Post by: Bru14 on January 05, 2009, 07:16:35 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on January 05, 2009, 08:23:31 PM
Post by: heavy hauler on January 05, 2009, 08:24:07 PM
Post by: 270Shooter on January 05, 2009, 08:28:52 PM
They can't shoot them in the feed pit from dec. 15 to march 15. I think.
Post by: FrozenWaterfowl on January 05, 2009, 08:37:06 PM
Post by: 700xcr on January 05, 2009, 09:43:54 PM
Post by: skybusterbo on January 05, 2009, 10:06:48 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on January 06, 2009, 09:01:09 PM
Post by: nwhunter on January 06, 2009, 09:35:10 PM
Post by: NoBark on January 06, 2009, 10:20:56 PM
Couple of things as I see it. I think one of the things that really gets me burning on this issue is that in America we are all suppose to be equal. Yet it is very obvious that there is nothing equal in this equation.
Secondly, in the larger picture, a few tribal harvests is not much of a drop in the bucket. BUT, when it's a few guys killing for themselves and every family member they can claim, all at the same time, (read 10 deer in the back of a pick-up) it just becomes UGLY.
Someday they will screw up and do something so totally offensive in the publics eye that so much pressure comes to bear on them that they will find the guts to actual
clamp down on the ones doing this..............either that or all hunting will be banned because of it .
Good night, and good luck.... :(
Post by: Big Jim Jr on January 07, 2009, 03:51:59 PM
Post by: boneaddict on January 07, 2009, 04:03:15 PM
actually wow to what you just posted. GOOD thoughts and also to them. Can't they still get nailed from shooting from the road if its off the rez. Also, funny thing about this ceded crap. I don't think elk were native to the yakimas, trying to figure out where they get hunting rights on them :dunno:
Post by: buck470 on January 07, 2009, 04:17:06 PM
I'd stay to the Members of this site, Reach out, Somebodys got to know some lawyers, Congressmen, etc. who could give some Valid starting points.
Let's not just sit and Bitch, Lets kick some A**!
Anything from following these guy's with a video camera, to signing a Petition, Calling a Congress Person. Someones got to apply the Heat, How many members are on this site? Good starting Point?
Post by: HawkenBob on January 07, 2009, 04:20:30 PM
The problem with enforcment is its on a state level. The Natives are on a federal level and will get the option to police there own.
Even when the state threatens or tries to screw them out of what they "have had" as part of there allocation, they threaten with a federal suite. and the state backs down cause that costs big bucks.
Anybody ever hear what happened to the whalers out of season and treaty in NB? Exactly...
I've seen it all on the fishing side, now I get to see it here too. Its flat f'in SUKS!
Post by: HawkenBob on January 07, 2009, 04:27:26 PM
So there ya go. Some huge organization needs to be started and every friggen hunter would need to join as well as pitch in with funds. I dont know how much funds but even CCA cant take on the fishing side and there 8000 members strong at 25 bucks a member. Coarse thats barely enough to talk to a lawyer seriously about that kind of case.
Post by: Big Jim Jr on January 07, 2009, 04:31:08 PM
Post by: nwhunter on January 07, 2009, 05:33:56 PM
Post by: NoBark on January 07, 2009, 05:41:21 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on January 07, 2009, 05:51:13 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 07, 2009, 06:04:11 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on January 07, 2009, 06:45:26 PM
Post by: popeshawnpaul on January 07, 2009, 07:20:18 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 07, 2009, 07:24:55 PM
Sorry, I would love to go argue that case but I don't think you are going to change the Boldt decidion... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boldt_Decision (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boldt_Decision)
Like I said it takes and act of congress to change it, it aint going to happen. Sadly its going to come down to one of these natives being shot or beaten to death by some pissed off person after they kill an animal.
