Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Deer Hunting => Topic started by: boneaddict on January 09, 2009, 04:53:51 PM

Title: Tape is cruel
Post by: boneaddict on January 09, 2009, 04:53:51 PM: Some of you don't care about scores. This thread IS NOT for you.
There is alot of talk on here about 170-180 bucks and scores....and what a trophy is. The tape measure is Cruel as hell let me tell you , after shooting several awesome bucks "in my mind" that I thought would kick ass in score, only to end up with a score sheet wadded up and thrown in t he trash. Here is a link to a thread on another site with some realistic examples of what a 180 and 170 buck might look like. I seem like I am always a constant ass on here telling somebody they need to get back to the measuring tape. Then there are realistic ones like blacktailers sons buck, or Finmans wifes bull, (ok not a deer) but good example. Anyways, expecting to take heat on this, but I'd like all of you to know that a 170 deer is one hell of a deer. If you don't think so, you have been reading TOO MANY Muley Madness magazines. Get realitstic, and scoring isn't that difficult after you have done it a bunch. Its not too hard to debunk the average over booster or boaster......Its pretty sobering when you come to the total at the end of the page. Even more sobering when its official.
http://forums.bowsite.com/TF/bgforums/thread.cfm?threadid=357547&forum=7#2543705 (http://forums.bowsite.com/TF/bgforums/thread.cfm?threadid=357547&forum=7#2543705)
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: jdb on January 09, 2009, 05:01:31 PM: well said Doug.
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: WDFW-SUX on January 09, 2009, 05:01:53 PM: I 've been there on a buck I was sure was going to go 180 after the tape...............................155 live and learn that was along time ago I think I was 15/16. I threw the sheet away too :chuckle:

170 bucks are dead if they come across this cat.
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: bucklucky on January 09, 2009, 05:04:41 PM: Bone, That mount of that 179 buck looks like that "190" you have pictures of ;)......overboaster :chuckle:

170 is dead any day in my book!
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: boneaddict on January 09, 2009, 05:06:07 PM: True story man. If someone has access to the pics of my deer, please post them. I am at work and can't see pics. Here is a 179 buck for you......
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: bucklucky on January 09, 2009, 05:10:57 PM: Which picture Bone?
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: MuleySniper on January 09, 2009, 05:11:13 PM: Agreed...
MS
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on January 09, 2009, 05:11:56 PM: Nah... most of them I'd have let go for another year........ :rolleyes: :yike:
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: huntnphool on January 09, 2009, 05:15:48 PM: Good post Doug, I'm with you. You will notice that all those bucks have one thing in common, they all have long G3's and G4's. To many people get hung up on width while looking over deer in the field, when they should be looking at tine length. I have a couple bucks that go 180+ and are 24" wide or less and one of them even has short mains.

Like you I sometimes chuckle at the scores some guys post with their pics but to each his own. If they really think they are fooling all of us then so be it, I believe they should just be happy they harvested a nice buck.
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: boneaddict on January 09, 2009, 05:17:05 PM: Its on here somewhere. My big buck thats number 3 in the book. I wish I could remember where it was posted. Skyval might know.
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: Gobble on January 09, 2009, 05:18:24 PM: Those are some nice bucks for sure. I have a honey hole that holds some real nice heavy racks like that but you almost never see them until Nov. Still waiting to draw that tag. I used to see 25+ bucks on rutting at a time in this small area back in the late 80's and 90's that were all 4 point or 5 points. My time will come :chuckle:
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: huntnphool on January 09, 2009, 05:18:46 PM: Quote from: boneaddict on January 09, 2009, 05:17:05 PM
Its on here somewhere. My big buck thats number 3 in the book. I wish I could remember where it was posted. Skyval might know.

