Post by: Wetwoodshunter on June 25, 2015, 02:01:33 PM
I'm not seeing it but is there a spot that members have been posting reload recipes and the types of guns they are shooting them in. I'm going to start to work up a load for my 7mm rem for elk and mule deer and I was hoping that I could see some of the other loads that people may have already developed.
I wish I could develop a load with nosler accubonds, nosler partitions, or hornady interbonds but they seem to be out of stock everywhere. As well as a lot of the powders are currently not available. I did order some 168 grain Berger VLD Hunting/Match, 162 grain hornady SST, 154 grain SST, 140 grain Balistic Silvertip, and 140 grain Sierra Gameking HPBT. I ordered 12 of each type from bulletsamples in order to test what shoots well out of my gun before I make the next step and get a box of 100 and find out they don't shoot.
Please direct me to where I need to be looking, if there is not a thread section maybe we should make a reloading section to post loads for different purposes and calibers.
Thanks!
Post by: BULLBLASTER on June 25, 2015, 02:09:38 PM
I personally wouldnt use the 12 bullet sample packs. Sometimes it takes more than 12 bullets to grt a good idea. I would just choose one or two and buy a box. I shoot 140 grain nosler accubond/ballistic tip. They are ballistically identical one is just bonded. I havent had any trouble buying them.
Post by: jasnt on June 25, 2015, 02:11:45 PM
Post by: bobcat on June 25, 2015, 02:19:55 PM
I will say that of all the bullets you bought, none are suitable for elk hunting. Bullets may be hard to find right now, but if you're hunting elk this year you need to find something better. Just about any bullet made by Barnes would be a good choice. Or possibly look for Nosler Partitions, they're not as popular as they used to be so maybe you'll have better luck finding them.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on June 25, 2015, 02:26:58 PM
I moved this thread to "Guns & Ammo."i dont really see anything wrong with any he listed for elk. :dunno: they will all do the job. :twocents:
I will say that of all the bullets you bought, none are suitable for elk hunting. Bullets may be hard to find right now, but if you're hunting elk this year you need to find something better. Just about any bullet made by Barnes would be a good choice. Or possibly look for Nosler Partitions, they're not as popular as they used to be so maybe you'll have better luck finding them.
Post by: bobcat on June 25, 2015, 02:30:11 PM
Here's the bullet you need, and they're in stock:
www.midwayusa.com/product/344963/barnes-triple-shock-x-bullets-284-caliber-7mm-284-diameter-160-grain-hollow-point-flat-base-lead-free-box-of-50?cm_vc=ProductFinding
Post by: BULLBLASTER on June 25, 2015, 02:37:10 PM
Well for elk I like bullets that will go through shoulders if necessary and I want an exit hole as well. The bullets listed will do great on deer but in my opinion they're not elk bullets.well thats news to me and the 6-7 bull elk i have killed with 140 grain ballistic tips and accubonds.
Here's the bullet you need, and they're in stock:
www.midwayusa.com/product/344963/barnes-triple-shock-x-bullets-284-caliber-7mm-284-diameter-160-grain-hollow-point-flat-base-lead-free-box-of-50?cm_vc=ProductFinding
Didnt have much trouble with shoulders either.
Elk die like anything else with a hole in the lungs.
Post by: bobcat on June 25, 2015, 02:40:23 PM
Post by: Wetwoodshunter on June 25, 2015, 09:13:02 PM
Post by: fastdam on June 25, 2015, 09:18:41 PM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on June 25, 2015, 09:44:43 PM
Post by: xXLojackXx on June 25, 2015, 09:47:25 PM
I will say that of all the bullets you bought, none are suitable for elk hunting. Bullets may be hard to find right now, but if you're hunting elk this year you need to find something better.
I have killed animals with Berger "match" bullets, Hornady SST's (a shoulder shot on a bear), and Sierra GK's. ALL have been dead on the spot. The bear didnt take one step before it was dead and rolling down the mountain. I prefer Berger and Matrix bullets over any bullet on the market, I've also heard the long range accubonds suck on animals.
*ALL accusations are of my opinion. Therefor they are true.