Post by: boneaddict on January 07, 2009, 07:51:33 PM
Post by: farmin4u_98948 on January 07, 2009, 08:00:28 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on January 07, 2009, 08:02:50 PM
Post by: GoPlayOutside on January 07, 2009, 08:06:15 PM
Post by: 700xcr on January 07, 2009, 08:11:52 PM
Post by: Big Jim Jr on January 07, 2009, 08:22:48 PM
Post by: rougheye on January 07, 2009, 08:27:55 PM
Post by: logger on January 07, 2009, 08:40:01 PM
Post by: NCWCracker on January 07, 2009, 09:01:31 PM
I like it....better than just complaining for sure.
You should send the ideas to your State Rep - and ask him/her to pass it on to Mike Armstrong, who is now leading up Indian Affairs.
Have you looked at this topic under the "WDFW Announcements, hunting politics, and Activism"?
Post by: NCWCracker on January 07, 2009, 09:09:49 PM
Also, if you like - read this letter I have sent to my local area State Politicians, including Rep. Mike Armstrong. If you like it, put your name on it and send it also. Flood them with your discontent, and they will be more inclined to act. Here it is,
Hello XXXXXXX,
The tribal hunting abuses of the Colockum elk herd continue to get worse every year. Recently an article was published by John Fulwiler on “The Reel News”; December 2008 issue. It has been posted on Hunt Washington in a discussion, and many of us in this State are fed up with the abuses and mis-management of the herd, and would like to see changes ASAP.
The WDFW appears to be more concerned with political correctness than with trying to right a wrong. The Yakama Tribe is not working to control hunting abuses on elk in the Colockum. The WDFW Elk Mgt. statement for the Colockum area indicates that the Yakama Tribe is to assist in the management and share harvest data, etc. From what I’ve heard, this is not happening.
Please take the time to read John Fulwiler’s article. It is indicated that close to 50 branched antlered bulls were harvested by the Yakama’s from the Colockum area in 2008. The total number of elk harvested by them must be a substantially greater number.
The Yakama’s website in regard to hunting this area indicates that they are to hunt for sustenance and ceremonial purposes only.
As taken direct from their website (http://www.ynwildlife.org/pdf/yakamahuntingrights.pdf)
“Members of the Yakama Nation, and other tribes, hunt throughout their
ancestral lands in Washington State for the purpose of gathering meat for sustenance and ceremonial purposes. It is not the custom of tribal people to hunt or gather food for sport or leisure, but is instead a traditional and cultural activity that is needed to provide food for funerals, memorials, name givings, food feasts, and family dinners. On the reservation and ceded areas, these laws and rights override the jurisdiction of the Washington State Department of Fish & Wildlife.”
We all know that they are more often hunting for trophy elk and very often, selling the antlers for substantial profit. There are rumors of many of them driving closed roads, hunting on the Game Reserve, and hunting at night. These activities are clearly; legally, ethically, and morally wrong.
I know that if someone were to document this abuse of treaty rights with video, and slip it to the mass media, there would be huge public outcry. What also needs to be done, because it sounds to me like the Yakama’s treaty rights in regard to hunting the area will not likely go away; is that WDFW and the Yakama’s need to be forced to sit and come up with a workable, enforceable management plan for that area which will stop the blatant tribal hunting abuses. Currently, they are threatening this resource for everyone – it is a sickening thought.
Something needs to be done before the herd is completely decimated, and/or someone takes matters into their own hands against these tribal hunters. We as taxpayers are paying to have that area’s game managed, and currently, the Yakama Tribal hunters are undermining all efforts in a very significant way. What are your suggestions for solving this problem? What would you suggest to best draw attention to this issue?
Sincerely,
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 07, 2009, 09:42:44 PM
Post by: boneaddict on January 07, 2009, 09:49:20 PM
Can't recall the post but the short of it I was at the feeding station early one morning and a van full of tribal members pulled up and were going to shoot that big bull thats on here. They tried pulling out their .270 and I said oh no you are not and they said it was their right and essentially I said over my dead body. I can't even remember if there were 5 of them or 7. I was good to go. Finally a woman showed up with her kid and they lost interest in scalping this white man. What really pisses me off is I know they had to have been watching out of their warm office but did nothing. I could have let them shoot I guess and then took a bunch of pics, but that elk wasn;t going to die by their hands that day.
