Hunting Washington Forum

Other Hunting => Coyote, Small Game, Varmints => Topic started by: atomicjoe23 on January 11, 2009, 09:23:35 AM

Title: Getting new predator rifle. . .which caliber--.204 Ruger vs. .243???
Post by: atomicjoe23 on January 11, 2009, 09:23:35 AM: I'm finally gonna get a dedicated predator rifle. . .will use it mainly for 'yotes, but also for bob's if the chance presents itself. . .right now the choice is between a Savage Model 10 Predator in brush camo or a Howa/Knoxx Axiom in prairie ghost camo. . .both are bolt action, both have 20" heavy barrels, both come with scopes, and both come fully camoflauged. . .and they are within about $100 of each other. . .

Now I have to figure out the caliber. . .I REALLY want a .243, but neither the Savage or the Howa come in .243 in a combo package with the scope with a 20" barrel, but they are available in combo in .204 Ruger, .223 Rem, and the Savage is also available in .22-250 in a combo package with the 20" barrel. . .the Howa is available in .243 and .22-250 in combo package with a 24" barrel though. . .

The Howa is a little heavier than the Savage. . .7.25 lbs for the Savage and 9.5 lbs for the Howa. . .both without scopes. . .

What I would REALLY like would be the Howa in .243 with the short 20" heavy barrel in the combo package. . .eeergh. . .very torn here!!!

I checked out the ballistics of the cartridges (40 gr. .204, 50 & 55 gr. .22-250, and 75 & 95 gr. .243 all in Accu-Tip Boat Tail) and as far as point of impact goes the .204 Ruger and the .243 are almost identical with the .204 actually having a little bit of an edge over the .204. . .the .243 retains a velocity much better and also retains energy much better as well. . .surprisingly (to me anyway) both the .204 and the .243 are WAY better calibers (ballistically speaking) than the venerable .22-250. . .

. . .I know that the .204 would probably be a lot easier on pelts. . .I happen to be a fan of the .243 and it's a little more versatile (in my opinion) than the .204. . .so go ahead and let me know what all of you think of the .204 and the .243. . .

Thanks!!!
Title: Re: Getting new predator rifle. . .which caliber--.204 Ruger vs. .243???
Post by: 270Shooter on January 11, 2009, 09:33:25 AM: .243 A lot more loads for it. And much better B.C. if you want to save pets with a .243 you just need to use premium big game bullets that don't expand very fast.
Title: Re: Getting new predator rifle. . .which caliber--.204 Ruger vs. .243???
Post by: luvtohnt on January 11, 2009, 09:52:47 AM: Keep in mind if you hallen to see a cougar you will need at least a .22 caliber centerfire, so with tha I would go with 22-250 or .223. 223 is much cheaper to shoot so that may be the best caliber.

Brandon
Title: Re: Getting new predator rifle. . .which caliber--.204 Ruger vs. .243???
Post by: demontang on January 11, 2009, 10:10:18 AM: The 22-250 has about the same ballistics as the 204 from what I have seen and you can shot a 40gr-95gr bullet out of one if you get the right twist barrel. With the 22-250 shooting a 50 nbt at 3890 it shoots flater and has more energy/speed all the way to 500+yd's. I have shot a .204 and I wouldnt own one myself, if I was going to get a 20cal gun it would be a tac20:twocents:

The 243 will be hard on pelts if you plan on keeping them I would go with a .223 or 22-250, if not I would get the 243.
Title: Re: Getting new predator rifle. . .which caliber--.204 Ruger vs. .243???
Post by: bobcat on January 11, 2009, 10:17:39 AM: That's quite a difference in weight between the two rifles...7 1/4 versus 9 1/2.