Post by: Biggerhammer on June 25, 2015, 10:02:48 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on June 25, 2015, 10:25:52 PM
Prime example is my recent struggle with a box of 190gr LRAB Coachcw gave me to work up for my 300wsm. No load data for IMR 4350 but it is what I have an abundance of so off I go. Hot, med, slow. Seat em deep, seat em long. Took darn near half a box before I hit pay dirt. .1grn either way and the groups would open right up again. Gotta find the winning recipe.
Post by: jasnt on June 26, 2015, 05:34:01 AM
Ps
I've had great experience with bergers
Post by: thinkingman on June 26, 2015, 08:54:19 AM
I moved this thread to "Guns & Ammo."Agree with Bobcat, most of those bullets are not elk bullets.
I will say that of all the bullets you bought, none are suitable for elk hunting. Bullets may be hard to find right now, but if you're hunting elk this year you need to find something better. Just about any bullet made by Barnes would be a good choice. Or possibly look for Nosler Partitions, they're not as popular as they used to be so maybe you'll have better luck finding them.
Barnes or another solid are where I'd look.
140gr solid is plenty of punch.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on June 26, 2015, 09:01:59 AM
Screw Barnes. :puke::chuckle: :tup:
Who would have thunk all these buolets were no good on elk?. :hello:
Post by: 7mmfan on June 26, 2015, 09:14:34 AM
63 gr IMR4831
154 gr Hornaday Interbond OR 162 Hornaday Interbond (both seem to group equally well for me).
Both of these produce sub 3/4" groups for me if I'm doing my part :chuckle:
The plus is that they seem to group identically to the same weight SST's which are almost half the price, so I shoot SST's all summer and then send a few Interbonds down the tube right before hunting season to double check. They're always dead nuts.
I used to use 154 Hornaday Interlocks, and they grouped just as well and I killed lots of animals with them. Since I've switched to the Interbonds, I've recovered all but 1 bullet, which is something I never did with Interlocks.
The last 3 elk I've killed with Interbonds all froze on the on the first shot through the boiler room, but did not drop, requiring a follow up shot (I keep shooting until they're on the ground). The only elk I killed with an Interlock dropped in his tracks.
That's my :twocents: , hope it was helpful!
Post by: Biggerhammer on June 26, 2015, 10:08:05 AM
Screw Barnes. :puke::chuckle: :tup:
Who would have thunk all these buolets were no good on elk?. :hello:
The current administration is trying to rewrite history, must be rubbing off. :chuckle:
Post by: Wetwoodshunter on June 26, 2015, 10:35:39 PM
I talked with my friend I'll be hunting with from Montana today and he said most shots are in the 300-500 yard range where we will be. He said for him the Berger is the best of the best. That being said, I know they shed a lot of weight.
The SST I can afford to shoot and it a pretty proven round. If I can get interlocks or interbonds even better but given a shot I think if I get an accurate load i can get it done.
Post by: Biggerhammer on June 26, 2015, 11:12:31 PM
Post by: Crunchy on June 26, 2015, 11:43:52 PM
Post by: Whitpirate on June 26, 2015, 11:45:00 PM
I moved this thread to "Guns & Ammo."
I will say that of all the bullets you bought, none are suitable for elk hunting. Bullets may be hard to find right now, but if you're hunting elk this year you need to find something better. Just about any bullet made by Barnes would be a good choice. Or possibly look for Nosler Partitions, they're not as popular as they used to be so maybe you'll have better luck finding them.
I'm pretty confident I saw a Berger 168 kill an elk last season so what exactly are you basing this on?
Post by: bobcat on June 26, 2015, 11:51:17 PM
I moved this thread to "Guns & Ammo."
I will say that of all the bullets you bought, none are suitable for elk hunting. Bullets may be hard to find right now, but if you're hunting elk this year you need to find something better. Just about any bullet made by Barnes would be a good choice. Or possibly look for Nosler Partitions, they're not as popular as they used to be so maybe you'll have better luck finding them.
I'm pretty confident I saw a Berger 168 kill an elk last season so what exactly are you basing this on?
