Reloading

[packmule]

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Do they retain weight like a Barnes TSX or a Nosler Partition? No. But do they do more terminal damage than those? Yes.

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There is a huge difference between the TSX and Partition in terms of weight retention.  The Partitions aren't designed to retain a lot of weight.  Most of the ones I've recovered weigh about 60% compared to their starting weight.  And they do provide A LOT of terminal damage. 

[magnumb]

Different tools for different jobs.  Having as perfect a tool for a specific job just makes it alot easier, quicker and more enjoyable.  That and doing your homework beforehand can never make you less prepared. 

I have used NP's, Scirroco I's, and TSX's on just shy of 30 bulls.  There were no lost animals and all certainly died.  The newly introduced Scirroco's were absolutely horrible (180gr., .30 cal.) and that was after a call to Swift to ask if these bullets were 'elk worthy'.  And yes.....placement was and is always my #1 priority.  Horrific experience for us both as they blew apart like firecrackers immediately upon just nicking ribs and totally disinegrated on (not in) the shoulder when that shot was made after the 2 lung shots failed to have much effect at all.  Then a neck shot that didn't pass all the way through w/o hitting the spine.  A very confusing and disgusting experience.

This event occured after taking many bulls with the 180gr. NP's out of the 'ole 06, but as is often the case, the newer, highly touted super 'pills' just had to be a better way to go.   Well........that can happen and does, but certainly not in that instance.

I was very satisfied with the NP's performance for many years, albeit, it was also the most widely used and popular big game bullet around for many, many years.  It was never lost on me however, that no matter how well placed a double lunger was, I always had more blood lost meat than I thought necessary.  It was and still is an expectation that most of us live with and have come to expect from any cup and core bullet.  I always really hated both the extra work and the amount of meat wasted on such results.

The 'fragmenting' qualities of my PDog, 50gr. V-Max's works splendidly for me.  Retained bullet weight of 0% is what I want.  Big game hunting bullets have come a looooong way over the last decade, but unless solid/monolithic bullets, the average retained weight of our most popular, expanding, cup and core and/or bonded big game bullets is still surprisingly low, unless 70ish% seems totally acceptable by whose ever individual standards.  Where did the remaining 25-30% go.......?  Everywhere those individual small particles of lead, steel and copper had enough energy to keep plowing through the meat or guts of that animal.  Dead animal......you bet!  Bullet perfectly mushroomed with a retained weight of 70-75% on that 'perfectly placed and always the #1 most coveted double lunger' shot..........excellent! 

But since we're not always 100% ourselves on doing our job, what about those times when we hit the biggest and toughest boned area's on that animal?  Well....that 70-75% of retained weight doesn't go up, it plummets to %'s that I'd never wager a bet on.  But do we still harvest that animal.......sometimes.  But at what and who's expense? 

More importantly we're not talking about deer here, not that these #'s don't still apply, but we're talking about elk......the toughest, most tenacious, big boned, heavyweight, thick and thickly coated animal that most of us will ever have the ability to hunt.  They are easily 4-5x's tougher by nature and physical attributes than that of a typical deer.

Choose a bullet that will stand up to what an elk has to offer.  Choose a caliber and bullet that will penetrate an elk deeply, if not through and through, from most any responsible angle and most importantly, expect that bullet to retain most all, if not all, of it's original weight if it is recovered.  The additional beauty of these 'solids' is that very little, if any, blood shot meat is lost or need be pain stakingly removed, metal fragments need not be consumed by you and your loved ones and IME, kills are very swift and give both the hunter and the animal their appropriate and sportsman like result that we all say that we want.

It upsets me to hear, "well, those solid this or that's are too expensive and I've got lots of these bullets to use up".  Again.....we're talkin' about elk here and not some varmint.  If a bullet costs more than another, but will do that animal justice and you've done your part at the range, buck up and give up that one beer, pack of smokes, less time at the drive through window, wash your own rig.......whatever!  There's no excuse worth a chit to argue the cost of one bullet over another when our intent should be to place more consideration in the taking of an animal responsibly than merely punchin' a tag.

There's hardly a name brand, big game bullet out there that won't do a responsible job on deer on down sized game.  But there are certainly bullets that will do a much better job on elk than others, all else being equal.

The 160gr. TSX was exactly the same bullet that I was going to recommend for that specific caliber.......for elk.  A bit of piling on then immediately and expectedly ensued which makes little sense to me.  These are our individual opinions, hopefully based on at least several years of experience hunting and killing elk.  It stands to reason that any member here will get as true and as informed a response to their inquiry as that responding member has to offer.  It is up to the OP to sort it all out, which is much less easily accomplished when so much contentiousness takes over.