You mean "Hide and Seek"?
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: boneaddict on January 09, 2009, 05:19:00 PM: This might be it. Sorry I can't even see my own pic. I hate work sometimes..... ;)

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv47%2Fboneaddict%2Fsuper.jpg&hash=b0de95727bffb3c83a695da58bf3fd1aa3e7b0bb).
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: boneaddict on January 09, 2009, 05:19:15 PM: Yes the hide and seek.
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: WDFW-SUX on January 09, 2009, 05:20:12 PM: (https://hunting-washington.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10069/Boneaddict_twisp_river_92.jpg)

I think this is it
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: boneaddict on January 09, 2009, 05:22:55 PM: Yep, thats him. Probably not alot of folks on here that would look at him on the hoof and say, theres a 170 buck. By the way, deer on the hoof are alot bigger than when sitting in front of your official scorer.
THE TAPE IS CRUEL
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: huntnphool on January 09, 2009, 05:23:36 PM: LOL, what most dont know is how big Bone is, that thing would look 230" if I were posing with it :chuckle:
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: bucklucky on January 09, 2009, 05:25:27 PM: Quote from: boneaddict on January 09, 2009, 05:22:55 PM
Yep, thats him. Probably not alot of folks on here that would look at him on the hoof and say, theres a 170 buck. By the way, deer on the hoof are alot bigger than when sitting in front of your official scorer.
THE TAPE IS CRUEL

Thats why I tell people when they bring there "180" bucks in to the shop and want them scored, I tell them that score just doesnt do bucks justice sometimes. Especialy when I score that 180 buck at 155 or 160 :chuckle:
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: boneaddict on January 09, 2009, 05:26:54 PM: Looked 230 when I arrowed him too. :chuckle: At least you give an honest score Charlie, alot of taxis and outfitters alike boast bigger scores as it makes the "happy client". I will add sportsman shows too are somewhat inflated I suppose sometimes if they are not in the top. ALot of amateurs are measuring at these shows. If its not official then...... I don't think thats nearly as bad though.
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: jdb on January 09, 2009, 05:28:40 PM: Quote from: boneaddict on January 09, 2009, 05:22:55 PM

THE TAPE IS CRUEL
I never really thought about it but your right. My best bucks are both, I feel great bucks but when I had them scored I was disapointed in the score. Even though I am not a trophy hunter. I just lucked into them and thought "wow thats a pretty good buck I think I'll have it scored". Then I was disapointed which secretly bothered me because then I felt like I was disrespecting the animal by being disapointed in it. Am I makeing sense?
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: boneaddict on January 09, 2009, 05:29:47 PM: Yep, thats why the score doesn't or shouldn't measure (excuse the pun) the trophy.
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: WDFW-SUX on January 09, 2009, 05:29:53 PM: When the official Boone and Crockett guys get done with your bone its like someone kicked you in the nuts. :twocents:
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: bucklucky on January 09, 2009, 05:29:59 PM: Quote from: jdb on January 09, 2009, 05:28:40 PM
Quote from: boneaddict on January 09, 2009, 05:22:55 PM

THE TAPE IS CRUEL
I never really thought about it but your right. My best bucks are both, I feel great bucks but when I had them scored I was disapointed in the score. Even though I am not a trophy hunter. I just lucked into them and thought "wow thats a pretty good buck I think I'll have it scored". Then I was disapointed which secretly bothered me because then I felt like I was disrespecting the animal by being disapointed in it. Am I makeing sense?

You make 100% sence to me, I know what you mean!
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: boneaddict on January 09, 2009, 05:32:06 PM: Its good to have a goal, its good to know what you are after. This is for ALL SPECIES.... only reason this is being discussed is there are alot that talk scores. Its an interesting fact to some. We all like to compare our animals to something.....I measure alot of things because its fun to me. But for gosh sakes, don't be upset or offended about your score.
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: bucklucky on January 09, 2009, 05:34:46 PM: As much as I really like guessing scores and seing scores on racks, Its just not as fun as it used to be, see to many way inflated scores that you have to call BS on . Too many numbers being thrown out by people that really dont know what the numbers mean. Just takes away from the animals. I kind of wish there werent any record books or scores, just nice beautiful racks and pictures!
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: jdb on January 09, 2009, 05:36:25 PM: My Dad has killed some pretty good bucks. and the one he is the proudest of is an average 3x4 about 18" square. He is proud of it because he says he spoted it made a decent stock and killed it with a good shoot and it never knew he was there. In other words he killed it being the best hunter he could be, he didnt snipe it across some great big canyon or stumle up on it and luck into it. he HUNTED it not killed it.
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: Red Dawg on January 09, 2009, 05:39:27 PM: Quote from: bucklucky on January 09, 2009, 05:34:46 PM
As much as I really like guessing scores and seing scores on racks, Its just not as fun as it used to be, see to many way inflated scores that you have to call BS on . Too many numbers being thrown out by people that really dont know what the numbers mean. Just takes away from the animals. I kind of wish there werent any record books or scores, just nice beautiful racks and pictures!
I totaly agree with that. Although I can say that my ultimate goal for myself is to shoot a BC mule deer
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: huntnphool on January 09, 2009, 05:40:13 PM: Just be happy you got one regardless of the score. Sure I have taken my share of "big" bucks, big being relative, and still will pass a small racked deer but anymore I get a bigger kick and get more excited when I get to be with family and friends that tag an animal, there are a few on here that can attest to that. I don't know at what point it changed :dunno: and I still hunt hard for that monster when out but it just doesn't bother me to burn a tag anymore if my partners fill theirs. Bottom line jdb you are making sense to me but I dont believe you should ever be disappointed after harvesting an animal, there are a couple guys on here that had tag soup this year that would gladly take your place :twocents:
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: bucklucky on January 09, 2009, 05:42:29 PM: :tup:

