Post by: TriggerMike on July 07, 2015, 11:27:52 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on July 07, 2015, 11:30:52 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on July 08, 2015, 01:11:46 AM
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on July 08, 2015, 03:22:57 AM
Post by: RadSav on July 08, 2015, 03:32:33 AM
Compared to quarters w the bone on. Probably 30-40 lbs extra.
Man, you must shoot some BIG deer!!
Post by: huntnnw on July 08, 2015, 04:37:09 AM
Post by: RadSav on July 08, 2015, 04:48:07 AM
More like 20lbs max ..go pick up a 40lb dumbell and tell me 4 deer leg bones weigh 40lbs!! NO WAY
I remember reading a University (Pennsylvania I think) study where they broke down the weight distribution of deer. Average skeleton weight of a buck deer was only 12% of the live weight. Hide was 9% of live weight and blood was 5% of the live weight.
If the study was true or remotely accurate:
200# Buck - live weight =
24# of bones
18# of hide
10# of blood
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on July 08, 2015, 05:31:05 AM
More like 20lbs max ..go pick up a 40lb dumbell and tell me 4 deer leg bones weigh 40lbs!! NO WAY
25 30 40 I'm no human scale. I know the pile of bones I leave on a mule buck weighs a lot and is ocward to carry. Taking the meat off the bone allows the meat to cool WAY faster. Making the meat a lot better on the table. It also allows you to place the meat on the pack in the best way possible for long hauls or even short packs. De boning can get the meat bloody and moisten it up. Let it hang and air dry on the kill spot in the shade, after de boning. I'll never take the bones. Way to much weight that I can't eat. And for proper meat care removing the meat from the bone as soon as possible will produce better quality meat. The meat could still be warm 24 hrs after killed if not removed from the bone.
Post by: trophyhunt on July 08, 2015, 05:45:09 AM
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on July 08, 2015, 05:48:34 AM
Post by: huntnnw on July 08, 2015, 05:56:22 AM
I will play the devils advocate, even though I also bone out most our elk we get. Leaving it on the bone helps keep it clean and you don't mess up the cuts of meat, It's also easy to hang. I always feel the deboned meat stays warm when it's all stuck together in a meat bag. Keep in mind we hunt rifle elk in Idaho, it's usually cold. Not arguing here just giving another side, like I said, we bone out most the time.
:yeah: I usually debone too, but meat does stay cleaner and there is far less waste too. When you expose more surfaces of the meat to the air, dirt and ice theres more to trim off.
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on July 08, 2015, 06:07:27 AM
Post by: huntnnw on July 08, 2015, 06:10:05 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on July 08, 2015, 06:16:16 AM
you dont have the luxury of having a helping hand when deboning a bull miles in and on steep hillside...sometimes things get dirty when you are trying not to get dirt on it:yeah: you don't realize the amount of work it is when your by yourself.
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on July 08, 2015, 06:17:54 AM
you dont have the luxury of having a helping hand when deboning a bull miles in and on steep hillside...sometimes things get dirty when you are trying not to get dirt on it
I've boned animals deep in by myself on a steep hill side in the dark. I know the hardship you describe. The hide is the best method I have found. Keeping all debris off of and away from the hide so it can be used to lay the meat on while cutting. have the game bag handy to put any cut meat directly into. Keeping the meat on the bone will spoil meat fast. unless its freezing at night or right close to freezing I remove the meat and hang in game bags to cure. In Idaho even in October I have to take the meat down during the day and insulate the cold inside it so the heat of the day doesn't spoil the meat. With all my time effort money put into my hunts I want the best result when I sit down to eat my dinner. I found that comes from Cooling the meat as fast as possible while keeping it dry and clean.
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on July 08, 2015, 06:22:46 AM
Post by: elkoholic on July 08, 2015, 06:56:50 AM
Post by: headshot5 on July 08, 2015, 06:58:02 AM
Quote
keep a kill sheet in your pack, we take off the quarters like you are leaving the bone in and do our boning work on the sheet. It keeps the meat nice and clean...
Solid advise.
Post by: MtnMuley on July 08, 2015, 06:58:21 AM
I will play the devils advocate, even though I also bone out most our elk we get. Leaving it on the bone helps keep it clean and you don't mess up the cuts of meat, It's also easy to hang. I always feel the deboned meat stays warm when it's all stuck together in a meat bag. Keep in mind we hunt rifle elk in Idaho, it's usually cold. Not arguing here just giving another side, like I said, we bone out most the time.:yeah: I will always haul out quarters if it's convenient, but a lot of the time find myself boning.
Post by: packmule on July 08, 2015, 07:03:10 AM
I will play the devils advocate, even though I also bone out most our elk we get. Leaving it on the bone helps keep it clean and you don't mess up the cuts of meat, It's also easy to hang. I always feel the deboned meat stays warm when it's all stuck together in a meat bag. Keep in mind we hunt rifle elk in Idaho, it's usually cold. Not arguing here just giving another side, like I said, we bone out most the time.
:yeah: I usually debone too, but meat does stay cleaner and there is far less waste too. When you expose more surfaces of the meat to the air, dirt and ice theres more to trim off.