Post by: fishunt247 on January 07, 2009, 09:54:59 PM
Bone, way to stand up.
Post by: boneaddict on January 07, 2009, 09:58:42 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on January 07, 2009, 10:27:35 PM
Post by: boneaddict on January 07, 2009, 10:29:45 PM
Post by: buck470 on January 08, 2009, 09:27:41 AM
Post by: Wenatcheejay on January 08, 2009, 10:20:58 AM
Is it fair to say that while some of what the Tribes want is fair; Some of their hunting rights are fair? Sure. However, the big gripe that we have with our people and our government is that when we break the law, if we were to step outside of the legal taking of game even by accident, we stand to loose our trucks, our guns, everything. Plus thousands of dollars in fines and legal fees plus loss of hunting rights in many States. (Even over stupid trout.) But, if they get caught outright intentionally poaching they might get a talking to, or at worst hunting rights suspended for one year. I think the place to work from is to try to hold the Tribes to a higher standard. If they will not, then what needs to be stated is that they do not hold game in the same regard as we do, publicly. Tim Eyman was just another blowhard until he started publicly exposing tax and government waste. He changed a lot for better or worse. That is my bitch, it is the apathy to take any real action against even those that they call a poacher. That might be a place to start. When one of theirs is caught we should try to show up at their "tribal trial." I'd imagine we would be tossed out, but it would be interesting. If anyone gets word of one, post it.
Post by: hornhunter on January 08, 2009, 06:40:08 PM
We need to video the Treaty Abuse when we see it. Deliver the video to all the news stations. Better yet get some Yakima newspaper guy who is looking for a story...........
Post by: bowhuntin on January 08, 2009, 06:53:48 PM
Is it fair to say that while some of what the Tribes want is fair; Some of their hunting rights are fair?
That is funny because in the treaty they signed it says that hunting is a privilege not a right. They have a right to fish but not hunt. The courts screwed this sh*t up because they ruled that when it came to the treaty that privilege meant the same as right when you were reading it. That is total BS if you ask me. The indians in our region survived off of fishing not hunting. I am sure that is why they didn't write in the treaty they had a right to hunt because fishing made up most of their diet NOT venison. They especially have no right to hunt elk that were brought in by sportsman and thrived because of conservation and game management.
Post by: norsepeak on January 11, 2009, 01:57:48 PM
Post by: NWTFhunter on January 11, 2009, 02:02:10 PM
Post by: norsepeak on January 11, 2009, 02:06:26 PM
Post by: runamuk on January 11, 2009, 07:37:53 PM
I have a couple questions....ok I actually have a lot more than that but will stick to few...
1. Is it legal or illegal to have a loaded weapon in your vehicle?
2. Aren't there laws regarding shooting across, and within certain distances of roads?
3. Are enforcement officers of any sort even allowed to give tribal members tickets?
Take the hunting out of the equation and what I want to know is are tribal members allowed to break laws because they do not apply? Can they drive drunk without fear of a ticket? Or run red lights? Or park where ever they wish?
I guess I just don't see how they can violate regular laws that even non hunters must follow related to firearms and shooting :dunno: :dunno:
Post by: HardCorpsHuntr on January 11, 2009, 07:51:48 PM
This whole thing is so confusing.
I have a couple questions....ok I actually have a lot more than that but will stick to few...
1. Is it legal or illegal to have a loaded weapon in your vehicle?
2. Aren't there laws regarding shooting across, and within certain distances of roads?
3. Are enforcement officers of any sort even allowed to give tribal members tickets?
Take the hunting out of the equation and what I want to know is are tribal members allowed to break laws because they do not apply? Can they drive drunk without fear of a ticket? Or run red lights? Or park where ever they wish?
I guess I just don't see how they can violate regular laws that even non hunters must follow related to firearms and shooting :dunno: :dunno:
1. Depends. Wa. you need a CWP. No long guns can be loaded....except LEO's and the sorts.
2. Yeap
3. State Routes and Interstate highways that go through the reservation are paid by us (WSDOT.) Tribal members are exempt from infractions by troopers and deputies (speeding, seatbelt, no insurance, littering, open container, and most all of the rules of the road.), but they are not exempt from citations (DUI, reckless driving, Neg. 2nd., DWLS/R, etc.) and felony's.