An elk can be killed with a 22 but that doesn't mean it's ideal.
Post by: Whitpirate on June 26, 2015, 11:54:18 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on June 26, 2015, 11:55:58 PM
I moved this thread to "Guns & Ammo."
I will say that of all the bullets you bought, none are suitable for elk hunting. Bullets may be hard to find right now, but if you're hunting elk this year you need to find something better. Just about any bullet made by Barnes would be a good choice. Or possibly look for Nosler Partitions, they're not as popular as they used to be so maybe you'll have better luck finding them.
I'm pretty confident I saw a Berger 168 kill an elk last season so what exactly are you basing this on?
No!!!! Say it isn't so. There is now way a Elk of any sort could be snatched from this world unless it was by some clown dressed head to foot in new Sitka Gear( Price tags still attached) with a Tikka Gassed up with some cool guy Barnes bullets. :chuckle:
Post by: Mike450r on June 27, 2015, 10:43:48 AM
Do not take someones opinion on the best bullet and use it unless of course it also happens to be the one that shoots best in YOUR rifle.
Post by: xXLojackXx on June 28, 2015, 07:18:11 AM
I moved this thread to "Guns & Ammo."
I will say that of all the bullets you bought, none are suitable for elk hunting. Bullets may be hard to find right now, but if you're hunting elk this year you need to find something better. Just about any bullet made by Barnes would be a good choice. Or possibly look for Nosler Partitions, they're not as popular as they used to be so maybe you'll have better luck finding them.
I'm pretty confident I saw a Berger 168 kill an elk last season so what exactly are you basing this on?
An elk can be killed with a 22 but that doesn't mean it's ideal.
I'm not following your logic. Either you don't have any real world experience shooting Berger bullets, or you're just reiterating what you heard on another forum. My advice would be to load some up and go kill a bear or elk. You'll be pleasantly surprised. Do they retain weight like a Barnes TSX or a Nosler Partition? No. But do they do more terminal damage than those? Yes.
Tip: do NOT hit an elk in the shoulder with a Berger or SST if avoidable. You will grenade the front quarter beyond salvage. It will definitely die, but you'll lose meat. The bear I shot with an st's out if a 300 WM had jello for a heart and lungs when I gutted it. Perfect broadside shot through the heart and lungs from 337 yards and it was game over. Bear didn't take one step, literally got knocked on it's side and I found it exactly where it was shot.
Post by: bobcat on June 28, 2015, 07:49:22 AM
Why restrict yourself like that when there are bullets available that allow you to shoot an elk anywhere? That's the logic I don't follow. Unless you hunt elk where the opportunities are so numerous that you can pass up shots all day long until you find an elk that will stand still long enough to allow for a perfectly placed bullet behind the shoulder and through both lungs. :dunno:
Post by: Bob33 on June 28, 2015, 08:11:19 AM
I'm not following your logic. Either you don't have any real world experience shooting Berger bullets, or you're just reiterating what you heard on another forum. My advice would be to load some up and go kill a bear or elk. You'll be pleasantly surprised. Do they retain weight like a Barnes TSX or a Nosler Partition? No. But do they do more terminal damage than those? Yes.You made his point. In the real world, bullets don't always hit exactly where you want them to.
Tip: do NOT hit an elk in the shoulder with a Berger or SST if avoidable. You will grenade the front quarter beyond salvage. It will definitely die, but you'll lose meat.
Post by: packmule on June 28, 2015, 08:48:19 AM
[/quote]
Do they retain weight like a Barnes TSX or a Nosler Partition? No. But do they do more terminal damage than those? Yes.
[/quote]
There is a huge difference between the TSX and Partition in terms of weight retention. The Partitions aren't designed to retain a lot of weight. Most of the ones I've recovered weigh about 60% compared to their starting weight. And they do provide A LOT of terminal damage.