X2
Post by: packmule on July 08, 2015, 07:03:56 AM
you dont have the luxury of having a helping hand when deboning a bull miles in and on steep hillside...sometimes things get dirty when you are trying not to get dirt on it
x2 again, good posts huntnnw, keep up the good work :)
Post by: LITTLEBUCK on July 08, 2015, 07:21:30 AM
Post by: Dhoey07 on July 08, 2015, 07:24:30 AM
Elk is a different story.
Post by: jstone on July 08, 2015, 07:31:03 AM
Post by: Okanagan on July 08, 2015, 07:34:15 AM
A professional butcher boned out a buck for me on our kitchen table and showed me how as he went. Amazingly quick and no waste other than mostly white soup bones. I haven't backpacked bones since, nor do I drag much. I've dragged a few 50 yards downhill to a road and boned them out beside the vehicle. Since moving to a city, boning the critter out eliminates having to get rid of anything non-edible once I get home.
Some actuals:
- Average blacktail fork horn buck from north Cascades weighed 48 lbs. boned out.
- Huge bodied Canadian mule deer pushing book size weighed 220 lbs. boned out.
- Huge bodied blacktail/mule deer cross from north Cascades weighed 115 lbs. boned out, with much of one quarter lost to bloodshot.
- Two other exceptionally large bodied N. Cascades hybrid bucks went 105 and 97 lbs. boned out.
- Spike blacktail from Vancouver island weighed 36 lbs. boned out.
My fallible memory recalls that writer Ed Park said that the average WA State fork horn mule deer in his experience weighed 62 lbs. boned out, based on several that he had weighed.
The two huge bucks listed above are near the extreme big end of size spectrum, very rare, but weighed by me.
Two options for boning out are to do it without gutting the animal or do it after gutting. At dusk I sometimes gut one and bone it out in the morning, always depending on weather and temps. You can split the hide down from the spine on the gutless method, but it does not bleed out quite as well IME. Very fast however and other than slightly more moist, no taste diff that I have noticed.
As said, no need to get any meat dirty: use clean side of hide and a plastic sheet that can double as ground sheet, mini-tarp, etc. A split open garbage bag makes a good clean tarp. DO NOT step over the clean ground sheet nor the exposed meat/carcass! Sand/dirt etc. from your boots WILL drop onto the meat.
I like to use clean bleached logs with no bark to lay meat on, or make a clean airy surface of clean dead no bark poles/sticks to hang, cool and drain meat.
Meat boned out immediately will be a little tougher due to muscles contracting through rigor mortis without being attached to bone to keep them from staying contracted (at least that is my understanding of it). It will be slightly tougher, but rarely enough to make noticeable difference.
Post by: trophyhunt on July 08, 2015, 07:38:33 AM
When boning out the meat, what do you do for proof of sex?leave the testicles connected to the meat, you can get rid of the penis. I was ticketed a couple years ago in Idaho for not doing this, the game warden said they are going to crack down on that law.
Post by: CP on July 08, 2015, 07:39:56 AM
Hide Factor
Fawn: (100 pounds) 6.7 percent
Adult doe: (140 pounds) 7.9 percent
Adult buck (160 pounds) 8.7 percent
Bucks: more than 160 pounds 9 percent
Bone Factor
Fawn: (100 pounds) 13.8 percent
Adult doe: (140 pounds) 13 percent
Adult buck (160 pounds) 12.4 percent
Bucks: more than 160 pounds 11.7 percent
Blood Factor
Fawn: (100 pounds) 6 percent
Adult doe: (140 pounds) 5 percent
Adult buck (160 pounds) 5 percent
Bucks: more than 160 pounds 5 percent
Using this guide as an example, a 180-pound buck would have 16.2 pounds of hide, 21.06 pounds of bones and 9 pounds of blood. Unfortunately, it's difficult to estimate the live weight of a deer if it has been field-dressed because the weight of a deer's innards varies depending on its health and diet.
- Pennsylvania State University, Department of Animal Science and the Pennsylvania Game Commission, 1968
Post by: Okanagan on July 08, 2015, 07:40:11 AM
When boning out the meat, what do you do for proof of sex?
Split the nut sack as you skin it and leave a nut on each side, one on each big chunk of round meat hindquarter. The testicles are attached only by one thin string of deer and are all but determined to detach so be careful about it and do one on each side in case the first one comes loose!
Post by: LITTLEBUCK on July 08, 2015, 07:59:22 AM
Post by: CoryTDF on July 08, 2015, 08:01:20 AM
When boning out the meat, what do you do for proof of sex?
Split the nut sack as you skin it and leave a nut on each side, one on each big chunk of round meat hindquarter. The testicles are attached only by one thin string of deer and are all but determined to detach so be careful about it and do one on each side in case the first one comes loose!
I might be in left field here but doesn't the regulation only state 3 point minimum. I don't remember it saying anything about the sex of the animal. There have been cases of does with antlers. Please tell me the page number in the regulations that says this. I just want to make sure I'm not missing something.
Post by: bobcat on July 08, 2015, 08:03:34 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on July 08, 2015, 08:04:23 AM
88When boning out the meat, what do you do for proof of sex?
Split the nut sack as you skin it and leave a nut on each side, one on each big chunk of round meat hindquarter. The testicles are attached only by one thin string of deer and are all but determined to detach so be careful about it and do one on each side in case the first one comes loose!
I might be in left field here but doesn't the regulation only state 3 point minimum. I don't remember it saying anything about the sex of the animal. There have been cases of does with antlers. Please tell me the page number in the regulations that says this. I just want to make sure I'm not missing something.