Good thread Bone!
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: bucklucky on January 09, 2009, 05:56:51 PM: 146, 147??
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: huntnphool on January 09, 2009, 05:58:09 PM: 140 class
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: boneaddict on January 09, 2009, 06:00:28 PM: :yeah:
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: Machias on January 09, 2009, 06:27:56 PM: It's the same thing with all game animals escpecially bear and lions with regard to weight and skull size.
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: bucklucky on January 09, 2009, 06:30:52 PM: Exactly right Machias
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: WDFW-SUX on January 09, 2009, 06:42:36 PM: Yup duck those weak front just kill the score. nice buck none the less :hello:
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: blacktailer on January 09, 2009, 07:36:02 PM: Great thread Bone. I just want to second what Phool stated. A lot of guys get hung up on width. The magical 30 incher that we all strve for. When field judging and scoring, it is simply a novelty. I believe there are far more 26-28 inch typical bucks in the B & C than 30+. There are a lot of wide bucks out there with short mainbeams. Also, the importance of eyeguards/browtines is huge. You won't find many bucks in the books that are slick 4 x 4's. Nice eyeguards can ad 8-10" on a muley real fast. While on the subject of scoring typicals, I thought I'd bring up the topic of scoring big 5 x 5's (not counting eyeguards) A lot of people don't realize that on a blacktail or muley, anything more than 4 points and an eyeguard per side will be added as nontypical points. On whitetails, you can have an infinate amount of points per side and still be scored as a typical. That being said, I am way more into gross scores than net scores and love the extras. A lot of people are critical of the B & C for their deductions, but their scoring system is geared towards the perfect, purest form of the species.
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: Ryan on January 09, 2009, 07:40:42 PM: Good topic!! I have to admit I put a tape on all my bigger deer and I am one that ask people for scores but its not that I really care how big the horns are but just to give me a idea of how big it is. :dunno: For Example.....the buck I killed in Idaho this year was a 140 buck not a trophy in some peoples books and Not even close to my biggest deer but I was SUPER happy with him and he will be a trophy to me forever. So who cares what others think as long as your happy with it.

