stabilizer!
Post by: RadSav on May 10, 2015, 06:46:56 AM
I think the letoff on each bow are about the same @75%
I tried to lookup specs and that's what I could find.
Just realised my secondary bow is actually a 2005 Hoyt Ultrasport with Zr100 cams. So its even older then I thought.
Could be what Rads talking about with the fps thing. All bows seem to havr potential to be super accurate but with 50-70fps faster ibo from my bear seems like its creating more problems. I'm still trying to get it honed it and its been a long dreadful road.
How fast do you think that Bear is!! :chuckle:
IBO specs are 45 fps different. Also the limbs are ZR-100. Cam is the original Cam 1/2. The new Bear cam is more critical in tune. The old Hoyt is longer and has a slightly higher brace height. That is bound to have some effect. Speed itself is more critical to arrow tune even if it's not a 70 fps difference.
Have you measured the two bows draw lengths? Often times when I struggle with a new bow I find that even though the cam says it is the same draw length the one I struggle with is a little longer than what my old proven bows are.
Post by: RadSav on May 10, 2015, 06:52:39 AM
I guess we can't always go for a sexy bow, or does this modular come in an orange? Hah.
No, but it does come in Muddy Girl :tung:
Post by: Smossy on May 10, 2015, 06:57:05 AM
Lol ibo on bear is 340ish. The hoyt I assumed was 280ish.I think the letoff on each bow are about the same @75%
I tried to lookup specs and that's what I could find.
Just realised my secondary bow is actually a 2005 Hoyt Ultrasport with Zr100 cams. So its even older then I thought.
Could be what Rads talking about with the fps thing. All bows seem to havr potential to be super accurate but with 50-70fps faster ibo from my bear seems like its creating more problems. I'm still trying to get it honed it and its been a long dreadful road.
How fast do you think that Bear is!! :chuckle:
IBO specs are 45 fps different. Also the limbs are ZR-100. Cam is the original Cam 1/2. The new Bear cam is more critical in tune. The old Hoyt is longer and has a slightly higher brace height. That is bound to have some effect. Speed itself is more critical to arrow tune even if it's not a 70 fps difference.
Have you measured the two bows draw lengths? Often times when I struggle with a new bow I find that even though the cam says it is the same draw length the one I struggle with is a little longer than what my old proven bows are.
You should just come by one day and me n Beck will provide dinner and we can play bows. :tup: No one around me knows anything about bows and I'm almost tired of picki g your brain on here.
Post by: RadSav on May 10, 2015, 07:21:32 AM
Lol ibo on bear is 340ish. The hoyt I assumed was 280ish.
You should just come by one day and me n Beck will provide dinner and we can play bows. :tup: No one around me knows anything about bows and I'm almost tired of picki g your brain on here.
Your Hoyt Specs incase you wanted them:
Axle to Axle : 35-1/2"
Brace Height : 7-1/4"
Mass Weight : 3.9 lbs
Effective Let Off : n/a (I think it is closer to 65%)
IBO Speed : 295 fps
Sure wish we could find the time to get up there and play bows. We've sure enjoyed the time with you two. Jeremiah isn't too far away. Neither is Denton at Rock Creek - Though this time of year I expect he is getting busy! Did you ever reach out to "Come Get Some"? Haven't seen him on here in awhile, but that dude knows his stuff (even if he is a brainwashed Hoyt guy :chuckle:). Seemed generous with his time too!
Post by: Band on May 10, 2015, 10:27:38 AM
Speaking of grip, that's another thing that makes me wonder. My original (and now backup) bow, a Reflex Excursion has a much larger grip then my primary bow, a Diamond Outlaw. The Outlaw's grip is much narrower and seems less stable when holding at full draw - it can wave side to side at draw, especially in windy conditions.I was wondering whether the amount of let off might have something to do with it. My less accurate bow has quite a bit more let off. Is that your situation as well, Smossy? :dunno:I'm watching this topic with interest because my primary bow has never been as accurate as my backup bow. I always figured it was something about the bows themselves but I'm beginning to notice that my primary bow is more difficult to hold steady and it may very well be because I don't have a good stabilizer. :dunno:Its funny you say that, Im in the same boat. My 2007 Hoyt is surgical compared to my 2014 Bear; being my primary.