Post by: trophyhunt on July 08, 2015, 08:04:48 AM
if you cut the head off you need to leave proof of sex on the meat, not sure what page it's on.When boning out the meat, what do you do for proof of sex?
Split the nut sack as you skin it and leave a nut on each side, one on each big chunk of round meat hindquarter. The testicles are attached only by one thin string of deer and are all but determined to detach so be careful about it and do one on each side in case the first one comes loose!
I might be in left field here but doesn't the regulation only state 3 point minimum. I don't remember it saying anything about the sex of the animal. There have been cases of does with antlers. Please tell me the page number in the regulations that says this. I just want to make sure I'm not missing something.
Post by: trophyhunt on July 08, 2015, 08:06:00 AM
Post by: seth30 on July 08, 2015, 08:06:19 AM
A quick Google found this:One more reason for me to debone :tup:
Hide Factor
Fawn: (100 pounds) 6.7 percent
Adult doe: (140 pounds) 7.9 percent
Adult buck (160 pounds) 8.7 percent
Bucks: more than 160 pounds 9 percent
Bone Factor
Fawn: (100 pounds) 13.8 percent
Adult doe: (140 pounds) 13 percent
Adult buck (160 pounds) 12.4 percent
Bucks: more than 160 pounds 11.7 percent
Blood Factor
Fawn: (100 pounds) 6 percent
Adult doe: (140 pounds) 5 percent
Adult buck (160 pounds) 5 percent
Bucks: more than 160 pounds 5 percent
Using this guide as an example, a 180-pound buck would have 16.2 pounds of hide, 21.06 pounds of bones and 9 pounds of blood. Unfortunately, it's difficult to estimate the live weight of a deer if it has been field-dressed because the weight of a deer's innards varies depending on its health and diet.
- Pennsylvania State University, Department of Animal Science and the Pennsylvania Game Commission, 1968
Post by: northwesthunter84 on July 08, 2015, 08:20:47 AM
I always have taken this to mean (and I might be wrong) that if you are going to use the head it would still either need to contain more meat than the boned out quarter (or attached to a front quarter) or leave the teste attached to the boned out quarter.
Post by: CoryTDF on July 08, 2015, 08:25:24 AM
(WAC 232-12-267):
It is illegal to possess or transport big
game animals unless evidence of the
animal's sex is left naturally attached to
the carcass until the carcass is processed
or stored for consumption. Evidence of
sex means:
Male - head with antlers or horns
attached or penis or testes any of
which must be naturally attached to
at least one quarter of the carcass or to
the largest portion of meat.
So to me boning is a form of processing. So as long as I have the head with me or in my truck I feel pretty damn confident that I'll be ok. I'm not going to hang meat in my cooler with balls or wieners stuck to them either.
Post by: Jonathan_S on July 08, 2015, 08:31:58 AM
I've never been in a situation where I thought deboning would save the meat or where it would be too hard to get the deer out whole or in quarters. That being said most of my best hunting areas are within .5-1.5 miles from the truck :dunno:
I have a strange vision of a backpack full of steaks with two oysters dangling from the uppermost portions :o I have certainly fudged the rules on WAC 232-12-267. I imagine most have :twocents:
Post by: grundy53 on July 08, 2015, 08:33:49 AM
More like 20lbs max ..go pick up a 40lb dumbell and tell me 4 deer leg bones weigh 40lbs!! NO WAY:yeah:
Post by: grundy53 on July 08, 2015, 08:34:17 AM
I will play the devils advocate, even though I also bone out most our elk we get. Leaving it on the bone helps keep it clean and you don't mess up the cuts of meat, It's also easy to hang. I always feel the deboned meat stays warm when it's all stuck together in a meat bag. Keep in mind we hunt rifle elk in Idaho, it's usually cold. Not arguing here just giving another side, like I said, we bone out most the time.I agree.
Post by: CoryTDF on July 08, 2015, 08:34:57 AM
Everybody must kill a buck like 5 miles away from any road :rolleyes:
I've never been in a situation where I thought deboning would save the meat or where it would be too hard to get the deer out whole or in quarters. That being said most of my best hunting areas are within .5-1.5 miles from the truck :dunno:
I have a strange vision of a backpack full of steaks with two oysters dangling from the uppermost portions :o I have certainly fudged the rules on WAC 232-12-267. I imagine most have :twocents:
I've only had to bone out two deer but trust me when I say that we wanted nothing to do with bringing out any more weight than necessary.
Same thing for a few elk that I have had to hump out of hell.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on July 08, 2015, 08:35:41 AM
As for keeping everything absolutely perfectly clean some people must be better Than I am. I have never quartered or boned out an animal in the field and kept it 100% clean. There is always at least some hair or dirt on some of it. Heck even with 3 guys working on my moose we managed to get some dirt on each quarter. Just trim it off when butchering. Not a big deal.
Post by: jstone on July 08, 2015, 08:36:17 AM
Post by: Jonathan_S on July 08, 2015, 08:37:40 AM
Heck even with 3 guys working on my moose we managed to get some dirt on each quarter. Just trim it off when butchering. Not a big deal.
Game Wastage!!! AHHHHHHHHHH!!! :yike: :yike: :yike: You got dirt on meat in the field and then trimmed it?
"Hello WDFW? Transfer me to reinforcement..."
