Post by: Jeremy S on January 10, 2009, 04:24:42 PM
Post by: Jeremy S on January 10, 2009, 04:30:20 PM
Post by: New England Native on January 10, 2009, 04:34:26 PM
Post by: Jeremy S on January 10, 2009, 05:19:20 PM
Post by: heavy hauler on January 10, 2009, 09:40:48 PM
Post by: bucklucky on January 10, 2009, 09:52:05 PM
Post by: stumprat on January 10, 2009, 10:03:51 PM
Post by: Jeremy S on January 10, 2009, 11:31:24 PM
If you plan to hunt Vail you have alot of walking to do. You can't access anything in there to just go scouting in a vehicle except hunting season. And I hope you like huge crowds.I spend alot of time on a mountain bike so that's no issue:)
Stick to the eastside, your probably going to be pretty disapointed on the west, especially if you havent killed on the east yet.
I'm getting mixed ideas. I've read that the harvest rate may be going down in Skookumchuck but there are plenty of threads saying that it's one of the better areas on the westside for blacktail....
Post by: bucklucky on January 10, 2009, 11:35:55 PM
Post by: Jeremy S on January 11, 2009, 12:16:06 AM
Post by: GrainfedMuley on January 11, 2009, 03:45:15 AM
Post by: LongTatLaw on January 11, 2009, 04:27:41 AM
All he wants is info on Vail and all we keep telling him is go out east...??
Im sorry frogger, I dont hunt vail... but if yeah google getting to Rainier...then head west on the one highway intown...about a mile out of town theres a left turn that says Vail Tree Farm. Id get one of those maps from Tenino Ace and just get ur butt down there...nothing should beb closed to bikes / foot traffic for the next 2-3 months so get moving...
dave
Post by: rasbo on January 11, 2009, 04:45:14 AM
Post by: stumprat on January 11, 2009, 06:22:27 AM
Post by: stumprat on January 11, 2009, 06:28:55 AM
I'm getting mixed ideas. I've read that the harvest rate may be going down in Skookumchuck but there are plenty of threads saying that it's one of the better areas on the westside for blacktail....
[/quote]
It is one of the better gmu's. But you will find less people and better hunting outside the tree farm. And from what I've been reading Bucklucky is right. Lower success rates and more spike and forkie kills.
Post by: deerslyr on January 11, 2009, 02:12:44 PM
I would much rather buy a hancock key though like rasbo mentioned.
Post by: 12Gauge on January 11, 2009, 02:34:38 PM
Directions to Vail From I-5 north,
1. use exit 109, Sleater-Kinney / Martin way,
2. RIGHT turn at the bottom of ramp and after turn immediately grab left turn lane
3. Left turn into College Street Follow College Street, it will change name to Rainier Road, follow Rainier road until you come to Rainier. At Rainier you will come to a stop sign.
4. RIGHT turn at the Stop sign
5. Left turn at Vail Cut off road, ( about 700 yards after the right turn) follow Vail road about 5 to 6 mile or until you see the Weyerhaeuser facility sign, (your close to the gate on the right). If you go there 1 to 1.5 hours opening day you will see a line of vehicle waiting for the gates to open.
Non motorized equipment is allowed during closed gates/or off season, but check with them.
Good luck
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on January 11, 2009, 07:40:57 PM
Post by: bucklucky on January 11, 2009, 07:45:23 PM
Post by: deerslyr on January 11, 2009, 08:05:22 PM
and if you dont want to do that i suggest storm king....almost all of the huntable land in that unit is gated ;)
Post by: gasman on January 11, 2009, 08:27:24 PM
The best way to get to know Vail is by showing up and road hunt untill you become famillular with the area and where the clearcuts are (new and old). If just want to kill a leagal buck that this will be your best bet. You are not going to be able to prescout the main tree farm for there is no access to the public.
There are many gates that can be riden behind and some are in the clearwood area (clearwood area is at the end of Bald hills rd). Johnson Creek Rd has some gates that allow access also (that is where i would go).
The back side of Alder Lake (Pleasant Valley Rd, outside Elbe) borders the eastern border of the tree farm. If you can find the gates you can acces this area along with the crack heads.