Post by: heavy hauler on January 11, 2009, 09:20:48 PM
Post by: stumprat on January 11, 2009, 09:22:01 PM
if they are actual sovern nations as they claim, why cant we put a fence along there borders like mexico?this might cause them to negotiate some with us on there tribal "rights" bs.
Best idea I've heard yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: runamuk on January 11, 2009, 09:29:27 PM
Quote
3. State Routes and Interstate highways that go through the reservation are paid by us (WSDOT.) Tribal members are exempt from infractions by troopers and deputies (speeding, seatbelt, no insurance, littering, open container, and most all of the rules of the road.), but they are not exempt from citations (DUI, reckless driving, Neg. 2nd., DWLS/R, etc.) and felony's.
Does this apply off the rez? I knew that on rez things are handled by tribal police but what about off the rez?
Post by: dbllunger on January 11, 2009, 09:32:50 PM
Post by: heavy hauler on January 11, 2009, 09:34:08 PM
Post by: mossback91 on January 11, 2009, 09:36:23 PM
do we have to pay if we get tickets on the rez?I believe so........but most tribal cops I have ran into dont give a rats ass about giving you a ticket!! but there are a few that doo!!.....from what ive heard......but I have never had a run in with those ones! :IBCOOL:
Post by: colvilletacoma on January 11, 2009, 09:55:42 PM
Post by: runamuk on January 11, 2009, 10:02:06 PM
It doesn't make sense that just because they can hunt means they can also violate other laws in the process :dunno: :dunno:
I've also heard that illegals poaching can't be cited etc, so have all the enforcement officers just accepted the "Our hands are tied" line of thinking? I mean I realize it may be hard to make progress but doing nothing at all does just that nothing :dunno:
Post by: colvilletacoma on January 11, 2009, 10:04:15 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on January 11, 2009, 10:08:00 PM
Post by: colvilletacoma on January 11, 2009, 10:13:30 PM
Post by: runamuk on January 11, 2009, 10:20:58 PM
A poacher on our reservation that got caught a year ago got his hunting rights taken away for 5 years and his gun taken away. Another poacher was caught this year that shot a bull moose and the same if not worse is going to happen to him. Both were tribal members
This is good to hear. Makes me think it is only some tribes not stepping up :dunno:
Post by: ICEMAN on January 11, 2009, 10:21:19 PM
I have heard of it, I know it occurs. Many, many tribal members are adjudicated at tribal courts. No record of tribal proceedings is ever forwarded to have any of this information added to their criminal record. For many tribal members, no criminal record even exists. This is not the norm for non-members.
Post by: colvilletacoma on January 11, 2009, 10:24:10 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on January 11, 2009, 10:25:45 PM
Post by: HardCorpsHuntr on January 11, 2009, 10:26:47 PM
"No we have to pay infractions, citations, anything just like everyone else. Trust me I had 6 speeding tickets in 1 year. Yes I carry full coverage and yes you have to pay tickets on the rez but I dont believe they go on your record for members or non-members."
The infractions you are issued by tribal police on the reservation must be responded to by all. Non-tribal LEO can not issue infractions to members on the reservation. Non-tribal LEO's can issue infraction on SR's and Istate's in the reservation to non-tribal members (most all of us). Like mentioned above, off the reservation. we're all equal (with exception to hunting and fishing obviously.)
Welcome colvilletacoma.