Post by: trophyhunt on July 08, 2015, 08:40:36 AM
:yeah: I agree with Cory. What about a calf bull elk that you bone out to pack out in a antler less only area. You leave the nuts attached and leave the head at kill site. Would they assume you shot a antlered bull? The red don't say the animal has to be a male. Just that it has antlers with at least 3 points (mule deer regs for example) can there not ever be a denial animal (no nuts) that has a 3 point rack? I'll take my chances ant I always take a cell phone pic anyways.the year we both got tickets in Idaho for no proof of sex, we had the elk on video dead before we cut it up. We showed the warden but he said sorry but it's still a ticket. I really didn't care about the ticket, it was my best bull.
As for keeping everything absolutely perfectly clean some people must be better Than I am. I have never quartered or boned out an animal in the field and kept it 100% clean. There is always at least some hair or dirt on some of it. Heck even with 3 guys working on my moose we managed to get some dirt on each quarter. Just trim it off when butchering. Not a big deal.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on July 08, 2015, 08:42:02 AM
:chuckle: I'm guessing Wdfw wouldn't have much jurisdiction on this one tho. So no 10 points for you. :tung: better luck next timeHeck even with 3 guys working on my moose we managed to get some dirt on each quarter. Just trim it off when butchering. Not a big deal.
Game Wastage!!! AHHHHHHHHHH!!! :yike: :yike: :yike: You got dirt on meat in the field and then trimmed it?
"Hello WDFW? Transfer me to reinforcement..."
Post by: Jonathan_S on July 08, 2015, 08:43:34 AM
I agree though seriously, it's impossible to keep all bugs/hair/dirt leaves/pine needles off of exposed meat in the field.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on July 08, 2015, 08:46:45 AM
at that point I would consider it a cost of doing business. :'( it Would suck. But oh well.:yeah: I agree with Cory. What about a calf bull elk that you bone out to pack out in a antler less only area. You leave the nuts attached and leave the head at kill site. Would they assume you shot a antlered bull? The red don't say the animal has to be a male. Just that it has antlers with at least 3 points (mule deer regs for example) can there not ever be a denial animal (no nuts) that has a 3 point rack? I'll take my chances ant I always take a cell phone pic anyways.the year we both got tickets in Idaho for no proof of sex, we had the elk on video dead before we cut it up. We showed the warden but he said sorry but it's still a ticket. I really didn't care about the ticket, it was my best bull.
As for keeping everything absolutely perfectly clean some people must be better Than I am. I have never quartered or boned out an animal in the field and kept it 100% clean. There is always at least some hair or dirt on some of it. Heck even with 3 guys working on my moose we managed to get some dirt on each quarter. Just trim it off when butchering. Not a big deal.
Post by: trophyhunt on July 08, 2015, 08:48:18 AM
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Post by: CoryTDF on July 08, 2015, 08:58:02 AM
Yup, I didn't mind. He was doing his job and I broke the rules, still love Idaho !
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That is some cheesy crap right there man. A little discretion goes a long way in my book. I have worked in corrections for nearly 9 years and trust me if I wrote up every person/offender for every petty little thing I would never leave the computer. There are times that common sense and understanding will do more in the long run then being a hard A. You obviously could prove it was a bull that was harvested. That is just flat out a guy being an A-Hole.
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on July 08, 2015, 08:59:57 AM
When boning out the meat, what do you do for proof of sex?
Leave a portion of the sex organ attached to the hind quarter.
Post by: trophyhunt on July 08, 2015, 09:03:12 AM
it was cheesy but he was such a nice guy and it was my biggest bull so I really didn't care much.Yup, I didn't mind. He was doing his job and I broke the rules, still love Idaho !
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That is some cheesy crap right there man. A little discretion goes a long way in my book. I have worked in corrections for nearly 9 years and trust me if I wrote up every person/offender for every petty little thing I would never leave the computer. There are times that common sense and understanding will do more in the long run then being a hard A. You obviously could prove it was a bull that was harvested. That is just flat out a guy being an A-Hole.
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Post by: tjthebest on July 08, 2015, 09:44:58 AM
How much weight is saved when you have to pack out an average muley buck but bone it out first? In other words, how much do the bones of a quartered out buck weigh on average.
As you know, i have boned out a few animals and after carrying your muley out with it only quartered, i much prefer to de-bone it.
We will try it out with the next buck we shoot. see how you like it.
Post by: mazama on July 08, 2015, 05:27:17 PM
Post by: jdb on July 08, 2015, 06:44:45 PM
i wish we had more like you in Leo!!Yup, I didn't mind. He was doing his job and I broke the rules, still love Idaho !
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That is some cheesy crap right there man. A little discretion goes a long way in my book. I have worked in corrections for nearly 9 years and trust me if I wrote up every person/offender for every petty little thing I would never leave the computer. There are times that common sense and understanding will do more in the long run then being a hard A. You obviously could prove it was a bull that was harvested. That is just flat out a guy being an A-Hole.
Post by: The scout on July 08, 2015, 07:21:46 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on July 08, 2015, 07:31:40 PM
Post by: raydog on July 08, 2015, 07:46:28 PM
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on July 08, 2015, 08:00:21 PM
I aint packing out any nuts but my own. :bdid: :chuckle:
Just the last inch would be enough for the gamies...