Post by: deerslyr on January 11, 2009, 08:41:55 PM
Post by: heavy hauler on January 11, 2009, 08:44:03 PM
Post by: Jeremy S on January 12, 2009, 02:21:31 AM
Post by: ABugg on January 12, 2009, 03:22:07 PM
WDFW has harvest data on their website. Harvest in Vail has declined over the last 3 years, I suspect not just due to changes in deer #s, but the nicer weather during the MF season always reduces total harvest. Some stats...Average hunter success in Vail since 1998, 21%, average 00-04 = 26%, and 05-07 = 21%; hunter numbers were highest in the late 90s (upper 5K), but in early 2000s has declined to the Mid-4k upper-3k range. Total harvest of bucks for all weapons has averaged ~863, but was down in the 700s each of the last 3 years; buck harvest peaked in '04 = ~1200. Long term-average (89-07) proportion of >2pt = 30% compared to all other units combined = 31%; the trend in all units is mostly spikes and 2's.
The Vail isn't the hotspot it was a few years ago and the other folks are right, there can be a lot of hunters. If you go, I'd recommend hunting the north side of the Skookumchuck Reservoir where access has been walk or bike at all times for several years; even on weekends. To access come in off of the Vail Loop Rd or Johnson Creek Road.
Good luck!
Post by: Red Leg on January 12, 2009, 06:10:01 PM
and the snow from last year. Can't say much about the Mashel, except it is 2 pt or better, the Mossyrock seems to have good numbers taken.
Post by: littlebuf on January 12, 2009, 06:22:08 PM
Post by: rasbo on January 12, 2009, 06:38:27 PM
I always have my cougar tag! As for hancock, where's that area located?kapowsin,eatonville,ashford buckly,rainer park,
Post by: rasbo on January 12, 2009, 06:41:09 PM
dont buy a hancock pass, thats where i hunt and its just terrible, so please nobody buy the hancock passI agree Ive been in there for years really sucks,But I would rather have some of the h-w guys in there being miserable with us
Post by: littlebuf on January 12, 2009, 07:09:13 PM
Post by: rasbo on January 12, 2009, 07:16:08 PM
i assume your being as sarcastic as i am, the less guys in there the better my chance at a elk draw. now i like these fellas but not as much as i like that 7x7 i saw last yearoyeah,im getting drawn this year.Saw one last year 10 points on one side with palmations,looked like a red deer,the other side was normal looking
Post by: PolarBear on January 12, 2009, 07:27:54 PM
Post by: littlebuf on January 12, 2009, 07:29:36 PM
i assume your being as sarcastic as i am, the less guys in there the better my chance at a elk draw. now i like these fellas but not as much as i like that 7x7 i saw last yearoyeah,im getting drawn this year.Saw one last year 10 points on one side with palmations,looked like a red deer,the other side was normal looking
well when we both get drawn this year we'll have to hook up and go set some new records ;)
Post by: bankwalker on January 12, 2009, 07:43:56 PM
I live at the foot of Vail and refuse to hunt up there. It is an okay place if you love to road hunt daylight to dawn with several thousand other hunters after dink spikes and does. There are a few bruisers that come out of there every year but they are usually shot by loggers who are in there year round. A good friend of mine helps run the check station up there every year and it sickens him to see the tiny size and the condition of the deer that are brought out of there. He keeps swearing that he is not going to work up there any more. It would be a great unit if they managed it properly but allowing so many does and tiny bucks to be harvested is no way to maintain a healthy population. My advise is to hunt farther towards the coast or closer to the Pacific Crest Trail.
vail is everyone dirty little secret. everyone hunts it but noone says anything. lol
seriously though. ive hunted vail for 6 years now. ive seen a huge drop in the deer numbers in that little time.
but according to the charts at the check station this year. there are more 3x3's taken then 2pt's and almost twice as many spikes taken then 2pt's.
which to me says one thing. 2pt or better rule...what few spikes that make it through and become 2pt's get one year off from being killed but as soon as they make it to 3pts then it seems they are being taken.
so stop shooting the spikes (or save it for youth hunters) and you will get more 2pts also a better chance for those deer to pass on thier genes.
Post by: MAVsled on January 12, 2009, 08:33:40 PM
2 point minimum for those over the age of 18, fewer doe tags too!
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on January 13, 2009, 07:54:30 AM
I hunt outside vail in the Skookumchuck and need a new place to hunt cause it sucks here , any good advice?? :bash:
You never have trouble getting your buck :dunno:
If your serious, PM me, I know a couple spots I don't get to anymore since I moved up north.
Post by: bucklucky on January 13, 2009, 08:12:29 AM
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on January 13, 2009, 08:16:46 AM
Post by: Antlershed on January 13, 2009, 09:21:58 AM
:yeah:
2 point minimum for those over the age of 18, fewer doe tags too!