Post by: colvilletacoma on January 11, 2009, 10:29:08 PM
Post by: colvilletacoma on January 11, 2009, 10:30:26 PM
Post by: Grizzly95 on January 11, 2009, 10:35:08 PM
Quote
The chances of change are poor at best. In 1995 I was a wildlife biology student at WSU and came home on the weekends and volunteered to feed elk at Oak Creek with John McGowan. One weekend I'm home feeding elk up the Nile feed station and actually saw two Yakamas loading up two very nice 6pt bulls that they had killed right on the feed station on the old hay from the day before. When I pulled up in the WDFW truck, the first thing out of thier mouths was "I'm indian, here is my tribal card." then they asked me to help them load the animals in their truck. I nearly reached out the window and strangled the guy with my bare hands. Long story short, me and the county prosocutor tried to prosocute for close to 4 years, until it was finally thrown out of court. So even if you catch them breaking the law, and follow the proper route to justice, they are basically untouchable except, by long range lead! I would never do it, but I know some very pissed off rednecks, that if they were caught in the right mood, you'd find a truck with 3 dead indians in it]
Do you remember exactly where that was at? Up behind the woodshed restaurant?
Post by: bobcat on January 11, 2009, 10:35:36 PM
Whats your related field? Why is it that tribal game wardens are letting a non-member that shot a porcupine our our reservation off with a $5,000 fine and he is still complaining about it. They could of bumped it up to a federal offense which I believe is $25,000 and up to 5 years in prison. Seems like both sides get let off easy, doesnt it?
That's getting "let off easy?" :o A 5 THOUSAND dollar fine for a porcupine, not even a protected species? Did I read that right? Wow I sure wish the indian "poachers" were taken as seriously as a porcupine poacher on tribal lands!
Geez, I think I would be complaining too if I was a guy that got a $5000 fine for shooting a porcupine!
Post by: colvilletacoma on January 11, 2009, 10:38:00 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on January 11, 2009, 10:39:23 PM
Non members face federal charges for poaching on rez.
Tribal members face nothing for breaking game laws off reservation.
Lets not try to make things sound as all things are even. They are not.
Post by: colvilletacoma on January 11, 2009, 10:44:04 PM
Post by: runamuk on January 11, 2009, 10:44:53 PM
Whats your related field? Why is it that tribal game wardens are letting a non-member that shot a porcupine our our reservation off with a $5,000 fine and he is still complaining about it. They could of bumped it up to a federal offense which I believe is $25,000 and up to 5 years in prison. Seems like both sides get let off easy, doesnt it?
Hey forgot to say :hello: welcome to the site.
My interest isn't just who gets what privileges its why the heck are laws not being upheld. A poacher is a poacher and all should be treated the same, american, tribal, illegal, etc.... A law breaker is a law breaker so again the same for all. I hate to see new laws being drafted because existing ones aren't being enforced, so do we need to pressure enforcement? I think so, and actually if some tribes are cracking down on this poor behavior they also can put pressure on the tribes that are be lax......those tribes make all tribes look bad....
I get real tired of the "our hands are tied" so some legislator or special interest group decides to fix the problem with more bunk laws that only punish those who are law abiding.
The way I see it if you know someone is poaching there is a good chance they aren't following other rules so nail them on those, make their life difficult, they may not get the book thrown at them but if they keep getting busted either it may get noticed or they might give up due to it no longer being easy.
Post by: bobcat on January 11, 2009, 10:45:28 PM
That may be but the guy was let off just as easy and a tribal member would of been. Correct? If he was off the reservation and was caught by a game warden he would of been in deep *censored*.
No he would not have been "in deep *censored*" because porcupines are not a protected species, not on a state level, and not on a federal level. I've shot several of them.
Post by: colvilletacoma on January 11, 2009, 10:49:24 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on January 11, 2009, 10:51:13 PM
Post by: Grizzly95 on January 11, 2009, 10:54:27 PM
My uncle has put me on elk several time up by browns place behind the woodshed, during my season and with my tag of course. Yhe day before I watched 2 guys screw up two seperate shots at 20 yrds. Pissed the land owner off, an arrowed elk went up the hill (bad shot) so he pulled the 7mm and layed acrossed his hood and dropped it, made the kid retrieve his cow and tag it. Told himit was his own damn fault for being a crappy shot. Archery take on an elk with 1/2 a head. :dunno:
Post by: ICEMAN on January 11, 2009, 10:55:37 PM
Post by: colvilletacoma on January 11, 2009, 10:59:04 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on January 11, 2009, 11:02:08 PM
Post by: colvilletacoma on January 11, 2009, 11:04:56 PM
Post by: runamuk on January 11, 2009, 11:06:22 PM
As for endangering nearby fisherman I dont know. As for killing a whale, they have the right to do so and have been doing it for generations. They are allowed to kill one whale a year I believe
Yes BUT they went out against the tribes orders without the proper authorization... so they poached. If they would have waited it would have been done legally.