Post by: CoryTDF on July 09, 2015, 08:19:57 AM
i wish we had more like you in Leo!!Yup, I didn't mind. He was doing his job and I broke the rules, still love Idaho !
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That is some cheesy crap right there man. A little discretion goes a long way in my book. I have worked in corrections for nearly 9 years and trust me if I wrote up every person/offender for every petty little thing I would never leave the computer. There are times that common sense and understanding will do more in the long run then being a hard A. You obviously could prove it was a bull that was harvested. That is just flat out a guy being an A-Hole.
Thanks. I'm no push over by any means but sometimes I will have better results with a warning rather than a stiff punishment. If a guy honestly didn't even know he was doing wrong and you cut him a break, and trust me you can tell if they are BS-ing you, that guy might actually learn from his mistake and not do it again. If you crack down on a guy for something so small and petty it might turn him sour to not only you but other officers he may encounter in the future. Like I said I'm not a push over and if you got it coming I will oblige. But the old saying "You get more bees with honey" can be beneficial as long as you know when to follow it.
Back to the topic at hand and the OP. If you have a pack FRAME and it's not to much trouble to go get it leave the bones in and take out quarters whole. They will hang nicer in a cooler and stay cleaner. If you are down in the bottom of hell leave them bones for the devils dogs to chew on.
Post by: Tbob on July 09, 2015, 10:22:03 AM
Post by: TriggerMike on July 09, 2015, 11:02:12 AM
I have the old yellow pack frame that our dad's used to haul the elk out of West Bar with back in the day. But I have a feeling that I will be deboning this year with the area I'm planning on going in to, especially for bear.i wish we had more like you in Leo!!Yup, I didn't mind. He was doing his job and I broke the rules, still love Idaho !
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That is some cheesy crap right there man. A little discretion goes a long way in my book. I have worked in corrections for nearly 9 years and trust me if I wrote up every person/offender for every petty little thing I would never leave the computer. There are times that common sense and understanding will do more in the long run then being a hard A. You obviously could prove it was a bull that was harvested. That is just flat out a guy being an A-Hole.
Thanks. I'm no push over by any means but sometimes I will have better results with a warning rather than a stiff punishment. If a guy honestly didn't even know he was doing wrong and you cut him a break, and trust me you can tell if they are BS-ing you, that guy might actually learn from his mistake and not do it again. If you crack down on a guy for something so small and petty it might turn him sour to not only you but other officers he may encounter in the future. Like I said I'm not a push over and if you got it coming I will oblige. But the old saying "You get more bees with honey" can be beneficial as long as you know when to follow it.
Back to the topic at hand and the OP. If you have a pack FRAME and it's not to much trouble to go get it leave the bones in and take out quarters whole. They will hang nicer in a cooler and stay cleaner. If you are down in the bottom of hell leave them bones for the devils dogs to chew on.
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Post by: TriggerMike on July 09, 2015, 11:04:41 AM
The few critters I've been fortunate enough to take were broken down with the gutless method and then packed out in quarters. I take all the meat off the ribs, back-strap, tenderloins brisket and neck meat. Just easier for me to deal with the meat on the bones in my pack than big blobs of squishy meat. During my hunt in AK I learned that it is the law to leave the meat on the bone. Moose bones are big!!I did the exact same thing with my buck last year. Gutless then quartered. Was only about 1.5 miles to the truck though. Any steeper and deeper then I would've been deboning.
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Post by: TriggerMike on July 09, 2015, 11:08:35 AM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F15%2F07%2F09%2Fbd83e56a16cfe849899211771c149c7d.jpg&hash=96b0d560bab0fdc61bd83873ffe396d12ed7bdc2)
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Post by: TomT on July 09, 2015, 01:32:57 PM
Cheap and a 9'x12' sheet weighs almost nothing.
Post by: CoryTDF on July 09, 2015, 02:49:36 PM
I have the old yellow pack frame that our dad's used to haul the elk out of West Bar with back in the day. But I have a feeling that I will be deboning this year with the area I'm planning on going in to, especially for bear.i wish we had more like you in Leo!!Yup, I didn't mind. He was doing his job and I broke the rules, still love Idaho !
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That is some cheesy crap right there man. A little discretion goes a long way in my book. I have worked in corrections for nearly 9 years and trust me if I wrote up every person/offender for every petty little thing I would never leave the computer. There are times that common sense and understanding will do more in the long run then being a hard A. You obviously could prove it was a bull that was harvested. That is just flat out a guy being an A-Hole.
Thanks. I'm no push over by any means but sometimes I will have better results with a warning rather than a stiff punishment. If a guy honestly didn't even know he was doing wrong and you cut him a break, and trust me you can tell if they are BS-ing you, that guy might actually learn from his mistake and not do it again. If you crack down on a guy for something so small and petty it might turn him sour to not only you but other officers he may encounter in the future. Like I said I'm not a push over and if you got it coming I will oblige. But the old saying "You get more bees with honey" can be beneficial as long as you know when to follow it.
Back to the topic at hand and the OP. If you have a pack FRAME and it's not to much trouble to go get it leave the bones in and take out quarters whole. They will hang nicer in a cooler and stay cleaner. If you are down in the bottom of hell leave them bones for the devils dogs to chew on.