:tup: I think that would maybe reduce the number of people up there too, or maybe it would just cause people to shoot deer for their kids. :dunno:
Post by: TikkaT3-270Shortmag on January 13, 2009, 10:47:37 AM
Post by: bankwalker on January 13, 2009, 01:49:43 PM
:yeah:
2 point minimum for those over the age of 18, fewer doe tags too!
keep it youth only for doe tags, BUT make them put in for those tags.
also they can do what they use to do up in the snoqualmie tree farm in the 70' and 80's. just hand out doe tags to a couple trucks at the gates. keep it that way so only a select few can take a doe if they want to.
problem is that not everyone with a doe tag is gonna hunt the vail tree farm so limiting doe tags might get those people who hunt elsewhere in the unit all mad and butt hurt.
Post by: bankwalker on January 13, 2009, 01:55:46 PM
If you want to see lots of does and a ton of hunters its a great place. I havent found too many places in the vail tree farm where you can get away from people every where you go you will find somebody its a joke!! Dont get me wrong its a great place to take a younger kid to get his first buck, lots of little ones. Its like a rat race up there everyone driving roads to shoot a little spike. Bucklucky is absolutely right the harvest rates are high due to all the little bucks taken. I would recomenned to give it a try my guess is that you wont want to go back because all of the people, but theres only one way to find out so give it a shot. Maps can be found at Sunbirds and the outdoor sports shop in the Lewis County Mall.
there are actually more 3pts taken then 2pts, 4pts, 5pts combined in the tree farm.
it they put it to 2pt or better in the entire state then would start to see a better buck to doe ratio in a couple years. sure it may be spikes and 2pts...but alot more deer will escape the bullet and have a better chance with that one more year of hunter smarts to get away and make it to being a mature buck.
not to mention the 2pt or better law would thin out the crowds a little. and force people to get out and actually hunt for thier deer. dont get me wrong id much rather just drive down the road and take the easy way but thats not why i hunt.
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on January 13, 2009, 02:28:53 PM
I would like to see the tree farm 2 point or better, it has worked well in other nearby units.
Post by: Antlershed on January 13, 2009, 02:31:11 PM
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on January 13, 2009, 02:40:06 PM
They have graphs posted on the photo board at the check station which breaks down the harvest numbers for the last few years.I have not seen that, I would still be very, very skeptical more 3 points are harvested than 2 points, based on what I've seen in 10 years there. The average buck is nearly always a spike are forky, I have seen one 4 point, my own 3x4 and another three point. I have heard from the check station personnel of another dozen or so nicer bucks over the years, but if you look at the opening day reports in the Olympian, you rarely see a mature buck posted in any given year, perhaps one or two. At any rate a 2 point rule actually would protect more 3 points, it takes just that much more time to put that 3rd point on them before they are gone...
Post by: bankwalker on January 13, 2009, 03:04:54 PM
They have graphs posted on the photo board at the check station which breaks down the harvest numbers for the last few years.I have not seen that, I would still be very, very skeptical more 3 points are harvested than 2 points, based on what I've seen in 10 years there. The average buck is nearly always a spike are forky, I have seen one 4 point, my own 3x4 and another three point. I have heard from the check station personnel of another dozen or so nicer bucks over the years, but if you look at the opening day reports in the Olympian, you rarely see a mature buck posted in any given year, perhaps one or two. At any rate a 2 point rule actually would protect more 3 points, it takes just that much more time to put that 3rd point on them before they are gone...
almost all the guys i know who put their time in vail and get a big buck every year wait till after the check station closes down before they leave out for the night.
the day i braught out my 2pt there were 4 other 2pts and 2 3pts at the check station and that was at 1pm.
the day we braught my gf's 2pt out there was 1 3pt and 2 4pts at the check station.
this season i seen more 3pts and 2pts running around then i did spikes. and i seen 5 spikes all season and 7 button bucks.
now if people would let those spikes run free for a year that would be sweet. i specificly let them run free just for that reason.
my deer stats for the season in vail come from one little valley, with maybe 3 clear cuts throughout it. 4 second growth cuts and one 5 year old cut. with 2 sets of tall timber at either end of it. and a creek bottum running through it.
and the deer move ALL day though the 2nd growth. we watched a couple clearing all day long for one weekend and the deer were moving in and out of the 5 year old cut into the feeding areas and back. and then a couple hours later deer would be moving again. all day long it was like that both days.
and there were 8 or 9 deer taken out of that little area. only 1 was a spike.
Post by: uncoolperson on January 13, 2009, 03:05:50 PM
there are actually more 3pts taken then 2pts, 4pts, 5pts combined in the tree farm.
remember that "4-point" that was shot but the guy gave up lookinig for?