Post by: colvilletacoma on January 11, 2009, 11:11:03 PM
Post by: colvilletacoma on January 11, 2009, 11:19:34 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on January 11, 2009, 11:30:50 PM
Post by: arintime on January 12, 2009, 02:35:42 AM
Well im off to bed, got work. I Just wanted to post on 2 sides of the story on here and I appreciate everyone for being respectful. I will be deleting my account. Thanks again and good luck hunting to everyone. Hope everyone finds some big sheds this spring!
Colvilletacoma, I hope you keep your account, two sides of the story is always a benifit to read! Tribal hunters/fishers do get a bad rap, but some of them do deserve it! I know not all do, but as a non tribal fisher, I have been "caught" or "Netted" and that put me in danger. Best of luck!
Post by: buckhorn2 on January 12, 2009, 09:58:29 AM
Post by: Grizzly95 on January 12, 2009, 10:12:13 AM
Post by: popeshawnpaul on January 12, 2009, 10:23:37 AM
Post by: Grizzly95 on January 12, 2009, 10:26:01 AM
Post by: Alchase on January 12, 2009, 01:36:42 PM
Post by: Elkrunner on January 12, 2009, 02:15:06 PM
I think we should all send out a copy of NCWCrackers letter, via e-mail, won't cost us anything but a few minutes!I sent mine to the these email addresses at the fish and wildlife.
turcomt@dfw.wa.gov - public affairs office
director@dfw.wa.gov - director's office
I also sent one to state senator Ken Jacobsen. He is the chairman of the Natural Resources, Ocean and Recreation committee. You can email him on this link. http://apps.leg.wa.gov/memberemail/MailForm.aspx?Chamber=S&District=46
I am not sure if it will do anything but what are we really out if we try? It took me about 10 minutes.
Post by: heavy hauler on January 12, 2009, 05:46:46 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on January 12, 2009, 08:13:57 PM
Haha wow really? I have to get to work tomorrow to pay my taxes as well. Also thank you for keeping things civil. Im sure we will never see eye to eye but at least there isnt racism going on or things getting out of hand. I appreciate it.
Colvilletacoma, if you come back and read this, I wanted to address the racism concern.
I honestly dont think you will see folks expressing racist comments here. My gripe is exactly over the unfair treatment that all sorts of groups experience today. All I want it fairness. Plain and simple.
Post by: 12Gauge on January 17, 2009, 04:16:31 PM
My problem with the tribes hunting is this. All the treaties state "In common with" for fishing, hunting etc. "in common with" to the dictionary means "the same as" not fifty percent. So why are they hunting and fishing when the non tribes are not? Second all the treaties say the tribes will not conduct business with any other country except the US. Third, all the tribes are supposed to keep alcohol off their rezs. And then there are other terms. So, let see, all the tribes do business with other countries, have or sell booze and most of the other agreed to terms of the treaties are also broken. Why can't someone take this to court and end the treaties? They are null and void. If you have a treaty or contract with the feds and you broke it, you can bet your butt that someone will take you to court. If I had the money I would do it...
I am not Indian, but have you ever looked at bottom of treaty documents, yes I agree those words you mentioned are written there.
The men who signed their names are obviously are well educated, the Indians only left their mark, meaning they can't read or write. Common sense tells you if you can write you are most like to read as well. Here is a theory for you and which I think took place back then.
The Indians were promised their hunting rights, but when those words were placed on paper it does not say that. They were lied to in order to obtain the land in a peaceful manner.
Don't hate or bash the Indians, it is the federal government that gave them that right, So your fight must be at the federal level of government and good luck with that.
Post by: heavy hauler on January 17, 2009, 05:10:06 PM