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If you are looking for a new Pack frame check out the Bullpacs frames. They are nice. I have one and I like it. I also have a badlands 2200 that is good for about half of a deer if packed right. In truth I don't really like the pack that much for just hunting though as it is a pain to get into and keep organized.
Post by: RadSav on July 09, 2015, 04:56:36 PM
Post by: tgomez on July 10, 2015, 08:41:17 AM
220Lb buck= 24 lbs of bone.
275 lb plus buck= 27-28 lbs of bone.
Hope this helps.
Post by: TriggerMike on July 10, 2015, 03:23:36 PM
I have the old yellow pack frame that our dad's used to haul the elk out of West Bar with back in the day. But I have a feeling that I will be deboning this year with the area I'm planning on going in to, especially for bear.i wish we had more like you in Leo!!Yup, I didn't mind. He was doing his job and I broke the rules, still love Idaho !
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That is some cheesy crap right there man. A little discretion goes a long way in my book. I have worked in corrections for nearly 9 years and trust me if I wrote up every person/offender for every petty little thing I would never leave the computer. There are times that common sense and understanding will do more in the long run then being a hard A. You obviously could prove it was a bull that was harvested. That is just flat out a guy being an A-Hole.
Thanks. I'm no push over by any means but sometimes I will have better results with a warning rather than a stiff punishment. If a guy honestly didn't even know he was doing wrong and you cut him a break, and trust me you can tell if they are BS-ing you, that guy might actually learn from his mistake and not do it again. If you crack down on a guy for something so small and petty it might turn him sour to not only you but other officers he may encounter in the future. Like I said I'm not a push over and if you got it coming I will oblige. But the old saying "You get more bees with honey" can be beneficial as long as you know when to follow it.
Back to the topic at hand and the OP. If you have a pack FRAME and it's not to much trouble to go get it leave the bones in and take out quarters whole. They will hang nicer in a cooler and stay cleaner. If you are down in the bottom of hell leave them bones for the devils dogs to chew on.
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If you are looking for a new Pack frame check out the Bullpacs frames. They are nice. I have one and I like it. I also have a badlands 2200 that is good for about half of a deer if packed right. In truth I don't really like the pack that much for just hunting though as it is a pain to get into and keep organized.
Alright cool I'll look into that.
Post by: crabcreekhunter on July 10, 2015, 08:36:10 PM
Post by: BLUEBULLS on July 11, 2015, 07:55:03 AM
Post by: AKBowman on July 11, 2015, 12:59:18 PM
Compared to quarters w the bone on. Probably 30-40 lbs extra.
Man, you must shoot some BIG deer!!
Agreed. I would say if your just talking the bones in the quarters of an average Miley Buck probably around 15-20lbs
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on July 11, 2015, 08:29:38 PM
Post by: Okanagan on August 01, 2015, 09:58:39 PM
Error correction: happened to look at an old post and found a BIG typo error in my post, partly quoted below. I said that a boned out huge Canadian mule deer weighed 220 lbs. WRONG. It was 120 lbs., still a huge buck. Didn't notice my error till now, and apologize.
Some actuals:
- Average blacktail fork horn buck from north Cascades weighed 48 lbs. boned out.
- Huge bodied Canadian mule deer pushing book size weighed 220 lbs. boned out.
- Huge bodied blacktail/mule deer cross from north Cascades weighed 115 lbs. boned out, with much of one quarter lost to bloodshot.
- Two other exceptionally large bodied N. Cascades hybrid bucks went 105 and 97 lbs. boned out.
- Spike blacktail from Vancouver island weighed 36 lbs. boned out.
My fallible memory recalls that writer Ed Park said that the average WA State fork horn mule deer in his experience weighed 62 lbs. boned out, based on several that he had weighed.
The two huge bucks listed above are near the extreme big end of size spectrum, very rare, but weighed by me.
Post by: dreamunelk on August 01, 2015, 11:21:41 PM
Nice thing about animals is they come wrapped in there own drop cloth. So I don't see where the trouble in keeping meat clean comes from. It's nice to have a space blanked to allow you to spread out a little, but it definitely is not necessary. Just slow down and take the time to do it right. No worries!
:yeah:
That is Good Advice :tup:
Post by: coachcw on August 08, 2015, 08:26:51 PM
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on August 10, 2015, 07:07:18 AM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on August 10, 2015, 10:09:55 AM
When I was healthy I did a lot of solo backcountry hunts, and now that I'm not I save every bit of exertion I can. This is the method that has worked for me on around 25 deer and a few elk: I hunt with a Badlands 2200 pack. Inside are 4 tube-sock style quarter bags (6 if elk hunting) and a 99 cents disposable painter's dropcloth, as well as my food, water, extra clothes, ammo, GPS, compass, headlamp, lighter and tinder, etc.
When I kill a buck, I empty the contents of my pack into one of the quarter bags with the exception of my water bladder. I use the hide to keep the carcass out of the dirt (tied off if necessary) while de-boning, the dropcloth several feet away from the boning scene to receive clean boned-off muscles. One hindquarter of meat in quarter bags 2 and 3, shoulder meat, backstraps and tenderloins, rib meat and neck meat into the 4th. This last bag goes into the pack first, then the two hind quarter bags on top side by side - this gives the most balanced load. The bag with my gear, and my bow/rifle, is secured outside the cargo compartment with the bat wings, and the skullplate goes on top, antlers down and tied in place to the webbing with paracord. The total load will weigh anywhere from 70-95 pounds, and is a sucky but doable trip out, with no return trip needed.
