Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Archery Gear => Topic started by: Jolten on September 13, 2015, 06:38:48 PM

Title: Help design an arrow.
Post by: Jolten on September 13, 2015, 06:38:48 PM: New to this archery thing, but my arrows are driving me crazy. They group well but the length of them are nagging me. So any suggestions are appreciated.

My set up currently : Diamond Infinite Edge Pro set at 27" draw and a draw weight of 60lbs. Arrows are currently at 29.5in from center of nock to end of insert.

Anyone have any suggestions?
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: hughjorgan on September 13, 2015, 07:06:13 PM: Why do you have them cut as long as you do? Most guys in my experience are +\- 1/2 inch of their draw length for their arrow and that usually meets the parameters of the spine chart for brand of arrow. I usually cut mine to be even with the riser, for the reason if they are cut shorter and that arrow with broad head were to pop off my rest it would be on my hand which I don't like. I have actually had it happen in a non hunting situation and it is not a fun experience.
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: Jolten on September 13, 2015, 07:18:09 PM: I bought the bow at cabelas. ( I know bad idea). The guy who set me up there I don't think knew exactly what he was doing. As he just guestimated everything. I knew my draw length and he said I needed +2 inches. As soon as I shot the first arrow it kinda itched at me that something isn't right. I was thinking 27in arrows would be ideal
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: hughjorgan on September 13, 2015, 08:32:22 PM: What arrows are you shooting. Only way to know if you can go shorter is by looking at the arrow spine chart. Hopefully the insert doesn't get in the way if you can have them cut again, like eastons H.I.T inserts can.
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: hogslayer on September 13, 2015, 08:48:34 PM: Are you wanting input for specific brands and spine selection? I have a program called archers advantage. It is pretty handy in selecting the proper arrow for your bow set up. If you are really wanting to do it right, you would figure out what your Front of Center would be before you just go with an arrow with a 100 grain tip. I ended up getting Black Eagle Rampage arrows with a 56 grain insert and a 100 grain head. It put me at 12% FOC and a 512 grain arrow. They are 31.5 inches long, I have a 32" draw length.
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: Jolten on September 13, 2015, 09:01:26 PM: Blank canvas. I'd like 27in lengths. Not a fan of lumenocks. Would prefer carbon over fiber glass or aluminum.
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: 270Shooter on September 13, 2015, 09:42:35 PM: 27 inch gold tip kinetics. 400 spine.
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: hughjorgan on September 13, 2015, 10:39:52 PM: Easton arrows have never let me down. Axis arrows with their smaller diameter will penetrate better and be less effected by cross wind. Their tolerances on weight have always been with in spec and they shoot straight. A .400 spined arrow is most likely going to be what you need, but you should consult a spine chart to make sure that is the correct selection.
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: Jolten on September 14, 2015, 03:11:53 PM: Would I need to worry about gpi any?
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: demontang on September 14, 2015, 06:12:22 PM: Yes gpi is a huge thing to get your arrows to legal weight unless you add brass inserts or gold tip fact weights. Your arrows should be close to your draw length unless you need them to stick out of your riser for say turkey heads. If you need any help let me know I can get you set up and going and ill have a press and arrow cutter soon to start cutting arrows and tuning. I personal like certain arrows but it comes from shooting a lot and knowing what works. Radsav can chim in and help a lot too.
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: hughjorgan on September 14, 2015, 06:22:14 PM: Quote from: Jolten on September 14, 2015, 03:11:53 PM
Would I need to worry about gpi any?

Gold tips tend to be light arrows and you may have to add weight to make them legal. Easton I have never had a problem with Making legal weight. I am not sure about carbon express, victory or other arrow manufacturers.
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: Jolten on September 14, 2015, 07:01:17 PM: How would one add weigh? Wraps inserts?
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: Jolten on September 14, 2015, 07:03:01 PM: Quote from: demontang on September 14, 2015, 06:12:22 PM
Yes gpi is a huge thing to get your arrows to legal weight unless you add brass inserts or gold tip fact weights. Your arrows should be close to your draw length unless you need them to stick out of your riser for say turkey heads. If you need any help let me know I can get you set up and going and ill have a press and arrow cutter soon to start cutting arrows and tuning. I personal like certain arrows but it comes from shooting a lot and knowing what works. Radsav can chim in and help a lot too.

I may take you up on that.
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: hughjorgan on September 14, 2015, 07:11:35 PM: Quote from: Jolten on September 14, 2015, 07:01:17 PM
How would one add weigh? Wraps inserts?