The heavier rifle might be a better option for long range shooting. The lighter rifle may be better for closer up shots. Just something to think about. I think you need to first decide what weight rifle would best suit your needs, because 2 1/4 pounds is a big difference. Also I wonder why are you set on the rifle/scope combo? Usually these package deals come with a cheaper scope and you may be better off buying a scope separately so that you can get a decent scope the first time, rather than having to replace the scope later.
Title: Re: Getting new predator rifle. . .which caliber--.204 Ruger vs. .243???
Post by: Big10gauge on January 11, 2009, 10:19:05 AM: You didn't say what your intended shooting ranges would be, if it's only out to 200yrds or so it really doesn't matter, a 223 would be just as good.The 204 has turned out to be a great shooter for me but alot of people cannot get the 40 grainers to shoot worth a darn. IMHO I'm surprised that you excluded the 22-250 as ballistically speaking all 3 of the calibers are almost identical in trajectory depending on what grain bullet you shooting, you would really just be comparing the energy factor. Also if you look at the difference of a 20" vs a 24" barrel you may want to rethink the 24" as the extra 4" is what makes these calibers really perform. The 22-250 and 243 can really use the extra 4" for burning the slower powders. One more advantage of the longer barrel is the extra steadiness it provides. Another thought is that you may want to look at the ballistics of a 55 or 65 gr out of the 243. I'm shooting 3819 fps with a 65 gr vmax. Another thing about "combo" packages is the scopes are usually medicore. Save your money for a good scope. Just my :twocents:
Title: Re: Getting new predator rifle. . .which caliber--.204 Ruger vs. .243???
Post by: dbllunger on January 11, 2009, 12:30:29 PM: Dedicated predator rifle in factory chambering....hmm...

7mm/25 STW, or 257Wby. Not joking at all.

Where I want to save pelts. 17Rem

Save pelts but don't want to have to buy a ton of new specialty cleaning gear. 223

Between the two you mentioned 243
Title: Re: Getting new predator rifle. . .which caliber--.204 Ruger vs. .243???
Post by: AWS on January 11, 2009, 12:39:57 PM: If you plan to do any walking with the rifle go with the Savage, a 9 1/2# rifle will be 11# plus all up with a scope big enough to take advantage of the heavy barrel. That will make you want to quit hiking early most days. If your looking at a walking rifle I'd look at a lite 2x7, 3x9, or 2.5x10 scope with a 40-42 objective lens to keep weight and bulk down.

If you don't plan on buying a cougar tag or use it for big game also, forget the 243. I have one too loud, and overly powerfull for coyotes and cats if you want to save hides. I have a 243 and it stays home most of the time there are too many better rigs.

I think your passing over one of the better all around predator rigs in the 22-250. 40gr NBT's for fur or 53gr TSX/64gr Power Points for large preds.

Never used a 204 but have my doubts on it for a long range coyote gun, great for PD's and fox and close in coyotes. I do have a 22H, 218Bee, 222Rem, 223Rem, 22-204, 22-250, 6mm-204, 243 Win, 25-204 and 250-3000 that I've killed preds with.

AWS
Title: Re: Getting new predator rifle. . .which caliber--.204 Ruger vs. .243???
Post by: tlbradford on January 11, 2009, 02:32:23 PM: With the list of guns that you have in your signature, I would go for the .243. I also second the fact that I would not buy the combo package. The tac20 is a better round than the .204 but you need to reload. The cool thing about the .204 is watching the animals crumple in your scope with a round that is going 3800fps. The recoil from a .22-250, .223, and higher knocks you off the target.
Title: Re: Getting new predator rifle. . .which caliber--.204 Ruger vs. .243???
Post by: catwithboost on January 11, 2009, 02:38:46 PM: I took my TC encore 204 for the first time today. As far as recoil I love it I can see the target get hit. Have not had a chance to shoot a animal with it but as far as target it is great. I read alot on other board and talked to alot of guys that us the 204 for coyote and bobcat out to 400yrds and take them down with little or zero run using 35gr rounds. The only bad part I have found about the round is not being able to shoot a cougar if you call one in. :'(
Title: .204 Ruger vs. .243
Post by: ivarhusa on January 11, 2009, 03:47:59 PM: I voted for the 204, buying one this year, figuring that it best complemented my other rifle, a 30-06. (I can hear your groans. "He only has two rifles." Oh, wait a minute. That was my groan.). If I go hunting for, say ,cougar :) I will take the '06.