Post by: magnumb on June 29, 2015, 09:12:56 AM
I have used NP's, Scirroco I's, and TSX's on just shy of 30 bulls. There were no lost animals and all certainly died. The newly introduced Scirroco's were absolutely horrible (180gr., .30 cal.) and that was after a call to Swift to ask if these bullets were 'elk worthy'. And yes.....placement was and is always my #1 priority. Horrific experience for us both as they blew apart like firecrackers immediately upon just nicking ribs and totally disinegrated on (not in) the shoulder when that shot was made after the 2 lung shots failed to have much effect at all. Then a neck shot that didn't pass all the way through w/o hitting the spine. A very confusing and disgusting experience.
This event occured after taking many bulls with the 180gr. NP's out of the 'ole 06, but as is often the case, the newer, highly touted super 'pills' just had to be a better way to go. Well........that can happen and does, but certainly not in that instance.
I was very satisfied with the NP's performance for many years, albeit, it was also the most widely used and popular big game bullet around for many, many years. It was never lost on me however, that no matter how well placed a double lunger was, I always had more blood lost meat than I thought necessary. It was and still is an expectation that most of us live with and have come to expect from any cup and core bullet. I always really hated both the extra work and the amount of meat wasted on such results.
The 'fragmenting' qualities of my PDog, 50gr. V-Max's works splendidly for me. Retained bullet weight of 0% is what I want. Big game hunting bullets have come a looooong way over the last decade, but unless solid/monolithic bullets, the average retained weight of our most popular, expanding, cup and core and/or bonded big game bullets is still surprisingly low, unless 70ish% seems totally acceptable by whose ever individual standards. Where did the remaining 25-30% go.......? Everywhere those individual small particles of lead, steel and copper had enough energy to keep plowing through the meat or guts of that animal. Dead animal......you bet! Bullet perfectly mushroomed with a retained weight of 70-75% on that 'perfectly placed and always the #1 most coveted double lunger' shot..........excellent!
But since we're not always 100% ourselves on doing our job, what about those times when we hit the biggest and toughest boned area's on that animal? Well....that 70-75% of retained weight doesn't go up, it plummets to %'s that I'd never wager a bet on. But do we still harvest that animal.......sometimes. But at what and who's expense?
More importantly we're not talking about deer here, not that these #'s don't still apply, but we're talking about elk......the toughest, most tenacious, big boned, heavyweight, thick and thickly coated animal that most of us will ever have the ability to hunt. They are easily 4-5x's tougher by nature and physical attributes than that of a typical deer.
Choose a bullet that will stand up to what an elk has to offer. Choose a caliber and bullet that will penetrate an elk deeply, if not through and through, from most any responsible angle and most importantly, expect that bullet to retain most all, if not all, of it's original weight if it is recovered. The additional beauty of these 'solids' is that very little, if any, blood shot meat is lost or need be pain stakingly removed, metal fragments need not be consumed by you and your loved ones and IME, kills are very swift and give both the hunter and the animal their appropriate and sportsman like result that we all say that we want.
It upsets me to hear, "well, those solid this or that's are too expensive and I've got lots of these bullets to use up". Again.....we're talkin' about elk here and not some varmint. If a bullet costs more than another, but will do that animal justice and you've done your part at the range, buck up and give up that one beer, pack of smokes, less time at the drive through window, wash your own rig.......whatever! There's no excuse worth a chit to argue the cost of one bullet over another when our intent should be to place more consideration in the taking of an animal responsibly than merely punchin' a tag.
There's hardly a name brand, big game bullet out there that won't do a responsible job on deer on down sized game. But there are certainly bullets that will do a much better job on elk than others, all else being equal.
The 160gr. TSX was exactly the same bullet that I was going to recommend for that specific caliber.......for elk. A bit of piling on then immediately and expectedly ensued which makes little sense to me. These are our individual opinions, hopefully based on at least several years of experience hunting and killing elk. It stands to reason that any member here will get as true and as informed a response to their inquiry as that responding member has to offer. It is up to the OP to sort it all out, which is much less easily accomplished when so much contentiousness takes over.
Elk are tough, tough animals. They deserve the very best that we can offer them. You asked a great question and have been given some good answers.
Good luck!