When I kill an elk, it is more complicated: each skinned hind leg, pelvis off and leg bones in, gets a bag, and the two skinned front arms (off ribs, leg bones in) get a third bag. Depending on location, These either get hung in a tree (preferable), or covered with conifer boughs a good distance from the gutpile. Backstraps and tenderloins, rib and neck meat go into 1-2 quarter bags, and inside the 2200, same packout as the deer EXCEPT I have 3 more trips with a pack frame to get the rest out. Depending on the toughness of the pack out, I may bone them off the legs to save weight, but the stability of the long bones is worth the extra weight if the pack out is not too brutal.
Even with a compromised heart, I find I can still do a whole deer for short distances on moderate terrain using this method. Haven't killed an elk since, but I think those solo days are over for me.
Post by: PlateauNDN on August 10, 2015, 10:51:48 AM
Post by: lamrith on August 10, 2015, 11:25:50 AM
You can figure not packing out skeleton and hide will save about 35% of the weight of a field-dressed animal. Boneless vs. bone-in skinned quarters (excluding pelvis, spine and ribcage) will save about 10%. These are just ballparks, but based on real data. If it is a fat buck or bull, taking the thick fat off the spine and top of the hinds can save several more pounds.From a new hunter, THANK YOU very much for the detailed info. It helps to understand the why as well as the how you experienced hunters handle the animal when the real work starts.
When I was healthy I did a lot of solo backcountry hunts, and now that I'm not I save every bit of exertion I can. This is the method that has worked for me on around 25 deer and a few elk: I hunt with a Badlands 2200 pack. Inside are 4 tube-sock style quarter bags (6 if elk hunting) and a 99 cents disposable painter's dropcloth, as well as my food, water, extra clothes, ammo, GPS, compass, headlamp, lighter and tinder, etc.
When I kill a buck, I empty the contents of my pack into one of the quarter bags with the exception of my water bladder. I use the hide to keep the carcass out of the dirt (tied off if necessary) while de-boning, the dropcloth several feet away from the boning scene to receive clean boned-off muscles. One hindquarter of meat in quarter bags 2 and 3, shoulder meat, backstraps and tenderloins, rib meat and neck meat into the 4th. This last bag goes into the pack first, then the two hind quarter bags on top side by side - this gives the most balanced load. The bag with my gear, and my bow/rifle, is secured outside the cargo compartment with the bat wings, and the skullplate goes on top, antlers down and tied in place to the webbing with paracord. The total load will weigh anywhere from 70-95 pounds, and is a sucky but doable trip out, with no return trip needed.
When I kill an elk, it is more complicated: each skinned hind leg, pelvis off and leg bones in, gets a bag, and the two skinned front arms (off ribs, leg bones in) get a third bag. Depending on location, These either get hung in a tree (preferable), or covered with conifer boughs a good distance from the gutpile. Backstraps and tenderloins, rib and neck meat go into 1-2 quarter bags, and inside the 2200, same packout as the deer EXCEPT I have 3 more trips with a pack frame to get the rest out. Depending on the toughness of the pack out, I may bone them off the legs to save weight, but the stability of the long bones is worth the extra weight if the pack out is not too brutal.
Even with a compromised heart, I find I can still do a whole deer for short distances on moderate terrain using this method. Haven't killed an elk since, but I think those solo days are over for me.
Post by: TeacherMan on August 21, 2015, 08:07:00 AM
http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=hunting.meatcare
Post by: Jonathan_S on August 21, 2015, 08:17:37 AM
Check regs to see if it's legal in your area. I know up in AK you are required to leave the meat on the bone. They say it causes want and waste along with slowing the cooling process down due to large quantities of meat tossed in one bag.
http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=hunting.meatcare
You mean wanton right? That's crazy. Even a few minutes off the bone allows for evaporation and air circulation that allows the meat to cool from both sides. Meat is already in large quantities when it's on the bone :dunno:
Interesting that a state like Alaska has that rule...maybe a bunch of people got sloppy with their moose quarters.
Post by: Piscatory_5 on August 25, 2015, 08:06:45 AM
More like 20lbs max ..go pick up a 40lb dumbell and tell me 4 deer leg bones weigh 40lbs!! NO WAYAnd for proper meat care removing the meat from the bone as soon as possible will produce better quality meat. The meat could still be warm 24 hrs after killed if not removed from the bone.
I wonder what the beef people say about this, Seems most beef hangs for a week or 2, by the half, true its in a cooler but still on the bone.
I would hate to leave all those nice ribs behind as well. I never debone the ribs, season them and deep fry fast and they are great.
With all this deboned meat after getting home do you cut it up immediately or stretch it out on racks to age a while(couple days) and firm up? Do you consider this step already finished by the time you are packing out?
Post by: Jonathan_S on August 25, 2015, 08:29:45 AM
Post by: sakoshooter on August 26, 2015, 09:07:37 PM
More like 20lbs max ..go pick up a 40lb dumbell and tell me 4 deer leg bones weigh 40lbs!! NO WAY
25 30 40 I'm no human scale. I know the pile of bones I leave on a mule buck weighs a lot and is ocward to carry. Taking the meat off the bone allows the meat to cool WAY faster. Making the meat a lot better on the table. It also allows you to place the meat on the pack in the best way possible for long hauls or even short packs. De boning can get the meat bloody and moisten it up. Let it hang and air dry on the kill spot in the shade, after de boning. I'll never take the bones. Way to much weight that I can't eat. And for proper meat care removing the meat from the bone as soon as possible will produce better quality meat. The meat could still be warm 24 hrs after killed if not removed from the bone.