I was attracted to the ballistic efficiency of the 204 cartridge. The 40gr 204 gets out there with a lot of speed, burning darn little powder in the process. Others have reported that this should help barrel life, which is attractive in a rifle one likes to shoot as much as I like to shoot this one. I think you will (OK, I will) shoot a lot more of the smaller cartridge. Less noise, less chance for ricochet. Nice.

I have a target shot from my rifle showing a 0.8" group at 100 yds, with a 40 gr Vmax load. I aspire to tighten this with handloading, but it certainly is "coyote accuracy".

Ivar
Title: Re: Getting new predator rifle. . .which caliber--.204 Ruger vs. .243???
Post by: jdb on January 11, 2009, 04:07:18 PM: if I were going to buy another dedicated predator rifle it would be a .17 fireball
Title: Re: Getting new predator rifle. . .which caliber--.204 Ruger vs. .243???
Post by: demontang on January 11, 2009, 06:54:36 PM: I like shooting the 40gr hornady rounds at 3800fps in my .223 which is only 100fps slower then the .204 :chuckle: I think the .223 is a great round for predator's and its cheap to shot. If you plan on shooting over 400yd much go with one of the other cals though. :twocents:
Title: Re: Getting new predator rifle. . .which caliber--.204 Ruger vs. .243???
Post by: atomicjoe23 on January 11, 2009, 09:57:11 PM: Getting off on the ground running is why I want to get a combo. . .I know the scopes may not be all that they could be, but if I have to buy a scope and a rifle separately I will have to wait TOO long to be able to use. . .I'm on an EXTREMELY limited budget at this point in time. . .and the difference in list price between just a rifle and the combo for the Savage and the Howa are $100. . .so the included scope will hold me over until I can save for a better one. . .but it is cost effective for me. . .I would rather get out and shoot than not be able to shoot while I am saving. . .that's just my circumstances though. . .different financial circumstances and I would buy the gun and scope separate. . .

. . .thanks for all the opinions. . .I'm still pretty torn. . .I think I'm gonna have to go with the .243 just because I can only afford one rifle for the foreseeable future and I would be able to do more with the .243 than the .204 Ruger, .22-250, or the .223. . .

Thanks again!!!
Title: Re: Getting new predator rifle. . .which caliber--.204 Ruger vs. .243???
Post by: bobcat on January 11, 2009, 10:02:57 PM: Nothing wrong with the 243 if that's what you want. Very versatile cartridge and lots of factory loads with different bullet types and weights available for it. You definitely can't go wrong if you get the 243. It will work for crows all the way up to elk with the right bullet. (not that I'd recommend it for elk, but it WOULD work)

As far as the scope, just look around and see if you can find a good deal on a little better scope, even if it's used. Maybe check ebay. Or for a new scope look at Burris Fullfield II's.
Title: Re: Getting new predator rifle. . .which caliber--.204 Ruger vs. .243???
Post by: Little John on January 12, 2009, 12:45:04 PM: Hey, I'm a .243 guy, I've got 2 of them. It started as my wifes deer gun, but I fell in love with it 4 yotes.
Ive got a Tikka T3 in .243 I'm hand loading a 55 gr balistic tip and its doing a little less then 3950 fps. That sounded unbelievable to me, but its doing pretty much the same speed as a 22-250, and I can still deer hunt with it if i want to change loads. I've got a 250$ bushnell on it and it shoots way better then I can shoot it. I got the gun second hand and only have 550$ into the set up. Its light and no recoil. Let me know if you want the reload recipe. Fun Fun.
Title: Re: Getting new predator rifle. . .which caliber--.204 Ruger vs. .243???
Post by: atomicjoe23 on January 12, 2009, 01:37:46 PM: Quote from: Little John on January 12, 2009, 12:45:04 PM
I'm hand loading a 55 gr balistic tip and its doing a little less then 3950 fps. That sounded unbelievable to me, but its doing pretty much the same speed as a 22-250. . .let me know if you want the reload recipe. Fun Fun.

I wouldn't mind the reload recipe. . .I don't currently handload, but it is something that I'm considering getting into. . .