Post by: hunterofelk on June 29, 2015, 09:57:24 AM
Post by: h20hunter on June 30, 2015, 08:19:49 AM
Post by: Wetwoodshunter on June 30, 2015, 03:54:22 PM
These will be the loads that I start out with. Thanks for all of the advice that everyone has given me so far. I hope to have some test loads made and range testing done by mid next week. My local shop says that they will have Reloader 22 in this weekend so my testing will be limited to this powder.
Post by: magnumb on June 30, 2015, 10:28:43 PM
Your buddy likely didn't seat his 140gr. TSX's deep enough. It is a very, very common mistake. I must admit that I started seating them out a bit further than Barnes suggests and it wasn't until the were seated much more deeply that I became a true believer. They are the one bullet that I have loaded that likes to be seated deep. It goes against all that my 40 years of handloading has taught me, but it is true and Barnes strongly suggests doing so, as well. Trust me.......it works and the groups in all of my rifles using TSX's , TTSX's and RL22 don't tempt me whatsover to continue to do anymore load development for any of those particular rifles. I need more new rifles.....I guess..... :tup:.
Good luck!
Post by: Wetwoodshunter on June 30, 2015, 10:35:50 PM
Post by: grundy53 on July 01, 2015, 04:43:03 AM
I used the Speer reloading book and a 139 grain GMX with RL-22. Haven't shot an elk with it yet, but am happy with range performance. Last season I hit a young cow elk in shoulder with nosler accubond.....lots of blood shot and wasted meat.Anytime you hit an elk in the shoulder there is going to be a lot of blood shot and wasted meat. It doesn't matter which bullet you use you're going to ruin meat. That is why it isn't an ideal shot.
Post by: Biggerhammer on July 01, 2015, 04:48:00 AM
I used the Speer reloading book and a 139 grain GMX with RL-22. Haven't shot an elk with it yet, but am happy with range performance. Last season I hit a young cow elk in shoulder with nosler accubond.....lots of blood shot and wasted meat.Anytime you hit an elk in the shoulder there is going to be a lot of blood shot and wasted meat. It doesn't matter which bullet you use you're going to ruin meat. That is why it isn't an ideal shot.
BINGO! :)
Post by: Windwalker on July 01, 2015, 09:26:56 AM
More info- http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/7mm+Remington+Magnum.html
Post by: hunterofelk on July 01, 2015, 09:31:38 AM
Post by: mountainman on July 01, 2015, 09:41:27 AM
I hit my 6x7 in the shoulder with a 175 Barnes. Not so much damage. Bullet angled back and missed far shoulder. Found it under hide and it was in classic x. Both animals(bull and cow) fell like an Old Testament God struck.that's how they work :tup:
Post by: grundy53 on July 01, 2015, 09:45:43 AM
I hit my 6x7 in the shoulder with a 175 Barnes. Not so much damage. Bullet angled back and missed far shoulder. Found it under hide and it was in classic x. Both animals(bull and cow) fell like an Old Testament God struck.I'm not sure you'll get that lucky every time. I've seen a lot of elk shot in the shoulder buy many different kinds of bullets. There is usually substantial damage and lost meat. It will anchor an elk but at a price. Just my 2 cents.
Post by: Jonathan_S on July 01, 2015, 10:12:19 AM
I hit my 6x7 in the shoulder with a 175 Barnes. Not so much damage. Bullet angled back and missed far shoulder. Found it under hide and it was in classic x. Both animals(bull and cow) fell like an Old Testament God struck.I'm not sure you'll get that lucky every time. I've seen a lot of elk shot in the shoulder buy many different kinds of bullets. There is usually substantial damage and lost meat. It will anchor an elk but at a price. Just my 2 cents.
I would never aim for a shoulder of any animal, with any weapon :twocents:
Post by: Jonathan_S on July 01, 2015, 10:12:40 AM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on July 01, 2015, 01:37:07 PM
These are elk we are talking about. Not elephants or Cape buffalo. Nor have I ever seen one wearing armor. :rolleyes:
Post by: jasnt on July 01, 2015, 07:16:46 PM
:yeah:I hit my 6x7 in the shoulder with a 175 Barnes. Not so much damage. Bullet angled back and missed far shoulder. Found it under hide and it was in classic x. Both animals(bull and cow) fell like an Old Testament God struck.I'm not sure you'll get that lucky every time. I've seen a lot of elk shot in the shoulder buy many different kinds of bullets. There is usually substantial damage and lost meat. It will anchor an elk but at a price. Just my 2 cents.