I'll second every bit of that line of thinking Nick. I've boned out a lot of em and packed em a lot farther than I wanted to but was darn glad every time that I'd left all that 'green' bone in the woods. Since I'm boning, a little fat is trimmed that isn't when you take an animal out whole. Hide weighs more than you think when it's green. Legs the same.
I've brought meat to the butcher a couple of times that I didn't have time to cut it myself or the weather was too hot to let it hang like I like to. I always have them weight the meat. Twice I was over 150 in lean meat and once over 175. Big deer no doubt. I'd guess leaving the hide, legs, guts, trimmed fat and bones in the woods on a nice muley buck would go over 75lbs not counting guts. That's a lot in my book to pack out just to throw away!
Heck, the head/horns/cape has got to be 25lbs on a nice muley, whitetail or even blacktail for that matter.
Post by: Vek on September 01, 2015, 11:19:21 AM
Neck and straps and tenders are the only things coming out boneless.
Idea being - the bone keeps a hindquarter or shoulder stretched out instead of slumped in the bottom of a gamebag - makes things easier to handle on boats and rafts and canoes and such - the bone structure helps you suspend it off the wet boat floor.
Better eat your wheaties if you plan to one-trip a mature muley or sheep. Lots of guys claim one-trip packweights (camp included) less than 100lbs for good muleys and sheep - no question they are leaving red meat (neck, shanks, etc.) on the mountain.
Post by: 300rum on September 01, 2015, 12:23:37 PM
I shot a Washington buck last year and began boning him out. I got down to skin out his nuts to keep one attached and there was nothing there! I looked and all there was was a "bump" and nothing in it to attach. I took pictures to try and prove that I tried to do it right but I didn't have anything to work with. I was never checked....
Post by: coachcw on September 01, 2015, 12:32:04 PM
Post by: steen on September 01, 2015, 08:33:51 PM
Post by: 300rum on September 02, 2015, 09:11:05 AM
On a dear it takes me approx. 45 minutes or so to have it done. I also like to lay the meat in a tree fork or in bushes or on rocks around where I am working to cool somewhat before I pack it up. Everything but the head fits in a bag the size of a pillow case.
Awesome thread! I may have to try boning out this year. I may be doing it solo. I won't have to get rid of the carcass either!! Thanks.
Post by: idelkslayer on September 02, 2015, 01:36:37 PM
Post by: WAnoob on September 29, 2015, 12:32:17 PM
Check regs to see if it's legal in your area. I know up in AK you are required to leave the meat on the bone. They say it causes want and waste along with slowing the cooling process down due to large quantities of meat tossed in one bag.
http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=hunting.meatcare
This is not a law in all GMU's in Alaska...they recommend it to preserve more meat but it is not required legally all over. When we hunted black tail on Kodiak Island we boned out every one, but if we went up north to the Koyukuk area to hunt moose, that area requires the entire moose be carried out on the bone except for the hide. They check you at a river check station on your way out. When boning out an animal we always ensured we wasted no meat.
The "law" you referenced states that every piece of edible meat must be salvaged. Which is what we did every time.
I agree it was some what easier to leave the moose on the bone, but we had chainsaws helping us :). Boning out the deer is a huge help when you are 7 miles from the tent.
Randy
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on September 29, 2015, 01:17:48 PM
More like 20lbs max ..go pick up a 40lb dumbell and tell me 4 deer leg bones weigh 40lbs!! NO WAY
25 30 40 I'm no human scale. I know the pile of bones I leave on a mule buck weighs a lot and is ocward to carry. Taking the meat off the bone allows the meat to cool WAY faster. Making the meat a lot better on the table. It also allows you to place the meat on the pack in the best way possible for long hauls or even short packs. De boning can get the meat bloody and moisten it up. Let it hang and air dry on the kill spot in the shade, after de boning. I'll never take the bones. Way to much weight that I can't eat. And for proper meat care removing the meat from the bone as soon as possible will produce better quality meat. The meat could still be warm 24 hrs after killed if not removed from the bone.
I'll second every bit of that line of thinking Nick. I've boned out a lot of em and packed em a lot farther than I wanted to but was darn glad every time that I'd left all that 'green' bone in the woods. Since I'm boning, a little fat is trimmed that isn't when you take an animal out whole. Hide weighs more than you think when it's green. Legs the same.
I've brought meat to the butcher a couple of times that I didn't have time to cut it myself or the weather was too hot to let it hang like I like to. I always have them weight the meat. Twice I was over 150 in lean meat and once over 175. Big deer no doubt. I'd guess leaving the hide, legs, guts, trimmed fat and bones in the woods on a nice muley buck would go over 75lbs not counting guts. That's a lot in my book to pack out just to throw away!
Heck, the head/horns/cape has got to be 25lbs on a nice muley, whitetail or even blacktail for that matter.
We are talking about more than just leg bones.
Post by: Stickerbush on October 03, 2015, 10:45:56 AM
Post by: eliandsky on October 14, 2015, 11:26:03 PM