I've pretty much decided it's gonna be the Savage Model 10 Predator in brush camo and .243 Winchester. . .it's got the 20" barrel I want (very important for where I live. . .can be VERY thick at times) and it's about 2.5 lbs. lighter than the Howa. . .I REALLY like the Howa but I think the Savage will be a more versatile rifle for me. . .I may eventually get the Howa in one of the smaller .20 or .22 calibers, but for now it's gonna be the Savage in .243!!!
Title: Re: Getting new predator rifle. . .which caliber--.204 Ruger vs. .243???
Post by: atomicjoe23 on January 12, 2009, 01:59:46 PM: My bad. . .the barrel is 22" not 20". . .not a big difference. . .hopefully I won't even notice it. . .
Title: Re: Getting new predator rifle. . .which caliber--.204 Ruger vs. .243???
Post by: atomicjoe23 on January 13, 2009, 12:15:54 PM: Went to buy a Savage Model 10 Predator in .243 today and Sportsman's didn't have one. . .only .204 and the .243 is discontinued in Sportsman's stores. . .still available from Savage just not through Sportsman's. . .doh. . .trying to call around and find one now. . .
Title: Re: Getting new predator rifle. . .which caliber--.204 Ruger vs. .243???
Post by: atomicjoe23 on January 13, 2009, 02:58:27 PM: I'm gonna end getting the .204 it looks like. . .nowhere locally that carries Savage regularly gets the .243. . .Sportsman's Warehouse won't ever get another Predator in .243. . .but they have a .204 in stock right now for just under $600. . .

Am I gonna be happy with the .204. . .more than likey. . .am I ever going to use it for anything other than 'yotes and bob's. . .probably not unless it's prairie dogs or crows. . .so I will probably be very happy with the .204. . .I just wanted something that had the possibility of being more flexible and that I could get bullets with higher BC's. . .but I would have to spend a LOT more to get what I want. . .and I'm not in the position to do so at the moment. . .

So the .204 it is!!!
Title: Re: Getting new predator rifle. . .which caliber--.204 Ruger vs. .243???
Post by: bobcat on January 13, 2009, 07:39:26 PM: Can't they order anything you want? If not, try Wal-Mart.
Title: Re: Getting new predator rifle. . .which caliber--.204 Ruger vs. .243???
Post by: atomicjoe23 on January 15, 2009, 02:43:05 PM: Ended up getting a Weatherby Vanguard Varmint in .22-250. . .it has a #3 contour heavy barrel, synthetic stock (tan with some design on it. . .not camo though). . .

Not too heavy for a heavy barrel. . .

. . .it was about $200 cheaper than the Savage

. . .it has the same stock as the attached picture but with a regular forend instead of the flat beavertail forend. . .
Title: Re: Getting new predator rifle. . .which caliber--.204 Ruger vs. .243???
Post by: ivarhusa on January 15, 2009, 02:46:57 PM: No varmint hunter ever regretted getting a 22-250.

Now you need to find some glass for it. Look for the gold ring...
Title: Re: Getting new predator rifle. . .which caliber--.204 Ruger vs. .243???
Post by: bowhunterforever on January 15, 2009, 02:51:37 PM: How much did you pay for the weatherby vanguard? Let me know how it shoots?
Title: Re: Getting new predator rifle. . .which caliber--.204 Ruger vs. .243???
Post by: 270Shooter on January 15, 2009, 02:53:56 PM: Awesome gun. A 22-250 is a great round.
Title: Re: Getting new predator rifle. . .which caliber--.204 Ruger vs. .243???
Post by: demontang on January 15, 2009, 03:14:59 PM: You will love that gun.

If you need a scope look at the bushnell legend they arent to expensive but they are very nice scopes. :twocents:
Title: Re: Getting new predator rifle. . .which caliber--.204 Ruger vs. .243???
Post by: atomicjoe23 on January 15, 2009, 09:40:22 PM: Quote from: bowhunterforever on January 15, 2009, 02:51:37 PM
How much did you pay for the weatherby vanguard? Let me know how it shoots?

Paid $429 for it. . .

. . .yep now I gotta get some good glass so I can start shooting it. . .