Heavier weight in field point/broad head, brass inserts, wraps, weight tubes, wraps...
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: demontang on September 14, 2015, 07:12:58 PM: Let me know I've helped a lot of people. I'm not the greatest out there but I'm sure I can help.
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: Jolten on September 14, 2015, 07:23:33 PM: OK what's the ideal FOC?
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: demontang on September 15, 2015, 10:57:52 AM: For broad heads 13-15% has worked the best form what I've seen.
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: Jolten on September 16, 2015, 08:29:24 PM: OK so say I want a 27in carbon 9.3gpi 340 spine with 100gr savora broadhead. Straight vaned. Non wrapped 3 3" fletchings. Standard nocks. Would I meet the 13-15%FOC and be legal?
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: biggfish on September 17, 2015, 12:34:55 AM: Quote from: Jolten on September 16, 2015, 08:29:24 PM
OK so say I want a 27in carbon 9.3gpi 340 spine with 100gr savora broadhead. Straight vaned. Non wrapped 3 3" fletchings. Standard nocks. Would I meet the 13-15%FOC and be legal?
You would weight legal at 402.2 grains using easton cb inserts and diamonds vanes as reference foc would be 11.33% you need about 25 grains more up front and you'll hit 13.33% cb inserts weigh 21 grains.
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: demontang on September 17, 2015, 08:05:10 AM: I came up with a 393 grn arrow using blazers. Foc is still to low. If you run gold tip 340 hunters plus the fact insert weight you'll hit 14%
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: Jolten on September 18, 2015, 03:37:11 PM: Are inserts available at different weights?
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: demontang on September 18, 2015, 03:55:20 PM: You can find brass inserts and goldtip makes weights that screw in the back of inserts to adjust foc.
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: Greg Mullins on October 10, 2015, 10:37:07 PM: 27 in 400 spine Full Metal Jackets 100 Shuttle T. Perfect
..
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: SGTDuffman on October 14, 2015, 08:26:56 PM: I can plug all your stuff into my calculator, but I need to know basically everything you can tell me about your setup. I've got your bow weight, draw length, and poundage. Need the weight of stuff on the strings (peep, silencers, d-loop, etc. If you don't know, just guess 20 grains), point weight, if you're using wraps or not, if so the weight of those, then which arrows, inserts, and nocks you're using.

Just guessing at a standard point weight of 100gr, insert weight of around 15gr, nock of around 9gr, and 3 blazers with no wraps, 20 grains on your strings, and a 28" arrow, you'd need to be around .430 for spine. Which you shouldn't have any trouble hitting with a TON of arrows on the market.
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: huntingbaldguy on October 15, 2015, 01:13:21 AM: I'm a 27" draw and run Easton Bloodline 400 spine cut to 27". I use standard insert and 125 grain broad heads. Total weight is 413 grains with a 14% foc. They fly well, but the spine is on the top end for the draw weight at 67 lbs. My broad heads hit with my field points though, so i'm not worried. I've put a lot of miles on them this year and only broken 1 when i hit my garage. Didn't even break one when i hit a 1x4 and blew through it with a broad head.
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: Jolten on November 22, 2015, 05:47:47 PM: Anymore suggestions? Xmas is coming hehe
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: RadSav on November 23, 2015, 04:08:45 PM: Quote from: Jolten on September 16, 2015, 08:29:24 PM
OK so say I want a 27in carbon 9.3gpi 340 spine with 100gr savora broadhead. Straight vaned. Non wrapped 3 3" fletchings. Standard nocks. Would I meet the 13-15%FOC and be legal?

What do you mean by "Straight vaned"?
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: Jolten on November 23, 2015, 04:23:51 PM: Non offset / helical set (really hope I used the right terms) so they run straight edge from nock to point. | vs / if that makes sense.
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: Mxracer532 on November 23, 2015, 04:42:20 PM: Quote from: Jolten on November 23, 2015, 04:23:51 PM
Non offset / helical set (really hope I used the right terms) so they run straight edge from nock to point. | vs / if that makes sense.

Why exactly do you not want helical? :dunno:
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: Jolten on November 23, 2015, 04:44:59 PM: I've heard if your using a capture style rest it can cause issues, and trying to keep it as simple as possible. I'm a big noobie when it comes to all this arrow stuff.
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: Mxracer532 on November 23, 2015, 04:48:08 PM: Quote from: Jolten on November 23, 2015, 04:44:59 PM
I've heard if your using a capture style rest it can cause issues, and trying to keep it as simple as possible. I'm a big noobie when it comes to all this arrow stuff.

I have shot helical on everything! Just buy a good rest right off the bat and dont worry about helical. (helical is the best way to fletch by the way). I run a trophy taker smackdown pro, have used Limbdrivers as well and like them also.
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: Jolten on November 23, 2015, 04:55:43 PM: This is the style that came with my bow. I don't plan on doing many upgrades until I'm a lot better then I currently am.
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: huntingbaldguy on November 23, 2015, 11:46:30 PM: I don't see why that would cause issues if a whisker biscuit doesn't for a lot of people.
Title: Re: Help design an arrow.
Post by: RadSav on November 24, 2015, 01:36:27 AM: Quote from: huntingbaldguy on November 23, 2015, 11:46:30 PM
I don't see why that would cause issues if a whisker biscuit doesn't for a lot of people.

Biscuit and the Hostage may look similar, but there are huge differences. Biscuit design calls for all vanes hitting soft even resistance as they pass through. Hostage is expected to hit nothing and the bristles are anything but soft. The Economy Hostage pictured will have troubles if contact is on the wrong spot of the vane. But...Unless the arrow is super small diameter or the helical in darn near spiral flu flu you shouldn't have a problem making the Hostage work with a nice offset fletch.