High let-off can create troubles. However, most of the time tuning, grip shape and brace height are the trouble spots.
Post by: LeviD1 on May 10, 2015, 11:46:58 AM
Speaking of grip, that's another thing that makes me wonder. My original (and now backup) bow, a Reflex Excursion has a much larger grip then my primary bow, a Diamond Outlaw. The Outlaw's grip is much narrower and seems less stable when holding at full draw - it can wave side to side at draw, especially in windy conditions.I was wondering whether the amount of let off might have something to do with it. My less accurate bow has quite a bit more let off. Is that your situation as well, Smossy? :dunno:I'm watching this topic with interest because my primary bow has never been as accurate as my backup bow. I always figured it was something about the bows themselves but I'm beginning to notice that my primary bow is more difficult to hold steady and it may very well be because I don't have a good stabilizer. :dunno:Its funny you say that, Im in the same boat. My 2007 Hoyt is surgical compared to my 2014 Bear; being my primary.
High let-off can create troubles. However, most of the time tuning, grip shape and brace height are the trouble spots.
You should add some grip tape to make it however wide it feels most comfortable.
Post by: Band on May 10, 2015, 12:14:24 PM
Post by: RadSav on May 10, 2015, 02:37:35 PM
Reflex Excursion:
Axle to Axle : 34.5″
Brace Height : 8-3/8”
Mass Weight : 3.0lbs
Effective Let Off : 75%
IBO Speed: 295 fps
Diamond Outlaw:
Axle-to-axle length: 32.00"
Brace Height: 7.0"
Mass weight: 3.8 pounds
Let-off: 80%
IBO Speed: 330
1-3/8 brace height and 2.5" in length is not insignificant. Riser geometry can make a difference too - unless you are an ArcheryTalk expert know-it-all. ;)
When we spend a good amount of time with a certain bow we begin to anticipate the shot. When things change dramatically from one bow to another sometimes we can be slow to adapt. With perfect form, release and follow-thru it shouldn't make a difference. Unfortunately few of us are trophy class shooters. A good stabilizer can slow our reaction and anticipation down just enough to get us into a new rhythm and make our adaptability quicker. The Diamond bows I have shot with that riser design seemed to like a reasonable amount of weight positioned out in front of the limb bolts. Very much like the Bear Truth2 models I shoot so well.
Post by: Band on May 10, 2015, 05:42:23 PM
Post by: RadSav on May 10, 2015, 06:09:48 PM
Are there a couple of specific stabilizer models you would recommend for the Outlaw, Rad?
None that are very inexpensive. I used the longer Sims and placed the majority of the modules at the very end. Very similar to how D-Rock uses his on his target bow. B-Stinger is another that should work well on that bow...if you don't mind carrying around a stool attached to the bow ;)
Post by: bowtechian on May 10, 2015, 07:03:21 PM
Have you tried a chrono too see your actual bow speed?Lol ibo on bear is 340ish. The hoyt I assumed was 280ish.I think the letoff on each bow are about the same @75%
I tried to lookup specs and that's what I could find.
Just realised my secondary bow is actually a 2005 Hoyt Ultrasport with Zr100 cams. So its even older then I thought.
Could be what Rads talking about with the fps thing. All bows seem to havr potential to be super accurate but with 50-70fps faster ibo from my bear seems like its creating more problems. I'm still trying to get it honed it and its been a long dreadful road.
How fast do you think that Bear is!! :chuckle:
IBO specs are 45 fps different. Also the limbs are ZR-100. Cam is the original Cam 1/2. The new Bear cam is more critical in tune. The old Hoyt is longer and has a slightly higher brace height. That is bound to have some effect. Speed itself is more critical to arrow tune even if it's not a 70 fps difference.
Have you measured the two bows draw lengths? Often times when I struggle with a new bow I find that even though the cam says it is the same draw length the one I struggle with is a little longer than what my old proven bows are.
You should just come by one day and me n Beck will provide dinner and we can play bows. :tup: No one around me knows anything about bows and I'm almost tired of picki g your brain on here.
Post by: Sliverslinger on May 10, 2015, 07:15:52 PM