Post by: bankwalker on January 13, 2009, 03:08:22 PM
if you find a good area with alot of deer sign then hunt that area. even if there are 90 other people with you. there was at least 5 other people glassing the same areas i was hunting each day me and my gf took our deer.
the day my gf got her deer, there was 3 other deer taken. within 20 minutes and within 600yds of each other.
Post by: bankwalker on January 13, 2009, 03:08:54 PM
there are actually more 3pts taken then 2pts, 4pts, 5pts combined in the tree farm.
remember that "4-point" that was shot but the guy gave up lookinig for?
those guys got a 5pt and 2pts this season. and a doe.
Post by: Antlershed on January 13, 2009, 03:09:46 PM
almost all the guys i know who put their time in vail and get a big buck every year wait till after the check station closes down before they leave out for the night.My buck last year was never counted because they pack up the check station right at dark. Also, when they used to have two gates open, the deer going out the other side were never checked.
Post by: bankwalker on January 13, 2009, 03:13:40 PM
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on January 13, 2009, 03:14:33 PM
Post by: ABugg on January 13, 2009, 06:29:05 PM
Post by: Jeremy S on January 17, 2009, 10:14:14 AM
Post by: bucklucky on January 17, 2009, 10:20:26 AM
Post by: PolarBear on January 17, 2009, 05:06:24 PM
The loggers get to run around there in there vehicles and hunt during the week. Good luck.:yeah:
One of those loggers is a friend of mine and he gets a nice buck in there during archery season when it is closed to the public. He has offered numerous times to take me in with his key but I turn him down every time. He is a good guy but I don't hunt that way.
Post by: deerslyr on January 17, 2009, 05:18:09 PM
Post by: heavy hauler on January 17, 2009, 05:19:24 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on January 17, 2009, 05:33:49 PM
then for the "meat hunters" you could have a doe day like was done years ago. :twocents:
:bdid:
I couldn't even imagine the amount of bucks killed during the old "Doe day". I remember family friends killing monster bt bucks on the last day of doe day even though they never saw a horn. Brown it's down is not good for the herd quality.
Post by: heavy hauler on January 17, 2009, 05:41:17 PM
Post by: PolarBear on January 17, 2009, 05:44:02 PM
:yeah:then for the "meat hunters" you could have a doe day like was done years ago. :twocents:
:bdid:
I couldn't even imagine the amount of bucks killed during the old "Doe day". I remember family friends killing monster bt bucks on the last day of doe day even though they never saw a horn. Brown it's down is not good for the herd quality.
I knew too many folks who used "doe day" as an excuse to poach. :bdid:
Post by: billythekidrock on January 17, 2009, 05:49:33 PM
they didnt have antler restrictions back then.its not hard to tell the difference between a doe and a 3 point or better.
Antler restrictions only work on honest hunters. Just look to the Eastside. How many times do we hear about someone finding a big two point killed and left to rot because it didn't have a third point? There would still be lots of bucks (legal and non legal) killed if F&G goes back to a doe day.
Post by: heavy hauler on January 17, 2009, 05:52:19 PM
Post by: Jeremy S on January 17, 2009, 07:53:25 PM
Yah I know a guy who snuck up there during late archery and said he saw 2 of the biggest blacktails hes seen....then he got chased out by security.
So does that mean you can't scout it out in the off season? I'd be on a bicycle. I don't want to drive all that way if they will just kick me out. Does that also mean I can't ride a bike in when they lock the gates during the weekdays during the modern firearm season?
Post by: heavy hauler on January 17, 2009, 08:00:21 PM
Post by: Jeremy S on January 17, 2009, 08:06:45 PM
Post by: Bofire on January 17, 2009, 08:10:31 PM
Curious?
Carl
Post by: bucklucky on January 17, 2009, 09:27:51 PM
Biggest BT's I have ever EVER seen wre in Vail, BUT they were in an area that is never open. It is in the area of Vail that is the easiest to walk into tho.
Curious?
Carl
Sounds like good ole backyard bucks ;)
Post by: bucklucky on January 17, 2009, 09:28:27 PM
Yah I know a guy who snuck up there during late archery and said he saw 2 of the biggest blacktails hes seen....then he got chased out by security.
So does that mean you can't scout it out in the off season? I'd be on a bicycle. I don't want to drive all that way if they will just kick me out. Does that also mean I can't ride a bike in when they lock the gates during the weekdays during the modern firearm season?
Could have been in an active logging area too.?
Post by: deerslyr on January 18, 2009, 08:27:05 PM
Bofire, are you talking about an area that is never open to hunting or to vehicle traffic?
Post by: bucklucky on January 18, 2009, 08:31:14 PM
Post by: bankwalker on January 18, 2009, 08:37:40 PM