Elk are tough, tough animals.  They deserve the very best that we can offer them.  You asked a great question and have been given some good answers. 

Good luck!

 

[hunterofelk]

I used the Speer reloading book and a 139 grain GMX with RL-22.   Haven't shot an elk with it yet, but am happy with range performance.  Last season I hit a young cow elk in shoulder with nosler accubond.....lots of blood shot and wasted meat. 

[h20hunter]

Just a quick tip that I've shared before regarding reloading. I was reminded of this last night when I was throwing some cases in the tub for cleaning. Take your used dryer sheets and throw them in. They will help your media clean and come out just filthy!

[Wetwoodshunter]

So, I now have in my possession 3 1/2 boxes of bullets to play with. Nosler Accubond LR in 150 gr, Berger VLD Hunting in 168, 152 grain Hornady SST, and half a box of 140gr Barnes TSX (didn't shoot well enough in my friends rifle.)

These will be the loads that I start out with. Thanks for all of the advice that everyone has given me so far. I hope to have some test loads made and range testing done by mid next week. My local shop says that they will have Reloader 22 in this weekend so my testing will be limited to this powder.

[magnumb]

I use Rl22 in all of my WSM's (3), my 25-06 and others.  You get good velocities out of RL powders and great accuracy with good load development experience.

Your buddy likely didn't seat his 140gr. TSX's deep enough.  It is a very, very common mistake.  I must admit that I started seating them out a bit further than Barnes suggests and it wasn't until the were seated much more deeply that I became a true believer.  They are the one bullet that I have loaded that likes to be seated deep.  It goes against all that my 40 years of handloading has taught me, but it is true and Barnes strongly suggests doing so, as well.  Trust me.......it works and the groups in all of my rifles using TSX's , TTSX's and RL22 don't tempt me whatsover to continue to do anymore load development for any of those particular rifles.  I need more new rifles.....I guess..... .

Good luck! 

[Wetwoodshunter]

Thanks for the tip Magnumb.

[grundy53]

I used the Speer reloading book and a 139 grain GMX with RL-22.   Haven't shot an elk with it yet, but am happy with range performance.  Last season I hit a young cow elk in shoulder with nosler accubond.....lots of blood shot and wasted meat.

Anytime you hit an elk in the shoulder there is going to be a lot of blood shot and wasted meat. It doesn't matter which bullet you use you're going to ruin meat. That is why it isn't an ideal shot.

[Biggerhammer]

I used the Speer reloading book and a 139 grain GMX with RL-22.   Haven't shot an elk with it yet, but am happy with range performance.  Last season I hit a young cow elk in shoulder with nosler accubond.....lots of blood shot and wasted meat.

Anytime you hit an elk in the shoulder there is going to be a lot of blood shot and wasted meat. It doesn't matter which bullet you use you're going to ruin meat. That is why it isn't an ideal shot.

BINGO! 

[Windwalker]

More info-  http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/7mm+Remington+Magnum.html

[hunterofelk]

I hit my 6x7 in the shoulder with a 175 Barnes. Not so much damage. Bullet angled back and missed far shoulder.  Found it under hide and it was in classic x. Both animals(bull and cow) fell like an Old Testament God struck.

[mountainman]

I hit my 6x7 in the shoulder with a 175 Barnes. Not so much damage. Bullet angled back and missed far shoulder.  Found it under hide and it was in classic x. Both animals(bull and cow) fell like an Old Testament God struck.

that's how they work 

[grundy53]

I hit my 6x7 in the shoulder with a 175 Barnes. Not so much damage. Bullet angled back and missed far shoulder.  Found it under hide and it was in classic x. Both animals(bull and cow) fell like an Old Testament God struck.

I'm not sure you'll get that lucky every time. I've seen a lot of elk shot in the shoulder buy many different kinds of bullets. There is usually substantial damage and lost meat. It will anchor an elk but at a price. Just my 2 cents.

[Jonathan_S]

I hit my 6x7 in the shoulder with a 175 Barnes. Not so much damage. Bullet angled back and missed far shoulder.  Found it under hide and it was in classic x. Both animals(bull and cow) fell like an Old Testament God struck.

I'm not sure you'll get that lucky every time. I've seen a lot of elk shot in the shoulder buy many different kinds of bullets. There is usually substantial damage and lost meat. It will anchor an elk but at a price. Just my 2 cents.

I would never aim for a shoulder of any animal, with any weapon 

[Jonathan_S]

Okay maybe a rabbit