By the way great post Blacktailer!! I agree 100%
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: boneaddict on January 09, 2009, 09:15:55 PM: Guess what was missing on my big buck. EYEGUARDS.... guess what he had extra a fifth point. Basically a 194 became a 179 buck with the tale of the tape. Just for the record, I remeasured that buck several times as I didn't believe it scored so low. He does have long mains eventhough he is wide. he also has mass but carries it weird. You get credit for teh smallest part. He flares worse than I have seen on any antler.
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: boneaddict on January 09, 2009, 09:24:57 PM: oh....another one like blacktailer was describing. You've all seen him......Technically not even a 170 deer, but yeah I tend to go by gross when evaluating a deer.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv47%2Fboneaddict%2Fbonesbucks%2Ffinished.jpg&hash=7c8555d0948a9acb860c0f6a592e722f1e8037fc)
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: boneaddict on January 09, 2009, 09:26:25 PM: and the tale of the tape.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv47%2Fboneaddict%2Fbonesbucks%2Fdeerscore.jpg&hash=489948c7052eb194ac467927fa6b2b1d2649a942)
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: bucklucky on January 10, 2009, 08:41:59 AM: I got a Muley in this year that was 22 wide outside and grossed 181 3/8. Awesome tine length, ,mass wasnt big , about average. He was a tall buck .
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: deerslyr on January 11, 2009, 02:36:31 PM: I have a friend that shot a muley in the entiat with archery last year. The taxi grossed at 177 and netted 172 or 173. He hasnt entered it but i was wondering how high it would place in washington?
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: 270Shooter on January 11, 2009, 05:05:41 PM: Quote from: deerslyr on January 11, 2009, 02:36:31 PM
I have a friend that shot a muley in the entiat with archery last year. The taxi grossed at 177 and netted 172 or 173. He hasnt entered it but i was wondering how high it would place in washington?
I have an older book but I will see.
If it was a Typical deer he would be about 3 place.
Remeber though that this is the first edition, from 2001 so things could be different.
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: huntnphool on January 11, 2009, 05:10:21 PM: In the second edition it would put it at 8th
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: 270Shooter on January 11, 2009, 05:15:12 PM: Quote from: huntnphool on January 11, 2009, 05:10:21 PM
In the second edition it would put it at 8th
Ya mine is old :bash: :bash: :bash:.
Guess I need to buy a new one!!!
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: coonhound on January 11, 2009, 05:33:42 PM: Here's a good example of a 170 class buck, he Grossed 173 and netted 169 7/8 he was scored officially at the Puyallup Sportsmans Show in 04. A late archery buck from the Okanogan area, he may not be an Eastmans class buck but a trophy of a lifetime for me, well hopefully not of a lifetime... ;)

Coon
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: huntnphool on January 11, 2009, 05:36:45 PM: That was a nice buck the first time I saw it and it still is :tup:
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: bucklucky on January 11, 2009, 07:36:28 PM: Well if it aint eastmans quality , its definately Bucklucky quality!! :chuckle: Thats a stud buck in my book!!
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on January 11, 2009, 07:42:50 PM: I didn't even know you got over the the other half Coon, tremendous buck.
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: BENCHLEG on January 11, 2009, 07:43:33 PM: SO WHEN DOES EASTMANS SET THE BAR FOR THE AVERAGE GUY. THAT HUNTS HIS ASS-OFF AND DOES IT ON PUBLIC LAND , WITH LIMITED FUNDS. NICE JOB TO ALL.
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: bucklucky on January 11, 2009, 07:46:15 PM: Good question ;)
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: boneaddict on January 11, 2009, 07:59:48 PM: Like Rob said, I have always thought that was a dandy.
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: colvilletacoma on January 11, 2009, 10:07:26 PM: n/m
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: bucklucky on January 11, 2009, 11:05:35 PM: 180 gross??
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: rougheye on January 12, 2009, 08:37:23 AM: Looks like a couple eye guards away from mid 170 s .
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: PacificNWhunter on January 12, 2009, 08:43:55 AM: Very good topic bone, and great advice and discussion from everyone. I'm still learning the ropes on field judging animals and it seems I'm usually a good 15 or more inches higher then what others think. I don't really have the experience to differentiate between 150 and 170 I just know there big.
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: TeacherMan on January 12, 2009, 10:40:40 AM: If you want one that scores over 150 it takes homework, if you want one that is 160+ it takes time in the woods after you have done your homework and if you want one that scores 170+ it takes all of the above plus a lot of luck. :chuckle: I average over 40 days a year in the woods hunting just deer and well over 100 scouting in Washingtons best whitetail and mule deer country and I can count on one hand how many bucks a year I see that score over 170.

Sometimes I can go 3 or 4 years and still count them on the same hand. :chuckle:
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: boneaddict on January 13, 2009, 04:45:32 PM: :)
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: Pathfinder101 on January 13, 2009, 10:28:33 PM: great thread. Glad you brought it up. For me, until I draw a god tag, anything with a nice rack is meat in the freezer and I haven't managed to feel bad about that yet. Anything bigger than the others I have killed is a "trophy". Still, it's nice to run the numbers as a benchmark.

FYI, if I talk about a deer I saw on the hoof, it's always a gross score. I can't do the damn deductions in my head. Should have payed better attention in math class... :chuckle:
Title: Re: Tape is cruel
Post by: hogsniper on January 15, 2009, 12:55:17 PM: I walked up to my buck in Montana this year thinking he was a 180+ but when the tape was done stretching he was only a high 160 maybe 170.....That tape is cruel....Great thread bone!!!!