I would never aim for a shoulder of any animal, with any weapon :twocents:
Post by: xXLojackXx on July 02, 2015, 09:54:48 AM
I center punched a bull in the ball socket with my 7 mag at 400 ish yards with a 140 ballistic tip and it grenaded the shoulder. This was on a gut shot bull so I was wanting to just anchor it. Found the bullet in the opposite shoulder. Don't really need more than that. Especially for a bullet that apparently won't kill elk. :dunno: this bull went right down. Though there was pretty good meat loss.
These are elk we are talking about. Not elephants or Cape buffalo. Nor have I ever seen one wearing armor. :rolleyes:
Oh no you didn't :hunter:
Post by: BULLBLASTER on July 02, 2015, 04:55:18 PM
Got me. :chuckle: it's a good thing you just had a rifle built to shoot cup and cores. Might as well throw it out since cup and core bullets are no good for elk :tup:I center punched a bull in the ball socket with my 7 mag at 400 ish yards with a 140 ballistic tip and it grenaded the shoulder. This was on a gut shot bull so I was wanting to just anchor it. Found the bullet in the opposite shoulder. Don't really need more than that. Especially for a bullet that apparently won't kill elk. :dunno: this bull went right down. Though there was pretty good meat loss.
These are elk we are talking about. Not elephants or Cape buffalo. Nor have I ever seen one wearing armor. :rolleyes:
Oh no you didn't :hunter:
Post by: Stein on July 02, 2015, 05:26:52 PM
I hit my 6x7 in the shoulder with a 175 Barnes. Not so much damage. Bullet angled back and missed far shoulder. Found it under hide and it was in classic x. Both animals(bull and cow) fell like an Old Testament God struck.I'm not sure you'll get that lucky every time. I've seen a lot of elk shot in the shoulder buy many different kinds of bullets. There is usually substantial damage and lost meat. It will anchor an elk but at a price. Just my 2 cents.
I would never aim for a shoulder of any animal, with any weapon :twocents:
Everyone has their own do and don't list. I shoot Barnes as well and they make a nice, clean hole. If I saw a 6x7 that was only giving me a shoulder shot, I would take it and be glad to give up the 1-2 pounds of meat for the opportunity. TSX just don't ruin much meat as the exit holes aren't ridiculous. They also go through bone so overall I have a much better chance of getting a clean hit even if the animal isn't perfectly broadside, I misjudge the wind, elevation, distance or just flat out shoot a bit off where I wanted to.
Post by: grundy53 on July 02, 2015, 05:51:33 PM
I understand that. I would take a shoulder shot in that situation too. I'm not really against shoulder shots I just think you have to realize that your going to lose some meat. Another thing people have to realize is that when you shoot through a shoulder the bone fragments ruin a lot of meat too. So even if you have the "best" bullet your still going to lose meat.I hit my 6x7 in the shoulder with a 175 Barnes. Not so much damage. Bullet angled back and missed far shoulder. Found it under hide and it was in classic x. Both animals(bull and cow) fell like an Old Testament God struck.I'm not sure you'll get that lucky every time. I've seen a lot of elk shot in the shoulder buy many different kinds of bullets. There is usually substantial damage and lost meat. It will anchor an elk but at a price. Just my 2 cents.
I would never aim for a shoulder of any animal, with any weapon :twocents:
Everyone has their own do and don't list. I shoot Barnes as well and they make a nice, clean hole. If I saw a 6x7 that was only giving me a shoulder shot, I would take it and be glad to give up the 1-2 pounds of meat for the opportunity. TSX just don't ruin much meat as the exit holes aren't ridiculous. They also go through bone so overall I have a much better chance of getting a clean hit even if the animal isn't perfectly broadside, I misjudge the wind, elevation, distance or just flat out shoot a bit off where I wanted to.